You win when all threats to the Heroes are eliminated and at least one Hero is left alive.
Maybe in. Sticking to the only one game rule if I can.
/in
/in
Kinda relieved to see you posting here.
/out💔
/outWhy are you abandoning Mafia?
/outWhy are you abandoning Mafia?
5 more and this game can basically start. We're at a good pace and space with other games right now.
/outWhy are you abandoning Mafia?
It makes me angry at people and confused all day long. Its not good for me.
/outWhy are you abandoning Mafia?
It makes me angry at people and confused all day long. Its not good for me.
Come on folks -- let's get this started.*Cough* Iguana *Cough*
/in
/in
/in
So you changed your mind? I'm glad :)
/in
So you changed your mind? I'm glad :)
Ehh. Couldn't resist the chance to sheep you.
Besides, you guys all need someone to lynch D1 regardless of alignment
;D >:( ;D >:( ;D >:( 8) 8) 8) :'( 8)
/in
So you changed your mind? I'm glad :)
Ehh. Couldn't resist the chance to sheep you.
Besides, you guys all need someone to lynch D1 regardless of alignment
;D >:( ;D >:( ;D >:( 8) 8) 8) :'( 8)
Such a scummy thing to say!
Fun fact: I haven't read my PM, and I don't know my alignment.
/tag
quoting complete games is perfectly legal for sigs. A lot of people do it. Ongoing games are a different matter, which now that you mention it, should probably go away
quoting complete games is perfectly legal for sigs. A lot of people do it. Ongoing games are a different matter, which now that you mention it, should probably go away
vote: silverspawn
I always wanted to self-vote in a serious game
now that I did it, vote: Egork
vote: silverspawn
I always wanted to self-vote in a serious game
now that I did it, vote: Egork
Vote: ss
vote: silverspawn
I always wanted to self-vote in a serious game
now that I did it, vote: Egork
Vote: ss
The only thing more scummy than self-voting is capitalizing on someone else's self voting.
Vote: Yuma
Happy thanksgiving!
vote: silverspawn
I always wanted to self-vote in a serious game
now that I did it, vote: Egork
Vote: ss
The only thing more scummy than self-voting is capitalizing on someone else's self voting.
Vote: Yuma
Happy thanksgiving!
vote: igu for finding self-voting more scummy than claiming scum
Is it scummy if you don't participate in the random voting stage?
I don't that's scummy.Is it scummy if you don't participate in the random voting stage?
It's scummy if you ask "Is it scummy..?"
I don't that's scummy.Is it scummy if you don't participate in the random voting stage?
It's scummy if you ask "Is it scummy..?"
So it is not a tell for your alignment?I don't that's scummy.Is it scummy if you don't participate in the random voting stage?
It's scummy if you ask "Is it scummy..?"
It's about as scummy as forgetting verbs.
It is though.I don't that's scummy.Is it scummy if you don't participate in the random voting stage?
It's scummy if you ask "Is it scummy..?"
Unvote
Then vote for the scummiest person!Unvote
Unvoting is scummy!
Okay, thanks SS. Now, time to random vote!
Vote: Awaclus for being lurky.
Okay, thanks SS. Now, time to random vote!
Vote: Awaclus for being lurky.
Lurking on Thanksgiving is unacceptable!
Lol.
So I think I am going to claim.
Thoughts?
So I think I am going to claim.
Thoughts?
Are you going to claim scum?
Yuma is obv dayvig!
Thread not locked!
So I think I am going to claim.
Thoughts?
I will claim with Yuma.
I claim Iron ManI will claim with Yuma.
er, don't. claiming early is only a good idea if you have a specific reason for i.t
I will claim with Yuma.
I claim Iron ManI will claim with Yuma.
er, don't. claiming early is only a good idea if you have a specific reason for i.t
Public setup information:
Flavor matters. Non-Heroes will receive adequate information to safely claim. That said, no flavor knowledge is required to play this game.
I'm not going to claim doctor this game. Discuss
It absolutely makes sense as a scum role, not as mafia but as SK.
You claiming was definitely the right thing to do, and probably what ash intended. It puts us in a very interesting situation. I don't think we should lynch you day 1, I'll say that.
Oooohhhh, Teproc quoted a moderator...
It's not exactly negative utility before we're at 50/50, because the death of a town has benefit in the information it gives. Hard to quantify, but it's there.
@Haddock : that's fine and all, but there's actual relevant staff to talk about. Thoughts on yuma's claim ?Forgive me for enjoying myself. :P
If nothing better comes up, we have to kill Yuma, right?
If nothing better comes up, we have to kill Yuma, right?
Isn't he better than a random lynch?If nothing better comes up, we have to kill Yuma, right?
Why ?
Isn't he better than a random lynch?If nothing better comes up, we have to kill Yuma, right?
Why ?
Yuma no part is compulsive, right?
So RVS is over, huh? Thanks, yuma!
The role is interesting... it's crazy swingy, but I think part of that is balanced out by the fact that it's not compulsive.
Note that it is very very convenient as a scum fakeclaim. If you get caught targetting some obvtown player with a killing action, you can always say "I didn't know it would hit him!" That said, it's unusual and dangerous to claim for that exact reason... so I think I want to keep yuma alive tonight. I would advise some precaution though, something like yuma announces whether or not he shoots prior to each night.
Well my vote officially sucks!Scumslip, vote: igu!
<b> unvote </b> for now...
Where to go next? <b> Vote: Roadrunner </b> seems okay fir now.
Why would we ever want yuma to shoot ? At mylo I guess, but aside from that I don't see how that could be a good idea.
Why would we ever want yuma to shoot ? At mylo I guess, but aside from that I don't see how that could be a good idea.
I think there are a couple of situations where it's good. Like, if you have 3 town and 1 scum left alive, then the extra shot is 'free'
Why would we ever want yuma to shoot ? At mylo I guess, but aside from that I don't see how that could be a good idea.
I think there are a couple of situations where it's good. Like, if you have 3 town and 1 scum left alive, then the extra shot is 'free'
Right, reverse mylo in a way. My point is : there's no scenario in which town!yuma shoots without the town discussing and approving it first.
Well my vote officially sucks!
<b> unvote </b> for now...
Where to go next? <b> Vote: Roadrunner </b> seems okay fir now.
the above seems like a real scumslip to me. It's from a new player, and town doesn't have QT's in this game.
the above seems like a real scumslip to me. It's from a new player, and town doesn't have QT's in this game.
Reiterate my vote on SS. Iguana has been in a bunch of quick topics of late via dying in other games. That there aren't any "known" town QTs this game has no merit.
This type of scumip has been proven again and again to not indicate alignment.
It's not indicative of anything other than "this player has posted in a QT recently".
Well, this has happened to iguana before I think, and then he said it's because of forum Survivor. I don't know if he's still playing in that. Anyway scumslips like this do not exist.
scumslips are rarely proof or insignificant - usually they're something in between.Note that the last time Igu made this exact same slip, he was autolynched and was town. I don't want to lynch him for this.the above seems like a real scumslip to me. It's from a new player, and town doesn't have QT's in this game.
Reiterate my vote on SS. Iguana has been in a bunch of quick topics of late via dying in other games. That there aren't any "known" town QTs this game has no merit.
I disagree. If he is scum (who could have daychat, too) that maks it more likely. It's one thing to have been in QT's at some point, and another thing to post something in a QT and then go right into the threat.
note that the last time I accused someone of scumslipping, he was scum.
scumslips are rarely proof or insignificant - usually they're something in between.Note that the last time Igu made this exact same slip, he was autolynched and was town. I don't want to lynch him for this.the above seems like a real scumslip to me. It's from a new player, and town doesn't have QT's in this game.
Reiterate my vote on SS. Iguana has been in a bunch of quick topics of late via dying in other games. That there aren't any "known" town QTs this game has no merit.
I disagree. If he is scum (who could have daychat, too) that maks it more likely. It's one thing to have been in QT's at some point, and another thing to post something in a QT and then go right into the threat.
note that the last time I accused someone of scumslipping, he was scum.
Doubt what? What are you talking about?scumslips are rarely proof or insignificant - usually they're something in between.Note that the last time Igu made this exact same slip, he was autolynched and was town. I don't want to lynch him for this.the above seems like a real scumslip to me. It's from a new player, and town doesn't have QT's in this game.
Reiterate my vote on SS. Iguana has been in a bunch of quick topics of late via dying in other games. That there aren't any "known" town QTs this game has no merit.
I disagree. If he is scum (who could have daychat, too) that maks it more likely. It's one thing to have been in QT's at some point, and another thing to post something in a QT and then go right into the threat.
note that the last time I accused someone of scumslipping, he was scum.
most people are in the 'scum slips don't exist' mentality, so I kind of doubt that
Doubt what? What are you talking about?
Meh. I don't think it's a scumslip and it has nothing to do with my vote, but I briefly considered it, could see silver doing the same.
Disagree, but ive just realised we should stop talking about this.Doubt what? What are you talking about?
that he got autolynched for it
Doubt what? What are you talking about?
that he got autolynched for it
Meh. I don't think it's a scumslip and it has nothing to do with my vote, but I briefly considered it, could see silver doing the same.
So why are you voting him?
It's not indicative of anything other than "this player has posted in a QT recently".
right, I agree with that, and it's a useful way of putting it. And having posted in a QT recently does make him more likely to be scum.Well, this has happened to iguana before I think, and then he said it's because of forum Survivor. I don't know if he's still playing in that. Anyway scumslips like this do not exist.
you have admitted that they do before.
This type of scumip has been proven again and again to not indicate alignment.
do you have any evidence for this?
It's not indicative of anything other than "this player has posted in a QT recently".
right, I agree with that, and it's a useful way of putting it. And having posted in a QT recently does make him more likely to be scum.
I doubt that. Show me where this happened.
I doubt that. Show me where this happened.
no, that would take forever. and I'm certain, so it's not necessary. just trust me on this.
the conversation went something like
- s: {scum slip argument}
- f: *this* is relevant (link to the scum slip debate)
- s: you really only argue that scum slips are extremely rare, not that they don't exist. ash warned us in fish mafia that we shouldn't use <> in the thread
- f: yeah they're rare, so rare that they basically never happen. if someone was a new player, then sure, he could scum slip. but for someone who works with QT's all the time like me, it's a null-tell
well - igu is comparatively new.
I think I was scum in that game.
I doubt that. Show me where this happened.
no, that would take forever. and I'm certain, so it's not necessary. just trust me on this.
the conversation went something like
- s: {scum slip argument}
- f: *this* is relevant (link to the scum slip debate)
- s: you really only argue that scum slips are extremely rare, not that they don't exist. ash warned us in fish mafia that we shouldn't use <> in the thread
- f: yeah they're rare, so rare that they basically never happen. if someone was a new player, then sure, he could scum slip. but for someone who works with QT's all the time like me, it's a null-tell
well - igu is comparatively new.
I think I was scum in that game.
here is an example for you. I tried hard to remember the specific game that I was thinking of... wibbly wobbly mafia...
I believe that this is the first game where it happened and where there was a big deal about it...
Voltgloss was town. Shraeye the guy accusing him is scum...
I argued heavily against it as a SK... It was pretty interesting and worth reading and, in my opinion, is a great example of the folly of relying on these sort of slips.
link starts where shraeye makes the case against him:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9010.msg280192#msg280192
well, I am saying that ig's slip makes him more likely to be scum with about the strength of a strong to average day 1 case (aka about 10%). so... 1 counter example isn't really useful.
it also heavily depends on who does it.
Vote: iguana
While we assign non zero probability of it being scumslip iguana has more than average probability being scum. What else he did had not dissuaded me from this assesment
well, I am saying that ig's slip makes him more likely to be scum with about the strength of a strong to average day 1 case (aka about 10%). so... 1 counter example isn't really useful.
it also heavily depends on who does it.
Sure I am not saying 1 counter example is enough. Like I said, I don't have time to find a whole bunch of them. But I do think it is still worth reading. If this is still an issue I'll to do a more exhaustive search, but this was the one that stuck out to me.
And where are you making up these 10% numbers? What do you have to back that up since you are so interested in backing things up these days.
And sure it depends on who does it. Iguana has been posting in QTs, survivor and speccies. This is known. So why aren't you taking that into consideration?
And sure it depends on who does it. Iguana has been posting in QTs, survivor and speccies. This is known. So why aren't you taking that into consideration?
Vote: iguana
While we assign non zero probability of it being scumslip iguana has more than average probability being scum. What else he did had not dissuaded me from this assesment
I stopped at around M40.
so.
let's just forget the scum slip thing for now.
Vote: ss instead.
I think for some people it could be considered a slight scum tell. I think for iguana I can't consider it a scum tell anymore.
PPE:3
ahha it was my vote pressure that did it. I'm so good at this game.
Vote: ss instead.
I think for some people it could be considered a slight scum tell. I think for iguana I can't consider it a scum tell anymore.
PPE:3
"I disagree with you, therefore you're scum!"
Vote: ss instead.
I think for some people it could be considered a slight scum tell. I think for iguana I can't consider it a scum tell anymore.
PPE:3
"I disagree with you, therefore you're scum!"
It was more of a I felt like you were trying to stretch the scumslip argument further then you normally would I guess. But then the next post you like gave up so I don't know anymore.
This is all-and-all quite a bad argument. Teproc's point is okay, I give it a 'meh'. Silver is lynchable.
so.
let's just forget the scum slip thing for now.
ahha it was my vote pressure that did it. I'm so good at this game.
Vote: ss instead.
I think for some people it could be considered a slight scum tell. I think for iguana I can't consider it a scum tell anymore.
PPE:3
"I disagree with you, therefore you're scum!"
It was more of a I felt like you were trying to stretch the scumslip argument further then you normally would I guess. But then the next post you like gave up so I don't know anymore.
pushing scum tell arguments is generally towny, because you get a lot of poorly reasoned flag for it without achieving much, even if you're right.
Also, slip, not tell.
Vote: iguana
While we assign non zero probability of it being scumslip iguana has more than average probability being scum. What else he did had not dissuaded me from this assesment
No, this is not the way math works.
Vote: iguana
While we assign non zero probability of it being scumslip iguana has more than average probability being scum. What else he did had not dissuaded me from this assesment
No, this is not the way math works.
This is exactly how math works. We have a probability p for average player being scum. Someone apperas to scumslip. Suppose with probability q he actually scumslips, while with probabilty 1-q it is not telling of alignment (i. e. he is scum with probability p). Then total probability of being scum is q+(1-q)p = p+q(1-p) > p if q > 0
Also your data, despite not really many cases, shows 1/4 probability of being scum after scum slip which is higher then normal being scum probability
Well, look, either it was a scumslip or it wasn't, so two choices. Ashersky can verify that there is therefore a 50% chance it was a scumslip. Oh, I guess we all should be voting for Iguana.
Well, look, either it was a scumslip or it wasn't, so two choices. Ashersky can verify that there is therefore a 50% chance it was a scumslip. Oh, I guess we all should be voting for Iguana.
Isn't math great ?
Doubt what? What are you talking about?
that he got autolynched for it
Also, slip, not tell.
right
it's towny because scum would be afraid of it. I guess. Mostly I wanted to tell Hydrad that he was wrong.
Vote: iguana
While we assign non zero probability of it being scumslip iguana has more than average probability being scum. What else he did had not dissuaded me from this assesment
No, this is not the way math works.
This is exactly how math works. We have a probability p for average player being scum. Someone apperas to scumslip. Suppose with probability q he actually scumslips, while with probabilty 1-q it is not telling of alignment (i. e. he is scum with probability p). Then total probability of being scum is q+(1-q)p = p+q(1-p) > p if q > 0
Also your data, despite not really many cases, shows 1/4 probability of being scum after scum slip which is higher then normal being scum probability
What does "scumslip" even mean in this context?
You're not making any sense. First you are talking about <b> and about the probability of that being a scumslip, but now you define it as a scumslip...
Well, look, either it was a scumslip or it wasn't, so two choices. Ashersky can verify that there is therefore a 50% chance it was a scumslip. Oh, I guess we all should be voting for Iguana.
Isn't math great ?
Reflecting on that, I believe there is something wrong with your premise. ash would never assess the likeliness of a scumslip occurring at anything less than 75%.
this game is weird
vote: faust for not getting things moving
this game is weird
vote: faust for not getting things moving
this game is weird
vote: faust for not getting things moving
Vote: silverspawn for not getting things moving.
I am seriously sick of this.
You're not making any sense. First you are talking about <b> and about the probability of that being a scumslip, but now you define it as a scumslip...
<b> is "appears to scumslip" in my post. Actual scumslip is if done because posting recently in mafia qt
Well, look, either it was a scumslip or it wasn't, so two choices. Ashersky can verify that there is therefore a 50% chance it was a scumslip. Oh, I guess we all should be voting for Iguana.
Isn't math great ?
Reflecting on that, I believe there is something wrong with your premise. ash would never assess the likeliness of a scumslip occurring at anything less than 75%.
You're missing the premise of the joke.
You're not making any sense. First you are talking about <b> and about the probability of that being a scumslip, but now you define it as a scumslip...
<b> is "appears to scumslip" in my post. Actual scumslip is if done because posting recently in mafia qt
Your argument would make sense if not for the fact that scum is actually cautious and thus less likely to <b>. You say (1-p) is "not indicative of alignment", but you exclude the possiblity of it being indicative of being town.
Interesting; this is a meta-based vote?
@silver : What's weird about this game ? If anything is weird, is how fast it did get going, so... what ?
You were kind of a big driver in talking about scumslip theory...
Vote: iguana
While we assign non zero probability of it being scumslip iguana has more than average probability being scum. What else he did had not dissuaded me from this assesment
No, this is not the way math works.
This is exactly how math works. We have a probability p for average player being scum. Someone apperas to scumslip. Suppose with probability q he actually scumslips, while with probabilty 1-q it is not telling of alignment (i. e. he is scum with probability p). Then total probability of being scum is q+(1-q)p = p+q(1-p) > p if q > 0
Also your data, despite not really many cases, shows 1/4 probability of being scum after scum slip which is higher then normal being scum probability
What does "scumslip" even mean in this context?
For the sake of this argument we may limit it to using <b> to bold a vote
I'd appreciate to get more from iguana here
I'm sorry I meant I no longer believed WW/Xerxes was possible.
At any rate it hardly matters at all. If Faust is scum, we will lose because I was the only one who refused to blindly follow after the pied piper.
If faust is town, we likely still lose because he has made a mistake of some kind.
Either way my only vindication will be my death and my flip.
So go ahead and kill me you cowards.
<b> Vote: Iguana </b>
From Faust's QT:
"Yeah Hide behind Ampharos"
Laughing at it because I have made the opposite mistake so many times : P
I thought you meant something else from what you did.You're not making any sense. First you are talking about <b> and about the probability of that being a scumslip, but now you define it as a scumslip...
<b> is "appears to scumslip" in my post. Actual scumslip is if done because posting recently in mafia qt
Your argument would make sense if not for the fact that scum is actually cautious and thus less likely to <b>. You say (1-p) is "not indicative of alignment", but you exclude the possiblity of it being indicative of being town.
It may be so or not, I don't know. Namely it may be so for you. I, for example, always use buttons at the top to bold things. Stats you provided suggests otherwise for random person, however small sample that is.
I just really do not understand your "This not how math works" comment
That's just too much to swallow and makes you look scummy to me.
That's just too much to swallow and makes you look scummy to me.
er... this doesn't make a lot of sense. you're basically suggesting that I remembered it but pretended not to. This is the kind of stuff scum would never do.
I do not find Silver scummy based on this interaction. Pushing even mediocre cases at this stage is better than RVS
I do not find Silver scummy based on this interaction. Pushing even mediocre cases at this stage is better than RVS
Agreed. But that is why I am pushing for his mediocre case. I don't have anything else to go on right now.
Why does Hydrad's comment look scummy to you?
>.< Can't believe this is coming from the guy who just tried to get me lynched for bolding incorrectly.
Ok, I am persuaded
Vote: Hydrad. His last post is really weird, in scum Hydrad weird way
@silver : What's weird about this game ? If anything is weird, is how fast it did get going, so... what ?
well it's going but we're not talking about alignments. first we talked about scum slip theory and then about maths.
Also, slip, not tell.
right
it's towny because scum would be afraid of it. I guess. Mostly I wanted to tell Hydrad that he was wrong.
fair enough i guess?
fair enough i guess?
>.< Can't believe this is coming from the guy who just tried to get me lynched for bolding incorrectly.
I don't get this. How are the two things connected?
Bolding incorrectly is an unintentional slip-up. I will admit that your provided examples and your history with forum mafia basically invalidate the original case, but... well that's that.
What I just said was, scum would not go 'I will pretend not to remember this thing so I have the opportunity to push a dishonest and mediocre case on someone'. That's not the way scum thinks. It's not something scum is likely to do.
If you disagree with that, then... well you're wrong.
Is this some kind of joke? Because it's not funny.
Also, slip, not tell.
right
it's towny because scum would be afraid of it. I guess. Mostly I wanted to tell Hydrad that he was wrong.
fair enough i guess?fair enough i guess?
Is this some kind of joke? Because it's not funny.
Well, you pushed it. I told you you had done it before, asked you to go look, you didn't go look, ignored that comment, talked about maths, and just proceeded to act like this mistake has not ever happened before. And it seemed scummy to me.
What is EBWOF?
I do not find Silver scummy based on this interaction. Pushing even mediocre cases at this stage is better than RVS
Agreed. But that is why I am pushing for his mediocre case. I don't have anything else to go on right now.
Why does Hydrad's comment look scummy to you?
You agree that silver is not scummy?
What is EBWOF?
Edit by way of post
why an F instead of EBWOP?
Well, you pushed it. I told you you had done it before, asked you to go look, you didn't go look, ignored that comment, talked about maths, and just proceeded to act like this mistake has not ever happened before. And it seemed scummy to me.
I'm not sure if that would be scummy, but thankfully it doesn't matter, because that's not what happened! At the point that you pointed it out (point) I had already dropped the topic and I didn't bring it up afterwards.
Blah. A reread doesn't make you look less scummy at all.
Vote: silverspawn
FWIW, I don't think you were lying about forgetting.
Blah. A reread doesn't make you look less scummy at all.
Vote: silverspawn
FWIW, I don't think you were lying about forgetting.
so you're voting me for forgetting something?
Blah. A reread doesn't make you look less scummy at all.
Vote: silverspawn
FWIW, I don't think you were lying about forgetting.
so you're voting me for forgetting something?
No, I'm voting for you, basically, because of the way you hopped on my case, then backed off when a few people thought you were scummy for hopping on my case, & then seized upon my reasoning for voting for you as particularly bad and used that to distract people (including me) from the real reasons that others had voted for you.
And the more you respond, the more I am happy with my vote where it is.
“Let's just agree to disagree,” the hook-handed man replied, using a tiresome expression which here means “You're probably right, but I'm too embarrassed to admit it.”
i: You did XX, that's scummy
s: I didn't do XX, here is what I actually did
i: okay, let me reread
i: you did YY, that's scummy
s: I didn't do YY, here is what I actually did
i: you are saying that every time, that's scummy!
But you were scum in Futuramafia. How are you going to defend yourself against this overwhelming evidence?
I think you might want to unvote, because I might be on L-1, and I am as much town now as I was scum in futuramafia. unless you actually have a reason for... well, no, even then.
Well maybe you're not; I thought at first you were reading it differently. Anyway, I was referring to what Ash said in his speccy in the game that just ended.
I think you might want to unvote, because I might be on L-1, and I am as much town now as I was scum in futuramafia. unless you actually have a reason for... well, no, even then.
Really? Fug.
Vote: iguana
Dammit, how can everyone be at L-1?
Vote: WW
I don't know if that was L-1 on igua, but it was probably close yeah.
I don't know if that was L-1 on igua, but it was probably close yeah.
it was? I thought there was like 1 vote on him and that was mine.
I didn't hop on your case. Hopping on implies that someone else made the case and I sheeped it. I did no such thing. I was the one who made the case.
I likewise did not back off when people found me scummy for it.
so.
let's just forget the scum slip thing for now.
I you may infer from my frustration upon being found scummy it was something I saw coming, too. I backed off, if you want to call it that, when you gave elaborate examples of your mafia stuff and forum survivor stuff, because those invalidated the case. The slip made you scummy because not!posting!alot!in!QTs!iguanaiguana is more likely to bold incorrectly as scum than as town, while actual!iguanaiguana isn't really. In other words, I stopped perusing the case when it was clear that the case was really bad.
And I stated that you're scummy later because you were scummy later. You're being scummy right now, too.
In fact, let's just Vote: Awacluswell... Awaclus has voted for me in his first post of every single game since Futuramafia, without exception, including the games where I wasn't even playing because I was modding.
Futuramafia has nothing to do with anything.
I disagree. I would say you backed off here:so.
let's just forget the scum slip thing for now.
and I didn't concede anything. I said let us stop talking about it because talking about it isn't particularly helpful.
You're telling me you just stumbled on the two most popular wagons randomly Awaclus ?
M29 - Archetype, was mod
Also, which post of Hydrad's?
Also, I'm totally not used to you doing anything other than lurking, talking about jetlag, or saying "I'm the doctor!"
I like this new scumhunting version of you!
So : people who played with igua before (as town, preferably) : how did he react to pressure ?
At least Iguanaiguana and Faust know I'm town, right guys?
Also, which post of Hydrad's?
Also, I'm totally not used to you doing anything other than lurking, talking about jetlag, or saying "I'm the doctor!"
I like this new scumhunting version of you!
I personally find it really scummy of EgorK
At least Iguanaiguana and Faust know I'm town, right guys?
At least Iguanaiguana and Faust know I'm town, right guys?
???
Is the case on me that qI am more active than usual?
No, the case is 'I feel like I have interacted with them in particular in Mafia, they can read me very easily.'At least Iguanaiguana and Faust know I'm town, right guys?
???
I think his logic (at least for me) is something along the lines of "I like him and got to meet him in person, so I will assume he's town."
Perhaps for Faust he is thinking of Faust's constant and excessive defense of him? I have no clue, that one is harder to figure out...
Anyway, Sorry RR, but you get no such pass from me : /
Is the case on me that qI am more active than usual?
I think you're active, but not really productive, which is slightly scummy. Also gut.
Ok, I am persuadedIn case anyone's forgotten, Hydrad's last post was one about an hour and half earlier, with several intervening EgorK posts, and it was only four words long: "fair enough I guess?"
Vote: Hydrad. His last post is really weird, in scum Hydrad weird way
Hmf. Actually, much as this looks like I'm just insta-caving, I just had a thought that makes me not like an SS vote any more.
unvote
Bear with me while i think of somewhere else to put it.
Vote: Haddock:o
Is the case on me that qI am more active than usual?
I think you're active, but not really productive, which is slightly scummy. Also gut.
I just really don't see much going around. Yuma's claim is some linear combination of VT and named townie for me. Iguana case was interesting, but he persuaded me and came out even townie out of it. Hydrad seems scummy to me. You feels strange, but you aleays feel strange. Teproc is null, silver is slight town, others had not done much
Haddock, you are missing context of Hydrad post, namely quote and his vote at the time (still same I think?)You'll have to tell me who he was voting for, I can't track it, but I saw the quote, I don't think it really changes much...
I agree Faust seems a bit strange here. The Day 1 Faust I am used to is leading the way, reading heavily into the smallest of tells, tunneling people and picking apart their reactions on his hunt for scum.
Admittedly, that was Traitor!Faust in RMM28, but as traitor I think his first priority was to act more or less identically to town!Faust until he figured out who his partners were.
Why the change in attitude, scum!hunting!God!of!F!DS?
Man, you just let Faust talk you down. Read your sig!
Man, I'm suprised no one has gone after me for lurking.
I want to be proactive, but there's really nothing I can do. Even if I had reads, my reads are more inaccurate than my views on Scout.
Man, I'm suprised no one has gone after me for lurking.
I want to be proactive, but there's really nothing I can do. Even if I had reads, my reads are more inaccurate than my views on Scout.
No, no no. I'm saying my reads are very accurate, and the only thing more accurate than them are my views on Scout.Man, I'm suprised no one has gone after me for lurking.
I want to be proactive, but there's really nothing I can do. Even if I had reads, my reads are more inaccurate than my views on Scout.
So you admit that your views on scout are inaccurate? Are you scum? Real Roadrunner would never do that!
No, no no. I'm saying my reads are very accurate, and the only thing more accurate than them are my views on Scout.Man, I'm suprised no one has gone after me for lurking.
I want to be proactive, but there's really nothing I can do. Even if I had reads, my reads are more inaccurate than my views on Scout.
So you admit that your views on scout are inaccurate? Are you scum? Real Roadrunner would never do that!
Guys. I have teh feelz on Teproc. Guyyyyyys. :P
I feel he is at least 50% chance of being scum. I have nothing to back it up other than a sense that they're just going along with the crowd, playing a traditional safe day 1 scum. Nothing extraordinary, nothing too dull. As said before, I've never played them (him? yes?), so I could be off, but man. Teh feelz.
At around 30% you go after the person furiously.
I can't talk about current games.At around 30% you go after the person furiously.
I doubt that.
But 0% is a null read.
Wouldn't it be 50%? Where everything above is scummy, everything below is towny?But 0% is a null read.
no, the % is the likeliness of being scum. 0% means you are 100% sure someone is town. 25% in this case is a null read. Everything above is scummy, everything below towny.
Wouldn't it be 50%? Where everything above is scummy, everything below is towny?But 0% is a null read.
no, the % is the likeliness of being scum. 0% means you are 100% sure someone is town. 25% in this case is a null read. Everything above is scummy, everything below towny.
Wouldn't it be 50%? Where everything above is scummy, everything below is towny?
Well, mostly just the votes.+1.
vote: WW
I feel he is at least 50% chance of being scum. I have nothing to back it up other than a sense that they're just going along with the crowd, playing a traditional safe day 1 scum. Nothing extraordinary, nothing too dull. As said before, I've never played them (him? yes?), so I could be off, but man. Teh feelz.
Teproc is a guy, according to his forum profile.
And couldn't I just as easily turn this logic around on you? With your shocking total of six posts?
Eh?
Eh?
SS is voting me, hoping to pressure me into saying something scummy. Don't worry about it, because he changes votes about as often as... something cliche. I'm looking to get this over with quickly, so we can get back to scum hunting. I'll be back when we're ready for that.
okay, vote: AmpharosI did I thing?
great job RR
Hello? Why did the game quiet down a ton?Some kind of holiday weekend in the US, isn't it? Not sure.
okay, vote: Ampharos
great job RR
You know what yellow Pokèmon guy? Let's talk about how you may be scum.
You're the wild card. We don't know how you behave as scum. Wouldn't it be the safe thing to lynch you because we don't know how you behave as scum?
(I'm playing devil's advocate)
Eh?
SS is voting me, hoping to pressure me into saying something scummy. Don't worry about it, because he changes votes about as often as... something cliche. I'm looking to get this over with quickly, so we can get back to scum hunting. I'll be back when we're ready for that.
no, I'm voting for you because you already said something scummy. Not looking to change it.
Fair. I think the standard thing for scum is to try to float by, looking useful without causing too much of a stir. There are exceptions, (Faust in the RMM game that just finished), but especially for people as myself who have played maybe 15 forum games total, we tend to not get TOO crazy as scum, especially early when not pressure. Of course, having just said all that, it makes everything I do as potential scum WIFOM, but hey. That's the game.
I don't agree with lynching me because you don't know how I play as scum. You want to lynch someone that either has a good potential of being scum (which really based on my playstyle I wouldn't lynch myself yet if I were another person in this game), or someone who will give boatloads of info on a flip. Just lynching people cause you don't know how they play isn't very productive.
Now, if the game goes later and you still have no idea if I'm scum or not, then you seriously start asking yourself: could this guy be scum? But again you will probably end up realizing I'm not. Course, I can't make up your mind for you; I'm just being honest about what you will probably end up thinking.
Good stuff. As Peyton Manning once said: "I like it."
His scum tells are
- Look, I am calmly thinking about the possibility of scum!me, but it doesn't matter, since it's all hypothetical
- LOOK, I TOTALLY DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE!
These are the most important ones.
There's also
- Look, I consider your scum read on me to be valid
- Look, I am totally calm about the option of lynching me and am judging it objectively
- Obligatory 'you will realize I'm town' near the end
All of those (except maybe the last one if you take it out of context) are more likely to be from fairly new scum than fairly new town
Those are actually good points.
What do you think about Haddock?
Also, consider the fact that I'm not that new (around 15 forum games and several hundred irc
did you really play about 15 forum mafia games? can you provide links?
Better is to say: How can I help you realize I'm town? I want to clear myself as fast as possible so we can move on. Thanks :)
did you really play about 15 forum mafia games? can you provide links?
None that are on publically accessable forums, sorry :(
Plus they are under different names so I could just be making it up.
My big problem with Ampharos claiming to be a veteran here is that he's not really doing anything to help town very much...
I mean, 'take a look at Teproc' does me little good when I already have taken a look at Teproc and what I see is pretty null. What am I supposed to be looking for? 'Teh Feelz'?
My big problem with Ampharos claiming to be a veteran here is that he's not really doing anything to help town very much...
I mean, 'take a look at Teproc' does me little good when I already have taken a look at Teproc and what I see is pretty null. What am I supposed to be looking for? 'Teh Feelz'?
To be fair, Hydrad has also played above 15 forum mafia games I'm sure, and I don't remember him doing much for town either.
None that are on publically accessable forums, sorry :(
Awaclus, EgorK, Hydrad:
What's with the lurkiness?
did you really play about 15 forum mafia games? can you provide links?
None that are on publically accessable forums, sorry :(
Plus they are under different names so I could just be making it up.
So describe to me how you play as scum.
My big problem with Ampharos claiming to be a veteran here is that he's not really doing anything to help town very much...
I mean, 'take a look at Teproc' does me little good when I already have taken a look at Teproc and what I see is pretty null. What am I supposed to be looking for? 'Teh Feelz'?
To be fair, Hydrad has also played above 15 forum mafia games I'm sure, and I don't remember him doing much for town either.
You mean the speccy?
I agree Faust seems a bit strange here. The Day 1 Faust I am used to is leading the way, reading heavily into the smallest of tells, tunneling people and picking apart their reactions on his hunt for scum.
Admittedly, that was Traitor!Faust in RMM28, but as traitor I think his first priority was to act more or less identically to town!Faust until he figured out who his partners were.
Why the change in attitude, scum!hunting!God!of!F!DS?
Vote Count 1.3:
iguanaiguana (1): Teproc
silverspawn (3): yuma Hydrad, faust
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): iguanaiguana
Ampharos (1): silverspawn
Teproc (1): Ampharos
faust (1): EgorK
Haddock (1): Witherweaver
EgorK (1): Haddock
Not Voting (2): RR, 2.7
A lot of water from Ampharos. Reason to do this as either alignment escapes me
What does stand out is the person who is pushing to lynch said "weird playing" person the most. Conveniently that happens to be the person I am voting for? So I'll leave my vote where it was and encourage others to go that way as well.
What does stand out is the person who is pushing to lynch said "weird playing" person the most. Conveniently that happens to be the person I am voting for? So I'll leave my vote where it was and encourage others to go that way as well.
that's a thoroughly bad idea, and I don't appreciate you pretending like I am pushing Amph because he is 'weird'. I'm not even sure if I used the word weird. the case was a short list of things that I said are more likely to come from scum than town.
What does stand out is the person who is pushing to lynch said "weird playing" person the most.
aren't you saying that here?What does stand out is the person who is pushing to lynch said "weird playing" person the most.
Are we pushing anyone's lynch right now? The day ends Dec. 8, and while I definitely want a lynch, it seems like what's in the best interest of town is to put as much scrutiny on as many people as possible before that happens. Letting people fly under the radar is what's bad; that's why I'm voting for Ampharos right now.
But you are pushing his lynch, yes? So I feel the premise and the intent of my point about you stands.
@Ampharos
Any particular reason we didn't hear all this theory from you during your first game?
Are we pushing anyone's lynch right now? The day ends Dec. 8, and while I definitely want a lynch, it seems like what's in the best interest of town is to put as much scrutiny on as many people as possible before that happens. Letting people fly under the radar is what's bad; that's why I'm voting for Ampharos right now.
And here I was thinking you were voting for Ampharos because you thought he was scum. Silly me.
@Ampharos
Any particular reason we didn't hear all this theory from you during your first game?
Fair point, I thought about it myself.
The answer most likely stems from not having played here before, and the fact that was an RMM game.
Not having played here before: was feeling site meta, who (in)famous players were, etc. I'm not big on reading past games, so it was my first taste of how the game is player here.
RMM game: my role was bodyguard/doctor thingy, and I was sitting in a perfect place to sit back and use that role to the most of it's ability. I saw no reason to change where things were, so I didn't go all HAM. This game I'd much rather be a major part of the town discussion/hunt, assuming I make it out of this first day.
Hello everyone, I am bored. I am also in this corner of the Internet once again. The stuff I've seen...
Anyway, it's super late, and it's usually around this time I'm struck right in the face by inspiration. So, welcome to Roadrunner's Giant and Pointless essays, this one is about Yellow Pokèmon guy. And about how he isn't scum. He accuses Teproc and y'all flip out. So now it's my turn to flip out.
So, first, everyone just wants Teproc to live cause he's back from the dead, he hasn't played forum games since 2004, etc. So as soon as YPG (Yellow Pokemon guy) accuses him, we gotta put YPG down. I ain't doing that. My vote didn't even go through.
And what the heck, guys? Unless he has a huge scum slip, like he says 'my partners,' or something really obvious, you can't accuse him. Anything 'scummy' that he might do could just be a part of his meta. Like how I act like a typical scum so Ashersky (bless his heart) always goes after me. He's never been right! And now I must stand up and defend YPG, not because he is too weak to defend himself, but because no one will listen to him. Like how no one listened to Iguanaiguana in RMM and no one listened to me in Switch (even though Switch Mafia is a terrible example). Apparently N00bs don't get a say.
What else? Oh yeah, apparently I got a scum slip out of him, courtesy of SS. No one has pointed it out. Why haven't they? Oh yeah, because it doesn't flippin' exist.
Faust, WW and Awaclus. Three veterans. They've done next to nothing, besides Faust making things personal with Iguanaiguana and Awaclus quoting entire posts. It's frustrating to me. We have like 10 days and we are going to make the usual mistakes. Draw out D1, guys. Play smart. Destroy this wagon.
Go after me if you want, I don't care. I'm unstoppable. I've never been mislynched, and I never will. Even though everyone will see this essay as scummy and force a claim out of me.
Oh, and Yuma. Is his Internet still down?
Maybe people take Thanksgiving weekend more seriously than I thought they did.
Oh, and here's my threat: I will post one of these, every day, if need be. This only took about ten minutes. I can post more of these. And you will feel inclined to read them. And you will waste time doing so. And I have gotten completely off topic.
I claim Iron ManI will claim with Yuma.
er, don't. claiming early is only a good idea if you have a specific reason for i.t
well that is enough encouragement....
So I am a Random Vig aka The Hulk. I have no control over my power except whether or not to instigate it at night. If I do... someone other than me dies, but I can't choose who.
....
Honestly my main purpose is to get people to think that I am townie because this just isn't a role that makes any sense to fake claim regardless of alignment
(not using the PR during the night)
I would advise some precaution though, something like yuma announces whether or not he shoots prior to each night.
I have already stated that I don't plan on using it until the end game anyone seeing me targeting someone until the end game can go ahead and just straight up lynch me as I don't think using it in the early or midgame is a good idea.
this game is weird
vote: faust for not getting things moving
but now the day has actually become productive! so that's great.
town reads on Hydrad, igu, and Awaclus. no scum reads though. that means PoE. PoE means that scum is Ampharos. vote: Ampharos. who even is this guy?
Ashersky (bless his heart) always goes after me. He's never been right!
[...]
I've never been mislynched
Ashersky (bless his heart) always goes after me. He's never been right!
[...]
I've never been mislynched
You know, you could make stronger point if you wouldn't lie.
Vote Count 1.4:
iguanaiguana (1): Teproc
silverspawn (2): yuma, Hydrad
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Ampharos (3): silverspawn, iguanaiguana, faust
Teproc (1): Ampharos
faust (1): EgorK
Haddock (1): Witherweaver
EgorK (1): Haddock
Not Voting (2): RR, 2.7
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.
Oh, and Yuma. Is his Internet still down?
Are you telling us that you for sure are not using your power? Or will you. (Or maybe I haven't read that far down the thread yet). Because I don't want you to come back tomorrow after 5 people die overnight (obvious exaggeration) and just come out and say you decided to just use your role when you say you aren't going to.
And I'm voting for no one. Why? I don't have any scum reads. It might be a good idea to vote to put pressure somewhere, but that doesn't feel great right now.
But I also don't have a better case.
Vote: Teproc I am at least 50% confident Teproc is scum, purely on feel. (I acknowledge I've never played with them before, and could be misreading style.)
Who was it that suspected teproc just barely? I thought that post a bit scummy, not suspecting teproc but the way it was presented. Don't have time to go back and look now.
Who was it that suspected teproc just barely? I thought that post a bit scummy, not suspecting teproc but the way it was presented. Don't have time to go back and look now.
Obviously I disagree. It's clearly, and openly, based on gut, on a palyer that hadn't gotten any attention before... not the typical early scum vote I think. Granted Ampharos doesn't know me at all so the usual reasons I tend not to suspect Teproc voters don't apply, must remember that.
No, the case is 'I feel like I have interacted with them in particular in Mafia, they can read me very easily.'At least Iguanaiguana and Faust know I'm town, right guys?
???
I think his logic (at least for me) is something along the lines of "I like him and got to meet him in person, so I will assume he's town."
Perhaps for Faust he is thinking of Faust's constant and excessive defense of him? I have no clue, that one is harder to figure out...
Anyway, Sorry RR, but you get no such pass from me : /
I won't try the tactic you mentioned until I'm at like L-2.
Eh?
SS is voting me, hoping to pressure me into saying something scummy. Don't worry about it, because he changes votes about as often as... something cliche. I'm looking to get this over with quickly, so we can get back to scum hunting. I'll be back when we're ready for that.
His scum tells are
- Look, I am calmly thinking about the possibility of scum!me, but it doesn't matter, since it's all hypothetical
- LOOK, I TOTALLY DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE!
These are the most important ones.
There's also
- Look, I consider your scum read on me to be valid
- Look, I am totally calm about the option of lynching me and am judging it objectively
- Obligatory 'you will realize I'm town' near the end
All of those (except maybe the last one if you take it out of context) are more likely to be from fairly new scum than fairly new town
I'M NOT CALM ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY!!!! IT IS FREAKING ME OUT!
I AM SO TOTALLY PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE, SO MUCH THAT IT MAKES ME TYPE IN CAPS AND MISS PUNCUTATION!!!111oneoneone
But wait! For only $29.99 more, you get:
Your scum read of me is totally not valid in any way!
I am peeing my pants cause I'm so scared about getting lynched!
You'll never get the fact that I'm town, so why try?
----------
In all seriousness, that last one is kinda true. I see what you're doing, but you're just wasting my time (I would say our time but technically you don't know my role, so you get a pass this time.). Go at least look at Teproc. Also, consider the fact that I'm not that new (around 15 forum games and several hundred irc) and have developed my own playstyle.
(There are 15 scum tells in the above sentences; if you don't get them all, you're scum!!!!1111 one)
did you really play about 15 forum mafia games? can you provide links?
did you really play about 15 forum mafia games? can you provide links?
None that are on publically accessable forums, sorry :(
Plus they are under different names so I could just be making it up.
Vote: Yellow Pokèmon Guy
@Ampharos
Any particular reason we didn't hear all this theory from you during your first game?
Fair point, I thought about it myself.
The answer most likely stems from not having played here before, and the fact that was an RMM game.
Not having played here before: was feeling site meta, who (in)famous players were, etc. I'm not big on reading past games, so it was my first taste of how the game is player here.
RMM game: my role was bodyguard/doctor thingy, and I was sitting in a perfect place to sit back and use that role to the most of it's ability. I saw no reason to change where things were, so I didn't go all HAM. This game I'd much rather be a major part of the town discussion/hunt, assuming I make it out of this first day.
Ashersky (bless his heart) always goes after me. He's never been right!
[...]
I've never been mislynched
You know, you could make stronger point if you wouldn't lie.
Has ashersky ever been right in a game we're allowed to talk about?
Man, I think I need to step up my activity level if I'm already forgotten on reads lists...
I guess Unvote for now.
Blah. A reread doesn't make you look less scummy at all.So I guess I'm torn. iguana is active though, that a good thing.
Vote: Silverspawn
And, obviously, Awaclus.
Haddock has a lot of empty posts, ... mildly scummy.:(
Haddock is town by the way, just putting it down now so that I'll remember when rereading.
Well Teproc's response to Ampharos going after him strikes me as scummy, kind of in a buddying way. Though actually I agree with most of Teproc's reads list, though I don't think I'd say that Silver is "very townie", and I don't really think Iguana is scummy.
but why would scum draw attention to themselves like that?
Awaclus is being his usual anti-town self. So... null.
Awaclus is being his usual anti-town self. So... null.
I'm not anti-town.
It makes perfect sense:but why would scum draw attention to themselves like that?
This doesn't make sense.. how would you know what you would do would draw attention to yourself if you don't know why I find you scummy?
PPE: Um OK, WW. I could be accused of lurking I guess, but other than that I don't think you've given reasons. I know you found my SS thing scummy; as I said I have my reasons for it which I can't explain right now - but why would scum draw attention to themselves like that?If it's not clear, what I'm saying is that I think you're voting me because of my behaviour re. silverspawn.
Never compromising on one's meta because "well, it's my meta", is anti-town.
Never compromising on one's meta because "well, it's my meta", is anti-town.
My meta is pro-town, so I don't see why not compromising on it would be anti-town.
So, you are verifying once and for all what an incredible waste of time it is for anyone to try to argue about this with you.
and oh fuck it why do I even bother talking this is just going to get a pointless response to lead to more pointlessness.
I'm protown because fuck squirrels.
I'm protown because fuck squirrels.
While you're here, what are your thoughts on Ampharos ?
Haddock is town by the way, just putting it down now so that I'll remember when rereading.
Well my vote officially sucks!Scumslip, vote: igu!
<b> unvote </b> for now...
Where to go next? <b> Vote: Roadrunner </b> seems okay fir now.
Just kidding, unvote
Could I see igu doing this for town points? Maybbeee..... not really though.
Unfortunately his latest reads list wasn't all that hedgy, but the point still stands, those were two very, very townie posts.Ummmm... the hedging is implicit? :P
Unfortunately his latest reads list wasn't all that hedgy, but the point still stands, those were two very, very townie posts.Ummmm... the hedging is implicit? :P
Yeah don't take my latest reads list to be the be-all-and-end-all, I definitely didn't mean it that way.
Mostly these are just vague feelings, none of my reads go any way past the "pretty dang mild" category.
PPE: No, WW I hadn't. That's been said before, actually, I'll take it as a compliment as it was then.
To clarify. This is my 3rd game of forum mafia of any kind ever, if you include the ongoing game. (I've played a TINY bit irl).
Yuma: The claim does a ton. This is so extremely dangerous to do as scum this early in the game. By no means does the claim mean he couldn’t be scum, but it’s just bad scum practice to do this right away. Maybe if the claim was a bomb or something, but it’s not. Additionally, most people seem to have accepted Yuma’s claim, and instead of just armchairing and popcorning, Yuma got into the thick of things, getting all debatey and stuff. This seems more town play to me.
Yuma: The claim does a ton. This is so extremely dangerous to do as scum this early in the game. By no means does the claim mean he couldn’t be scum, but it’s just bad scum practice to do this right away. Maybe if the claim was a bomb or something, but it’s not. Additionally, most people seem to have accepted Yuma’s claim, and instead of just armchairing and popcorning, Yuma got into the thick of things, getting all debatey and stuff. This seems more town play to me.
To be clear, yuma being active and debatey and stuff is just a yuma!tell. Agreed about the claim though.
ok... well imma thinking vote: egorK
@silver : what was scummy about his first post ?
ok... well imma thinking vote: egorK
Was your trigger "If he makes one more useful post, I swear to God !" ?
@silver : what was scummy about his first post ?
You've been around a lot more than I have lately. Have there been many lurker lynches in the early days recently ?
I think RR seems town.Yay. Should I do an opposite OMGUS and say you seem town for saying I seem town?
Yuma, can you elaborate why my post is filler?
Also I stopped posting not because being called out, but rather because of week end
You've been around a lot more than I have lately. Have there been many lurker lynches in the early days recently ?
I think the idea of a strict lurker lynch has been quashed completely (thankfully). But the scummy lurker lynch is still a thing. For example in the game we were just in GOP I pushed through some "scummy lurker" mislynches on EgorK and Xerxes as scum. both I felt were valid pseudo cases, which I why I pushed them through as scum.
So with that in mind I could see EgorK thinking "man i got lynched for lurking as town, that could happen to me as mafia even without me doing anything scummy. I should probably post a bit more to avoid that."
Of course EgorK could think the same thing as town. But in that case I think he would continue to post more even despite being called out, whereas I think as scum once something isn't working you revert back to your old self.
What does still exist (and rightfully so) is the idea that it is on a certain level a good idea to keep active posters alive longer as they will be easier to read at a later date compared to low volume posters. It is the same reason that high volume posters that are town tend to be NKed early.
RR, no, I am not joking. Your last post also has the classic tell of putting acuser as top town readYou're not at the top of my list, it's not in order. Well, actually, you are my top town read, but you being on top was just a coincidence. And barely any scum-hunting has gotten done today. But here are people I would be willing/happy to pressure:
Besides, making other people think you as town is main target for scum. For town it is good, but main thing is scum hunting
PPE 1
Yuma, can you elaborate why my post is filler?
Also I stopped posting not because being called out, but rather because of week end
I think out of all the players that you could have looked at RR is probably the least useful.
And I figured that might be the case, which is why when I saw that you were online and posting I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but the benefit of the doubt was left wanting...
I can point out a problem in your logic: I am town. Only scum wants to lynch town. That would make you scum.
Yuma, can you elaborate why my post is filler?
Also I stopped posting not because being called out, but rather because of week end
I think out of all the players that you could have looked at RR is probably the least useful.
And I figured that might be the case, which is why when I saw that you were online and posting I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but the benefit of the doubt was left wanting...
I assume then you think my case on RR is bad. Then you can point out problems in my logic?
Well "I'm guessing this is what scum would post here" applies to any scumhunting ever so...
Ok, Egork. What do you think of Ampharos ? He was the main subject of conversation over the week-end I think.
A lot happened on weekend? There are same 4 pages generated today by noon, about the same amount as on 2 days before. And out of them only YPG stuff caught my attention, and I already commented on that. Also you are repeating yourself, when you drove my lynch in GOP you also told that you "guessed what scum would post here". This is starting to be alarming
calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team
calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team
calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team
I seriously doubt that.
Ampharos (1): faust
faust (1): Ampharos
Ampharos (1): faust
faust (1): Ampharos
That's too cute.
A lot happened on weekend? There are same 4 pages generated today by noon, about the same amount as on 2 days before. And out of them only YPG stuff caught my attention, and I already commented on that. Also you are repeating yourself, when you drove my lynch in GOP you also told that you "guessed what scum would post here". This is starting to be alarming
There was enough that I needed to get caught up on when I came back, so yeah, there was what I would term "a lot"
And if you are alarmed you should vote for me. Don't try and shrug off my suspicion on you by passively alluding to a game where I was scum. Just because I replicated a scum hunting tactic as scum doesn't mean it isn't legitimate to use it as town.
Ampharos (1): faust
faust (1): Ampharos
That's too cute.
Scum partners, obv.
calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team
I seriously doubt that.
I do too
Nonetheless, vote: igu. His reads list screams scum to me. I'm not sure why yet, but once I know, I'll probably let you know.
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Wow, I don't get what you're saying here... I mean, I really don't. This description could be under "Ampharos is scummy" without having to change anything. What exactly points to him being town? It is most curios how the wagon suddenly puffed away for no real reason.
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Wow, I don't get what you're saying here... I mean, I really don't. This description could be under "Ampharos is scummy" without having to change anything. What exactly points to him being town? It is most curios how the wagon suddenly puffed away for no real reason.
