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[Lekkit]

Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.

This is VERY incriminating.

??

I doubt that the mafia are card-restricted for their night kill action. Maybe for their PRs, if they have any. But restricting the kill seems like really messing with fundamental mafia protocol, and I don't know that LL would do that.

Well, I say that, but EFHW assuming otherwise almost looks like a scum slip here. Gosh.

These were my exact thoughts. I thought about scum having that restriction. But we could end up in draw situations then.

[Robz888]

Robz, what makes you so sure he is town? I've started to build a PoE scum read on him, as other people have started looking townier today, and I think RR's contributions have really fallen off since yesterday. Am I being unfair? That's only a couple of posts today that are longer than 1-2 sentences.

My huge town read on him stems from his play at the end of day 1, where I watched him go thru basically all the exact same emotions I did regarding the Jake/McG/Calamitas lynch choices. I hadn't realized how absent he was today, but that doesn't necessarily make me think he's scum. Being confused and disinterested on a difficult day 2 is almost more townie than scummy.

[Robz888]

Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.

This is VERY incriminating.

??

I doubt that the mafia are card-restricted for their night kill action. Maybe for their PRs, if they have any. But restricting the kill seems like really messing with fundamental mafia protocol, and I don't know that LL would do that.

Well, I say that, but EFHW assuming otherwise almost looks like a scum slip here. Gosh.

These were my exact thoughts. I thought about scum having that restriction. But we could end up in draw situations then.

Keep in mind that EFHW subbed in to this game. If she is scum, and they do have that restriction, she might have seen it in her PM or whatever and assumed it was public knowledge in the setup somewhere.

[EFHW]

We don't know scum can't kill based on types.

          ,          (  I    ).

[Eevee]

Robz, what makes you so sure he is town? I've started to build a PoE scum read on him, as other people have started looking townier today, and I think RR's contributions have really fallen off since yesterday. Am I being unfair? That's only a couple of posts today that are longer than 1-2 sentences.

My huge town read on him stems from his play at the end of day 1, where I watched him go thru basically all the exact same emotions I did regarding the Jake/McG/Calamitas lynch choices. I hadn't realized how absent he was today, but that doesn't necessarily make me think he's scum. Being confused and disinterested on a difficult day 2 is almost more townie than scummy.

To me it's weird to be active and on top of everything day 1, but then appear confused/disengaged day 2. Or, well, suddenly hanging back makes me think he is happy with the direction we are going (which in the scum narrative would be not towards him or his partners of course). We have WAY more information now than we did yesterday, I don't think RR's play is reflecting that.

Sort of feels like Robz is making excuses for RR here. I'm not saying I'm sure he is scum, but saying his play today is strengthening your townread seems crazy to me. Unreasonable even!

[Robz888]

Eevee, it's impossible to happy with the direction things are going. It's not even clear what direction things are going.

[EFHW]

On phone, sorry. pps didn't want to say his type because maybe scum need to know to take actions. That's what led me to think that.

[Lekkit]

Sorry if I was unclear. What I meant was that I assumed they didn't have that restriction because to me it didn't make much sense. I could see it being a possibility. But I'd assume others would come to that same conclusion. It could be she didn't think about the end game possibilities, which makes her post actually sound really towny, or she didn't think about us not knowing about a possible restriction, which would make it a scum slip.

[EFHW]

I didn't find Eevee's end of day 1 all that towny. He was pretty set on Jake, with some token mention of other options. Also, rusty town doesn't have so much filler, but rusty scum might.

[Robz888]

On phone, sorry. pps didn't want to say his type because maybe scum need to know to take actions. That's what led me to think that.

You did NOT say "know to take actions," you said "kill." Scum PRs being type-restricted seems in-keeping with what we know so far, the scum night kill being restricted is pretty out there IMO.

[Eevee]

Re: EFHW (Apparently there is a limit for quotes per post, as it wouldn't let me quote anymore)


I usually hate hate hate scumslip arguments, but this looks VERY promising.

It would explain so many things! Why did was Calamitas killed (I really dislike the redirector/lighting rod theories in a normal game), why McG's play was so weird for a doctor (ding ding ding), and the mistake for EFHW would be understandable as she subbed in in a hurry.

[Eevee]

Eevee, it's impossible to happy with the direction things are going. It's not even clear what direction things are going.

Well, RR himself sure isn't facing any heat. I think it's pretty natural for a mafia player to take less risks when it seems like status quo is going to be someone else, which could then end up looking like RR's play today, enough raw posting to not be called out for lurking, but not a lot of meat in them.

[EFHW]

On phone, sorry. pps didn't want to say his type because maybe scum need to know to take actions. That's what led me to think that.

You did NOT say "know to take actions," you said "kill." Scum PRs being type-restricted seems in-keeping with what we know so far, the scum night kill being restricted is pretty out there IMO.

If I were scum I wouldn't see any value in providing this possible explanation for the Calamitas nk. Maybe it's a bad theory, but as doctor I was thinking about 1. Who should I protect and 2. What are my chances of survival.

[pingpongsam]

There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?

I don't think this is fair towards SA, unless you are insinuating SA knowingly rolefished around to out a PR, and this is coming from someone who is voting for them. Does mafia ever really do that, blatantly rolefish? I can't think of a single time it's happened in my memory.

This feels more like PPS trying to discredit SA who is making the argument against him, not the argument made itself, if that makes sense.

Yes, not so much discredit and reinforce my own rather flimsy case on them. This seems like more of the same attempt to detract from the fact that the McGypsy issue was at hand yet they felt a need to continue to press about my role. It seemed really counterproductive at the time and seems downright scummy now as I don't recall them ever addressing that particular issue once I was outed.

