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Author Topic: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Game Over - Mafia Win!  (Read 129127 times)

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gkrieg13

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #325 on: June 06, 2016, 06:13:48 pm »

Also, some more setup talk. I feel we should address the partner requests thing. I feel like it will be best if everyone picks their highest scumread, because scum-town neighborhoods are much better if they're lovers.

Don't we want more scum/scum partnerships?
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Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #326 on: June 06, 2016, 06:28:43 pm »

OK so here's me trying to put something more concrete down about iguana.

Ced will come shortly.

My thoughts on II centre around the fact that he's being way too analytical; I do not expect iguana to be this analytical in his style.  Maybe this is his conscious effort to change his style.  But scum can hide behind that.  I'm talking about posts like this:
Actually delaying information until the correct time to reveal it is always the best play, and we often do not observe that on this forum.

In this case, talking a lot about how scum should act just gives scum a better idea of how they should act and allows them to know what we anticipate them doing before they do it.
Another thing to possibly discuss would be whether or not we should observe some kind of proxy voting system. We have to vote together, but if people disagree they could put proxy votes on different people and we could tally the votes.

OTOH, the only time we observed a system like this is when silverscum used it to lead the town to destruction in Trees mafia, and made sure to get a bad no-lynch through that way.

So I'm conflicted.

That's just a general feeling.  Actually outright scummy things he's done:

Gather the wagons.
I want to hear his true motivation for these careless RVS votes. I want to hear something that comes from his heart of hearts.
This is the kind of highly emotive stuff that looks great at first sight and works well for people trying to look towny, but actually means essentially nothing.  Perfect scum chat.

He also has a big thing about Faust, where he pushes him really hard for inadequately-explained reasons:

I highly approve of this wagon on Faust. I've never seen a scummier D1 for him.
Voting for reactions... not necessarily scummy for silver

kinda scummy for Faust tho

Let's kill Faust
and then totally flip-flops on him later on.  Again not for any reason I can actually tell.  It's weird.

Finally, this:
I guess ADK and I don't really have anything in our QT, so I wasn't sure how everyone was using theirs.

I told ced about everyone's meta.
So he's the one who told ced I'm super analytical?  It would be townier to be more accurate than that - I get more analytical as games go on but I almost never contribute anything actually useful D1, despite my best efforts.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #327 on: June 06, 2016, 06:31:22 pm »

Also, some more setup talk. I feel we should address the partner requests thing. I feel like it will be best if everyone picks their highest scumread, because scum-town neighborhoods are much better if they're lovers.

Don't we want more scum/scum partnerships?

I don't think so. One scum/scum neighborhood comes at the expense of one town/town neighborhood. Let n be the number of living players. Assume they are lovers, which is the only case that makes a difference and should have the same probability for both. We will have a 2/n chance to hit 2 scum and a 2/n chance to hit 2 town (that is, if we do lynch claimed lovers). Okay, hitting 2 scum is better than hitting 2 town.

But! Scum, at night, has an additional 2/(n-s) chance to hit 2 town (s is the number of living scumsters). That's also pretty bad.

Overall, scum has 2 shots at getting the lovers killed, we only have one. Thus I believe we don't want scum/scum neighborhoods.
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faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #328 on: June 06, 2016, 06:34:53 pm »

So he's the one who told ced I'm super analytical?  It would be townier to be more accurate than that - I get more analytical as games go on but I almost never contribute anything actually useful D1, despite my best efforts.

Man, please. If you put something like that at the end of your case, it just invalidates everything. Do you seriously think that iguana would alter the way he describes your meta based on his alignment?
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faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #329 on: June 06, 2016, 06:35:54 pm »

Also weird is not scummy. More often than not, weird is towny.
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Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #330 on: June 06, 2016, 06:40:51 pm »

OK so with ced, not actually much to say.  He is actilurking really hard for a big part of the game.

Then there's a period where he only asks people questions, rather than actually contributing any of his own thoughts?  I always find that kind of thing kinda scummy, but I probably shouldn't I guess.  It's a town playstyle for some people.  Like this:
Unvote iguanaiguana

But in the end, my vote wasn't bad at all because it got us from RVS to you actually voicing a read and give people something to work with.

Was this your goal at the time of the vote?