Maybe I am just showing my newbie idiocy here, but I still feel like putting all of your thoughts out into the open is townie, because scum would prefer to keep their ideas shrouded in secrecy. They are the ones with things to hide. So yeah Ampharos' reads list makes him look town, whereas the people who just attack everything while not contributing their thoughts themselves still look like scum to me.
If this is stupid or wrong, then I guess you'd better school me in the ways of playing the game backwards.
Wow, lots happened. Including some reads lists. Now the game feels like it is really moving.
Time to post my own reads list I think.
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Wow, I don't get what you're saying here... I mean, I really don't. This description could be under "Ampharos is scummy" without having to change anything. What exactly points to him being town? It is most curios how the wagon suddenly puffed away for no real reason.
Maybe I am just showing my newbie idiocy here, but I still feel like putting all of your thoughts out into the open is townie, because scum would prefer to keep their ideas shrouded in secrecy. They are the ones with things to hide. So yeah Ampharos' reads list makes him look town, whereas the people who just attack everything while not contributing their thoughts themselves still look like scum to me.
If this is stupid or wrong, then I guess you'd better school me in the ways of playing the game backwards.
I don't know what I did to deserve this kind of attitude... but well. You could have explained what you meant with that read, which would have benefitted town. Instead you are agitating against me (I think? I'm not even sure. Where have I kept my ideas "shrouded in secrecy"?) and suddenly bring up a new point (Ampharos's reads list) that you didn't even mention before.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
there's a lot that would be tough to call constructive or helpful.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
That's interesting; in your previous reads list, iguana and silver only showed up as light town. What changed? Or are you just in a gambling mood?
And WW is a blank page as always. His playstyle is way more anti-town than that of Awaclus.
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
Is it Iguana being scummy or actually thinking that? Just because he says something that could be scummy does not mean it is. Most everything in this game is WIFOM and up to personal opinion.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
Hey Egor, what's your main reason for thinking I'm scum?
there's a lot that would be tough to call constructive or helpful.
Can you support this statement with evidence?
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
Is it Iguana being scummy or actually thinking that? Just because he says something that could be scummy does not mean it is. Most everything in this game is WIFOM and up to personal opinion.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
eh... what, exactly, is the point of this post?
the concept of non-meta arguments means assuming that X is a scum tell for A because X is a scum tell for most people. Clearly, non-meta arguments can therefore always be wrong, if X is in fact not a scum tell for A. This is a general rule and has nothing to do with my post. Do you suggest that we should stop using any non-meta arguments? If not, then what are you trying to say?
Okay. Then I won't get lynched.Hey Egor, what's your main reason for thinking I'm scum?
What I posted in initial case. And now also, as Teproc put it, "gut"
Well I thought these posts were helpful, or I wouldn't have posted them. Just because your style is lenghty posts doesn't make short commentary any less valuable. In 384, I am calling out iguana on his weird justification of his vote, in 395 I am pointing out that RR paints an inaccurate picture and in 420 I share my read on a player in the spotlight. I don't know why any of these should be considered "not constructive".
PPE: 2
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Wow, I don't get what you're saying here... I mean, I really don't. This description could be under "Ampharos is scummy" without having to change anything. What exactly points to him being town? It is most curios how the wagon suddenly puffed away for no real reason.
Maybe I am just showing my newbie idiocy here, but I still feel like putting all of your thoughts out into the open is townie, because scum would prefer to keep their ideas shrouded in secrecy. They are the ones with things to hide. So yeah Ampharos' reads list makes him look town, whereas the people who just attack everything while not contributing their thoughts themselves still look like scum to me.
If this is stupid or wrong, then I guess you'd better school me in the ways of playing the game backwards.
I don't know what I did to deserve this kind of attitude... but well. You could have explained what you meant with that read, which would have benefitted town. Instead you are agitating against me (I think? I'm not even sure. Where have I kept my ideas "shrouded in secrecy"?) and suddenly bring up a new point (Ampharos's reads list) that you didn't even mention before.
I think I also want to come out and just say that I want to drop the Faust thing from my sig. I put it in because another player suggested it but on further thought I don't really like having something negative about Faust in my sig. He bested me last game, and I don't have bad feelings anymore. I think I just want to leave it at that.
Oh yeah, I do that with Iguana too. He's a really cool guy IRL. He'd make a good scum.
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
Is it Iguana being scummy or actually thinking that? Just because he says something that could be scummy does not mean it is. Most everything in this game is WIFOM and up to personal opinion.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
eh... what, exactly, is the point of this post?
the concept of non-meta arguments means assuming that X is a scum tell for A because X is a scum tell for most people. Clearly, non-meta arguments can therefore always be wrong, if X is in fact not a scum tell for A. This is a general rule and has nothing to do with my post. Do you suggest that we should stop using any non-meta arguments? If not, then what are you trying to say?
I'm saying I think you both are town and that I hope soon you will start working together instead of presenting a division for scum to exploit. I also acknowledge that I could be totally wrong.
given that you are my top scum read, it would be rather strange if you didn't disagree with my reads.
Generally, I can tell you that similarity of reads is a very, very bad metric for catching scum, particularly on day 1.
And WW is a blank page as always. His playstyle is way more anti-town than that of Awaclus.
Ha.
given that you are my top scum read, it would be rather strange if you didn't disagree with my reads.
Generally, I can tell you that similarity of reads is a very, very bad metric for catching scum, particularly on day 1.
given that you are my top scum read, it would be rather strange if you didn't disagree with my reads.
Generally, I can tell you that similarity of reads is a very, very bad metric for catching scum, particularly on day 1.
It is not just that your reads are different, but that your reasons don't make any sense to me. I call Yuma my top townread because of he made a very authentic looking claim right out of the gates; therefore, we must both be scum?
Like a lot of your other posts against me, this looks more like manipulation than sincerity. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. That is how it looks to me.
Meta sidenote : as it happens I genuinely don't know what Egork is referring to when he says he "can't talk about something" because I'm not involved in other games... but saying that way only makes people wonder, which defeats the purpose of not talking about ongoing games. I think the best way to approach is to say "gut read" or something.
given that you are my top scum read, it would be rather strange if you didn't disagree with my reads.
Generally, I can tell you that similarity of reads is a very, very bad metric for catching scum, particularly on day 1.
It is not just that your reads are different, but that your reasons don't make any sense to me. I call Yuma my top townread because of he made a very authentic looking claim right out of the gates; therefore, we must both be scum?
Like a lot of your other posts against me, this looks more like manipulation than sincerity. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. That is how it looks to me.
the motivation for scum!yuma to fakeclaim what he did is pretty simple. it's the same as the motivation for town!yuma. He did it for towncred. I really don't see why he shouldn't be capable of doing that as scum.
Sure, it's still worth some town points, but not too many.
The reason why I semi-seriously called you a team was your excessive buddying.
Right, I wasn't pointing fingers anyway. To your point : it shouldn't have weight. Because you can't talk about it. Talking about how you can't talk about it defeats the purpose. This thing you're thinking simply cannot be used as an argument, because it's from an ongoing game. The best would simply be to not mention at all I guess.
Right, I wasn't pointing fingers anyway. To your point : it shouldn't have weight. Because you can't talk about it. Talking about how you can't talk about it defeats the purpose. This thing you're thinking simply cannot be used as an argument, because it's from an ongoing game. The best would simply be to not mention at all I guess.
And that is a fair point and I agree when in a vacuum. But when specifically asked or called out to provide an explanation? I don't know....
like I wasn't going to go around explaining a silent read I had with meta game reasons, but when Egork specifically asks me I need to provide some sort of explanation. i can't just say nothing. I guess I could say "I have reasons but I can't mention them" but that is basically the same thing. But saying, "I have reasons and I don't want to tell you" isn't truthful nor is simply saying nothing.
Vote Count 1.3:
iguanaiguana (1): Teproc
silverspawn (3): yuma Hydrad, faust
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): iguanaiguana
Ampharos (1): silverspawn
Teproc (1): Ampharos
faust (1): EgorK
Haddock (1): Witherweaver
EgorK (1): Haddock
Not Voting (2): RR, 2.7
Wow. I don't think I have ever seen so many single (1) votes before. That is pretty impressive guys... Well done!
There's no reason for me to vote. One vote won't put pressure on anyone, and the people with pressure are people I don't want to lynch.
If you really need me to vote, then Vote: RR
Happy?
Okay. Why not?
Vote: Yuma
There's no reason for me to vote. One vote won't put pressure on anyone, and the people with pressure are people I don't want to lynch.
If you really need me to vote, then Vote: RR
Happy?
Okay! My 'argument' gets picked apart in seconds. You obviously want me to vote for someone Teproc. We will keep doing this until I hit the nail on the head. So, who is it you want me to vote for?
And Teproc, you better hope I'm not scum. Our interaction really looks like scum partners IMO.
How is it convenient for scum to claim ? This is a closed setup, so far all he/we know/s there are Trackers and Watchers who could catch him targeting someone. It also makes him vulnerable to a Role Cop. As I said earlier, if he ever uses his shot without having at least discussed with the town, then yeah, lynch him. There's also the fact that it's a pretty unlikely role for scum to have, so he would probably have to invent it which... possible, I suppose, but would surprise me.
As I said earlier, he could be a SK, but having an SK around isn't that bad for town.
PPE : yuma, to clarify, this is not your usual self-voting policy vote, right ? Since he switched.
How is it convenient for scum to claim ? This is a closed setup, so far all he/we know/s there are Trackers and Watchers who could catch him targeting someone. It also makes him vulnerable to a Role Cop. As I said earlier, if he ever uses his shot without having at least discussed with the town, then yeah, lynch him. There's also the fact that it's a pretty unlikely role for scum to have, so he would probably have to invent it which... possible, I suppose, but would surprise me.
As I said earlier, he could be a SK, but having an SK around isn't that bad for town.
PPE : yuma, to clarify, this is not your usual self-voting policy vote, right ? Since he switched.
It does go very well with the flavor though. If I was presented with that flavor, I'd probably come up with a similar role.
That said, I think yuma is town. At the very least not D1 lynch material.
How is that awesome? I'm just looking more and more like scum each time I type a message.And Teproc, you better hope I'm not scum. Our interaction really looks like scum partners IMO.
Haha, this is an awesome thing to say. I think I'm going to use it.
Could someone summarize the silverspawn case for me?
calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team
I seriously doubt that.
I do too
Nonetheless, vote: igu. His reads list screams scum to me. I'm not sure why yet, but once I know, I'll probably let you know.
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
Is it Iguana being scummy or actually thinking that? Just because he says something that could be scummy does not mean it is. Most everything in this game is WIFOM and up to personal opinion.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
eh... what, exactly, is the point of this post?
the concept of non-meta arguments means assuming that X is a scum tell for A because X is a scum tell for most people. Clearly, non-meta arguments can therefore always be wrong, if X is in fact not a scum tell for A. This is a general rule and has nothing to do with my post. Do you suggest that we should stop using any non-meta arguments? If not, then what are you trying to say?
among similar threads gives me a feeling of fake "gut" scum hunting. Mainly, I don't actually believe that Silverspawn is subconsciously screaming "scum!" from that post. It makes me think that Silver is trying to look town by throwing off a lot of "feelings" posts. He's also throwing out a lot of votes in different places, which can, of course, be a townie thing to do, but it's also a thing to do because you think that's what you do as town.
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
we've been over this; you are obv!town.Why!does!everyone!do!this!
Wow, lots happened. Including some reads lists. Now the game feels like it is really moving.
Time to post my own reads list I think.
This section just gives me all the scum feels
This I have a problem with as well. "what, exactly, is the point of this post?" is more rhetoric than scumhunting. Followed by more theory talk.
RR is as obv!town as ever. that's good.
What about this?RR is as obv!town as ever. that's good.
This also.
we've been over this; you are obv!town.Why!does!everyone!do!this!
Seriously, no one has told me why.
Alright, if I'm so obviously town, then I have two questions:well, either because he thinks you're scummy or because he's scum and tried to appear towny.
1. Why is Egor voting for me?
2. What was my giveaway?sorry :P I won't answer that
What about this?RR is as obv!town as ever. that's good.
This also.
I don't believe you.What about this?RR is as obv!town as ever. that's good.
This also.
I'll explain later.
Of course you won't!
I swear, one of these days when I'm town I will act as scummy as I can. We'll see if people try to lynch me.
I will keep my vote where it is.
What else?
Oh yeah, I'm just gonna sit in the dark. Scum!this game (I did that wrong) are playing well. Also, my reads are trash.
PPE
PPE : yuma, to clarify, this is not your usual self-voting policy vote, right ? Since he switched.
Wow, lots happened. Including some reads lists. Now the game feels like it is really moving.
Time to post my own reads list I think."... because that will make me towny!"
The claim means a lot. The posts pushing the game further help more. Some people are leaning slight town on Yuma; to me Yuma is the only obv!town player here. Like, I would be really surprised if he was fakeclaiming his role, and scum with a random vig doesn't make any sense at all.Excessive buddying of a "semi-ic" is undoubtedly a scumtell (for newer players). Have you ever seen a new scum do the opposite?
Haddock: Like a lot of people, I'm having trouble reading Haddock. I want to say that most of his posts seem helpful, and that puts him on the slightly townier side of null for me.
Awaclus & Hydrad: I haven't seen enough from either player to have an opinion one way or another. Would like to see more attention paid to both.
He's close enough to null that I could still be convinced he's town, but still looking scummier than most other people.
anyone calling anyone obv!town
Vote: Yellow Pokèmon Guy
For the record, I disapprove of this... nickname ? I'd much prefer if we stuck to easily understandable abreviations if we must.
We could lynch Awaclus? He's scum all the time
vote: Awaclus
Also, because I darn well want to:
unvote
Vote: faust
vote: Haddock
pretty sure haddock was scummy. Awaclus vote was more of a joke
Also, because I darn well want to:
unvote
Vote: faust
I find it interesting how you have egork and haddock as kinda scummy people in your read list and then you vote faust. would you change faust to scummy read if you made another list right now?
okay, let's do this instead
vote: Hydrad
a reread reveals one post of content, the first one, which is scummy, and after that a lot of fluff and jokes. The jokes are pretty funny, but that doesn't make him any more town.
also not a lot of posts period.
ok... well imma thinking vote: egorK
Was your trigger "If he makes one more useful post, I swear to God !" ?
@silver : what was scummy about his first post ?
Nope. And I don't consider the post he just posted useful...
My thought was...
"hmmm he started out pretty active but once it was mentioned and some of his posts were questioned he clammed up and disappeared."
As I had that thought I saw that he was online and that he had stated he was going to do a reread of stuff over the weekend, so I thought I would give him a chance to see if he was posting and what he was going to post, hence my post stating I was thinking about moving my vote.
And when he posted it looked like a filler post to keep from being prodded but nothing more than that and so I felt he was continuing his keeping quiet schtick, which isn't unusual for EgorK, I will admit, but I did think that his being active early was. What struck me was how he changed once called out on it. If he had posted more and of more substance then I might have seen that as just him wanting to be more active and the blip in activity that I noticed an aberration. But right now I think he started out 1. as mafia 2. wanting to be more active so he wouldn't be a day1 or day2 lurker lynch 3. got called out for it 4. panicked a bit and went back into lurker mode.
So I am voting him. You should too!
I think RR seems town.
What do you mean by this? Confused.vote: Haddock
pretty sure haddock was scummy. Awaclus vote was more of a joke
Sadness...
As for Hydrad, IDK I guess I can see why someone might think that if they already think Hydrad and I look scummy. FWIW I'm not convinced at all Hydrad is town, but I have seen a few Hydrad games lately where he looked pretty scummy and then was able to come in, help town, and clear himself. I at least want to give him a chance to talk.
given that you are my top scum read, it would be rather strange if you didn't disagree with my reads.
Generally, I can tell you that similarity of reads is a very, very bad metric for catching scum, particularly on day 1.
It is not just that your reads are different, but that your reasons don't make any sense to me. I call Yuma my top townread because of he made a very authentic looking claim right out of the gates; therefore, we must both be scum?
Like a lot of your other posts against me, this looks more like manipulation than sincerity. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry. That is how it looks to me.
the motivation for scum!yuma to fakeclaim what he did is pretty simple. it's the same as the motivation for town!yuma. He did it for towncred. I really don't see why he shouldn't be capable of doing that as scum.
Sure, it's still worth some town points, but not too many.
The reason why I semi-seriously called you a team was your excessive buddying.
I suppose Yuma's role could be a scum role.. you get a random extra kill, so actually better for you than for town, though it has a chance of hurting you. Though, that harm is pretty major. Yuma is the type of guy that would claim it, as scum, for town credit. Except, the role as it's claimed is almost not usable for Town, so if scum!Yuma ever does use it it's pretty suspect. So then the it comes down to just trying to make himself a named townie.
At any rate, these kinds of early claims are by and large from town, not scum. Also well within town!Yuma meta.
and back to vote: ss
Sheeping is cool.
Vote: Silverspawn
I would say wait until igu flips scum but since I don't think that will make you scummier I can't
That would be a weird scum role I feel like. I maybe it would be something like randomly shoot a towny. I could see that. But randomly shooting anyone as a scum PR feels weird. But who knows I've never modded really or designed so I have no idea on what I'm talking about.
you can at least have a coherent conversation with WW about whether or not his playstyle is anti-town or not. As to whether it actually is or not isn't that important to me, it is being willing to talk about it and allow others to analyze it in a meaningful way that is... WW does that.
I would say wait until igu flips scum but since I don't think that will make you scummier I can't
I will wait until you flip to determine genuinety... and in the mean time I will worry more about credibility
That would be a weird scum role I feel like. I maybe it would be something like randomly shoot a towny. I could see that. But randomly shooting anyone as a scum PR feels weird. But who knows I've never modded really or designed so I have no idea on what I'm talking about.
I would play a hydrad designed game
WW's play does seem pretty antitown, but if that's normal maybe he's not scummy for it.
Other than his most recent posts (which are nullish) Hydrad has seemed pretty scummy, I could probably vote him if that became a thing.
Who else have we got? I'm voting Egor. Let's see. Don't want to vote RR or Teproc or Ampharos, or igu.
Maybe I could vote faust, but meh.
No I like Egor, he's still scummy to me.What do you mean by this? Confused.vote: Haddock
pretty sure haddock was scummy. Awaclus vote was more of a joke
Sadness...
you should also know by now, whenever there is a wagon day 1 on me that I am town and whomever I'm voting for is scum
Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
you should also know by now, whenever there is a wagon day 1 on me that I am town and whomever I'm voting for is scum
Is that an actual stat? If so thats actually interesting.
you can at least have a coherent conversation with WW about whether or not his playstyle is anti-town or not. As to whether it actually is or not isn't that important to me, it is being willing to talk about it and allow others to analyze it in a meaningful way that is... WW does that.
I've been liking ww so far actually.
Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
At least someone is sane.
Do you want to be town buddies?
I'm sorry, but I don't think you're towny. I know, but you didn't have to ask.
Your vote is great though.
the motivation for scum!yuma to fakeclaim what he did is pretty simple. it's the same as the motivation for town!yuma. He did it for towncred. I really don't see why he shouldn't be capable of doing that as scum.
Sure, it's still worth some town points, but not too many.
The reason why I semi-seriously called you a team was your excessive buddying.
back to vote: ss
I think this is how TA felt about me in GOP where he expected me to make sense, but something was just off (me being scum) so that while it was close I wasn't quite there...
If TA were in this game I think he would be all over this lynch.
you should also know by now, whenever there is a wagon day 1 on me that I am town and whomever I'm voting for is scum
since when are you so... cheap?
Anyway, I was looking for reasons you gave for voting me. So far I haven't found anything good.
I suppose Yuma's role could be a scum role.. you get a random extra kill, so actually better for you than for town, though it has a chance of hurting you. Though, that harm is pretty major. Yuma is the type of guy that would claim it, as scum, for town credit. Except, the role as it's claimed is almost not usable for Town, so if scum!Yuma ever does use it it's pretty suspect. So then the it comes down to just trying to make himself a named townie.
At any rate, these kinds of early claims are by and large from town, not scum. Also well within town!Yuma meta.
See the post above this one. And cheap? I have always been cheap... I blame my father.
I've never had a town!buddy. 😥
*wink wink*I've never had a town!buddy. 😥
well... you could have one this game? *nudge nudge*
but I don't agree with him on iguana...
*wink wink*
but I don't agree with him on iguana...
what part of my case don't you agree with?
I thought it was really good!
unfortunately, this is a towny post.
But I think you're really off at one thing - if the Hulk was on a list of fakeclaims, that doesn't make the narrative harder, it makes it easier. Now all that has to happen is for one of the scum who knows the flavor to think up a role. If the fakeclaim wasn't provided, that'd make it harder, because now he has to come up with way more.
Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
Sheeping is cool.
Vote: Silverspawn
interesting tm(how do I make it small...) a ss wagon. I'm curious to where this goes.
Also, because I darn well want to:
unvote
Vote: faust
I find it interesting how you have egork and haddock as kinda scummy people in your read list and then you vote faust. would you change faust to scummy read if you made another list right now?
You own Ichimaru (can't say IG in this game) some money. What do you mean by "interesting" here ?
Actually let's skip the unexplained vote thing. It's fun but this game is already too scattered.Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
This is a scummy, scummy vote. It gets by because Hydrad is Hydrad and he does this all the time but come on. I think Hydrad just says what he thinks all the time, and how does town!Hydrad think "oooh, I'm on a growing wagon, better get off it quickly for no reason".
I'm getting GOP Mafia flashbacks from this, where I let Hydrad get away with it because I kind of gave up any hope of reading him. I think town!Hydrad does at least try to help town when he's doing relevant stuff, and here I'm just getting a "whoopdidoo, who am I gonna vote now ? Who's a popular wagon, let's try that, could be fun".
Sheeping is cool.
Vote: Silverspawn
interesting tm(how do I make it small...) a ss wagon. I'm curious to where this goes.
Also, this clearly indicated that he did read my question about his "interesting"* comment, but still didn't find it in him to respond. town!Hydrad cares more than that. He'd have given a wishy-washy answer, yeah, but still.
*For those not in the know, since there are quite a few in this game, there's a running joke on f.ds about "interesting" being Ichimaru Gin's (a mafia player, though it seems he's not playing anymore maybe ?) intellectual property, after I badgered him in a game for using it over and over. I didn't like it because the word, in the contest of mafia, means basically nothing, and is a way of commenting on something without actually saying anything of substance about it. So when Hydrad puts the "tm" after it, I'm guessing that's because I referenced Ichi in this post.Also, because I darn well want to:
unvote
Vote: faust
I find it interesting how you have egork and haddock as kinda scummy people in your read list and then you vote faust. would you change faust to scummy read if you made another list right now?
You own Ichimaru (can't say IG in this game) some money. What do you mean by "interesting" here ?
So scummy things about the igu reads list. there's a lot of stuff early...Wow, lots happened. Including some reads lists. Now the game feels like it is really moving.
applauding town for making progress is scummy. I'm sure there are some players who do it as town, but I'm reasonably certain that new players are more likely to do it when they're scum. Like, "the game moving, and I'm helping!". Town does not need to say this.
Time to post my own reads list I think."... because that will make me towny!"The claim means a lot. The posts pushing the game further help more. Some people are leaning slight town on Yuma; to me Yuma is the only obv!town player here. Like, I would be really surprised if he was fakeclaiming his role, and scum with a random vig doesn't make any sense at all.Excessive buddying of a "semi-ic" is undoubtedly a scumtell (for newer players). Have you ever seen a new scum do the opposite?
From here on, it's less clear, but the whole thing is still scummy for being very, very easy to fabricate. This is the kind of list that everyone can write, all day. It pretends to be content, but it's not.
Long, fluffy, and careful. Look at this:QuoteHaddock: Like a lot of people, I'm having trouble reading Haddock. I want to say that most of his posts seem helpful, and that puts him on the slightly townier side of null for me.
Awaclus & Hydrad: I haven't seen enough from either player to have an opinion one way or another. Would like to see more attention paid to both.
I would also prefer more null reads.
QuoteHe's close enough to null that I could still be convinced he's town, but still looking scummier than most other people.
irrks
That was the bulk of it, I think. It is overall just exactly what a new player's scum list will look like.
[rant]
Rant over.
Man, you just let Faust talk you down. Read your sig!
Eh...
I try not to kick people when they are down? Faust sounds frustrated with all the crap he's been getting lately, and to be fair I'm responsible for a fair portion of that.
It's not like I'm giving him town points for it. But I'd like to see a lot of people get a bit more involved in this game, not just Faust. There is plenty to go off of right now.
Like you, for instance! What exactly has WW contributed again?
Man, I'm suprised no one has gone after me for lurking.
Fair. I think the standard thing for scum is to try to float by, looking useful without causing too much of a stir. There are exceptions, (Faust in the RMM game that just finished), but especially for people as myself who have played maybe 15 forum games total, we tend to not get TOO crazy as scum, especially early when not pressure. Of course, having just said all that, it makes everything I do as potential scum WIFOM, but hey. That's the game.
I don't agree with lynching me because you don't know how I play as scum. You want to lynch someone that either has a good potential of being scum (which really based on my playstyle I wouldn't lynch myself yet if I were another person in this game), or someone who will give boatloads of info on a flip. Just lynching people cause you don't know how they play isn't very productive.
Now, if the game goes later and you still have no idea if I'm scum or not, then you seriously start asking yourself: could this guy be scum? But again you will probably end up realizing I'm not. Course, I can't make up your mind for you; I'm just being honest about what you will probably end up thinking.
Good stuff. As Peyton Manning once said: "I like it."
Eh?
SS is voting me, hoping to pressure me into saying something scummy. Don't worry about it, because he changes votes about as often as... something cliche. I'm looking to get this over with quickly, so we can get back to scum hunting. I'll be back when we're ready for that.
His scum tells are
- Look, I am calmly thinking about the possibility of scum!me, but it doesn't matter, since it's all hypothetical
- LOOK, I TOTALLY DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE!
These are the most important ones.
There's also
- Look, I consider your scum read on me to be valid
- Look, I am totally calm about the option of lynching me and am judging it objectively
- Obligatory 'you will realize I'm town' near the end
All of those (except maybe the last one if you take it out of context) are more likely to be from fairly new scum than fairly new town
I'M NOT CALM ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY!!!! IT IS FREAKING ME OUT!
I AM SO TOTALLY PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE, SO MUCH THAT IT MAKES ME TYPE IN CAPS AND MISS PUNCUTATION!!!111oneoneone
But wait! For only $29.99 more, you get:
Your scum read of me is totally not valid in any way!
I am peeing my pants cause I'm so scared about getting lynched!
You'll never get the fact that I'm town, so why try?
----------
In all seriousness, that last one is kinda true. I see what you're doing, but you're just wasting my time (I would say our time but technically you don't know my role, so you get a pass this time.). Go at least look at Teproc. Also, consider the fact that I'm not that new (around 15 forum games and several hundred irc) and have developed my own playstyle.
(There are 15 scum tells in the above sentences; if you don't get them all, you're scum!!!!1111 one)
My big problem with Ampharos claiming to be a veteran here is that he's not really doing anything to help town very much...
I mean, 'take a look at Teproc' does me little good when I already have taken a look at Teproc and what I see is pretty null. What am I supposed to be looking for? 'Teh Feelz'?
iguana trying to get people in gear. thats good. I like iguana here. you get 5 town points. Now how strong are these town points? I have no idea as I haven't created the scale yet but I assure you its good.
Eh?
SS is voting me, hoping to pressure me into saying something scummy. Don't worry about it, because he changes votes about as often as... something cliche. I'm looking to get this over with quickly, so we can get back to scum hunting. I'll be back when we're ready for that.
Loving this. As in, I like this playstyle, though I'm not entirely sure which way it's going. I really should read games for all the people I don't know. I think I'm back to null on Amphares, this reminded me of me in Chococlate Factory, a reference... one whole person will know in this game. Long story short, I was newbie scum.
reads lists
more reads lists
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
That's interesting; in your previous reads list, iguana and silver only showed up as light town. What changed? Or are you just in a gambling mood?
The more Day 1 consistent headbutting between two people, the more likely they are to be stubborn townies refusing to give up their point. That behavior draws too much attention. It's important to note that this is very different than one person relentlessly going after another, and that can easily be a sign of scum on either side of that (i.e. your moves on GKrieg last game).
Could someone summarize the silverspawn case for me?
His scum tells are
- Look, I am calmly thinking about the possibility of scum!me, but it doesn't matter, since it's all hypothetical
- LOOK, I TOTALLY DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE!
These are the most important ones.
There's also
- Look, I consider your scum read on me to be valid
- Look, I am totally calm about the option of lynching me and am judging it objectively
- Obligatory 'you will realize I'm town' near the end
All of those (except maybe the last one if you take it out of context) are more likely to be from fairly new scum than fairly new town
Town vibes from 2.7.
Town vibes from 2.7.
I also love how I get town reads for being v/la. Basically every* either forgot about me or gave me a town read. Maybe I should vacation more. I think that is basically what that means.
No, you get town vibes because of your recent post.Town vibes from 2.7.
I also love how I get town reads for being v/la. Basically every either forgot about me or gave me a town read. Maybe I should vacation more. I think that is basically what that means.
I would of responded
disagree. Town says it often enough. Sure they might not need to say it, but I know I have said it before as town, or at least something similar.
I feel like here you are working under the assumption that iguana is mafia and then interpreting things he says as if he were mafia. I guess that is one approach. I look at this and am trying to see it an unknown light. [...]
You would prefer more null reads, you say, after he basically gives three null reads? I don't get itI guess that was awkwardly placed. It was a comment about the entire reads list, just accidentally placed under his null reads
and I am not sure what you are saying here... I mean I don't get a super townie feel from this list. But that isn't the purpose of these sort of lists. The purpose of these lists is that sometimes they can be useful to go back on during rereads and also for sometimes figuring out if there is enough support for a certain wagon.
Granted, Ampharos has been very useful and helpful since then. He has toned down the crazy, and come through with some good theory talk (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg547150#msg547150) and stuff. Because he has already escaped all attention on D1.
He brought attention to himself by opening with a good salvo. He gets some people to vote him, but there is nothing there. He calms down and gives some good contributions. (Like I said, I am a sucker for reads posts (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg547032#msg547032)). Which establishes him as not scum and helpful town.
I call it manipulation.
Good manipulation.
QuoteEh...This sounds like town to me.
I try not to kick people when they are down? Faust sounds frustrated with all the crap he's been getting lately, and to be fair I'm responsible for a fair portion of that.
It's not like I'm giving him town points for it. But I'd like to see a lot of people get a bit more involved in this game, not just Faust. There is plenty to go off of right now.
Like you, for instance! What exactly has WW contributed again?
You know, something to get me on the board. Plus he totally escaped scrutiny for his scumminess because (in my opinion) silverspawn voted him for the wrong reasons.His scum tells are
- Look, I am calmly thinking about the possibility of scum!me, but it doesn't matter, since it's all hypothetical [...]
1) I do think about the possibility of scum!me because it is a hypothetical situation that people are faced with. I don't think that is necessarily scummy.
Note that I would not attribute any scum points to you for doing this, so the fact that you are doing it isn't really evidence. But newer players just are more likely to do it when they're scum. I believe this is common wisdom? 'The phrase "If I were scum" is a scumtell'?FTFY. Grammar, people.
FTFY. Grammar, people.
Actual contributions to come later.
... but I thought "If I was" and "If I were" are both equally valid?That's not my understanding, at least as far as British English goes, no idea about US variants.
As I say right now, "I don't like it." This gives me all sorts of bad feelings about Ampharos being But really? No one is attacking you, and the first thing you do is come out with a defense of yourself. No one is even voting for you! Yet you fiercely defend yourself like your life is on the line and we are about to do this terrible mislynch. THAT is scummy.
I guess that was awkwardly placed. It was a comment about the entire reads list, just accidentally placed under his null reads
but yes. three null reads aren't much. of course, null reads are worse than non-null reads, but I'm saying that a new town player would have a much harder time coming up with actual reads. Something like, 3 town reads, 1 scum read, rest null is what I would find towny.
you should also know by now, whenever there is a wagon day 1 on me that I am town and whomever I'm voting for is scum
Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
Actually let's skip the unexplained vote thing. It's fun but this game is already too scattered.Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
This is a scummy, scummy vote. It gets by because Hydrad is Hydrad and he does this all the time but come on. I think Hydrad just says what he thinks all the time, and how does town!Hydrad think "oooh, I'm on a growing wagon, better get off it quickly for no reason".
I'm getting GOP Mafia flashbacks from this, where I let Hydrad get away with it because I kind of gave up any hope of reading him. I think town!Hydrad does at least try to help town when he's doing relevant stuff, and here I'm just getting a "whoopdidoo, who am I gonna vote now ? Who's a popular wagon, let's try that, could be fun".
While RR is really scum here
I don't believe you.What about this?RR is as obv!town as ever. that's good.
This also.
I'll explain later.
that said, roadrunner is obv!town with this list.
I guess that was awkwardly placed. It was a comment about the entire reads list, just accidentally placed under his null reads
but yes. three null reads aren't much. of course, null reads are worse than non-null reads, but I'm saying that a new town player would have a much harder time coming up with actual reads. Something like, 3 town reads, 1 scum read, rest null is what I would find towny.
Except that my lowest 'town' read was e, who I listed as being next to null, and the same more or less for WW on the other side! Plus I list you and Faust both as 'torn,' which is another way of saying that I have seen a confusing mix of scummy and apparently pro-town posts from you both that add up to me not having a strong opinion either way. To me this is another form of 'null.' If you don't like it, I don't know what to say, except I'm sorry but I intend to use it every game where someone is pushing me in both directions, so you'd better get used to it or you will always think I am scum.
At this point, I am pretty sure you will interpret nearly everything I say as scummy because you are already convinced of me. In fact, when I clarified my reasoning for my read on Yuma, you found it unfortunate that I could show it was authentic. So do I even respond to you anymore? What's even the point in continuing to defend myself when you are past the point of being willing to give me a chance?
I don't believe you.What about this?RR is as obv!town as ever. that's good.
This also.
I'll explain later.
Okay, I had to go find it to make sure I was remembering correctly.
Game that just ended, town!SS Day 1 about town!RR:that said, roadrunner is obv!town with this list.
Doing the exact same thing you did in a previous town game, to the extent of using the same language, is scum. Because it opens up the "he does that as town" defense. And it's well within our memories as it just happened.
Actually let's skip the unexplained vote thing. It's fun but this game is already too scattered.Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
This is a scummy, scummy vote. It gets by because Hydrad is Hydrad and he does this all the time but come on. I think Hydrad just says what he thinks all the time, and how does town!Hydrad think "oooh, I'm on a growing wagon, better get off it quickly for no reason".
I'm getting GOP Mafia flashbacks from this, where I let Hydrad get away with it because I kind of gave up any hope of reading him. I think town!Hydrad does at least try to help town when he's doing relevant stuff, and here I'm just getting a "whoopdidoo, who am I gonna vote now ? Who's a popular wagon, let's try that, could be fun".
Hydrad's sig is relevant here.
You're telling me I gotta read too? Ain't nobody got time for that.
You're telling me I gotta read too? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Seriously though, do you disagree with my point ?
you know, instead of actually giving me credit for accurately determining RR's alignment (insert gut feeling)
vote: WW
vote: iguanda
you know, instead of actually giving me credit for accurately determining RR's alignment (insert gut feeling)
vote: WW
vote: iguanda
OMGUSBNETLMVOY
Well not the exact opposite, but WW's argument goes "silver is too eerily similar to a recent town game, seems fake", you're saying "look at how different silver is from his recent town game".
Thinking about it more, I actually see what you're getting at yuma I think. You're saying he's trying to replicate his precedent town game and betrays himself by actually being illogical ?
I disagree, because I think there's nothing more scummy than logic, unfortunately.
I am saying here he is finding iguana scummy for creating a reads list. There, when he was town, he gave RR obv!town points for it. That is an inconsistency.
he is finding iguana scummy for creating a reads list. There, when he was town, he gave RR obv!town points for it. That is an inconsistency.
I am saying here he is finding iguana scummy for creating a reads list. There, when he was town, he gave RR obv!town points for it. That is an inconsistency.
seriously?
you can't tell me that you are serious about this
Hey, yuma
you are giving me scum points for a post I made
earlier, you were giving me town points for a post I made
that's an inconsistency. vote: yuma
Hey, yuma
you are giving me scum points for a post I made
earlier, you were giving me town points for a post I made
that's an inconsistency. vote: yuma
and now you are OMGUSing
Great.
I don't even know how to accurately express my feelings.
I mean, yuma, if you vote for me, get me to be emotional, unvote me, and then revote me like this, you should expect a reaction.
stop acting the fool and I'll interact with you. but I will not be bullied or yelled at. I didn't sign up for that.
stop acting the fool and I'll interact with you. but I will not be bullied or yelled at. I didn't sign up for that.
the worst I did was call your argument stupid and increase the font in the corresponding quote.
I recall you calling Awaclus HHSNBN, calling his playstyle anti town, and quoting parts where other people spoke negatively about him. You did that this game too, I believe.
Not that I mind, and I'm not even sure it bothers Awaclus, but I think it's pretty unfair to accuse me of bullying in light of that.
you are right. I am a jerk.
unvote
i'll post once a day (per the rules). I will hammer if anyone gets to L-1 when I come online.
Have fun.
you are right. I am a jerk.
unvote
i'll post once a day (per the rules). I will hammer if anyone gets to L-1 when I come online.
Have fun.
you are right. I am a jerk.
unvote
i'll post once a day (per the rules). I will hammer if anyone gets to L-1 when I come online.
Have fun.
I understand you are frustrated by silverspawn. His latest post are inconsiderate. Please do not be inconsiderate by ruining the game for the rest of us.
What do you think about Silverspawn? I don't recall you responding to anything I said after you asked about him, but I could have missed it.
His latest post are inconsiderate.
What do you think about Silverspawn? I don't recall you responding to anything I said after you asked about him, but I could have missed it.
I am not convinced. Form my experience, scum!silver plays differently... less aggressive, less tunnel-ly. The thing he does now makes sense as a scum play, but I don't think silver would use emotional manipulation like that... that's more the field of people like ash or Robz.
And I still do not quite understand the case on silver. I would rather lynch a player who does not push the game forward and does not create a ton of interaction unless there's some actually compelling reason.
#681 I don't know. It wasn't productive, but I can't pretend to not feel like it was warranted.
What do you think about Silverspawn? I don't recall you responding to anything I said after you asked about him, but I could have missed it.
I am not convinced. Form my experience, scum!silver plays differently... less aggressive, less tunnel-ly. The thing he does now makes sense as a scum play, but I don't think silver would use emotional manipulation like that... that's more the field of people like ash or Robz.
And I still do not quite understand the case on silver. I would rather lynch a player who does not push the game forward and does not create a ton of interaction unless there's some actually compelling reason.
So who would that be?
#681 I don't know. It wasn't productive, but I can't pretend to not feel like it was warranted.
Well this is the one I have most of an issue with. People get to express their feelings no matter who they are. You cannot say "your feelings are not valid because of this and that you did". If someone - anyone - feels bullied, then the first thing is to accept that they feel that way.
I recall you calling Awaclus HHSNBN, calling his playstyle anti town, and quoting parts where other people spoke negatively about him. You did that this game too, I believe.
Not that I mind, and I'm not even sure it bothers Awaclus
What do you think about Silverspawn? I don't recall you responding to anything I said after you asked about him, but I could have missed it.
I am not convinced. Form my experience, scum!silver plays differently... less aggressive, less tunnel-ly. The thing he does now makes sense as a scum play, but I don't think silver would use emotional manipulation like that... that's more the field of people like ash or Robz.
And I still do not quite understand the case on silver. I would rather lynch a player who does not push the game forward and does not create a ton of interaction unless there's some actually compelling reason.
So who would that be?
I'm voting Ampharos and I think that's good obviously. Egor, Hydrad and you are also decent targets. Awaclus maybe.
Also, I spent like half an hour trying to make a picture of Isa the Iguana (from Dora the explorer) and Twilight Sparkle hi-fiving each other as a peace offering to ss, and came up with nothing but absolute failure. Chromebooks can suck.
I guess people will just have to imagine it? And hopefully not be really pissed off?
Also, I spent like half an hour trying to make a picture of Isa the Iguana (from Dora the explorer) and Twilight Sparkle hi-fiving each other as a peace offering to ss, and came up with nothing but absolute failure. Chromebooks can suck.
I guess people will just have to imagine it? And hopefully not be really pissed off?
Also, I spent like half an hour trying to make a picture of Isa the Iguana (from Dora the explorer) and Twilight Sparkle hi-fiving each other as a peace offering to ss, and came up with nothing but absolute failure. Chromebooks can suck.
I guess people will just have to imagine it? And hopefully not be really pissed off?
uh... I don't think there is anything between us that requires a peace offering?
The only problem I have with you is that I think you're scum in this game.
Although the fact that you assume I have a problem... *sigh* does indicate that you're town, because scum!you has less reason to assume this.
this is the second towny thing you did after the reads list. my strong scum read on you has degenerated to an average/weak read.
still more scum than town, though.
Why a maybe on Awaclus? I have never seen him lurk this much. Though I will confess to not having read more than two or three of his games. And obviously there could be reasons for lurking that are not related to the game.I find Awa towny in this game precisely because he's lurking. It seems to me that lurky Awa is town!Awa. It's when he starts talking a bunch, that's when you need to start thinking he might be scum.
I just don't see why he gets more of a pass from you than any of the others you mentioned.
Why a maybe on Awaclus? I have never seen him lurk this much. Though I will confess to not having read more than two or three of his games. And obviously there could be reasons for lurking that are not related to the game.I find Awa towny in this game precisely because he's lurking. It seems to me that lurky Awa is town!Awa. It's when he starts talking a bunch, that's when you need to start thinking he might be scum.
I just don't see why he gets more of a pass from you than any of the others you mentioned.
Why a maybe on Awaclus? I have never seen him lurk this much. Though I will confess to not having read more than two or three of his games. And obviously there could be reasons for lurking that are not related to the game.I find Awa towny in this game precisely because he's lurking. It seems to me that lurky Awa is town!Awa. It's when he starts talking a bunch, that's when you need to start thinking he might be scum.
I just don't see why he gets more of a pass from you than any of the others you mentioned.
You've learned this after.. one other game with him? Two?
What do you think about Silverspawn? I don't recall you responding to anything I said after you asked about him, but I could have missed it.
I am not convinced. Form my experience, scum!silver plays differently... less aggressive, less tunnel-ly. The thing he does now makes sense as a scum play, but I don't think silver would use emotional manipulation like that... that's more the field of people like ash or Robz.
And I still do not quite understand the case on silver. I would rather lynch a player who does not push the game forward and does not create a ton of interaction unless there's some actually compelling reason.
So who would that be?
I'm voting Ampharos and I think that's good obviously. Egor, Hydrad and you are also decent targets. Awaclus maybe.
Why a maybe on Awaclus? I have never seen him lurk this much. Though I will confess to not having read more than two or three of his games. And obviously there could be reasons for lurking that are not related to the game.
I just don't see why he gets more of a pass from you than any of the others you mentioned.
Why a maybe on Awaclus? I have never seen him lurk this much. Though I will confess to not having read more than two or three of his games. And obviously there could be reasons for lurking that are not related to the game.I find Awa towny in this game precisely because he's lurking. It seems to me that lurky Awa is town!Awa. It's when he starts talking a bunch, that's when you need to start thinking he might be scum.
I just don't see why he gets more of a pass from you than any of the others you mentioned.
Peace, people
I agree that case on silver is very weak
I am also feeling scummy vibes from Ampharos
Peace, people
I agree that case on silver is very weak
I am also feeling scummy vibes from Ampharos
Peace people. I am just chiming in to say that a agree with the general consensus and don't have anything new to add.
Vote: Egor
/lurk
PSATS./lurk
Why?
PSATS./lurk
Why?
I think he means Pre-SATs (scholastic aptitude tests?). The SAT is a common test that high schoolers take for a big part of their college resume. The PSAT is usually taken by high school freshman to give them an idea of how well they will do when they are older.As flattered as I am, they were really tough. I know I missed at least three problems.
Roadrunner's probably gunna get like a 2200.
If EgorK was scum, he wouldn't vote for me. He'd rather fly under the radar and not get noticed so much.
If EgorK was scum, he wouldn't vote for me. He'd rather fly under the radar and not get noticed so much.
That's exactly what he does.
If EgorK was scum, he wouldn't vote for me. He'd rather fly under the radar and not get noticed so much.
That's exactly what he does.
Would I want to do this I can just continue with my semilurky meta
That's not really good play for scum. Does he do this as scum?If EgorK was scum, he wouldn't vote for me. He'd rather fly under the radar and not get noticed so much.
That's exactly what he does.
That's not really good play for scum. Does he do this as scum?If EgorK was scum, he wouldn't vote for me. He'd rather fly under the radar and not get noticed so much.
That's exactly what he does.
Anyway, this interaction seems fruitless as I disagree on both facts and logic. When you'd have case other then "follows his previous meta (both scum and town)" (and I disagree that I do) I'd gladly discuss that
Anyway, this interaction seems fruitless as I disagree on both facts and logic. When you'd have case other then "follows his previous meta (both scum and town)" (and I disagree that I do) I'd gladly discuss that
My case is now that you misrepresent my case on you to make it look weaker than it is.
And in other news, having an anti-town meta is no excuse for being anti-town.
Peace, people
I agree that case on silver is very weak
I am also feeling scummy vibes from Ampharos
Peace people. I am just chiming in to say that a agree with the general consensus and don't have anything new to add.
Vote: Egor
24 post. but i'll post more later tonight.I'll be waiting.
Question for anyone who knows the answer
Are you allowed to reference a person's status outside of the game. By this I mean saying something like 'EgorK is currently online, why isn't he defending himself?' Or saying 'I saw Faust wrote an article on Scout, why is he lurking in this game?'
I don't know what you want, it's all there:Peace, people
I agree that case on silver is very weak
I am also feeling scummy vibes from Ampharos
Peace people. I am just chiming in to say that a agree with the general consensus and don't have anything new to add.
Vote: Egor
You were not only lurking, but when you come here, you take a very hedgy convenient position. If someone makes a good case on silver, you can join that wagon. If the Ampharos lynch goes through, you can join this wagon.
Not a fan of the egork lynch right nowThat's okay, we only need a simple majority (rounded up).
Peace, people
I agree that case on silver is very weak
I am also feeling scummy vibes from Ampharos
Not a fan of the egork lynch right nowThat's okay, we only need a simple majority (rounded up).
I agree.Not a fan of the egork lynch right nowThat's okay, we only need a simple majority (rounded up).
You need to vote for ampharos
Peace, people
I agree that case on silver is very weak
I am also feeling scummy vibes from Ampharos
Then vote for him. Or are you? I can't think right now. Been at work for 15 hours
You're telling me I gotta read too? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Seriously though, do you disagree with my point ?
Yeah, I think Hydrad is just being Hydrad, and he's not particularly helpful because he's been detached from all of Mafia as of late. I would think that scum!Hydrad would try a little harder to appear helpful, but, hey, it's Hydrad.
you are right. I am a jerk.
unvote
i'll post once a day (per the rules). I will hammer if anyone gets to L-1 when I come online.
Have fun.
so as for the case on ss I'm actually interested so many people keep saying its super weak. Like I guess its not amazing but for day 1 everyone seems to be instantly saying no to it. Which is interesting. Personally I was kinda being persuaded to vote ss before like 4 people said how its a bad case so I dunno just thought I should post that.
I'd appreciate if people drop "Nah, RR is obv town here" attitude and rather analyze my arguments at face valueBut I am obviously town.
Not a fan of the egork lynch right nowThat's okay, we only need a simple majority (rounded up).
You need to vote for ampharos
Right I can talk about this now.
The reason I voted SS was because he seemed to be behaving very differently to what he was in JK++, where I had a fairly strong townread on him.
I then unvoted because I realised that he might still have been the SK in JK++, I could have just been completely wrong. I wanted to check that he was town in JK++ before I voted him here for just being different to that. Obviously if he were scum in JK++ then voting him here for being different would be stupid.
But no, he was town in JK++ and I still think he's being different here (though maybe slightly less so recently).
So vote: ss.
Can you be more specific than just "he feels different"?
postNice scumslip.
post
Another thing to take into account is that we have a very dangerous threat from Yuma: auto lynch anyone at L-1 when he's on.
This is essentially the equivalent of a scum quick-hammer, except I believe Yuma to be town, which makes it even worse. If we can't come up with anyone solid to lynch, I would be okay removing him from the game in his current state, since it is of negative town usefullness. It's not a very good lynch since most of us seem to believe him town and we wouldn't get a ton of info from it, but I have seen scum do this turtling thing before, pretending to be hurt and really just hiding. It is a possibility to consider if we cannot agree on another solid target.
Another thing to take into account is that we have a very dangerous threat from Yuma: auto lynch anyone at L-1 when he's on.
This is essentially the equivalent of a scum quick-hammer, except I believe Yuma to be town, which makes it even worse. If we can't come up with anyone solid to lynch, I would be okay removing him from the game in his current state, since it is of negative town usefullness. It's not a very good lynch since most of us seem to believe him town and we wouldn't get a ton of info from it, but I have seen scum do this turtling thing before, pretending to be hurt and really just hiding. It is a possibility to consider if we cannot agree on another solid target.
Also if he hadn't lied about his role (probably) he can cause more harm at night as well
if he hadn't lied about his role (probably)
Another thing to take into account is that we have a very dangerous threat from Yuma: auto lynch anyone at L-1 when he's on.
This is essentially the equivalent of a scum quick-hammer, except I believe Yuma to be town, which makes it even worse. If we can't come up with anyone solid to lynch, I would be okay removing him from the game in his current state, since it is of negative town usefullness. It's not a very good lynch since most of us seem to believe him town and we wouldn't get a ton of info from it, but I have seen scum do this turtling thing before, pretending to be hurt and really just hiding. It is a possibility to consider if we cannot agree on another solid target.
Also if he hadn't lied about his role (probably) he can cause more harm at night as well
post
post
I am very sad about that as playing with you were generally fun. It is a pity that you decide to victimize yourself here and make game not fun for everyone else. If you do not want to play anymore there is option for sub
Egor and Ampharos trying to get the easy yuma lynch strengthens my scumreads here. I think we have good wagons, but they should be larger.No. If I was trying to lynch him I would have voted him. I brought up this whole discussion, true, but I'm doing it to make town aware of the danger and that we should discuss possible ways to deal with it.
Egor and Ampharos trying to get the easy yuma lynch strengthens my scumreads here. I think we have good wagons, but they should be larger.You know what IS scummy? The fact that no matter how much I ask people about you or other people mention you as possible scum, no discussion ever comes of it? It's impossible to get anything started on you and there's a possible explanation why: your more vocal scum partners are leaving you entirely alone.
Egor and Ampharos trying to get the easy yuma lynch strengthens my scumreads here. I think we have good wagons, but they should be larger.
Egor and Ampharos trying to get the easy yuma lynch strengthens my scumreads here. I think we have good wagons, but they should be larger.You know what IS scummy? The fact that no matter how much I ask people about you or other people mention you as possible scum, no discussion ever comes of it? It's impossible to get anything started on you and there's a possible explanation why: your more vocal scum partners are leaving you entirely alone.
So, between "everyone other than me is scum conspiring to not lynch faust" and "people don't agree with me", you're going for the former, huh ?
vote: EgorK
PPE : You're saying more than that though. Scum is, in your scenario, only 2 people other than faust, in the case of a single scum team. So you're focusing on the fact that those two people must be dominating the conversation so much taht they're suffocating any hope of takling about scum!faust, when in reality that still leaves everyone else who simply doesn't share your read.
I hope you realize how easily I could replicate this reasoning to anyone in this game who hasn't had a wagon yet. Obviously Hydrad must be scum, I made a great case (YMMV) on him and no one followed !
Do you sheep faust or have your own reasons? If later, what are they?
Do you sheep faust or have your own reasons? If later, what are they?
Help me out with what sheep means - I either forgot or was never told.
Do you sheep faust or have your own reasons? If later, what are they?
Help me out with what sheep means - I either forgot or was never told.
You know what IS scummy? The fact that no matter how much I ask people about you or other people mention you as possible scum, no discussion ever comes of it? It's impossible to get anything started on you and there's a possible explanation why: your more vocal scum partners are leaving you entirely alone.
