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[ced]

But in the end, my vote wasn't bad at all because it got us from RVS to you actually voicing a read and give people something to work with.

Was this your goal at the time of the vote?

Yes.

Cool.
Was there any reaction in particular you envisioned for your vote?
Also, did you consider your RR vote "bad" when you placed it? Since that's what I read from your earlier interactions with ADK.

Coordinating your coupled vote. Obviously that's only going to be important once we approach the deadline.

Sure, that's probably a good idea.

[faust]

Cool.
Was there any reaction in particular you envisioned for your vote?
Also, did you consider your RR vote "bad" when you placed it? Since that's what I read from your earlier interactions with ADK.

Well, I did think some people might immediately join in, because RR's post was somewhat of a "classic" scumtell. I wanted to see who that was. I thought some might oppose it because RR is considered an easy mislynch for scum. I thought it would be interesting on which side of this people would end up.

I don't and didn't think the vote was bad though. I mean, I didn't think RR was particularly scummy there, but if at that point I had to choose someone to die, it would probably have been RR.

[ced]

Cool.
Was there any reaction in particular you envisioned for your vote?
Also, did you consider your RR vote "bad" when you placed it? Since that's what I read from your earlier interactions with ADK.

Well, I did think some people might immediately join in, because RR's post was somewhat of a "classic" scumtell. I wanted to see who that was. I thought some might oppose it because RR is considered an easy mislynch for scum. I thought it would be interesting on which side of this people would end up.

I don't and didn't think the vote was bad though. I mean, I didn't think RR was particularly scummy there, but if at that point I had to choose someone to die, it would probably have been RR.

Alright, here is what I'm thinking:

So, you vote RR, then other people react in their own ways. ADK votes for you, and he is who you choose to respond to. Now, I don't like your responses here for a couple reasons:

-Firstly, some of your responses come across as prewrapped. Particularly #132, #135 and #137. ADK is calling your vote bad, and you're responding with non-answers. I'd expect a townie to at least have some conviction when defending their vote, but here it feels like you're conceding the point that your vote could be seen as bad. Feels very disingenuous. Your response above is the same sort of thing: "if I had to choose"

-The second requires a little context. In #151 you move your vote from RR to Awaclus*. Now, I don't begrudge the vote itself - Awaclus seems to be making a pointed effort to not contribute - though the unanswerable meta argument portion of your reason is uninspired.
There's more than that, though. In the above quote you mention that you were looking for people who would immediately join you in voting for RR, amongst other things. You got such a person in Silverspawn (#111). You do acknowledge this vote at the very least, both immediately and again in conversation with ADK. In #131 you draw ADK's attention to it, then in the second line of #134 you suggest that it's a worse vote than yours. It's very deflectionary. There's not a lot of interest on your part to follow up with Silverspawn (as evidenced by your Awaclus vote) but wouldn't it be nice if ADK and others could look at Silverspawn for you?

Vote faust


*without unvoting first. I consider this a minor scumtell sometimes, but to some people it's a force of habit so whatever.

[Awaclus]

*without unvoting first. I consider this a minor scumtell sometimes, but to some people it's a force of habit so whatever.

Nobody unvotes here.

[ced]

*without unvoting first. I consider this a minor scumtell sometimes, but to some people it's a force of habit so whatever.

Nobody unvotes here.

Well, I will start the revolution.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 1.2

silverspawn (0): Awaclus, Roadrunner, Seprix
Roadrunner(0): silverspawn, Joseph
faust (2): ADK, iguana, ced
Awaclus (0): faust

Not voting (3): gkrieg, Jimmmmm, Haddock
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Day ends Saturday, June 11th at 1 p.m.

[faust]

-Firstly, some of your responses come across as prewrapped. Particularly #132, #135 and #137. ADK is calling your vote bad, and you're responding with non-answers. I'd expect a townie to at least have some conviction when defending their vote, but here it feels like you're conceding the point that your vote could be seen as bad. Feels very disingenuous. Your response above is the same sort of thing: "if I had to choose"

I am not conceding any kind of point. My vote was not bad. It was good, as we all should see now, given the amount of discussion it sparked. silver can testify that I said I did not find RR particularly scummy, and that it was a vote for reactions, right after the vote, before any accusations started. That doesn't make it bad. I don't even know what you're talking about with "non-answers". You point out #132 and #135 as "non-answers". Well uh what should I tell you? They are non-answers; the answers to ADK's questions are in the posts right above these. I guess I could see your point on #137; I could have made it clearer that ADK's narrative there was wrong.

-The second requires a little context. In #151 you move your vote from RR to Awaclus*. Now, I don't begrudge the vote itself - Awaclus seems to be making a pointed effort to not contribute - though the unanswerable meta argument portion of your reason is uninspired.
There's more than that, though. In the above quote you mention that you were looking for people who would immediately join you in voting for RR, amongst other things. You got such a person in Silverspawn (#111). You do acknowledge this vote at the very least, both immediately and again in conversation with ADK. In #131 you draw ADK's attention to it, then in the second line of #134 you suggest that it's a worse vote than yours. It's very deflectionary. There's not a lot of interest on your part to follow up with Silverspawn (as evidenced by your Awaclus vote) but wouldn't it be nice if ADK and others could look at Silverspawn for you?

Vote faust


*without unvoting first. I consider this a minor scumtell sometimes, but to some people it's a force of habit so whatever.

Then, the "deflecting". I certainly don't think silverspawn is scummy - in fact, he made it quite clear in our QT that he was voting for reactions just as much as I did -  but I did think it curious that ADK singled me out there. He never really answered why. I wanted to put pressure on ADK there, because I don't think his vote on me was very good.