While we're at it, how do people feel about faust's vote on awaclus? I can't say I'm a big fan of that either.

Since you're prompting the discussion, do you have anything more to say on the awaclus vote yourself?

You know that there are QTs to discuss this sort of thing, yes?

What sort of thing are you referring to?

When he starts contributing, there's a fair amount of pushing of faust that goes on. 

Maybe I just disagree strongly enough on that point to find people scummy for it.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #331 on: June 06, 2016, 06:41:26 pm »

So he's the one who told ced I'm super analytical?  It would be townier to be more accurate than that - I get more analytical as games go on but I almost never contribute anything actually useful D1, despite my best efforts.

Man, please. If you put something like that at the end of your case, it just invalidates everything. Do you seriously think that iguana would alter the way he describes your meta based on his alignment?
Dude, it was an interesting thing that I noted.  Not exactly the cornerstone of my case.  There's no way you can claim that it invalidates the rest of the case.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Haddock

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #332 on: June 06, 2016, 06:43:38 pm »

And also, yes I could kinda picture that happening in a private QT, where there's noone to call him out on it. 
He wouldn't necessarily have to make a conscious decision to change it. 

It's more that a towny person asked to describe a meta would likely go to more lengths to cover weird details.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

faust

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #333 on: June 06, 2016, 06:48:53 pm »

So he's the one who told ced I'm super analytical?  It would be townier to be more accurate than that - I get more analytical as games go on but I almost never contribute anything actually useful D1, despite my best efforts.

Man, please. If you put something like that at the end of your case, it just invalidates everything. Do you seriously think that iguana would alter the way he describes your meta based on his alignment?
Dude, it was an interesting thing that I noted.  Not exactly the cornerstone of my case.  There's no way you can claim that it invalidates the rest of the case.
It's an impression thing. If this comes last, then it's the last thing I remember, and the last thing I remember now is some weaksauce argument that I don't argee with. So that is how I remember your case, unless I go back and reread it (which I did, no worries).
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #334 on: June 06, 2016, 06:59:56 pm »

Oh hai Haddock. We have some misunderstandings with each other here. Let's deal with them.

OK so here's me trying to put something more concrete down about iguana.

Ced will come shortly.

My thoughts on II centre around the fact that he's being way too analytical; I do not expect iguana to be this analytical in his style.  Maybe this is his conscious effort to change his style.  But scum can hide behind that.  I'm talking about posts like this:
Actually delaying information until the correct time to reveal it is always the best play, and we often do not observe that on this forum.

In this case, talking a lot about how scum should act just gives scum a better idea of how they should act and allows them to know what we anticipate them doing before they do it.
Another thing to possibly discuss would be whether or not we should observe some kind of proxy voting system. We have to vote together, but if people disagree they could put proxy votes on different people and we could tally the votes.

OTOH, the only time we observed a system like this is when silverscum used it to lead the town to destruction in Trees mafia, and made sure to get a bad no-lynch through that way.

So I'm conflicted.


Nothing to say about this. You quoted some quotes where I was trying to solve the game and then called them scummy. Lawl.
Quote

That's just a general feeling.  Actually outright scummy things he's done:

Gather the wagons.
I want to hear his true motivation for these careless RVS votes. I want to hear something that comes from his heart of hearts.
This is the kind of highly emotive stuff that looks great at first sight and works well for people trying to look towny, but actually means essentially nothing.  Perfect scum chat.

He also has a big thing about Faust, where he pushes him really hard for inadequately-explained reasons:

I highly approve of this wagon on Faust. I've never seen a scummier D1 for him.
Voting for reactions... not necessarily scummy for silver

kinda scummy for Faust tho

Let's kill Faust
and then totally flip-flops on him later on.  Again not for any reason I can actually tell.  It's weird.


My reasoning here is simple: I love a Faust lynch. It makes me excited because it's really hard to accomplish. It brings out my emotions. This is mainly because of RMM28, where he just really got me excited for that scum!Faust lynch I was never able to pull off. So of course when we are on the border of the RVS stage, I am inclined to drive a Faust lynch, especially when I see some signs to indicate that it might be the right move.

Now, you say I flip-flip on him later on "not for any reason [you] can actually tell." This is strange, because I dropped my vote after Faust town-slipped. Everyone (I believe) dropped their vote on Faust at that point.  So claiming that I did so 'for no reason' looks absurdly similar to bold-faced lying.