Basically, I want you to know why I'm voting for you but am having a hard time finding the correct words.
Do you sheep faust or have your own reasons? If later, what are they?
Do you sheep faust or have your own reasons? If later, what are they?
Your tunneling looks to me like posturing. Tunneling on someone who has very little chance to get lynched is a pretty nice way to spend your day 1 as scum, as you don't have to engage in the dirty business of a mislynch, or meaningful interactions with anyone.
Also, I suspet scum is glad of how this day is going so far, with no wagons forming, so I'd expect them to be in the pile of individual votes.
PPE : I don't know that, but it's a safe assumption to make in a 13 player game. Could be 4 if we're talking multiball, but then your case is even weaker because faust ony has one parter. Will adress your main point in a second.
I'd say it is critical to realize who you've tried to wagon and that no one has bitten. It's either because there's a consensus that that person is town, or because for whatever reason, people do not want to lynch or vote or discuss them. Just as I'm doing with Faust, I'd encourage you to do with Hydrad if you think he might be scum. Push the issue, make noise, really work it and if you don't get any results, ask yourself why that is.
Thanks, guys.
PPE: All I see is that for whatever reason, you aren't drawing attention. Really at all. The most I've seen from other people besides Iguana is "idk about faust, he might be scummy". Combine that with how I'm reading you so far, and it really makes me wary.
I mean, my case on RR
Another thing to take into account is that we have a very dangerous threat from Yuma: auto lynch anyone at L-1 when he's on.
This is essentially the equivalent of a scum quick-hammer, except I believe Yuma to be town, which makes it even worse. If we can't come up with anyone solid to lynch, I would be okay removing him from the game in his current state, since it is of negative town usefullness. It's not a very good lynch since most of us seem to believe him town and we wouldn't get a ton of info from it, but I have seen scum do this turtling thing before, pretending to be hurt and really just hiding. It is a possibility to consider if we cannot agree on another solid target.
post
yuma, this is day 1. If you really don't want to play this game, ask to be replaced out. Not this though.
To be clear, the ideal solution would be to, you know, play. But this nonsense is not cool.
I'd say it is critical to realize who you've tried to wagon and that no one has bitten. It's either because there's a consensus that that person is town, or because for whatever reason, people do not want to lynch or vote or discuss them. Just as I'm doing with Faust, I'd encourage you to do with Hydrad if you think he might be scum. Push the issue, make noise, really work it and if you don't get any results, ask yourself why that is.
It's not either or. It means people don't particularly think faust is scum. You're free to argue that he is and try to convince us, that's be great actually, but all you're doing here is delving into conspiracy theories. If you're convinced faust is scum, fine, try and convince us. But seeing people ignoring your case is not evidence that it's a good case.
You mention the pssibility of "for whatever reason, people do not want to lynch or vote or discuss them". What exactly would that reason be ?
I mean, my case on RR
It's based on meta, correct ? I'm not familiar on RR's meta, so I don't disagree on those grounds, I just find him to fit the bill of (relative) newbie!town, as I explained earlier. Specifically he had a big post in the middle of the week-end when nothing was happening that I don't think (relative) newbie!scum would make.
I mean, my case on RR
It's based on meta, correct ? I'm not familiar on RR's meta, so I don't disagree on those grounds, I just find him to fit the bill of (relative) newbie!town, as I explained earlier. Specifically he had a big post in the middle of the week-end when nothing was happening that I don't think (relative) newbie!scum would make.
My case has more argument since then. See how his first reaction on my case was putting me as top town read (scum tell), then trying to find way to renege on that, and then finally finding it and voting on me. It screams newbie scum, no?
I'd say it is critical to realize who you've tried to wagon and that no one has bitten. It's either because there's a consensus that that person is town, or because for whatever reason, people do not want to lynch or vote or discuss them. Just as I'm doing with Faust, I'd encourage you to do with Hydrad if you think he might be scum. Push the issue, make noise, really work it and if you don't get any results, ask yourself why that is.
It's not either or. It means people don't particularly think faust is scum. You're free to argue that he is and try to convince us, that's be great actually, but all you're doing here is delving into conspiracy theories. If you're convinced faust is scum, fine, try and convince us. But seeing people ignoring your case is not evidence that it's a good case.
You mention the pssibility of "for whatever reason, people do not want to lynch or vote or discuss them". What exactly would that reason be ?
All I'm saying is that people not wanting to discuss anyone at all makes me see them as more scummy than they previously were. I keep bringing faust up, and no one engages in conversation about him with me other than faust repeatedly pointing out how my arguments are sooo bad or totally useless.
If I can't convince you to at least look at him (what my goal is), then I can't. However, until he dies or the game ends and I see what he actually is, I'm going to need some really good evidence to change my vote.
Also someone said (was it WW?) that 3rd game with someone is the moment you understand their meta most. Well, it's my 3rd game with RR
I'd say it is critical to realize who you've tried to wagon and that no one has bitten. It's either because there's a consensus that that person is town, or because for whatever reason, people do not want to lynch or vote or discuss them. Just as I'm doing with Faust, I'd encourage you to do with Hydrad if you think he might be scum. Push the issue, make noise, really work it and if you don't get any results, ask yourself why that is.
It's not either or. It means people don't particularly think faust is scum. You're free to argue that he is and try to convince us, that's be great actually, but all you're doing here is delving into conspiracy theories. If you're convinced faust is scum, fine, try and convince us. But seeing people ignoring your case is not evidence that it's a good case.
You mention the pssibility of "for whatever reason, people do not want to lynch or vote or discuss them". What exactly would that reason be ?
All I'm saying is that people not wanting to discuss anyone at all makes me see them as more scummy than they previously were. I keep bringing faust up, and no one engages in conversation about him with me other than faust repeatedly pointing out how my arguments are sooo bad or totally useless.
If I can't convince you to at least look at him (what my goal is), then I can't. However, until he dies or the game ends and I see what he actually is, I'm going to need some really good evidence to change my vote.
If someone keeps bringing up a case against your scum partner, wouldn't you feel obligated to say something about it?
Actually I want something from Yuma here.
Since you were one of the RR tunnelers in HPII where he was scum, what do you think of him here?
Ampharos, what is your case on faust ?
Actually I want something from Yuma here.
Since you were one of the RR tunnelers in HPII where he was scum, what do you think of him here?
Yuma already said that he thinks he is different here (or at least I infered that from his words, that game had not been finished at the time)
To me it is that more damning. In HP RR tried to emulate his town meta from 2 games he played before. That did not work out and he was lynched D2. It is logical to think "Ok, that does not work for scum!me. Let's change things a bit"
post
No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.
post
So you were serious? In that case,No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.
Applies to claimed survivors, SKs and town. Vote: yuma.
Forget meta for a time. What do you think about his reaction on my case?
Actually I want something from Yuma here.
Since you were one of the RR tunnelers in HPII where he was scum, what do you think of him here?
Yuma already said that he thinks he is different here (or at least I infered that from his words, that game had not been finished at the time)
To me it is that more damning. In HP RR tried to emulate his town meta from 2 games he played before. That did not work out and he was lynched D2. It is logical to think "Ok, that does not work for scum!me. Let's change things a bit"
Ampharos, what is your case on faust ?
I am of the opinion he has not been of much help to town this game, and is instead playing peanut gallery (distractor/look useful). He and I had a brief conversation about this (obviously he disagrees with me), but no one else is talking this over with me. The most I'm getting is "well, people must not agree with you". What I want to know is why people don't agree with me, other than the unspoken "fact" that they don't. The more I don't receive any conversation about this, the more I suspect him.
Actually I want something from Yuma here.
Since you were one of the RR tunnelers in HPII where he was scum, what do you think of him here?
Yuma already said that he thinks he is different here (or at least I infered that from his words, that game had not been finished at the time)
To me it is that more damning. In HP RR tried to emulate his town meta from 2 games he played before. That did not work out and he was lynched D2. It is logical to think "Ok, that does not work for scum!me. Let's change things a bit"
Blah!!! That case is so vague it makes my ears hurt!
Please! People! Use evidence!
My case has more argument since then. See how his first reaction on my case was putting me as top town read (scum tell), then trying to find way to renege on that, and then finally finding it and voting on me. It screams newbie scum, no?
Ampharos, what is your case on faust ?
I am of the opinion he has not been of much help to town this game, and is instead playing peanut gallery (distractor/look useful). He and I had a brief conversation about this (obviously he disagrees with me), but no one else is talking this over with me. The most I'm getting is "well, people must not agree with you". What I want to know is why people don't agree with me, other than the unspoken "fact" that they don't. The more I don't receive any conversation about this, the more I suspect him.
Ok. As I think I've established, I don't think not receiving conversation should make you more suspicious of him, but fine.
As for your main point. I see you describing faust's play this game pretty accurately, but I fail to see what's scummy about it. I guess I disagree that faust has not been much help to town this game. Short posts are just fine if they advance the game, and faust has been making relevant comments and votes. I'm not sure what more do you want.
If there's a meta part to your argument, ie "faust is usually a town leader but here's he's on the sidelines", well it's more that the "town leader" playstyle gets tiring to keep up after a while, and in fact scum!faust would feel more obligated to emulate his town meta.
No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.But that's not a good policy. A survivor who plays for the town wincon is way better for town than a survivor who plays for the survivor wincon.
So, being labeled as "Unusually active" and "Crazy lurking" within several posts is funny
Anyway, let's look at RR some more. I played 2 games with him, and I am not sure, but they are probably only his games on this site. Both times he was town, both times he played drastically different from this game. It may be that he just decided to mix it up, but it may be that because he is scum he feels more responsible and, hence, his essay and other stuff. Much less votes/unvotes (actually, only Awa), much less talking about how we should kill somebody/should not.
Vote: RR
Egor has got to be joking.
I look town to most people, that's good.
If Amaphoros (I dropped the nickname) is scum, I think his partner is Teproc.
What else? Oh yes, a list of who seems towny to me:
EgorK
Iguana(?)
Faust
Hydrad
2.7(?)
I guess that's it. Everyone else is pretty null.
I think he means Pre-SATs (scholastic aptitude tests?). The SAT is a common test that high schoolers take for a big part of their college resume. The PSAT is usually taken by high school freshman to give them an idea of how well they will do when they are older.As flattered as I am, they were really tough. I know I missed at least three problems.
Roadrunner's probably gunna get like a 2200.
But I'm home now, so back to Mafia!
If EgorK was scum, he wouldn't vote for me. He'd rather fly under the radar and not get noticed so much.
Vote: EgorK
It seems like he's using reverse reverse psychology. He doesn't seem sincere anymore.
Maybe I'll post a useless essay on him. After all, I need to get my post count up after all my lurking.
No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.But that's not a good policy. A survivor who plays for the town wincon is way better for town than a survivor who plays for the survivor wincon.
No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.But that's not a good policy. A survivor who plays for the town wincon is way better for town than a survivor who plays for the survivor wincon.
post
So you were serious? In that case,No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.
Applies to claimed survivors, SKs and town. Vote: yuma.
I will support a yuma lynch if he continues on this path, but in the meantime, who do you think is scum ?
No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.But that's not a good policy. A survivor who plays for the town wincon is way better for town than a survivor who plays for the survivor wincon.
You're just bitter you got Survivorlynched in that bastard game.
Sure I am. But I still don't think awaclus' policy makes sense. In what universe is it profitable to lynch a survivor who plays for the town wincon?
A survivor who doesn't play for the survivor win con is probably not a survivor.
No way we're not lynching someone who isn't playing towards the win con they claimed.But that's not a good policy. A survivor who plays for the town wincon is way better for town than a survivor who plays for the survivor wincon.
You're just bitter you got Survivorlynched in that bastard game.
Sure I am. But I still don't think awaclus' policy makes sense. In what universe is it profitable to lynch a survivor who plays for the town wincon?
Just read RR in Harry Potter... man I'm glad I wasn't in that game. That was a waste of time : RR was very different than he is here but the circumstances were completely different, he was under constant pressure and proceeded to do constant AtE and never talk about anything other than himself.
So he's different here because the circumstances are different, that doesn't really tell me much about his alignment.
vote: Awaclus
I think his position on yuma is taking advantage of the situation we have with yuma.
I am interested how the yuma situation develops, but I don't see what he is doing as a scum tell
vote: Awaclus
I think his position on yuma is taking advantage of the situation we have with yuma.
I am interested how the yuma situation develops, but I don't see what he is doing as a scum tell
My primary concern is not so much that yuma is scum (I don't think he is) but that he claimed appropriately and will use his random kill at night, likely hitting town.
If he didn't have that ability, I'd say let sleeping dogs lie.
vote: Awaclus
I think his position on yuma is taking advantage of the situation we have with yuma.
I am interested how the yuma situation develops, but I don't see what he is doing as a scum tell
My primary concern is not so much that yuma is scum (I don't think he is) but that he claimed appropriately and will use his random kill at night, likely hitting town.
If he didn't have that ability, I'd say let sleeping dogs lie.
So you are saying we should kill Yuma because he got a bad role, which he has told everyone that he is not going to use, before he ever gets a chance to not use it?
vote: Awaclus
I think his position on yuma is taking advantage of the situation we have with yuma.
I am interested how the yuma situation develops, but I don't see what he is doing as a scum tell
My primary concern is not so much that yuma is scum (I don't think he is) but that he claimed appropriately and will use his random kill at night, likely hitting town.
If he didn't have that ability, I'd say let sleeping dogs lie.
So you are saying we should kill Yuma because he got a bad role, which he has told everyone that he is not going to use, before he ever gets a chance to not use it?
I'm saying we need to decide if this is a big enough threat to town to deal with now, or if we want to let it sit and see what happens.
I say we don't declare "We'll lynch X if Y happens", when Y has a potential not to be related to X.
vote: Awaclus
I think his position on yuma is taking advantage of the situation we have with yuma.
Yeah, I say we just lynch yuma tomorrow if he uses his power without telling us.
I am fairly confident he won't though.
I don't think that Yuma (as town) is going to do something that he explicitly stated he wasn't going to do. His posts are all very intentional, even his semi-abdicating the game. He promises us to post in here once per 24 hours, and to hammer anyone at L-1. He didn't say anything about using his night power, so we defer to his last statement on that issue (that he isn't going to use his night power without telling us first).
OTOH if Yuma is scum and uses random vig, it should be pretty easy to figure it out tomorrow.
I would rather lynch someone who is likely to be scum than put us a day behind for no reason.
@AMpharos : ou're underestimating the cost of a wasted day 1 and overestimating the likeliness of town!yuma shooting.
that could mean
could
I just want Egor to stop.
He could contribute so much more if he did something pro-town.
Drop the RR case.
Hmmm, interesting.I just want Egor to stop.
He could contribute so much more if he did something pro-town.
Drop the RR case.
I'd like for RR to drop the "drop the RR case" case and do something pro-town :o
There is stiff competition on the scummiest scumster award.
I just want Egor to stop.
He could contribute so much more if he did something pro-town.
Drop the RR case.
There is stiff competition on the scummiest scumster award.
Weird, I feel the exact opposite.
fwiw I don't get the most town vibes from faust here.
Vote Count 1.8:
iguanaiguana (1): Hydrad
silverspawn (1): Haddock
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Ampharos (3): 2.7, WW, ss
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (3): iguana, faust, RR
RR (1): EgorK
Hydrad (1): Teproc
Not Voting (1): yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.
I love your individual opinions, but we have to do something. Put a bite* on your second best or something.
But I mean, ampharos. Really. His fascination with people voting for him is interestingTM.He's doing exactly what I do.
Like, he has never had a real serious wagon on him, yet he thinks he does. I mean, not knowing how many people are voting you....townie? Scummy? I mean, I would expect an experienced player to have better situational awareness. Maybe it is just different on other forums. That or people lynch super fast and you can't start defending too soon
This is bad. All those people who are the only person voting for someone, I would really love to hear why.Because I'm slow, that's it. I'm going to be changing my vote this post now that I'm mostly caught up.
Also someone said (was it WW?) that 3rd game with someone is the moment you understand their meta most. Well, it's my 3rd game with RRMine too. And I'm getting towniness off him. I think that this:
Yuma already said that he thinks he is different here (or at least I infered that from his words, that game had not been finished at the time)is the weakest thing ever. This argument only works at all if you assume a priori that RR is scum. Otherwise he could just be town, being towny old him again.
To me it is that more damning. In HP RR tried to emulate his town meta from 2 games he played before. That did not work out and he was lynched D2. It is logical to think "Ok, that does not work for scum!me. Let's change things a bit"
with barely any good reason at all.
But I mean, ampharos. Really. His fascination with people voting for him is interestingTM.
Like, he has never had a real serious wagon on him, yet he thinks he does. I mean, not knowing how many people are voting you....townie? Scummy? I mean, I would expect an experienced player to have better situational awareness. Maybe it is just different on other forums. That or people lynch super fast and you can't start defending too soon
Its just silver and faust. WW and 2.7 moved off, both to Awaclus.
Looking at the whole game, those and iguana have voted for you.
So, when you say scum is on your wagon, who do you find scummy among those 4 ? faust obviously, who else ?
I could see myself lynching haddock. I got lots and lots of town vibes in JK and get none here at all.
any thoughts?
I no longer am super duper happy with the Egor lynch. Who would I be okay to lynch, you might ask? Here it is, from scummiest to towniest.
Amaphoros
Iguanaiguana?
Egor
Yuma
Hydrad
Roadrunner
I could see myself lynching haddock. I got lots and lots of town vibes in JK and get none here at all.
any thoughts?
It seems like you consistently, throughout the entire game, can 'see yourself lynching' anyone who openly disagrees with you.
with barely any good reason at all.
if by 'barely any good reason' you mean the best case that has been made this game
with barely any good reason at all.
if by 'barely any good reason' you mean the best case that has been made this game
My comment above was based on you making this one. I admit I may be have completely misread your motives.
Vote Count 1.8:
iguanaiguana (1): Hydrad
silverspawn (1): Haddock
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Ampharos (3): 2.7, WW, ss
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (3): iguana, faust, RR
RR (1): EgorK
Hydrad (1): Teproc
Not Voting (1): yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.
This is bad. All those people who are the only person voting for someone, I would really love to hear why.
We need more wagons. I love your individual opinions, but we have to do something. Put a bite on your second best or something.
Does WW usually throw his vote around this much?Wait I'm confusing faust's avatar with WW's. Fail. Forget that.
Its just silver and faust. WW and 2.7 moved off, both to Awaclus.
Looking at the whole game, those and iguana have voted for you.
So, when you say scum is on your wagon, who do you find scummy among those 4 ? faust obviously, who else ?
There's the potential for WW to be scum this game.
Vote Count 1.8:
iguanaiguana (1): Hydrad
silverspawn (1): Haddock
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Ampharos (3): 2.7, WW, ss
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (3): iguana, faust, RR
RR (1): EgorK
Hydrad (1): Teproc
Not Voting (1): yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.
Vote Count 1.9:
silverspawn (1): Haddock
Ampharos (3): ss, faust, Hydrad
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (3): iguana, RR, Teproc
RR (1): EgorK
yuma (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): WW, 2.7
Not Voting (1): yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.
Vote Count 1.9:
silverspawn (1): Haddock
Ampharos (3): ss, faust, Hydrad
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (3): iguana, RR, Teproc
RR (1): EgorK
yuma (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): WW, 2.7
Not Voting (1): yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
I think yuma has been violating this rule. Will there be any consequences?
It's tempting...
Up until now, I thought this could be yuma trying to generate reactions by not posting... which, while not my playstyle, might be useful. But the fact that he continues this after lots of reacting has happened makes me think that this is not the case.
So he might be genuinely frustrated. I have reason to believe this might not be the case.
That would leave only scum, yes? I have restated my question to ash via PM as no questions in the thread will be answered. So let's see where that goes first. But I am prepared to vote for yuma if nothing happens.
I don't really buy that.
All of it?
I don't really buy that.
I don't see him doing that as Mafia (scum with teammates). Maybe as some third party (Survivor or SK), but I don't have any reason to think he's scum. I assume he'll come back eventually and don't see a benefit in the lynch.
I don't care what your case is now, but at the start you were pushing a super weak scumslip case, and then continued to push subtly for no good reason. Maybe the case is amazing now, though it doesn't seem that great to me. Your behaviour early was scummy. A couple of the things you said were in outright contradiction with the facts of the JK game, which we couldn't talk about at the time. That means either you were trying to get a lynch through before JK was over or you were blatantly lying, to what? To look scummy? Guys, new conspiracy theory: SS is a mime.with barely any good reason at all.
if by 'barely any good reason' you mean the best case that has been made this game
I could see myself lynching haddock. I got lots and lots of town vibes in JK and get none here at all.If I remember rightly you only found me towny after a made a semirant defending myself later on. At the start you had me down as something like null-to-mild-scum.
any thoughts?
I know know. I was skimming. Pale golden tones in a block? About right.Does WW usually throw his vote around this much?Wait I'm confusing faust's avatar with WW's. Fail. Forget that.
Because we look so similar.
He got annoyed.
I don't care what your case is now, but at the start you were pushing a super weak scumslip case, and then continued to push subtly for no good reason.with barely any good reason at all.
if by 'barely any good reason' you mean the best case that has been made this game
He got annoyed.
It was two days ago. That's not a valid excuse. Again, if he was that upset, he would have been replaced at this point.
He got annoyed.
It was two days ago. That's not a valid excuse. Again, if he was that upset, he would have been replaced at this point.
He basically \outed as scum before, so I'm not really sure the validity of this point. Why would town!Yuma asked to get replaced by scum!Yuma not? Or you mean, that he hasn't, indicates he's not being straightforward? Why is that more likely scum than town?
I don' t think scum!Yuma deliberately does that.
The yuma thing is bleh. I could lynch him I guess, but if it's genuine he could go from f.ds mafia forever. Which would be sad.
I don' t think scum!Yuma deliberately does that.
Why not ? Policy lynches basically never happen and he has his claim protecting him. I'd expect his likeliness of being lynched for this as pretty low (unfortunately).
I don' t think scum!Yuma deliberately does that.
Why not ? Policy lynches basically never happen and he has his claim protecting him. I'd expect his likeliness of being lynched for this as pretty low (unfortunately).
Are you confident enough of this as scum to do something begging a policy lynch?
The yuma thing is bleh. I could lynch him I guess, but if it's genuine he could go from f.ds mafia forever. Which would be sad.
Well meh. This is some kind of emotional blackmail that I will not accept.
After my question to ashersky, he offered me to file a "complaint" about yuma by the way, which I did. Others could do the same if they feel his play is inconsiderate. That might help us resolve the situation without having to lynch yuma.
Also I believe that yuma is eligible to prod
post post
Also I believe that yuma is eligible to prod
He posted a few hours ago.post post
Also I believe that yuma is eligible to prod
He posted a few hours ago.post post
Hm, missed that. Need to reread then as may had missed something else
Also I believe that yuma is eligible to prod
He posted a few hours ago.post post
Hm, missed that. Need to reread then as may had missed something else
Yeah, I can see why you missed it haha, not a whole lot there.
It did spark this whole round of debates and votes about yuma, though.
| Player 1. Witherweaver 2. yuma 3. silverspawn 4. Teproc 5. iguanaiguana 6. Hydrad 7. Roadrunner7671 8. 2.7... 9. faust 10. Ampharos 11. EgorK 12. Awaclus 13. Haddock | in-game 87 70 151 111 70 44 76 27 63 60 56 20 28 | Pregame (posted if people want to reference in the future for their post counts) 5 2 1 3 7 1 7 5 3 1 1 1 3 |
I know I haven't posted as much as usual, but now I'm definitely lynchable?
And you are man-crushing on Iguanaiguana, but you forget him?
Me? Taking something personal?I know I haven't posted as much as usual, but now I'm definitely lynchable?
Dont take it personal. I am not planning on running out to vote you anytime soon or anything
I didn't notice. But he has 111 posts!And you are man-crushing on Iguanaiguana, but you forget him?
I didn't. He is also "definitely lynchable" if you notice.
I didn't notice. But he has 111 posts!And you are man-crushing on Iguanaiguana, but you forget him?
I didn't. He is also "definitely lynchable" if you notice.
Also, RR is the only person voting for yuma who has more posts than him. If you guys want to complain about his "inactivity" by all means go ahead. I am not worried about it at all. When he decides to come back he will. And he will come back with plenty of things to say.
Or we will eventually lynch him. Or scum will eventually kill him. Or something else will happen. I don't know. What I do know is that he is very useful to have around towards the endgame. If scum doesn't kill him (assuming town at this point which I know is a very big assumption) then he can turn into an incredible asset later.
-- Voluntarily stepping away from the game for a few hours is the best way to prevent yourself from saying something you regret.
What's wrong with the 'that kind of jerk' guy?
What's wrong with the 'that kind of jerk' guy?
I agree fully with this Robz quote. The yuma/silver thing was 2 days ago. That's not "stepping back", he's commited to his thing at this point.Since I'm asking about all the terrible things that happened in Forum Mafia, what happened between Yuma and SS? I must have missed that...
PPE : Click on my signature, explore the awfulness of humanity therein, then you can smile at my signature in the future.
I agree fully with this Robz quote. The yuma/silver thing was 2 days ago. That's not "stepping back", he's commited to his thing at this point.Since I'm asking about all the terrible things that happened in Forum Mafia, what happened between Yuma and SS? I must have missed that...
PPE : Click on my signature, explore the awfulness of humanity therein, then you can smile at my signature in the future.
Re reading times,
If yuma flips scum, 2.7 is potential partner.
Also I find 2.7's definite push to get votes off yuma is confusing at most. It makes little sense.
you are right. I am a jerk.Found it, finally.
unvote
i'll post once a day (per the rules). I will hammer if anyone gets to L-1 when I come online.
Have fun.
He might start talking again if SS dies.
you are right. I am a jerk.Found it, finally.
unvote
i'll post once a day (per the rules). I will hammer if anyone gets to L-1 when I come online.
Have fun.
This sucks. Maybe if we say really outrageous things we can coax him out? Seeing as he didn't get replaced/try to get replaced, he might do something later.
I don't find this mean spirited, but I think it's unnecessary.
He might start talking again if SS dies.
Vote: Yuma
I don't know what a policy vote is, but I think this is one.
Who is more anti-town, Yuma or Awaclus?
The biggest scumtell is being anti town!Who is more anti-town, Yuma or Awaclus?
Don't lynch anti-town. Lynch scum
Who is more anti-town, Yuma or Awaclus?
Don't lynch anti-town. Lynch scum
Back.
Haven't read anything since last real post, don't intend to either as I am guessing I won't want to read much of it.... If you really, really want me to see something quote it with ATTENTION: yuma above it or something and I might respond to it.
oh good. Now we can move on and lynch either Awaclus or Ampharos.
Ampharos because he is scummy
Awaclus because he is a lurker who tried to take advantage of the whole yuma disappearing act to lynch yuma. Which I think is scummy.
oh good. Now we can move on and lynch either Awaclus or Ampharos.
Ampharos because he is scummy
Awaclus because he is a lurker who tried to take advantage of the whole yuma disappearing act to lynch yuma. Which I think is scummy.
The records. They are broken.
When I flip town, will you have the grace to apologize?
Back.
Haven't read anything since last real post, don't intend to either as I am guessing I won't want to read much of it.... If you really, really want me to see something quote it with ATTENTION: yuma above it or something and I might respond to it.
If I may ask, why come back at this point? It's a bit suspicious seeing as you're one of the top lynch candidates. Could be coincidence, but this is mafia we're talking about.
Why am I a top lynch candidate? For leaving?
oh good. Now we can move on and lynch either Awaclus or Ampharos.
Ampharos because he is scummy
Awaclus because he is a lurker who tried to take advantage of the whole yuma disappearing act to lynch yuma. Which I think is scummy.
The records. They are broken.
When I flip town, will you have the grace to apologize?
The records actually don't lie. I linked them just a bit ago. I am afraid I am involved in lynching town (as town) 3x more than I am lynching scum (as town). So yes, of course I will apologize. However, to repeat myself again on that broken record of yours, I don't think I will have to.
Back.
Haven't read anything since last real post, don't intend to either as I am guessing I won't want to read much of it.... If you really, really want me to see something quote it with ATTENTION: yuma above it or something and I might respond to it.
If I may ask, why come back at this point? It's a bit suspicious seeing as you're one of the top lynch candidates. Could be coincidence, but this is mafia we're talking about.
I got to a point where I felt confident that I could come back and not say something really stupid like I would have in the past that would have escalated the argument into a situation that would have been awful and probably would have resulted in me leaving again.
I used a coping mechanism and I coped. Why am I a top lynch candidate? For leaving?
what you just said
what you just said
Ok. I don't really want you to defend yourself. Like you said, you have done that. Give me something to work with. Give me something to partner with you on.
Lynching Awaclus? I am totally down. Let's do it together.
Lynching faust? Explain this a bit more for me
I mean, I really like your play, and would miss you on D2. Just give me someone better to lynch and I will join you.
Yes. There are a few theories flying around, none of which can be voiced out loud legally I believe (possibly they are all the same one), and they all wind up with you being scum. To give you full sense of the situation in case you are town and are telling the truth: many people do not see town!yuma doing what you did and will probably be very very suspicious that you came back when you did.
oh wow! that is kinda close to a lynch.
I'll be honest... I am surprised... by two in particular
oh wow! that is kinda close to a lynch.
I'll be honest... I am surprised... by two in particular
I did not expect you to be out this long, and decided that if you continued on that path (as opposed to /outing, which would have been the reasonable option long term if you were still upset), it had to be a ploy capitalizing on that fight, and therefore scum. I also hoped pressure might convince you to come back to the game. As it turns out I just got a bit too impatient.
As for not reading posts... you were not a huge suspect of conversation before you said "post post", so if you want to avoid that, I think everything between your two prodding posts was mostly focused on other things.
I thought that I would stay away until the end of Day1 and come back fresh Day2, but apparently this is the longest day ever--hasn't this game been going for like a week and a half already?--and I got bored and missed mafia and decided I felt comfortable coming back.
I thought that I would stay away until the end of Day1 and come back fresh Day2, but apparently this is the longest day ever--hasn't this game been going for like a week and a half already?--and I got bored and missed mafia and decided I felt comfortable coming back.
Deadline is december 8th and wagons have been... a challenge this game. Let's get one going on e ! He's been defending you very scummily.
I thought that I would stay away until the end of Day1 and come back fresh Day2, but apparently this is the longest day ever--hasn't this game been going for like a week and a half already?--and I got bored and missed mafia and decided I felt comfortable coming back.
Deadline is december 8th and wagons have been... a challenge this game. Let's get one going on e ! He's been defending you very scummily.
Defending the IC is not scummy
What's wrong with the 'that kind of jerk' guy?
He ruined one of Faust's games by sharing the identity of the mafia with everyone else playing.
Good. Am I correct in assuming you are back yuma ?
If so, let's move on
vote: 2.7
He's trying very, very hard to be reasonable. Everything he says is carefully measured... of course some play this way as town too, and 2.7 certainly isn't the most impulsive player out there, but he's not that measured, not that I can remembered.
I thought that I would stay away until the end of Day1 and come back fresh Day2, but apparently this is the longest day ever--hasn't this game been going for like a week and a half already?--and I got bored and missed mafia and decided I felt comfortable coming back.
Deadline is december 8th and wagons have been... a challenge this game. Let's get one going on e ! He's been defending you very scummily.
Defending the IC is not scummy
You jest, but it really is.
oh wow! that is kinda close to a lynch.
I'll be honest... I am surprised... by two in particular
Awaclus - I kind of like an Awaclus lynch. Especially after seeing the post count, plus that one yuma vote I find super scummy.
Hmmm. That makes sense. And to clarify I wasn't upset. I mean... I was initially, but haven't necessarily been this whole time sitting here steaming about it. No. That would be stupid. But I did want to make sure that I could come back, compartmentalize (something just in general in life I have been working on) and regardless of what others said not get sucked into an argument that would make me or others more upset.
I thought that I would stay away until the end of Day1 and come back fresh Day2, but apparently this is the longest day ever--hasn't this game been going for like a week and a half already?--and I got bored and missed mafia and decided I felt comfortable coming back.
I felt this option was preferable to outing and to creating a "circle jerk" in the thread as someone else once so eloquently put it....
I'm going to take a look at e; he slipped under my radar until recently. His recent stuff seems scummy to me but I don't want to judge too soon.Meh. Not much to get out of this. Most of his posts are well-crafted in that they're not really alignment tells either way. Maybe that's a scumtell? But bleh.
oh wow! that is kinda close to a lynch.
I'll be honest... I am surprised... by two in particular
So, I think (whether or not you intended it) you created quite a bit of content. Want to analyze your wagon?
Hmmm. That makes sense. And to clarify I wasn't upset. I mean... I was initially, but haven't necessarily been this whole time sitting here steaming about it. No. That would be stupid. But I did want to make sure that I could come back, compartmentalize (something just in general in life I have been working on) and regardless of what others said not get sucked into an argument that would make me or others more upset.
I thought that I would stay away until the end of Day1 and come back fresh Day2, but apparently this is the longest day ever--hasn't this game been going for like a week and a half already?--and I got bored and missed mafia and decided I felt comfortable coming back.
I felt this option was preferable to outing and to creating a "circle jerk" in the thread as someone else once so eloquently put it....
Well um. See, I have two problems with this. Firstly, if what you said was what you intended to do, that's fine. But your original post does not say it is. For all we knew, you were going to stay like this for the rest of the game. I know you were maybe too emotional to clarify then, but you could have easily done so in your 2 posts after that.
And secondly, I am not sure how much use you are to town if you come back here, but refuse to scumhunt (scumhunting kinda necessitates reading everything).
Why did you come back?
Haddock, you say "classic town!awa". What traits are town for him? What are scum?
And secondly, I am not sure how much use you are to town if you come back here, but refuse to scumhunt (scumhunting kinda necessitates reading everything).
Why did you come back?
No this is pretty much exactly what I meant.Haddock, you say "classic town!awa". What traits are town for him? What are scum?
I believe the general consensus is that scum!Awaclus tends to be more chatty, helpful, and willing to engage in discussions. Awaclus said so himself somewhere. One would think that it is easy for him to emulate his lurky, unhelpful town meta, but Awaclus most recent scum game (M71) showed that it's hard for him... I vigged him there partly due to his activity level.
Haddock can correct me if he meant something else.
oh wow! that is kinda close to a lynch.
I'll be honest... I am surprised... by two in particular
So, I think (whether or not you intended it) you created quite a bit of content. Want to analyze your wagon?
If someone wants to analyze it I can analyze their analysis.
Haddock, you say "classic town!awa". What traits are town for him? What are scum?
I believe the general consensus is that scum!Awaclus tends to be more chatty, helpful, and willing to engage in discussions. Awaclus said so himself somewhere. One would think that it is easy for him to emulate his lurky, unhelpful town meta, but Awaclus most recent scum game (M71) showed that it's hard for him... I vigged him there partly due to his activity level.
Haddock can correct me if he meant something else.
what you just said
Ok. I don't really want you to defend yourself. Like you said, you have done that. Give me something to work with. Give me something to partner with you on.
Lynching Awaclus? I am totally down. Let's do it together.
Lynching faust? Explain this a bit more for me
I mean, I really like your play, and would miss you on D2. Just give me someone better to lynch and I will join you.
Now. All that said, that’s just the read I had on him early on. Since then, Awaclus hasn’t done too much other than go after Yuma if I recall (again, is there a search function for the thread?)
The more the game goes on, the more I’m not so sure I want a faust vote at this point. I think my real drive in going at faust earlier was to get people to actually look at him, which really no one was. There was a while where I felt he wasn’t being that helpful to town and was throwing out peanut-gallery comments, but as of late he’s been more in-line with some of the things I’ve been thinking, and it makes me not so sure I’d want him lynched at this point in the game. I’m still very very wary of him and refuse to say I’m reading him town, but I’m toning down my “kill kill” mantra.
The more the game goes on, the more I’m not so sure I want a faust vote at this point. I think my real drive in going at faust earlier was to get people to actually look at him, which really no one was. There was a while where I felt he wasn’t being that helpful to town and was throwing out peanut-gallery comments, but as of late he’s been more in-line with some of the things I’ve been thinking, and it makes me not so sure I’d want him lynched at this point in the game. I’m still very very wary of him and refuse to say I’m reading him town, but I’m toning down my “kill kill” mantra.
Eh... while I appreciate you toning down, I'm not sure you should form reads based on how much people agree with you. Maybe this is not what you meant, but it reads to me like you changed your read on me mainly because of that.
Now. All that said, that’s just the read I had on him early on. Since then, Awaclus hasn’t done too much other than go after Yuma if I recall (again, is there a search function for the thread?)
I go to the "ALL" pages for the thread and then do a "ctrl f" search by user name: so if you wanted to search me, search "goko username: yuma" and that will pull up all of my posts
So I think what Awaclus is saying is, we can go ahead and lynch him.
yuma - Would vote for him (and am). The last game I was in, Yuma modded. That means he’s experienced. I find the timing of his return to be very suspicious, since his wagon was taking off. Will I feel bad if he’s telling the truth and we lynch him and he was just needing some time away? Yes, of course. However, I’ve seen smart scum manipulate emotions like that, and I have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not. We’ve had plenty of opinions on yuma as well, so it wouldn’t be a completely wasted lynch. I still think this is the strongest place for my vote right now; the potential for a gambit is high in my opinion.
Haddock - Would vote for him. Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments. Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.This is interesting. I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments". I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...
Haddock - Would vote for him. Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments. Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.This is interesting. I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments". I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...
Haddock - Would vote for him. Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments. Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.This is interesting. I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments". I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...
I read that as "nothing has did out to me." So without an opinion one way or the other, you are a possible lynch
yuma - Would vote for him (and am). The last game I was in, Yuma modded. That means he’s experienced. I find the timing of his return to be very suspicious, since his wagon was taking off. Will I feel bad if he’s telling the truth and we lynch him and he was just needing some time away? Yes, of course. However, I’ve seen smart scum manipulate emotions like that, and I have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not. We’ve had plenty of opinions on yuma as well, so it wouldn’t be a completely wasted lynch. I still think this is the strongest place for my vote right now; the potential for a gambit is high in my opinion.
So.... what exactly in this hypothetical situation was the purpose of this "gambit?" Didn't I already have plenty of towncred before this whole situation began? For what purpose would I need to try and get more? And if I did feel compelled to get more, why choose that method to get it?
And as a side note:
if you are implying that I faked emotions then, well I am just going to say that isn't very nice.
Emotions are still emotions regardless of my alignment. Town can have them. Mafia can have them. Just because someone is mafia doesn't mean they lose the ability to have emotions. I think others should assume emotions are real and valid until proven otherwise. I think if you look back into my previous games, and others can back this up that know me better, I have never once faked emotions as any alignment. That just isn't something that I do. Could I be doing it now? Sure, but I think courtesy dictates that you assume emotions are real, I try to do that, sometimes unsuccessfully, because I know how frustrating it can be to be feeling bad and then have someone come up to you and say... "he doesn't really feel bad, he is just faking it." and that just makes everything worse.
Haddock - Would vote for him. Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments. Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.This is interesting. I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments". I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...
And as a side note:
if you are implying that I faked emotions then, well I am just going to say that isn't very nice.
The gambit would be to intentionally get into an argument, get pretend upset, leave, gain invincibility through AtE, and come back later. I'm not sure how legit that possibility is since you already claimed, but it still is a possibility. It's also a very low-blow play, so I'd like to assume you wouldn't try it, but I've seen it before.
The gambit would be to intentionally get into an argument, get pretend upset, leave, gain invincibility through AtE, and come back later. I'm not sure how legit that possibility is since you already claimed, but it still is a possibility. It's also a very low-blow play, so I'd like to assume you wouldn't try it, but I've seen it before.
Ok vote: ampharos I would like to be lynched for reasons that are great than a possibility, whatever that means. I think pushing this through with this sort of pseudo logic is scummy
Haddock - Would vote for him. Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments. Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.This is interesting. I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments". I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...
Basically what e said. It's not like OMG HE'S SCUM but there is a good possibility - I like to look for scum where you currently sit: in the zone of nothing too dramatic, nothing too out of the ordinary, and reasonable accord with general consensus.
The gambit would be to intentionally get into an argument, get pretend upset, leave, gain invincibility through AtE, and come back later. I'm not sure how legit that possibility is since you already claimed, but it still is a possibility. It's also a very low-blow play, so I'd like to assume you wouldn't try it, but I've seen it before.
Ok vote: ampharos I would like to be lynched for reasons that are great than a possibility, whatever that means. I think pushing this through with this sort of pseudo logic is scummy
The gambit would be to intentionally get into an argument, get pretend upset, leave, gain invincibility through AtE, and come back later. I'm not sure how legit that possibility is since you already claimed, but it still is a possibility. It's also a very low-blow play, so I'd like to assume you wouldn't try it, but I've seen it before.
Ok vote: ampharos I would like to be lynched for reasons that are great than a possibility, whatever that means. I think pushing this through with this sort of pseudo logic is scummy
The OMGUS is real.
Haddock - Would vote for him. Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments. Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.This is interesting. I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments". I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...
Basically what e said. It's not like OMG HE'S SCUM but there is a good possibility - I like to look for scum where you currently sit: in the zone of nothing too dramatic, nothing too out of the ordinary, and reasonable accord with general consensus.
and yet you are voting for me...?
The gambit would be to intentionally get into an argument, get pretend upset, leave, gain invincibility through AtE, and come back later. I'm not sure how legit that possibility is since you already claimed, but it still is a possibility. It's also a very low-blow play, so I'd like to assume you wouldn't try it, but I've seen it before.
Ok vote: ampharos I would like to be lynched for reasons that are great than a possibility, whatever that means. I think pushing this through with this sort of pseudo logic is scummy
How is what Awaclus is doing any different?
Just because I like to look for scum in one place does not mean it could be in another.
How is what Awaclus is doing any different?
who?
sounds like you are saying... "anything that anyone does is something that I can manipulate and twist into being scummy."
sounds like you are saying... "anything that anyone does is something that I can manipulate and twist into being scummy."
I'd recommend trying to put yourself in my shoes, try to look at your situation from my PoV, and ask yourself if there's any possibility I could see you as scum. If you can't, then I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye, which is too bad. I like your playstyle.
It's important to note that while my vote is on you, I'm not actively trying to get you lynched. I'm merely answering your questions, which is a lot better than what Awaclus is doing, for example.
sounds like you are saying... "anything that anyone does is something that I can manipulate and twist into being scummy."
I'd recommend trying to put yourself in my shoes, try to look at your situation from my PoV, and ask yourself if there's any possibility I could see you as scum. If you can't, then I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye, which is too bad. I like your playstyle.
It's important to note that while my vote is on you, I'm not actively trying to get you lynched. I'm merely answering your questions, which is a lot better than what Awaclus is doing, for example.
That's, like, worse.
yuma isn't great.
YPG is sort of okay. Feeling worse about him lately.
iguanda is, despite recent towniness, still on top of my want-lynch list
let's try vote: .... oh wait no because YPG said he doesn't feel threatened because I switch my vote around too often. I don't like that. I like to be threatening.
But I'll ask again, would people support a Haddock lynch? Or a WW lynch?
sounds like you are saying... "anything that anyone does is something that I can manipulate and twist into being scummy."
I'd recommend trying to put yourself in my shoes, try to look at your situation from my PoV, and ask yourself if there's any possibility I could see you as scum. If you can't, then I guess we're just not going to see eye to eye, which is too bad. I like your playstyle.
It's important to note that while my vote is on you, I'm not actively trying to get you lynched. I'm merely answering your questions, which is a lot better than what Awaclus is doing, for example.
yuma isn't great.
YPG is sort of okay. Feeling worse about him lately.
iguanda is, despite recent towniness, still on top of my want-lynch list
let's try vote: .... oh wait no because YPG said he doesn't feel threatened because I switch my vote around too often. I don't like that. I like to be threatening.
But I'll ask again, would people support a Haddock lynch? Or a WW lynch?
YPG is not an acceptable nickname for someone whose username does not include the letters Y, P or G.
Ok, there's p in there but it's not even a P sound.
@Ampharos : Voting for someone is the exact definition of "actively trying to get someone lynched". Yes you can do more than that, but in essence, that is what a vote is.
YPG is not an acceptable nickname for someone whose username does not include the letters Y, P or G.
Ok, there's p in there but it's not even a P sound.
@Ampharos : Voting for someone is the exact definition of "actively trying to get someone lynched". Yes you can do more than that, but in essence, that is what a vote is.
For what it's worth, I don't care if people YPG me, that's cool if they want to. It is, technically, accurate.
I think you know what I mean though about actively lynching someone.
YPG is not an acceptable nickname for someone whose username does not include the letters Y, P or G.
Ok, there's p in there but it's not even a P sound.
@Ampharos : Voting for someone is the exact definition of "actively trying to get someone lynched". Yes you can do more than that, but in essence, that is what a vote is.
For what it's worth, I don't care if people YPG me, that's cool if they want to. It is, technically, accurate.
I think you know what I mean though about actively lynching someone.
I know what you mean, but I agree with yuma that your vote on him made no sense considering what you were saying about him (the maaaaaybe he was scum) and other people like Haddock (the he was exactly where you'd look for scum).
Re : YPG, it's more a question of clarity than anything else.
YPG is not an acceptable nickname for someone whose username does not include the letters Y, P or G.
Ok, there's p in there but it's not even a P sound.
YPG is not an acceptable nickname for someone whose username does not include the letters Y, P or G.
Ok, there's p in there but it's not even a P sound.
what? you're wrong. YPG is a great nickname.
Ampharos, on the other hand, confuses me. It always reminds me of Amorphis.
Teproc, what do you think of Faust?
Teproc, what do you think of Faust?
Nothing decisive, but leaning town. Certainly not in my lynchpool today.
Teproc, what do you think of Faust?
Nothing decisive, but leaning town. Certainly not in my lynchpool today.
while we're at it, how is WW towny?
Teproc, what do you think of Faust?
Nothing decisive, but leaning town. Certainly not in my lynchpool today.
while we're at it, how is WW towny?
Ampharos, on the other hand, confuses me. It always reminds me of Amorphis.
Right, given all the games of f.ds mafia they've played in, it must be pretty annoying.
It's a bad nickname in a mafia context because it's an acronym referring to an avatar. There's no way you'd be able to guess that without context, and what if he changes his avatar ? I guess it's fine in this game because it's been discussed, but if it becomes a thing it's going to have to be very confusing to anyone who hasn't played with Ampharos before.
All of which is pretty unimportant though. Anyone want to lynch e ?
PPE : E=2.7 is something you can understand though. I'm horrible at math and did not know what it was, but when I saw someoneuse it I looked at the player list, google 2.7etc. and got it. Can't do that with YPG.
momsalon was a similarly bad nickname, though at least it resembled the name. No one was using it by the time I got here though, s I never got to rant about it.
Alright, I kinda like Iguanda.
Alright, I kinda like Iguanda.
it's funny because I never realized there was no d in your name.
I for one didn't know that Amorphis was a pokemon, and I'm guessing Teproc didn't either.
Hm, if we fully believe yuma with his claim it is advantageous for town to use his role. Absent mafia NK it is neutral, but because of mafia NK there is chance that targets would be same, which sways shooting in town favor
hmmmm hm.... unvote and I am not into a 2.7 lynch.
For starters the guy has died Night1 both times he played recently. maybe that isn't a very good reason to not lynch someone (and he could still die Night1) but I feel bad and would need a compelling argument, which I haven't really seen. I guess defending me with completely legitimate reasons isn't enough for me to want to lynch someone.
is egorK still an option?
Ampharos, on the other hand, confuses me. It always reminds me of Amorphis.
Right, given all the games of f.ds mafia they've played in, it must be pretty annoying.
It's a bad nickname in a mafia context because it's an acronym referring to an avatar. There's no way you'd be able to guess that without context, and what if he changes his avatar ? I guess it's fine in this game because it's been discussed, but if it becomes a thing it's going to have to be very confusing to anyone who hasn't played with Ampharos before.
All of which is pretty unimportant though. Anyone want to lynch e ?
PPE : E=2.7 is something you can understand though. I'm horrible at math and did not know what it was, but when I saw someoneuse it I looked at the player list, google 2.7etc. and got it. Can't do that with YPG.
momsalon was a similarly bad nickname, though at least it resembled the name. No one was using it by the time I got here though, s I never got to rant about it.
I disagree with everything unimportant in this post. You can google Ampharos, and you will find a yellow pokemon, even if Ampharos changes his avatar. That said, I don't like the acronym YPG either. I also don't like the acronyms II, Igu, Igua or Iguanda, but that's all beside the point.
I agree with the actual content of this post. Ampharos is a bad lynch. He's towny, and the fact that he has never played with Yuma, hasn't read previous games, and is saying he doesn't know how to read Yuma is reason to give him slack for trying to push a Yuma lynch, not reason to go after him.
If it was Awaclus OTOH pushing a Yuma lynch, one would expect him to know better. Oh wait, Awaclus was pushing a Yuma lynch.
Everyone is saying they're fine with an Awaclus lynch. Well, I'll say that I like it a lot better than an Ampharos lynch.
Any takers?
Hm, if we fully believe yuma with his claim it is advantageous for town to use his role. Absent mafia NK it is neutral, but because of mafia NK there is chance that targets would be same, which sways shooting in town favor
Absent mafia NK it is neutral
Hm, if we fully believe yuma with his claim it is advantageous for town to use his role. Absent mafia NK it is neutral, but because of mafia NK there is chance that targets would be same, which sways shooting in town favor
I highly doubt the math checks out on that, but I'll let the competent people tackle that. faust ? 2.7 ?
yuma, since when do you ask for permission to vote someone ? Anyway, EgorK has two votes right now.
And also he probably can't kill himself (can you, yuma?) which makes it even better. But we make the game much more variative, so I'd say he should do it only if we lynch town
Hm, if we fully believe yuma with his claim it is advantageous for town to use his role. Absent mafia NK it is neutral, but because of mafia NK there is chance that targets would be same, which sways shooting in town favor
I highly doubt the math checks out on that, but I'll let the competent people tackle that. faust ? 2.7 ?
Just the moment I hoped my math masters and participation in school/university olympiads meant something :(
Absent mafia NK it is neutral
I really doubt that. Do you have any reason to think it?
There are two aspects that make it differ from neutral. It could only be neutral if they fully balance each other out
- the game is roughly balanced around random death / town death. Increasing the former is good. this makes it better
- the game is intentionally balanced to let scum win with random lynches, because town has reads. this makes it worse.
Hm, if we fully believe yuma with his claim it is advantageous for town to use his role. Absent mafia NK it is neutral, but because of mafia NK there is chance that targets would be same, which sways shooting in town favor
I highly doubt the math checks out on that, but I'll let the competent people tackle that. faust ? 2.7 ?
Just the moment I hoped my math masters and participation in school/university olympiads meant something :(
Didn't know about that. Still skeptical though.
Just the moment I hoped my math masters and participation in school/university olympiads meant something :(
Silver, if you is not persuaded by arguments provided by Haddock (for some reason, they are quite clear and convincing), can you just take it from someone who was candidate for Russian IMO team and won both Google CodeJam and TopCoder Open (and probability is quite popular theme in this competitions) that he is correct.
Ampharos, on the other hand, confuses me. It always reminds me of Amorphis.
Right, given all the games of f.ds mafia they've played in, it must be pretty annoying.
It's a bad nickname in a mafia context because it's an acronym referring to an avatar. There's no way you'd be able to guess that without context, and what if he changes his avatar ? I guess it's fine in this game because it's been discussed, but if it becomes a thing it's going to have to be very confusing to anyone who hasn't played with Ampharos before.
All of which is pretty unimportant though. Anyone want to lynch e ?
PPE : E=2.7 is something you can understand though. I'm horrible at math and did not know what it was, but when I saw someoneuse it I looked at the player list, google 2.7etc. and got it. Can't do that with YPG.
momsalon was a similarly bad nickname, though at least it resembled the name. No one was using it by the time I got here though, s I never got to rant about it.
I disagree with everything unimportant in this post. You can google Ampharos, and you will find a yellow pokemon, even if Ampharos changes his avatar. That said, I don't like the acronym YPG either. I also don't like the acronyms II, Igu, Igua or Iguanda, but that's all beside the point.
