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[yuma]

I don't think we should base decisions too heavily on an expected number of PRs.

I don't either. The problem is that I initially was making decisions and assumptions based off that. And now that I am realizing I shouldn't I am recalibrating.

PS: I hope nothing above was seen as critical of ash. As far as I can tell he has designed this game within the rules taht this community has established. I, incorrectly thought, that the rules were more encompassing and think they should be going forward. But ash shouldn't be held to rules that don't exist, so he certainly hasn't done anything wrong with this setup. i want to make that clear.

[Haddock]

I don't think anything you said sounded like Ash criticism.

Certainly nothing I said was intended as such either.

I think Dr. Stange can be some type of roleblocker, as he seems to be some kind of protector against black magic. But well, any avenger is a hero and hence should have some superpower, so as this is normal some wouldn't have it

Hmm.  Pointing out that the flavour might expect a role to be associated to this character?  ie. pointing out a potential flaw in his own claim?  Towny af.

[yuma]

I don't think anything you said sounded like Ash criticism.

Ash and I have a shared history of experiencing players criticizing a setup while the game (M31) was ongoing. It was really frustrating. We had created the setup within the rules that existed at that time, but the players had different levels of expectations to what the game encompassed. As such they made some decisions that adversely affected them and rather than take responsibility for making poor assumptions about the game they blamed the mods (this of course is from my perspective as a mod and ash and I did share some responsibility in that we weren't clear enough about the specifics of the game setup). And here I am trying to do the same thing here but making sure that any poor assumption is on my end (and getting others to hopefully not make the same assumptions I previously made here so we can correctly lynch scum) and not on ash.

[Haddock]

OK, well, cool.  
Definitely if we make wrong assumptions it is our fault, not Ash's.

I can't get over the towniness inherent in Egor pointing out an "apparent flaw" in his own claim.  Could he have faked that?

[yuma]

I can't get over the towniness inherent in Egor pointing out an "apparent flaw" in his own claim.  Could he have faked that?

Yes. Absolutely.

That said, I am leaning toward vote: teproc

[faust]

I can't get over the towniness inherent in Egor pointing out an "apparent flaw" in his own claim.  Could he have faked that?

Uh, yeah. It's much better he points it out than someone else, which was definitely going to happen. And after all he's not pointing out a "flaw". He says all Heroes make sense as PRs, but some just have to be VTs.

[yuma]

I can't get over the towniness inherent in Egor pointing out an "apparent flaw" in his own claim.  Could he have faked that?

Uh, yeah. It's much better he points it out than someone else, which was definitely going to happen. And after all he's not pointing out a "flaw". He says all Heroes make sense as PRs, but some just have to be VTs.

I would give him more credit if he had pointed it out without you previously asking the question:

Would Dr. Strange be expected to have a PR, flavourwise?  I don't know him really. 

But once you ask that question, it is better for EgorK to answer it and gain control of it regardless of alignment than to have someone else answer it for him.

[Haddock]

That said, I am leaning toward vote: teproc

nyer.......

I dunno.  I mean, maybe?

I probably prefer Hydrad, e and WW (and still Egor) over Teproc.

Let's try vote: Hydrad?

PPEfaust. I guess if someone was always going to point it out then scum would do so first.  I know I wouldn't have pointed that out though, I wasn't aware of it.
PPEyuma.  True.  Maybe I should have kept shtum.

[Haddock]

Actually, no.  WW's point about looking for people who believed the claims quite quickly stands, independent of his alignment.

So not Hydrad.

vote: e again.

[faust]

Actually, no.  WW's point about looking for people who believed the claims quite quickly stands, independent of his alignment.

So not Hydrad.

vote: e again.

Err.. how does that point make sense if WW is scum?

[Haddock]

If WW is scum then e's instant acceptance of his claim looks suspicious,  no?

[Haddock]

Yep. I like this. Either way round, e looks bad.
Plus he was scummy anyway.
Who's in?

[yuma]

Yep. I like this. Either way round, e looks bad.
Plus he was scummy anyway.
Who's in?

No.

[iguanaiguana]

Yep. I like this. Either way round, e looks bad.
Plus he was scummy anyway.
Who's in?

No.

[Haddock]

[faust]

If WW is scum then e's instant acceptance of his claim looks suspicious,  no?

No. Why?

[Haddock]

Perhaps I'm approaching that too naively.
But scum doesn't want to see his partner lynched, so tries to get a culture of believing WWs claim going.

[Witherweaver]

Actually, no.  WW's point about looking for people who believed the claims quite quickly stands, independent of his alignment.

So not Hydrad.

vote: e again.

Err.. how does that point make sense if WW is scum?

Because e immediately believed you, too.

[yuma]

Perhaps I'm approaching that too naively.
But scum doesn't want to see his partner lynched, so tries to get a culture of believing WWs claim going.

that is certainly a plausible approach for a scum partner to take. But it certainly isn't the only option, nor do I think it is the most likely.

Remember. If WW is scum then his partners know that he is guilty and know that if he does flip they want to be on the "pushing" side when it comes to analysis of the flip afterwards. That is the approach I think mafia would take if WW is scum.... push for his lynch and then once they saw that it looked like it wasn't going to immediately happen, switch over and start to semi-push against it....

[Haddock]

OK.

In which case yeah, this is much less good if WW is scum.

Nonetheless, e is scummy.

What's the case on Teproc?

[Witherweaver]

Perhaps I'm approaching that too naively.
But scum doesn't want to see his partner lynched, so tries to get a culture of believing WWs claim going.

that is certainly a plausible approach for a scum partner to take. But it certainly isn't the only option, nor do I think it is the most likely.

Remember. If WW is scum then his partners know that he is guilty and know that if he does flip they want to be on the "pushing" side when it comes to analysis of the flip afterwards. That is the approach I think mafia would take if WW is scum.... push for his lynch and then once they saw that it looked like it wasn't going to immediately happen, switch over and start to semi-push against it....

And how do you think scum reacts to town me?

[yuma]

And how do you think scum reacts to town me?

Well there a myriad of reactions. But I think the most common one would be to react in cautious belief of your claim and then if seeing there was a strong opposition to believing it join in for the lynch.

But not everyone would play that way. I know there are some--ash for example if he were in this game--I think if he honestly thought he wouldn't believe your claim as town--would react strongly from the very beginning.

But the middle of the road is where I would expect to find scum. But since your wagon never really took off... I would look in the people who were lukewarm. Stating they would have supported lynching you but weren't really forceful about it or eventually backed off from it completely as your wagon didn't take off.

[Ampharos]

Yuma is spot on here.

As far as Teproc is concerned, I'm very conflicted.  He reads town to me, all helpful and conversational and lots of opinions, but I still can't get over the fact that I gut-read him scummy to begin.  That's not very fair or "good practice", but I keep getting this nagging feeling that I can't shake.

[yuma]

Yuma is spot on here.

Says the person doing exactly what I say mafia is unlikely to do....

[Ampharos]

Exactly.  Which is why I got town cred for it, cause what you said is true. 

Yay things are as they seem for once!