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Author Topic: IsoDom 3 Round 1  (Read 21175 times)

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Young Nick

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2012, 11:57:48 pm »
0

It was the daughter, in the living room with the candlestick! I'm calling it right now.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2012, 12:34:25 am »
0

Game 7, Volkmar 36 - 36 Robz888
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-201616-3dbd2c15.html
Alchemist, Develop, Great Hall, Haven, Library, Potion, Secret Chamber, Smithy, Village, Vineyard, and Worker's Village
A draw in the last game, it just can't get any closer. I still feel like I should've lost this one. I went Alchemist/BM. I saw the Alchemist/Worker's Village/Smithy/Vineyard thing, but when I got the chance to take an early gold I decided to try and outrace that. In the end I was just able to take the draw, but if the game went on any longer I would've been toast.
This is about as ideal of a vineyards set as I know.  You can easily grab 24 actions and 8 vineyards while still being able to draw your deck.  You do acknowledge worker's village and secret chamber (easier source of money than gold) so I'm sure you were on to it.  Trust it and go for it fully!  Havens to split up potions.  Develop if you want to even make more actions.  WV for + buys, smithies/alchemist to draw so you're never stuck.  It takes a lot of turns for BM to hit 8 provinces... A lot.  Heat of the moment :(
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Robz888

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2012, 01:52:39 am »
0

Game 7, Volkmar 36 - 36 Robz888
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-201616-3dbd2c15.html
Alchemist, Develop, Great Hall, Haven, Library, Potion, Secret Chamber, Smithy, Village, Vineyard, and Worker's Village
A draw in the last game, it just can't get any closer. I still feel like I should've lost this one. I went Alchemist/BM. I saw the Alchemist/Worker's Village/Smithy/Vineyard thing, but when I got the chance to take an early gold I decided to try and outrace that. In the end I was just able to take the draw, but if the game went on any longer I would've been toast.
This is about as ideal of a vineyards set as I know.  You can easily grab 24 actions and 8 vineyards while still being able to draw your deck.  You do acknowledge worker's village and secret chamber (easier source of money than gold) so I'm sure you were on to it.  Trust it and go for it fully!  Havens to split up potions.  Develop if you want to even make more actions.  WV for + buys, smithies/alchemist to draw so you're never stuck.  It takes a lot of turns for BM to hit 8 provinces... A lot.  Heat of the moment :(

You are absolutely right. I'm just not that comfortable with a pure Vineyards strategy, because you really have to ignore Provinces, right? I sort of meandered my way into Vineyards, and I had a really powerful deck going there, so I took a chance and bought the PPR, knowing that worst case scenario, he would tie me. Which is what happened, and then I lost the tiebreaker, so shame on me.
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Robz888

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2012, 02:11:28 am »
+1

Volkmar did a good commentary on our series, so I'll just do quick additional thoughts:

Game 1: Volkmar 35 Robz888 28 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-190942-62be629c.html
My opponent had not looked at the set before hand, and I had, and I still got trounced. He ignored Familiars and didn't buy Watchtower, which I thought would fail for sure. It didn't. His Hamlet/Torturer engine simply exceeded me in the end game.

Game 2: Volkmar 42 Robz888 30 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-191936-925a832e.html
I pretty much win the Ambassador war, and my opponent picks up Coppers from his Caches, and I feel pretty confident. But ultimately I just can't catch up. I must commend my opponent for winning these first two games--in both I thought my strategy was better, and I got crushed.

Game 3: Robz888 33 Volkmar 28 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-192445-0d3de260.html
My first victory in the set turns out to be probably the least interesting game of all. I go for Stables, there's nothing better than Stables, my opponent doesn't, and I win. I think my opponent's draws pushed him away from Stables, though, so I may have gotten lucky here.

Game 4: Robz888 48 Volkmar 36 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-194429-3ccc1f3b.html
One of the tenser games I've ever played. What to do with Ambassadors, Tournaments, and Minions? I do slightly better with Ambassador than he does, and I decide to go for Gold instead of Minions, which was probably wrong. He goes for Minions, which pays off because even though I have more Tournaments, I can never connect them when I am Minioned every other turn. Unfortunately for him, I'm pretty sure his Followers hurt him more than they hurt me, by making it harder to keep the Minion chain going, and I eek out a nailbiting win. Still, I might have gotten lucky to close the deal on this one.

Game 5: Robz888 38 Volkmar 21 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-195325-d70e780f.html
I did outplay him here. I Apprentice more aggressively and it translates into an easy win.

Game 6: Volkmar 51 Robz888 46 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-200723-1db0eeed.html
Early trashing is key to his superior Nobles/Torturer chain. A good win for him.

Game 7: Robz888 36 Volkmar 36 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-201616-3dbd2c15.html
As noted above, I totally blew this one.

Game 8: Volkmar 40 Robz888 29 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-203643-0ad1a2e7.html
What do you do when both your strategies are so bad, so incapable of winning, and yet you're so committed to them? We both back out of our horrendous attempts at Scrying Pool engines and go for Fool's Gold. In the end, his Trade Routes make the difference. I sort of got unlucky here, but it's hard to complain when everything I did was wrong anyway.

