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Author Topic: The Necro Wars  (Read 356049 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4725 on: December 21, 2022, 05:26:56 am »

*just not about philosophy

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4726 on: December 21, 2022, 05:27:53 am »

If it can also do the reverse, I'll be extremely impressed. This is much harder because you have to check whether a quote is at the beginning or end of a word.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4727 on: December 21, 2022, 05:29:35 am »

import re

def replace_straight_quotes(text):
  # Replace all instances of straight single quotes (') with left curly quotes (‘ and ’)
  text = re.sub(r"'", "‘’", text)

  # Replace all instances of straight double quotes (") with right curly quotes (“ and ”)
  text = re.sub(r'"', "“”", text)

  return text

# Test the function with a sample string
sample_string = 'This is a test string with straight quotes: "Hello, world!"'
print(replace_straight_quotes(sample_string))

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4728 on: December 21, 2022, 05:32:16 am »

Yeah, that's... not it. Not gonna lie, I'm relieved.

(The program just replaces every straight quote with a pair of curly quotes; not the intended effect. E.g., “”But I‘’m a dirty Griffindor,“” added Primrose, “”so I would say that.“”)

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4729 on: December 21, 2022, 05:36:35 am »

Oh my god it did it when I asked again :{}

def replace_straight_quotes(text):
  # Replace all instances of straight single quotes (') at the beginning of a word with left curly quotes (‘)
  text = re.sub(r"\b'", "‘", text)

  # Replace all instances of straight single quotes (') at the end of a word with right curly quotes (’)
  text = re.sub(r"'\b", "’", text)

  # Replace all instances of straight double quotes (") at the beginning of a word with left curly quotes (“)
  text = re.sub(r'\b"', "“", text)

  # Replace all instances of straight double quotes (") at the end of a word with right curly quotes (”)
  text = re.sub(r'"\b', "”", text)

  return text

Ok, this program is wrong; it uses left quote where it should use right quotes and vice versa. But still. I'm back to being terrified. Maybe digital-only intelligence can get us to AGI after all. Just because they do it differently doesn't mean the different way isn't general.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4730 on: December 21, 2022, 05:54:48 am »

The thing is that many people who study computer science are actually really bad at writing code, so yeah this should automate a good junk of that.

Well, the real question is whether there is a sharp difficulty increase in going from this to harder problems. The classical model would say no; all human capability is really close on an absolute scale, but this model has already been disproven

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4731 on: December 21, 2022, 07:11:44 am »

Here's a game I played against ChatGPT:



It played a known line until I made the first inaccuracy by Bd3 (moving the white bishop). But then when I caslted, it got confused and wanted to castle again, I tried correcting it but even though I eventually got it to play legal moves again, it seemed to have lost the plot. After it hangs the bishop, it wanted to retake it with the queen, which unfortunately it can't.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4732 on: December 21, 2022, 05:12:51 pm »

This shouldn't affect the decision, but it seems like the efforts to align Chat-GPT mostly killed its ability to write fiction. I've tried a few things, and it always wants to get to some bright-eyed overly optimistic ending. E.g., lots and lots of sentences like these:

> It was a complex and difficult problem, but they were determined to find a solution. They knew it wouldn’t be easy, but they were willing to put in the work to make a difference.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4733 on: December 23, 2022, 06:39:38 am »

Ok so

I know there's been talk about "ChatGPT can write essays as well as school children," but like, to what extent is this actually happening? Are students in fact using it to write essays for them?

I just tried it, and I even did it in German, and it seems to do fine. I don't even think ChatGPT is that much worse in German than English. Like, presumably its world model is mostly language-independent with an explicit module for each language.

Quote
Liebe Eltern,

ich möchte Euch gerne ein Haustier ans Herz legen. Ich weiß, dass Ihr bisher nicht davon überzeugt seid, dass das eine gute Idee ist, aber ich glaube, es gibt gute Gründe, warum wir ein Haustier haben sollten.

Erstens bringt ein Haustier viel Freude und Abwechslung in unseren Alltag. Ich könnte mich um das Tier kümmern und es versorgen, und wir könnten gemeinsam Zeit mit ihm verbringen. Es wäre auch schön, wenn wir zusammen mit dem Haustier spazieren gehen könnten.

Zweitens haben Haustiere auch viele gesundheitliche Vorteile. Sie können dazu beitragen, Stress abzubauen und das Selbstbewusstsein zu stärken. Sie können uns auch dazu anregen, uns mehr zu bewegen, wenn wir zum Beispiel mit ihnen spazieren gehen.