I agree with the actual content of this post. Ampharos is a bad lynch. He's towny, and the fact that he has never played with Yuma, hasn't read previous games, and is saying he doesn't know how to read Yuma is reason to give him slack for trying to push a Yuma lynch, not reason to go after him.
If it was Awaclus OTOH pushing a Yuma lynch, one would expect him to know better. Oh wait, Awaclus was pushing a Yuma lynch.
Everyone is saying they're fine with an Awaclus lynch. Well, I'll say that I like it a lot better than an Ampharos lynch.
Any takers?
Votes speak louder than words.
People who have spent a lifetime studying something reach vastly different conclusions all the time, every day. Just take a look at politics.
The only popular lynches in the past couple IRL days are the only two lynches I don't want to lynch (Ampharos, Yuma)
Absent mafia NK it is neutral
I really doubt that. Do you have any reason to think it?
There are two aspects that make it differ from neutral. It could only be neutral if they fully balance each other out
- the game is roughly balanced around random death / town death. Increasing the former is good. this makes it better
- the game is intentionally balanced to let scum win with random lynches, because town has reads. this makes it worse.
But we have to do significantly better than random here as one option is probably out (yuma probably can't kill himself) and one would not lead to bad outcome even when it should (i. e. yuma killing same person as mafia)
Anyway I agree we should only do this if we need to increase variance, i. e. if we lynch town. Probably not even N1
Awaclus, do you have anything to talk about beside yuma ?
I can't count. That's 3 scum, 8 townies, so 3 scum kills, 7 town kills, 1 no kill. Still looks bad.
also.... assuming I live... do people want me to shoot tonight?
I feel like I am starting to like the idea of shooting tonight a bit more. Unless we hit scum, then I think I like it less. But if everyone (or even a significant minority) is panic-mode and doesn't think I should then I won't.
I see.
That's a horrible argument. A mislynch is not a disaster because it generates info. This is just saying "welp, let's see what the RNG decides".
Just the moment I hoped my math masters and participation in school/university olympiads meant something :(
okay, this is only partially directed at you, but it is a very valuable life lesson, and I feel the need to say it.
experience in a certain area is a really shitty metric for who's likely right in an argument that takes place in this area. this is especially true if both persons discussing are reasonably intelligent and both know a little bit about the subject. In fact it's not only not a strong indication, it's almost entirely worthless.
the probability discussion is a great example. I am snapping here because this comment you made bothers meSilver, if you is not persuaded by arguments provided by Haddock (for some reason, they are quite clear and convincing), can you just take it from someone who was candidate for Russian IMO team and won both Google CodeJam and TopCoder Open (and probability is quite popular theme in this competitions) that he is correct.
People who have spent a lifetime studying something reach vastly different conclusions all the time, every day. Just take a look at politics.
Just the moment I hoped my math masters and participation in school/university olympiads meant something :(
okay, this is only partially directed at you, but it is a very valuable life lesson, and I feel the need to say it.
experience in a certain area is a really shitty metric for who's likely right in an argument that takes place in this area. this is especially true if both persons discussing are reasonably intelligent and both know a little bit about the subject. In fact it's not only not a strong indication, it's almost entirely worthless.
the probability discussion is a great example. I am snapping here because this comment you made bothers meSilver, if you is not persuaded by arguments provided by Haddock (for some reason, they are quite clear and convincing), can you just take it from someone who was candidate for Russian IMO team and won both Google CodeJam and TopCoder Open (and probability is quite popular theme in this competitions) that he is correct.
People who have spent a lifetime studying something reach vastly different conclusions all the time, every day. Just take a look at politics.
That's why I studied math and not politics. And I stopped to read that topic when it had gone from 2 pages to 5 in like an hour. I still firmly believe that given the assumptions Haddock made his answer is right. Assumptions may be wrong though
Anyway, what I said was a bit arrogant, sorry. I just wanted people to note that the fact that scum NK and yuma kill can target same person makes yuma kill a bit better. I maybe got too excited about that
So from a game-theory POV, I probably agree with what Egor said - shooting will probably be beneficial. I mean, I don't like the role, but it also has the plus side of semi-confirming yuma, yes? Because scum can't have two night kills. He could be third-party I guess, but he's be confirmed non-mafia.
Alright, unvote I think... this is not the worst plan ever.
Even from a game theory PoV I disagree. I don't believe games are actually balanced for full randomness : doesn't the normal setup favor scum normally ? Because in reality town is supposed to do better than random.
Are we really doing this ? This seriously makes me angry. Why are we even playing this game if you all would rather just press a button on random.org ?
Even from a game theory PoV I disagree. I don't believe games are actually balanced for full randomness : doesn't the normal setup favor scum normally ? Because in reality town is supposed to do better than random.
Are we really doing this ? This seriously makes me angry. Why are we even playing this game if you all would rather just press a button on random.org ?
Suppose his role has 50% chance to hit town and 50% chance to hit scum. Would you still not go for it?
scum!Teproc is pretty pro-town, I think.
So from a game-theory POV, I probably agree with what Egor said - shooting will probably be beneficial. I mean, I don't like the role, but it also has the plus side of semi-confirming yuma, yes? Because scum can't have two night kills. He could be third-party I guess, but he's be confirmed non-mafia.
Alright, unvote I think... this is not the worst plan ever.
There might be two scum factions (either mafia+SK or mafia+werewolves)
This. Not sure how I feel about this. It's pretty true, but I feel like I shouldn't like it.And secondly, I am not sure how much use you are to town if you come back here, but refuse to scumhunt (scumhunting kinda necessitates reading everything).
But if we are lynching based on not reading the thread, we need to lynch RR here (and probably every game) because he's constantly posting stuff like this:Why did you come back?
That's why I studied math and not politics. And I stopped to read that topic when it had gone from 2 pages to 5 in like an hour. I still firmly believe that given the assumptions Haddock made his answer is right. Assumptions may be wrong though
scum!Teproc is pretty pro-town, I think.
I'm like a reverse Awaclus.
@faust : We can't confirm yuma just by looking at how many die, because we don't know how many scum factions there are.
There are times when trying to talk about maths is productive in mafia. This is not one of them. I suggest that we don't discuss this further and yuma doesn't shoot, or if people think he shoots he can shoot, but don't argue with maths.
scum!Teproc is pretty pro-town, I think.
I'm like a reverse Awaclus.
@faust : We can't confirm yuma just by looking at how many die, because we don't know how many scum factions there are.
Well, it still gives us information that can be used to our advantage. I would argue that scum!yuma can only make this fakeclaim and shoot if he's not in the primary scum faction, so at least we can eliminate partner interactions down the road and yuma's chance of being scum drops.
PPE 2
There are times when trying to talk about maths is productive in mafia. This is not one of them. I suggest that we don't discuss this further and yuma doesn't shoot, or if people think he shoots he can shoot, but don't argue with maths.
The pony talks the sense.
I use the Checkov's gun argument: Because the role exists, we should use it.
There are times when trying to talk about maths is productive in mafia. This is not one of them. I suggest that we don't discuss this further and yuma doesn't shoot, or if people think he shoots he can shoot, but don't argue with maths.
The pony talks the sense.
I use the Checkov's gun argument: Because the role exists, we should use it.
That's why I studied math and not politics. And I stopped to read that topic when it had gone from 2 pages to 5 in like an hour. I still firmly believe that given the assumptions Haddock made his answer is right. Assumptions may be wrong though
Haddock himself realized he was wrong, but if you want to believe it despite not having read the thread, sure.
There are times when trying to talk about maths is productive in mafia. This is not one of them. I suggest that we don't discuss this further and yuma doesn't shoot, or if people think he shoots he can shoot, but don't argue with maths.
The pony talks the sense.
I use the Checkov's gun argument: Because the role exists, we should use it.
That is perhaps the only argument I could see in favor of using it : if ash put in the setup, it's not because he thought the best play was not to shoot 100% of the time. Still firmly against it though.
By the way, I think RR flavor claim had gone by mostly unnoticed. I'm not even sure if it was claim or joke
I don't know the argument, but doesn't it more say 'if it exists, there are times when using it is good' and not 'if it exists, using it right away is good?'
Using it right away is just super swingy. It gets a bit better if people claimed stuff, and maybe if townies die.
Also note that yuma could be mafia or SK. If we let him use it, he gets a perfectly acceptable excuse for shooting someone.
That's not really any different than the balancing argument.
There are times when trying to talk about maths is productive in mafia. This is not one of them. I suggest that we don't discuss this further and yuma doesn't shoot, or if people think he shoots he can shoot, but don't argue with maths.
The pony talks the sense.
I use the Checkov's gun argument: Because the role exists, we should use it.
Except we don't get any information from it because it's a closed setup. We can speculate, but that's all it's going to be. I'm not taking a, what, 70% chance of killing a random townie, just for information we might be able to use on day 5.
I think it was a joke.By the way, I think RR flavor claim had gone by mostly unnoticed. I'm not even sure if it was claim or joke
I think it was a claim.
Except we don't get any information from it because it's a closed setup. We can speculate, but that's all it's going to be. I'm not taking a, what, 70% chance of killing a random townie, just for information we might be able to use on day 5.
All you do ever in a mafia game is speculate.
70% might be wrong, but it's in that ballpark, correct ?
Also if yuma is scum, I highly doubt he will not shoot just because we tell him to. At least he would be forced to shoot someone "random", because it will still be scummy if he shoots top town reads.
Also if yuma is scum, I highly doubt he will not shoot just because we tell him to. At least he would be forced to shoot someone "random", because it will still be scummy if he shoots top town reads.
if he is SK, sure. But if he is mafia, he can just shoot random townie #1337 which is not a high town read, and that won't be suspicious.
Let's think about flavor. In the Marvel series, how many teams of bad guys are there?Also if yuma is scum, I highly doubt he will not shoot just because we tell him to. At least he would be forced to shoot someone "random", because it will still be scummy if he shoots top town reads.
if he is SK, sure. But if he is mafia, he can just shoot random townie #1337 which is not a high town read, and that won't be suspicious.
But then there would only be one night kill, unless you assume 2 scum teams.
Question: If yuma's plan was all along to use his role as a cover-up for night kills, why did he announce he wouldn't shoot when he first claimed?
Let's think about flavor. In the Marvel series, how many teams of bad guys are there?Also if yuma is scum, I highly doubt he will not shoot just because we tell him to. At least he would be forced to shoot someone "random", because it will still be scummy if he shoots top town reads.
if he is SK, sure. But if he is mafia, he can just shoot random townie #1337 which is not a high town read, and that won't be suspicious.
But then there would only be one night kill, unless you assume 2 scum teams.
Let's think about flavor. In the Marvel series, how many teams of bad guys are there?Also if yuma is scum, I highly doubt he will not shoot just because we tell him to. At least he would be forced to shoot someone "random", because it will still be scummy if he shoots top town reads.
if he is SK, sure. But if he is mafia, he can just shoot random townie #1337 which is not a high town read, and that won't be suspicious.
But then there would only be one night kill, unless you assume 2 scum teams.
I think there are a couple of situations where it's good. Like, if you have 3 town and 1 scum left alive, then the extra shot is 'free'
oh, and as for when using it is better than night 1:I think there are a couple of situations where it's good. Like, if you have 3 town and 1 scum left alive, then the extra shot is 'free'
oh, and as for when using it is better than night 1:I think there are a couple of situations where it's good. Like, if you have 3 town and 1 scum left alive, then the extra shot is 'free'
Except that there will never be a situation in this game when we can be sure that there are 3 town and 1 scum left alive...
I think it was a joke.By the way, I think RR flavor claim had gone by mostly unnoticed. I'm not even sure if it was claim or joke
I think it was a claim.
Question: If yuma's plan was all along to use his role as a cover-up for night kills, why did he announce he wouldn't shoot when he first claimed?
oh so he did say that? great. vote: yuma
I didn't want you to be alone, but I didn't want to claim.I think it was a joke.By the way, I think RR flavor claim had gone by mostly unnoticed. I'm not even sure if it was claim or joke
I think it was a claim.
Um....
I didn't want you to be alone, but I didn't want to claim.I think it was a joke.By the way, I think RR flavor claim had gone by mostly unnoticed. I'm not even sure if it was claim or joke
I think it was a claim.
Um....
Question: If yuma's plan was all along to use his role as a cover-up for night kills, why did he announce he wouldn't shoot when he first claimed?
oh so he did say that? great. vote: yuma
Why is that worthy of a vote?
Question: If yuma's plan was all along to use his role as a cover-up for night kills, why did he announce he wouldn't shoot when he first claimed?
oh so he did say that? great. vote: yuma
Why is that worthy of a vote?
you claimed the power judging that it was bad for town.
now you see that the consensus is shifting and try to use it because it's good for you.
Because of this up until we are at 50/50 with non-town aligned roles this is going to be a negative utility as more often than not this is going to hit town and even at the end game is just as likely to hit town as mafia. (5 alive, 2 scum, 2 town that aren't me, 1 town that is me).
I don't know if claiming is the right course here, but this isn't really a role that I feel super strongly about keeping super secret from mafia.
Honestly my main purpose is to get people to think that I am townie because this just isn't a role that makes any sense to fake claim regardless of alignment (and certainly doesn't make any sense as a scum role) and maybe... just maybe there is a way to get this power to be more effective via co-ordination somehow. I don't know... maybe there is some sort of role that can non-randomize me?? (if you exist obviously don't claim) That sounds really RMM, but who knows what ash comes up with in these crazy setups of his...
Is it relevent?
I'm pretty sure that more than half of the people who said something about using it said don't use it.
I agree that the case is much less good than I thought initially though. Still, I feel like you are trying to shoot. I don't like it.
I would advocate lynching you day 2 if you shoot without a majority
I would advocate lynching you day 2 if you shoot without a majority
you are advocating lynching me day1... so this isn't exactly a surprising threat
Okay. Then I am Iron Man. You guys can speculate-I could be bulletproof/immune to one night kill, I could be rich (if that's a thing) I could possibly be loveable.Is it relevent?
Yes. I think so.
Sigh.I messed up?
Ok, finished reread. Nothing that was not discussed stand out. Defends yuma, votes for Amph almost through entire game. Okish D1 lynch, but I hope we can do better
Ok, finished reread. Nothing that was not discussed stand out. Defends yuma, votes for Amph almost through entire game. Okish D1 lynch, but I hope we can do better
Remind me who you're talking about again?
Okay. Then I am Iron Man. You guys can speculate-I could be bulletproof/immune to one night kill, I could be rich (if that's a thing) I could possibly be loveable.Is it relevent?
Yes. I think so.
I'll mine as well put that out there, I don't think it's relevant.
Oh snap!Okay. Then I am Iron Man. You guys can speculate-I could be bulletproof/immune to one night kill, I could be rich (if that's a thing) I could possibly be loveable.Is it relevent?
Yes. I think so.
I'll mine as well put that out there, I don't think it's relevant.
He's Iron man, the hiding semi-beloved princess!
Having PRs and not using them is lame!
Having PRs and not using them is lame!
good argument.
oh wait it's a shitty argument.
I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
Good. Am I correct in assuming you are back yuma ?
If so, let's move on
vote: 2.7
He's trying very, very hard to be reasonable. Everything he says is carefully measured... of course some play this way as town too, and 2.7 certainly isn't the most impulsive player out there, but he's not that measured, not that I can remembered.
Vote: Ampharos for syntax.
Vote: Ampharos for syntax.
i'm not feeling that lynch as much anymore
and I guess I am not shooting anymore.
Vote: Ampharos for syntax.
i'm not feeling that lynch as much anymore
Any alternative proposals?
Back to vote:Ampharos I think.
actually let's do
vote: egork
there haven't been any tells coming from the other direction and I didn't like how egork tried to previously use GOP mafia against my case on him.
But why is nobody interested in Haddock and WW?I am
But I'll ask again, would people support a Haddock lynch? Or a WW lynch?
But why is nobody interested in Haddock and WW?I amBut I'll ask again, would people support a Haddock lynch? Or a WW lynch?
good question though!
Huh, okay. I'm not opposed to that lynch. Can you tell me why I should vote for them?
and I guess I am not shooting anymore.
and I guess I am not shooting anymore.
I am still going to write about why you should shoot. In the meantime, I am grateful I didn't just shoot myself. 3 hour meetings are the worst
I am your scum partner and if you shoot we kill one more towny without causing suspicion.
I can't believe that D1 of this game is now approaching 1200 posts. Has there ever been a game like this before? This is so so crazy.
I'm seriously getting exhausted with it. I'm starting to feel like scum just wins here because everyone looks the same.
I mean even if we do get a scum flip, then we have to go back and look at 1200 posts of stuff to figure out their partners. So crazy.
I feel demoralized.
and I guess I am not shooting anymore.
I am still going to write about why you should shoot. In the meantime, I am grateful I didn't just shoot myself. 3 hour meetings are the worst
wait... just a moment. I think I got it for you.Quote from: insert e hereI am your scum partner and if you shoot we kill one more towny without causing suspicion.
is that correct?
I don't get it... why are Haddock and WW suddenly towny?
back to vote: ssmeh
I can't believe that D1 of this game is now approaching 1200 posts. Has there ever been a game like this before? This is so so crazy.
I'm seriously getting exhausted with it. I'm starting to feel like scum just wins here because everyone looks the same.
I mean even if we do get a scum flip, then we have to go back and look at 1200 posts of stuff to figure out their partners. So crazy.
I feel demoralized.
oh. I guess I should also say 4-6 is around null basically.Guess who's better than null!!??
oh. I guess I should also say 4-6 is around null basically.Guess who's better than null!!??
oh. I guess I should also say 4-6 is around null basically.Guess who's better than null!!??
Me!
123445542
oh. I guess I should also say 4-6 is around null basically.Guess who's better than null!!??
Me!
er... you are actually quite a bit worse than 0Quote123445542
this is a high number. high = scum.
okay
in case you were hoping for it though, this reads list does not give you obv!town status.
So edit to my reads list. 0 is scum I guess and 10 is IC.
I can just imaging ashersky in his mod qt hoping that Yuma will shoot.
I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
I thought about that too, and I don't think it's the case. The ability is presumably not targeted, so it shouldn't be able to be redirected.
I don't get it... why are Haddock and WW suddenly towny?
I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
I thought about that too, and I don't think it's the case. The ability is presumably not targeted, so it shouldn't be able to be redirected.
Why would it not be targeted?
I can just imaging ashersky in his mod qt hoping that Yuma will shoot.
really? really?
because I can very vividly imagine ash in this game, giving a speech about how we are all crazy to consider letting an UNCONFIRMED source RANDOMLY shoot someone. We are basically allowing someone to kill whoever he wants, and even if he is town, it is still a random kill that has a 75% chance of hitting town.
I can almost smell his frustration!
asking the mod questions about your rile* is a thing.
Role*
And something I stumbled upon:Good. Am I correct in assuming you are back yuma ?
If so, let's move on
vote: 2.7
He's trying very, very hard to be reasonable. Everything he says is carefully measured... of course some play this way as town too, and 2.7 certainly isn't the most impulsive player out there, but he's not that measured, not that I can remembered.
You previously said your yuma vote wasn't policy. Why are you backing off as soon as he reappears?
Basically what e said. It's not like OMG HE'S SCUM but there is a good possibility - I like to look for scum where you currently sit: in the zone of nothing too dramatic, nothing too out of the ordinary, and reasonable accord with general consensus.
Haddock has struck me as pretty hedgey. There was one post maybe yesterday that I was going to vote him for,I guess I have been pretty middle of the line, because as has been noted by other people, everyone is seeming pretty similar this game. But I did take at least one strong stance, which is that on SS. I'm not saying it's the best case ever, there's a lot of gut in there, but I really do find SS scummy. I'm only not voting him because noone else was, so there was no point. Now that yuma is there, I could vote: ss. Let's see how this goes.
experience in a certain area is a really shitty metric for who's likely right in an argument that takes place in this area. this is especially true if both persons discussing are reasonably intelligent and both know a little bit about the subject. In fact it's not only not a strong indication, it's almost entirely worthless.I do feel a bit bad; at one point in that discussion I definitely tried to pull rank-by-experience. But it's crap, really. I do have a lot of maths experience, but not in the probability area at all - I probably have no more explicit probability experience than anyone who's taken any sort of sciencey bachelor's degree. I think I was just trying to take a shortcut to the end of the discussion.
the probability discussion is a great example. I am snapping here because this comment you made bothers me
Oh hey...
I just reread my PM and apparently the flavor will be specific enough to show that it was me that killed someone... I want to double check with ash before I state what that flavor will be (I don't want to be modkilled for sharing something from the PM), but I think it can be inferred from my flavor...
That mitigates the question of whether or not others will be able to tell whether it was actually me that killed or another second party or something...
Oh hey...
I just reread my PM and apparently the flavor will be specific enough to show that it was me that killed someone... I want to double check with ash before I state what that flavor will be (I don't want to be modkilled for sharing something from the PM), but I think it can be inferred from my flavor...
That mitigates the question of whether or not others will be able to tell whether it was actually me that killed or another second party or something...
Well, if this is true, then shooting just got a whole lot better, yes?
Now we're looking at a high likelihood of killing town to confirm that a player who is probably town is not lying about his role,
a player who is probably town
It does. Now we're looking at a high likelihood of killing town to confirm that a player who is probably town is not lying about his role, which won't make him an IC because of the SK possibility. Clearly the best use of a PR ever, come collect your mafia awards right now.
Vote: Awaclus
Vote: Awaclus
Ooh I like this part!
Vote: Awaclus
you missed iguana's vote
Let's do this thing.
Vote: Awaclus
Vote: Amaphoros
This Awaclus thing is looking like Harry Potter day one, except in Harry Potter we didn't waste 2,000 posts.
It's too early to be voting correctly.Vote: Amaphoros
This Awaclus thing is looking like Harry Potter day one, except in Harry Potter we didn't waste 2,000 posts.
italics? Really? Just vote for him if you want to.
I don't know what people complain about. This has by all sensible measures been a great day 1 with tons of stuff going on. Too much content? really? you're just lazy
Awaclus wagon is a double edged sword. pros: he has done nothing towny, isn't particularly pro town, and has been flying under the radar. Cons: he hasn't done anything scummy, either.
YPG is better I think
I don't know what people complain about. This has by all sensible measures been a great day 1 with tons of stuff going on. Too much content? really? you're just lazy
Awaclus wagon is a double edged sword. pros: he has done nothing towny, isn't particularly pro town, and has been flying under the radar. Cons: he hasn't done anything scummy, either.
YPG is better I think
So I thought, but recently I think he's scummy. It feels like he is tunnelling yuma so he does not have to provide opinions on the rest of the game.
I like a vote: Ampharos
You know, something to get me on the board.
[a lot more stuff about silverspawn's case on Ampharos and how it was all wrong]
reads (no particular order)
Town
silverspawn
RR
iguana
yuma
hydrad
meh
witherweaver
Teproc
EgorK
Awaclus
Haddock
scummier
Ampharos
faust
I felt kind of bad leaving Ampharos on his own with the scummier side of things so I threw faust in there too. Not really sure what to think about Haddock at this point, Awaclus could be scum, Teproc is cool, witherweaver is interesting.
vote: Awaclus
I think his position on yuma is taking advantage of the situation we have with yuma.
I am interested how the yuma situation develops, but I don't see what he is doing as a scum tell
Back to vote: ampharos
Scums sure like the yuma lynch. Although the faust vote seems like town who isn't appreciative of yuma's current approach to the game.
Let's do this thing.
Vote: Awaclus
And ash stated that in terms of mechanics my kill acts like any other except that I don't get to do the choosing, so it could be manipulated if mafia had such a role. Makes me want to use it less
* No reason, I just watched Strangelove recently. It's pretty great.
I think of teproc as one of the better scum hunters. hopefully I'm right.
I think of teproc as one of the better scum hunters. hopefully I'm right.
I'm pretty sure I'm a worse scumhunter than you.
* No reason, I just watched Strangelove recently. It's pretty great.
It is really good. Unlike this case on 2.7. I give it a D-. And B- is pretty good for a day1 lynch I think.
And ash stated that in terms of mechanics my kill acts like any other except that I don't get to do the choosing, so it could be manipulated if mafia had such a role. Makes me want to use it less
and I can't specifically state what my kill flavor will be. But it should be really, really obvious. Think of The Hulk and it should come pretty easily.
* No reason, I just watched Strangelove recently. It's pretty great.
It is really good. Unlike this case on 2.7. I give it a D-. And B- is pretty good for a day1 lynch I think.
Rethinking it, B- was generous. The problem, as always, with lynching Awaclus, is that if you mislynch him you don't learn much.
I'll admit that the problem is more that I am not particularly convinced Awaclus is scum. If your argument is "Awaclus is being unhelpful", I'm sorry to break it to you, but that doesn't mean much with regards to his alignment.
The Case On 2.7, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Lynch*
Another thing to note is that WW has pretty much the same voting pattern - oscillating between Ampharos and Awaclus. Do you think that's scummy too?
And ash stated that in terms of mechanics my kill acts like any other except that I don't get to do the choosing, so it could be manipulated if mafia had such a role. Makes me want to use it less
and I can't specifically state what my kill flavor will be. But it should be really, really obvious. Think of The Hulk and it should come pretty easily.
Like, not in one piece?
The Case On 2.7, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Lynch*
There is certainly a scum narrative in here. Problem is, I think Ampharos and Awaclus are scummy. But e behaving like this only really makes sense if they are town, yes?
Another thing to note is that WW has pretty much the same voting pattern - oscillating between Ampharos and Awaclus. Do you think that's scummy too?
I just realized why I don't use "ss" for silverspawn.
ash, you missed Haddock's latest vote on ss. It's hidden in a wall of text, but it's there (#1235)No, you didn't your latest vote count correctly has me on SS.
I am currently going through a new experienceThis is a really towny post.
I can feel my hopefully objective judgement flying out the window and find myself incapable of evaluating whether or not teproc's case is actually good or I just want it to be good, because my goal for today has somehow become GET SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED (who isn't one of my town reads). It has been a subtle process but now it's there.
eh. vote: e
I am currently going through a new experienceThis is a really towny post.
I can feel my hopefully objective judgement flying out the window and find myself incapable of evaluating whether or not teproc's case is actually good or I just want it to be good, because my goal for today has somehow become GET SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED (who isn't one of my town reads). It has been a subtle process but now it's there.
eh. vote: e
Enough for me to unvote.
Teproc makes a decent case. I also think e's reaction is scummy.
vote: e
I am currently going through a new experienceThis is a really towny post.
I can feel my hopefully objective judgement flying out the window and find myself incapable of evaluating whether or not teproc's case is actually good or I just want it to be good, because my goal for today has somehow become GET SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED (who isn't one of my town reads). It has been a subtle process but now it's there.
eh. vote: e
Enough for me to unvote.
Teproc makes a decent case. I also think e's reaction is scummy.
vote: e
even teproc thinks his case isn't decent...
even teproc thinks his case isn't decent...
I didn't quite say that. Decent is about where I'd put it.
Oh my god, I can't believe it's still!D1.
I want to lynch people in this order:
Amaphoros
2.7
Awaclus
Yuma
Hydrad
SS
Teproc
I'm okay with the Awaclus vote, but I don't think it would get us a whole lot. There's the potential he's scum, but really almost everyone is potential scum right now. I keep getting the feeling of "ug, we're never going to find anyone", but then realize it's still only day 1.
As for the e vote, not sure. He's read town to me for the most part, and I feel like voting him would be totes OMGUS, but I need to get over that. :P
We've got a little more time and I haven't been around much today. Will give everything another look tomorrow and come back better informed.
Another thing to note is that WW has pretty much the same voting pattern - oscillating between Ampharos and Awaclus. Do you think that's scummy too?
WW also made the case on me
I'm okay with the Awaclus vote, but I don't think it would get us a whole lot. There's the potential he's scum, but really almost everyone is potential scum right now. I keep getting the feeling of "ug, we're never going to find anyone", but then realize it's still only day 1.
As for the e vote, not sure. He's read town to me for the most part, and I feel like voting him would be totes OMGUS, but I need to get over that. :P
We've got a little more time and I haven't been around much today. Will give everything another look tomorrow and come back better informed.
Oh my god, I can't believe it's still!D1.
Think they can both be scum?
well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
Oh my god, I can't believe it's still!D1.
that is not how you use the ! thing. at all.
I'm okay with the Awaclus vote, but I don't think it would get us a whole lot. There's the potential he's scum, but really almost everyone is potential scum right now. I keep getting the feeling of "ug, we're never going to find anyone", but then realize it's still only day 1.
As for the e vote, not sure. He's read town to me for the most part, and I feel like voting him would be totes OMGUS, but I need to get over that. :P
We've got a little more time and I haven't been around much today. Will give everything another look tomorrow and come back better informed.
Man, I would so vote you right now, but I want to stay on Awaclus.
Think they can both be scum?
well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
uh :(
No, it's just such a scummy thing to say. "I'm fine with the lynch, since it gives us information".
But I think it's the kind of thing that you say as either alignment, so just for you I doubt it's a scumtell.
No, it's just such a scummy thing to say. "I'm fine with the lynch, since it gives us information".
But I think it's the kind of thing that you say as either alignment, so just for you I doubt it's a scumtell.
I'll admit that the problem is more that I am not particularly convinced Awaclus is scum. If your argument is "Awaclus is being unhelpful", I'm sorry to break it to you, but that doesn't mean much with regards to his alignment.
That isn't the argument at all. Well, not mine at least. What made me vote Awaclus was how he came onto the Yuma wagon. It felt like he was trying to take advantage of the situation and get an easy lynch in. Now, he just won't switch off and won't consider anything else. At this point, he is making a gambit with his "uselessness." Getting people like you to argue that he is not a good lynch because we wont learn much.
He won't change his mantra. His mantra is not scummy by itself, but refusing to look anywhere else is I think
Do you also find my yuma vote in Switch and my silver vote in Random super scummy?
This is correct. So Iguanaiguana is decisive, good to know. Or he can just recognize a joke. That would also be good to know.Oh my god, I can't believe it's still!D1.
that is not how you use the ! thing. at all.
I believe he knew that and was being creative in his use of it. I found it refreshing.
I'll admit that the problem is more that I am not particularly convinced Awaclus is scum. If your argument is "Awaclus is being unhelpful", I'm sorry to break it to you, but that doesn't mean much with regards to his alignment.
That isn't the argument at all. Well, not mine at least. What made me vote Awaclus was how he came onto the Yuma wagon. It felt like he was trying to take advantage of the situation and get an easy lynch in. Now, he just won't switch off and won't consider anything else. At this point, he is making a gambit with his "uselessness." Getting people like you to argue that he is not a good lynch because we wont learn much.
He won't change his mantra. His mantra is not scummy by itself, but refusing to look anywhere else is I thinkDo you also find my yuma vote in Switch and my silver vote in Random super scummy?
1. I didn't follow Switch mafia.
2. You are seriously referencing a Bastard game for a reference point?
Do you also find my yuma vote in Switch and my silver vote in Random super scummy?
The fact that you are using these games as an excuse is in itself scummy.
But I think it's the kind of thing that you say as either alignment, so just for you I doubt it's a scumtell.Really? I think his post does look like scum here, even if it is Hydrad.
And you are conveniently ignoring everything else in this game.The fact that you are using these games as an excuse is in itself scummy.
I'm not using them as an excuse. I'm using them to show that this is what I do (as town) every time someone claims a win con and plays against it. What is truly baffling to me is why I'm the only one.
And you are conveniently ignoring everything else in this game.
Do you also find my yuma vote in Switch and my silver vote in Random super scummy?
Your question is irrelevant, because Yuma did not claim to be a serial killer as a gambit to get you killed. Yuma simply got angry and stopped making helpful posts in the game for a couple of days. While the behavior is unusual, there are a variety of reasons someone might decide to do it as scum or as town, including the simplest explanation that Yuma didn't want to say something he would later regret. Therefore, there is nothing in the behavior that explicitly shows that Yuma is playing against a town wincon.
vote: YPG
vote: Awaclus
vote: e
vote: YPG
vote: Awaclus
vote: e
we should lynch one of those guys. too much stalling is going on right now.
Fascinating.
The Case On 2.7, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Lynch*
[entrance stuff]
Something to get him on the board. Precisely. This whole reread stuff is what alerted me. Because there's nothing there, or to be more precise, there's just enough to pass as townie. From someone who had been away for the first two or three days you'd expect a fresh perspective on things, but e just comes in and comments on stuff everyone's been talking about, says stuff pretty close to what everyone's been saying etc. The two people he comments on the most here are silver and Ampharos, ie the two main "wagons" at that time.
reads (no particular order)
Town
silverspawn
RR
iguana
yuma
hydrad
meh
witherweaver
Teproc
EgorK
Awaclus
Haddock
scummier
Ampharos
faust
And he tops it off with a reads post that basically looks like the average of everyone's read at the time. We say all the time scum wants to blend in : these posts blend in so much they're basically transparent.
Vote Count 1.7:
iguanaiguana (2): ss, Hydrad
silverspawn (2): WW, RR
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Ampharos (2): faust, 2.7
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (2): Haddock, iguana
RR (1): EgorK
Hydrad (2): Teproc, yuma
There's very little after that, before :vote: Awaclus
Exactly where I'd expect scum to be w/ regards to yuma during his absence, especially if yuma is town. He knows yuma is not very likely to be lynched here, but he will probably flip relatively early, so he can capitalize by arguing scum is jumping on the "easy" yuma mislynch. Attacking Awaclus is also never an unpopular position, so there.
Back to vote: ampharos
After Awaclus doesn't pan out as a wagon, but Ampharos still has one.Scums sure like the yuma lynch. Although the faust vote seems like town who isn't appreciative of yuma's current approach to the game.
"People voting yuma are scum, except for this guy who's not a realistic day 1 lynch"
Aka "Look at all this work I'm doing ! Aren't I so townie ?"
Let's do this thing.
Vote: Awaclus
And finally, there's his voting pattern.
#625 : Votes Ampharos (2)
#819: Votes Awaclus (2)
#920: Votes Ampharos (4)
#1244 : Votes Awaclus (4)
Tunneling is a nice position for scum on day 1, because you're less conspicuous. Granted he's expanded his tunneling to "all players starting with an A", but still, voting for only two people is not the sign of a super productive townie. It also helps that Ampharos has consistently been among the top "wagons" all game and Awaclus is always going to be seen as a potential lynch by most people.
TL;DR : 2.7 has been blending, trying very hard to appear as a productive townie while in reality only commenting on stuff everyone else had already commented on and focusing on popular lynch targets. The only time he didn't go with the flow was on yuma, because that wagon had very little chance of actually resulting in a lynch, and he just had to reap the town points and strike the easy targets.
TL;DR (meta edition) : 2.7 is doing a version of what I do when I'm scum.
* No reason, I just watched Strangelove recently. It's pretty great.
There's very little after that, before :vote: Awaclus
Exactly where I'd expect scum to be w/ regards to yuma during his absence, especially if yuma is town. He knows yuma is not very likely to be lynched here, but he will probably flip relatively early, so he can capitalize by arguing scum is jumping on the "easy" yuma mislynch. Attacking Awaclus is also never an unpopular position, so there.
Half the people voting for Awa are townreads for me, and also players with good scumhunting reputations.
Which makes me think maybe I'm going crazy. So, reread of Awa coming up.
I'll admit to that, though I still think it was very much going in the direction discussion was generally going at the time, and maintain that the only time in this game e has gone against the grain was w/ regards to yuma.
Maybe I'll reconsider if Awa moves his vote.
2 situations:
1) Awa is scum, pushing yuma for the mislynch. Whatever, let him vote as he pleases.
2) This is a message for Awa if you are town. Move your vote. Get over yourself and accept that yuma is not going to get lynched today. Pick your 2nd choice candidate. Suck it up.
How many votes are on Awaclus?
Your vote is not on both... just to be clear, since they are the two main wagons, you are making a very clear choice. You'd be happy to lynch both, fine, but still.Yeah OK, phrase it that way instead. At the moment I'm choosing Awa because
I very much doubt that any-alignment!Awaclus would let himself be blackmailed.It wasn't intended as blackmail, though I guess I can see how it would be seen that way.
This may look scummy, but Vote: AwaclusHow many votes are on Awaclus?
5 (aka L-2)
(Bizarre couple of moves. Going from SS to igu makes no sense at all to me, since igu and ss were at each other's throats early on. And then WW; no explanation offered of course. I guess his confusion is slightly towny here? Bleh.)
Your vote is not on both... just to be clear, since they are the two main wagons, you are making a very clear choice. You'd be happy to lynch both, fine, but still.Yeah OK, phrase it that way instead. At the moment I'm choosing Awa because
a) I'm making the point that I've changed my mind about him.
b) He looks like the one more likely to turn into a successful lynch.
c) e looks ever-ever-ever so slightly less scummy in his recent posts, maybe.I very much doubt that any-alignment!Awaclus would let himself be blackmailed.It wasn't intended as blackmail, though I guess I can see how it would be seen that way.
He really does need to move his vote. A vote on yuma is doing nothing here.
Actually, yuma, same probably goes for you.
i didn't get a PPE...
At this stage, I think yuma has to shoot tonight to clear himself. That was a pretty scummy move.
Well, unless Awaclus flips scum.
i didn't get a PPE...
That's not actually possible. If you didn't get a PPE, it means that you came from a page which had Roadrunner's vote on it (and my post about it begin L-2 before that).
i didn't get a PPE...
That's not actually possible. If you didn't get a PPE, it means that you came from a page which had Roadrunner's vote on it (and my post about it begin L-2 before that).
Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguyJeez yeah. Um... not sure what to say here. One of those last two votes must surely come from scum.
At this stage, I think yuma has to shoot tonight to clear himself. That was a pretty scummy move.
Well, unless Awaclus flips scum.
For the record, I am still very much opposed. At any rate I think yuma should not say right now what he intends. It would serve no purpose other than help scum exploit it since it's actually tracable on flip.
i didn't get a PPE...
That's not actually possible. If you didn't get a PPE, it means that you came from a page which had Roadrunner's vote on it (and my post about it begin L-2 before that).
That is possible. I was responding to haddock's post via my e-mail and I hadn't seen the other posts come in and I didnt check for others because they hadn't come in through my e-mail.
Well, to be fair I don't think it's that bad. If Awaclus flips some PR that would have been easily verifiable it really sucks, otherwise it realistically doesn't change that much I think.
Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguy
At this stage, I think yuma has to shoot tonight to clear himself. That was a pretty scummy move.
Well, unless Awaclus flips scum.
For the record, I am still very much opposed. At any rate I think yuma should not say right now what he intends. It would serve no purpose other than help scum exploit it since it's actually tracable on flip.
It serves the purpose of clearing him as scum unless scum intervenes. And if scum intervenes, they don't do something more hurtful, which is good.
Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguy
better derphammerguy than deliberatehammerguy
Well, to be fair I don't think it's that bad. If Awaclus flips some PR that would have been easily verifiable it really sucks, otherwise it realistically doesn't change that much I think.
How does Awaclus's role play into this? Do you think scum!yuma knew Awaclus's role?
Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguy
better derphammerguy than deliberatehammerguy
That's actually wrong.
Yuma announce whether or not you will shoot tonight
Yuma announce whether or not you will shoot tonight
i will decide how to use my role thank you very much
Yuma announce whether or not you will shoot tonight
i will decide how to use my role thank you very much
Yuma announce whether or not you will shoot tonight
i will decide how to use my role thank you very much
You actually said yourself you would announce it if you were to use it.
Yes... we can plan for a deliberate hammer (just claim at L-2), but not for a derphammer.Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguy
better derphammerguy than deliberatehammerguy
That's actually wrong.
really... someone who deliberately hammers someone without giving them a chance to claim versus a person who accidently hammers someone?
So Yuma's not going to tell us. Great.Yuma announce whether or not you will shoot tonight
i will decide how to use my role thank you very much
Yes... we can plan for a deliberate hammer (just claim at L-2), but not for a derphammer.Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguy
better derphammerguy than deliberatehammerguy
That's actually wrong.
really... someone who deliberately hammers someone without giving them a chance to claim versus a person who accidently hammers someone?
I think derphammer doesn't mean what I think it means.Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguy
better derphammerguy than deliberatehammerguy
Wow. yuma has certainly become derphammerguyJeez yeah. Um... not sure what to say here. One of those last two votes must surely come from scum.
I was going to unvote to give Awa a chance to speak, when RR put him at L-1. But it all happened too quickly.
Well, to be fair I don't think it's that bad. If Awaclus flips some PR that would have been easily verifiable it really sucks, otherwise it realistically doesn't change that much I think.
How does Awaclus's role play into this? Do you think scum!yuma knew Awaclus's role?
I'm not saying "bad for yuma's alignment", I'm saying "bad for town". If Awaclus flips VT or Doctor (or some equally unverifiable role without other PRs claiming), I think Awaclus would hav ebeen ynched anyway.
I did. And i have stated what I would do previously. But I am not doing that cause someone decided to tell me to do so in bold.
oh wait awaclus is hammered?
I did. And i have stated what I would do previously. But I am not doing that cause someone decided to tell me to do so in bold.
Lol
so do you know that Awaclus will flip town?How did you get that from what I said?
PPE : So, you're going to tell us or not ?
I did. And i have stated what I would do previously. But I am not doing that cause someone decided to tell me to do so in bold.
so do you know that Awaclus will flip town?How did you get that from what I said?
I did. And i have stated what I would do previously. But I am not doing that cause someone decided to tell me to do so in bold.
Let the record show that this is the dumbest reason not to do something I have ever heard/read in my life.
PPE : Well could you please restate them, since they're so obviously there for us to see ?
in fact I take back anything I previously said.
I might shoot, I might not. Depends on how much I stay annoyed with you guys in the next 12 hours...
Oh, I see.so do you know that Awaclus will flip town?How did you get that from what I said?
because you said there is guaranteed scum among the people who hammered.
Okay, so. Let's not forget that this is an RMM. Awaclus could be loved, or someone could be voteless, or it could require more people for a lynch.
oh. well, still a closed game. But I guess that makes it less likely.Okay, so. Let's not forget that this is an RMM. Awaclus could be loved, or someone could be voteless, or it could require more people for a lynch.
This is not RMM. CLosed setup, but normal game.
So Awaclus can still talk? Is that right? That's good to have.
Nk could be worse too, no offence to Ss.
Obvious candidates for today are yuma and RR, but how about vote: e as an alternate?
I don't actually think he's scum. I'm just saying those last two votes (from yuma and RR) look pretty suspicious at first glance. When you think about it some more it seems like it might be too bold a play for scum to make. Maybe I could see it from yuma?So Awaclus can still talk? Is that right? That's good to have.
Nk could be worse too, no offence to Ss.
Obvious candidates for today are yuma and RR, but how about vote: e as an alternate?
Why is RR an obvious candidate ?
Was there any problem with formatting or you just missed my vote?
I like that much more!
but I'm not so sure about igu being scum anymore after his most recent posts. His 'I went wrong as town last game, I'm not gonna do that mistake again' read genuine to me.
is your vote serious?
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
There are lots of towny people this game, not so many scummy people.
let's see
Witherweaver
yuma
silverspawn
Teproc
iguanaiguana
Hydrad
Roadrunner7671
2.7...
faust
Ampharos
EgorK
Awaclus
Haddock
vote: YPG
vote: Awaclus
vote: e
we should lynch one of those guys. too much stalling is going on right now.
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Vote Count :
silverspawn (6): yuma, WW, Hydrad, faust, iguanaiguana, Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): Teproc
Faust (1): silverspawn
Hydrad (1): EgorK
Not Voting (4): RR, 2.7, Ampharos, Haddock
Final Day 1 Vote Count:
Ampharos (1): Hydrad
yuma (1): Awaclus
2.7 (3): EgorK, Teproc, silverspawn
Awaclus (7): faust, WW, iguana, 2.7, Haddock, RR, yuma
Not Voting (1): Ampharos
I think in your second vote could you meant to make awaclus green?
I think in your second vote could you meant to make awaclus green?
Right, yes. It should be forbidden to have people with the same starting letter in the same game, clearly.
Thoughts on stuff, Hydrad ?
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Explain to me why, in your scenario, scum!yuma fakes a derphammer ?
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Explain to me why, in your scenario, scum!yuma fakes a derphammer ?
To get lynch through? As we would say as always "scum would never do this". Yuma would
To get lynch through? As we would say as always "scum would never do this". Yuma wouldI think yuma MIGHT.
So... the kill has no identifiable flavor, so I'm guessing yuma did not shoot? That's anti-town. yuma gets away with quite a lot of anti-town behaviour. Unfortunately, I am not convinced he is scum.
vote: faust
So... the kill has no identifiable flavor, so I'm guessing yuma did not shoot? That's anti-town. yuma gets away with quite a lot of anti-town behaviour. Unfortunately, I am not convinced he is scum.
Why is anti-town for yuma not to shoot here ?
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Explain to me why, in your scenario, scum!yuma fakes a derphammer ?
To get lynch through? As we would say as always "scum would never do this". Yuma would
Is an Awaclus lynch that hard to push through that he would have needed that ?
Vote: faust
Rational:
Day one went WAYYYY too long and I ended up getting talked out of everything I was working on by the end of the day, thus my vote not being on anyone. There was too much time for people to talk me out of my position. I'm going back to one of the loose ends that I worked on a lot - I'm not convinced faust is town.
(I initially wanted to vote Teproc here, but his debate about Yuma using his shot or not and the end of Day 1 has won me over for now).
Also, very interested to hear from Yuma.
I think your reads should take into account the new information we have. Going back to your D1 reads without considering how they fit with the flips and wagons we have is bad.This is true. I'm also a bit guilty of this, but will be having a proper look and a rethink soon.
vote: faust
So I'm guessing, by your previous posts, that this vote is because I am a null read of silver, I would make sense as a night kill, and I was on two town wagons... is that about right?
People I suspect coming out of D1:I'll look at the faust case later.
Faust, e, Yuma, Roadrunner, EgorK, Teproc
Faust played very differently yesterday. I didn't see him generate a lot of ideas. I just saw him sheeping a lot of other players, like he was just trying to find a reason to get on the wagon that already had most people. Then toward the end of the day he started recording our voting history and pouring back over the day. Thing is, everything he did is stuff that scum could do without much risk if the consensus is that people are not going to vote for you anyway.
Then there's the NK. My thinking was that scum would target whoever was doing the most to help town. Based on reputation, that would be Faust. Based on helpfulness during this actual game, maybe Teproc. So that makes me suspect both of them a little bit, but Faust a little more because of what I already said.
But what worries me now is that we are hunting for scum among a lot of very towny, active players. And that means muddy waters.
Vote: Faust
PPE: looks like some of this is already discussed
But I'm surprised you're arguing that the not-shooting part is anti-town, as opposed to the "you're mean, I'm refusing to cooperate" part.
@Haddock : What makes you so convinced there's scum on the Awaclus wagon ? I mean, statistically yeah, but more than that ?Well statistics. And, well, its a mislynch. Scum like mislynches. It just seems really likely to me.
Even assuming the Awaclus was driven by scum, do ou really find that scum thinks of NKs in that way ? You have been scum once I think, did "off/on wagon" enter the NK discussion there ?
People I suspect coming out of D1:
Faust, e, Yuma, Roadrunner, EgorK, Teproc
Faust played very differently yesterday. I didn't see him generate a lot of ideas. I just saw him sheeping a lot of other players, like he was just trying to find a reason to get on the wagon that already had most people. Then toward the end of the day he started recording our voting history and pouring back over the day. Thing is, everything he did is stuff that scum could do without much risk if the consensus is that people are not going to vote for you anyway.
Then there's the NK. My thinking was that scum would target whoever was doing the most to help town. Based on reputation, that would be Faust. Based on helpfulness during this actual game, maybe Teproc. So that makes me suspect both of them a little bit, but Faust a little more because of what I already said.
But what worries me now is that we are hunting for scum among a lot of very towny, active players. And that means muddy waters.
Vote: Faust
PPE: looks like some of this is already discussed
@Haddock : What makes you so convinced there's scum on the Awaclus wagon ? I mean, statistically yeah, but more than that ?Well statistics. And, well, its a mislynch. Scum like mislynches. It just seems really likely to me.
Even assuming the Awaclus was driven by scum, do ou really find that scum thinks of NKs in that way ? You have been scum once I think, did "off/on wagon" enter the NK discussion there ?
In my game yes we definitely considered on versus off-wagon. As a primary concern. Also true in a couple of scum Qts I have read.
It's interesting that there is not more attention on e. I mean, before the Awaclus wagon happened, it looked like e was going to be lynched. The question whether or not he is scum seems like the important thing to figure out today. I definitely prefer D1 wagon analysis to WIFOMy arguments about why scum would or wouldn't shoot people.
People I suspect coming out of D1:
Faust, e, Yuma, Roadrunner, EgorK, Teproc
Faust played very differently yesterday. I didn't see him generate a lot of ideas. I just saw him sheeping a lot of other players, like he was just trying to find a reason to get on the wagon that already had most people. Then toward the end of the day he started recording our voting history and pouring back over the day. Thing is, everything he did is stuff that scum could do without much risk if the consensus is that people are not going to vote for you anyway.
Then there's the NK. My thinking was that scum would target whoever was doing the most to help town. Based on reputation, that would be Faust. Based on helpfulness during this actual game, maybe Teproc. So that makes me suspect both of them a little bit, but Faust a little more because of what I already said.
But what worries me now is that we are hunting for scum among a lot of very towny, active players. And that means muddy waters.
Vote: Faust
PPE: looks like some of this is already discussed
Haddock already said a lot of what I would say to this. Can you provide examples of me sheeping people? Also, if you wish to go for players who are not activ,e I'm sure there are lots of players who fit that description better than me.
Thread page. I'm on a tablet but I dont see why that would make a difference.@Haddock : What makes you so convinced there's scum on the Awaclus wagon ? I mean, statistically yeah, but more than that ?Well statistics. And, well, its a mislynch. Scum like mislynches. It just seems really likely to me.
Even assuming the Awaclus was driven by scum, do ou really find that scum thinks of NKs in that way ? You have been scum once I think, did "off/on wagon" enter the NK discussion there ?
In my game yes we definitely considered on versus off-wagon. As a primary concern. Also true in a couple of scum Qts I have read.
Huh. Ok.
Scum likes mislynches, but they also like letting town do all the dirty work themselves.
PPE (Haddock not getting a PPE) : I'm very curious about that, because it's never happened to me. Did you respond via email or from the thread page ?
Hello!
vote: faust
So I'm guessing, by your previous posts, that this vote is because I am a null read of silver, I would make sense as a night kill, and I was on two town wagons... is that about right?
Welcome back!
I'd like to hear from Yuma.So would we all, I think.
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Explain to me why, in your scenario, scum!yuma fakes a derphammer ?
There's also yuma, though I still think he's town. Annoying, but town.
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Explain to me why, in your scenario, scum!yuma fakes a derphammer ?
To get lynch through? As we would say as always "scum would never do this". Yuma would
So... the kill has no identifiable flavor, so I'm guessing yuma did not shoot? That's anti-town. yuma gets away with quite a lot of anti-town behaviour. Unfortunately, I am not convinced he is scum.
So... the kill has no identifiable flavor, so I'm guessing yuma did not shoot? That's anti-town. yuma gets away with quite a lot of anti-town behaviour. Unfortunately, I am not convinced he is scum.
Why is anti-town for yuma not to shoot here ?
I've been over why I thought yuma should shoot. This and his end-of-D1 behaviour is only really excusable if he was going to shoot and tried to make scum think he wouldn't.
Not shooting Night1
Town is probably annoyed with me. And, contrary to what I said I am not annoyed with them. I said those things in hopes of absorbing a mafia night action of some sort with my antics getting them to think that I was going to shoot tonight."
I didnt get a PPE there, btw. So its not completely foolproof.
Though, the fact that Yuma derphammered town, as town, before (i.e., me) makes it more suspicious here, not less.
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
I don't care if you are sorry.
vote: egorK looking for an easy mislynch on me
Vote: yuma. I do not believe about not getting PPE, sorry
Explain to me why, in your scenario, scum!yuma fakes a derphammer ?
To get lynch through? As we would say as always "scum would never do this". Yuma would
Do we always say, "scum would never do this?"
Cause I don't think we do. I feel like I have been on the minority soapbox for a long, long, long time trying to get people to stop voting for weird or unusual behavior (as opposed to scummy behavior) and can't get any traction on this.