Anyways, check out Game 4 for probably the coolest match, and Game 8 for the most disaster-ish.
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PerdHapley

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2012, 03:53:05 am »
+1

dubdubdubdub just beat me 4-2. I feel I played pretty poorly in a few of these, but regardless, he played great, and totally deserves the win. Brief post for now, I'll come back and say more later.

Game 1:dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-234632-53262e93.html
We both open Potion/Watchtower, and going for University/Torturer ends up backfiring and cluttering my deck a little too much. Pretty close in the end, but there are a lot of things I would've done differently in retrospect here.

Game 2: dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-235644-068ff1f3.html
We both go for Alchemists, but he grabs an embassy first and puts together a much better engine.

Game 3: perdhapley http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-000725-074685d9.html
A really fun Silk Road game with Harems - I pick up a tactician out of black market and it's game over.

Game 4: dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-001400-af269299.html
Grabbing Ghost Ship might've been a mistake here, I'm not sure. Either way, I felt just a little bit behind all game here, and the result didn't surprise me.

Game 5: perdhapley Missing this one, it was a Hoard/Gardens game. I got a head start on the Hoards and managed to win by a pretty decent margin.

Game 6: dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-003419-c0cca4a5.html
This one still stings a bit - I have it all game until I hit a $1 penultimate turn and lose by one point.


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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2012, 05:10:04 am »
+2

dubdubdubdub just beat me 4-2. I feel I played pretty poorly in a few of these, but regardless, he played great, and totally deserves the win. Brief post for now, I'll come back and say more later.

Game 1:dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-234632-53262e93.html
We both open Potion/Watchtower, and going for University/Torturer ends up backfiring and cluttering my deck a little too much. Pretty close in the end, but there are a lot of things I would've done differently in retrospect here.

Game 2: dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-235644-068ff1f3.html
We both go for Alchemists, but he grabs an embassy first and puts together a much better engine.

Game 3: perdhapley http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-000725-074685d9.html
A really fun Silk Road game with Harems - I pick up a tactician out of black market and it's game over.

Game 4: dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-001400-af269299.html
Grabbing Ghost Ship might've been a mistake here, I'm not sure. Either way, I felt just a little bit behind all game here, and the result didn't surprise me.

Game 5: perdhapley Missing this one, it was a Hoard/Gardens game. I got a head start on the Hoards and managed to win by a pretty decent margin.

Game 6: dubdubdubdub http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-003419-c0cca4a5.html
This one still stings a bit - I have it all game until I hit a $1 penultimate turn and lose by one point.

I'll go into a little more detail, since it's morning for me and PerdHapley may well be off to bed by now.

Game 1: Dubdubdubdub 40 - PerdHapley 34. I lost the curse war 5 to 3 (2 got WT'd) and felt like I started this mandatory game pretty badly. I've always had trouble combining cursers (I wouldn't know what to do with a Witch, Mountebank and IGG on the board). Anyway, Torturer is pretty bad against Watchtower, especially when the curses are gone. I only profited from this once, but that's the reason I never got one. My play was a little boring.

Game 2: Dubdubdubdub 33 - PerdHapley 19. I vetoed Hunting Party because I feel like most high-level players are more proficient with it than me. PerdHapley's comment about this game is quite right, I think. I believe I timed the Embassy buys pretty well, and the Walled Village helped me chain them twice. Embassies got me my potions, so I never had to discard groups of Alchemists.

Game 3: PerdHapley 69 - Dubdubdubdub resigned. I love Harem and Silk Road, but botched the game here. I actually vetoed Inn to give my Treasure/Victory strat a better chance, but ended up helping PH. Lab and Tactician from BM finished me off. I studied the BM deck beforehand and wasn't impressed. I saw no heavy cursers nor great trashers, which is what I always look for. I won't miss Tactician in there next time :)

Game 4: Dubdubdubdub 47 - PerdHapley 37. The only difference between our decks (besides the Victory cards, which we both had 11 of at the end), was one Ghost Ship for PH and one more Stables for me. I got a bit lucky getting $8 together earlier, but I stand by my Stables. Ghost Ship usually scares me, but Stables seemed like it would be a strong counter.

Game 5: Perdhapley wins. Looks like alternate VP didn't go well for me this match (see game 3). I wanted to rush Gardens and opened Gardens/Trade Route. Trade Route! It took me up to turn 3 or 4 to realize the obligatory trash, after which I tried to wiggle out of my initial strat, buying Royal Seals (I think), 1 or 2 Hoards, and finally more Gardens (because PH was getting them). One big mess, deserved to lose.

Game 6: Dubdubdubdub 33 - PerdHapley 32. I was more than a little lucky on the final turn; I had almost given up on this game.  PH plays a Lab and a Margrave and still only has $1, which is incredible considering his deck. I even reacted to his Margrave by discarding down from $8, because I wouldn't be buying the province anyway if he got an Estate or more. I'd rather Spy. Luckily, that turn got me back up to $8, winning the match. My deck was a lot simpler than his and essentially BM. I really think he had me, statistically.