Drittens gibt es auch viele Möglichkeiten, sich um das Tier zu kümmern, ohne dass es viel Zeit oder Geld kostet. Wir könnten zum Beispiel eine Katze oder einen Kaninchen als Haustier haben, die wenig Platz brauchen und auch nicht allzu viel Futter benötigen.

Ich hoffe, Ihr könntet meine Argumente berücksichtigen und mir ein Haustier erlauben. Ich verspreche, mich um das Tier zu kümmern und dafür zu sorgen, dass es gut versorgt wird.

Liebe Grüße,
[Dein Name]


And since I'm cuarious, let's just try something while we're at it. I'll translate this using both GoogleTranslate and using ChatGPT.

Translation 1:

Quote
Dear Parents,

I would like to recommend a pet to you. I know you're not yet convinced that this is a good idea, but I think there are good reasons why we should have a pet.

Firstly, having a pet brings a lot of joy and variety to our everyday lives. I could look after and care for the animal and we could spend time together. It would also be nice if we could take the pet for a walk together.

Second, pets also have many health benefits. They can help reduce stress and boost self-confidence. They can also encourage us to move more, for example when we take them for a walk.

Thirdly, there are also many ways to take care of the animal without it taking a lot of time or money. For example, we might have a cat or rabbit as a pet that doesn't take up much space and doesn't require a lot of food either.

I hope you could consider my arguments and allow me a pet. I promise to take care of the animal and make sure it is well cared for.

Warm greetings,
[Your name]

Translation 2:

Quote
Dear Parents,

I would like to suggest that we get a pet. I know that you are not convinced that this is a good idea, but I believe there are good reasons why we should have a pet.

First, a pet can bring a lot of joy and variety to our daily lives. I could take care of the animal and we could spend time together with it. It would also be nice if we could go for walks with the pet.

Second, pets also have many health benefits. They can help to reduce stress and boost self-confidence. They can also encourage us to be more active, such as by going for walks with them.

Third, there are also many ways to take care of a pet without it taking up a lot of time or money. We could have a cat or rabbit as a pet, for example, which do not take up much space and do not need a lot of food.

I hope you will consider my arguments and allow me to have a pet. I promise to take care of the animal and make sure it is well taken care of.

Best regards,
[Your Name]

Which is which? Well, what do you think? Google Translate is the first one.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4734 on: December 23, 2022, 06:46:42 am »

Here's GPT-3 on my concerns about its usability as a homework replacement:

Quote
Using a language model like myself to do your homework for you would not allow you to gain the knowledge and understanding that are important for your personal and academic growth. It is important for you to do your own work and learn from the process, rather than simply copying or using someone else's work as your own.

Plagiarism, or the act of presenting someone else's work as your own, is a serious issue in academia and can have serious consequences, including failing grades and academic penalties. It is important to always properly cite any sources that you use in your work and to make sure that you understand and can explain the concepts that you are learning.

Somehow I don't think this is going to convince anyone

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4735 on: December 23, 2022, 06:54:48 am »

Or to make it a bit more meta, I've used CHatGPT to write an essay about why not to use ChatGPT

Quote
1.    Plagiarism: Using ChatGPT or any other automated tool to generate content for your homework assignments is considered plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act of using someone else's work or ideas as your own without proper attribution. This is considered a serious offense in academic circles and can result in disciplinary action, including failing the assignment or even being expelled from school.

2.    Lack of understanding: ChatGPT or other automated tools can generate content for you, but they cannot ensure that you actually understand the material. In order to truly learn and retain information, it is important to engage with the material and work through problems and assignments on your own. Using ChatGPT as a crutch will not help you develop a deep understanding of the subject matter.

3.    Poor quality: ChatGPT and other automated tools may produce content that is of poor quality or does not accurately reflect the material being covered in your course. This can lead to misunderstandings and poor grades on assignments and exams.

4.    Dependence: Relying on ChatGPT or other automated tools to do your homework for you can create a dependency on these tools. This can make it difficult for you to complete assignments on your own and may hinder your ability to think critically and solve problems independently.

