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[mcmcsalot]

I need to get to a computer to really do some rereads of the people left and more wagon analysis.

Interesting that spaceanemone is the only living member of silverspawns wagon left and eevee was the only scum on it.

[mcmcsalot]

Jreggie's lynch is similar but robz and witherweaver are the living members, and I had stated intent to vote many times.

[Witherweaver]

I think it's really unlikely that there aren't partners on the Eevee wagon.

Eevee was going down yesterday no matter what. Doesn't matter if partners voted or not. 100% of the players were going to vote for Eevee.

But that's not even what I suspect about your post.

Eventually,  yes, but scum knows this and wants to be on the wagon.  Otherwise they risk looking like they're defending their partner.

[Robz888]

I think it's really unlikely that there aren't partners on the Eevee wagon.

Eevee was going down yesterday no matter what. Doesn't matter if partners voted or not. 100% of the players were going to vote for Eevee.

But that's not even what I suspect about your post.

I don't think that really applies in a case of overwhelming guilt like we had with Eevee.
Eventually,  yes, but scum knows this and wants to be on the wagon.  Otherwise they risk looking like they're defending their partner.

[Robz888]

I think it's really unlikely that there aren't partners on the Eevee wagon.

Eevee was going down yesterday no matter what. Doesn't matter if partners voted or not. 100% of the players were going to vote for Eevee.

But that's not even what I suspect about your post.

Eventually,  yes, but scum knows this and wants to be on the wagon.  Otherwise they risk looking like they're defending their partner.

Quoting fixed...

I don't think that really applies in a case of overwhelming guilt like we had with Eevee.

[Witherweaver]

I feel like it does.

[Witherweaver]

I guess this is the Robz vig post:

I think you are not taking into account the snowballing effect of information - it's a very different looking game if people get away with lynching someone who they don't necessarily think is the scummiest for a reason like this.

But if we are going to lynch him at some point of the game anyways that doesn't matter I think. One lynch is going to be taken up by teamlyle and it's best if thar's the day with the least info to work with.

You know, I always tell Vigs not to shoot, but if we do have a Vig (a major if, of course), shooting teamlyle seems like a not-terrible plan.

[mcmcsalot]

I guess this is the Robz vig post:

I think you are not taking into account the snowballing effect of information - it's a very different looking game if people get away with lynching someone who they don't necessarily think is the scummiest for a reason like this.

But if we are going to lynch him at some point of the game anyways that doesn't matter I think. One lynch is going to be taken up by teamlyle and it's best if thar's the day with the least info to work with.

You know, I always tell Vigs not to shoot, but if we do have a Vig (a major if, of course), shooting teamlyle seems like a not-terrible plan.

Yep that's the one. I'm curious if this is the post spaceanemone referred to when they said robz was town and when asked why they said a post of robz that they didn't want to point out.

[SpaceAnemone]

I need to get to a computer to really do some rereads of the people left and more wagon analysis.

Interesting that spaceanemone is the only living member of silverspawns wagon left and eevee was the only scum on it.

Huh.. suddenly LL being the target makes sense! It makes it easy to push a lynch on me because there really was only one scum on silver's wagon.

From my point of view, this is lots of scum points for mcmc. I would vote, but I have to be away for the next ~4 hours, and I don't have the spare brain/time to think about the risks involved just now. Sorry :-(

[Witherweaver]

McMc reread:

First post is a vote of Eevee, not RVS:

I don't think it's super likely for scum!ww to decides o put himself out there so early for no reason.

Also I agree eevee's statement about no claiming is worrying. Unlike ww's claim, scum!eeve benefits from seeming like he's helping town whilst killing potential discussions that get the game started.

vote: eevee

Starting out suspecting partners at the beginning of the game makes sense.

There's the reaction to my thing, did not think I was joking and I guess thought people should lynch me:

Scum shaming just about everyone not voting witherweaver at this point.

Seems okay once I clarify and goes back to eevee:

I mean, I was never claiming PGO, which should have been very clear.

Good a comment finally. Now vote:eevee

though he never actually changed his vote on Eevee before.

