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[Ichimaru Gin]

Interesting that RR first had to have someone else agree with him before he voted. And then  J Reggie sheeps again, classic. I know it's hard to read people now, but sheesh.

It was simple enough for everyone to understand it in one post, and it's a strong case!

The reason it's so simple is that it's dumb enough to assume I don't realize how things come off as either alignment. Only reason I posted it anyway was that I figured most people would realize that I know what I'm posting.

inb4 someone points out how defensive I'm being here and votes me just for that. It's a silly case so I'll call it as such.

inb4 someone points out how my first inb4 is clearly self-conscious scum pre-defending himself, and votes me just for that.

inb4 someone points at my second inb4 as... wait. It's not scummy anymore. It's just being aware of how people will read your posts. And wow, both alignments do that!

Also, yeah, two posts again. I'll be posting in doubles or more a lot this game, get used to it. My second post could easily have been appended to the first.

Yeah this just reads to me like you're super concerned with any possible misconstruance of your posts, even your defense of those earlier posts.
So just because you can see an accusation coming, that makes it invalid?

[liopoil]

It's kind of what you said before, and of course I read it. I think pressure on you gives us useful information, like the conversation we're having right now.
I don't always voice all my thoughts; I used to. Sometimes I won't tell people I have a scumread on them to see if they dig themselves deeper.
It's notable that you're trying to deflect suspicion to me now.

PPE: I'm not tunneling liopoil. Nice try though.

And...my internet is being stupid again.

Leaving a vote on someone other than wanting to lynch them is silly. If you want pressure that can be done with words.

I am not trying to deflect suspicion onto you. You're at null to slight town right now. I just want to hold you accountable for your actions.

[Ichimaru Gin]

It's kind of what you said before, and of course I read it. I think pressure on you gives us useful information, like the conversation we're having right now.
I don't always voice all my thoughts; I used to. Sometimes I won't tell people I have a scumread on them to see if they dig themselves deeper.
It's notable that you're trying to deflect suspicion to me now.

PPE: I'm not tunneling liopoil. Nice try though.

And...my internet is being stupid again.

Leaving a vote on someone other than wanting to lynch them is silly. If you want pressure that can be done with words.

I am not trying to deflect suspicion onto you. You're at null to slight town right now. I just want to hold you accountable for your actions.

Fair enough. I think votes are a great way to pressure people, but I actually spend a lot of games not voting anyone for a long time.

[Ichimaru Gin]

What I'm kind of hearing from you is that you thought the way you handled the question would look townie, or at least neutral; I guess people are going to "spin" your answer even if you don't answer it

Now, you're frustrated that your attempt to get out of it in the towniest way is backfiring. I think it's clear you know what you're doing.
Maybe people would suspect you no matter how you dealt with the question.

[liopoil]

Interesting that RR first had to have someone else agree with him before he voted. And then  J Reggie sheeps again, classic. I know it's hard to read people now, but sheesh.

It was simple enough for everyone to understand it in one post, and it's a strong case!

The reason it's so simple is that it's dumb enough to assume I don't realize how things come off as either alignment. Only reason I posted it anyway was that I figured most people would realize that I know what I'm posting.

inb4 someone points out how defensive I'm being here and votes me just for that. It's a silly case so I'll call it as such.

inb4 someone points out how my first inb4 is clearly self-conscious scum pre-defending himself, and votes me just for that.

inb4 someone points at my second inb4 as... wait. It's not scummy anymore. It's just being aware of how people will read your posts. And wow, both alignments do that!

Also, yeah, two posts again. I'll be posting in doubles or more a lot this game, get used to it. My second post could easily have been appended to the first.

Yeah this just reads to me like you're super concerned with any possible misconstruance of your posts, even your defense of those earlier posts.
So just because you can see an accusation coming, that makes it invalid?

Yes, in fact. If a player knows that their posts will by default come off scummy, then they have no reason to make that post as scum anymore. It turns into a ball of WIFOM. Scummy things are when a player does something which scum is more likely to do. But if something is known to be perceived as a thing scum is more likely to say, that makes it less likely for scum to say it. The only way that wasn't straight up terrible play for scum!me is if I thought it could trick you into townreading it for being bad scum play.

I say right in the quoted post that obviously I am being super self-aware of how my posts sound now. That's just not noteworthy

[liopoil]

What I'm kind of hearing from you is that you thought the way you handled the question would look townie, or at least neutral; I guess people are going to "spin" your answer even if you don't answer it

Now, you're frustrated that your attempt to get out of it in the towniest way is backfiring. I think it's clear you know what you're doing.
Maybe people would suspect you no matter how you dealt with the question.