5.    Ethical concerns: Using ChatGPT or other automated tools to complete homework assignments raises ethical concerns. It is important to be honest and transparent about the work that you submit and to give credit where credit is due. Using ChatGPT to do your homework undermines the integrity of your work and can be seen as a form of cheating.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4736 on: December 23, 2022, 07:01:10 am »

And here's ChatGPT on why it's a bad idea to use ChatGPT to explain why using ChatGPT for homework is a bad idea:

Quote
    Using ChatGPT to explain why using ChatGPT for homework is a bad idea is not a good idea for several reasons.

    Firstly, it is not efficient or effective to use ChatGPT as a means of explaining the drawbacks of using ChatGPT for homework. While ChatGPT may be able to generate text on the topic, it is not capable of understanding the nuances or complexities of the issue. As a result, the explanation produced by ChatGPT may be incomplete or inaccurate, and may not effectively convey the intended message.

    Secondly, using ChatGPT to explain the drawbacks of using ChatGPT for homework can be seen as hypocritical or lacking in credibility. By using an automated tool to address the issue of using automated tools for academic purposes, the explanation may be perceived as lacking in authenticity or genuine understanding of the subject matter.

    Finally, there are more effective and reliable ways to explain why using ChatGPT for homework is a bad idea. For example, consulting with a teacher, tutor, or academic advisor, or researching the topic through credible sources such as educational websites or textbooks, can provide a more thorough and accurate understanding of the issue.

    In summary, using ChatGPT to explain why using ChatGPT for homework is a bad idea is not an effective or reliable approach, and there are better alternatives available for understanding and addressing this issue.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4737 on: December 23, 2022, 07:19:37 am »

I know there's been talk about "ChatGPT can write essays as well as school children," but like, to what extent is this actually happening? Are students in fact using it to write essays for them?

I hope so. Learning how to use ChatGPT to deal with pointless bullShiT tasks is far more useful than most skills you can learn at school, including essay-writing, and then kids will have more time to do something else that's actually useful, like playing video games.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4738 on: December 23, 2022, 07:22:48 am »

Based

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4739 on: December 23, 2022, 07:27:27 am »

I know there's been talk about "ChatGPT can write essays as well as school children," but like, to what extent is this actually happening? Are students in fact using it to write essays for them?

I hope so. Learning how to use ChatGPT to deal with pointless bullShiT tasks is far more useful than most skills you can learn at school, including essay-writing, and then kids will have more time to do something else that's actually useful, like playing video games.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4740 on: December 23, 2022, 11:42:28 am »

cringe
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4741 on: December 23, 2022, 03:19:38 pm »

cringe

worth pointing out that ChatGPT usually does not express any opinions no matter how much you ask, so I think it was explicitly programmed to discourage usage of ChatGPT (over education? Or in general.)

OpenAI really went through great lengths to create the most politically correct thing ever

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4742 on: December 30, 2022, 08:30:46 am »

Perhaps this thread is in its twilight. But it's not dead yet. Will it reach 100 pages? Only god people further along in the time dimension of the block universe[/s] know.

Anyways that was enough holidays, it's super time to get back to work. Even played some dominion IRL and lost a game because for some reason piles IRL don't have little counters next to them telling me when they're close to empty.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4743 on: December 30, 2022, 08:31:41 am »

I've now spent so much time on the first rather short post of the sequence, it's kind of insane. But the opening must be good.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4744 on: December 30, 2022, 08:47:26 am »

Idk to what extent the forum's declining activity is due to Discord, but it makes me think about the difference. Presumably, the main advantage of Discord is that the messaging is instant, whereas the main advantage of a forum is that it's much easier to read archived posts. Wouldn't it be possible to combine both -- get a forum-style thing with instant messaging? (Of course, instant messaging is not always desirable, but it seems like the combination of instant messaging and a proper archive is something that makes sense and should exist.)

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4745 on: December 30, 2022, 11:13:51 am »

Idk to what extent the forum's declining activity is due to Discord, but it makes me think about the difference. Presumably, the main advantage of Discord is that the messaging is instant, whereas the main advantage of a forum is that it's much easier to read archived posts. Wouldn't it be possible to combine both -- get a forum-style thing with instant messaging? (Of course, instant messaging is not always desirable, but it seems like the combination of instant messaging and a proper archive is something that makes sense and should exist.)

The problem with archiving instant messaging is that there are too many things of relatively little importance for it to make sense to archive all of it.
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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4746 on: December 31, 2022, 08:00:01 am »

So, Wednesday is the new big on Netflix, and...

... it's really good. It's so full of stuff that it never gets boring, and seems to be consistently non-stupid. Sort of the essence of good light entertainment. At least an 8 if it can keep up with the first episoded.