So for me to hypothetically do this as scum would require me to count on someone else saying "scum would never do this" (cause my word alone obviously wouldn't be sufficient) and I am certainly not confident that others would... and even if they did I can guarantee that there would be others who for some reason would feel compelled to add the caveat that you just did "yuma would", which while completely inaccurate in the case of this game is also completely inaccurate in the assessment of me as a scum player.
I take risks as scum. But calculated, well thought out risks. Not ridiculous ploys in which I base the entire game on whether or not someone comes rushing to my defense.
But that's exactly what's happen. Someone do some tiny weird scummy thing - they got lynched over it. Someone do something really scummy for a day - nah, scum never do this.
Also OMGUS
Also do not see anything easy in this (not mis)lynch. I anticipate uphill battle because see above
Can you provide a single example of you voting for someone on your own initiative in this game?
Actually I kind of like off-wagon, which would only leave EgorK, Ampharos, Hydrad, and Teproc. Teproc sounds town.
Can you provide a single example of you voting for someone on your own initiative in this game?
I started the Awaclus wagon. I could list other examples, but you know, you asked for a single one, so I'm not going to do that work.
And my end-of-Day1 behavior, the hammer aside, was an attempt to make it look like to scum that I was going to shoot.
faust, was Awaclus your strongest scum read at the end of day 1 ?
Actually I kind of like off-wagon, which would only leave EgorK, Ampharos, Hydrad, and Teproc. Teproc sounds town.
Why this? I mean, Egor, Ampharos and Hydrad are all a bit scummy, so the selection is not bad, but you seem to have come to this the other way around.
Actually I kind of like off-wagon, which would only leave EgorK, Ampharos, Hydrad, and Teproc. Teproc sounds town.
Why this? I mean, Egor, Ampharos and Hydrad are all a bit scummy, so the selection is not bad, but you seem to have come to this the other way around.
Because the Awaclus lynch seemed mostly town driven. I could see myself as scum, knowing Awaclus is town, thinking it's not necessary to get on this one. I think Teproc said this as well.
If the lynch seems town-driven why not jump on it to get town credit and ensure it going through as scum? Win/win
If the lynch seems town-driven why not jump on it to get town credit and ensure it going through as scum? Win/win
Well, you still know it's a mislynch and know it will be analyzed.
But that's exactly what's happen. Someone do some tiny weird scummy thing - they got lynched over it. Someone do something really scummy for a day - nah, scum never do this.
Also OMGUS
Also do not see anything easy in this (not mis)lynch. I anticipate uphill battle because see above
But, I as scum. Couldn't have anticipated that. I would have to do that to feel confident to take said risk. And that is putting the entire onus on someone else to take that responsibility for me, and that just isn't how scum thinks or operates in general and is absolutely not how I operate as scum.
If the lynch seems town-driven why not jump on it to get town credit and ensure it going through as scum? Win/win
Well, you still know it's a mislynch and know it will be analyzed.
And if it is town driven you'd got town points for it. Exactly what you need
Can you provide a single example of you voting for someone on your own initiative in this game?
I started the Awaclus wagon. I could list other examples, but you know, you asked for a single one, so I'm not going to do that work.
Well, rekindled.
The main thing that makes me think Faust is town is his outburst against Iguanaiguana on early D1. As scum, he should've and probably woulf've continued leading the town (to destruction, like he does when he is scum).
I'm thinking about Vote: Iguanaiguana , but I'm not sure if that's the right move.
PPE
Can you provide a single example of you voting for someone on your own initiative in this game?
I started the Awaclus wagon. I could list other examples, but you know, you asked for a single one, so I'm not going to do that work.
Well, rekindled.
This. Exactly. You got on a lynch that many people had already expressed they wanted to vote for. I hardly think that constitutes starting the wagon.
But that's exactly what's happen. Someone do some tiny weird scummy thing - they got lynched over it. Someone do something really scummy for a day - nah, scum never do this.
Also OMGUS
Also do not see anything easy in this (not mis)lynch. I anticipate uphill battle because see above
But, I as scum. Couldn't have anticipated that. I would have to do that to feel confident to take said risk. And that is putting the entire onus on someone else to take that responsibility for me, and that just isn't how scum thinks or operates in general and is absolutely not how I operate as scum.
Except that now you are defending yourself. So as scum you could very well have anticipated this negative backlash and decided in advance that you would be able to handle it yourself, using these very arguments. Its either town!Yuma or scum!Yuma defending himself and NOT relying on anyone else to do it for him. And you are doing a damn fine job of it as usual. So I'm pretty sure all you can really say is "Yuma is hard to lynch." This is all independent of alignment.
If the lynch seems town-driven why not jump on it to get town credit and ensure it going through as scum? Win/win
Well, you still know it's a mislynch and know it will be analyzed.
And if it is town driven you'd got town points for it. Exactly what you need
But not so easy to predict that others will feel this way.
That's why I'm not sure if it's the right move. But pressure isn't a huge problem.The main thing that makes me think Faust is town is his outburst against Iguanaiguana on early D1. As scum, he should've and probably woulf've continued leading the town (to destruction, like he does when he is scum).
I'm thinking about Vote: Iguanaiguana , but I'm not sure if that's the right move.
PPE
Because if Faust is town, and we disagree, therefore I am scum?
Can you provide a single example of you voting for someone on your own initiative in this game?
I started the Awaclus wagon. I could list other examples, but you know, you asked for a single one, so I'm not going to do that work.
Well, rekindled.
This. Exactly. You got on a lynch that many people had already expressed they wanted to vote for. I hardly think that constitutes starting the wagon.
Well, I think placing the first vote constitutes starting a wagon. I'm all excited to hear your definition though.
On whose initiative do you suggest I placed that Awaclus vote if not on my own, I wonder?
But that's exactly what's happen. Someone do some tiny weird scummy thing - they got lynched over it. Someone do something really scummy for a day - nah, scum never do this.
Also OMGUS
Also do not see anything easy in this (not mis)lynch. I anticipate uphill battle because see above
But, I as scum. Couldn't have anticipated that. I would have to do that to feel confident to take said risk. And that is putting the entire onus on someone else to take that responsibility for me, and that just isn't how scum thinks or operates in general and is absolutely not how I operate as scum.
Except that now you are defending yourself. So as scum you could very well have anticipated this negative backlash and decided in advance that you would be able to handle it yourself, using these very arguments. Its either town!Yuma or scum!Yuma defending himself and NOT relying on anyone else to do it for him. And you are doing a damn fine job of it as usual. So I'm pretty sure all you can really say is "Yuma is hard to lynch." This is all independent of alignment.
Sure, of course I am going to defend myself. That IS something that I could count on in this hypothetical universe that EgorK is presenting. But scum needs more than that. Scum can't handle arguments all by themselves if there is a lynch wagon on them they need other people to come to their defense. That is essential.
I am hard to lynch as either alignment. But I am easier to lynch as scum. I have been lynched as scum probably 10 times in all the games I have played. I have been mislynched once as town, in M11. But that is an aside. The main point is above... and it is that mafia shouldn't (and doesn't) do crazy/ridiculous things that relies on another subset of people to interpret said action in a townie way and defend them. Because my saying "scum would never do that" alone doesn't suffice and I am not going to put the game on relying on someone else to say it for me. I would just not do the said crazy/ridiculous thing to begin with... It isn't like I was forced into claiming here... and obviously no one forced me to mistakenly hammer (or forced me to appear to mistakenly hammer). According to EgorK those were choices I made, but the narrative for why I made them and the narrative that I would rely on "scum would never do that" is faulty.
Ok. Then say what I did was scummy and show it and I will refute it. But I won't have a problem with it. But don't use the "he thought people would never think he would do this as scum" as a reason to vote. That isn't evidence. That is conjecture.
I am not saying people shouldn't analyze or be suspicious of anything I or others have done. That, as you say, is mafia.
Ok. Then say what I did was scummy and show it and I will refute it. But I won't have a problem with it. But don't use the "he thought people would never think he would do this as scum" as a reason to vote. That isn't evidence. That is conjecture.
I am not saying people shouldn't analyze or be suspicious of anything I or others have done. That, as you say, is mafia.
Fair enough. I think our argument was mostly a misunderstanding as to what the other was saying. I do not suspect you the way Egor does, but I also don't think you are Obv!town now like I did before your erratic behavior. That is all I meant to say.
What are your thoughts on Day 1?
I'd prefer not to lynch Hydrad today.On reread, me neither.
Actually I kind of like off-wagon, which would only leave EgorK, Ampharos, Hydrad, and Teproc. Teproc sounds town.Of these, Egor is the only one that seems scummy straight away, to me.
And, yes, this was my thought before looking to see who was on and off wagon.This grabbed me earlier as I was skimming. You're seriously claiming that you picked Egor, Amph, Hydrad and Teproc as lynchable before looking at the wagons? Seems... unlikely. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.
And, yes, this was my thought before looking to see who was on and off wagon.This grabbed me earlier as I was skimming. You're seriously claiming that you picked Egor, Amph, Hydrad and Teproc as lynchable before looking at the wagons? Seems... unlikely. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.
Ok. Then say what I did was scummy and show it and I will refute it. But I won't have a problem with it. But don't use the "he thought people would never think he would do this as scum" as a reason to vote. That isn't evidence. That is conjecture.
I am not saying people shouldn't analyze or be suspicious of anything I or others have done. That, as you say, is mafia.
Fair enough. I think our argument was mostly a misunderstanding as to what the other was saying. I do not suspect you the way Egor does, but I also don't think you are Obv!town now like I did before your erratic behavior. That is all I meant to say.
What are your thoughts on Day 1?
I don't know. Egork is still suspect. Someone brought up that we had two wagons get to L-1, three if you include me at L-2, yesterday so I would like to look at some wagons that might have started but got distracted by those bigger ones...
So I think egork fits that bill and a few others....
And, yes, this was my thought before looking to see who was on and off wagon.This grabbed me earlier as I was skimming. You're seriously claiming that you picked Egor, Amph, Hydrad and Teproc as lynchable before looking at the wagons? Seems... unlikely. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.
No, I mean, I thought: off-wagon is good. Who is off-wagon (went back and looked); it's these people.
And, yes, this was my thought before looking to see who was on and off wagon.This grabbed me earlier as I was skimming. You're seriously claiming that you picked Egor, Amph, Hydrad and Teproc as lynchable before looking at the wagons? Seems... unlikely. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.
No, I mean, I thought: off-wagon is good. Who is off-wagon (went back and looked); it's these people.
I'm not really sure what I think about this off-wagon idea. Its kind of arbitrary. Also, its rather convenient for you, since you were on-wagon.
Ok. Then say what I did was scummy and show it and I will refute it. But I won't have a problem with it. But don't use the "he thought people would never think he would do this as scum" as a reason to vote. That isn't evidence. That is conjecture.
I am not saying people shouldn't analyze or be suspicious of anything I or others have done. That, as you say, is mafia.
Fair enough. I think our argument was mostly a misunderstanding as to what the other was saying. I do not suspect you the way Egor does, but I also don't think you are Obv!town now like I did before your erratic behavior. That is all I meant to say.
What are your thoughts on Day 1?
I don't know. Egork is still suspect. Someone brought up that we had two wagons get to L-1, three if you include me at L-2, yesterday so I would like to look at some wagons that might have started but got distracted by those bigger ones...
So I think egork fits that bill and a few others....
I agree. I also think that coming right out and voting you could have been a move that scum would make (at least, if you are town). I'm not sure, though. Suspecting you above everyone else could come from town, too. I mean look at Awaclus. Then there's the fact that I tried to get a lynch on Egor for most of the day yesterday and it never got any traction; that's always suspicious.
Do you have thoughts on Faust? He also got away with very little scrutiny yesterday.
Still wondering if Awaclus can talk. From my understanding of treestumps, he can, but he doesn't have to, and he doesn't get a vote.
I imagine if he can talk, he'll probably say something like, "you guys need to lynch Yuma."
I don't feel great about WW here.
Vote: WW
I don't feel great about WW here.
Vote: WW
I don't feel great about WW here.
Vote: WW
i could theoretically vote here. but i would need more than your "feels" to make any sort of judgement.
want to expand on you feels?
I don't feel great about WW here.
Vote: WW
i could theoretically vote here. but i would need more than your "feels" to make any sort of judgement.
want to expand on you feels?
Well, just looking at this day: The whole thing about looking off-wagon feels a bit constructed. You look at people off-wagon, and there are Ampharos, Egor, Hydrad. Ampharos and Egor were discussed lynch candidates D1 and Hydrad is kinda lurky. It sucks for scum if these players get a pass. And I don't really buy the narrative; sure, scum might think they can get a town-driven lynch in, and that's good. But they also might think "Awaclus really is scummy, so there's no harm in getting on that wagon." I don't see why it should be one over the other.
Plus, I really don't like how he just shrugs off everything with a joke/snarky comment. That's bullying people into not voting for him, when what he should be doing is convince them he is town.
That's just today; I think I will reread WW's D1 later on.
I'm okay with the Awaclus vote, but I don't think it would get us a whole lot.
well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
Looking further at the "off-wagon" thing, this is how two of the suspects reaced to the wagon:I'm okay with the Awaclus vote, but I don't think it would get us a whole lot.well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
Egor did not post anything since the wagon started. That certainly does not seem like people trying to dissociate themselves from the Awaclus wagon...
Looking further at the "off-wagon" thing, this is how two of the suspects reaced to the wagon:I'm okay with the Awaclus vote, but I don't think it would get us a whole lot.well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
Egor did not post anything since the wagon started. That certainly does not seem like people trying to dissociate themselves from the Awaclus wagon...
Hm? It's noncommittal and doesn't get much attention. Goes along with public opinion without really doing anything.
This argument is crazy.
Of course some scum stayed off the wagon for towncred. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all the scum are onwagon. That would seem bizarre.
It's almost certainly a little bit of both here.
This argument is crazy.
Of course some scum stayed off the wagon for towncred. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all the scum are onwagon. That would seem bizarre.
It's almost certainly a little bit of both here.
This argument is crazy.
Of course some scum stayed off the wagon for towncred. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all the scum are onwagon. That would seem bizarre.
It's almost certainly a little bit of both here.
It's not impossible. Certain scum players (Ashersky for one) have specifically discussed and planned voting patterns in the scum QT to affect wagon analysis.
PPEs
Hmm, I misremembered some things. Need to refresh my memory
Also, had anyone but yuma and Haddock ever encountered not getting PPE?
If we think scum was not all-on wagon, we should definitely lynch off-wagon, thoseare some great odds (1/3 for off-wagon people, 1/4 for others).
If we think scum was not all-on wagon, we should definitely lynch off-wagon, thoseare some great odds (1/3 for off-wagon people, 1/4 for others).
1/4 is worse than random assuming 3 scum.
PPE : Right. It looks better for me (mostly because I think Egork and Hydrad are both good scummy anyway).
I don't recall. But, I have a hard time seeing Yuma (or, well, anyone) lie about this. I mean you have the "scum wouldn't do it because it's a bad idea" effect to make it a better idea, but still. He'd have to see the post before his and on-the-spot decide it's a good idea to hammer and lie about it. You'd tend to stop and consider the possible fallout as scum.Hurr. It is slightly reminiscent of Awa's hammer on RR, D2 in Harry Potter Mafia, which also looked like a very quick decision to hammer and then lie about why ("I thought RR was the vengeful..."). Different circumstances, though, that was a desperate bus.
By the way, something I didn't mention earlier : it's notable that Haddock basically made the Awaclus lynch happen. One minute its e and Awaclus both at 4 votes, then Haddock switches and it's 3v5. I'm still not entirely sure what to do with that, but it's worth noting for later, especially once e flips.Yeah that was crazy. I really didn't think that by putting him at L-2 it was going to make the lynch happen straight away. I was kinda shocked when it happened so quickly after that, hence my couple of panic-mode posts.
PPE : Right. It looks better for me (mostly because I think Egork and Hydrad are both good scummy anyway).
Well, okay, but then you should really make a case for why they are scummy and not make some flimsy statistical argument.
By the way, something I didn't mention earlier : it's notable that Haddock basically made the Awaclus lynch happen. One minute its e and Awaclus both at 4 votes, then Haddock switches and it's 3v5. I'm still not entirely sure what to do with that, but it's worth noting for later, especially once e flips.
PPE : Right. It looks better for me (mostly because I think Egork and Hydrad are both good scummy anyway).
Hmm, I misremembered some things. Need to refresh my memory
Also, had anyone but yuma and Haddock ever encountered not getting PPE?
Huh. On the other hand, I'm not so fond of his vote for Awaclus. It was pretty heavily justified, which I often find to come from scum more than town.I was pulling a complete 180 with regards to my read on him. I figured that required some explanation.
Huh. On the other hand, I'm not so fond of his vote for Awaclus. It was pretty heavily justified, which I often find to come from scum more than town.I was pulling a complete 180 with regards to my read on him. I figured that required some explanation.
Meh. You've been in games with me before, as scum and town. You should know that I tend to overindulge on explanation as both alignments. You should also know that I'm quite unlikely to pull total 180s, I'd hardly be drawing attention to myself like that as scum.Huh. On the other hand, I'm not so fond of his vote for Awaclus. It was pretty heavily justified, which I often find to come from scum more than town.I was pulling a complete 180 with regards to my read on him. I figured that required some explanation.
Yeah that doesn't really make it townier.
First of all Amapharos, why should we think you are town?
You seemed scummier day one, you've toned it down today.
But on Day One, when people started suspecting you, you seemed scummy in your defense.
Especially the 'fun' one. Town would've said why they didn't panic so much, but you pretended that the potential lynch was a joke.
There's not a great case, and I make it sound worse, but I think voting for you is the best use of my vote as of now.
No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.
Ampharos' constant and neverending insistence on lynching Faust does not make me like the Faust wagon.
Question for Ampharos:
What do you think about players who are not named Faust?
I’m actually okay with you voting me here - I think if I was observing myself without knowing my role, I’d probably be somewhat suspicious of myself. I need something to keep me honest and prevent me from getting lazy like I might do if I’m cleared as town.
Scum can easily get frustrated. It doesn't have to be a fabrication.
I'm townish on Ampharos now.
Ampharos' constant and neverending insistence on lynching Faust does not make me like the Faust wagon.
Question for Ampharos:
What do you think about players who are not named Faust?
Yeah, I get that, but this is what I do, especially after a largely fruitless Day 1 that lasted as long as it did. As I previously said, I got talked off all my soapboxes and out of all my votes (thus me not even voting at the end of the day), because the day was so long and people had so much time to try to change my mind. And it worked.
Let me write up another list for you. Coming soon.
I'm townish on Ampharos now.
I'm townish on Ampharos now.
Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.
I'm townish on Ampharos now.
Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.
I'm holding out for a derphammer opportunity.
I’m actually okay with you voting me here - I think if I was observing myself without knowing my role, I’d probably be somewhat suspicious of myself. I need something to keep me honest and prevent me from getting lazy like I might do if I’m cleared as town.
So you think that your play is scummy, why do you then play that way?
No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.
I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason. Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators.
However.
faust knows that, I'm sure. He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment. It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.
All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta. Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust. I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members. It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it. To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies. I get being like that, because I am often like that. So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game? He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies. To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off? It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z". People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.
I’m actually okay with you voting me here - I think if I was observing myself without knowing my role, I’d probably be somewhat suspicious of myself. I need something to keep me honest and prevent me from getting lazy like I might do if I’m cleared as town.
So you think that your play is scummy, why do you then play that way?
This is the type of comment I was referring to in point 2 of my posts about 10 back (y no post counts in Post Reply mode, sad day).
Like, do you really want to know the answer? I'm glad to tell you but really have no idea what bearing it has on the actual game.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off? It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z". People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.
No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.
I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason. Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators.
However.
faust knows that, I'm sure. He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment. It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.
All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta. Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust. I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members. It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it. To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies. I get being like that, because I am often like that. So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game? He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies. To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off? It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z". People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.
So you're comparing me to a game where I was scum, see that I'm different here, and conclude that I must be scum?
Of course that game where I was a Traitor I needed to play differently. I needed to be this super town person. I accidentally lynched my partner D1, and my other partner soon had a guilty result on him. So it all came down to me, and I needed to put some serious effort in to win. It was thrilling, it was fun, but it also was exhausting. So sorry if I'm not as present.
And about 3 - I think at least Haddock explicitly stated why he doesn't like my wagon. So did RR, whether you like his reason or not. Who are these people who say "he just seems like town"? I don't think they exist.
PPE 10. Wow.
I’m actually okay with you voting me here - I think if I was observing myself without knowing my role, I’d probably be somewhat suspicious of myself. I need something to keep me honest and prevent me from getting lazy like I might do if I’m cleared as town.
So you think that your play is scummy, why do you then play that way?
This is the type of comment I was referring to in point 2 of my posts about 10 back (y no post counts in Post Reply mode, sad day).
Like, do you really want to know the answer? I'm glad to tell you but really have no idea what bearing it has on the actual game.
Yes, I do.
No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.
I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason. Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators.
However.
faust knows that, I'm sure. He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment. It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.
All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta. Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust. I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members. It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it. To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies. I get being like that, because I am often like that. So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game? He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies. To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off? It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z". People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.
So you're comparing me to a game where I was scum, see that I'm different here, and conclude that I must be scum?
Of course that game where I was a Traitor I needed to play differently. I needed to be this super town person. I accidentally lynched my partner D1, and my other partner soon had a guilty result on him. So it all came down to me, and I needed to put some serious effort in to win. It was thrilling, it was fun, but it also was exhausting. So sorry if I'm not as present.
And about 3 - I think at least Haddock explicitly stated why he doesn't like my wagon. So did RR, whether you like his reason or not. Who are these people who say "he just seems like town"? I don't think they exist.
PPE 10. Wow.
Scums sure like the yuma lynch. Although the faust vote seems like town who isn't appreciative of yuma's current approach to the game.
A man wants to vote for Teproc.:o
A man wants to vote for Teproc.
classic RR plays.I am classic now?
A man wants to vote for Teproc.
A man wants to vote for Teproc.
Valar morghulis.
He's more defensive of yuma than anyone else in the game. He seems really really sure that yuma is town, way more confident than anyone else in the game. Meh, confidence isn't inherently scummy.
He's more defensive of yuma than anyone else in the game. He seems really really sure that yuma is town, way more confident than anyone else in the game. Meh, confidence isn't inherently scummy.
So... this is definitely confirmation bias talking on my part, but just putting it out there : scum tends to be more trusting of claims such as yuma's (ie more or less a named VT) than town. Because they know they're true, and aren't as incentivized to fight them than "real" PRs (investigative PRs especially). They also know it's in scum's best interest to fight the IC-fication of someone, but if they think it won't succeed, they tend to be way more trusting because they think they'll appear scummy if they fight it. And when it's a player like yuma, they figure he's going to be hard to lynch, so the best solution is to kill him at some point.
A message for Amapharos:
Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.
A message for Amapharos:
Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.
A message for Amapharos:
Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.
This isn't productive. Do I get an 'ugh' because I defended Faust so poorly, an 'ugh' because my views are crazy in your eyes, or an 'ugh' for some other reason?A message for Amapharos:
Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.
Ugh
This isn't productive. Do I get an 'ugh' because I defended Faust so poorly, an 'ugh' because my views are crazy in your eyes, or an 'ugh' for some other reason?A message for Amapharos:
Scum Faust probably would have continued to lead the town. The outburst should have been saved for a future game when he was town. Hanging up his hat in a game where he is scum would be a bad idea.
Ugh
but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.Saying what most game?
This assumes emotions are fake. As it has been discussed many times recently this is not a good assumption to make. Again : people don't stop being human because they're scum.
but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.Saying what most game?
No, I'm saying he can't possibly be faking it!but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.Saying what most game?
That you should never assume people are faking emotions.
If you're not going to trust the reasoning, trust the experience. I've been playing on these boards for a little over two years, yuma more than three. I don't think I've ever seen scum completely fake an emotional reaction. I have seen scum get upset at stuff. Very upset in fact. And maybe sometimes scum uses the position that puts them in to their advantage, but the point is : it doesn't happen. Also it's not very nice when you're upset and all people are talking about is how you could be scum faking it.
More to the point of this particular game : that particular faust post is one he could make as any alignment. Being frustrated with meta expectations happens to everyone.
Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.Should I add that to my meta list?
No, I'm saying he can't possibly be faking it!but mostly what teproc said... but I feel like I have been saying that for like 50+ games and I am tired of saying it.Saying what most game?
That you should never assume people are faking emotions.
If you're not going to trust the reasoning, trust the experience. I've been playing on these boards for a little over two years, yuma more than three. I don't think I've ever seen scum completely fake an emotional reaction. I have seen scum get upset at stuff. Very upset in fact. And maybe sometimes scum uses the position that puts them in to their advantage, but the point is : it doesn't happen. Also it's not very nice when you're upset and all people are talking about is how you could be scum faking it.
More to the point of this particular game : that particular faust post is one he could make as any alignment. Being frustrated with meta expectations happens to everyone.
It's a towny thing to do in my opinion, and I don't think it's fake.
Right, but "it's real" doesn't equal "it's towny". You're free to think that in this particular case it is townie of course, but the point is that scum can have emotional reactions too, and the way you've been presenting this is "well if he was scum he'd be faking it, but it seems real so he's town".
PPE (WW) : Be nice, you. And vote for someone. Someone's who's scum, preferably.
As Yuma would say, 'ugh.'
I have no idea how you guys got 'RR is saying scum can't have emotion' from my post.
Do I need to be more clear? Scum can have emotion, but it's not tactical to let your emotion override your chances to win. I consider Faust to be a very tactical player, I think he knows this.
I'm just looking crazier and crazier the more I post, aren't I?
PPE 2
It's fine to disagree. You think faust is town, fine. Who do you think is scum again ?Amapharos
I think his point is that as Traitor, you had to figure everyone's alignment out. As Town, you have to figure everyone's alignment out. As regular Mafia, you know the alignments (modulo third parties). It isn't as bad of a point as you make it out to be.
Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.
Right, but "it's real" doesn't equal "it's towny". You're free to think that in this particular case it is townie of course, but the point is that scum can have emotional reactions too, and the way you've been presenting this is "well if he was scum he'd be faking it, but it seems real so he's town".
PPE (WW) : Be nice, you. And vote for someone. Someone's who's scum, preferably.
Vote: Faust
Why does everyone think this is so terrible?Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.
I had an angry response to this, but decided to delete it.
Right, but "it's real" doesn't equal "it's towny". You're free to think that in this particular case it is townie of course, but the point is that scum can have emotional reactions too, and the way you've been presenting this is "well if he was scum he'd be faking it, but it seems real so he's town".
PPE (WW) : Be nice, you. And vote for someone. Someone's who's scum, preferably.
Vote: Faust
Come on. Sure you could do something more useful with your vote.
Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.Should I add that to my meta list?
Ampharos' constant and neverending insistence on lynching Faust does not make me like the Faust wagon.
Question for Ampharos:
What do you think about players who are not named Faust?
Yeah, I get that, but this is what I do, especially after a largely fruitless Day 1 that lasted as long as it did. As I previously said, I got talked off all my soapboxes and out of all my votes (thus me not even voting at the end of the day), because the day was so long and people had so much time to try to change my mind. And it worked.
Let me write up another list for you. Coming soon.
Eh, screw that. I'm at work.
You have any 1 or 2 players specifically you want me to look at in depth? I don't want to do a half-behinded (lel I just made that up and think it is funny) "oh um yeah they're um town" type thing about everyone, and don't have time to in depth everyone right now.
You pick, I'll let you know.
Yay!Hi my name is Roadrunner and I like to miss the point.Should I add that to my meta list?
It's kinda funny to imagine Roadrunner opening this random word document on his computer that is a list of, currently, like maybe six things about himself that he's not even sure are true, and then adding one more because someone else said it about him.
Don't worry Roadrunner, we'll help you figure out you!
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.This seems okay.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
Nope. You're claiming first.
You think wrongly!
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
Nope. You're claiming first.
I suppose town will have to decide. I'm not sure either way yet, I'll get back to you.
My initial thought is to believe faust's claim. However, he is a sly sly man.
My initial thought is to believe faust's claim. However, he is a sly sly man.
I'll take that as a compliment.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
Nope. You're claiming first.
I suppose town will have to decide. I'm not sure either way yet, I'll get back to you.
Well, uh, WW seems pretty clear-cut about this. I'm not sure he will listen to majority opinion.
You think wrongly!
Not even a "He chose... poorly" gif ? I'm disappointed WW.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
Nope. You're claiming first.
I suppose town will have to decide. I'm not sure either way yet, I'll get back to you.
Well, uh, WW seems pretty clear-cut about this. I'm not sure he will listen to majority opinion.
Well, if we get a majority that wants him to claim first, and he doesn't, we can lynch, and gain a ton of info from it. A LOT.
Still not sure how I want to vote though.
PPE Teproc types fast.
faust, I am curious about two things though, while we're waiting for other people to weigh in.
a) Why claim now ? Presumably you were intending on doing a CJM*, and the wagon on you made you claim, but you were only at L-2 after all.
b) Before you even mentioned or interacted with WW on day 2, you commented on yuma, on people voting for you and more importantly, you said that figuring out e's alignment was "the most important thing today". Have a comment on that ?
*CJM => Chocolate Jimmmm Maneuver. It's where you withold a scum result to try and lynch the guy without having to claim.
But really, going by WW's reaction, I'm not convinced we need any claims.
@WW : To be clear, lynching you without having you claim is not a desireable option, because if yo flip some town PR, faust can make up whatever he wants to go with that. But you know that, and because your interest is for town to win the game, you won't let that happen, and you'll claim. It sucks for you (assuming there is a consensus against you), but I don't see a better way to resolve this.
I really need yuma to weigh in on this, I'm not good with this stuff.Me neither!
I really need yuma to weigh in on this, I'm not good with this stuff.Me neither!
But WW is obviously a PR, as claiming VT wouldn't be a huge deal. So he will mine as well claim, as he's probably dead already.
Ppe
If you were a VT and you refuse to claim, no offense, but that's pretty stubborn and anti-town.I really need yuma to weigh in on this, I'm not good with this stuff.Me neither!
But WW is obviously a PR, as claiming VT wouldn't be a huge deal. So he will mine as well claim, as he's probably dead already.
Ppe
I don't think you're using the word "obviously" correctly.
If you were a VT and you refuse to claim, no offense, but that's pretty stubborn and anti-town.I really need yuma to weigh in on this, I'm not good with this stuff.Me neither!
But WW is obviously a PR, as claiming VT wouldn't be a huge deal. So he will mine as well claim, as he's probably dead already.
Ppe
I don't think you're using the word "obviously" correctly.
Have we ever tried the "both claim at the same time" solution ? Obviously it can't be literally at thesame time, but if we set a time and say within 5 seconds, has that been done ?
Maybe we can compromise. Flavor matters in this game. Maybe we can do something like :I like this.
- X claims his flavor
- Y claims his flavor, role and night action
- X claims his role and night action
With X being the towniest player. That way X can't completely invent whatever he wants based what Y says.
Ooh I like this more.Have we ever tried the "both claim at the same time" solution ? Obviously it can't be literally at thesame time, but if we set a time and say within 5 seconds, has that been done ?
That's an interesting approach; I don't think it has been taken before. I would be fine with it.
Maybe we can compromise. Flavor matters in this game. Maybe we can do something like :
- X claims his flavor
- Y claims his flavor, role and night action
- X claims his role and night action
With X being the towniest player. That way X can't completely invent whatever he wants based what Y says.
This I will be looking at now.Maybe we can compromise. Flavor matters in this game. Maybe we can do something like :
- X claims his flavor
- Y claims his flavor, role and night action
- X claims his role and night action
With X being the towniest player. That way X can't completely invent whatever he wants based what Y says.
I have breadcrumbed my flavor.
Maybe we can compromise. Flavor matters in this game. Maybe we can do something like :
- X claims his flavor
- Y claims his flavor, role and night action
- X claims his role and night action
With X being the towniest player. That way X can't completely invent whatever he wants based what Y says.
I have breadcrumbed my flavor.
As I said, I'll evaluate after Faust claims.
I dont think I do. well, I see one post, but its tenuous.
I think I see it. Interesting. Hmm.
@Haddock : WW constantly voting Awaclus is a meta thing. Right WW ? It was new to me this game but I assume it's because of Awa's playstyle and more specifically what happened in Fanfiction ?
I voted Awaclus every time he said something ridiculous about Yuma. It was my response instead of something mean.Meh. I was going on wagon alone without much context. I dont think we can draw that much from it, fwiw.
The more he insisted on tunneling the scummier I found him.
This.As I said, I'll evaluate after Faust claims.
Explain to me what the downside is of having you claim at the same time (basically) as faust ? It will out both of you, yeah, but that's done already.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
Nope. You're claiming first.
Because I can't tell yet if he's lying or not, and I want to know.
faust, I am curious about two things though, while we're waiting for other people to weigh in.
a) Why claim now ? Presumably you were intending on doing a CJM*, and the wagon on you made you claim, but you were only at L-2 after all.
b) Before you even mentioned or interacted with WW on day 2, you commented on yuma, on people voting for you and more importantly, you said that figuring out e's alignment was "the most important thing today". Have a comment on that ?
*CJM => Chocolate Jimmmm Maneuver. It's where you withold a scum result to try and lynch the guy without having to claim.
I really need yuma to weigh in on this, I'm not good with this stuff.
Because I can't tell yet if he's lying or not, and I want to know.
If he's lying, forcing him to claim at the same time as you should out that, since he will have to commit to something without having read your claim. You have to acknowledge the possibility, for us, that you are caught scum trying to weasel out of this.
Because I can't tell yet if he's lying or not, and I want to know.
If he's lying, forcing him to claim at the same time as you should out that, since he will have to commit to something without having read your claim. You have to acknowledge the possibility, for us, that you are caught scum trying to weasel out of this.
I think that you know I would play it differently, but then it's hard to see this from not my perspective.
Right but "?" is not a number, AFAIK. I get what you were going for though.I couldn't understand how someone could possibly type that quickly, so the '?' expressed my surprise.
I'm pretty sure I want faust to claim first, if we're still voting on that. I might change my mind though.
Hmm, I misremembered some things. Need to refresh my memory
Also, had anyone but yuma and Haddock ever encountered not getting PPE?
I'm townish on Ampharos now.
Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.
He's more defensive of yuma than anyone else in the game. He seems really really sure that yuma is town, way more confident than anyone else in the game. Meh, confidence isn't inherently scummy.
So... this is definitely confirmation bias talking on my part, but just putting it out there : scum tends to be more trusting of claims such as yuma's (ie more or less a named VT) than town. Because they know they're true, and aren't as incentivized to fight them than "real" PRs (investigative PRs especially). They also know it's in scum's best interest to fight the IC-fication of someone, but if they think it won't succeed, they tend to be way more trusting because they think they'll appear scummy if they fight it. And when it's a player like yuma, they figure he's going to be hard to lynch, so the best solution is to kill him at some point.
This gets me thinking. Scum did not kill Yuma last night.
3 possible reasons why:
1. He is town and they want him to shoot or at the very least are not afraid of him doing so.
2. He is town and they do not believe him to have his power he claims to.
3. He is scum.
-------
Toss 2 out. It doesn't really make sense.
1 means that if Yuma shoots, he is doing what scum want, or are not afraid of. That's bad.
3 is just bad.
Thus, because yuma was not killed last night, he is either scum, or scum are not afraid of his power and him using it would be in alignment with what they want.
-------
Thinking "out loud" here.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
Nope. You're claiming first.
And this is not negotiable.
Have we ever tried the "both claim at the same time" solution ? Obviously it can't be literally at thesame time, but if we set a time and say within 5 seconds, has that been done ?
After that, I do find faust scummier in this game and, in my opinion, while there isn't anything wrong with claiming at a high L-value I don't think that is a situation where you can start making demands of other players. The time for making demands has passed. If you wanted to make demands, do it before you came under pressure... otherwise I think the onus falls on the claimer to come forward and then make demands with full disclosure.
Heh, coming here to talk about how I probably was wrong with both cases I pursued this game and getting into this
unvote
Back to find WW breadcumb
After that, I do find faust scummier in this game and, in my opinion, while there isn't anything wrong with claiming at a high L-value I don't think that is a situation where you can start making demands of other players. The time for making demands has passed. If you wanted to make demands, do it before you came under pressure... otherwise I think the onus falls on the claimer to come forward and then make demands with full disclosure.
Eh... you're painting a strange picture here. First, I was under pressure today before I even made my first post, so I'm not exactly sure when "the time for making demands" was... And more importantly, I am not making demands. I proposed a plan that from my point of view is beneficial to town. Town can choose to go along with it or not. If the majority of the town agrees that it's a good plan, it will be them making the demands, not me.
I don't really get why WW would spark this useless breadcrumb discussion when he could just as easily flavor claim.I don't agree that it's useless. If a few people see the breadcrumbing and have an idea first, then when he eventually does flavor claim we might have some towny people who can then point out the breadcrumbing and say "yes this is supported by the breadcrumbing" or "no this isn't".
I think you should claim first and revoke your "demand" on WW.No demands should be revoked under any circumstances, as far as I can see.
But you are to an extent doing that to WW. At least to the extent that you are stating that you won't claim your result until WW claims his role.
But you are to an extent doing that to WW. At least to the extent that you are stating that you won't claim your result until WW claims his role.
Uh, I never said that. Like, I checked the thread, nowhere do I state something like this.
I don't really get why WW would spark this useless breadcrumb discussion when he could just as easily flavor claim.I don't agree that it's useless. If a few people see the breadcrumbing and have an idea first, then when he eventually does flavor claim we might have some towny people who can then point out the breadcrumbing and say "yes this is supported by the breadcrumbing" or "no this isn't".
WW's claiming second becomes much more viable if we have a few people who think they already know his flavour. Then he can't modify too much.
But you are to an extent doing that to WW. At least to the extent that you are stating that you won't claim your result until WW claims his role.
Uh, I never said that. Like, I checked the thread, nowhere do I state something like this.
Well then I misinterpreted what you said. At the very least I felt the above was implied.
So are you willing to claim your role/result right now then?
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
yuma : your opposition to a "simultaneous" claim is just based on principle ? Because faust made his claim at L-2 ?
If so I don't really think that's enough to outweigh the benefits.
Oh, because it forces WW to claim, right. Do you see a scenario here where WW doesn't en up claiming at all ?
I'm pretty sure I want faust to claim first, if we're still voting on that. I might change my mind though.
I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase for his flavor. We should do one of the suggested options (claim at the same time or XYX).
ok I'm caught up. also the WW images actually got a laugh out of me so +1 there.
Now for what to do. I personally don't see an issue with the same time claim. But I'm really interested why WW doesn't seem to like it. Its either a scum attempt to try to live longer or... hmmm... I'm trying to think why would town do this.
In my opinion I don't think a VT would be so reluctent to claim. So I feel it might be a PR. But at the same time it sounds like WW has a thought of why faust could have an incriminating result on him and it be wrong? I can't think of how that would happen really at all from and PR's I know of. other then just redirection stuff.
This doesn't really make much sense to me for town!WW.
So I'm in favor of both claim at same time or WW first I guess.
To be clear, it's not going to be exactly simultaneous, because someone is going to get a PPE with the other's claim.
The idea would be to say "they both claim at exactly 11:00 am", so they write their claim beforehand, and press post exactly then. Let's say that if one of them posts more than 10 seconds after the other, he gets auto-lynched.
Has WW agreed to this?
Has WW agreed to this?
No. And he shouldn't. They are discussing this like WW and faust are equals when it comes to claiming when they aren't.
Has WW agreed to this?
No. And he shouldn't. They are discussing this like WW and faust are equals when it comes to claiming when they aren't.
Wait, what ? Of course they are. They are both of unknown alignment.
Explain to me how it goes horribly wrong.
Faust is scummy. WW is middling to null.This is entirely your read. Don't go throwing around like this thing is objectively bad based only on your read, not everyone shares that read.
Which, fine, but if we're doing that it should be based on the reads of the town at large.Which I'm assuming people are taking into account with their claimvotes.
You are completely undermining the town!narrative for faust claiming at this particular point. If he's town, he's doing what Jimmmm did in Chococlate Factory, do you remember that ?
I am the Goon Cop.
Last Night I investigated ashersky.
He is a Goon.
Faust is scummy. WW is middling to null.This is entirely your read. Don't go throwing around like this thing is objectively bad based only on your read, not everyone shares that read.
I do agree with the internet problem issues.
Was this the only thing that I said in the post that you are quoting?The only other thing of meaning that you said was that there is a problem that WW might not want to claim.
Don't go throwing around edited quotes without remembering the context!
I thought he was under a lot of pressure, I guess I'm remembering that wrong.
I do understand the differences here, but I'm saying that faust claiming when he did isn't particularly scummy. It's not particularly townie either, it's a reasonable moment to claim as both alignments.
Was this the only thing that I said in the post that you are quoting?The only other thing of meaning that you said was that there is a problem that WW might not want to claim.
Don't go throwing around edited quotes without remembering the context!
Which I said I agree with, about 3 posts later.
You are completely undermining the town!narrative for faust claiming at this particular point. If he's town, he's doing what Jimmmm did in Chococlate Factory, do you remember that ?
I do remember... I was the mod...
What Jimmmmm did was somewhat different, let me go check... yeah... here it is:I am the Goon Cop.
Last Night I investigated ashersky.
He is a Goon.
Jimmmmm waited for about half a day to claim a result. But when he claimed it, he full claimed it. That is very different than partially claiming and then wanting the person you are partially claiming about to full claim as well.
What Jimmmmm did I was in full favor of, that is ideal play with an investigave role. But faust isn't doing that. I dont' know what he is doing. But he should full claim.
Plus that was an open game. This is closed. Again, different.
and Jimmmm wasn't under as much pressure, if any, the way that faust was here.
Was this the only thing that I said in the post that you are quoting?The only other thing of meaning that you said was that there is a problem that WW might not want to claim.
Don't go throwing around edited quotes without remembering the context!
Which I said I agree with, about 3 posts later.
But that is a much bigger issue to me than my individual read on them... it is what I have been talking about for the last 15 posts. the read, not as much.
1. I don't like the half claim.
2. if you are going to make a half claim it should be made earlier
3. making a claim later is fine, but if you are going to make it earlier, make it a full claim
4. expecting someone else to full claim when you haven't claimed makes me very wary
and then much further down the list.
5. I find WW townier than faust.
(and even that isn't very well explained, I will concede, but I am at work)
Because in every other sense faust's claim is seriously similar to your half-claim in JK++.
I don't really get why WW would spark this useless breadcrumb discussion when he could just as easily flavor claim.I don't agree that it's useless. If a few people see the breadcrumbing and have an idea first, then when he eventually does flavor claim we might have some towny people who can then point out the breadcrumbing and say "yes this is supported by the breadcrumbing" or "no this isn't".
WW's claiming second becomes much more viable if we have a few people who think they already know his flavour. Then he can't modify too much.
Eh. Once WW flavor claims, he can simply point out the breadcrumb and we can figure out whether it fits. A breadcrumb should be obvious once pointed out anyway. I don't know why we have people wasting their time searching for this when WW can simply point it out once we need it.
I want them to claim at the same time. How was that not clear?OK fine.
I just want WW to do cooperate.
Why, because I accidentally added the word 'do' so now my sentence looks stupid?I just want WW to do cooperate.
My heart breaks for you.
Why, because I accidentally added the word 'do' so now my sentence looks stupid?I just want WW to do cooperate.
My heart breaks for you.
How philosophical.Why, because I accidentally added the word 'do' so now my sentence looks stupid?I just want WW to do cooperate.
My heart breaks for you.
No, because you can't always get what you want. But, if you try some times, you might just find, you get what you need.
How philosophical.Why, because I accidentally added the word 'do' so now my sentence looks stupid?I just want WW to do cooperate.
My heart breaks for you.
No, because you can't always get what you want. But, if you try some times, you might just find, you get what you need.
I have a proposal: Faust claims first, then you have to claim (or get lynched).
Why, because I accidentally added the word 'do' so now my sentence looks stupid?I just want WW to do cooperate.
My heart breaks for you.
No, because you can't always get what you want. But, if you try some times, you might just find, you get what you need.
Haddock contributing to the game during all this.FTFY.
Carry on.
Haddock contributing to the game during all this.FTFY.
Carry on.
Seriously though, this comment of yours is neither relevant to the ongoing discussion, nor good scumhunting. 2/10, would not read again.
Well it seems WW has not changed his position, so let's go with a faust claim. I'd rather ask him nicely first, rather than put him to L-1.
I'd like to hear something from e, as well.
I'm not going to be threatened. You should vote for whom you feel is scummer. Hint: it's not me.
There is stiff competition on the scummiest scumster award.
yuma : Do you want to end this day with this unresolved ? We've got faust claiming PR and WW semi-claiming PR... how can we lynch anyone else before we deal with this ?
I'm not going to be threatened. You should vote for whom you feel is scummer. Hint: it's not me.
Actually you don't get to decide if you're being threatened or not, turns out that's how lynches work.
You don't want to claim, that's fine, I'm trying to give you a good reason to claim. If you decide not to claim at L-1 + intent to hammer, well then you're either scum or playing against your wincon. yuma like to rage against people who self-vote, this is the same thing.
Of course maybe the majority of town will prefer wagonning faust. So you get to wait and see that, but don't act all indignant about it. This is part of the game.
Vote: RR
I don't know who I'm voting for, but now I know it's not on Faust or WW.
This is fine. It makes a hammer less likely.Vote: RR
I don't know who I'm voting for, but now I know it's not on Faust or WW.
vote: RR
This is fine. It makes a hammer less likely.Vote: RR
I don't know who I'm voting for, but now I know it's not on Faust or WW.
vote: RR
Am I going to annoy Ashersky by requesting a vote count?This is fine. It makes a hammer less likely.Vote: RR
I don't know who I'm voting for, but now I know it's not on Faust or WW.
vote: RR
Unless I am a secret double voter...
I would have to vote again for you for it to count... hypothetically... which I haven't. But the threat is real!Am I going to annoy Ashersky by requesting a vote count?This is fine. It makes a hammer less likely.Vote: RR
I don't know who I'm voting for, but now I know it's not on Faust or WW.
vote: RR
Unless I am a secret double voter...
No.Unvote
We are not doing this.
This is fucking stupid.
RR, unvote yourself and then explain whether your dayvig is a serious notion.
No.Unvote
We are not doing this.
This is fucking stupid.
RR, unvote yourself and then explain whether your dayvig is a serious notion.
I wasn't serious.
But hey, now people are off the WW/Faust wagon.
I am worried that I might derphammer.No.Unvote
We are not doing this.
This is fucking stupid.
RR, unvote yourself and then explain whether your dayvig is a serious notion.
I wasn't serious.
But hey, now people are off the WW/Faust wagon.
Which is good why exactly?
Vote: WW
EgorK unvoted.
I'm pretty sure I unvoted ages ago.I know, that was not my finest moment. But I don't see any stress/pressure here, for me and Yuma at least. We have plenty of time, just relax. We can figure this out.
But right now yeah if faust isn't going to claim by nice asking I will vote: faust I guess.
RR, that was pretty silly. I know yuma like's to joke about dayvigs, but now is not really the time :P
He's at L-2.Is it smart to put somone at L-1 right now, whether Faust or WW?
I am figuratively voting for faust vote: egorkWhy?
I am figuratively voting for faust vote: egorkWhy?
If I don't get past #3 don't blame me.
post
I guess it's time. Teproc guessed well.
I am Black Widow, the Ninja Tracker.
You can guess what happened last night... I tracked WW, he targetted silver. I don't think that anything he says at this point will make me vote somewhere else.
The Ninja in my role has some interesting implications. Obvious guess is there is another Watching/Tracking role out there. But ashersky has included roles that "do nothing" before, so I'm not sure if it's just for the flavor.
I guess it's time. Teproc guessed well.
I am Black Widow, the Ninja Tracker.
You can guess what happened last night... I tracked WW, he targetted silver. I don't think that anything he says at this point will make me vote somewhere else.
The Ninja in my role has some interesting implications. Obvious guess is there is another Watching/Tracking role out there. But ashersky has included roles that "do nothing" before, so I'm not sure if it's just for the flavor.
Why did you feel like Witherweaver should need to claim first?
Why did you feel like Witherweaver should need to claim first?The answer to this is pretty obvious if faust's claim is true.
Color me stupid then : ) This is only my third game and I haven't been in a situation like this before.I don't think it hurts to explain.
Vote: Everyone
I ain't afraid of you!
I'd prefer not to lynch Hydrad today.
I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
Faust, had you hinted you target in the end of D1?
I am Daredevil, the Motion Detector
I can target a person each night and learn if they either took an action or were a target of an action (other than mine). I don't learn which one it was, or their target/source.
Last night I targetted Hydrad and got no result. I breadcrumbed this as well. (By that I mean, this is why I said I don't want to lynch Hydrad today. He's not cleared, but he didn't perform the NK.)
Doesn't this make Hydrad look scummy? Most of the roles are PRs, and Hydrad probably would have had to use his role. So if he didn't perform a night action, isn't it likely that he sat back and let his fellow mafia partner perform the night kill?
PPE
Unvote
Because we're superheroes, and a vanilla townie is already dead. I would say a large percent of us have PRs.Doesn't this make Hydrad look scummy? Most of the roles are PRs, and Hydrad probably would have had to use his role. So if he didn't perform a night action, isn't it likely that he sat back and let his fellow mafia partner perform the night kill?
PPE
Unvote
Where are you getting that from?
Why did you target me, Faust?
Then there is this post:I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
Well, we now know that it is very likely that scum has some sort of redirection. Witherweaver targets Hydrad, but faust says he targeted silverspawn. That says redirection to me. Why would scum be super in favor of yuma shooting (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg548848#msg548848), then bring up a role that they possess that would give yuma a reason to not shoot? It makes no sense.
Then there is this post:I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
Well, we now know that it is very likely that scum has some sort of redirection. Witherweaver targets Hydrad, but faust says he targeted silverspawn. That says redirection to me. Why would scum be super in favor of yuma shooting (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg548848#msg548848), then bring up a role that they possess that would give yuma a reason to not shoot? It makes no sense.
This argument is faulty. The reason to believe that scum has redirecting powers depends on the fact that WW seems like town. If you assume WW is scum, this situation can easily be explained without the need of redirecting roles.
Then there is this post:I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
Well, we now know that it is very likely that scum has some sort of redirection. Witherweaver targets Hydrad, but faust says he targeted silverspawn. That says redirection to me. Why would scum be super in favor of yuma shooting (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg548848#msg548848), then bring up a role that they possess that would give yuma a reason to not shoot? It makes no sense.
This argument is faulty. The reason to believe that scum has redirecting powers depends on the fact that WW seems like town. If you assume WW is scum, this situation can easily be explained without the need of redirecting roles.
Or if we assume you are scum. I was making those arguments under the assumption you both are town
In fact, the argument e is making makes me feel bad about him. He might think that we have "proven" scum to have redirection independently of WW's and my alignment because he already knows scum has redirecting powers.
I want to hear Ampharos' and Yuma's opinions on this situation, particularly what they think of Faust now. I am not as convinced by him as others seem to be.
A wise man (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13975.msg544601#msg544601)once told me to use Occam's razor in situations like this and Occam's razor is telling me that someone is lying, not that some third party just so happened to use redirection to make Faust's results go awry.
What type of redirection is there ? The only one I'm familiar with is Bus Driver.
If scum has a Bus Driver, what do they do N1 ? Their main fear has to be yuma shooting. So they bus drive one of their own with a townie they'd like to see dead. In this case, faust tracked that townie, and that townie targeted silverspawn ? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Make sense the other way around though, if WW is the townie, and faust saw what the bus driven scum did : kill silverspawn.
Huh, that's interesting. What are the other redirection roles typically ?
I want to hear Ampharos' and Yuma's opinions on this situation, particularly what they think of Faust now. I am not as convinced by him as others seem to be.
A wise man (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13975.msg544601#msg544601)once told me to use Occam's razor in situations like this and Occam's razor is telling me that someone is lying, not that some third party just so happened to use redirection to make Faust's results go awry.
In that case, why does Occam's Razor point to faust more than WW ?
What type of redirection is there ? The only one I'm familiar with is Bus Driver.
If scum has a Bus Driver, what do they do N1 ? Their main fear has to be yuma shooting. So they bus drive one of their own with a townie they'd like to see dead. In this case, faust tracked that townie, and that townie targeted silverspawn ? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Make sense the other way around though, if WW is the townie, and faust saw what the bus driven scum did : kill silverspawn.
