Last reread I wanted done today is TWM.
Starts off with usual newbie-ish stuff. Though I think this is a bit artificial:
So what are the most important things I should know coming into playing a game as a new player? Is it more important to make sure everyone else knows I am a town player or is it to try and find out who are the mafia players?
While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful. Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.
I feel like gkrieg is really defending himself here over something somewhat minor. I mean, the two people he is defending himself against aren't even voting for him.
This I'd say is bad because yes you want to defend yourself as town. But I'm willing to put it under "newbie read".
I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.
Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.
That's why it is scummy this game.
Yes. Doing something just because you have done it before and are trying to replicate it is worthy of a vote.
Vote: roadrunner
Generic read.
He goes after Joseph for a while; I cannot really fault him for that.
I don't think WW is playing!
I guess that means that gk and idontplay both haven't actually voted yet this game. Does that mean anything?
I don't like this question. It's very hedgy and at the same time it is playing the newbie card.
I have counted multiple veterans read Joseph as a strong town (RR, gkrieg, IDPTG, EFHW, faust, Calamitas). And while I don't understand that or agree with them it does encompass half of the players in the game and certainly includes a significant number of town players.
So while I disagree, I suppose I need to concede both that we aren't going to be able to get a lynch on him without movement from that group (unlikely, I think given they were all fairly adamant about their town read on him) and that I might just be reading Joseph wrong given that I haven't played with him before.
unvote
I still think his actions look like something that mafia might do and if those above change their minds I would likely go back to voting him. Further, if I am wrong and Joseph is town I would encourage him to avoid doing such things to make a significant number of people think you are mafia in the future.
This is overall a more genuine-sounding newbie post.
Why aren't we lynching Joseph already? He clearly wants to mislynch people.
Mislynch is bad.
But no lynch is worse.
Also, Vote: clus
You are just being annoying. Many individuals have asked you repeatedly to stop. Can you please recognize that your actions are frustrating to others trying to play this game.
The frustration seems real, and town is more likely to be frustrated here.
So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.
I think the flip-flopping TWM does here is not that easy to do as scum. On the other hand, given Joseph's annoyingness, scum!TWM might have seen an opening to still get that lynch here.
There is some setup analysis going on about whether someone should counterclaim afterwards... which, fine. But really TWM is very focused on Joseph up until here and hasn't given many other reads, which is probematic. He continues down walking a very thin line about whether or not Joseph should be lynched without counterclaim. Which of course is something scum wants, but wouldn't push. He looks like trying to find a townie that he can blame for getting Joseph lynched, not willing to take responsibility himself.
How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa
From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.
And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.
Why Robz?
It was revealed that Robz had pushed for and achieved a lynch on a claimed PR Day1 previously as mafia in M88.
Don't like this read. It is sheeping disguised as your own thoughts, and it's not even a good case.
And this is Robz's one post between that time and when faust started to vote for him and sent the Robz wagon snowballing (at that point Robz does point at Awaclus, but only after heavy voting). I had thought if the consensus had been more apparent this would have been the time that Robz should have called for Awaclus to claim if he felt that Awaclus was the UB. But he didn't, but I am not sure if that is because Robz didn't feel that way or if because he didn't want to.
Robz is at L-1, has explained his reasoning, and TWM is trying to softly push for his lynch. I don't like this.
vote: EFHW using faust's previously stated suspicion to vote for gkrieg on an overstated point.
I feel like you still don't get my point. I'm not saying he isn't paying attention. I'm saying he is projecting a disengaged attitude in an attempt to seem like town. I can also see a a very plausible scum narrative for his case against Robz.
No I get your point. I am saying that there is exactly one example of this so-called projection. There aren't multiple, or a bunch. Just one. So I think you are exaggerating something to piggyback off faust's suspicion.
I'm not sure I agree, but this way of thinking indicates a town perspective.
I think my three would be:
EFHW, calamitas and probably mcmc
I would put robz into that mix as I still think he is potentially mafia, but concede he is unlikely to be lynched at this juncture.
So this has 2 confirmed townies in it, and is definitely not that great on the spectrum of possible lynch pools.
TWM then goes over his suspcion of RR. Which he also had previousl. I am kinda confused why RR didn't show up on TWM's would lynchs. Maybe to get a partner in there?
He also tries to push for a Calamitas lynch for a bit. Then he moved to Robz relatively early as far as pre-deadline switches go and there isn't much more from him. He doesn't really push the lynch, but quietly moves along.
I know it's odd, but both things are true: he deserves to live another day because he's putting in effort, but I also think he's scum. I mean, if we had more time left I might try to build that case, but it's not happening so it doesn't really matter for right now.
EFHW just seems very in line with the last few games I've played with her.
If you die, you should make it anyway, at least a summary, and PM it to yourself to post later. I would like to read it after the game
ash pointed this out as scummy; I agree. A townie isn't very concerned about why he's being OMGUS'd.
Vote Count 1.11
Robz888 (4): The_Wine_Merchant, ashersky, gkrieg13, Awaclus
Awaclus (4): Joseph2302, JaketheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888
gkrieg13 (2): EFHW, faust
faust (1): mcmcsalot
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time. This is in 30 minutes.
In going back and reviewing I feel like this is a fairly important moment. Especially if, as faust says, mafia wouldn't have really cared about trying to lynch a claimed VT. Because there was a claimed PR. If mafia wanted to try and lynch a claimed PR (unless Awaclus is mafia in which, they would have obviously tried to avoid it which bears worth looking at), wouldn't they have tried to go down that road?
This continues a certain trend I see in TWM's posts of picking up something someone else said that is useful for him and spinning it further. Which cleverly makes it seem as though you are not the one pushing that argument. Same with the following post:
Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).
I forgot about that.
His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.
Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.
Well your point about RR is pretty good as well. I went back and checked and he didn't have a real vote on anyone all game. He had a couple that were really early on Jake. When I noticed his odd interactions with Jake I checked to see if he had been voting, but I guess those early votes lead me to believe he was voting more often.
I think I might go look at other RR games as town/mafia and see if there is a correlation as this seems potentially significant.
I really don't like going after Jake/RR here (especially both). This is too easy.
I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.
Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town. I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.
If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.
Here's an extreme willingness to accept my input on Awaclus. Which is scummy.
Jake's wagon right now is the biggest, but annoyingly I think it might have hit its peak in terms of growth for some odd reason. Given that I think there is a good to decent chance they are in fact scummates, I'll put my vote behind a RoadRunner lynch. I don't agree with everything faust lists here, but there is enough--a lot that I already pointed out--that makes RoadRunner look like potential mafia even with the Jake tie-ins excluded.
Jake would you be willing to vote for RoadRunner? What do you think of faust's points?
vote: RoadRunner
Scummy overexplaining of why he leaves the guy he tunneled. Additionally, if RR turns out to be scum, he already sets Jake up as his partner.
So there is some towny stuff in here, but overall I feel that all his play helps scum. There is also lots of tunneling going on while he basically never posts reads on other players; I don't know his reads on gkrieg, me, Awaclus etc.
PPE: 10
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Topic: M91: trouble in the Scouncil (schadnd mafia) (g@me over) (Read 207967 times)