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4747 on: December 31, 2022, 08:10:38 am »

Given the show's popularity and ridiculous premise, it's a miracle that it's as well written as it is. I'm having a moment of profound gratitude

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4748 on: December 31, 2022, 10:21:36 am »

Here's one of the most amazing things ever -- can't believe I haven't talked about it until now.

The band Godspeed You!Black Emperor (atrocious name, but that's beside the point) does interesting instrumental music and often sprinkles in various audio samples. The Album F#A#∞ has the following dialogue sample at the start of the third and last song:



P1: You think the end of the world is coming?

P2: The preacher man says it's the end of time... he says that America's rivers are going dry. The interest is up, the stock market's down... You guys gotta be careful walking around here this late at night...

P3 (woman, unclear): {something about "change"}

P2: This -- no we don't, ma'am, I'm sorry. This -- this -- this is the perfect place to get jumped.

P1: But do you think the end of the world is coming?

P2: No. So says the preacher man, but... I don't go by what he says




Now I've listened to this album way before anything else of this band, and I always thought the exchange was staged and meant to be some concrete story thing. Like, the album is about the end of the world, so I thought it's a scenario where society is in really terrible shape, the preacher man is some kind of known figure, and P2 is probably a shop owner, maybe at a gas station... I always thought the woman was asking him whether he provides a certain service mb related to cars, and he said "no we don't" as relating to the store.

Anyway, it turns out the band has another album called Slow Riot For New Zero Canada, whose second song has an extended interview just sprinkled in between instrumental bits -- with P1 interviewing P2. The interview is so strange and P2 turns out to be such a peculiar and specific person, and also the way he words things is so bad that it super doesn't sound staged. I almost want to quote the entire interview because it's amazing, but here's the beginning... also, apparently P2 is called Blaise Bailey Finnegan III.



Interviewer: Well, just... where are you coming from?

Blaise Bailey Finnegan III: Well... I don't like the way the country's ran, don't you know, and, erm... that's pretty much what I was expressing in my poem. The government... the American government - they're sneaky, they're very deceitful, they're liars, they're cheats, they're rip-offs. I mean, the American government is, is one systematic government that... that nobody can trust. I don't trust them myself




and another key section...




Interviewer: We overheard you before talking about... you went to court today for a speeding ticket?

Blaise Bailey Finnegan III: That's accurate

Interviewer: right. Do you wanna tell us that story?

Blaise Bailey Finnegan III: Yes, absolutely, I wouldn't mind telling you the story. Erm... I went to court today for a speeding ticket, and I told the judge, erm... "Let me tell you something, and you listen and you listen good, I'm only gonna say this one time and one time only, I don't repeat myself for nobody," I said. I says... "I'm here to pay a speeding ticket, not to listen to your lectures and hear you run your mouth for an hour." I says "I'm here to pay off my speeding ticket... and I'm here to... to get my fines out of the way and get the fuck to work." The judge says "You can't talk like that in my courtroom, you're in contempt of court." Then I said... I told the judge, "If that's the best you can do, I feel sorry for you." I said "Why don't you just shut your fucking mouth for once and listen." I said "I'm not gonna take your shit." I said "I'm gonna pay my speeding ticket like I said." I walked up to the god damn judge and I hand him my 25 dollars and I says "Here's my money, now I am leaving." And I left it at that
Then, before I left, I turned around and told the judge "I'm here to state who I am and be honest with you." I said "If they thought I was dangerous on the road like you're trying to accuse me of, wouldn't they have taken my license when I first got it? Yes they would." And the judge says "Yeah, you have a point," He goes "You don't need to get loud," I said "Don't get loud?" I says "I've got every right to get loud." I says "You can't do a god damn thing about it, because I'm expressing myself in your court, and there is nothing you can do about it. You think you're god because you have a robe and you can put people up the goddamn river for 20 years? Well you're not." And I left it at that




So what the hell is this? Well, apparently what actually happened is that the band was performing some early, unpublished version of their first album F#A#∞, and at some point, this guy jumps on stage (their stage or someone else's, idk) and just starts reciting a poem out of nowhere. Then the band had the greatest idea of all time in, rather than telling him to fuck off, ask him to give an extended interview, and the sample is an actual recording of a thing that actually happened in the real world.

And P3 seems to be a beggar woman at the festival asking for "spare change".