Finally, this:
I guess ADK and I don't really have anything in our QT, so I wasn't sure how everyone was using theirs.

I told ced about everyone's meta.
So he's the one who told ced I'm super analytical?  It would be townier to be more accurate than that - I get more analytical as games go on but I almost never contribute anything actually useful D1, despite my best efforts.
[/quote]

I told ced this: "Gkrieg, Haddock & ADK are more just normal solvy type players that you would expect to find in a mafia game."

From that, ced inferred that you are "quite analytical," a phrase I did not in fact say. I said you were "solvy" IE: competent. From "quite analytical" you misconstrued further into "super analytical." That phrase was in fact your own invention.  Again, manipulative.

Are you and ced both scum then, and in which order ought we kill you?
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

silverspawn

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #335 on: June 06, 2016, 07:04:38 pm »

vote: iguana

iguanaiguana

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #336 on: June 06, 2016, 07:04:56 pm »

And also, yes I could kinda picture that happening in a private QT, where there's noone to call him out on it. 
He wouldn't necessarily have to make a conscious decision to change it. 

It's more that a towny person asked to describe a meta would likely go to more lengths to cover weird details.

 :'( :'( :'( :'(

These are my tears on your behalf for how hurt your feelings are now that you know I didn't tell ced about any of your quirks.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #337 on: June 06, 2016, 07:05:49 pm »

vote: iguana

This is so crazy. If anything, vote me for what I said right after you voted me. That's when I was being lynchbait.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

silverspawn

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #338 on: June 06, 2016, 07:25:58 pm »

I'm not interested in lynch bait, though.

I'll take a page out of Awaclus' meta here and don't explain myself.

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #339 on: June 06, 2016, 07:29:54 pm »

Well, you are wasting your time voting a town, and it is very annoying to me.

I am flippant in every game where I am town. I make off-hand comments with no regard for my own life, overuse emojis, and do all sorts of other nonsense that makes most scum and a few town scumread me like every time.

Where was I ever polite and nice to others and analytical and solvy and heartfelt the whole way through? Oh yeah, I remember, that one game where I was scum!

This is my town meta people. I am a town.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #340 on: June 06, 2016, 07:36:37 pm »

Vote: iguana
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Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #341 on: June 06, 2016, 10:47:46 pm »

And there isn't going to be a better case if discussion doesn't happen. Lack of discussion is lack of information, and that is what scum wants!
Vote: Seprix

Terrible, terrible vote.
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #342 on: June 06, 2016, 10:51:51 pm »

vote: iguana

Vote: iguana

Even more terrible, terrible votes. If you're playing like Awaclus, you're playing like scum.
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #343 on: June 06, 2016, 10:53:46 pm »

It seems everyone wants Faust dead today! ADK, II...
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #344 on: June 06, 2016, 10:56:41 pm »

It seems everyone wants Faust dead today! ADK, II...

This seems like kind of a non-sequitur. Almost like you meant to post it somewhere else.
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Seprix

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #345 on: June 06, 2016, 11:15:54 pm »

It seems everyone wants Faust dead today! ADK, II...

This seems like kind of a non-sequitur. Almost like you meant to post it somewhere else.

Yes, sorry. Other game.
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #346 on: June 06, 2016, 11:48:33 pm »

vote: iguana

Vote: iguana

Even more terrible, terrible votes. If you're playing like Awaclus, you're playing like scum.

I mean, my reaction to Haddock was pretty terrible. I could see how someone would read it and think that it came from scum.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #347 on: June 06, 2016, 11:49:18 pm »

vote: iguana

Vote: iguana

Even more terrible, terrible votes. If you're playing like Awaclus, you're playing like scum.

I mean, my reaction to Haddock was pretty terrible. I could see how someone would read it and think that it came from scum.

Feeling town on Awaclus and ss actually for these votes.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #348 on: June 07, 2016, 12:03:36 am »

vote: iguana

Way to much "I can see why you're voting for me!"
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Re: Mafia 82: Speed-Dating Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #349 on: June 07, 2016, 12:24:15 am »

vote: iguana

Way to much "I can see why you're voting for me!"

Sure I can see that ^^
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.
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