Huh, that's interesting. What are the other redirection roles typically ?
FWIW, there is a simple kind of redirection role called "redirector"
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector
So it's possible that the scum team killed Silver and then redirected Faust onto the person who killed Silver, so that Faust would think that whoever he targeted was targeting Silver. Seems risky though. What if Faust was a vigilante? Although that's less likely when they already knew that Yuma is a random vigilante.
So yeah, it's possible. There are universes here where both of these people could be telling the truth.
There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.
Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.
There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.
Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.
WW's breadcrumbing is completely null. It makes his claim more believeable, but it does not make him more likely to be town. He could be a Mafia Motion Detector.
Flavor matters. Non-Heroes will receive adequate information to safely claim. That said, no flavor knowledge is required to play this game.
Speaking of which... WW, is there anything you're not telling us about the role ?
Just answer yes or no please.
There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.
Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.
WW's breadcrumbing is completely null. It makes his claim more believeable, but it does not make him more likely to be town. He could be a Mafia Motion Detector.
This is true.Flavor matters. Non-Heroes will receive adequate information to safely claim. That said, no flavor knowledge is required to play this game.
Mafia could very well have worked on flavor N0 and known what they would fakeclaim. Then opening up with breadcrumbs for a fakeclaim would be very beneficial to scum.
In fact, the argument e is making makes me feel bad about him. He might think that we have "proven" scum to have redirection independently of WW's and my alignment because he already knows scum has redirecting powers.
There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.
Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.
I do not agree...
And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.
I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
I thought about that too, and I don't think it's the case. The ability is presumably not targeted, so it shouldn't be able to be redirected.
Why would it not be targeted?
oh and the reason I was looking in my PM was that I think from another setup of answers ash gave me there isn't a "targeting" I think. I can ask again, but I am not sure ash will directly answer that question... I wouldn't if I were the mod.
WW's breadcrumbing is completely null. It makes his claim more believeable, but it does not make him more likely to be town. He could be a Mafia Motion Detector.
There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.
Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.
I do not agree...
And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.
LEt's formulate that better.
Ash, can a role with random targeting be redirected ?
WW's breadcrumbing is completely null. It makes his claim more believeable, but it does not make him more likely to be town. He could be a Mafia Motion Detector.
The trouble I have with this scenario is... why do I see him target silver, and only silver? Motion Detecting silver does not seem useful.
Unless he is scum AND his partners redirected me, which is possible I guess.
LEt's formulate that better.
Ash, can a role with random targeting be redirected ?
ash will only answer question issued via PM.
There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.
Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.
I do not agree...
And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.
Give a me a scenario where scum passes on the opportunity to redirect a vig on a townie they want to kill, which also protects them.
What type of redirection is there ? The only one I'm familiar with is Bus Driver.
If scum has a Bus Driver, what do they do N1 ? Their main fear has to be yuma shooting. So they bus drive one of their own with a townie they'd like to see dead. In this case, faust tracked that townie, and that townie targeted silverspawn ? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Make sense the other way around though, if WW is the townie, and faust saw what the bus driven scum did : kill silverspawn.
Huh, that's interesting. What are the other redirection roles typically ?
There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.
Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.
I do not agree...
And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.
Give a me a scenario where scum passes on the opportunity to redirect a vig on a townie they want to kill, which also protects them.
The case where the vig does not shoot, and the case where there is a high probability that the vig already targets town.
That doesn't hold up.
1) They do not know if the vig is going to shoot.
2) yuma's vig is random. It's more likely to hit town, yes, but if you're scum you're scared of being hit.
3) How is there a better use of their redirection elsewhere, since they presumably don't know anything about anyone else ? Like, why redirect you in this case, when they have no particular reason to think you're a PR, let alone which one.
The redirection could be done on the level of targets, not actors, so they couldn't use it on Yuma.
(Whatever the role name is, not "Redirector")
That doesn't hold up.
1) They do not know if the vig is going to shoot.
2) yuma's vig is random. It's more likely to hit town, yes, but if you're scum you're scared of being hit.
3) How is there a better use of their redirection elsewhere, since they presumably don't know anything about anyone else ? Like, why redirect you in this case, when they have no particular reason to think you're a PR, let alone which one.
Well, it seems you could already figure out I was a PR based on my D1 play, yes? Redirecting someone other than yuma is certainly not safe play. But some scum players like to live dangerously. The chance to cause confusion AND get a townie killed is a pretty good outcome.
The redirection could be done on the level of targets, not actors, so they couldn't use it on Yuma.
(Whatever the role name is, not "Redirector")
I believe this is why Teproc thinks Bus Driver is a good explanation.
However, is scum were to use a Bus Driver to protect themselves from yuma, the protection only ever decreases their chances to be killed if they Bus Drive yuma/scum player, yes? But arguing that the confusion we have is due to Bus Driving would imply that they Bus Drover WW/scum player...
However, is scum were to use a Bus Driver to protect themselves from yuma, the protection only ever decreases their chances to be killed if they Bus Drive yuma/scum player, yes? But arguing that the confusion we have is due to Bus Driving would imply that they Bus Drover WW/scum player...
Hah, you're right, that's what they do if they have a Bus Driver. Protect themselves by making yuma kill himself if he hits scum.
Less convincing, more possibility of them using it elsewhere... but doing WW/scum player makes no sense to me here.
WW's claim reads scummier than Faust's. It's just too darn convenient for a role as scum. I believe I was reading faust as playing differently, which he was, if he has this role. There is a very simple explanation for all this: WW is scum, and killed ss last night. He breadcrumbed early to protect himself from exactly this type of scenario.
Vote: WW
WW's claim reads scummier than Faust's. It's just too darn convenient for a role as scum. I believe I was reading faust as playing differently, which he was, if he has this role. There is a very simple explanation for all this: WW is scum, and killed ss last night. He breadcrumbed early to protect himself from exactly this type of scenario.
Vote: WW
This is what my head is telling me. My gut says WW is town, but all the scenarios in which he is seem so contrived.
50 bucks there's no redirection in this game. Knowing what I know about the roles, there probably along the lines of 5-8 VTs, and to me it is a long shot that with this type of set up, scum was given a re-director. Course, I've never played an Ash game before, so there could be a lot more than I'm expecting.
Something is off here.
WW's claim reads scummier than Faust's. It's just too darn convenient for a role as scum. I believe I was reading faust as playing differently, which he was, if he has this role. There is a very simple explanation for all this: WW is scum, and killed ss last night. He breadcrumbed early to protect himself from exactly this type of scenario.
Vote: WW
WW, why did you target Hydrad ?
WW, why did you target Hydrad ?He'd probably be one of the more likely people to perform a kill on the scum team, too, with getting little attention.
Huh, didn't know Deflector. That goes back to my initial Bus Driver scenario since it's not reciprocal.
This being a normal game, I have my doubts about Nexus, though... there was one in MU, an ash-modded normal game, I think.
Interesting how WW target (Hydrad) got silent lately. Need to think about itLately?
And again I feel like I should throw in words like "invented" and "modified" as we have already seen some of that...
We shouldn't rely on that but should take it into consideration that we may not know of a possible explanation because there has never been one like that before, so ultimately I need to go back to my reads of how the scenario played out, reactions, etc and that leads me to wanting to kynch elsewhere and see how the two players and their roles play out over a longer sample size with hopefully more information coming in from other areas...
And again I feel like I should throw in words like "invented" and "modified" as we have already seen some of that...
We shouldn't rely on that but should take it into consideration that we may not know of a possible explanation because there has never been one like that before, so ultimately I need to go back to my reads of how the scenario played out, reactions, etc and that leads me to wanting to kynch elsewhere and see how the two players and their roles play out over a longer sample size with hopefully more information coming in from other areas...
I'm coming around to this way of thinking as well. I don't like it though.
Let's try
Vote: e
I'm torn between faust and e here.
But e has seemed townier lately.
I don't want to vote faust without counting up votes first.
@yuma : I disagree so much, both on e in particular and in principle. Because I don't think e has been all that great, he has simply agreed with you a lot. That's not alignment-indicative. The equivalent for me is Haddock, and that makes me suspect him more rather than less.
I think I'll vote: Egork
What's the case on me?
Anyway, if both faust and WW are telling truth, I do not see how Hydrad is town. Vote: Hydrad
What's the case on me?
Anyway, if both faust and WW are telling truth, I do not see how Hydrad is town. Vote: Hydrad
The case on you is PoE and general scumminess (I'll dig up my D1 case at some point)...
I don't follow your Hydrad logic.
What's the case on me?
Anyway, if both faust and WW are telling truth, I do not see how Hydrad is town. Vote: Hydrad
The case on you is PoE and general scumminess (I'll dig up my D1 case at some point)...
I don't follow your Hydrad logic.
I do not see any town redirecting role, and scum redirection would target scum as one of targets, otherwise it does not make sense
I'm torn between faust and e here.
But e has seemed townier lately.
I don't want to vote faust without counting up votes first.
WW's action cannot have been redirected to silverspawn or else WW would have seen the kill. (Unless that was Ninja also. Which would be hilarious.)
I found you mildly scummy before. And now with the claims I find WW's slightly more believable.
The only reason I'm torn is the redirect possibilities. I will keep thinking.
"Cop me! (I'm a godfather!)".I found you mildly scummy before. And now with the claims I find WW's slightly more believable.
The only reason I'm torn is the redirect possibilities. I will keep thinking.
Why would scum!me make that claim?
This is very complicated.
I will let Teproc, Faust and WW figure this out, unless someone needs me for something.
"Cop me! (I'm a godfather!)".I found you mildly scummy before. And now with the claims I find WW's slightly more believable.
The only reason I'm torn is the redirect possibilities. I will keep thinking.
Why would scum!me make that claim?
I'm aware that's not a fair comparison.
But there could be all kinds of reasons.
I'm probably more inclined to vote elsewhere though.
My reads are so bad, but I still think Amaphoros.This is very complicated.
I will let Teproc, Faust and WW figure this out, unless someone needs me for something.
I need you to tell me who you think is scum that is not named faust or WW
There are all kinds of reasons, yet you conveniently fail to name any of them...Huh?
This is very complicated.
I will let Teproc, Faust and WW figure this out, unless someone needs me for something.
Okay, no. I don't like where this is going, at all.Why?
Okay, no. I don't like where this is going, at all.
Vote: Witherweaver
Okay, no. I don't like where this is going, at all.Why?
There's a vote count on the previous page, I'm sure you can figure it out.Hey, read your PPEs! I got this!
Okay, no. I don't like where this is going, at all.Why?
I have basically a guilty result on WW. He has no good explanation for it. This day is supposed to be a standoff between me and him. I saw the vote count - there is only one person voting for either of us. One person! Suppose for a moment that WW and I are both town. In what possible universe does scum simply let go of this chance to get a mislynch in? That's right. WW is scum and we are doing exactly what he wants us to do.
Something that hasn't been said yet.
I don't think there's any scum team including WW in which WW performs the kill here. He's too obvious a choice for tracking roles to look at. The only candidate (excluding Teproc and faust because reasons) is Ampharos. There I can see WW doing the NK rather than Amph - who I think is town. In every other pairing I can think of, scum would have had someone less obvious to do the NK.
If that's true then there has to be some redirection here, in which case we have nothing.
post
Are you the new yuma?
I guess it's time. Teproc guessed well.
I am Black Widow, the Ninja Tracker.
You can guess what happened last night... I tracked WW, he targetted silver. I don't think that anything he says at this point will make me vote somewhere else.
The Ninja in my role has some interesting implications. Obvious guess is there is another Watching/Tracking role out there. But ashersky has included roles that "do nothing" before, so I'm not sure if it's just for the flavor.
I am Daredevil, the Motion Detector
I can target a person each night and learn if they either took an action or were a target of an action (other than mine). I don't learn which one it was, or their target/source.
Last night I targetted Hydrad and got no result. I breadcrumbed this as well. (By that I mean, this is why I said I don't want to lynch Hydrad today. He's not cleared, but he didn't perform the NK.)
I have trouble seeing Faust lying here.
I guess if anyone targeted Hydrad, or if Hydrad took an action, that would be interesting to know, though it would mean a soft claim
I guess we should have Hydrad confirm he didn't take an action last night at some point too.
replace "Silver" with "silver"
WW, why did you target Hydrad ?
Originally I submitted Yuma, the thought being in that he could potentially be caught in a lie, or possibly half verify his claim. (Say, he claimed to use his power but there was only one kill, and not from him.) I decided to change it, though. My main thought on Hydrad was that he was the kind of guy to claim VT as scum in a game like this. He was also not very present yesterday and I had no indication towards town or scum. He'd probably be one of the more likely people to perform a kill on the scum team, too, with getting little attention.
I also expected Yuma to shoot, and I figured the kill flavor would verify him, so my result wouldn't mean a lot.
OK I think I'll go with
Vote: WW
Redirecting from me to ss. doesn't really make sense at all for scum. I don't really see why they would do that.
The only way I see it working is if like scum wanted to kill ss but had a busdriver ability and swapped me with silver? I don't really see many other options.
also no I did not take any actions.
Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad? Because that's absurd.
OK I think I'll go with
Vote: WW
Redirecting from me to ss. doesn't really make sense at all for scum. I don't really see why they would do that.
The only way I see it working is if like scum wanted to kill ss but had a busdriver ability and swapped me with silver? I don't really see many other options.
also no I did not take any actions.
Why do you think I'm scum? What's your explanation here?
Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad? Because that's absurd.
I think the breadcrumbing is pretty solid. I don't see scum!WW breadcrumbing like that, it leaves yoy too inflexible if you want to fakeclaim.
I think the breadcrumbing is pretty solid. I don't see scum!WW breadcrumbing like that, it leaves yoy too inflexible if you want to fakeclaim.
And I think if we hit town the first time, we absolutely should lynch the other one tomorrow...... shouldn't they have been pushing for the double mislynch? The fact that no one has pushed for that makes me suspicious and I think it is strong evidence that one or the other of them is scum.
Ha! Nice catch. Oh boy, Iguanaiguana is starting to look not so good anymore...And I think if we hit town the first time, we absolutely should lynch the other one tomorrow...... shouldn't they have been pushing for the double mislynch? The fact that no one has pushed for that makes me suspicious and I think it is strong evidence that one or the other of them is scum.
Says pushing for a double mislynch is something scum would do. Pushes for a double mislynch. Plus it is just a totally bad idea
Lovely. We spend over 5 pages talking about the all the possibilities of redirection, and now I am scummy for pointing out how unlikely it is that any of that actually happened.
Lovely. We spend over 5 pages talking about the all the possibilities of redirection, and now I am scummy for pointing out how unlikely it is that any of that actually happened.
I didn't think that post was scummy, but blatantly misrepresenting why other people find you scummy definitely is.
And I think if we hit town the first time, we absolutely should lynch the other one tomorrow...... shouldn't they have been pushing for the double mislynch? The fact that no one has pushed for that makes me suspicious and I think it is strong evidence that one or the other of them is scum.
Says pushing for a double mislynch is something scum would do. Pushes for a double mislynch. Plus it is just a totally bad idea
WW/Faust/RR scum team.
Fixed.WW/Faust/RR/Yuma/Ashersky scum team.
Fixed that for you
Fixed.WW/Faust/RR/Yuma/Ashersky scum team.
Fixed that for you
Fixed.WW/Faust/RR/Yuma/Ashersky scum team.
Fixed that for you
That's a lot of scum
For the two of us, though, it's especially good that the mod is scum.Fixed.WW/Faust/RR/Yuma/Ashersky scum team.
Fixed that for you
That's a lot of scum
It's especially bad when the mod is scum.
If you want to lynch WW/Faust then pick the scummiest and vote for one. Depending on how that players flips I will have a read on you tomorrow.
And maybe the correct course of action will be to lynch the other, but to say that we "absolutely" must lynch the other is a scummy statement. Because is absolves you from any responsibility tomorrow, and if it is another mislynch, will.... as you say put town in an extraordinary behind position where many players will lack full responsibility because the second lynch was a necessity because of the second.
I feel like that argument is going to come from scum. I felt that faust was a bit pre-mature in his analysis that these opinions weren't coming forward (only 24 hours since claims + weekend isn't enough time to see how people are going to react after analyzing the situation)
Does that mean they kill one tonight? Absolutely not. But maybe. I mean, if they are both still alive by Day 4, then either scum is playing a huge gambit with town PRs or at least one of them is scum. And by that point we will have more results. More stuff to go on. Lynching faust or WW today is entirely a gut vote on which you think is scummier. Which there is nothing wrong with voting your gut. I do it all the time. But there is no hard evidence (yet) that either one is scum.
So basically I am saying leave them alone, and let their roles play out. I will be waiting eagerly to hear their results from N2
So for now, my lynch pool is {Haddock, Hydrad, Ampharos, Teproc, EgorK, RR}
You know what yellow Pokèmon guy? Let's talk about how you may be scum.
You're the wild card. We don't know how you behave as scum. Wouldn't it be the safe thing to lynch you because we don't know how you behave as scum?
(I'm playing devil's advocate)
okay, vote: AmpharosI did I thing?
great job RR
What was his slip?
What was it that he said?
No, Awaclus, what was his scum tell? :-\
Vote: Yellow Pokèmon Guy
Just checking in.
I'm no longer so sure about Yellow Pokèmon Guy.
Yep Yuma, I regretted that as soon as I sent it. It portrays me in a very bad light. The posts you made recently just slipped my mind.
And I'm voting for no one. Why? I don't have any scum reads. It might be a good idea to vote to put pressure somewhere, but that doesn't feel great right now.
How did I make it into 2.7's lynch pool?
My reads are so bad, but I still think Amaphoros.This is very complicated.
I will let Teproc, Faust and WW figure this out, unless someone needs me for something.
I need you to tell me who you think is scum that is not named faust or WW
So how are we buddying?My reads are so bad, but I still think Amaphoros.This is very complicated.
I will let Teproc, Faust and WW figure this out, unless someone needs me for something.
I need you to tell me who you think is scum that is not named faust or WW
Yep. Very much so
Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad? Because that's absurd.
Yes, I don't believe that.
So everything I am getting is that most people think either one of {faust, WW} is scum. Now, I am of the opinion that neither of them are scum and that something messed with results. This is my attempt to convince you that we should not lynch either faust or WW
Look at the roles they claimed. Tracker and Tracker/Voyeur. Pretty great investigative roles. Scum cannot afford to let them live forever if they are both town. In fact, scum can't let them live forever if even one of them is town. Having a town tracker that has a cumulative 3-4 days of results can be deadly to scum. Same thing for WW's role. Scum have to make a decision about them.
Does that mean they kill one tonight? Absolutely not. But maybe. I mean, if they are both still alive by Day 4, then either scum is playing a huge gambit with town PRs or at least one of them is scum. And by that point we will have more results. More stuff to go on. Lynching faust or WW today is entirely a gut vote on which you think is scummier. Which there is nothing wrong with voting your gut. I do it all the time. But there is no hard evidence (yet) that either one is scum.
Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad? Because that's absurd.
Yes, I don't believe that.
Why would you not believe it?
Thoughts on mass claim?
[...]
I am sure some will automatically disagree with me (Teproc)
What are you hoping to achieve with a mass claim?
Correctomundo ! Though I do not care for the implications of that "automatically". I have nothing against massclaims, some of my best friends are massclaims ! And I'm not disagreeing with you just because it's you either.
In fact I disagree with pretty much every single point you raised here.
- Yes, day 1 was long. That's not a bad thing. Remember GOP Mafia ? Rethorical of course, you won that game because town wasted their day 1 on a dumb quicklynch (well, not just that obviously but still). Yes, long days make rereads marginally more difficult but they also make them more fruitful. Examples of games with long day 1s : ASoIaF, Dynasty Warriors II : in both cases reread helped pin mafia down (DWII being the most important example here). So I'm a bit sick of everyone complaining about it. Yes, you'll have to work a little. Deal with it.
- However, theory talk is, while necessary, mostly a bad thing. This is not necessary because a massclaim serves very little purpose here, so let's get past it and go back to finding scum.
- If you're going to massclaim, what are you trying to achieve ? Out scum is the obvious example right ? This being a closed setup, that's not going to happen. If two people claim PRs, you're going to look at that and say "well, that's plausible enough..." and bravo, we've outed PRs to no gain. This, in fact, is exactly what happened with WW and faust. We've potentially outed two town PRs to very little avail.
- If any PR had any information that could help resolve the WW/faust thing, they would probably have claimed. Massclaim is not going to make that any clearer.
What are you hoping to achieve with a mass claim?
Not sure. Depends on what we learn.
So I guess what I hope to gain is some sort of knowledge that will allow us to make a better informed decision on who to lynch today.
If there is a surplus of PRs claiming then I would lean toward lynching between WW/faust.
If there isn't a surplus of PRs claiming then I would lean toward not lynching them and lynching elsewhere (probably VT pool, but can't be sure)
It would also help me learn whether or not I want to shoot tonight, to an extent.
I think there is also potential for more coordination in determining whether the PR claims are true or not. There is the NK to consider and we would need to do that (and potential for other blocking or manipulative roles) but there may be ways to get around or through that. I don't know what they are as I don't know the resources we have.
Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad? Because that's absurd.
Yes, I don't believe that.
Why would you not believe it?
Because I have an investigative result that says otherwise.
WW "breadcrumbed" this day 1 thing so super vaguely so he could use it for scenarios like this. I was initially read faust as playing different, thinking it was scum, but I think I was reading him as what he claims. WW's claim is too perfect for this situation, and this breadcrumb is too watery and looks like scum bradcrumbing just in case.
I could also go for a ampharos lynch, despite previous town read. I feel like I have lots of options but none of them good.... Egork, teproc, ampharos, RR, iguana. All lunches I could go for...
But ww.... Not a 2.7 lynch.
Buddying e is scum e.
Vote: e
Haddock's last post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg551731#msg551731)
What's wrong with it?Haddock's last post (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg551731#msg551731)
should actually be post before last. 2 posts ago
Yuma, why don't you like the e lynch?
well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
OK I think I'll go with
Vote: WW
Redirecting from me to ss. doesn't really make sense at all for scum. I don't really see why they would do that.
The only way I see it working is if like scum wanted to kill ss but had a busdriver ability and swapped me with silver? I don't really see many other options.
Coming from anyone else that would be crazy scummy. But its coming from RR. I could see him emulating his usual nonsense, I guess, but then why hasnt he done any omgusing yet? He would have learnt from last game that to emulate effectively he needs to omgus a bit.I'm done OMGUSing. I said that in HP, and that was the truth.
PPE. Yeah I could get behind that. A scum!Hydrad might also support some redirection nonsense.
Pro tip : if you don't want yuma to suspect you : don't disagree with him, and never do anything else than theory talk.
Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad? Because that's absurd.
Yes, I don't believe that.
Why would you not believe it?
Because I have an investigative result that says otherwise.
But ... why would I breadcrumb Hydrad immediately into Day 2? You honestly think I predicted this situation?
The other likely option *gasp* is that faust is scum. I mean, if this is the case then yeah, bold fake claim. But WW's story just rings really true to me. And weakened PRs seem like a thing. I mean, active tree-stump was a role. I could totally see town having more PRs, but weakened. Regular tracker is obviously clearly not ruled out, but this is an ashersky game and he is very creative with roles. Look at Yuma's power. It is a modified vigilante to make it weaker than a regular vigilante.
"Ninja Tracker" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg551338#msg551338)is actually an enhanced role rather than a weakened role. Sure, treestump was enhanced, but seriously. Its a treestump. It has to be enhanced to be made a real role right from the start in a serious game. I mean, flavor totally fits ninja tracker, but does the role fit what we have seen in this game so far? Not really.
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
So, reread EgorK. Meh. I don't know, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town, but he's not particularly scummy here. That makes him an ok lynch in his context, but I definitely like Hydrad better.
vote: Hydrad
Will take another look at e and probably Haddock tomorrow, maybe.
I think it is extremely likely that scum would have used redirection power against you. You can be very dangerous for scum, especially if you have a PR. By rerouting whatever ability that you may or may not have they are sure to negate any influence you have.
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.
To buy time, out possible PR or drive mislynch
So, reread EgorK. Meh. I don't know, he hasn't given me any reason to think he's town, but he's not particularly scummy here. That makes him an ok lynch in his context, but I definitely like Hydrad better.
vote: Hydrad
Will take another look at e and probably Haddock tomorrow, maybe.
Uh. So you believe WW is town and you believe that Hydrad is a good lynch? How do these two go together?
I mean... Hydrad is far and away better than lynching 2.7. But the reasons Teproc gives seem like he went searching for reasons to find hydrad scummy (and forced himself to find some) rather than looking to see if anything hydrad did was scummy.
I mean... Hydrad is far and away better than lynching 2.7. But the reasons Teproc gives seem like he went searching for reasons to find hydrad scummy (and forced himself to find some) rather than looking to see if anything hydrad did was scummy.
You do realize I had the exact same arguments on day 1 and you didn't bat an eye ? Or maybe you did and I don't remember it.
I mean... Hydrad is far and away better than lynching 2.7. But the reasons Teproc gives seem like he went searching for reasons to find hydrad scummy (and forced himself to find some) rather than looking to see if anything hydrad did was scummy.
You do realize I had the exact same arguments on day 1 and you didn't bat an eye ? Or maybe you did and I don't remember it.
I don't. Not sure why that is relevant though. If you did something scummy earlier in the game, you are still scummy today for doing the same thing?
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.
To buy time, out possible PR or drive mislynch
Any way, the claim gets me lynched by D3 the latest... how is that worth it?
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.
To buy time, out possible PR or drive mislynch
Any way, the claim gets me lynched by D3 the latest... how is that worth it?
Considering you were at L-2 and likely lynch candidate? Totally. I mean, even if we lynch you today scum|you achieved town PR outing
I mean... Hydrad is far and away better than lynching 2.7. But the reasons Teproc gives seem like he went searching for reasons to find hydrad scummy (and forced himself to find some) rather than looking to see if anything hydrad did was scummy.
You do realize I had the exact same arguments on day 1 and you didn't bat an eye ? Or maybe you did and I don't remember it.
I don't. Not sure why that is relevant though. If you did something scummy earlier in the game, you are still scummy today for doing the same thing?
You're saying I was looking for reasons to find Hydrad scummy. There's a scum narrative for that now, because I'd be trying to distract from the main wagons right ? That argument makes a lot less sense if I had those same arguments earlier. You might not like my read/agree with it, but there's nothing fake about it.
It still works because the narrative earlier is the same as today, desire to drive a mislynch if you are scum and hydrad is town. The context of today doesn't really matter as much.Meh. I can sorta see Teproc as scum, but for me, scum!Teproc is conditional on scum!faust. So faust would be a better first lynch.
I think you are kinda likely to be scum. That by definition means your read is fake. If you aren't well then I disagree with it and it isn't fake. But I don't know which one that is.
It still works because the narrative earlier is the same as today, desire to drive a mislynch if you are scum and hydrad is town. The context of today doesn't really matter as much.Meh. I can sorta see Teproc as scum, but for me, scum!Teproc is conditional on scum!faust. So faust would be a better first lynch.
I think you are kinda likely to be scum. That by definition means your read is fake. If you aren't well then I disagree with it and it isn't fake. But I don't know which one that is.
Also you, though, yuma. You've gone without scrutiny since the WW and faust claims, and I don't think that's right. You're not obv!town to me at all.
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.
To buy time, out possible PR or drive mislynch
Any way, the claim gets me lynched by D3 the latest... how is that worth it?
Considering you were at L-2 and likely lynch candidate? Totally. I mean, even if we lynch you today scum|you achieved town PR outing
In that scenario. Scum faust just has to claim that he is a tracker and then have a fake absent result on someone (SS for example, or me). He doesn't have to fake a scummy result. That just isn't necessary for his survival--which is what scum wants.
If faust claimed tracker and to have tracked me or ss... I think most people would have backed off immediately.
So this argument doesnt' work and I don't understand why people are voting for faust.... He could be lying, but time will certainly tell that a lot better than what we have now.
It's as I said before. I think the interaction between Teproc and faust throughout today has been perfect scumpartner interaction. In every other sense I see Teproc as towny. So if faust is scum, maybe Teproc is his partner. But if faust is town, probably Teproc is too.Meh. I can sorta see Teproc as scum, but for me, scum!Teproc is conditional on scum!faust. So faust would be a better first lynch.
How is that?
Nailed it.Also you, though, yuma. You've gone without scrutiny since the WW and faust claims, and I don't think that's right. You're not obv!town to me at all.
Keeping your mislynch options open? Nice....
vote: Egork
wants to lynch a claim tracker. Refuses to listen to reasons why claimed tracker is what he is.
vote: Egork
wants to lynch a claim tracker. Refuses to listen to reasons why claimed tracker is what he is.
along with the earlier posts of "yuma always finds me scummy" meta manipulation stuff...
PPE : Haddock, thinking about scumteams is not a good way to scumhunt. I know it seems like it is, but it's putting way too much trust in your reads to draw conclusions from one player's alignment to an other. Also in this case you'd probably want to lynch me first just because, you know, with faust it's a Tracker you're mislynching if you're wrong.My point stands, though. I'm saying I don't want to lynch you, because I find you towny.
vote: Egork
wants to lynch a claim tracker. Refuses to listen to reasons why claimed tracker is what he is.
Any answer on the merits of what I say?
along with the earlier posts of "yuma always finds me scummy" meta manipulation stuff...
Can you provide example to the opposite?
vote: Egork
wants to lynch a claim tracker. Refuses to listen to reasons why claimed tracker is what he is.
To be fair, the examples you gave of what scum!faust would have claimed, are indeednot what he would have done (tracking silver is too easy, tracking you amkes little sense because of the flavor kill thing). I agree with the general reasoning (that faust would not have claimed a guilty result), but EgorK is right to object to those specific examples.
It's because days are too long, and there's too much time for people to talk you off your soapbox/wagon/place of elevation.
I like the egor wagon. 4 people on it, all of whom I think are on the town side of null.
Dude. People were finding you scummy long before we disagreed with you about faust.I like the egor wagon. 4 people on it, all of whom I think are on the town side of null.
I don't like it. And I am town. So it is bad. And any reasoning behind it is bad. Should I vote everything on the wagon? And if not, why are people voting for me even if they disagree? Argue with me, prove me wrong, I am more then sensible to reason. But this "ah, I disagree, so he is scummy, but I won't argue with him" is what makes this game so frustrating
I like the egor wagon. 4 people on it, all of whom I think are on the town side of null.
I don't like it. And I am town. So it is bad. And any reasoning behind it is bad. Should I vote everything on the wagon? And if not, why are people voting for me even if they disagree? Argue with me, prove me wrong, I am more then sensible to reason. But this "ah, I disagree, so he is scummy, but I won't argue with him" is what makes this game so frustrating
Dude. People were finding you scummy long before we disagreed with you about faust.
Teproc, do you say that you find everyone else towny?
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.
To buy time, out possible PR or drive mislynch
Any way, the claim gets me lynched by D3 the latest... how is that worth it?
Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad? Because that's absurd.
Yes, I don't believe that.
Why would you not believe it?
Because I have an investigative result that says otherwise.
But ... why would I breadcrumb Hydrad immediately into Day 2? You honestly think I predicted this situation?
Others have said this. It is not a clear breadcrumb. You may have had other reasons to post it. Or maybe you decided to stick to this story early.
By the way, why did you claim anyway? You were reluctant at first and your claim does not give us a whole lot. You could simply have said "I did not target silver"
Actually:
vote: Hydrad for today.
I'm still on the Egor wagon in spirit, but I don't like that Hydrad has lurked so much, had really weak contributions and gotten away with it.
I will reread him at some point, but voting for him until I've done so.
I don't understand the case on Haddock.
Yeah, RR isn't happening.Yay!
vote: haddock
I don't understand the case on Haddock.
I can't do a hood recap from my phone, but there are little things here and there.
Like this last vote on hydrad. A pressure vote to get him to post more. Am easy vote, one that doesn't take too much effort and you won't really get in trouble for. A nice scum vote
That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.Get used to it. You don't dictate how people behave with their votes. I've seen other people do this with their votes and it's a useful tool.
That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.Get used to it. You don't dictate how people behave with their votes. I've seen other people do this with their votes and it's a useful tool.
Vote accountability only becomes a thing when a lynch has happened. If Egor gets lynched and I haven't moved back to him, I promise you right now I will not be trying to get any kind of credit for it.
That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.Get used to it. You don't dictate how people behave with their votes. I've seen other people do this with their votes and it's a useful tool.
Vote accountability only becomes a thing when a lynch has happened. If Egor gets lynched and I haven't moved back to him, I promise you right now I will not be trying to get any kind of credit for it.
I get to say I think it's anti-town...OK, so put it another way. I want pressure to be on both of them. Noone is currently voting Hydrad, it may as well be me.
Setting votes as a remainder is not a thing, and I'm very curious who else has done it so I can berate them as well.
I could probably agree that the reminder thing was a bit stupid, and a dumb thing to say. I wasn't saying that anyone had done THAT. But I've definitely seen people say they want to vote someone but temporarily vote elsewhere to pressure lurkers. Yuma did it this game I seem to remember.
So in fact I was doing the complete opposite of you! Voting for my read and using my voice to pressure. That is townie.FINE.
Had not yet time to reread, but:
- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs
- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.
So Vote: faust
I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.
To buy time, out possible PR or drive mislynch
Any way, the claim gets me lynched by D3 the latest... how is that worth it?
Considering you were at L-2 and likely lynch candidate? Totally. I mean, even if we lynch you today scum|you achieved town PR outing
Wait, sorry, I thought you were saying that I was solely to blame for the complete dissolution of the Egor wagon. I take issue with that. But I now see that wasn't what you said.Wait, yes it was! >:(
One thing I didn't really give full consideration to is that now we can ask Faust/WW for their results on future days and look for inconsistencies or possible lies. So even if one is likely to be lying, we don't have to decide that today. We can look for other scum. e and Yuma brought these points up after I pushed for us to lynch one of them yesterday. It makes sense.
Now I am flip flopping again and I just feel stupid for it. Oh well.
Vote: EgorK
PPE: Yuma looks like he's losing it... blah, I just don't know what to think of this game anymore ><
It still works because the narrative earlier is the same as today, desire to drive a mislynch if you are scum and hydrad is town. The context of today doesn't really matter as much.Meh. I can sorta see Teproc as scum, but for me, scum!Teproc is conditional on scum!faust. So faust would be a better first lynch.
I think you are kinda likely to be scum. That by definition means your read is fake. If you aren't well then I disagree with it and it isn't fake. But I don't know which one that is.
I need to reread Hydrad - tonight, maybe.
Also you, though, yuma. You've gone without scrutiny since the WW and faust claims, and I don't think that's right. You're not obv!town to me at all.
I have trouble believing this since you're trying to lynch me. Tomorrow are you going to submit to getting lynched? I somehow doubt it.
What? No. There's just absolutely no way that you can infer that from what I said.Meh. I can sorta see Teproc as scum, but for me, scum!Teproc is conditional on scum!faust. So faust would be a better first lynch.
I need to reread Hydrad - tonight, maybe.
Also you, though, yuma. You've gone without scrutiny since the WW and faust claims, and I don't think that's right. You're not obv!town to me at all.
I take it every other player who went without scrutiny today is obv!town to you?
I was making a sarcastic remark about how it is strange that you picked yuma out of several people who have not gotten scrutiny.What? No. There's just absolutely no way that you can infer that from what I said.Meh. I can sorta see Teproc as scum, but for me, scum!Teproc is conditional on scum!faust. So faust would be a better first lynch.
I need to reread Hydrad - tonight, maybe.
Also you, though, yuma. You've gone without scrutiny since the WW and faust claims, and I don't think that's right. You're not obv!town to me at all.
I take it every other player who went without scrutiny today is obv!town to you?
I was making a sarcastic remark about how it is strange that you picked yuma out of several people who have not gotten scrutiny.Hilarious.
That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.Get used to it. You don't dictate how people behave with their votes. I've seen other people do this with their votes and it's a useful tool.
Vote accountability only becomes a thing when a lynch has happened. If Egor gets lynched and I haven't moved back to him, I promise you right now I will not be trying to get any kind of credit for it.
I get to say I think it's anti-town...OK, so put it another way. I want pressure to be on both of them. Noone is currently voting Hydrad, it may as well be me.
Setting votes as a remainder is not a thing, and I'm very curious who else has done it so I can berate them as well.
I was making a sarcastic remark about how it is strange that you picked yuma out of several people who have not gotten scrutiny.Hilarious.
Let me make what I said there a bit clearer, not that I thought it needed any explanation.
A lot of people seem to be treating yuma as obv!town. I don't agree with this.
Yuma has not gone under the microscope the way he perhaps should have after his derphammer.
PPE. Well, I can't argue with gut. I'm being forced to rely on gut a lot this game, it's seriously confusing. I'm town though.
I have trouble believing this since you're trying to lynch me. Tomorrow are you going to submit to getting lynched? I somehow doubt it.
Well, I am hopeful that you will flip scum, so then there's no reason to lynch me tormorrow. If you flip town, well yes I am going to fight my lynch, but I am somewhat doubtful about the chances of success there.
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
umad? ;)
Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.
Why is that?
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
umad? ;)
No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.
Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.
Why is that?
His reaction is that he got the point and wants to move on because
a) it's not nice having people berate you (alignment-neutral)
b) it's distracting from the actual game
I think scum would either go "you're not the boss of me" and stay on Hydrad, or unvote or log off. I don't think they'd cede to the pressure and change their vote back, because they don't want to appear to malleable, as it puts the falseness of their reads in sharp focus.
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
umad? ;)
No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.
I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle. I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode. "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)
::)Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
umad? ;)
No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.
I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle. I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode. "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)
So that's a "yes" then.
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
umad? ;)
No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.
I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle. I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode. "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)
No need to scream.Guilty. :-[
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
umad? ;)
No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.
I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle. I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode. "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)
Ok, this is ridiculous. You suspected Faust the entire game. He and WW both make conflicting claims and now you're positive that it's..... WW who is scum? I know, I know. You gave 'reasons.' But I have a question for you
HOW? HOW ARE YOU SO SURE?
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
Can we please stop making this argument? It's just straightup bad.
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
Can we please stop making this argument? It's just straightup bad.
Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument. You easily could have done exactly what I propose.
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
Can we please stop making this argument? It's just straightup bad.
Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument. You easily could have done exactly what I propose.
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
Can we please stop making this argument? It's just straightup bad.
Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument. You easily could have done exactly what I propose.
To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
Can we please stop making this argument? It's just straightup bad.
Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument. You easily could have done exactly what I propose.
To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?
It's the "WW looked at his past posts and made up a breadcrumb" argument... I think...
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
Can we please stop making this argument? It's just straightup bad.
Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument. You easily could have done exactly what I propose.
To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?
WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.
Can we please stop making this argument? It's just straightup bad.
Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument. You easily could have done exactly what I propose.
To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?
It's the "WW looked at his past posts and made up a breadcrumb" argument... I think...
But why the fuck did I make the post in the first place?
You don't make "hey let me throw this post out there in case I need to make up a fake story later and pretend it's a breadcrumb" posts. As scum, you are afraid of your posts falling under scrutiny. You don't just post a bunch of shit and hope that one of them a mgically falls perfectly into place later.
This argument *could* have some merit if you think scum planned to push a massclaim today, so I already figured out my fakeclaim last night and planned to do it all along. Or if Faust and I are partners in some dumb gambit.
But the argument as it is is just terrible.
Well I obviously don't want to announce that I have a PR; I think that statement is exactly what it should be as a breadcrumb.
Well I obviously don't want to announce that I have a PR; I think that statement is exactly what it should be as a breadcrumb.
I understand that. All I am saying is that I can't look at it say "WW undeniably targeted Hydrad. He is innocent."
A pass for hydrad, that is
I'd prefer not to lynch Hydrad today.
Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.
Why is that?
His reaction is that he got the point and wants to move on because
a) it's not nice having people berate you (alignment-neutral)
b) it's distracting from the actual game
I think scum would either go "you're not the boss of me" and stay on Hydrad, or unvote or log off. I don't think they'd cede to the pressure and change their vote back, because they don't want to appear to malleable, as it puts the falseness of their reads in sharp focus.
The Rules:
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
One thing I didn't really give full consideration to is that now we can ask Faust/WW for their results on future days and look for inconsistencies or possible lies. So even if one is likely to be lying, we don't have to decide that today. We can look for other scum. e and Yuma brought these points up after I pushed for us to lynch one of them yesterday. It makes sense.
FWIW, this is the first time it's been this hard to get wagons going, that I can remember. This is not a result of long days, because we've had plenty of long days before on f.ds without this problem.
So in fact I was doing the complete opposite of you! Voting for my read and using my voice to pressure. That is townie.FINE.
vote: Egor
Hydrad, you need to start contributing to the game!!!
Get out here and say something useful!
That better?
PPE. No, no I didn't. Other people went berserk over a completely innocent change of vote.
Haddock feels scummy to me on a gut level. In the recent fight, he comes off a bit like Ichimaru, and I always found him scummy, so who knows. Would have to reread for more detailed thoughts.
We should really lynch WW though. Carthage has to be destroyed.
A pass for hydrad, that is
It's a mitigating factor, not enough to be a pass for me. I would guess that about 1 of the three scum (assuming a single team) did nothing. Hydrad could also be a ninja.
gah WW's last few posts are making me start to think hes towny though.
gah WW's last few posts are making me start to think hes towny though.
which specifically? numbers work if if quoting is hard. the last few might not be the same for you in your review as they are for us who are caught up.
So for now, my lynch pool is {Haddock, Hydrad, Ampharos, Teproc, EgorK, RR}
So for now, my lynch pool is {Haddock, Hydrad, Ampharos, Teproc, EgorK, RR}Hydrad is behaving like hydrad. Which I think is townie.
So for now, my lynch pool is {Haddock, Hydrad, Ampharos, Teproc, EgorK, RR}Hydrad is behaving like hydrad. Which I think is townie.
That doesn't really add-up. "Hydrad is Hydrad" means null at best.
Is there any way around a non-WW/Faust lynch?
Did I say that? I meant 'is there anyway to have a Faust/WW lynch.' I need to get more sleep.Is there any way around a non-WW/Faust lynch?
those of us on egork certainly seem to think so...
Is there any way around a non-WW/Faust lynch? I don't like lynching either of them, but a flip would be sooooo good for the town.
Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up
I was thinking this, too!Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up
Exactly. I'm specifically saying the breadcrumbs were not made up, but were made for the eventuality that they could be fakeclaimed on and fallen back on if needed.
Good point.Is there any way around a non-WW/Faust lynch? I don't like lynching either of them, but a flip would be sooooo good for the town.
Not unless you vote
Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up
Exactly. I'm specifically saying the breadcrumbs were not made up, but were made for the eventuality that they could be fakeclaimed on and fallen back on if needed.
Is there any way around a non-WW/Faust lynch? I don't like lynching either of them, but a flip would be sooooo good for the town.
It tells us they weren't lying. :PIs there any way around a non-WW/Faust lynch? I don't like lynching either of them, but a flip would be sooooo good for the town.
How so ?
Obviously if they flip scum, great.
But if they flip town (either of them), does that really tell us anything ?
I'd prefer not to lynch Hydrad today.post 1454
Welcome back!
Nice how Hydrad doesn't provide anything during the day, but he's always the first to come in after the thread unlock.
It tells us they weren't lying. :PIs there any way around a non-WW/Faust lynch? I don't like lynching either of them, but a flip would be sooooo good for the town.
How so ?
Obviously if they flip scum, great.
But if they flip town (either of them), does that really tell us anything ?
But you seem to be the voice of reason, so I'll go with 'you're probably right.'
Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up
Exactly. I'm specifically saying the breadcrumbs were not made up, but were made for the eventuality that they could be fakeclaimed on and fallen back on if needed.
I was thinking this, too!Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up
Exactly. I'm specifically saying the breadcrumbs were not made up, but were made for the eventuality that they could be fakeclaimed on and fallen back on if needed.
It seems realistic for someone like you. And I know this was already discussed, but I think it's possible you didn't breadcrumb and you just looked back for something you did that could potentially be a breadcrumb.I was thinking this, too!Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up
Exactly. I'm specifically saying the breadcrumbs were not made up, but were made for the eventuality that they could be fakeclaimed on and fallen back on if needed.
Try thinking better.
What I see more here is WW posting something (1451) that had more to do with hydrad's playstyle of "being along for the ride" as WW says elsewhere than actual suspicion. and once he inadvertantly got haddock's attention on hydrad he felt compelled to try and remove some of that by leaving a "don't want to lynch hydrad" post that also served as a breadcrumb for a claim later.
It seems realistic for someone like you. And I know this was already discussed, but I think it's possible you didn't breadcrumb and you just looked back for something you did that could potentially be a breadcrumb.I was thinking this, too!Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up
Exactly. I'm specifically saying the breadcrumbs were not made up, but were made for the eventuality that they could be fakeclaimed on and fallen back on if needed.
Try thinking better.
I just reread egork and am not seeing scum. Like, not at all.
I like my haddock vote. Still need to reread teproc
I just reread egork and am not seeing scum. Like, not at all.You know what? I just had my first full-blown reread of egor since I got on his wagon. And he's not as scummy as I thought he was. In particular, I remember now that a reason i found him scummy early on was his pushing igu over the bogus scumslip thing. Well SS did the same and was town. So meh.
Well, seems like faust is not going to happen and I believe WW claim. And Haddock seems scummy. Vote: haddockThis reminds me:
I'd post much more reasons why Haddock, but I had surgery on finger today
I don't understand the case on Haddock.
I can't do a hood recap from my phone, but there are little things here and there.
Like this last vote on hydrad. A pressure vote to get him to post more. Am easy vote, one that doesn't take too much effort and you won't really get in trouble for. A nice scum vote
I'd love to hear your whole case when you get a chance.
And I'm sorry Egor, but I can't help but see some OMGUS in your vote here.
I've done one stupid thing this game which I guess could be seen as scummy.
People who've played with me know that a 1-really-stupid-thing-per-game quota is precisely my meta, as either alignment (as far as I can be said to have a meta in my 3rd game).
My perception of you as scummy is just partially based on last incidentSo what else have I done that's scummy? Nothing.
My perception of you as scummy is just partially based on last incidentSo what else have I done that's scummy? Nothing.
You're grasping at straws here.
You talk a lot how what you do looks scummy.Outright false.
You vote mostly on wagons, and if voting not on wagons immediately unvote after being queried/confronted by someone.That has happened only once this game that I can remember.
Also your attempt at organizing Hydrad wagon is strange. If you want to do it vote and present good case. Any case actually. All you do is asking other people if we can probably do it pleaseI'm looking to see if there's interest. There's no point me voting Hydrad if noone else is going to.
You talk a lot how what you do looks scummy.Outright false.
You vote mostly on wagons, and if voting not on wagons immediately unvote after being queried/confronted by someone.That has happened only once this game that I can remember.
Also your attempt at organizing Hydrad wagon is strange. If you want to do it vote and present good case. Any case actually. All you do is asking other people if we can probably do it please
I'm looking to see if there's interest. There's no point me voting Hydrad if noone else is going to.
I thought that the case was pretty clear, it's been presented before. Hydrad is lurky, which he always is. But this time his contributions aren't actually helpful, when usually town!Hydrad's few contributions are well-thought out and helpful.
What, apologising for being missing for a while is scummy? Politeness, more like.You talk a lot how what you do looks scummy.Outright false.
Ok, more like just being sorry for whatever. At least through D1
Bull. I've already explained what happened with ss, I unvoted because I found a flaw in my own reasoning, not because anyone called me out on anything.You vote mostly on wagons, and if voting not on wagons immediately unvote after being queried/confronted by someone.That has happened only once this game that I can remember.
At the very least also with ss
I find you scummier than Hydrad. Which is why I'm voting you. But it's fairly close, so I'm trying to gauge opinions. It's not a complicated notion.Also your attempt at organizing Hydrad wagon is strange. If you want to do it vote and present good case. Any case actually. All you do is asking other people if we can probably do it please
I'm looking to see if there's interest. There's no point me voting Hydrad if noone else is going to.
I thought that the case was pretty clear, it's been presented before. Hydrad is lurky, which he always is. But this time his contributions aren't actually helpful, when usually town!Hydrad's few contributions are well-thought out and helpful.
There are never interest if you would not create it. At the very least this requires vote
If you find me scummier than Hydrad why the heck do you need to create Hydrad wagon when I am the biggest one. What's your case on me by the way?Your wagon being biggish doesn't mean it's going to go through. In fact as more time passes and noone else votes for you I'm more inclined to believe that it won't go through. So other options would be nice.
Well, you are not as scummy as you seemed to me at first glance, but there is still something off about you (I know, it is frustrating to respond to something like this).You're right, it is. But then I just said some of my vote for you is gut, so I guess we're even.
For some reason I can't get much town or scum reads on anyone this game. I mean, many people did towny or scummy things, but on the balance things just don't add up.I sympathise with this.
Alright. This is who I could lynch, in order from most to least likely to be scum.Hurr.
1. Faust
2. Witherweaver
3&4. EgorK = Haddock
5. Hydrad
6. Teproc
The only reason I see for not lynching Hydrad is the mitigating evidence from WW. Teproc could be scum, but as town he seems pretty helpful to town, so I like him least of everyone listed. So since WW/Faust doesn't look like its happening, honestly the bottom four are all really close.
I would be willing to hammer anyone on this list after posting intent.
Alright. This is who I could lynch, in order from most to least likely to be scum.Hurr.
1. Faust
2. Witherweaver
3&4. EgorK = Haddock
5. Hydrad
6. Teproc
The only reason I see for not lynching Hydrad is the mitigating evidence from WW. Teproc could be scum, but as town he seems pretty helpful to town, so I like him least of everyone listed. So since WW/Faust doesn't look like its happening, honestly the bottom four are all really close.
I would be willing to hammer anyone on this list after posting intent.
I'm not sure I like this post.
There's an inherent contradiction in saying you think faust or WW are likely scum but believe their Hydrad result.
You're kinda hedgey about Teproc.
And the last sentence reads a lot like "Look at me, I'm trying to get a good lynch through, but will make sure that my hammer, should I provide it, is as towny-looking as possible!"
This reminds me that I need to reread you.
Day Two ends at 3:00 a.m. on December 19.
Nicely put. Yeah that's all fair enough.
I still need to reread you though. :P
I'm not sure I like the post either. It's a post coming out of frustration with this game and how its not going anywhere, and how people are ignoring bold scummy moves in favor of nitpicking lurky or hedgy play and going after their null reads. The ironic thing about my frustration with the gamestate is certainly that its pushing me to be hedgy and even lurky too. Right now this game totally sucks.
I do somewhat-believe WW's result on Hydrad at least while Hydrad's still alive. It causes me to think slightly different about Hydrad than if no one had said anything about him. This is why I'd much rather see one of Faust/WW flip before making a judgment on what their results mean.
As for the hammering, whatever. Wagons are not forming. The only useful thing I thought I could do was show who I would be willing to lynch. I seriously have no idea how else to contribute to this game at this point.
I feel the same way.I would vote for either faust or WW if it were the only way to get a lynch through. But I don't like it. I don't believe that it's possible for anyone to tell with any certainty at this point which of the two of them is lying. They both have several towny things going for them.
And such I propose a novel new idea: We lynch the WW.
I feel the same way.
And such I propose a novel new idea: We lynch the WW.
A pass for hydrad, that is
It's a mitigating factor, not enough to be a pass for me. I would guess that about 1 of the three scum (assuming a single team) did nothing. Hydrad could also be a ninja.
What I ultimately get out of this is that I don't see scum!WW thinking at the start of day...
"hmmm I should fake a breadcrumb on hydrad" forgetting to do just that in his mildly suspicious post of 1451 and then remembering two posts later "oh yeah! I was supposed to breadcrumb about hydrad! Duh doy!" and then doing just that.
Or that WW in going back and looking for a safe breadcrumb would have missed the 1451, which may have disqualified a "breadcrumb" about hydrad as being suspicious on him.