All in all: fun games. Thank you, PerdHapley! On to round 2!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 05:24:37 am by Dubdubdubdub »
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Jorbles

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2012, 12:56:04 pm »
0

Volkmar did a good commentary on our series, so I'll just do quick additional thoughts:

Game 1: Volkmar 35 Robz888 28 http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120131-190942-62be629c.html
My opponent had not looked at the set before hand, and I had, and I still got trounced. He ignored Familiars and didn't buy Watchtower, which I thought would fail for sure. It didn't. His Hamlet/Torturer engine simply exceeded me in the end game.

@Robz888 you could have tipped the tides in your favour by Embargoing Hamlets or Torturers, he would have had to shift gears into a BMU or Potion game and lost a lot of tempo. Especially if your Embargo hit after he Embargoed Merchant Ships.
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Rabid

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2012, 03:35:48 pm »
0

(Edit: 4-1 to Rabid)  Rabid 2, Yuma 0  To be finished later in the week, Yuma had to go to work.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-121431-537af475.html
I think I won this on the back of start player + familiar, for a controlled 3 pile finish.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-122404-def4d631.html

Interesting game, 5/2 start for me with the options of: Margrave, Ghost Ship, City, Saboteur, with Joat on the board in a colony game. I went for Margrave into alchemist, but I think Joat / Nothing might have been better. I was way behind in mid game so planned to empty Alchemist to power up the City's, then got some lucky draws for the come back.

Thanks for the games Yuma, looking forward to the rest of the match.

Game 3:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-090549-e09f4d2e.html
Yuma opens Embassey | embargo (to prevent me from going Scrying pool), to my Salvager | Silver.
Yuma gets unlucky and keeps drawing the embargo dead, I win with BM+ Salvager.

Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-091612-1023bb53.html
For what I hope is the last time, (but know it wont be) I under estimate Duke.

Game 5:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-092529-7e9597dc.html
Sea hag into slow gardens
I guess I win this mostly due to start player, winning the curse war 6 - 4.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 12:36:46 pm by Rabid »
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Geronimoo

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2012, 04:08:51 pm »
+1

Geronimoo beats ccasin 4-1

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-115528-da15dc0f.html
Geronimoo 43 - ccasin 29
To be honest, I didn't prepare for the fixed set. Lazy I guess, or maybe it was the Torturer that sickened me. Either way, ccasin opens Potion and I go for Embargo hoping to hurt him a little. Unfortunately he gets his Familiar before I'm able to Embargo them. Eventually I go for a Hamlet/Watchtower engine with Stewards for trashing and Merchant Ships for money. I don't think my opponent played optimal because I get plenty of time to set it up. Even a misclick on turn 17 where I accidently discard a Watchtower (would have drawn 6) doesn't hurt me. I made plenty other mistakes this game, but hey, I won!

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-120916-29f256c2.html
Geronimoo 30 - ccasin 25
This was a very strange game. There's Chapel+Minion, or Ambassador+Mining Village+Minion, or Ambassador+Fool's Gold, or Chapel+Fool's Gold. Eventually we both go for double Ambassador into Fool's Gold AND Minions. Yes, it looks bad, yes, it probably IS bad, yes, I didn't know what I was doing, yes I won :) But what would you do in the very early turns when you Ambassador 2 cards away and have $2 to spend? Not buy a Fool's Gold?

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-121709-4bfd43ee.html
Geronimoo 27- ccasin 41
Both go for Jack into Mountebank. I probably make a mistake buying a Loan and then lady Luck decided to completely screw me over. Just look at what I drew turn 10 (3 terminals) and turn 14. I probably did buy too many terminals, but still, OUCH!

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-122347-6add15b8.html
Geronimoo 50- ccasin 34
This was a pretty standard Margrave-Hoard deck. My opponent opens Fortune Teller which seems a bad idea when you want multiple Margraves. I open Silver/Silver, get a Margrave, a Hoard, some more of both and cruise to victory.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-122934-a4ee5ebd.html
Geronimoo 39- ccasin 38
I'm second player and have to open $5/$2. Lucky for me, ccasin thinks Alchemist is good in Province games. I open Rabble and just go BM with some Nobles and outrace my Potion loving opponent.

Far from optimal play from my side, but I'm through to the next round, weeeee! Thx for playin, ccasin!
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DG

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2012, 07:43:48 pm »
+1

Oh well, my lack of concentration exposed again. Great Expectations beats DG 4:2

DG 7 : 3 greatexpectations http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-145040-70dfec14.html
DG 45 : 28 greatexpectations  http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-145633-06ef10cd.html
DG 20 : 32 greatexpectations http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-153334-08408a67.html
DG 27 : 28 greatexpectations http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-150839-dc03ba68.html
DG 39 : 48 greatexpectations http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-154120-12ad9676.html
DG 36 : 46 greatexpectations http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-155441-072f09b7.html

Game 1 - greatexpectations skipped the potions and went for steward/watchower with hamlets. I thought he'd got ahead in development and trashing but everything fell together for me (one time only) on the last turn for a piles win from the extra turn. That's the advantage of the uni I suppose.

Game 2: I just got a flier with nomad's camp and fool's gold.

Game 3: With an unfortunate 5/2 start on a board that needed a lot of 4 cost cards I took a mandarin then spice trader to trash and spend. It seemed to have worked well but I got slightly behind on bridges/walled villages and then couldn't catch up without offering a 3 pile finish. I had one key choice of village or bridge to smuggle and picked the wrong one and that probably contributed to my defeat despite smuggling provinces.