Some back and forths with Eevee follow, explains his reason (reply 248), seems reasonable.  Reacts to a post J Reggie makes by saying Reggie is scummy, also:

So I looked at people's current votes and I am curious specifically at spaceanemone and teamlyle, both of your votes for me came a long long time ago, spaceanemone I believe is voting for me based on complete rvs. This isn't super concerning but I'm not the biggest fan with of an L-2 wagon being built with

So I looked at people's current votes and I am curious specifically at spaceanemone and teamlyle, both of your votes for me came a long long time ago, spaceanemone I believe is voting for me based on complete rvs. This isn't super concerning but I'm not the biggest fan with of an L-2 wagon being built with

With such old votes on it. Again not crazy concerning but I would love for them to explain their votes or change them.

Presses Calam and Space a little more in what follows.  These were the things that made me think McMc was townier, I think.  He was also a primary actor through most of Day 1, I think.  Also had an early wagon up to L-2.

Analyzes Teamlyle wagon some, concludes:

All in this wagon was much less serious than I thought on first read. Other than paco's original analysis, not much else was said content wise. Which would make sense why teamlyle hasn't defended himself well however I maintain that claim was terrible to make at that point of pressure. The thread then being whipped into a flurry and the rest of pacos analysis being completely ignored is all pretty scummy though hard to tell who I'm directing those feelings at.

Perhaps the early claim was intentional because teamlyle didn't think he had any better defense so just shoot for the fences as soon as you get votes?

A bit later, votes Teamlyle:

no, if teamlyle doesn't cooperate, it's just like any other town(?) lynch.

This is really strange post. For what reason Teamlyle won't cooperate? You presume, he won't be reading the thread?

Go back and read his posts.

I did and vote:teamlyle I don't believe his reasoning for claiming under such little pressure. He hasn't continued defending himself as I expect town. Also his statement about not having good reads and wanting us to help him get better to better use his power is silly. It's a defense that pulls at the emotional empathetic reasons not to lynch and not the logical or factual reasons, and I maintain that town should be better than that.

I don't really like the teamlyle vote.  I don't see why scum claims there under so little pressure, either.

And he's gone (was VLA) for most of the end of Day 1.  Reaction to lynch:

So I just caught up. On my honeymoon in the Caribbean but I have internet access on one phone so I plan on reading along and posting still. I hate the silver spawn lynch. I'm still not convinced I even believe teamlyles claim and I still think eevee is scummy from the beginning, and oh look eevee started the silver wagon and teamlyle is on it. the deadline looming talk was crazy, I think there was a lot more time when it was first brought up as a problem.

Jreggies vote is super scummy but in such an obvious way in not sure I get it. Like why oh why not wait for Faust to clarify and potentially let silver claim.

 His supicion of Eevee does go away as the day goes on, though he leaves his vote on Eevee for an awful long time, really almost the entire day.  I'll continue on to D2 later on.

[Witherweaver]

I need to get to a computer to really do some rereads of the people left and more wagon analysis.

Interesting that spaceanemone is the only living member of silverspawns wagon left and eevee was the only scum on it.

Huh.. suddenly LL being the target makes sense! It makes it easy to push a lynch on me because there really was only one scum on silver's wagon.

From my point of view, this is lots of scum points for mcmc. I would vote, but I have to be away for the next ~4 hours, and I don't have the spare brain/time to think about the risks involved just now. Sorry :-(

No votes!  Much risk, many danger, so wow.

[mcmcsalot]

I need to get to a computer to really do some rereads of the people left and more wagon analysis.

Interesting that spaceanemone is the only living member of silverspawns wagon left and eevee was the only scum on it.

Huh.. suddenly LL being the target makes sense! It makes it easy to push a lynch on me because there really was only one scum on silver's wagon.

From my point of view, this is lots of scum points for mcmc. I would vote, but I have to be away for the next ~4 hours, and I don't have the spare brain/time to think about the risks involved just now. Sorry :-(

No votes!  Much risk, many danger, so wow.

Yea weird comment about wanting to vote and kinda OMGUS for me just doing some wagon analysis and completely ignoring my question about their comment on thinking robz is town early on because of a single post.

[Calamitas]

I think scum has taken out LaLight due to thinking he was the vig. I for one had him and robz down in my book as most likely candidates.
Anyways, I will reread probably tomorrow.

