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[2.71828.....]

e, I have some questions for you.

Melisandre saw (correctly) that Awaclus was a PR and defended him.  Scum doesn't point that out at that critical juncture.  I am very confident that Melisandre is town.  Not lynching today.

1. Prove Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. Yes, you cannot, and I know this, and so do you.

It is easily explainable that Melisandre was scum, so knowing Awaclus was town and defending him for town cred. He got an incredibly lucky hit when Awaclus turned out to be the most critical PR in the game. I don't think Melisandre could be explained away as town at all from this. I think you're dreaming.

The "oh we just had to get a lynch through so it wasn't scummy" is such an easy excuse.

2. So a no-lynch was better?

Yes, it completely goddamn sucks we hit Awaclus. It really does. Yes, I voted first for Awaclus. I admit his playstyle infuriated me enough to want him lynched. It wasn't the best lynch. It was a mistake. It would have been a mistake if he flipped scum even, as it was not the correct lynch. But we were running out of time to think. Town in general screwed up, and I was part of that. But the important bit is that we have some information now, at the very least.  IG is dead, and so is Awaclus. We have something to work with.

I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre. Teproc also distances himself from the lynch with his initial post, stating that he would never have approved such a thing. Like, how weird is that?

3. What do you think of Teproc?

What?

Also, just realized you might have meant Teproc when you said Melisandre.  So that last post doesn't quite have the same affect.

[2.71828.....]

I will reread Teproc now

[Seprix]

I meant Melisandre at all times. I just randomly cut to Teproc right after, so it doesn't look like it meshed well.

[Seprix]

1. Prove Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR. Yes, you cannot, and I know this, and so do you.

[other stuff Seprix posted]

I think scum was involved in the lynch. His name is Melisandre.

No.  I can't prove that Melisandre knew Awaclus was a PR.  I do think Melisandre had a good read on Awaclus [that proved to be correct] as an outsider evaluating his posts.

...when the rest of us could not tell the difference between Awaclus then and now. Because there was no difference. He does that playstyle every game. Yes, Melis could also simply be "misreading" Awaclus and it so happened to be correct, good for him.

[Seprix]

My point is that Melisandre was either right for the wrong reasons, or scum setting it all up because he knew what was going to happen. I mean, Melisandre's excuse that Awaclus was simply softclaiming PR by his playstyle was pretty weak and not really there in the first place. It feels like an excuse to not hop on the Awaclus bandwagon besides not wanting to hop on, so Melis ends up looking better.

[2.71828.....]

I will reread Teproc now

He could be scum.  Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into

[J Reggie]

I will reread Teproc now

He could be scum.  Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into

Let's not and say we did.

[Seprix]

I will reread Teproc now

He could be scum.  Let's lynch you [seprix] first then we will have a great interaction to look into

I do not advise this.

[2.71828.....]

Teproc did not feel quite as useful as he usually does.  Which, I mean, doesn't really tell us much of anything.  I don't know, he talked about meta a lot (relatively) which is an easy out for scum. 

He has a couple posts about Awaclus from D1:

Don't you want to hear my solid scum-case on Awaclus? 

You have so much time to say it. Also, before you say anything, Awaclus is the most different individual you will ever encounter in all of fd.s Mafia, and normal tactics that would touch normal people do not even affect him.

LEt's not spoil the delightful (mmmph) surprise of discovering Awaclus to our new friends, please. Same with RR really.

ADK is obvtown already, this is going great.

I'm liking this whole Seprix/melisandre thing; finding both of them townie.

See, this is what a scum read looks like. JR is concerned that the first thing he said wasn't clear enough, so he completes it to be extra clear and to make sure that everyone sees how much he's contributing to the game by stating clear reads. Town rarely thinkgs like that : town assumes you got it until you don't.

Stray thoughts :

Awaclus slightly scummy (hasn't pissed anyone off yet, feels reserved).
RR slightly townie (as much as it's possible for me to read him).
liopoil townie.

Which, I mean, aren't like amazing posts or anything.  But overall I think we have better options for the lynch out there.

[fontisian]

e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?

[J Reggie]

e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?

These kinds of questions and the answers that follow make it harder to find scum in the future.

[2.71828.....]

e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?

I think not C (at least up until the lynchee has claimed post-lynch (if they claim)).  A and B are both tricky because there are some people who don't like posting in twilight in general (I used to basically have a firm 'no posting in twilight' stance, but I have been posting in twilight more frequently recently).  I think B slightly over A.

[2.71828.....]

e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?

These kinds of questions and the answers that follow make it harder to find scum in the future.

What do you mean by this?  You mean scum will try to contrive to look one way or another based on my answers?  Good.  Scum looking contrived is a good way to catch them

[fontisian]

e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?

These kinds of questions and the answers that follow make it harder to find scum in the future.

Actually, I think it makes it easier to find scum right now.

The idea that you shouldn't ever give a read away because meta is ridiculous.

[fontisian]

e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?

I think not C (at least up until the lynchee has claimed post-lynch (if they claim)).  A and B are both tricky because there are some people who don't like posting in twilight in general (I used to basically have a firm 'no posting in twilight' stance, but I have been posting in twilight more frequently recently).  I think B slightly over A.

Ok, but you just attacked Seprix and Silver based on the idea that A is more likely than B.