Game 4: Ambassador game where I set up an expansion with university feeding treasuries and greatexpectations stuck to ambassadors/silver. I thought I would be ok with one ambassador but this turned out not to be the case and we ended up quite balanced before the endgame, my deck containing more good and more bad. His deck came through.

Game 5: Straightforward trading post/lab went on a tangent when I bought a noble brigand and he went for monuments. I'm guessing I got this plainly wrong and he got it right. I've hardly ever bought the noble brigand and I've somehow always made the card steal silver I don't really want.

Game 6: Bishop vs Jester. The jester won. I waited for a 6 hand and a border village to get a jester of my own but by then greatexpectations had done a lot of damage with his jester. It was one of those games where you feel like you've lost by about turn 8, keep the scores close, but it all inevitably comes home to roost.

Thanks for the series. Good luck in the next round.
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shark_bait

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2012, 10:50:25 pm »
0

I just beat Kirian 4-2 in a fun series.  I accidentally missed some of the logs so I'll add council room logs and thoughts tomorrow.  Here's a quick summary.

I got out to a quick 3-0 lead before he came blazing back to win the next 2 making it 3-2.  At this point, I could only think of iso dome 2 where califax comes back from 0 - 3 to bring me down.  Going into Game 6, I was determined to not falter again.  The main features of this game were witch, governor, duke and golem.  Both of us open silver/silver and pick up a single witch after the first reshuffle.  So far, things even.  I pick up a potion to hopefully golem into 2 witches and unfortunately, my witch draws the golem dead the first time through.  By this point, Kirian has a bit more treasure density and has stuck first at the provinces.  I'm a little behind due to my golem sidetrack and at around this point in the game, I decide to go for the dukes.  I use my governors to trash silvers and make a rush for the duchies.  Kirian is forced to trash his potion despite having a single golem in order prevent me from getting an unbeatable duchy advantage.  His more cluttered deck is now unreliable at buying provinces and I'm able to use my 5/3 duchy split and 3/1 golem advantage to cruise on in for the win.  Thanks to Kirian for a fun series and good luck to olneyce and Young Nick as one of them is my next opponent.


 
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RisingJaguar

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2012, 11:01:35 pm »
+1

Well that was a fun set, where I play horribly... So many questionable openings and strategies so lets get to it!

Links right below:

Game 1: This is the one game where I play flawlessly in my mind.  I was committed to building hamlet/watchtower all the way.  I think trashing is super key here, in attempt to use merchant ship as the disappearing terminal.  I'm honestly quite confused first why he buys an embargo after seeing me go potion, and then two embargoing torturers.  In my attempts to play game 9, I learned just how wonderful ironworks (in this case university)/watchtower is, you can essentially set your next draw right up and I do that at least once to great effect.  It also provides a very strong defense for familiars as we both avoid a lot of the attacks.  I am able to get my engine running a couple times for the comfortable 3 pile win. 

Game 2: Boy I'm shocked Hamlet/silver beat out courtyard/silver.  Sure he buys a T4 TP, sure I miss my courtyard on T3/T4, Hamlet on T3, I should be up no? Somehow he outraces me even when we transition to vault.  This makes me go to the drawing (eh?) board for BM...

Game 3: 5/2 start where obviously we go Mountebanks.  We quickly go to double Mountebanks and go ballisitic on each other.  I very much considered Talismans to gardens, but since I was going first, just stay with the attacks.  I grab 4 terminals by T10 or so which sorta hurt, but worse Counting house grabs one copper and 0 the two times i had it.  Well in a desperate attempt to salvage the game, not sure if i was actually down, but i rush gardens. It ends up being helpful in the end as they are 5 points (almost 6).  It ends up being a huge rush for greens and as Ferrous grabs a 8+ counting house, I buy the last estate to win. 

Game 4: 3 Golds by T6... and it felt like game over.  Same start too which makes it more insane to me :(  Clearly I'm a smart guy by grabbing 3 cities, but what else am i gonna do with $5? I was incredibly frustrated then. I try to switch to a fairgrounds game, but then I start hitting $8.  I decide to stick to it in order to drag the game out longer.  Swindling his province near the end didn't help, but I was dead in the water anyways. 

Game 5: Heads up, I was the one with both mining villages, and it sure helped.  We both open Masquerade/silver.  Then transition to wharves except I go for a 'engine' style with a couple of MV.  They help prevent collisions but I do believe I drew them dead once or twice.  I take a quick early lead but he presses forward near the end forcing me to buy the last province.  Luckily MV was there for me to trash for the second turn in a row for the win. 

Game 6: Key cards: Tournament, Mining Village, Haven, University, Margrave, Market, Peddlers, Mine. 
I'm very insistent on trying to diverge as a second player if I can (ie. ambassador is a time usually when i cannot).  So he opens up Tournament/Silver while I go potion/silver.  The idea for me was to be able to constantly attack while being able to steal 8ish peddlers while he goes off to his tournament stuff.  I forgot MV was on board and he is able to grab two early provinces, and get his followers quite soon after (T11ish?).  At this point, begin to have a huge selection of cantrips to play and able to grab 7/3 peddlers.  He is up 2-1 in provinces and launched followers a few times already.  He goes for the kill by trying to buy out the remaining estates in a 3-estate buy turn.  Now there's only 1 market and 2 estates left.  Luckily I'm able to grab the slight lead in order to force him to continue the game.  I somehow have a better economy despite the curses and eek out the win. 