[Robz888]

So we actually should lynch today, because it will be the same as lynching tomorrow, I'll just be dead. And I can't do anything at night tonight if we No Lynch, I'll just be roleblocked. But if we somehow lynch the roleblocker today, I have the option to shoot tonight again.

Thus I'm thinking we should massclaim... it's possible we narrow the decision down even further. Right?

[Robz888]

I will direct the massclaim.

My order: WW, mcmc, Space, Calamitas

[Calamitas]

So we actually should lynch today, because it will be the same as lynching tomorrow, I'll just be dead. And I can't do anything at night tonight if we No Lynch, I'll just be roleblocked. But if we somehow lynch the roleblocker today, I have the option to shoot tonight again.

Thus I'm thinking we should massclaim... it's possible we narrow the decision down even further. Right?

Exactly

[Robz888]

Teamlyle, if you agree with my plan, you can vote for no lynch and then unvote.

If you disagree with the plan, vote for no lynch and then don't unvote right away. Scum can't quickhammer the no lynch option, we get another day and they are caught.

Anyone else who votes right now is confessing to being scum.

[Robz888]

Actually I guess it's not that important for teamlyle to confirm, I don't see how it could possibly be wrong to do this, and if it somehow is, it's not like teamlyle is going to be able to explain why.

So... you're up WW.

[Witherweaver]

I'm a VT.

Still doing my McMc reread.

[Robz888]

Okay. Mcmc, you're next.

[Witherweaver]

D2:

Starts off going for Eevee:

So Robz gets a town-vote from you for moving his vote in the run-up to a deadline, but I get suspicion for even talking about moving my own vote?

Well, but I think that makes objective sense. And no, it wasn't right before deadline. Look back, I was around and really trying to get something else going, and even moved my vote with a good amount of time left. If enough people had been around we could have gotten another lynch. I kinda gave up after hours of silence and no one being on.

You "talking" about not feeling good about the Siverspawn lynch at the point when it actually is too late, yeah, that's sort of scummy.

But point taken about Eevee, anyway. Although I suspect your motives.

I think the biggest point here is that eevee's post are continually off by just a bit here or there. I don't think its scummy that spaceanemonie didnt like the lynch, I think its towny from both of you.

I understand what you are saying about the buddying. I think it affects my tone towards Robz now that he is emerging as my strongest town read and I want him to trust me.

It's just that by Day 2, a lot of the time I find that people are just wildly suspicious of me no matter what I do. So you're treating me like town, either because you have a sincere and really solid (and actually correct as it turns out) read on me, or because you're scum and getting on my good side is (in your view) the right strategy.

And I have to try and figure out which of these things is more likely for you. Definitely could be the first thing, but do you see why I would worry it's the second?

So you are playing very towny. Like with how much of a town read I have on you, I think eevee as towny would also have a town read on you but i think eevee is scum.

vote:eevee

Calls J Reggie hammer scummy, analyzes Silver wagon some., talks about possible teams, continues to not like Reggie:

So for now, let's go with a scum team of lalight, calamitas, and Eevee. vote: Eevee.

Woah, I think J Reggie just committed a big scum tell: voting right after people (in this case me and mcmc) start talking seriously about you being scum. Scum get paranoid that they are being talked about and their first impulse is to try to misdirect, and casting a vote is the flashiest way to do that (it literally appears in bold).

Gosh, on top of everything else, I'm not sure I can ignore all the signs. Obvscum is obvscum, yes?  Vote: J Reggie

I agree, I am happy to switch from eevee to jreggie. It also helps that I think its likely that vote he made is against his scum partner in an attempt to be early on a scum lynch and turn that into some town cred.

Also finds LaLight scummy:

actually, creating the IC who can'e be killed at night is much more profitable than people think. Vote: Teamlyle

So I was rereading some things and this stuck out to me as scummy. Now knowing teamlye was telling the truth people who accepted an unprovoked claim so early are scummy. This post came right after the claim and both paco and gkrieg made posts about how strange he claim was and if we should believe it. You are treating his claim as fact immediately and advocating for his lynch.

And interesting post regarding teams:

@robz I actually think so. I guess I'll just say it now because I don't think jreggie is going to answer soon.