This is what I said in my first post on the topic. Except that I didn't think it would look towny: just make people realize that the question was silly. Maybe people already realized it was silly, so I should have ignored it or whatever.

[Ichimaru Gin]

What does scum!liopoil look like? I can't recall.
Your responses are making me think it's less likely you're scum, but I'm also afraid that you're really good at fooling people. That itself isn't scummy. I'm just not sure of the key to telling when a good player is scum.

So, I guess I'll unvote.

[liopoil]

What does scum!liopoil look like? I can't recall.

Me neither, it's been a while. Anyway, thanks for thinking it through

[Ichimaru Gin]

What does scum!liopoil look like? I can't recall.

Me neither, it's been a while. Anyway, thanks for thinking it through

Aah. This makes me nervous. You scare me 

I'm sure someone will tell me what scum!lio looks like and then maybe I'll have a bit of peace of mind.

[Awaclus]

Not buying the liopoil case either.

I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.

So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.

Good post! Pretty much as good as mint to be honest.

(Translator's note: mint means mine)

[Ichimaru Gin]

Not buying the liopoil case either.

I don't see scum playing that openly. It's too easy of a target, and I don't think liopoil would screw up like that.

So you're his partner, cool. This was easier than I thought.

Good post! Pretty much as good as mint to be honest.

(Translator's note: mint means mine)

You are my honest rolemodel 

[silverspawn]

Okay? sO, lio is overly self conscious and IG votes, and then lio is being overly self-conscious and IG unvotes.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Okay? sO, lio is overly self conscious and IG votes, and then lio is being overly self-conscious and IG unvotes.

He won me over, for better or for worse. I don't think his discussion with me was overly self-conscious, his initial defense was.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So, before I leave for a camping trip:

I disagree with Lio that there's "no towny response" to RR's question, or at least as far as I'm concerned; I would have found a terse "no" or a sarcastic rejoinder at the very least null. But lio went from 0 to super nervous in no time flat. And his complaint about their being "no towny response" is indicative of a scum perspective, because as scum you're super aware of how your posts will be scrutinized.

I'm keeping my vote where it is. I'm fine if we lynch him before I get back.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.5

2.71828..... (1): gkrieg13
Seprix (2): Awaclus, silverspawn
A Drowned Kernel (2): fontisian, Seprix
Awaclus (1): Hydrad
J Reggie (1): Haddock
liopoil (5): Jan, Teproc, Roadrunner7671, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
gkrieg13 (1): 2.71828.....

Not Voting (3): Melisandre, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends June 1 at 4:30 pm forum time.

[liopoil]

So, before I leave for a camping trip:

I disagree with Lio that there's "no towny response" to RR's question, or at least as far as I'm concerned; I would have found a terse "no" or a sarcastic rejoinder at the very least null. But lio went from 0 to super nervous in no time flat. And his complaint about their being "no towny response" is indicative of a scum perspective, because as scum you're super aware of how your posts will be scrutinized.

I'm keeping my vote where it is. I'm fine if we lynch him before I get back.

I wasn't nervous at all. As I've made abundantly clear, being aware of how your posts sound is completely independent of alignment. It's frankly irresponsible not to be.

[Melisandre]

Good liopoil scum-narrative presented by Teproc via Roadrunner7671's 'Are you scum?' question:

The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !

[Nervous town or nervous scum?] Let's find out. Happy to see pressure on the liopoil slot.



Quick look at Awaclus' recent posts:

"What do you mean? You heard from me today." [Haddock asks where Awaclus was, Awaclus pops in to defend himself]

"Which is not a scum trait for me." [Teproc highlights that Awaclus is playing reserved. I.e against his town-meta. Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]

"For reference, here are my most recent scum games" [Awaclus then shares links to his recent scum games to defend himself against Teproc's observation]

"This is just bullshit. I'm always helpful as all alignments" [Haddock accuses Awaclus of being "way too helpful"/i.e an "outright scumtell". Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]

Conclusion
Awaclus is spending way too much effort/time defending his own personal town/scum meta to others. I need to see him sorting the other 15 players. Talking about yourself is pure WIFOM (null) - unless you are challenging your accusers or mis-repping you...? (Haddock/Teproc) - which I don't think you are.

[Melisandre]

 

[Melisandre]

RR seems like his classic self, which means he will reveal himself as scum on D3 (if he is scum).

Give me some examples of 'classic day 3 scum-Roadrunner7671'.

I wasn't quite sure what this meant:

fontisian and Jan are both new with melisandre, and although they haven't been as active, they still exist.  I am fine keeping it that way on D1.

I think Awaclus is very provocative, which can be frustrating...but also good.  He gets useful reactions out of people.

Can you show me examples of "provocative"-Awaclus (I have seen the opposite so far).