Quite bluntly, I'm not proud of any of my wins aside from #1.  I make horrible openings and buys, definitely not my smoothest games.  Ferrous played well, thanks for the games. 

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120201-175223-bd71f845.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120202-182450-a4b8f238.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120202-183041-0907e4cc.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120202-183833-8fd2950c.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120202-184244-68a374b1.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120202-185002-81de9679.html
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 11:48:53 pm by RisingJaguar »
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RisingJaguar

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2012, 11:11:49 pm »
+2

Also regarding game 1, this was a much more fun, thoughtful set than I was expecting.  I hadn't really practiced, just thought about it.  There's some interesting ways to play this set, in defending, attacking, engine building from what I've seen.  The only unusable card in this set seems to be moneylender, which is pretty good.  I've got more thoughts on this but I"ll hold off until we see other games.  I rather not influence it.  Good set.
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greatexpectations

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2012, 12:22:41 am »
+1

i had a good set with DG. he was a friendly opponent and we had some good discussion of strategy ad play styles. we were both a bit rusty, but i had the advantage as DG was not as familiar with the hinterlands set.

a few quick comments to add on his writeups...

game 1 - if you don't want to be influenced by my take, then here's your chance to skip ahead to the next game. i didn't come in with a strategy, but i opted to skip all cursing entirely.  i ran a hamlet / watchtower engine, using steward to slim down and alternating merchant ships for treasure.  i used a trick i'd done once before, massing spare buys with a watchtower in hand to buy out the curse pile. i killed 4 this way, and could have had 3 more easily, but i passed because the game was too close to ending on piles.  in the end, i got a bit too cute and slimmed my deck too far.  DG jumped on it and wisely ended it on piles.

game 2 - he was modest about it, but he absolutely wrecked me with nomads camp / fools gold with tacticians.  6 provinces and a duchy in 15 turns.

game 6 - if there had been plus buys anywhere it would have been a dream board for the conspirator. as it was, we avoided them entirely.  we got down to 3 provinces left and then duchy danced the game away. my jester probably did more attacking than gaining, as i passed 5 copper and a curse in 18 turns.
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shark_bait

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2012, 10:08:20 am »
+1

Here are the logs and thoughts as promised.

Game 1:  shark_bait 18 - Kirian 17 

We both open steward/potion for the trashing and familiar.  I stop at a single familiar and then use my potion buys on university.  Kirian picks up 3 total familiar and manages a 6/4 curse split.  During that time I also acquired some watchtowers but never once managed to line them up with his familiar plays.  With my universities, I'm able to line up the play university, reveal watchtower and play watchtower combo which was helped along with hamlet.  On turn 18 with only 2 hamlets and 2 province left and the lead, I unfortunately only have 1 buy.  This gives Kirian a chance for the win with a province/double hamlet turn.  He just misses.  This allows me to buy out the hamlets for a one point win.

Game 2: shark_bait 39 - Kirian 33

The key cards in this set were Border Village, Governor, and Swindler.  I opt for the double swindler opening while Kirian plays it safe with Silver/Swindler.  We play a very similar game of Border Village-->Governor while maintaining a few Swindlers.  The key play was on turn 18 when I swindle the penultimate province.  At this point in the game, the duchies are gone and I don't have the cash for the last province.  I'm towards the bottom of my deck and rather than buy a useless estate, I go for border village/governor hoping I can grab the game winning province before he does.  Unfortunately, his deck does not have a province buy and I pick up the last one on my next turn.  The series could have very easily have been 2 - 0 to Kirian at this point if his last turns were more fortunate.

Game 3: shark_bait 19 - Kirian 7

This game was dominated by a single combo.  The dreaded KC/Saboteur.  I open with quarry/woodcutter while Kirian goes spice merchant/silver.  Fortune favors me and my opening cards collide and I pick up double spice merchant and another quarry.  My fortune continues and I'm able to get 2 KC's and a conspirator and a saboteur before Kirian manages his first KC.  At this point, he thinks it virtually over but my first KC is drawn dead leaving a small glimmer of hope.  Unfortunately for Kirian, my second KC hits the saboteur and from that point on, it's just a matter of me whittling down the piles and waiting for my chance to pick up the 3-pile win.

Game 4: shark_bait 41 - Kirian 55

This was the game was I got completely outplayed.  I didn't think that goons could be an effective engine with no +card and forge as the only trasher.  Consequently, my plan was to try and pick up a couple and transition into a garden/3-pile game.  Kirian goes for the MV/Goons and manages to pair up his goons a few times for huge benefits. 

Game 5: shark_bait 50 - Kirian 60

I honestly am stunned that I lost this game.  I felt about quite confident of a victory midway through the game when I had equal platinum, more Gold and a 3/2 expand advantage.  The painful point is that I could have won but on my last 2 turns, I pass on buying the penultimate colony because if he bought the last one, he would win *Edit* by having the last turn.  Then on his last turn, he expands a province and buys a colony for the win.