What I see more here is WW posting something (1451) that had more to do with hydrad's playstyle of "being along for the ride" as WW says elsewhere than actual suspicion. and once he inadvertantly got haddock's attention on hydrad he felt compelled to try and remove some of that by leaving a "don't want to lynch hydrad" post that also served as a breadcrumb for a claim later.
the problem with what amaphorus is suggesting is that he is saying that mafia will eliminate a potential fake scum read and potential mislynch (WW posting that hydrad is townie) for the sake of having a breadcrumb.
Out of the possibilities this is the more probable, but still less likely than the likelihood of ww just being town and bread crumbing...
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable.
I'm not sure I like this post.
There's an inherent contradiction in saying you think faust or WW are likely scum but believe their Hydrad result.
You're kinda hedgey about Teproc.
And the last sentence reads a lot like "Look at me, I'm trying to get a good lynch through, but will make sure that my hammer, should I provide it, is as towny-looking as possible!"
This reminds me that I need to reread you.
I feel the same way.I would vote for either faust or WW if it were the only way to get a lynch through. But I don't like it. I don't believe that it's possible for anyone to tell with any certainty at this point which of the two of them is lying. They both have several towny things going for them.
And such I propose a novel new idea: We lynch the WW.
I don't understand why you think it's such a bad idea to let some time pass to try to get some more information that might help us pick one of them more accurately.
Maybe you just don't fancy our chances of finding scum today. Well that's fair. I'm on similar ground at the moment.
But I think it's worth looking, the consequences of getting it wrong out of faust/WW could be pretty awful.
PPE. Welp, I think any of the 3 claimed roles so far could be scum pulling a bold gambit. But since we have no idea which at this point, leaving it for now seems decent.
2 things:I don't understand why you think it's such a bad idea to let some time pass to try to get some more information that might help us pick one of them more accurately.
Maybe you just don't fancy our chances of finding scum today. Well that's fair. I'm on similar ground at the moment.
But I think it's worth looking, the consequences of getting it wrong out of faust/WW could be pretty awful.
PPE. Welp, I think any of the 3 claimed roles so far could be scum pulling a bold gambit. But since we have no idea which at this point, leaving it for now seems decent.
Hitting scum early usually great improves the odds for town. WW is by far the most likely to be scum. And it's not like we have to be afraid of losing a super important role in him.
RR should really vote.Couldn't agree more.
I am also warming up to a random last second ampharos lynch. I know my D1 scum read on him really cooled off a lot, but absolute refusal to even look at any one else until WW is lynched? I guess that is more anti town than scum. And yeah, lynch scum not people just playing what you would describe as anti town. But stillCOULD agree more.
RR should really vote.
I am also warming up to a random last second ampharos lynch. I know my D1 scum read on him really cooled off a lot, but absolute refusal to even look at any one else until WW is lynched? I guess that is more anti town than scum. And yeah, lynch scum not people just playing what you would describe as anti town. But still
What I ultimately get out of this is that I don't see scum!WW thinking at the start of day...
"hmmm I should fake a breadcrumb on hydrad" forgetting to do just that in his mildly suspicious post of 1451 and then remembering two posts later "oh yeah! I was supposed to breadcrumb about hydrad! Duh doy!" and then doing just that.
Or that WW in going back and looking for a safe breadcrumb would have missed the 1451, which may have disqualified a "breadcrumb" about hydrad as being suspicious on him.
What I see more here is WW posting something (1451) that had more to do with hydrad's playstyle of "being along for the ride" as WW says elsewhere than actual suspicion. and once he inadvertantly got haddock's attention on hydrad he felt compelled to try and remove some of that by leaving a "don't want to lynch hydrad" post that also served as a breadcrumb for a claim later.
The argument seems to be that scum!WW immediately breadcrumbs, while town!WW does not... but I don't understand why.
And why do I need to vote? I mean, I understand that I should, and I will after a short reread, but need is sort of a string word for this.
RR should really vote.
I am also warming up to a random last second ampharos lynch. I know my D1 scum read on him really cooled off a lot, but absolute refusal to even look at any one else until WW is lynched? I guess that is more anti town than scum. And yeah, lynch scum not people just playing what you would describe as anti town. But still
Vote: Awaclus
I've already given my reasons. They haven't changed, they've just been aggravated.
If it was Awaclus OTOH pushing a Yuma lynch, one would expect him to know better. Oh wait, Awaclus was pushing a Yuma lynch.
Everyone is saying they're fine with an Awaclus lynch. Well, I'll say that I like it a lot better than an Ampharos lynch.
Any takers?
oh good. Now we can move on and lynch either Awaclus or Ampharos.
Ampharos because he is scummy
Awaclus because he is a lurker who tried to take advantage of the whole yuma disappearing act to lynch yuma. Which I think is scummy.
well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
This may look scummy, but Vote: AwaclusHow many votes are on Awaclus?
5 (aka L-2)
What I ultimately get out of this is that I don't see scum!WW thinking at the start of day...
"hmmm I should fake a breadcrumb on hydrad" forgetting to do just that in his mildly suspicious post of 1451 and then remembering two posts later "oh yeah! I was supposed to breadcrumb about hydrad! Duh doy!" and then doing just that.
Or that WW in going back and looking for a safe breadcrumb would have missed the 1451, which may have disqualified a "breadcrumb" about hydrad as being suspicious on him.
What I see more here is WW posting something (1451) that had more to do with hydrad's playstyle of "being along for the ride" as WW says elsewhere than actual suspicion. and once he inadvertantly got haddock's attention on hydrad he felt compelled to try and remove some of that by leaving a "don't want to lynch hydrad" post that also served as a breadcrumb for a claim later.
The argument seems to be that scum!WW immediately breadcrumbs, while town!WW does not... but I don't understand why.
I'm honestly surprised you think that fake just-in-case breadcrumbing is a thing.
Let's get back to facts. I used my power on Hydrad last night. Discuss from there.
What I ultimately get out of this is that I don't see scum!WW thinking at the start of day...
"hmmm I should fake a breadcrumb on hydrad" forgetting to do just that in his mildly suspicious post of 1451 and then remembering two posts later "oh yeah! I was supposed to breadcrumb about hydrad! Duh doy!" and then doing just that.
Or that WW in going back and looking for a safe breadcrumb would have missed the 1451, which may have disqualified a "breadcrumb" about hydrad as being suspicious on him.
What I see more here is WW posting something (1451) that had more to do with hydrad's playstyle of "being along for the ride" as WW says elsewhere than actual suspicion. and once he inadvertantly got haddock's attention on hydrad he felt compelled to try and remove some of that by leaving a "don't want to lynch hydrad" post that also served as a breadcrumb for a claim later.
The argument seems to be that scum!WW immediately breadcrumbs, while town!WW does not... but I don't understand why.
I'm honestly surprised you think that fake just-in-case breadcrumbing is a thing.
Let's get back to facts. I used my power on Hydrad last night. Discuss from there.
It is more of a thing than the scum redirection fairytale. You're also scummy because you do not push for my lynch.
Also on me is Hydrad, which I don't really get as he essentially said he believed me after getting caught up.
I'm sorry, do you have a better scum!You explanation than the one I proposed?
I'm sorry, do you have a better scum!You explanation than the one I proposed?
Do you have a better explanation for what happened than a single role that may or may not be in the game and in any case could have been used more effectively?
Out of the possibilities this is the more probable, but still less likely than the likelihood of ww just being town and bread crumbing...
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable.
You mean to say less likely than WW being town and breadcrumbing and scum having a redirecting power and scum using it on me?
The argument seems to be that scum!WW immediately breadcrumbs, while town!WW does not... but I don't understand why.
the problem with what amaphorus is suggesting is that he is saying that mafia will eliminate a potential fake scum read and potential mislynch (WW posting that hydrad is townie) for the sake of having a breadcrumb.
Hydrad need not be town. And scum!WW does not need to use that breadcrumb if he feels it would be detrimental.
I have to admit I'm scared of rereads... 91 pages is a lot of stuff. Could there be scum intentionally spamming the thread to make rereads hard? I know someone proposed that way back in my first scum game (M31). None of my then-teammates is in this game sadly.
You know what?
Vote: Hydrad
He is scummy, and a flip here just might help you all realize that WW is indeed lying.
A flip from Hydrad seems okay. But a flip from WW seems better. Vote: WitherWeaver
I have to admit I'm scared of rereads... 91 pages is a lot of stuff. Could there be scum intentionally spamming the thread to make rereads hard? I know someone proposed that way back in my first scum game (M31). None of my then-teammates is in this game sadly.
One of the mods is though!
man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?
I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...
man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?
I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...
man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?
I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...
Better watch out Yuma. If you seem frustrated then Teproc and Roadrunner are gunna call you out.
man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?
I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...
Better watch out Yuma. If you seem frustrated then Teproc and Roadrunner are gunna call you out.
I'm just annoyed by people continually complaining that this game sucks and implying that some things have not gotten scrutiny when in fact they have gotten infinite amounts of scrutiny, it's just that people disagreeabout them.
And so through no fault of any particular person that I can see, the game is going nowhere and it seems right now to be to the great detriment of town.
I feel the same way.
And such I propose a novel new idea: We lynch the WW.
I propose a novel new idea: read and respond (ideally by moving your vote elsewhere) to the posts that completely shut down your reasons for wanting to lynch WW.
...
Yes, Bus Driving targets two people.
Her's the thing AMpharos : you're focusing on the weaker parts of the argument against scum!WW, which are all the breadcrumb things. I mostly agree with you that the breadcrumbs are mostly null.
In the process, you are ignoring the fact that, while it might be a convenient claim, it's a very specific claim, and not as convenient as it could be. Why doesn't WW claim to be a town role having targeted HYdrad here ? Why does he complicate his life by directly contradicting faust, yet not really pushing for his lynch ?
I have nothing against lynching active people. e and Haddock are both on the table for me.
@WW : Your Hydrad result does not clear him. It makes himslightly less likely to be scum, but not by that much.
Yes, Bus Driving targets two people.
You shouldn't take people off the lynch table for being active. I'm usually at the top of post counts as town or scum.
You shouldn't take people off the lynch table for being active. I'm usually at the top of post counts as town or scum.
You shouldn't take people off the lynch table for being active. I'm usually at the top of post counts as town or scum.
Her's the thing AMpharos : you're focusing on the weaker parts of the argument against scum!WW, which are all the breadcrumb things. I mostly agree with you that the breadcrumbs are mostly null.
In the process, you are ignoring the fact that, while it might be a convenient claim, it's a very specific claim, and not as convenient as it could be. Why doesn't WW claim to be a town role having targeted HYdrad here ? Why does he complicate his life by directly contradicting faust, yet not really pushing for his lynch ?
Because having targetted silver would not have fit his behaviour at all. Also, if he had claimed that, we would have lynched him.
You shouldn't take people off the lynch table for being active. I'm usually at the top of post counts as town or scum.
I'm saying they probably aren't going to get lynched today because they are active. I find they're the type of scum that gets killed later. Sure it could happen today, but odds are no. If we decide to go that route, I'll admit I was wrong.
PPE (all the posts. seriously I cannot post this because I keep getting the red warning box)
You shouldn't take people off the lynch table for being active. I'm usually at the top of post counts as town or scum.
I'm saying they probably aren't going to get lynched today because they are active. I find they're the type of scum that gets killed later. Sure it could happen today, but odds are no. If we decide to go that route, I'll admit I was wrong.
PPE (all the posts. seriously I cannot post this because I keep getting the red warning box)
This is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You shouldn't take people off the lynch table for being active. I'm usually at the top of post counts as town or scum.
I'm saying they probably aren't going to get lynched today because they are active. I find they're the type of scum that gets killed later. Sure it could happen today, but odds are no. If we decide to go that route, I'll admit I was wrong.
PPE (all the posts. seriously I cannot post this because I keep getting the red warning box)
You shouldn't take people off the lynch table for being active. I'm usually at the top of post counts as town or scum.
We need to start counting your contributions by the character instead of by the post!
Don't worry though, you've got plenty of character.
I think you meant this sarcastically, but I agree with what Teproc replied to this.man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?
I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...
Better watch out Yuma. If you seem frustrated then Teproc and Roadrunner are gunna call you out.
I'm sorry, why is lynching WW basically off the table?
Okay, that was scummy.
Vote: Hydrad
Okay, that was scummy.Ugh
Vote: Hydrad
Okay, that was scummy.Ugh
Vote: Hydrad
{curling up into a little ball to die somewhere}
Her's the thing AMpharos : you're focusing on the weaker parts of the argument against scum!WW, which are all the breadcrumb things. I mostly agree with you that the breadcrumbs are mostly null.
In the process, you are ignoring the fact that, while it might be a convenient claim, it's a very specific claim, and not as convenient as it could be. Why doesn't WW claim to be a town role having targeted HYdrad here ? Why does he complicate his life by directly contradicting faust, yet not really pushing for his lynch ?
Because having targetted silver would not have fit his behaviour at all. Also, if he had claimed that, we would have lynched him.
Okay, that was scummy.Ugh
Vote: Hydrad
{curling up into a little ball to die somewhere}
does that mean you disagree with the vote on me. because thats what I hope it means.
Her's the thing AMpharos : you're focusing on the weaker parts of the argument against scum!WW, which are all the breadcrumb things. I mostly agree with you that the breadcrumbs are mostly null.
In the process, you are ignoring the fact that, while it might be a convenient claim, it's a very specific claim, and not as convenient as it could be. Why doesn't WW claim to be a town role having targeted HYdrad here ? Why does he complicate his life by directly contradicting faust, yet not really pushing for his lynch ?
Because having targetted silver would not have fit his behaviour at all. Also, if he had claimed that, we would have lynched him.
Would we have? I don't think I would have...
I really think a main difference in how I am approaching the game and how you are approaching the game is that it feels like you are playing this like it is an open setup and there can't be anything that affected your investigation on WW. You feel like it must be known (how I don't know).
But this isn't an open setup. It is closed. There is the potential for interference with result in a myriad of ways, some of them we have talked about others we couldn't anticipate because this is a closed setup. I want to try and get more information about this before making a decision.
It isn't like your investigation result is just going to disappear... at least it shouldn't and if I am alive in the coming days and if I feel like it is relevant and we learn more that implicates WW or learn there isn't anything holding him up... we will lynch him. I think we can sit on your result and make sure it is what it is and not lose anything in the process.
Intent to hammer
This day has been less productive than a UN meeting. I think we are about done here.
PPE 1
Intent to hammer
This day has been less productive than a UN meeting. I think we are about done here.
PPE 1
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.
I take partial blame, that's for sure. Do I assume it's entirely my fault? No.Intent to hammer
This day has been less productive than a UN meeting. I think we are about done here.
PPE 1Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.
Yet for some reason you seem to believe that Egor is a better lynch than WW for some unfathomable reason.
Okay, that was scummy.
Vote: Hydrad
Okay, that was scummy.
Vote: Hydrad
I disagree that this vote is scummy.
Also, I don't believe in intent to hammer
Also, I don't believe in intent to hammer
I guess RR is voting, nevermind.Can I have an 'I voted' sticker?
(http://static.labelvalue.com/images/productImages/853/large/lv-voted-1.jpg)🙃
Yet for some reason you seem to believe that Egor is a better lynch than WW for some unfathomable reason.
Simply put: reads. PRs are good and all and investigation results are great. But at the end of the day the game comes down to reads. I think Egork is scummy. I don't think WW is. I want more to show that WW is mafia before I change my read... I mean it has changed already to more scummy, but we have an opportunity to learn more via his/others roles.
I think EgorK is scummy. And right now there isn't anything to indicate from PRs one way or the other nor do I anticipate there will be in the future--at least not to the extent that we hope to get from information about WW going forward. So I am more ok lynching him.
And no worries about tone/agitation
I guess that could be a difference between our playstyles - I like direct evidence better than reads. Of course I understand that for you the WW situation is also more difficult than more me because you have to consider the possibility that I am scum.
I still intend to hammer but I doubt I'll follow through.
Voet: EgorKI still intend to hammer but I doubt I'll follow through.
then your not really intending to hammer...
In all seriousness, if you do intend to hammer you have to leave Egork an opporunity to claim.I'm not going to hammer until he claims.
RR you're crazy.Right about what?
I can only hope you guys are right.
PSYCH
I don't have strong scum feelings for Egor.
Yuma should shoot. Just sayingI agree with this one.
Voet: EgorKI still intend to hammer but I doubt I'll follow through.
then your not really intending to hammer...
I don't know that this vote counts.It was a joke.
Vote: RR
I do have quite poor taste, thanks for noticing!I don't know that this vote counts.It was a joke.
Vote: RR
Poor taste, but a joke.
Egor has not been hammered. If he appears, obviously he should claim.
You're voting RR for NOT quickhammering ?Don't mind 2.7, he likes to see me lynched :)
What a world...
Yeah, I lynch scummy people. RR is being scummy right now. I will probably relax and go back to my other vote later. But RR is scummiest right now with that fake vote
a) obviously a joke (I thought it was pretty funny actually)I'm glad you have a good sense of humor, but it might now be as obvious as you think it is. I have done things a lot stupider than spelling the word 'vote' wrong.
If I were a mod I would count that vote. Pretty sure it is stated that misspellings are counted. Not sure what ash thinks.... Guess we will find out.
If I were a mod I would count that vote. Pretty sure it is stated that misspellings are counted. Not sure what ash thinks.... Guess we will find out.If it does count, and EgorK is scum, I'm not a hero, am I?
If I were a mod I would count that vote. Pretty sure it is stated that misspellings are counted. Not sure what ash thinks.... Guess we will find out.
Definitely not. Misspellings of the name are counted, but not of the voting syntax.
If you want jurisprudence on that, I'll suggest opening Legend of Zelda Mafia and Ctrl+F "vpte"
Wait,I'm glad you have confidence in me, WW.
RR, was that mispelling intentional?
It's just that you haven't been around for the vpte/v0te/voet stuff that's happened in the past. So how would you know it's not valid?I play a dangerous game.
And I think I read something about misspelling in Switch (not that I read the setup).It's just that you haven't been around for the vpte/v0te/voet stuff that's happened in the past. So how would you know it's not valid?I play a dangerous game.
If I were a mod I would count that vote. Pretty sure it is stated that misspellings are counted. Not sure what ash thinks.... Guess we will find out.If it does count, and EgorK is scum, I'm not a hero, am I?
Ah, yes. Flavor.If I were a mod I would count that vote. Pretty sure it is stated that misspellings are counted. Not sure what ash thinks.... Guess we will find out.If it does count, and EgorK is scum, I'm not a hero, am I?
If you're not a hero, you must be scum.
Why is Egor scummy again?
Why is Egor scummy again?
You all can't answer that question, huh? Everyone who can't answer that question should not be voting for Egor.
words
Why is Egor scummy again?
You all can't answer that question, huh? Everyone who can't answer that question should not be voting for Egor.
Why is Egor scummy again?
You all can't answer that question, huh? Everyone who can't answer that question should not be voting for Egor.
I answered it already. He's not that scummy, but he's the least townie player around (well, there's e too).
To my knowledge, that is the only way to catch scum!EgorK. Worked in ASoIaF.
Why is Egor scummy again?
You all can't answer that question, huh? Everyone who can't answer that question should not be voting for Egor.
I answered it already. He's not that scummy, but he's the least townie player around (well, there's e too).
To my knowledge, that is the only way to catch scum!EgorK. Worked in ASoIaF.
Lots of people are scummy. Hydrad, RR, e, WW are just the ones I can think of the top off my head. Some others I don't really have an opinion on. Ampharos, iguana. How are all these townier than Egor?
Oh come on, Faust. You're fabulous at Mafia. But I will not take your RR reads seriously for this game, and maybe even another game after this! Harry Potter Mafia is still fresh as a daisy in my mind.
Oh, yay. I thought that might've been sorta scummy, or maybe Faust just wants me dead so I stop talking about Harry Potter. That's reasonable.Oh come on, Faust. You're fabulous at Mafia. But I will not take your RR reads seriously for this game, and maybe even another game after this! Harry Potter Mafia is still fresh as a daisy in my mind.
Vote: RR
vote: e while I consider egors claim. His reaction to RR being RR is scummy.'His reaction'
Sorry, he is e. Thought that was clear.I'm sure it's clear to anyone but me.
Yuma, putting me L-1 achieves what exactly? Forcing me to claim? It won't be too exciting. Lynching me? One more mislynch. And with there possibly edirector of some sort, you can't even shoot safely to increase variance. Nothing good would be done
One thing I thought about is we should not at the very least add Awaclus to the number of power roles when we asses PR claims. If I understand his role correctly his role is negative utility for town, so if anything there should be a bit more town PRs among others than if Awaclus was VT (or a bit less powerful PRs for scum)
I took it to mean "mafiascum normal". Which only has a restriction that there must be at least one VT.
If the roles are fairly tame I could see there being quite a few of them.
Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer, Vanillaizer, Beloved Princess, Arsonist, Governor
I don't think we should base decisions too heavily on an expected number of PRs.
I think Dr. Stange can be some type of roleblocker, as he seems to be some kind of protector against black magic. But well, any avenger is a hero and hence should have some superpower, so as this is normal some wouldn't have itHmm. Pointing out that the flavour might expect a role to be associated to this character? ie. pointing out a potential flaw in his own claim? Towny af.
I don't think anything you said sounded like Ash criticism.
I can't get over the towniness inherent in Egor pointing out an "apparent flaw" in his own claim. Could he have faked that?
I can't get over the towniness inherent in Egor pointing out an "apparent flaw" in his own claim. Could he have faked that?
I can't get over the towniness inherent in Egor pointing out an "apparent flaw" in his own claim. Could he have faked that?
Uh, yeah. It's much better he points it out than someone else, which was definitely going to happen. And after all he's not pointing out a "flaw". He says all Heroes make sense as PRs, but some just have to be VTs.
Would Dr. Strange be expected to have a PR, flavourwise? I don't know him really.
That said, I am leaning toward vote: teprocnyer.......
Actually, no. WW's point about looking for people who believed the claims quite quickly stands, independent of his alignment.
So not Hydrad.
vote: e again.
Yep. I like this. Either way round, e looks bad.
Plus he was scummy anyway.
Who's in?
Yep. I like this. Either way round, e looks bad.
Plus he was scummy anyway.
Who's in?
No.
If WW is scum then e's instant acceptance of his claim looks suspicious, no?
Actually, no. WW's point about looking for people who believed the claims quite quickly stands, independent of his alignment.
So not Hydrad.
vote: e again.
Err.. how does that point make sense if WW is scum?
Perhaps I'm approaching that too naively.
But scum doesn't want to see his partner lynched, so tries to get a culture of believing WWs claim going.
Perhaps I'm approaching that too naively.
But scum doesn't want to see his partner lynched, so tries to get a culture of believing WWs claim going.
that is certainly a plausible approach for a scum partner to take. But it certainly isn't the only option, nor do I think it is the most likely.
Remember. If WW is scum then his partners know that he is guilty and know that if he does flip they want to be on the "pushing" side when it comes to analysis of the flip afterwards. That is the approach I think mafia would take if WW is scum.... push for his lynch and then once they saw that it looked like it wasn't going to immediately happen, switch over and start to semi-push against it....
And how do you think scum reacts to town me?
Yuma is spot on here.
Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?No.
Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?
Easy. It isn't.Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?
I guess I haven't heard why that was scummy. Absurd sure... but not sure why it is scummy...
Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?
Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?
I guess I haven't heard why that was scummy. Absurd sure... but not sure why it is scummy...
EgorK's VT claim... I'm still thinking about it. Being less in touch with f.ds means I'm not sure if scum!EgorK can expect to get away with it. It's the non-obvious play, but we've been giving town!cred for non-obvious claims (see : WW), so...
I also don't particularly like the alternative wagon forming for some reason. Could do e, as always.
EgorK's VT claim... I'm still thinking about it. Being less in touch with f.ds means I'm not sure if scum!EgorK can expect to get away with it. It's the non-obvious play, but we've been giving town!cred for non-obvious claims (see : WW), so...
I also don't particularly like the alternative wagon forming for some reason. Could do e, as always.
I don't really see alternative wagons. Sure, RR has 2 votes, but that isn't happening. I have a vote, but that isn't happening.
yuma, I'm not completely and utterly closed-minded re. Teproc, can you explain to me the case? (more than just gut would of course be nice)
Have we had instances of town letting claimed VTs at L-1 live recently ?
Have we had instances of town letting claimed VTs at L-1 live recently ?
I don't know that we have let anyone at l-1 live recently
1) did he prepare a fake claim
2) did he not prepare a fake claim
I think he would not have, so vt is totally expected from scum!egork
Flavor matters. Non-Heroes will receive adequate information to safely claim. That said, no flavor knowledge is required to play this game.
Can we lynch RR now for that absurd fake hammer?No. I was hoping people (anyone, not only Egor) would think it was real. I also want to see how people react to it after it's a confirmed fake.
Faust, why it PoE "bogus" ? Because you don't agree with it I suppose.
Well, please note that your speculation about what scum would do here are bogus.
Like,scum ramping up wagons on people to out PRs is a paranoid town fantasy at best, never seen it really done.
Faust, why it PoE "bogus" ? Because you don't agree with it I suppose.
Well, please note that your speculation about what scum would do here are bogus.
I don't believe in a PoE that leaves you with only 2 people on day 2. It means you have been giving out town reads too easily.
Some part of the poe was a desire to lynch off the awa wagon. That narrows it to 4 straightaway then you only need to give out 2 townreads. Hardly too many.
Like,scum ramping up wagons on people to out PRs is a paranoid town fantasy at best, never seen it really done.
I'm not saying it was the plan all along. But if I as scum see a VT claim, I'll definitely think "well, I'd prefer to keep this one alive".
Some part of the poe was a desire to lynch off the awa wagon. That narrows it to 4 straightaway then you only need to give out 2 townreads. Hardly too many.
Yeah, I don't really care about that wagon yet. Later on it will be useful, but for now we should just lynch scummy people. Like you.Sigh.
vote: haddock
One thing that reinforces my scum read on e is his attitude towards me. I have been semi-tunneling him for a while now, and I think he responded a bit towards the end of day 1, but nothing since then.
Now, to be clear, this is undoubtedly the most pro-town reaction there is, because long, drawn-out fights between people who believe the other is scum tend to be unproductive. But this is what has bugged me about e's play this game all along : ash once said that when I'm scummy I'm town and when I'm townie I'm scum. I don't fully agree, but I think he's getting at something here : people who have a townie meta (like e) will double down on their efforts to appear pro-town as scum. In other words, e's play this game is too townie to be town.
One thing that reinforces my scum read on e is his attitude towards me. I have been semi-tunneling him for a while now, and I think he responded a bit towards the end of day 1, but nothing since then.
Now, to be clear, this is undoubtedly the most pro-town reaction there is, because long, drawn-out fights between people who believe the other is scum tend to be unproductive. But this is what has bugged me about e's play this game all along : ash once said that when I'm scummy I'm town and when I'm townie I'm scum. I don't fully agree, but I think he's getting at something here : people who have a townie meta (like e) will double down on their efforts to appear pro-town as scum. In other words, e's play this game is too townie to be town.
I agree, though I think
"people who have a townie meta (like e) will double down on their efforts to appear pro-town as scum."
exactly applies to you as well.
So what does it mean? I think there is scum on that wagon. Scum who wanted the claim and now prefer to get a PR mislynched. The wagon is:
Ok I'm feeling better about leaving WW/faust alive for now and seeing if things don't add up later on also.
Now for who else to vote... muhahahhaha.
Vote: Egork and I believe L-1
Like,scum ramping up wagons on people to out PRs is a paranoid town fantasy at best, never seen it really done.
Like,scum ramping up wagons on people to out PRs is a paranoid town fantasy at best, never seen it really done.
oh wait... I am agreeing with Teproc.... Yikes!
Like,scum ramping up wagons on people to out PRs is a paranoid town fantasy at best, never seen it really done.
oh wait... I am agreeing with Teproc.... Yikes!
There's so many opinions out there on everything, you were bound to agree with one of them.
Ok, I re-read EgorK.
These are the things EgorK has done that contributed to me wanting to vote for him.
1) Push my lynch for bolding incorrectly, drops it when it proves unpopular
2) Stays on a weak case for RR all day D1, pays little attention to what else happens. 3) Drops his RR case D2 without giving a reason, just mentions "I don't think RR is scum anymore" at one point.
4) Pushes Yuma lynch right away for derphammer, drops it when pressured and sees it is unpopular. Seems very similar to when he voted me for bolding incorrectly.
5) Post#2234 where he makes a case on Haddock that basically may as well be a case on him.
The more I study the case, the more it looks weak. Egor has looked townier today. He just had a scummy entrance into D2 that made him my default vote when I didn't know who else to vote for, but the more I look at D2 the less his vote feels warranted.
Unvote
Egor: Why did you drop your case on Roadrunner?
Unofficial Vote Count:
WW (1): Ampharos
Egor (2): Hydrad, RR
Haddock (3): Egor, faust, e
Teproc (2): WW, yuma
e (2): Haddock, Teproc
Hooray, I'm the leading wagon. :-\
I really don't know what to do here. We're over 100 pages and I'm completely lost. I like my e vote, I think, but I'm not sure about anything any more. We need some wagons again, deadline is getting closeish now.
Ampharos, WW is not getting lynched today it seems. Vote someone else?
Ok, I re-read EgorK.
These are the things EgorK has done that contributed to me wanting to vote for him.
1) Push my lynch for bolding incorrectly, drops it when it proves unpopular
2) Stays on a weak case for RR all day D1, pays little attention to what else happens. 3) Drops his RR case D2 without giving a reason, just mentions "I don't think RR is scum anymore" at one point.
4) Pushes Yuma lynch right away for derphammer, drops it when pressured and sees it is unpopular. Seems very similar to when he voted me for bolding incorrectly.
5) Post#2234 where he makes a case on Haddock that basically may as well be a case on him.
The more I study the case, the more it looks weak. Egor has looked townier today. He just had a scummy entrance into D2 that made him my default vote when I didn't know who else to vote for, but the more I look at D2 the less his vote feels warranted.
Unvote
Egor: Why did you drop your case on Roadrunner?
getting a scummy vibe again from iguana for this post.
Oh and not voting: Igu
Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.
Why is that?
His reaction is that he got the point and wants to move on because
a) it's not nice having people berate you (alignment-neutral)
b) it's distracting from the actual game
I think scum would either go "you're not the boss of me" and stay on Hydrad, or unvote or log off. I don't think they'd cede to the pressure and change their vote back, because they don't want to appear to malleable, as it puts the falseness of their reads in sharp focus.
I agree. I thought his "If I go back someone will accuse me of being scummy" and then doing just that was actually pretty townie.
Seems like you are getting a scummy vibe from me every time I try to actually do some work and interpret the game.
Want to share your thoughts?
No, won't that be a mis-lynch if you believe WW to be telling the truth and there's no redirection?
No, won't that be a mis-lynch if you believe WW to be telling the truth and there's no redirection?
No, won't that be a mis-lynch if you believe WW to be telling the truth and there's no redirection?
As has been said a few times now, WW's result doesn't clear Hydrad. It makes him less likely to be scum, doesn't clear him though, not even close.
No, won't that be a mis-lynch if you believe WW to be telling the truth and there's no redirection?
As has been said a few times now, WW's result doesn't clear Hydrad. It makes him less likely to be scum, doesn't clear him though, not even close.
Right, so since he's less likely to be scum if you assume WW to be correct, then I don't see why to lynch him. Though I suppose ig and faust never really like WW's claim.
To be clear, if I thought WW's claim was correct, I would not go for Hydrad, because that assumes two things: A) Hydrad did not perform the kill. B) Hydrad does not have redirecting abilities or any other targetting PR.
To be clear, if I thought WW's claim was correct, I would not go for Hydrad, because that assumes two things: A) Hydrad did not perform the kill. B) Hydrad does not have redirecting abilities or any other targetting PR.
To be clear, if I thought WW's claim was correct, I would not go for Hydrad, because that assumes two things: A) Hydrad did not perform the kill. B) Hydrad does not have redirecting abilities or any other targetting PR.
Why are you undermining your preferred wagon ?
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.
Oh no....the too townie to be town argument....Is that what you're saying I am? Too townie to be town?
Should I be excited that this argument is being used against me?
Oh no....the too townie to be town argument....For what it's worth, I think you're scummy because you're scummy, not because you're "too towny to be town". I don't see what everyone else is seeing.
Should I be excited that this argument is being used against me?
Oh no....the too townie to be town argument....For what it's worth, I think you're scummy because you're scummy, not because you're "too towny to be town". I don't see what everyone else is seeing.
Should I be excited that this argument is being used against me?
Oh no....the too townie to be town argument....For what it's worth, I think you're scummy because you're scummy, not because you're "too towny to be town". I don't see what everyone else is seeing.
Should I be excited that this argument is being used against me?
I know I post a lot, but not to the point of being "everyone else".
And I haven't seen "too townie to be town" be used elsewhere, not even against me, so I'm not sure what e's saying here.
Or a lynch.
Or a lynch.A badge is fine.
Do you really think I'm scum WW ?
and I'm back. I know you all missed me.You're about to die.
and I'm back. I know you all missed me.You're about to die.
Vote: Hydradand I'm back. I know you all missed me.You're about to die.
I think thats a bit of an overreaction. But if your right i'd be impressed.
Yuma is usually the "weird is not scummy" advocate, right?
Yuma is usually the "weird is not scummy" advocate, right?
I'm feeling Teproc less.
Haddock or e?
I'm feeling Teproc less.
Haddock or e?
And Hydrad, yeah it definitely wasn't just yuma backed off. Several of us did (inc me). I don't want to speak for them, but I know I would go back to Egor if nothing else I liked appeared.
vote: RRIt's just a prank, bro.
I think at this point RR is either scum trying to pull off a "if I am totally zany and crazy I won't get lynched thing" or town not giving a hoot about this game.
Either way I think the lynch will probably be beneficial. One, obviously more so. But someone has to die today right?
My jokes are really ill timed. Sorry!
Unvote. It was, I only think you're like 9% scummy.My jokes are really ill timed. Sorry!
Was your vote on me a joke? That one didn't really feel like a joke.
Unvote. It was, I only think you're like 9% scummy.My jokes are really ill timed. Sorry!
Was your vote on me a joke? That one didn't really feel like a joke.
This looks so much like scum backpedalling to me.Unvote. It was, I only think you're like 9% scummy.My jokes are really ill timed. Sorry!
Was your vote on me a joke? That one didn't really feel like a joke.
YesUnvote. It was, I only think you're like 9% scummy.My jokes are really ill timed. Sorry!
Was your vote on me a joke? That one didn't really feel like a joke.
9% scummy. does that mean you have a really strong town read on me?
You have a RRdoingweirdshit meter? That makes me feel special. :)This looks so much like scum backpedalling to me.Unvote. It was, I only think you're like 9% scummy.My jokes are really ill timed. Sorry!
Was your vote on me a joke? That one didn't really feel like a joke.
My scum-o-meter is, like, at war with my RRdoingweirdshit-o-meter.
Going to bed. Deadline is essentially tomorrow night, right?I'm calling a RR lynch.
In the sense that presumably noone will be up at 3am.
Lets see what tomorrow brings.
Vote: eSo you're unfazed by the fact that I've been acting 'crazy scummy?'
vote: RRIt's just a prank, bro.
I think at this point RR is either scum trying to pull off a "if I am totally zany and crazy I won't get lynched thing" or town not giving a hoot about this game.
Either way I think the lynch will probably be beneficial. One, obviously more so. But someone has to die today right?
PPE
I'll add 'calling people a bro' to my meta list. My TOWN meta list.vote: RRIt's just a prank, bro.
I think at this point RR is either scum trying to pull off a "if I am totally zany and crazy I won't get lynched thing" or town not giving a hoot about this game.
Either way I think the lynch will probably be beneficial. One, obviously more so. But someone has to die today right?
PPE
The last time you called me a bro, you were scum. I called it then and am calling it now.
Vote: eSo you're unfazed by the fact that I've been acting 'crazy scummy?'
Probably smart. I'm okay with that, that gives you a null read on me.Vote: eSo you're unfazed by the fact that I've been acting 'crazy scummy?'
I don't pay much attention to what you post.
Can I get a case against me?
Can I get a case against me?I'm terrible at presenting cases. I guess going for me was scummy? Maybe? You don't seem scummy to me.
vote: teproc to make him have more votes that 2.7. But really... I think we should lynch RR.
vote: teproc to make him have more votes that 2.7. But really... I think we should lynch RR.
Actually this is where the vote count is I think :
2.71828... (3) : Haddock, Teproc, Witherweaver
Hydrad (2) : iguanaiguana, faust
Haddock (2) : EgorK, 2.71828...
Teproc (2) : Ampharos, yuma
EgorK (1) : Hydrad
Not Voting (1) : Roadrunner7671
You are all way overestimating how much WW's claim has an impact on WW.
Like, so many contigencies. It's similar to scumteams or not voting for someone because people on the wagon are scummy.
I think I just said what Yuma said. I haven't been this stoned since college.Fixed.
oh I like this. I love being townie and without me actually having to do anything.Be sure to avoid prods though!
oh I like this. I love being townie and without me actually having to do anything.Be sure to avoid prods though!
I think I just said what Yuma said. I haven't been this stoned since college.Fixed.
I thought you didn't pay attention to my posts!I think I just said what Yuma said. I haven't been this stoned since college.Fixed.
....
ya pretty much tommorow. and teproc vs e currently. sounds fun!
Vote: Teproc
I thought you didn't pay attention to my posts!I think I just said what Yuma said. I haven't been this stoned since college.Fixed.
....
Can I get a case against me?Opportunistic behaviour re. myself and RR.
Basically I have been very careful to act townie. I knew I should have hammer egork when I had the chanceGut.
Fatalist RR is town!RR. Except he knows that and can be expected to emulate it...I'm an over-the-top guy. We know this. And as scum, there is NO WAY I would make jokes about dayvigging and hammering and voting for Hydrad and people being stoned (as in drunk, not being killed by getting hit by thrown stones). But GG, everyone! This game was a lot of fun.
I think this is overdoing it.
Meh. Wait and see whether others join in before you hit the panic button.Fatalist RR is town!RR. Except he knows that and can be expected to emulate it...I'm an over-the-top guy. We know this. And as scum, there is NO WAY I would make jokes about dayvigging and hammering and voting for Hydrad and people being stoned (as in drunk, not being killed by getting hit by thrown stones). But GG, everyone! This game was a lot of fun.
I think this is overdoing it.
And yeah, I didn't mention stuff about faust and Haddock and yuma and iguana and oh, everyone else. I linked what I felt like linking.
The method that I had for the linking is primarily what stuck out to me. Your EgorK vote today seemed out of place. I checked it out. It checked out.
Your vote on me checks out.
LIke, seriously, look at that e reread of me, then take even a cursory look at my posts, and tell me that's genuine.
LIke, seriously, look at that e reread of me, then take even a cursory look at my posts, and tell me that's genuine.
^cursory look
{wow, that looks genuine}
Several people vocally opposed lynching e, while several people have vocally supported lynching RR. Plus noone else had voted e in a while.
@Haddock : What makes you think e wasn't getting lynched ? He's waymore likely than RR to be lynched, and mroe importantly he'll flip scum, that seems relevant.
LIke, seriously, look at that e reread of me, then take even a cursory look at my posts, and tell me that's genuine.
^cursory look
{wow, that looks genuine}
I'm guessing that's a joke ?
Because if you really did that, you have bigger blinders on than I though.
Well yeah, I get that town!e's in a situation where he has to push me, but in that case you just say it. Feeling pressure to make an actual case to justify self-preservation is scummy too, you can add that to reasons to lynch e.
Im going to leave my vote on e for a while, but if noone else moves to him I will put it elsewhere. Was going to say back to RR, but igu makes something of a point, hydrad is a good option.
Teproc, can you give me the case on e in more detail? Or even just link to your most recent version of it? I've seen it all over the place. In particular, I haven't been so impressed with the "too townie to be town" argument, if that's still a thing.
The one post Haddock mentions where e said he knew he should have hammered Egor when he had the chance looks scummy, yeah, but that's all I've seen. But Hydrad has made like 6 of those posts.
Teproc, can you give me the case on e in more detail? Or even just link to your most recent version of it? I've seen it all over the place. In particular, I haven't been so impressed with the "too townie to be town" argument, if that's still a thing.
The one post Haddock mentions where e said he knew he should have hammered Egor when he had the chance looks scummy, yeah, but that's all I've seen. But Hydrad has made like 6 of those posts.
His recent reread on me and my post in reaction to it should be enough. It's in the previous page.
Teproc, for PoE D2 lynch pool to just 4 people you have to have a lot of town, non null reads. And if by PoE you meant to include only scummy and not null people, then why when queried what scummy about them you reference to PoE?
Teproc is sounding more town to me now.
I wasn't on the mislynch or on the wagon on town that got to L-1 (silver). Clearly I must be scum.
At this point, i'm available to answer questions and will get on any alternative wagon (though i think I've made my preferences rather clear in that matter). But really, I'm mostly going to shut up and let you guys figure it out. You will.At what point would you claim?
At this point, i'm available to answer questions and will get on any alternative wagon (though i think I've made my preferences rather clear in that matter). But really, I'm mostly going to shut up and let you guys figure it out. You will.At what point would you claim?
What if the day is about to end and you have the most votes on you? Will you claim an hour before the deadline? 30 minutes?At this point, i'm available to answer questions and will get on any alternative wagon (though i think I've made my preferences rather clear in that matter). But really, I'm mostly going to shut up and let you guys figure it out. You will.At what point would you claim?
I will decide wether or not to claim at L-1 with intent to hammer.
I hadn't considered that. Deadline is tomorrow right ? Hopefully we can avoid that and get a lynch in today.Yes, the deadline is tomorrow at 3:00 AM forum time. I'll stay up for it.
No you wouldn't. You would say "well, Haddock is definitely more likely to flip scum than me" and vote Haddock.
I've been int hat situation before, and of course you don't start making up cases. That's terrible. HOw do you tell town apart from scum when town starts making up cases, that's insane.
You wouldn't do a dishonest reread yuma, not as town. Or I hope you wouldn't, because that's insanely anti-town.
I suggest you reread Chocolate Factory, if that's the relevant game to you.
I can't see anyone else voting for e at this point. Shame, but there you go.
I will move to vote: Hydrad and I think everyone else on e should find somewhere else to put their vote too.
As has been noted, deadline is closer than it looks thanks to timezones.
No, Hydrad is scummy. Yuma, I think your reads are janky.
RR I could go for.
WW's result?No, Hydrad is scummy. Yuma, I think your reads are janky.
RR I could go for.
My reads might be off, I will admit that (does that include my strongest town read on you?)
But I think my logic is sound for why we shouldn't lynch Hydrad today with the information we have available. it is the same logic that I have been stating on waiting until we have more information about WW.
Am I totally off base on this. I keep posting my reasons and then no one contradicts them (or at least doesn't explain why it is wrong), but continue to vote for Hydrad...
So maybe it makes Hydrad ever so slightly more likely to be town, but not by much.
I don't detect my own targeting, obviously.
The Motion Detector, sometimes known as a variant of Reporter, is an informative role that can target a player at Night and learn if any actions were performed by or on that player, but not what the actions were or who else they involved.
I specifically asked Ashersky, because, indeed, it would make my role completely useless. I detect anything other than my target. So if I'm the only one to target my target (and my target takes no actions), I receive that there was no motion detected. Which is what I got from Hydrad.
You wouldn't do a dishonest reread yuma, not as town. Or I hope you wouldn't, because that's insanely anti-town.
It wouldn't be a dishonest reread. It would be an attempt to find things that were scummy in X's play so that he got lynched and I didn't. Unless I was like a strictly negative utility role to town and knew, or believed, that he was a strong role I would try hard to get X lynched over me.
That is insanely pro-town to not get myself lynched when town and try to get someone else of unknown alignment lynched instead.
I suggest you reread Chocolate Factory, if that's the relevant game to you.
That was like 2 years ago. It holds no water anymore and your persistence in trying to continually reference it hurts your case more than it helps. Tell me something recent. Tell me something worth knowing about. Not a game only 3 people remember from two years ago.
yuma : I disagree about the WW/Hydrad thing because of contigencies. I agree Hydrad is relatively unlikely to be town if WW is town, and that WW is relatively unlikely to be scum... but it's still acontigency and therefore not very reliable.
Bottom line is : HYdrad is scummy (to me). The WW thing makes him a less desireable lynch than he would be normally, but still an ok lynch to me.
Still not doin it.Thanks bro.
The only thing that makes me happy is that people can't accurately read me.
It does.The only thing that makes me happy is that people can't accurately read me.
That shouldn't make you happy.
Then I am happy you are getting lynched.It does.The only thing that makes me happy is that people can't accurately read me.
That shouldn't make you happy.
That shouldn't make you happy.Then I am happy you are getting lynched.It does.The only thing that makes me happy is that people can't accurately read me.
That shouldn't make you happy.
That shouldn't make you happy.Whatever... Bro!
Dayvig: YumaThat shouldn't make you happy.Whatever... Bro!
Intent to dayvig Yuma.
I have follow through, guys!!Intent to dayvig Yuma.
???
Vote: RRGG
RR, unvote yourself and then explain whether your dayvig is a serious notion.Unvote
I wasn't serious.
Vote: RRYou sly dog.
Vote: RRGG
I lied.RR, unvote yourself and then explain whether your dayvig is a serious notion.Unvote
I wasn't serious.
Why would you auto-lynch me?Vote: RRGG
Name your scummates and I might not auto-lynch you the next game we are in together...
Why would you auto-lynch me?Cause you didn't tell us who your scummates were...?
If I was scum, is that cheating? Remember Lost Mafia?Why would you auto-lynch me?Cause you didn't tell us who your scummates were...?
If I was scum, is that cheating? Remember Lost Mafia?Why would you auto-lynch me?Cause you didn't tell us who your scummates were...?
What if I tell you one real partner and two townies? That might be smart if I was scum.If I was scum, is that cheating? Remember Lost Mafia?Why would you auto-lynch me?Cause you didn't tell us who your scummates were...?
That was cheating because he sent out a PM. You could tell us who they were... but would we believe you? WIFOM...
I am mostly joking with you here. Sometimes tone gets lost... Mostly joking though...
Is he lynched?No, Egor revoted.
Is he lynched?Don't lynch me though
Is he lynched?
Stoooooooop.Is he lynched?
He will be if you vote for him.
On one hand Avengs game without Iron Man as actual flavor (and not provided fake claim) would be not really complete. On the other hand last string of posts by RR seemed scummy. So I am ok with my voteScum got assigned flavor.
Seriously?Yep. Good game guys! Join Board Game Mafia so that we can have more Mafia In our lives!
Calculating the probability that RR is trolling here...No, I like to when people tell me 'oh well, RR, you played well.' Even though this was a pretty lousy performance on my part this game.
I guess I should be more upset, but I'm not. I don't want to reveal too much, but you guys (the town) is sooooo screwed.Seriously?Yep. Good game guys! Join Board Game Mafia so that we can have more Mafia In our lives!
PPE
Gauge everyone's reactions, it's my last gift to the town who stabbed me in the back.Except maybe not everyone who stabbed me in the back was town! Oooohhhh!
Why is it unlikely?
I am going to have limited access until Tuesday, as I'm moving across the U.S.
That said, I have something to claim.
At the beginning of last night I was notified that I have been vanillaised.
I am going to have limited access until Tuesday, as I'm moving across the U.S.
That said, I have something to claim.
At the beginning of last night I was notified that I have been vanillaised.
I am going to have limited access until Tuesday, as I'm moving across the U.S.
That said, I have something to claim.
At the beginning of last night I was notified that I have been vanillaised.
... were you vanilla before?
Okay. I am Ghost Rider. I was a one shot bulletproof hero.
Okay. I am Ghost Rider. I was a one shot bulletproof hero.
Hm.. are you certain you were informed that your shot was used up?
Vote: teproc
Should have stayed here. I totally lynched RR for survival while thinking he maybe would turn scum but not confident.
WW, faust. Results please
Okay. I am Ghost Rider. I was a one shot bulletproof hero.
Well uh... I confirm WW's result I guess.
Well uh... I confirm WW's result I guess.
I have no idea how people think this means fast targeted e. In fact had faust targeted e, it would directly contradict WW's result, unless I'm misunderstanding something.
I need people on the RR wagon to explain themselves... why did they think that was a good idea (not that I thik it was awful; I too suspected RR, but the way the lynch happened was weird).
I am Daredevil, the Motion Detector
I can target a person each night and learn if they either took an action or were a target of an action (other than mine). I don't learn which one it was, or their target/source.
Don't see a reason to delay my result.
I targeted e, no motion detected.
There's also yuma, though I still think he's town. Annoying, but town. And there's Ampharos, whom I specifically reread during the night and concluded he was town. His reads are constantly moving in a way that feels ery organic, I think most of the suspicion he got was a playstyle thing, he's very self-aware, like silver actually when he started playing here.
@Iguana, what exactly were you told? Did ash say anything other than "vanillaised"?
But faust confirmed WW's targeting?
Faust, can you clarify a bit more?
Are we in MyLo?
Explains it how?
Explains it how?
Faust seen your kill of silver N1, you lied about targeting Hydrad. You target e with your role (but not faction kill), which faust confirms. Teproc targeted e and you failed to report that
Explains it how?
Faust seen your kill of silver N1, you lied about targeting Hydrad. You target e with your role (but not faction kill), which faust confirms. Teproc targeted e and you failed to report that
Why would I fail to report that? How does it benefit me to lie here?
The most likely to me is that faust didn't mean to say he tracked you, just that he didn't target e and thus couldn't contradict you. But we'll see..
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
What's this now ?
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
What's this now ?
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
What's this now ?
You're claiming that I didn't
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
What's this now ?
You're claiming that I didn't
That's incorrect. I'm saying your result is wrong. I have no idea if you targeted e or not because I have no idea what your role is.
More to the point : if anyone knows who you targeted, it's you, so... why ask ?
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
What's this now ?
You're claiming that I didn't
That's incorrect. I'm saying your result is wrong. I have no idea if you targeted e or not because I have no idea what your role is.
More to the point : if anyone knows who you targeted, it's you, so... why ask ?
Have you been reading this game?
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
What's this now ?
You're claiming that I didn't
That's incorrect. I'm saying your result is wrong. I have no idea if you targeted e or not because I have no idea what your role is.
More to the point : if anyone knows who you targeted, it's you, so... why ask ?
I would like to know if I indeed targeted e.
What's this now ?
You're claiming that I didn't
That's incorrect. I'm saying your result is wrong. I have no idea if you targeted e or not because I have no idea what your role is.
More to the point : if anyone knows who you targeted, it's you, so... why ask ?
Have you been reading this game?
Yes. Have you ?
If you were town, you would know for sure who you targeted. The things in question would be :
a) Is Teproc scum trying to frame me ?
b) Did faust track me ?
How is "did I target e" a relevant question for you to ask here ?
Well. If WW got redirected would he know?
Well. If WW got redirected would he know?
No, but it's not like the scum Bus Driver (or whatever) is going to claim to save WW, is he ?
PPE : Semantics matter. Obviously I guessed that was your intent, but the framing of it isn't irrelevant. Town!you knows what he knows, and is also quite unsure of faust's alignment. I don't know that it's an incredibly strong point against you, but it does indicate me that you're not approaching this the way I'd expect town!you to approach it.
But faust confirmed WW's targeting?
Faust, can you clarify a bit more?
Right, faust is a ninja, blanked on that.
Fine with massclaim I suppose. It's only Hydrad, Ampharos and Haddock right ?
The Hs should claim before Ampharos. Probably Haddock first since we already theoretically have something on Hydrad ?
@iguana, you're sure you can't provide us with any more flavour than that? I'm looking for a specific flavour word from you here. Not "vanillaised".
Haddock should go first, we should all agree to that.
The Hydrad, then Amph.
It would be nice if we could do this a little quicker. The order of the claim frankly isn't that important to me, so let's get it over with, because with the holidays it's going to be hard enough to get anything going on this day.
The order of the claim frankly isn't that important to me, so let's get it over with,I understand your frustration here, but try to see this from my perspective.
Though if it helps to sweeten the pot I'll say that I'll lynch the one that doesn't claim first.Oh, gimme a break with that macho nonsense.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.:o
Looking back at before my softclaim, most people who haven't said anything yet have expressed a desire for me to claim first.This sentence makes no sense. It is supposed to say
I'm more concerned with moving forward than with the particular order of you/Hydrad, honestly.OK.