[2.71828.....]

e, what do you think is more likely for scum after having successfully led a mislynch: a.on and claim they definitely got a mafia, b.stop posting or c. express regret so they won't look as bad after the flip?

I think not C (at least up until the lynchee has claimed post-lynch (if they claim)).  A and B are both tricky because there are some people who don't like posting in twilight in general (I used to basically have a firm 'no posting in twilight' stance, but I have been posting in twilight more frequently recently).  I think B slightly over A.

Ok, but you just attacked Seprix and Silver based on the idea that A is more likely than B.

yes I did.  Is there something wrong with that?  I made a rule than found an edge-case for it.  How very f.ds of me.

[2.71828.....]

So yeah, generally, I do not think scum will gloat over a lynch.  silverspawn posted a 'gotcha' before Awaclus, Seprix posted his 'gotcha' 10 seconds after Awaclus posted [probably didn't see Awaclus' post] and then immediately posted hi 'oops we hit town' 20 seconds after that.

Some people post more in twilight than others.  I think for people who do post in twilight a lot (people like Seprix and silverspawn) they will probably be more confident about their lynch as scum and more reserved and anxious as town.  Or maybe I should rethink go home and rethink my life.  anyway, sleep.

[Melisandre]

I will be online at the end of today or tomorrow (weekends are bad for me).

First I will look at the D1 lynch-wagon (I believe there were opportunistic scum taking advantage of townies who genuinely lusted for a EoD lynch). [Some scum on / some scum off - look at players who chose to watch it from afar and keep 'blood off their hands'.].

We can also look at the nature of how certain wagons were dismantled (I've calmed down now after the lynch-without-a-roleclaim; but my patience is at its limit for unexplained/unsupported "Player X is town" remarks... and uses of meta to defend someone. Sometimes certain behaviour can be objectively scummy/townie in isolation.]

[silverspawn]

so on the Melisandre issue

I agree with Seprix that the read on Awaclus can't have been more than a coincidence
I agree with e that Melisandre is towny regardless

e: I think the primary drive behind the Awaclus wagon was ADK:

Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?

which could be scum. It could be ADK hiding behind his anti-Awaclus-ness because that's not a tell for him. Problem is, it's still not a tell for him, generally.

[silverspawn]

clarification: I think Melisadnre is towny for his EoD regardles. It doesn't really matter if the Awaclus' thing really indicated a PR or not. Why post it as scum and risk to prevent that wonderful mislynch? The only good reason is WIFOM.

[silverspawn]

Seprix being super regretful about this lynch is weird. I don't think it was a bad lynch. I didn't like the alternatives. I think it's a scummy thing to fake regret; if you're town you feel justified in the moment of the lynch, but if you're scum you know you've been driving a mislynch and, well, might fake regret.

[iguanaiguana]

so on the Melisandre issue

I agree with Seprix that the read on Awaclus can't have been more than a coincidence
I agree with e that Melisandre is towny regardless

e: I think the primary drive behind the Awaclus wagon was ADK:

Who thinks we could get an awaclus Lynch cobbled together in the next ten minutes?

which could be scum. It could be ADK hiding behind his anti-Awaclus-ness because that's not a tell for him. Problem is, it's still not a tell for him, generally.

Still haven't read everything yet but this post seems on point. Why is ADK being ignored here when he was the one who started the snap-move to Awaclus?

[Haddock]

Haddock and e and Teproc need to be under more scrutiny, because they often get very strong townreads when they're scum. Haddock looked towny D1, which can be a scumtell for him.

I've played 4 scum games, two RMM.
In one normal game I was indeed a town read for most players.

In the other I was read as scum throughout d.

 In one RMM game I barely got to play.
 In the other I was found scummy to the point of nearly being lynched, saved myself with a fake claim that convinced 90% of town but then got vigged.

So you can't really conclude this at all. 

The converse is kinda true though. This is my first ever town game where I've been generally seen as town on d1.
So you kinda have a point. Why am I being town read this game? Dunno, except it's probably that I didn't contribute enough d1 and so people didn't get to see my usual hedging.

Anyhoo.
I think the seprix thing is bad. I didn't want to comment much on this yesterday because it had a big effect on fruit ninja Mafia which was ongoing.  Seprixs behaviour this game is very like his behaviour there. So I think he's likely town. I didn't want to say this earlier because it would have made my "scumread on seprix" in fruit ninja less believable.  Sorry about that.

E could maybe be scum here, seems an OK place to start.  I've never seen scum Teproc that I recall. But he seems towny.

Actually I think reggie warrants scrutiny. I think he's a terrifyingly good new player. But his comments here are similar to his scum play in fruit ninja. vote: j reggie

This is all a phone post, better stuff coming later hopefully.

[Haddock]

*"throughout d1."

[Seprix]

Seprix being super regretful about this lynch is weird. I don't think it was a bad lynch. I didn't like the alternatives. I think it's a scummy thing to fake regret; if you're town you feel justified in the moment of the lynch, but if you're scum you know you've been driving a mislynch and, well, might fake regret.

I said it sucks and we may have made a mistake. I also said what happened happened, and we still got information out of it. It's not the end of the universe for sure, but it still kind of sucks.

SS is town this game, I think. He's playing not like his scummy self.