Game 6: shark_bait 63 - Kirian 46

See my previous post for description.  I think this game demonstrates how Golem can make an effective engine despite an initial onslaught of curses.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 11:35:03 am by shark_bait »
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Hello.  Name's Bruce.  It's all right.  I understand.  Why trust a shark, right?

Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?

DStu

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2012, 10:17:30 am »
0

The painful point is that I could have won but on my last 2 turns, I pass on buying the penultimate colony because if he bought the last one, he would win on turns. 
How can you win on turns when you finish the game?
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shark_bait

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2012, 11:34:07 am »
0

The painful point is that I could have won but on my last 2 turns, I pass on buying the penultimate colony because if he bought the last one, he would win on turns. 
How can you win on turns when you finish the game?

Oops, your right.  I guess it would be more clear to say that he would have won by having the last turn. 
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Hello.  Name's Bruce.  It's all right.  I understand.  Why trust a shark, right?

Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?

lespeutere

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2012, 12:08:06 pm »
+1

Lespeutere beats A_S00 4-3 in the first round.

Gotta run now, but I'll edit this with better formatting and commentary later.

Thanks to Lespeutere for the games; lotsa fun!

I'll give commentary first (and it's still lespeutere, btw, no capitals to be found ;-)):

lespeutere - A_S00 1-0
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/03/game-20120203-071239-70606133.html
Firstly, we used the required cards but then found platinum/colony on the board. We we not sure whether we were supposed not to play with them so we agreed on just ignoring them and treating it as a 'normal' province board.
I kind of like protecting my deck first. So I get WT in turns 2, 5 and 6. My idea is a combination of university/hamlet for +actions and hand reduction and then drawing with WT, nothing really new. A_S00 skips university, leaving me in the position to control ending on piles while going for a familiar that strikes twice (turns 9 and 18) only in the entire game. Somewhen midgame I add a familiar to my deck, hitting him 3 times. I have a steward for trashing and +2$, draw lots of cards with WT and caravan, too (which was kind of overlooked in the initial analyses, I think), and end it on 3piling with a comfortable lead.

lespeutere - A_S00 1-1
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/03/game-20120203-072028-e20173b1.html
This was our REAL cursing game: sea hag and no real defense around. So we both start SH/silver and unfortunately (for me ;-)), A_S00 hits 6 on turn 3. That's been essentially it, just compare the number of golds in our decks in the end: 6 vs. 1 in his favour. And then he manages to make me discard my SH with his. However, we split 5/5 in curses but he's far in front with his money. I stick to caravans which was not the best idea, I think, but it's hard to imagine a way for me to come back. Well, and finally I miscalculate for the fairgrounds but that doesn't hurt anyways.

lespeutere - A_S00 2-1
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/03/game-20120203-073054-303ebf86.html
As I said: I like deck protection so I get quite some light houses (6 vs. 2, in total) to save me from his witches. We both open LH/potion and while I get a university first, he sticks to apothecaries. With that he's able to get KC in turn 7 and I feel way behind now. Without +buy, however, I start appreciating university quite a bit gaining me some apprentices letting me draw and trash more than he is able to. I finally manage to get a KC, too, which gets me some +actions with great hall or apprentice and finally I can win it with a comfortable lead.

lespeutere - A_S00 2-2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/03/game-20120203-073832-f6c60dcd.html
I thought governor would be really really fast, so I skip bishop for a silver/silver opening. Unfortunately, he manages to get a 5-1 province lead until I have my mega turn which could've gained me more than 2 provinces and 4 duchies. He wins by (6 VP) appr. the VP he gained with bishop (8 VP).

lespeutere - A_S00 3-2
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/03/game-20120203-074612-194a1363.html
The tournament game. I see things running against me when he gets his province first in turn 10. We both grab 1 mountebank each and then go for minions if he hit 5, for tournaments if we have 4. However, since our decks are pretty big, this doesn't matter too much, I get my province on turn 12 just before my reshuffling. The second I get on turn 16 just before my next reshuffling. Then I get my part of luck in this match: on turn 17 (just after reshuffling) I hit a province with my tournament, think, take trusty steed over followers, take +cards, +actions just to hit the other province and get followers, too. Here, this game is decided. I buy my third province this turn and can finish easily.

lespeutere - A_S00 3-3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/03/game-20120203-075154-f50ba5a1.html
This one feels a bit unlucky for me after a good start. I try my luck with nomad's camp on turn 1 and indeed get 5 on turn 2 by that, letting me gain an embassy (and after his reshuffling). We get some tunnels then (me 2 in the beginning, he 3), discard them with embassies, I get another embassy. But I never manage to draw FV and and embassy together, always letting me draw dead. So he gets more golds (although it's only 8 vs. 7 in the end in his favour) and, more significantly: banks (3 vs. 1). So this was much it. I start buying colonies earlier and have the lead, none of us breaks PCR cause the other's leading right then, so we start province dancing until we have 2 left. In between especially I don't hit enough money since I draw embassies when I play embassy (at least, from what I remember) and finally he's got two strong turns and two bad turns gaining him 2 colonies and one tunnel and the win.

