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[faust]

I would still like to lynch gkrieg, but part of me also wants to lynch off the Robz wagon, which means either mcmc or RR. RR might be worth rereading at some point as well.

Why do you still think I'm scum?

Why would I have stopped thinking it?

Well looking at how the wagons went down yesterday, I think I come out of it townier.  Plus, you have a long history of tunneling me when I'm town and getting us both killed.

I don't really see how you come out townier when I tried to convince people to switch to you towards the end of the day and nobody wanted to do that.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Jake made a case against someone (Robz?).

I forgot about that.

His case, http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16687.msg667320#msg667320, makes me trust his supposed anger even less, when initially he was a big part of the wagon and lynch even if he wasn't actually on it at the end.

Jake is being the guy that is mad when he rear ends someone after tailgating too closely, to use another roadrage reference.

People can change their minds, especially on D1. I don't see how this is a point against Jake.

What it means is that he is at least partially culpable. Which means that the anger at everyone else just isn't as authentic as it should be mellowed by a sense of shared responsibility. it means the emotion in his opening statement at the start of day is even more likely to be fake.

I am afraid I have to burst your bubble... human emotions aren't typically as rational as you make them out to be.

You don't have to tell me that. But do you really think jake was hop-stomping mad about a lynch that: 1. he initially wanted and pushed strongly for 2. Had occurred two real days prior and 3. wasn't all that bad of a lynch as he freely admitted after I called him on his fake emotion?

I feel like he wanted people to think he was really upset by the lynch. Why? Because he felt was partly responsible and felt that he needed to distance himself from it preemptively. Town, I think, doesn't see the need to create distance between the lynch and themselves. Town just want to move on and find the next person who is likely mafia.

I'm done fighting with you because I actually want to find scum and not be in fights but @faust why is Big G scummy

[faust]

I'm done fighting with you because I actually want to find scum and not be in fights but @faust why is Big G scummy

Now let's take a look at gkrieg.

There is some fluff in the beginning. I forgot this:

While I agree with you, RVS isn't something super duper awful.  Like trying to get out of it too quickly can cause mislynches as well.

It's not alignment-indicative, but I really don't get it.

He townreads Joseph. Well someone (mcmc?) said defending Joseph there is kind of scummy and I agree.

I would say RR voting for Jake is slightly scummy though.

Every game I've ever played with Jake, I think I've voted for him. And that must've been D1 or D2.

That's why it is scummy this game.

This is also a bit of a clichéd reasoning.

He's also interacting with Jake a fair bit, coaching and such, which is a cheap way of getting activity up.

vote: faust

Interesting. Don't remember if this was explained, but I guess I'll see.

Jumping on the Robz wagon is kind of scummy, but then I think scum!gkrieg might shy away from being like 4th or 5th on a wagon because that are dangerous places to be in. I don't recall how gkrieg plays scum right now, so I can't really tell.

Before people voted for Robz, I put a line in my QT saying that this confirms Robz to be scum.  I honestly think he is acting the same as he did when we lynched Jake as the vanilla cop.

This is so... I would be interested in why gkrieg felt the need to share that information. And thinking scum!Robz would repeat such an obvious pattern after only 2 or 3 games? I'm not sure I buy that gkrieg would think that. Plus it ignores the new information Robz shared. So all in all, pretty scummy post.

Adding space -- vote: gkrieg.

Honestly I was just waiting for other games to go into night. Now I'll spend more time on this one.

I joked about this before, but I really think that the "honestly" can be a subconscious scumtell. Like scum!gkrieg thinking "now I can post something that is actually true!"

I think when I'm very involved in a game it is much easier to read me though.

I don't like this bit very much because it sounds like trying to get a D1 pass through the promise of more activity in the future.

Here is another post that I'd like to look at in more detail:

I rarely write in my personal QTs.  I was just making a note that Robz was acting the same way he did in M89 and that I thought he was scum.

Notably, gkrieg's language already softened down here; earlier he said this "confirmed" Robz as scum.