ADK does ADK stuff.  He could be town, but I think gkrieg is the better option right now.

This sounds contradictory. Are you town-reading ADK - why would he be an option if so?

Reggie is cool.  Let's not lynch him

Show me town-"cool".

vote: liopoil. I think we got something boys!
(or girls, or whatever pronoun you identify with)

Note that you posted after I first made those posts but only found them noteworthy after Teproc pointed out the obvious.

Looking at the votes on you: do you view Ichimaru Gin's vote the most sheepish/opportunistic?

[Roadrunner7671]

Scum D3 RR claims a PR that doesn't exist.

[fontisian]

Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?

[Awaclus]

Good liopoil scum-narrative presented by Teproc via Roadrunner7671's 'Are you scum?' question:

The second post is really what makes it scummy for me, town probably doesn't even take the time to respond to that in the first place, but liopoil cared enough to post twice about it !

[Nervous town or nervous scum?] Let's find out. Happy to see pressure on the liopoil slot.



Quick look at Awaclus' recent posts:

"What do you mean? You heard from me today." [Haddock asks where Awaclus was, Awaclus pops in to defend himself]

"Which is not a scum trait for me." [Teproc highlights that Awaclus is playing reserved. I.e against his town-meta. Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]

"For reference, here are my most recent scum games" [Awaclus then shares links to his recent scum games to defend himself against Teproc's observation]

"This is just bullshit. I'm always helpful as all alignments" [Haddock accuses Awaclus of being "way too helpful"/i.e an "outright scumtell". Awaclus pops in to defend his scum-meta]

Conclusion
Awaclus is spending way too much effort/time defending his own personal town/scum meta to others. I need to see him sorting the other 15 players. Talking about yourself is pure WIFOM (null) - unless you are challenging your accusers or mis-repping you...? (Haddock/Teproc) - which I don't think you are.

Awaclus thinks that town should explain why they're town, rather than players explain why others are or aren't town. Therefore he never gives reasons for votes.

Talking about myself is not pure WIFOM. It helps people make informed decisions about me, which I absolutely want to happen because the correct conclusion (that I'm town) is beneficial for my alignment. That is why whenever someone appears to have misinformation about me (which is apparent from the fact that they're voicing suspicion against me), I make it a top priority to explain to them why they're misinformed. If someone made a case on me and I was unable to completely defend myself against all of the points, that would actually be a good reason to lynch me — not because of the case though (it wouldn't even matter what the case was), but because of my inability to prove it false.

As far as sorting the other 15 players is concerned (scummy to towny):

Seprix
Everyone else

[gkrieg13]

Classic Awaclus there

[liopoil]

Lio, would you mind analyzing your wagon? Who do you think is the most likely to be scum on it? Who is more likely town?

I've been thinking about this and it's tough. I'll also answer meli's question. The problem is that I think all the votes are bad votes, but that completely different from coming from scum. So:

Jan: Still hasn't specified why he thinks I'm scum, really. His questions were weird and he misconstrues what my posts mean a little. So that's a bit scummy.

Teproc: Interestingly he listed me as 'towny' a bit before he voted for me. Clearly those two posts if mine changed his mind. I'm interested to see how he responds to my defense, but right now I'd put it at slightly scummy.

RR: He didn't feel strongly enough to vote until after Teproc agreed, but that's just RR I think. He just wants his question to have meant something. Null to slight town, I guess.

J Reggie: A real cop-out vote, but honestly probably town. Too blatant for new scum, I think.

ADK: Unfortunate he's just going to leave his vote on town without saying anything the rest of the day. At least he tried to consider my reasoning though. Null, I suppose.

Ichi: His vote was the first time it made me think that there was a real chance I get lynched today, so pretty opportunistic. I'd say ADK's was even moreso though. I can understand his thought process the best though because we actually discussed, and well he has since quite sensibly unvoted, which I'm not sure scum would have taken the time to do. He also responded well to my questioning. Townread.

I am slightly biased to be more likely to townread those who seem to have considered more carefully.

Enough about me though, this is just a waste of time.

[fontisian]

Lio, consider this:

I also disliked that series of posts you made, and reread both them and some of your earlier posts before deciding not to pressure you on it. Had I not townread you before then, I likely would have pressured you as Teproc did. This makes him look fairly good in my eyes.

By comparison, I don't quite know what to make of Ichi's vote and unvote. He said he considered voting to be a good form of pressure, but allowed your opinion on the matter (which is biased by the large wagon on you) to override his own. I don't like that he isn't sticking by his beliefs or, at least, explaining his change of heart. Further, the unvote allows him to look good if you're lynched afterwards and flip town.

Why exactly did you call ADK's vote "unfortunate." That implies he's town, does it not?