[SpaceAnemone]

There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?

I don't think this is fair towards SA, unless you are insinuating SA knowingly rolefished around to out a PR, and this is coming from someone who is voting for them. Does mafia ever really do that, blatantly rolefish? I can't think of a single time it's happened in my memory.

This feels more like PPS trying to discredit SA who is making the argument against him, not the argument made itself, if that makes sense.

Yes, not so much discredit and reinforce my own rather flimsy case on them. This seems like more of the same attempt to detract from the fact that the McGypsy issue was at hand yet they felt a need to continue to press about my role. It seemed really counterproductive at the time and seems downright scummy now as I don't recall them ever addressing that particular issue once I was outed.

What exactly is the particular "McGypsy issue" you want me to address and feel I'm neglecting? I've pretty much laid out all my (scuppered!) plans already in that respect, and I'm still suspicious of the both of you.

[gkrieg13]

I don't think it was a scum slip

[pingpongsam]

There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?

I don't think this is fair towards SA, unless you are insinuating SA knowingly rolefished around to out a PR, and this is coming from someone who is voting for them. Does mafia ever really do that, blatantly rolefish? I can't think of a single time it's happened in my memory.

This feels more like PPS trying to discredit SA who is making the argument against him, not the argument made itself, if that makes sense.

Yes, not so much discredit and reinforce my own rather flimsy case on them. This seems like more of the same attempt to detract from the fact that the McGypsy issue was at hand yet they felt a need to continue to press about my role. It seemed really counterproductive at the time and seems downright scummy now as I don't recall them ever addressing that particular issue once I was outed.

What exactly is the particular "McGypsy issue" you want me to address and feel I'm neglecting? I've pretty much laid out all my (scuppered!) plans already in that respect, and I'm still suspicious of the both of you.

All I recall and am currently finding is where you analyze me in regards to my response and positioning around the fact that McEGghead survived the night. Maybe I missed where you directly address this seeming anomaly without just brushing it aside as well Calamitas was the obvious play. If EFHW is the town Dr why did she get to play today?

[Robz888]

Vote Count 2.5

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (1): SpaceAnemone
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13

Not Voting (1): Lekkit

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm

Yikes, we're all over the place

[SpaceAnemone]

What exactly is the particular "McGypsy issue" you want me to address and feel I'm neglecting? I've pretty much laid out all my (scuppered!) plans already in that respect, and I'm still suspicious of the both of you.

All I recall and am currently finding is where you analyze me in regards to my response and positioning around the fact that McEGghead survived the night. Maybe I missed where you directly address this seeming anomaly without just brushing it aside as well Calamitas was the obvious play. If EFHW is the town Dr why did she get to play today?

The "if EFHW is town" possibilities:
1) If she's town and you're town, the it would seem likely that scum knew what PRs are out there, and figured that the NK would be watched, so targeted someone else. It doesn't do a good job of explaining RR being the doc target, or your investigative roll being used on Dylan and not to catch scum.
2) If EFHW is town and you're scum, then my case on you doesn't need to justify your weird NK decision, and we're in a better position because we may still have town PRs out there. This also would explain why you seem to have a result on Dylan, since you wouldn't actually have had to think about who to target to such a degree. And I've seen how you work in a scum QT before.. you liked the wild plays but didn't necessarily think the details through.

There are also the "if EFHW is scum" possibilities:
1) EFHW scum and you not-scum. This would make sense of the odd RR doc-claim because it's a safe lie, and would make perfect sense why someone other than McG died in the night. It doesn't make sense of the fact that you didn't use your investigation on McEFHW, though, or the part where you refused to help with the scum-trap/ignored my suggestions.
2) Both you and EFHW are scum. Most of the big evidence makes sense: someone other than McG dieing, your odd choice of claimed investigation target, and your reluctance to try to compare notes in order to "out" a scum.

[Eevee]

If anyone, it would definitely be PPS going for the bold play as scum..

I don't like this development of liking the analysis in the posts of the person I'm voting for.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 2.5

IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (1): SpaceAnemone
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13

Not Voting (1): Lekkit

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm

Yikes, we're all over the place

Really do need to consolidate. I'll be back at 12:30 and will move then if needed, but Eevee really is my first choice.

[EFHW]

That will be my last chance to post, probably. I won't be on at deadline.

[gkrieg13]

I mean we still have plurality lynch

[SpaceAnemone]

I mean we still have plurality lynch

Not so comforting for me!

What's your argument for Lekkit over PPS, given that you seemed to acknowledge at least some of my case on the latter?

[gkrieg13]

I mean we still have plurality lynch

Not so comforting for me!

What's your argument for Lekkit over PPS, given that you seemed to acknowledge at least some of my case on the latter?

I mean part of it is just general feel.  I still don't feel like PPS is scum.  Even with the inconsistencies, I think those are more things that PPS just does.  Part of it is just from wanting to lynch a lurker, rather than lynch someone who is very active, because scum has been winning that way recently and I don't really like it.  I also feel fairly strongly that my reads this time are good, so I would really rather not lynch someone who wasn't in my lynch pool after doing my reread.  I spent a lot of time on that reread, and I think that I'm right.

On another hand, PPS is claiming that he is a PR, so that is another reason to keep him alive for another day.  Also we have plurality lynch, so voting for the person you think is scummiest is what you want to do at this point.

The biggest thing going for Lekkit in my mind is that he is a lurker, that also has some shady things going for him.  I'm also less excited about voting for you now that Eevee and Robz both got on that wagon.  They are two that I'm also very dubious about and I don't like it when my scum reads all vote with me.  Not that they wouldn't bus, but it just doesn't give me the biggest warm fuzzies.