[EFHW]

Dating QTs will be made available to the speccy

[SirMartin]

/tag

[ced]

I am not conceding any kind of point. My vote was not bad. It was good, as we all should see now, given the amount of discussion it sparked. silver can testify that I said I did not find RR particularly scummy, and that it was a vote for reactions, right after the vote, before any accusations started. That doesn't make it bad. I don't even know what you're talking about with "non-answers". You point out #132 and #135 as "non-answers". Well uh what should I tell you? They are non-answers; the answers to ADK's questions are in the posts right above these. I guess I could see your point on #137; I could have made it clearer that ADK's narrative there was wrong.

Then, the "deflecting". I certainly don't think silverspawn is scummy - in fact, he made it quite clear in our QT that he was voting for reactions just as much as I did -  but I did think it curious that ADK singled me out there. He never really answered why. I wanted to put pressure on ADK there, because I don't think his vote on me was very good.

Well I think the main thing here is hearing whether silverspawn can corroborate what you've said, especially if it's something you said right after making the vote.
Meanwhile I'd rather not get too caught up in a semantics argument, but the "posts right above [#132 and #135]" are the posts I'd highlighted as examples of deflection.
Speaking of which, I wasn't expecting you to overtly show suspicion of silverspawn, especially not after I've called you on it. I'm interested in what exactly brought you to say what you did in e.g. #134 (i.e. that you think the second vote is worse than the first).

[Roadrunner7671]

Joseph needs to move his vote.

[iguanaiguana]

Roadrunner needs to think about someone other than himself.

[iguanaiguana]

Roadrunner is a town I believe.

[iguanaiguana]

It's not a random vote. It's voting Awaclus for perpetuating a discussion that does nothing to advance our game state. I don't think Joseph was scummy for starting it, but I do think that for Awaclus, acting this way is trying to imitate his meta.

That's not my meta, that's my personality. I don't have to try to imitate it.

I disagree that your personality would tend towards "perpetuating a discussion that does nothing to advance our game state." My read on your personality is that you do not participate in discussions in games unless you believe they advance your win-con.

Am I wrong?

I also disagree that you've said anything that looks like "trying to imitate your meta," except possibly this last post.

[Roadrunner7671]

Roadrunner needs to think about someone other than himself.

I'm thinking about Joseph.

He needs to move his vote because I'm obviously not going to self vote so he's just handicapping me (and him) and we need all the votes we can get.

[Awaclus]

I disagree that your personality would tend towards "perpetuating a discussion that does nothing to advance our game state." My read on your personality is that you do not participate in discussions in games unless you believe they advance your win-con.

Am I wrong?

Not entirely, but yes. I can see why you would reach that conclusion, because it is true that I always play for the win and that I think it's generally always a good idea to withhold information from your opponents when possible, and my actions in the games I play surely reflect that. However, it's really just about withholding information from the enemy team, it's not that I don't want to participate in discussions.

On the contrary, whenever I have an opinion, I like to express it. I don't think this should be surprising to anyone at this point. In this particular case, I wanted to say that I think the American spelling of color makes more sense than the British one, and there wasn't really a good reason to not say it, so I went ahead and said it.

[ced]

I'm thinking about Joseph.

He needs to move his vote because I'm obviously not going to self vote so he's just handicapping me (and him) and we need all the votes we can get.

I don't think we should worry about votes not counting til we get near the deadline. For now, just pretend the virtual votecount is the real one.

[Joseph2302]

Roadrunner needs to think about someone other than himself.

I'm thinking about Joseph.

He needs to move his vote because I'm obviously not going to self vote so he's just handicapping me (and him) and we need all the votes we can get.

I'm away, will catch up tomorrow/Monday.
And by exactly the same logic, RR voting for me would do nothing.

[Roadrunner7671]

Roadrunner needs to think about someone other than himself.

I'm thinking about Joseph.

He needs to move his vote because I'm obviously not going to self vote so he's just handicapping me (and him) and we need all the votes we can get.

I'm away, will catch up tomorrow/Monday.
And by exactly the same logic, RR voting for me would do nothing.

That's why I'm not voting for you!

[faust]

Speaking of which, I wasn't expecting you to overtly show suspicion of silverspawn, especially not after I've called you on it. I'm interested in what exactly brought you to say what you did in e.g. #134 (i.e. that you think the second vote is worse than the first).

It's kinda a mafia "common wisdom" that the second vote is scummier than the first, as in it's easier to hop on a wagon than to create one. By such logic, ADK should be voting for silver over me. He's not, and I want to know why.

[Seprix]

Speaking of which, I wasn't expecting you to overtly show suspicion of silverspawn, especially not after I've called you on it. I'm interested in what exactly brought you to say what you did in e.g. #134 (i.e. that you think the second vote is worse than the first).

It's kinda a mafia "common wisdom" that the second vote is scummier than the first, as in it's easier to hop on a wagon than to create one. By such logic, ADK should be voting for silver over me. He's not, and I want to know why.

You are overreacting very much to this vote ADK gave you.

vote: Faust

My first real vote.

[Awaclus]

I want to know why.

Vote: faust

[iguanaiguana]

I highly approve of this wagon on Faust. I've never seen a scummier D1 for him.

[Seprix]

I highly approve of this wagon on Faust. I've never seen a scummier D1 for him.

Don't kill me, but I read this in Trump's voice. I don't normally have a Trump voice for you.

[Awaclus]

I highly approve of this wagon on Faust. I've never seen a scummier D1 for him.

Don't kill me, but I read this in Trump's voice. I don't normally have a Trump voice for you.

Since when has Trump "highly approved" of anything? Those words have too many syllables for him.