lespeutere - A_S00 4-3
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/03/game-20120203-080316-41c69263.html
This one I'm a bit proud of since I feel like I learned my lesson from the match vs Wandering Winder in the dominionstrategy tournament to not always run for the biggest green out there. So without +action and only trade route for +buy I decide to go for minions and grab provinces instead of colonies as money only hurts in a minion deck and I don't see any other strategy here, deciding it's much harder to win on colonies with minions only. Could've been BM with embassy though which looks shiny but with minions (literally) on the other hand there is some risk there, too. So I think A_S00's mistake here is to buy the embassy first and then going for minions. Now, he himself will discard his hand down to 4 once in a while. But he cannot let me take all the minions, either. So I buy provinces once minions are gone, grab some treasuries as cantrips with money, completely ignore gold and platinum and have 11 on turn 22 with one province but 6 colonies left. After some minutes of calculation (it was not THAT difficult, actually, but I wanted to be REALLY sure :-)) I bought the last province to gain me this decisive 4-3 win.

Thanks to A_S00 for this tight match and good luck in whatever tournament comes next!
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yuma

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2012, 05:37:39 pm »
0

(Edit: 4-1 to Rabid)  Rabid 2, Yuma 0  To be finished later in the week, Yuma had to go to work.


Man, playing against Rabid was super intimidating as he had thoroughly beat me in the first round of last tournament and while I feel I have improved a lot since then there is still a large gap between him and me. I made a lot of mistakes and often an extremely key mistake during the buy phase that hurt me a lot. Rabid is a great player who seems to rarely make those kind of mistakes. To say the least, I learned a lot from playing him.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-121431-537af475.html
I think I won this on the back of start player + familiar, for a controlled 3 pile finish.


To add to this, a key mistake on my part was buying a third Familiar--with only two or three curses left--instead of a university. Rabid also used Watchtower much more effectively--that is one card I have a really hard time synergizing.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/02/game-20120202-122404-def4d631.html

Interesting game, 5/2 start for me with the options of: Margrave, Ghost Ship, City, Saboteur, with Joat on the board in a colony game. I went for Margrave into alchemist, but I think Joat / Nothing might have been better. I was way behind in mid game so planned to empty Alchemist to power up the City's, then got some lucky draws for the come back.


This game's key mistake was buying a second jack. I feel the first one really helped me get to an early lead. But the second one just cluttered up my hand too much.



Game 3:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-090549-e09f4d2e.html
Yuma opens Embassey | embargo (to prevent me from going Scrying pool), to my Salvager | Silver.
Yuma gets unlucky and keeps drawing the embargo dead, I win with BM+ Salvager.


That embargo kept coming up at the wrong time. I am glad I bought it but had a hard time with it. I think if I played this over again, on turn 7 I would play the embargo forgoing playing an embassy to buy another embassy. I would also not buy a second salvager, not sure why I did in the first place.



Game 4:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-091612-1023bb53.html
For what I hope is the last time, (but know it wont be) I under estimate Duke.

I was pretty ecstatic to finally win a game. Only my second ever victory over Rabid. Feast/Festival seemed to make sense in my head and it actually worked out pretty well. My deck started to stall out super bad toward the end, but I had enough of a lead that it didn't matter. 8 point Dukes are great.

Game 5:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/04/game-20120204-092529-7e9597dc.html
Sea hag into slow gardens
I guess I win this mostly due to start player, winning the curse war 6 - 4.

I didn't think of this game as a garden game from the beginning. I wonder if it would have been advantageous for me to go along my own strategy rather than to follow behind trying to catch up in gardens? I couldn't make up my mind and ended up buying some duchies when I should have bought gardens as a result.

All in all, I enjoy playing against Rabid, but I hope to not have to face him in the next tournament unless it is in a much later round.
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michaeljb

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2012, 10:33:45 pm »
0

michaeljb beats Marcus316 4-1

Game 1: michaeljb 33 - 26 Marcus316
Caravan, Embargo, Familiar, Hamlet, Merchant Ship, Moneylender, Steward, Torturer, University, Watchtower
I wanted to avoid Familiar, and imagined a Torturer engine was feasible. I opened Moneylender/Steward, hoping to get slim down and transition into University/Torturer.  That didn't really work out as planned, as my opening buys collided on Turn 3, and the first time I actually played a Torturer was on Turn 11 and all 10 Curses were already in my deck. Diligent trashing with the Steward (played 10 times throughout the game, the first 9 for trashing, and once for the coin on my final turn) helped get my deck back under control, and my Universities were crucial in building draw power, and money--I ended up with piles of Caravans, Torturers, and Merchant Ships.
Marcus wasn't as successful at getting his deck slimmed down or building a strong engine, and I managed to pull out the win.