Jreggie mentioned if eevee and cal are scum they are playing a good game but it's bold. What struck me about this was I actually think cal and eevee have avoided toalking to each other quite a bit.

It goes back to that feeling of now that we have had a day and a half of discussion who isn't talking to each other and the people that fit that description to me are eevee and cal.

This makes McMc+Cal less likely.. you usually don't talk about your team together this explicitly. 

Ends up moving to J Reggie:

Okay vote: jreggie this is back to l-1

Rereads that have confirmed my town reads on robz and space and wither as well as the amount of stagnation that has hit the thread makes me comfortable voting.

Also with teamlyle having unvoted I think it helps to have as many people in game on wagon so we have more information later but it also makes sense to utilize teamlyles vote so I'm not sure what is best in that regard.

Eevee posts some, McMc finds him scummy again, and eventually revotes:

Actually vote: eevee space if you vote as well that brings eevee to l-1. You mentioned you find eevee scummier than jreggie, I think I agree based on eevees continued posts.

Teamlyle I am curious if you like me thoughts on eevee. If you agree eevee is scummy vote me and then vote back to whatever you like. Thank you.

Robz I would really like you to reread eevee and let me know what you, I definitely think you are town and I think you are just not putting in effort to read eevee, which is no problem you are just scumhunting other avenues.

These interactions around here make McMc look town.  Moving from J Reggie back to Eevee here isn't a regular bus move..the change of mind feels organic.  Specifically the post before this one:

Eevee your response gets at a bit of how I felt you were scummily pushing people to do things in day one. Nothing spaceanemone has done so far has made me think "oh they might not vote in the next day and then we won't know how they felt." Spaceanemone has made their reads rather clear in the event a lynch happens with their vote not placed and I believe that they have been active in question others and moving the game.

It feels like you asked spaceanemone to do something without providing a reason, which was right after you approved of my point (which I didn't really
make) without a real reason, and sandwiched in between those statements was a restatement of who you are voting and that you find them more scummy then someone else...again without a reason. That is why it's very scummy

Eevee gets to L-1 claim, McMc doesn't believe claim:

Gkrieg is such a good player, information about him could be valuable, and I thought he could maybe perform the kill if he was scum.

Very convenient as paco said. Also this reasoning although it is completely believable, it says nothing relevant to this game. You said i tracked X because X is good and I thought he might do Y. That's such a stock answer, if you are a power role and you did track someone who ends up dying you have to have immediately thought oh great that stunk I better explain myself well. Then now when questioned you should be able to say, gkreik was acting this certain way, I had this suspicion about him because of that, I also noticed him doing this so I figured tracking him was a great option.

and more back and forth follows.

He eventually unvotes following talk of J Reggie:

and during the fallout a great case on jreggie was made.

Wait, when did this happen?

Oh my gosh, no I had forgotten it was for the super scummy hammer of silverspawn, not the vote for eevee that could have been the hammer.

unvote I have to reread more but I might be back to j reggie as the best choice

Reggie gets to L-1, McMc intends to hammer but I do it first.

That finishes Day 2.  Of note here is that he revitalized the Eevee wagon when J Reggie was quite possible.  That's really ballsy to do to your partner. 

[SpaceAnemone]

Aw, crap. No, seriously claiming is a stupid idea!

If we have another PR out there they should definitely stay hidden because scum has an RB.

I'll catch up with the rest and work out what the post of mine that mcmc keeps referring to is, though I'm convinced he's scum and trying to frame me for something.

[Calamitas]

Aw, crap. No, seriously claiming is a stupid idea!

If we have another PR out there they should definitely stay hidden because scum has an RB.

I'll catch up with the rest and work out what the post of mine that mcmc keeps referring to is, though I'm convinced he's scum and trying to frame me for something.

Claiming is certainly not stupid, scum has only 1RB after all.

[Robz888]

Aw, crap. No, seriously claiming is a stupid idea!

If we have another PR out there they should definitely stay hidden because scum has an RB.

I'll catch up with the rest and work out what the post of mine that mcmc keeps referring to is, though I'm convinced he's scum and trying to frame me for something.

Claiming is certainly not stupid, scum has only 1RB after all.

And it's more important to create ICs right now if we can. Possibly solve the setup, corner some scum.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay. Mcmc, you're next.

I'm a VT