That means Blaise Bailey Finnegan III is a real guy, and he seems to have a totally crazy world view in which the world is about to end, and he himself is this great rebel that everyone respects. Mind you that all of this happened over 20 years ago. There's then no way that the anecdote about the speeding ticket is correct; I bet he was rambling almost incoherently, but  but in his head he delivered this grand speech and the judge had no reply to his world view.

That means interviewing him is just brilliant because it fits so beautifully into his world view where he's the hero. It's most likely the first time anyone has bothered to do this, which makes it such an amazing document.

But it gets better because at the end of the interview, the band member asks him to recite the poem, and he does -- although I've read that he actually recited a different poem than the one he originally told on stage. I don't know if it's true; it would make no sense but nothing about this makes sense, so perhaps it is true.



Interviewer: Would you mind reciting your poem for us?

Blaise Bailey Finnegan III: Not at all, I don't see why... I don't see why I couldn't

There's an evil virus that's threatening mankind
It's not state of the art, it's a serious state of the mind
The muggers, the backstabbers, the two faced elite
A menace to society, a social disease
To brainwash the mind is a social disorder
The cynics, the apathy one-upmanship order
Watching beginnings of social decay
Gloating and sneering at life's disarray
Eating away at your own self esteem
Pouncing on every word that you might be saying

To attack someone's mind is a social disorder
The constitution, the government, martial law order
Superficially smiling a shake of the hand
As soon as your back is turned treason is planned

When every good thing's laid to rest
By the governments hate, by the constitution and their lies
And every time you think you're safe
And when you go to turn away
You know they're sharpening all their knives

All in your mind
All in your head
Try to relate it
All in your mind
All in your head
Try to escape it

Without a conscience they destroy
And that's a thing that they enjoy
They're a sickness that's in all of our minds
They want to sink the ship and leave
The way they laugh at you and me
You know it happens all the time
But it only happens in your mind
The rats in the cellar you know who you are...
Or do you?
Watching beginnings of social decay

Interviewer: Thank you for your time




So this poem is... well, it's pretty good, isn't it? I think it is; not that I have any sort of criteria, but it seems to be effective at conveying a certain aesthetic. Also, in the interview, Blaise does say that he's been writing since he was four. So besides being completely delusional, is he actually a genuine poet?

Probably not. Because the poem is an almost 1:1 replica of the lyrics from the song Virus by Iron Maiden. (Which is pretty bad imo, like the lyrics as a standalone are more interesting than the song, so in some strange way I give Blaise credit ....) There's only a few lines changed to make it about the government, e.g., the original has this:

When every good thing's laid to waste
By all the jealousy and hate
By all the acid, wit and rapier lies
And every time you think you're safe
And when you go to turn away
You know they're sharpening all their papers knives

So he just memorized this song lyrics, and he's selling it as his own great commentary about the corrupt government.

Another weird wrinkle is that the guy from Iron Maiden who wrote this is called Blaze Bayley, so probably Blaise Bailey Finnegan III is not the actual name of the guy here but just something Godspeed You ... called him? I don't know. My version of the song is just called BBF, various sites on the internet call him Blaise Bailey Finnegan III  but idk where the full name comes from or why the Finnegan last name. Also possible that he introduced himself that way... apparently the band sometimes plays extended clips of their samples at live shows.

But that's still not the thing I find most amazing. The thing I find most amazing is that his bit from F#A#∞ about the end of the world is *also* plagiarized from song lyrics. Here's the opening to the song "A country boy can survive"

The preacher man says it's the end of time
And the Mississippi River, she's a-goin' dry
The interest is up and the stock market's down
And you only get mugged if you go downtown

The fact that he turned this into a response that he gave in an interview is endlessly fascinating to me. Like, he adjusted it to fit the situation a little... "you guys gotta be careful walking around here this late at night, this is the perfect place to get jumped"... but the entire thing just doesn't make any sense. Who did the Interviewer think he referred to with the Preacher Man? Did he ask? We don't know how much was cut from the interview...

Also he's plagiarizing both Iron Maiden and some bland whatever country singer ...?!

I think I've learned this over a year ago and I'm still thinking about it periodically. This entire story is so bizarre that only reality could have thought it up.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #4749 on: December 31, 2022, 10:36:07 am »

This is why I said at least 20 years ago:

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Interviewer: What do you think this country's gonna look like in the year 2003?

Blaise Bailey Finnegan III: Y'know, I'll tell you the truth - nothing against you guys, but I don't wanna answer that question because... I haven't even got a mind that's that...that inhumane
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