I don't think that Awaclus really looked like he was claiming to be UB, and I was surprised that Robz kept pushing Joseph after the claim.

This is a nice little rhethoric trick. I also did not think Awaclus looked like claiming UB. But that doesn't really matter, does it? The question is, is it conceivable that Robz thought so? And that is very much the case I believe.

It also comes from a scum mindset to have someone not be counterclaimed, and still push them toward a lynch.  Especially when it is the universal backup, which isn't super useful in this game.

This is also a sort of cliché read.

I do however think that this top 3 stuff is not really all that helpful.  It gives scum a lot of information, and it is also easy for them to hide their partners.  I think more than anything, it just wasn't thoroughly thought through.

I don't really get why people would think Jake's proposal is so problematic. It gets people to state some reads, which is generally a good thing. BUt I guess this is not alignment-indicative.

So there is lots of stuff I don't like. The only thing that worries me a bit is that I did not find a towny-sounding post. That's usually a sign of confirmation bias. So I'd like other people to weigh in on this.

[faust]

Plus I think the way the D1 lynch went down makes more sense if he's scum because nobody wanted to lynch him anymore.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Plus I think the way the D1 lynch went down makes more sense if he's scum because nobody wanted to lynch him anymore.

The same could be said about awa and I feel as there's way more scum evidence on awa than Big G

[faust]

Plus I think the way the D1 lynch went down makes more sense if he's scum because nobody wanted to lynch him anymore.

The same could be said about awa and I feel as there's way more scum evidence on awa than Big G

There is stuff about Awaclus that makes me not want to lynch him. I will become clear later on.

[gkrieg13]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I'm done fighting with you because I actually want to find scum and not be in fights but @faust why is Big G scummy

We aren't fighting. I am holding you accountable for what you said and finding you scummy for it and voting you for it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

[EFHW]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

Know?  Do you know Awaclus is town?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

Know?  Do you know Awaclus is town?

I think it is pretty easy to understand what gkrieg is saying here. And he isn't saying that.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

In fact I just did the exact same thing:

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Taking faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and extrapolating it without saying so specifically.

[EFHW]

In fact I just did the exact same thing:

I see, so you think that I was a scum wagon, and that Awaclus and Robz were town wagons.

Well, based on what you are saying, I know that all three wagons were on town.  I'll go back and do a little wagon analyisis then.

If you are town then all 4 major wagons from yesterday were on town. That would imply either town was majorly off or mafia had a major hand in directing the wagons. Or you are mafia and only 3 of 4 major wagons were on town, but I am still hesitant to think that given how similar you and I seem to be thinking.

Taking faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and extrapolating it without saying so specifically.

What you did isn't the same at all.  You said "If  .... then... would imply ... or". He said know. I think he was trying imply that he is town and could take that into account, but then slipped and included Awaclus in his knowing.

[EFHW]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

[gkrieg13]

I'm just taking faust at his word for now. 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

[Joseph2302]

I'll try to dedicate time to reread this tomorrow.

[mcmcsalot]

Helooooo? Drunk AMA till I fall asleep.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.2

faust (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
JaketheBaseballGod22 (2): EFHW, The_Wine_Merchant
The_Wine_Merchant (1): JaketheBaseballGod22
mcmcsalot (1): faust

Not voting (4): Awaclus, Joseph2302, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Jan. 16th at 12pm forum time

[EFHW]

vote: gkrieg

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

Do you know what happens when you assume?

[Awaclus]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I'm not voting? Vote: Jake

Why?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

Do you know what happens when you assume?

No. What happens?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Oh wait, you were responding to gkrieg.  I thought you were responding to faust.  So why are you so confident Awaclus is town?

That is exactly what I meant and I already told you this:

I took faust's assumption about Awaclus, whether I agree with it or not, and then extrapolated it as an assumption without stating specifically that I had, when it should be pretty obvious that is what I meant. It is all just wording.

Do you know what happens when you assume?

No. What happens?

You make a "butt" (first three letters) out of u and me. Assume