Game 2: michaeljb 31 - 24 Marcus316
Ambassador, Bazaar, Conspirator, Crossroads, Develop, Great Hall, Herbalist, Lookout, Throne Room, Tournament
This board has me all kinds of excited--it's perfect for Double Ambassador --> Engine. Bazaar/Conspirator/Throne Room with Crossroads+Great Hall for a little real (handsize-increasing, that is) drawing power, plus a late Tournament for an extra boost and an Herbalist thrown in for the +Buy. I open Ambassador/Ambassador, but got a little careless and worked my deck down to a mere 2 Coppers, and had to slowly build back up. In the end I managed to build the engine I was hoping for, though in retrospect Bazaar may not have been necessary, considering Crossroads and Throne Room+Conspirator. (edit: I've changed my mind again, I do think Bazaar was important, having a sure cantrip is great for Conspirator, though of course this wasn't really Bazaar's strongest environment)
Marcus went for Tournaments from the start, eventually winning the first one, but making the mistake of taking Followers, which in the end saved me having to buy the Curse for my Ambassadors (though since I did have Herbalist, I would have had the spare Buy anyway). My final turn saw my only Tournament play, which gave me just enough to buy the last 2 Provinces and the win.
One of my favorite (though admittedly a little mean) Ambassador game events happened--my total deck size was 25 cards, and my opponent's total number of junk cards (Coppers, Curses and Estates) was 26.

Game 3: michaeljb 48 - 42 Marcus316
Bank, Bishop, Council Room, Great Hall, Hamlet, Jester, Mine, Oasis, Spy, Transmute
Contrary to the more complex engines from the first 2 games, I figured 1 or 2 Council Rooms+Banks+Hamlets was the way to go. Marcus focused on Bishops, and ended with a nice pile of VP chips--24. I did open with a Bishop, figuring that getting the Estates out of the way would help out CR+Bank, but I'm not sure straight up CR+Money wouldn't have been best. In the end, I edged out the win; Marcus ended up Bishoping away all his Treasure and couldn't keep up.

Game 4: michaeljb 27 - 30 Marcus316
Cache, Festival, Fortune Teller, Jester, Navigator, Pearl Diver, Trader, Treasure Map, Warehouse, Worker's Village
Warehouse/Treasure Map looked like the way to go, and away we went. Marcus found the Treasure on Turn 6, I found it Turn 7. We each ended with 3 Warehouses, I had a Jester, and he had a Festival and Worker's Village. Those other buys were pretty ineffectual, not really doing much for either of us. The key play was Marcus's Turn 14 Duchy, following PPR. I broke PPR the following turn and ended with the loss.

Game 5: michaeljb 39 - 32 Marcus316
Ambassador, Apothecary, Chapel, Coppersmith, Embargo, Highway, Ill-Gotten Gains, Loan, Stables, Trade Route
The first thing I notice is that I want to Embargo IGG. Apart from that, I'm unsure how to proceed--no great engine for Ambassador to transition to (since Stables and Apothecary want to keep Coppers around), Highway's only support is Trade Route, nothing to thrilling for Chapel to do. Despite Highway's lack of support, I decide to try for a Stables engine with some Highways thrown in and Trade Route for my terminal action. I opened Embargo/Trade Route, and as in Game 1, my opening buys collide. My first priority is shutting out IGG, so I played the Embargo. After we've each picked up a Stables, Marcus Embargoed them, shutting down my plans.
We end up with similar and simple decks, and noticing the number of turns again, looks like we both played somewhat sub-optimally.
And looking at this I just noticed a combo which I think is stronger than what we actually did: Apothecary+Coppersmith. Oh well.

Overall, it was a fun series, and it was pretty cool playing a tailor-made setup. Thanks again to Marcus316 for playing!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 10:54:04 pm by michaeljb »
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olneyce

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rspeer

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Re: IsoDom 3 Round 1
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2012, 10:59:02 am »
0

rspeer defeats Smartie, 4-1.

Game 1: Smartie 16 - rspeer 37. I didn't do any experimenting with this set before playing it. For one thing, I don't know if simulating is acceptable in this tournament. (Is it?) For another thing, I doubt it would have helped, as the value of these cards seemed to be entirely in how you played them in the situation.

I proposed the game and neglected to use identical starting hands, a rule we used in subsequent games. I got 5/2 and opened Torturer/Hamlet. Smartie opened Potion/Steward, going for Familiars, of course. With stewards and watchtowers trashing effectively in both of our decks, I decided that both Torturers and Familiars would be ineffective, and focused on getting +cards and money and getting provinces early and often. 1-0.

Game 2: Smartie 31 - rspeer 41. A Jack game with Tournaments. I deviated from DoubleJack by buying a tournament (and smartie deviated further). I don't know whether it was a good idea, but I did win. I only ever used the Tournament to gain Duchies, given the length of the game. 2-0.

Game 3: Smartie 29 - rspeer 37. A Mountebank-centered game seemed like a good time to go for Silk Road as a source of victory. I might have been wrong about this, however. I first went for Islands, but I only ended up with 2 Silk Roads worth 3 VP each when the provinces ran out. I also had a Scheme that was totally pointless except for a couple of times that it replaced my mountebank. I'm not sure why I won except for the bare fact of having more VP in my deck. 3-0.

Game 4: Smartie wins. I forgot to save the log. I had a nice KC/Scheme combo going, but I trashed too much with Spice Merchant and simply didn't buy victory points fast enough. 3-1.

Game 5: rspeer 32 - Smartie 16. The best cards on this board (by which I pretty much mean Hunting Party) were non-terminal, so I decided I could get away with trying a Noble Brigand. It stole a silver the moment I got it, and that advantage may have been enough to give me the win. 4-1.

Thanks for the games, Smartie, it was fun.
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