Unless Haddock has good reason to claim second his recent play was very scummy. We'll seeWell obviously I have a PR. Thats a good enough reason for me to want to claim second.
That's a lot of power.Too much I think. Somebody's lying imo.
Stimme 3.3:
WW (1): Hydrad
Haddock (1): 2.7
faust (2): EgorK, Haddock
nicht an der Abstimmung (5): Ampharos, WW, faust, iguanaiguana, Teproc
Mit 9 Leben, dauert es 5 bis lynch.
Tag 3 wird am 01.15 pm 29 Dezember enden.
Teproc, is your redacted modifier positive or negative?
... no one else has been vanillaized? I guess a VT that is targetted with a Vanillaizer role wouldn't get any notification?
... no one else has been vanillaized? I guess a VT that is targetted with a Vanillaizer role wouldn't get any notification?I want to hear one more time from igu here. This was all the weird interaction earlier today, I think maybe igu thought that the webbing was him being vanillaised. If he has definitely been vanillaised as well, we need to know. but my assumption here is that there is no vanillaiser.
Really, though.. there has to be either a Redirector-type role, or Faust is lying.Well, I'm less confident after teproc's PR count. But it felt like too many PRs. And faust had by far the weakest PR claim.
People voting Faust, I'm curious to hear the narratives.
My PR is far weaker than Faust's.But your claim is stronger.
My PR is far weaker than Faust's.But your claim is stronger.
The timing of faust's claim is the only thing it has going for it, everything else is weaksauce.
The narrative is fairly simple. Scum, under pressure, decides to go for the bold fakeclaim, relying on the fact that it's so off the wall and ballsy to make it seem like an unlikely scum play.
Same way as he's theoretically escaping now. Claims some redirection nonsense must have happened.
there also is significant upside in having him alive anyway, so I don't think he should be lynched today.This you might have to explain to me. I havent thought that much about it, but you seem to be saying that there are advantages to keeping faust alive today even if he were superlikely scum. I dont get it.
Stimme 3.3:
WW (1): Hydrad
Haddock (1): 2.7
faust (2): EgorK, Haddock
nicht an der Abstimmung (5): Ampharos, WW, faust, iguanaiguana, Teproc
Mit 9 Leben, dauert es 5 bis lynch.
Tag 3 wird am 01.15 pm 29 Dezember enden.
Also, if there is a case on me, I would like to hear it... I don't see much other than "huh, faust is scummy" with no explanation.
Just looking at the numbers, there's most likely one or two of the VTs that are scum. I highly doubt none of us are. Which one to attack though, is more problematic. And obviously we've got someone lying in the PRs. Personally, I think shooting for a VT is better, and more likely to hit scum. If we hit right, we can infer a lot from there.
Still thinking on my vote.
Lots to say but it needs to wait for tonight. I was vanillaised n1 and webbed n2 but I wasn't notified until beginning of n1 for vanillaise end of n2 for web.
Need to put some thought into
he lynch but my gut says Faust right now.
More when I get home tonight.
"Man, that guy is huge," Barry said to no one in particular. The group had gathered again in STARLabs, with Cisco and Caitlin joining them. "and...green?"
"Man, do you think he's related to Grodd?" Cisco was too excited, considering the situation.
Oliver looked nonplussed. "Green is my color." That was all he had to say.
"Anyway, anyone know who this guy is?" Barry zipped over to him and tried to drag him down to the particle accelerator prison, but he was just too heavy. He started shrinking, turning more and more human looking as he did.
Yuma died during the night. He was the Incredible Hulk, the Random Vigilante.
I am going to have limited access until Tuesday, as I'm moving across the U.S.
That said, I have something to claim.
At the beginning of last night I was notified that I have been vanillaised.
@Iguana, what exactly were you told? Did ash say anything other than "vanillaised"?
At the beginning of the night I was just notified that I was vanillaised. It didn't say anything else.
@iguana, you're sure you can't provide us with any more flavour than that? I'm looking for a specific flavour word from you here. Not "vanillaised".
Um, okay yeah. The message says that I lost my power last night.
Kinda wondering how you know about the specific language?
Lots to say but it needs to wait for tonight. I was vanillaised n1 and webbed n2 but I wasn't notified until beginning of n1 for vanillaise end of n2 for web.
Need to put some thought into
he lynch but my gut says Faust right now.
More when I get home tonight.
Beginning of n2 for vanillaise*
Even if I take iguana's post as saying "yeah I did get some flavour thing, how do you know about it", that still makes very little sense... it would be pretty obvious to iguana how Haddock would know about such a thing (and was pretty obvious to everyone I'd expect).I can only assume that he was at first intending only to claim the vanillaising, for whatever reason.
I don't know what to make of this...
I'm really not sure I can see thor as a VT. That just seems kinda crazy. I know not everyone can have a PR, but really, ghost rider gets a BP and thor nothing? Crappy argument, I'm aware, but still.
... why would you assume specifically Jailkeep?
I was also told about being webbed at the end of the night. I figured that the webbing came from spiderman, and made the assumption that it was a jailkeep.
But you just said this:I was also told about being webbed at the end of the night. I figured that the webbing came from spiderman, and made the assumption that it was a jailkeep.
But you just said this:I was also told about being webbed at the end of the night. I figured that the webbing came from spiderman, and made the assumption that it was a jailkeep.
What I meant was that it seemed like the most likely thing is that it was spiderman, and I was jailkept. He's called the "obvious jailkeep, and yeah, it was not too hard to figure out. Is there any possible way where I could have known this with 100% certainty? Because I did not.
But you just said this:I was also told about being webbed at the end of the night. I figured that the webbing came from spiderman, and made the assumption that it was a jailkeep.
What I meant was that it seemed like the most likely thing is that it was spiderman, and I was jailkept. He's called the "obvious jailkeep, and yeah, it was not too hard to figure out. Is there any possible way where I could have known this with 100% certainty? Because I did not.
No, why would you think Jailkeep is more likely than, say, Roleblock?
Yeah ok.
vote: iguana
It's not that this is completely incoherent, but his claim is altogether fishy. One-Shot Bulletproof seems too vanilla for this game, it's the only claimed roled that doesn't fit the "typicalPR with some modifier" pattern so far, it sounds like the kind of thing that you would come up with based on a fake flavor claim too.
I don't buy that town!iguana misunderstands what Haddock was talking about earlier.
You know there are setups with town rb?
Are you saying Roleblocker can't be town?
scum!iguana you mean ?
iguana said something like "how did you know about the flavor" in response to iguana. Which seems to me like he was trying to appear as if he knew what Haddock was talking about, but didn't... wait, scum!iguana got webbed too, that doesn't work.
Hm. Ok, the whole webbed thing is whatever. Still not a huge fan of the claim, he's part of my lynch pool. Probably prefer the actual VTs at this point though.
vote: Hydrad
Still need to reread some people... going to be tough though, with the holidays.
PPE : Roleblockers are scum slightly more often than town, but overall it's alignment-neutral.
Huh? WW I don't understand your last post.
Igu case seems weak here, what does igu gain by pretending not to understand what was going on? In any case, probably he did understand, he just didn't want to give too many details out.
PPE. Several.
Meh. I don't find the Jailkeeper thing particularly significant. And even then it gets back to your earlier point : why is scum!iguana more likely than town!iguana to do that ?
e claimed VT (Captain America). I don't think he confirmed the webbing yet.
e claimed VT (Captain America). I don't think he confirmed the webbing yet.
Captain America
VT
I was webbed N1
Roleblocker, vanillaiser and redirection seems severely unlikely. We have no evidence for rb at all.Meh. I don't find the Jailkeeper thing particularly significant. And even then it gets back to your earlier point : why is scum!iguana more likely than town!iguana to do that ?
e claimed VT (Captain America). I don't think he confirmed the webbing yet.
Because maybe scum has a Roleblocker.
I thoughg you were town and faust was relatively likely to be NKed. I also thought e was scum, and scum results are much, much better than town results.I actually think this is pretty weak. It hadn't occurred to me that Faust and ww were obvious cop targets. Admittedly my jk targets haven't worked out great, but I don't see any convincing reason why I wouldn't have copped one of the two claimed investigators here.
Vote: egorkReasons?
Sorry things are super busy. I totally believe teproc. No way he backs off me the way he does without hard evidenceWell, if he's scum I think you are as well, so this doesnt really help. Dont want to lynch him today though I dont think.
Vote: egorkReasons?
Yeah ok.
vote: iguana
It's not that this is completely incoherent, but his claim is altogether fishy. One-Shot Bulletproof seems too vanilla for this game, it's the only claimed roled that doesn't fit the "typicalPR with some modifier" pattern so far, it sounds like the kind of thing that you would come up with based on a fake flavor claim too.
I don't buy that town!iguana misunderstands what Haddock was talking about earlier.
Question: Assume scum has redirecting powers. Why is there no indication of them being used last night?
Bulletproof isn't what I'd call a typical PR, in fact I don't think I've ever seen a full bulletproof in any normal game. But I suppose it does fit that structure. I forgot WW did not, that's true.
I'm saying "One-Shot Bulletproof" isn't very specific, flavor-wise. Like, you're a NInja Tracker even though Ninja is unlikely to be useful, because Black Widow = ninja. I'm a Macho Cop even though that's mostly irrelevant (it's not like jailkeeping a cop is that great anyway), because that fits my flavor.
One-Shot Bulletproof sunds like the kind of thing scum could easily come up with looking at flavor names.
Bulletproof isn't what I'd call a typical PR, in fact I don't think I've ever seen a full bulletproof in any normal game. But I suppose it does fit that structure. I forgot WW did not, that's true.
I'm saying "One-Shot Bulletproof" isn't very specific, flavor-wise. Like, you're a NInja Tracker even though Ninja is unlikely to be useful, because Black Widow = ninja. I'm a Macho Cop even though that's mostly irrelevant (it's not like jailkeeping a cop is that great anyway), because that fits my flavor.
One-Shot Bulletproof sunds like the kind of thing scum could easily come up with looking at flavor names.
I don't buy that because iguana has recently been in a game (RMM28) where scum was almost lynched over claiming one-shot BP.
ash actually mentioned that it fit very well, too.
By no means am I trusting all the claims today. I'm just saying at least one scum must be among the claimed VTs, so we might as well give PRs a night to do something since we're not a lylo, and then evaluate given what happens.
By no means am I trusting all the claims today. I'm just saying at least one scum must be among the claimed VTs, so we might as well give PRs a night to do something since we're not a lylo, and then evaluate given what happens.
You keep saying that and yet never actually evaluate night actions...
This is good. I need to take the time to actually read this. But makes me much more suspicious of teproc.
Because scum knows I am town. What better way to get me on their side then "cop" me and get my town result?
People voting for Teproc: do you agree that if he is scum the e is also?
If so, why not vote for e instead? Then there is no risk of cop killing.
Lynching a VT still seems better to me though.
People voting for Teproc: do you agree that if he is scum the e is also?
If so, why not vote for e instead? Then there is no risk of cop killing.
Lynching a VT still seems better to me though.
This is good. I need to take the time to actually read this. But makes me much more suspicious of teproc.
Because scum knows I am town. What better way to get me on their side then "cop" me and get my town result?
So as scummy. Much wow.
*If Teproc is scum, e is probably town.
*If Teproc is scum, e is probably town.
I don't buy this, actually. I think Teproc would claim an innocent result on his partner precisely because everyone will make the "he wouldn't link with his partner like this" argument.
Though, I guess that line of thinking does provide motivation to lynch e over Teproc.
*If Teproc is scum, e is probably town.
I don't buy this, actually. I think Teproc would claim an innocent result on his partner precisely because everyone will make the "he wouldn't link with his partner like this" argument.
Though, I guess that line of thinking does provide motivation to lynch e over Teproc.
Actually, you're right. Claiming an innocent result on, say, your mafia goon partner who didn't perform the NK... pretty safe.
But what about their big standoff yesterday? That didn't seem faked to me.
*If Teproc is scum, e is probably town.
I don't buy this, actually. I think Teproc would claim an innocent result on his partner precisely because everyone will make the "he wouldn't link with his partner like this" argument.
Though, I guess that line of thinking does provide motivation to lynch e over Teproc.
Actually, you're right. Claiming an innocent result on, say, your mafia goon partner who didn't perform the NK... pretty safe.
But what about their big standoff yesterday? That didn't seem faked to me.
That's true.
Also, there are not multiple 'innocent' results on e; only Teproc. My result was that motion was detected, so e could have performed an action.
Fausts result also exists, saying e performed no action. Which isn't exactly an innocent result, but it carries as much weight as wws result about hydrad (at least in the scenario where Faust is town).
Teproc could also actually be a cop and there are two scum teams.This is spectacularly unlikely, we surely would have seen the extra kill.
Teproc could also actually be a cop and there are two scum teams.This is spectacularly unlikely, we surely would have seen the extra kill.
more holiday posts.
This is interesting though I'm really curious if the Teproc wagon will actually build up. I don't think I've ever seen people turn on a claimed cop like this.
more holiday posts.
This is interesting though I'm really curious if the Teproc wagon will actually build up. I don't think I've ever seen people turn on a claimed cop like this.
You don't have to wonder if you just vote him.
more holiday posts.
This is interesting though I'm really curious if the Teproc wagon will actually build up. I don't think I've ever seen people turn on a claimed cop like this.
You don't have to wonder if you just vote him.
well I kinda wonder... just because I don't feel super comfortable lynching apotential coppartner
Why would scum want to kill me last night ? Remember when I was a leading wagon 12 hours before deadline ? I hadn't claimed at that point, there was no way scum would kill me. Yuma and faust were the obvious ones, then Ampharos and WW were vaguely possible.
I'm not taking advantage of anything... I don't think you're scum because of a few inconsistencies, I think you're scum because your claim seems too Vanilla for this game, and I do get the feeling you're trying to be vague about stuff so that you can adjust your story as stuff comes up.
If you think you're an easy mislynch, let me tell you : you're not. I highly doubt you're getting lynched oday, but I'll try anyway.
Well, Egor will go Teproc over himself I'm sure; I don't think Faust is viable.
e was set on Teproc yesterday.
Has Amph expressed interest in anyone? From what I recall he's mostly just dissuaded form Hydrad.
I'd much prefer VT lynch to Teproc. Actually let's try Vote: Hydrad
The vagueness was in your response to Haddock yeah. He's asking if you got flavor and your answer is "um... I don't know what you're talking about but I definitely know, but why are you even asking ?" That's trying to get attentionoff you onto the other player, not trying to protect a PR.
I didn't think he was likely to be spiderman at the time, because the vanillaising happened at the beginning of the night, and I wasn't (and could not have been) notified of being webbed until the end of the night.
QuoteI didn't think he was likely to be spiderman at the time, because the vanillaising happened at the beginning of the night, and I wasn't (and could not have been) notified of being webbed until the end of the night.
I don't understand the "because" part of this.
Huh?
Also from yours VP I should be town now if Teproc is town ;)
Huh?
Also from yours VP I should be town now if Teproc is town ;)
Could do it for towncred though.
You know what, we could lynch faust. Obviously you guys don't like the idea of keeping potential PRs alive, so let's lynch the one who's probably scum, kthxbye.
Also he's aready voting for me, so at least I'm not committing suicide.
|b]vote: faust[/b]
If I make i Hydrad v me, town!Hydrad should lynch me. Even if he believes my claim, I'm an unknown quantity.This logic doesn't make sense to me. If town!Hydrad is convinced you're town, then he should let himself be lynched since he's a VT. That assumes he's right, but you have to work on the assumption that you are correct pretty often in mafia.
If I make i Hydrad v me, town!Hydrad should lynch me. Even if he believes my claim, I'm an unknown quantity.This logic doesn't make sense to me. If town!Hydrad is convinced you're town, then he should let himself be lynched since he's a VT. That assumes he's right, but you have to work on the assumption that you are correct pretty often in mafia.
I can't get over WW voting for me. He's usually good at reading me, it's baffling.
If I make i Hydrad v me, town!Hydrad should lynch me. Even if he believes my claim, I'm an unknown quantity.This logic doesn't make sense to me. If town!Hydrad is convinced you're town, then he should let himself be lynched since he's a VT. That assumes he's right, but you have to work on the assumption that you are correct pretty often in mafia.
What's the highest percent of certainy you cna have that someone is town ? Without night actions ?
I'd put it somewhere around 75%. I don't care what you're claiming to be, I'd rather lynch an unknown quantity than have it be me. At this point, you put anyone at L-1 and I'll hammer. Well, ok, probably not e and Ampharos, unless it's like 1 minute to deadline because Godfather/something similar could exist.
Who else is voting for me ?My assumption is that if a vanilla over exists it is delayed somehow. The timing of igu being informed about vanillaising makes me think that it's an action that was performed at the end of n1 which igu was told about beginning of n2. Someone could have been vanillaised n2 and we wouldn't know about it yet.
Ampharos... well he's going back to his gut read, fine I guess.
WW is wrong and he's been right too much to back down, annoying.
faust might be scum, otherwise... why am I scum again ? Ah yes, my claim. I guess so. I don't know what I can do about that... I claimed when I did because I thought I had caught scum. I hadn't, but I think I would have been forced to claim by a massclaim anyway (though I'd have opposed it). I don't know what more I can say... I think you'll find if you reread me that my play is that of a townie who doesn't want to be NKed and ended up going a bit too far into the other direction.
iguana I can work with, because this feels like OMGUS more than anything else. I guess I didn't answer on the vagueness thing : I understand there's a town!narrative for that, but the way it ended up put you in a very comfortable position if you're scum, because you got to react to stuff. Not muchyou can doabout that, sure, but there it is. As for Vanillaiser, I can eeasily see a scenario where a scum Vanillaiser exists and you claim that because he's only targeted VTs... actually I can't easily see that, why wouldn't you vanillaise faust ?
Yeah, why wouldn't you vanillaise faust if there's a vanillaiser out there ? Like, how does that make any sense at all. I think this must mean one of {iguana, faust} is scum at least right ?
Because either
a) they're both scum, great, let's lynch one of them
b) iguana is town and there is a Vanillaiser, in which case faust is scum because there's no way he doesn't get Vanillaised. Not getting killed makes sense (yuma was never getting lynched, faust might), but Vanillaising some random unclaimed townie instead ?
c) iguana is making the Vanillaiser up and faust is town. Maybe. Pretty creative, but maybe. Goes against my scum narrative for iguana's claim too.
d) They're both town. That doesn't work, because faust should have been vanillaised.
WHy aren't we lynching faust ?
*vanillaiser, not vanilla overWho else is voting for me ?My assumption is that if a vanilla over exists it is delayed somehow. The timing of igu being informed about vanillaising makes me think that it's an action that was performed at the end of n1 which igu was told about beginning of n2. Someone could have been vanillaised n2 and we wouldn't know about it yet.
Ampharos... well he's going back to his gut read, fine I guess.
WW is wrong and he's been right too much to back down, annoying.
faust might be scum, otherwise... why am I scum again ? Ah yes, my claim. I guess so. I don't know what I can do about that... I claimed when I did because I thought I had caught scum. I hadn't, but I think I would have been forced to claim by a massclaim anyway (though I'd have opposed it). I don't know what more I can say... I think you'll find if you reread me that my play is that of a townie who doesn't want to be NKed and ended up going a bit too far into the other direction.
iguana I can work with, because this feels like OMGUS more than anything else. I guess I didn't answer on the vagueness thing : I understand there's a town!narrative for that, but the way it ended up put you in a very comfortable position if you're scum, because you got to react to stuff. Not muchyou can doabout that, sure, but there it is. As for Vanillaiser, I can eeasily see a scenario where a scum Vanillaiser exists and you claim that because he's only targeted VTs... actually I can't easily see that, why wouldn't you vanillaise faust ?
Yeah, why wouldn't you vanillaise faust if there's a vanillaiser out there ? Like, how does that make any sense at all. I think this must mean one of {iguana, faust} is scum at least right ?
Because either
a) they're both scum, great, let's lynch one of them
b) iguana is town and there is a Vanillaiser, in which case faust is scum because there's no way he doesn't get Vanillaised. Not getting killed makes sense (yuma was never getting lynched, faust might), but Vanillaising some random unclaimed townie instead ?
c) iguana is making the Vanillaiser up and faust is town. Maybe. Pretty creative, but maybe. Goes against my scum narrative for iguana's claim too.
d) They're both town. That doesn't work, because faust should have been vanillaised.
WHy aren't we lynching faust ?
Haddock, thoughts on EgorK declining to hammer ?Well. You could both be scum. Or he could be doing it for town cred. If I were scum in his position (and assuming you're town) I think I would hold the hammer until near deadline so I looked like town forced into hammering to get a lynch through.
Yeah, why wouldn't you vanillaise faust if there's a vanillaiser out there ? Like, how does that make any sense at all. I think this must mean one of {iguana, faust} is scum at least right ?
The other possibility is that it's a one shot. I don't think scum would waste a one shot like that though.
That makes me feel better.Glad to be of service!
| D1 main wagons at their peak in sequence (5+ votes): silverspawn (6): yuma, WW, hydrad, faust, iguana, awalcus yuma (5): Awaclus, Teproc, faust, Ampharos, RR Ampharos (5): ss, Hydrad, 2.7, yuma, WW Awaclus (7): faust, WW, iguana, 2.7, Haddock, RR, yuma | D2 main wagons at their peak in sequence (4+ votes): faust (4): Teproc, Ampharos, iguanaiguana, WW WW (4): faust, 2.7, Teproc, EgorK egork (5): Haddock, yuma, Teproc, Hydrad, iguana Teproc (4): Ampharos, yuma, 2.7, Hydrad RR (6): EgorK, Haddock, iguanaiguana, Teproc, yuma, 2.7 |
That makes me feel better.Glad to be of service!
That makes me feel better.Glad to be of service!
Are you though ?
I'll get back to vote: Egork. I'm not going to be very available tomorrow, and it looks like the most likely vote to save me.
PPE : I was just saying you're not really of service because you're making him feel better about lynching me, which is bad. It was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but humour is not exactly my forte.
I'll get back to vote: Egork. I'm not going to be very available tomorrow, and it looks like the most likely vote to save me.
PPE : I was just saying you're not really of service because you're making him feel better about lynching me, which is bad. It was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but humour is not exactly my forte.
Ah, and I was taking his to be tongue-in-cheek. Sarcasm is hard on the internet :P
I'm following now :)
well that is enough encouragement....
So I am a Random Vig aka The Hulk. I have no control over my power except whether or not to instigate it at night. If I do... someone other than me dies, but I can't choose who.
Because of this up until we are at 50/50 with non-town aligned roles this is going to be a negative utility as more often than not this is going to hit town and even at the end game is just as likely to hit town as mafia. (5 alive, 2 scum, 2 town that aren't me, 1 town that is me).
I don't know if claiming is the right course here, but this isn't really a role that I feel super strongly about keeping super secret from mafia.
Honestly my main purpose is to get people to think that I am townie because this just isn't a role that makes any sense to fake claim regardless of alignment (and certainly doesn't make any sense as a scum role) and maybe... just maybe there is a way to get this power to be more effective via co-ordination somehow. I don't know... maybe there is some sort of role that can non-randomize me?? (if you exist obviously don't claim) That sounds really RMM, but who knows what ash comes up with in these crazy setups of his...
It absolutely makes sense as a scum role, not as mafia but as SK.
You claiming was definitely the right thing to do, and probably what ash intended. It puts us in a very interesting situation. I don't think we should lynch you day 1, I'll say that.
@yuma : I thought it was compulsive for some reason, in which case lynching you day 1 was a very relevant option. That changes thing, makes your purpose less clear to me... seems the right play if you're telling the truth would be to never use your power, and that's not very ash-like...
Thinking about it, I'm inclined to believe you. The flavor obviously fits great, and as you say, it'd put you in a rather precarious position if you're SK, though it could make sense for a bulletproof SK still (that'd be a little strong though).
It's not exactly negative utility before we're at 50/50, because the death of a town has benefit in the information it gives. Hard to quantify, but it's there.
Still negative utiity overall. Dead town is still bad for town.
Oooohhhh, Teproc quoted a moderator...
If nothing better comes up, we have to kill Yuma, right?
Hi all.
OK, people I've not played with yet...
vote: Ampharos
vote: e - I think?
vote: EgorK
vote: Teproc
Sorry, Teproc, the alphabet doesn't lie...
@Haddock : that's fine and all, but there's actual relevant staff to talk about. Thoughts on yuma's claim ?Forgive me for enjoying myself. :P
Seriously though, you're right, sorry. Well I'm inclined to believe it for now, if that's what you mean. I have no idea at all what we should do about it...
So RVS is over, huh? Thanks, yuma!
The role is interesting... it's crazy swingy, but I think part of that is balanced out by the fact that it's not compulsive.
Note that it is very very convenient as a scum fakeclaim. If you get caught targetting some obvtown player with a killing action, you can always say "I didn't know it would hit him!" That said, it's unusual and dangerous to claim for that exact reason... so I think I want to keep yuma alive tonight. I would advise some precaution though, something like yuma announces whether or not he shoots prior to each night.
Well my vote officially sucks!
<b> unvote </b> for now...
Where to go next? <b> Vote: Roadrunner </b> seems okay fir now.
woo I'm here!
Vote: e
anyways Its a good thing yuma got that role instead of me... I'd totally just roll the dice every night if I got it and hope for the best. I think it would be super fun.
As for believing the claim and stuff. I believe it for now. currently I can't think of as many good reasons why scum!yuma would claim it. but then maybe scum!yuma knew i would think that! noooo.
but ya I believe the claim for now.
I claim Iron ManI will claim with Yuma.
er, don't. claiming early is only a good idea if you have a specific reason for i.t
I don't like this. You see Yuma wanting to claim, then just go and claim (flavor) and never provide additional reasons.well that is enough encouragement....
So I am a Random Vig aka The Hulk. I have no control over my power except whether or not to instigate it at night. If I do... someone other than me dies, but I can't choose who.
....
Honestly my main purpose is to get people to think that I am townie because this just isn't a role that makes any sense to fake claim regardless of alignment
I agree. I see Yuma as town with this claim.(not using the PR during the night)
Are you telling us that you for sure are not using your power? Or will you. (Or maybe I haven't read that far down the thread yet). Because I don't want you to come back tomorrow after 5 people die overnight (obvious exaggeration) and just come out and say you decided to just use your role when you say you aren't going to.I would advise some precaution though, something like yuma announces whether or not he shoots prior to each night.
This guy knows what he is talking about here.I have already stated that I don't plan on using it until the end game anyone seeing me targeting someone until the end game can go ahead and just straight up lynch me as I don't think using it in the early or midgame is a good idea.
ok
....
Then there was a bunch of scumslip stuff, which is meh, then we havethis game is weird
vote: faust for not getting things moving
I don't like this post. Basically, trying to move us past a discussion that is being had by discrediting the ongoing discussion as pointless and not moving the game forward. While I agree that the conversation about scumslips is annoying, I think this effort at "getting things moving" without actually doing anything is scummy.but now the day has actually become productive! so that's great.
town reads on Hydrad, igu, and Awaclus. no scum reads though. that means PoE. PoE means that scum is Ampharos. vote: Ampharos. who even is this guy?
This is after a fun long Iguana/silverspawn back and forth. I think silverspawn comes out better, then switches randomly to Amphoras after that.
And that is where I am stopping my reread for the night. I will pick back up again tomorrow. Probably at night because I have a feeling work is going to be terrible. And long.
Okay, just read over everything for the 1st time.
Yuma: seems legit for now. Could be the boldest of bold fakeclaims, but usually that seems to come from players who've just had an exceptionally bad or frustrating game and want to shake things up with bold play. Yuma just finished modding. Who knows... maybe taking out mod frustration on us all? Nah... :P
Vote: Teproc I am at least 50% confident Teproc is scum, purely on feel. (I acknowledge I've never played with them before, and could be misreading style.)
I called Vig!
I'm going to
Vote: that Yuma uses his power if we lynch Town today
I don' t think scum!Yuma deliberately does that.
Why not ? Policy lynches basically never happen and he has his claim protecting him. I'd expect his likeliness of being lynched for this as pretty low (unfortunately).
Are you confident enough of this as scum to do something begging a policy lynch?
I'm not, but I'm the guy who doesn't even like fakeclaiming as scum, so...
There is a lot to re-read on Teproc. But there isn't anything that shows me he is a bad vote. In contrast, I reread EgorK yesterday and found that while his D1 play looked bad, his D2 play looked like town. D3 for Egor is similar. I do not like changing my vote to Egor.
Man this game is way too long. Day 1 was longer than most games.
Early Teproc asked a lot of questions. Lots of... surface interactions, if that makes sense. I can see it coming from a need to be active and do what he thinks he would do as town. Main thing early was a case on Iguana. Later, Teproc goes after Yuma (relating to Yuma's absence), I believe after Faust kind of paves the way. I found it kind of scummy from both of them. I have a hard time believing anyone actually found Yuma scummier for going off as he did.
I'll try to read more tomorrow.
Well, 3 lylos are bad, but who knows. Or you can vote Hydrad and then we'll have much more chances (if Hydrad is scum, that is)
Ah yes, that was town. Need that 3 lylos now then. Problem is, now there is no pressure on Teproc if he is indeed scum. But well, this game is so depressing I am more or less glad to be lynched
Fausts hammer does look scummy as hell to me assuming EgorK is indeed town. I can go with the idea of a Fausts/teproc team. But then my reads have been absolutely awful this game. Three consecutive mislynches. Christ. I should just stop.
Teproc just must be scum at this point, Fausts potentially with him. I don't think the third is necessarily Hydrad though. If Teproc is scum then his choice of who to cope might help us here.
Sorry amph, him being who? Me?
Well fair enough. I mean I keep thinking I'm basically an ic now that I've claimed. Which just isn't true I guess. And my reads are crappy anyway. Let's just lynch whoever is think is towniest. Guaranteed win.
I think teproc might be the better starting point.
As it happens that is a very good vote, but I do want to caution people against voting willy-nilly. This is (most likely lylo).
I investigated faust, he is scum. Shocking, I know, but I figured investigating anyone else was pointless as this day is going to be me v faust anyway.
Now I just have to convince people not to lynch me, and we should be able to win this.
vote: faust
And who are you claiming is the third scum? (Or, second and third scum, since you're not going to admit that you are one.)
I my little comment about yuma's play being null successfully baits yuma into suspecting me, I'll be very satisfied. That'd be the perfect amount of consistent suspicion coming from an important town voice (well, presumably town, but if he's scum it works too) to avoid a too-early NK.
Wait, no, he said he was waiting for something to happen, so it's probably not me. Damnit.
Macho Cop. Man. Usually I can at least hope Doctors exist, here they almost certainly do, and I emphatically do not want them to target me.
It just occured to me that faust is probably a PR. Well, either that or scum. But I think that's what's making him play this way, more laidback. The thing I'm failing at.
Sidenote : I'm not that convinced faust is town. But his play reminds me of what he did in that game with Mimes, where he succesfully passed for Mime (in my eyes at least) because he was Vig.
FWIW, in recent maifa history, the more "work" I do, the more likely I am to be scum. Hopefully some veterans (WW mainly will pick up on this and throw me some suspicion, so that I have a shot at survival.
I have no strong scumreads. It's a problem.
I'm hoping yuma is town and this wagon is what he needs to get back into it. If he persists, I do think that means he's scum.
Ampharos' paranoia is getting annoying.
If yuma comes to his senses, I'll be going after 2.7. He's trying very hard to replicate a reasonable town style, his town play is more off the cuff than this.
Better.
I have no idea what to make of Ampharos.
Well, now I know he's a VT if he's town, great job there.
How can faust think I'm so pro-town, I've barely made cases and a bunch of my posts have been fluff ? I've refrained from scumhunting more so many times in this game, like not making an actual case on e, not doing a reread of the people I'm unsure about etc.
I'm bad at this. I don't want to die. Please help me.
Maybe faust is a Tracker ?
This day is not going well overall. Way too much theory talk.
I just realized my PM seems to imply there's only one scum faction. Good to "know"
Ok, looks like I'm not a consesus town read, even though very few actually suspect me.
gdbQKNVFGNDSBGJLRSKBGN?./REKGJTRENKLGRE
Man, I am sick of having to walk on eggshells with yuma. Sick of it. I'm not posting in the thread because I don't want to cause another fight, but yuma, when you're reading this : stop it. Please stop getting offended at every little thing; I don't know how many times we have to restate that w elike playing with you for you to understand that we don't hate you just because we sometimes get annoyed.
"I'm not going to do X because you guys are mean to me" is not something I ever want to deal with, seriously. It's called emotional blackmail.
Anyway.
Assuming Awaclus flips town, who doI want to investigate. Ideally it should meet three criterias :
1) Decent likelihood of flipping scum
2) Highly unlikely to be NKed
3) Is someone I have a hard time reading
Now I do think e is the main one for 1) but... there's also the issue of me doing a complete 180 on him if I get a town result, and how obvious that's going to look to scum. The top candidates for 3) are WW and Hydrad, and they're both pretty unlikely to be NKed... I'm also very curious about Ampharos.
Mmmh. Not sure. I think e, WW and Ampharos are my main options. Gotta be e, I'm unlikely to live long anyway, might as well make my results super clear for people to see after I inevitably get NKed.
I hope I don't get NKed today ? I think yuma just assured he wouldn't be... well crap, unless they're PR-hunting or trying to avoid Doctors, I'm probably going to be NKed. Fuck.
Well actually not that many people find me super tonwnie, I have a shot... but there are no consensus town reads n this game. Well there's RR, but he's not your typical N1 kill. Well, we'll see.
There's also the fact that if I were to get a town result on e, it would look really, really obvious and scum might pick up on that.
Rereading past games for f.ds awards is reminding me I am awful, awful at reading faust. Like, I'm literally always wrong about him, I can't think o a single time I had a strong read on him that was correct. Worth remembering here. He is such an unnappealing target for a cop though, too likely to die.
Town result is worst result. Well, at least I'm alive. silver, huh ? Not an expected choice.
There, result planted, should look obvious after my flip, hopefully doesn't look too obvious now.
Getting a bad feeling about faust.
Why didn't I investigate faust again ?
Oh, right, likelihood of death is why. Hrmph.
The more I think about it, the more "reread during the night" seems way too obvious.
And now I'm putting Ampharos in green. Ugh. That was awkward.
I'm a terrible, terrible Cop. Sorry town.
WW enigmatically doesn't want to lynch Hydrad today...
If it's for PR reasons, that's even less subtle than my Ampharos thing.
faust not reacting to his wagon is... interesting.
I'm being dumb. I'm saying the Awaclus wagon was town-driven when I know for a fact 4 of the 6 off-wagon people are town. Even if both EgorK and Hydrad are town, that's still 1 scum on-wagon.
The problem there is the deciding vote in e vs Awaclus was Haddock, and I very much think he's town. Roadrunner7671 is the second most important vote, and he's probably town too...
Still, it's pretty unlikely that all 3 scum are on-wagon right ? Especially an Awaclus lynch, not the kind that's too hard to get town enthusiastic about. Should probably be going for EgorK or Hydrad.
Should say "Even if both EgorK and Hydrad are scum"
For the record, I am aware my result might not being trustworthy, this being a closed setup and all. I am also going to ignore that.
All that being said, I think this faust wagon should be fruitful in the long run, staying on it for now, expecting a fourth vote to come from scum.
I have a bunch of townreads, I should be able to PoE pretty well here.
Ampharos => conf!town
iguanaiguana => Very likely town
Haddock => Very likely town
yuma => Very likely town
Roadrunner7671 => Very likely town
That leaves me with :
EgorK
Hydrad
faust
Witherweaver
2.71828...
That looks a lot like silver's null reads... actually it's the exact same except he read WW as town. That doesn't really clear him, but I don't have a particularly good reason to suspect WW right now, so let's remove him.
EgorK
Hydrad
faust
2.71828...
2 on, 2 off. I like this a lot.
Ooh, yuma faking annoyance at the end of Day 1 makes me even more confident he's town. And the quoting the PM he sent... theoretically scum can of course fake it, but most of the times that comes from town.
Also, it appears that my reaction to yuma in this QT was a bit excessive then. Sorry about that.
No one reacting t the faust wagon truly makes me more suspicious of him. Which is dumb. Well, it makes sense in that scum might not want to react to it because they're not sure how far it will go, but obviously plenty of townie are ignoring it too.
I like having this QT. It prevents me from posting all the time, which hopefully means I'm less townie.
Sidenote : if you're an investigative PR, having strong town reads and not hedging on them too much is good I think. It means scum might think they're in the clear with you and not kill you. But everytime you're not killed, you should question everything.
I guess I haven't questioned my town reads allthat much, maybe I should take my own advice. Still like Haddock and iguana though. Roadrunner is the one I'm starting to have doubts on. We'll see about that tomorrow if there is one.
Why is everyone complaining day 1 was long ? Ok, rereads get a bit harder, but it's not like people were lurking. The last time I remember a day 1 being remarkably long was ASoIaF Mafia, and that was almost a flawless town win. Definitely better for day 1 to be long than short.
Wasn't planning to tunnel faust like this, but it could work out. Need to look at how scum!faust usually responds to pressure. So far he's been doing exactly what I'd do, but that's just me.
If I talk a lot about getting night killed I won't be ? That could work, I've never done that before and, well, we know how it usually ends.
I did have a theory that faust was a PR in day 1. WHy did I forget about that ?
So, let's see, among typical roles, what could it be ?
Tracker and Watcher are the obvious ones. But those are very definitive, and it's not like faust immediately went after WW today. He spent some time refuting arguments against him and throwing suspicion at e, stuff like that. Not a lot, and he hasn't voted for anyone else, but still.
Both of those are also obvious, and lead WW to claim to have targeted Awaclus for some good reason. Not sure faust would insist on having WW claim first there.
So what's left after that ? Rolecop. Like if you ROlecop a Bus Driver, hey, he could be town. And now it makes sense to have WW claim first, because if he claims Bus Driver, well maybe he's town, otherwise nope.
Then there are the weird invesigative variants like Psychologist and stuff, but well, there's me. It's already a stretch to have both Cop and Tracker... though I do have a negative modifier, so could he.
In fact this might be a theme here. If I believe yuma we have a Random Vig. I'm a Macho Cop.
I might be on to something here. If faust doesn't claim a negative modifier ... but well, I probably won't claim my Macho modifier if I claim, so meh, thats not that good.
Ok, so he has some investigative role with some negative modifier, proabbly. This modifier could be why he'd need WW to claim first.
to have targeted silverspawn*
My dream is that faust is correct and we lynch WW,then scum has to kill faust. And I get to live !
I'm second-guessing my "WW claims first" stance though. faust's answers werereasonable, and he hasn't fakeclaimed in those circumstances before (he fakeclaimed at L-1 in Flavorless and out of the gate in MU), but still.
I feel like I'm not doing this right.
The core of the matter is : I think WW is more likely to be scum, so I wan thim to claim first. But the scenario where WW refuses to claim and we lynch him is just horrible.
And I'm trying to think of what scenarios go really wrong if we make faust claim first.
Obviously faust, if he is town, has some doubt, or he wouldn't do it this way. This might be linked to some modifier, as that appears to be a trend, but which one could bring that ? I'm not sure.
OTOH, can I see faust making this play. It's great, great for him if we make WW claim first. But why do this now ? Day 2, after a mislynch ? Where's the urgency to take a huge risk like that ? I doubt he just thought this up under pressure.
should investigate this [modifier] PR theme. So far we have :
- Active Treestump. Presumably means Awaclus' votes didn't actually count but seemed like they counted ? That sounds bastard-y though. In any case it definitely is a town PR with a modifier.
- Macho Cop.
- (unconfirmed)Random Vig.
Looking at modifiers on mafiascum, what could we have here ?
Loyal [weak town role] could be something, but WW claiming wouldnt' really help faust much.
Reflexive [investigative role] too. faust would need WW to confirm he targeted him and why... but then that's two investigative rolessince there's me.
With WW softclaiming PR (I don't care what he's saying to RR, he clearly is doing that here), it seems likely at least one of the two is lying. The timing of faust's claim seems townie to me.
"Active", what the hell does that mean. He choose wether or not to be a Treestump ? In which scenario would you choose to be one ?
Oh, maybe because it ICfies you. Maybe that makes sense. That derphammer was really a shame.
The Great WW Breadcrumbing of 2015
In his first post, says "I ain't afraid of you". Could be Daredevil ? Then vote silver because "it feels right", also kinda works with that.
Alright, I don't feel like reading more, gonna assume it's that. Especially because Daredevil would fit great in the "power with a negative modifier" theme.
Might be a cross-factional theme though.
Also, might not be a theme at all. But I really like it so Ikinda want it to be.
"I'm protown because fuck squirrels"
I know Squirrel Girl is a thing that exists, but I have no idea who that comment would point to.
I'm kind of expecting WW to say "Ok, come at me bro". I'm not looking forward to that. Because, unfortunately, I think he'll do it regardless to his alignment, hoping that town chickens out. Town won't chicken out, and then we run the risk of another freaking derphammer.
"just a bad kid". Well now I'm lost, don't think that's Daredevil.
Haven't been this angry since ASoIaF mafia.
This is a disaster. If faust doesn't come in and claim, we're just going to be stuck there. It's ridiculous that people are trying to pretnd like we can ignore the whole thing and go on our merry way.
I like this Haddock guy.
Yep, definitely a theme.
Random Vig
Active Tree Stump
Macho Cop
NInja Tracker
Worth noting that Ninja Tracker could easily be a scum role. Not the typical scum role sure, but still.
Though actually, if he's scum, Black Widow isn't his real flavor, so he'd have to invent it for her. I guess it could probably work for other flavors though.
Now we get into the problem of having someone claim first.
If WW doesn't claim, it's hard to justify not lynching him. It's not a definitive result, but assuming trust in faust's claim (and I do have that), it still makes him so much more likely to be scum than anyone else.
If he does claim, it has very little value, because he knows exactly what he has to claim if he's scum. If he claims something that' verifiable in some way maybe we can keep him alive, but really if WW just happens to be a Doctor or a Roleblocker who targeted silver, we're just going to lynch him because those are too convenient now.
How likely is it that they are both town here ?
9 town, 3 scum.
Macho Cop + Random Vigilante + Active Tree Stump + Ninja Tracker + Motion Detector
That's 5 PRs, 4 VTs. A lot. Three investigative roles too. Seems unlikely.
Ninja Tracker is strong though. That + Macho Cop is more of a stretch than Motion Detector + Macho Cop.
Look at who roled PRs in this game, if the claims are true.
Teproc, yuma, Awaclus, faust, Witherweaver.
Poor newbies, they all rolled VT if they rolled town. Ampharos almost definitely VT-slipped there.
Yet they both seem townie.
I think we should lynch elsewhere and I investigate WW tonight. He's the lest likely to die of the two. If he's scum, well great, and if he's town I'll go after faust I think. 3 investigative roles is one too many.
Well, maybe not. I really don't think faust is scum. I hope he gets NKed. Sucks to lose the Tracker but at least it'll make things simpler. Also it means I don't get NKed, I like that.
yuma's thing about not wanting to lynch people who agree with him sounds familiar, so he must have said it before, but it is so incredibly, bafflingly illogical to me.
My read have basically not changed from yesterday. If I survive tonight, I should wonder about that.
Testing my long-stnading theory that defending yourself is basically the wors thing you can do.
Throwing in a fake VT softclaim for scum. Don't think it will hurt my eventual claim too much if it comes to that,my Ampharos breadcrumb is clear enough.
What isup with yuma this game ? His examples for what scum!faust would have claimed were truly terrible...
And I definitely didn't remember this "you don't agree with me, you must be scum" mentality either.
I like Ampharos's style.
This is where we'll see if my "don't be too townie" play backfires.
Is e actually scum buddying yuma here ? I know buddying is always thrown around as being this scummy thing, yet I don't remember actually seeing scum do it, ever. But this feels wrong.
People complaining about the game not living up to their weird contradictory standards is townie, but annoying.
Hrm. The plan was for veterans to be suspicious but unabe to lynch me because newbies would think I'm town. This could take a turn.
Prediction : the next vote on me (if the situation hasn't changed significantly in between) will be cast by scum.
Sadly, we don't get to find that out.
This is heading to be the longest (page-wise) game since Dice Mafia. ASoIaF being 60 pages, we'll overtake pretty easily. If restricting to normal games, it'll be the longest since Modern Community.
That's pretty impressive.
So, if it's e vs me
e (3) : Haddock, Teproc, WW
Teproc (3) : Ampharos, yuma, e
iguana goes on e, Hydrad goes on Teproc. That leaves EgorK, faust and RR. RR is a complete wildcard, the other two are more likely to vote for me I think.
Not looking good.
Actually faust has voted e at one point. So it'll come down to Egork and RR if it's between e and me.
Worth noting : as much as everyone is complaining about the length, and I'm sure if town loses everyone will point to that as the principal factor, this game proves that activity breeds activity. No one is lurking. EgorK has 111 posts, Hydrad 109, this is near the end of day 2. That's about thrice EgorK's total posts in an average game, and twice Hydrad's.
Man, the amount of self-control it takes me to not snap at yuma here...
It doesn't help that I'm pretty sure he's town blindsided by his "people agree with me, they must be town" general attitude (an oversimplification I know, but still).
That was too close for comfort. Still think my choices are paying off so far, as there is very little chance I'm getting NKed (even if e is scum), but there is a real risk of my claim not being trusted. Especially because it's the third investigative role, and people will se my trust of faust/ww as contradictory with being an investigative PR.
Which, they might not be wrong about that. faust really could be scum. If he survives tonight, might be a sign. Hard for scum to live with a Tracker around.
Really ? If RR isn't trolling, that's the luckiest scum lynch ever. Major props to yuma there.
That does mean yuma is an acceptable alternative to faust dying here. He really is close to an IC after this.
Hah, RR thinks we're screwed. WIFOM there, but that's interesting. Points towards faust or yuma.
If I'm RR's partner, I'm not happy about what he's doing here.
Hah, he got me. Well done.
Let's think about what happens next.
The NK : faust or yuma is my guess. WW possible, Ampharos too.
My result : if e is scum, easy. Do the CJM. faust might track me and force me to claim, but that's fine.
If e is town... it gets dicier. It might be worth claiming for the PoE alone, but looking at that "potential NKs" list, I might live for a while here. The main concern is that my turn on him is going to be very, very visible. And I can't hide it if I want my results to be clear in case of NK.
If yuma doesn't shoot, we're still a day ahead of mylo right ?
6 town, 3 scum. Mislynch + NK = 4 town, 3 scum. Right, so if yuma doesn't shoot we still have a mislynch to give. If he does, obviously that depends what he hits.
I think he will. I really dislike it, but I get it.
From yuma's Pov, there are 9 targets he could hit. Presumably this s
- 3 scum
- 5 townies
- 1 townie who scum was NKing anyway
Yeah, I wouldn't shoot.
If I get a town result, I need to rethink everything. I'm getting paranoid about faust/WW. It seems that all serious wagons (except the one on Egork) in this game were on town. That should tell me scum is dominating the game right ?
Don't think I could wait with that result, it would have looked opportunistic. It still might.
If faust can confirm WW targeted e, I don't know what to think. Should probably haveasked him to clarify first, but I really thought his "I guess" meant that he was just saying he hadn't targeted e himself... less sure now.
If he targeted WW, this is a huge mess.
Well, Vanillaiser does make this massclaim ... not great. I wouldn't have claimed today if I ddn't think I had a guilty "result", but I probably would have been forced to I guess.
Basically, scum is going to Vanillaise me and kill faust if he's town. Though Haddock could JK faust... mmm, so they are in a tough spot.
This means scum really, really wants to lynch one of us three if we're all town. They don't really care about WW, but if those three PRs all exist, this night is a nightmare for them.
Well, it didn't work. Tried to get cute with my playstyle, thinking I could find the right balance of scummy to townie, turns out I can't. I'll go back t getting killed N1 every game I guess.
Tomorrow is going to be interesting. Man, getting mislynched at mylo is not something that's ever happened to me, and I don't intend to start now.
Now who do I cop ?
This is going to be tough. I'm no yuma, talking myself out of being lynched isn't a thing I do. I'm especially terrible at it as scum, and haven't had to done it much as town.
iguana being scum migh explain the silver NK ? I can't remember if silver still suspected him by the end of day 1. I will do a massive reread, will have to check for that.
Nothing to report obviously. The only night actions we are waiting for are Faust and WW, no?
QuoteI have a bunch of townreads, I should be able to PoE pretty well here.
Ampharos => conf!town
iguanaiguana => Very likely town
Haddock => Very likely town
yuma => Very likely town
Roadrunner7671 => Very likely town
That leaves me with :
EgorK
Hydrad
faust
Witherweaver
2.71828...
as for whos scum... no clue.
But if I've learned one thing its that faust living past day 3 is usually a scum tell.
Oh that post is supposed to mean that I'm more willing to go Faust instead of teproc. But I just haven't voted incase of quick hammers
Oh that post is supposed to mean that I'm more willing to go Faust instead of teproc. But I just haven't voted incase of quick hammers
That makes sense.
You are also scum.
What does your Macho modifier do?
What does your Macho modifier do?
Maybe I should have kept the QT thing for later.
Ikeep thinking of DWII and how we're going to repeat that amazing comeback. Remember that e ? Your role has kinda reversed in this one : you were the hardest townie to convince I was town back then.
What does your Macho modifier do?
A quick Google search answers that you know.
Macho means I can't get doctored.What does your Macho modifier do?
Protective roles have no effect on me.
Also, hello from the future. It's been 2016 for a while here. It's not that different.
What does your Macho modifier do?
A quick Google search answers that you know.
Macho means I can't get doctored.What does your Macho modifier do?
Protective roles have no effect on me.
Also, hello from the future. It's been 2016 for a while here. It's not that different.
I wanted you to specifically answer. Things aren't always what they are on Mafiascum.
Ikeep thinking of DWII and how we're going to repeat that amazing comeback. Remember that e ? Your role has kinda reversed in this one : you were the hardest townie to convince I was town back then.
You could ask now.
Ugh. Haddock targeting faust is terrible. But really. It is not good.
WW, your result?
Ugh. Haddock targeting faust is terrible. But really. It is not good.
WW, your result?
I targeted Faust, and received Motion Detected.
I suspected he would claim to have been blocked by Haddock, because now I don't confirm Teproc.
Obviously if someone was jailkept and got the "webbed" flavor, they should claim it.
But I really do believe faust saying he got webbed. I mean, that is why he knew he was jailkept, obviously. And no one counterclaims that, so it isn't just the "convenient" claim like I was saying earlier. It is terribly inconvenient
Everyone is targeting the same people. So boring. Why can't we target hydrad or iguana for a change? That would have been useful. You know, motion detected from hydrad means he is scum after a VT claim.
But oh well.
I still like faust after all the claims
e/Iguana/Hydrad is not impossible but it means all scum claimed VT, which is pretty unlikely here.
e/Iguana/Hydrad is not impossible but it means all scum claimed VT, which is pretty unlikely here.
iguana claimed One Shot Bulletproof, not VT.
I'm a little scared now. faust could theoretically have been framed by a Psychotrooper or something. Probably not, and it's just iguana bussing for towncred.
Just depends how much towncred you're trying to fake here.
Do we lose?
See, when I think about it I am more and more leaning faust/hydrad/iguana.
But for me it is between iguana/WW for the last scum. These recent posts by hydrad are confirming my read from earlier today.
For one, the me/Faust thing on Day 2 would be really weird as partners.
yeah. Obviously Teproc dies. WW, result?
Teproc dying confirms results on Ampharos and myself.
I think we are looking pretty good.
Teproc dying confirms results on Ampharos and myself.
I think we are looking pretty good.
Yeah, I just don't really buy the 1-shot BP claim. vanilla-izer sounds great when we hadn't lynched any scum and when most of town hadn't flipped. I just don't buy the fact that scum have a vanilla-izer when we have seen no proof of it....and it is D5.....and they would have used it on WW after killing Teproc. Claim just doesn't smell right.
I'm considering myself conf!town IC, for what it's worth.
I'm considering myself conf!town IC, for what it's worth.
Well I also consider myself an IC. But ya right now I don't see that great of a scum narritive for you. So you get like 87% town read for now.
I'm considering myself conf!town IC, for what it's worth.
Well I also consider myself an IC. But ya right now I don't see that great of a scum narritive for you. So you get like 87% town read for now.
Sorry, but you are a top lynch candidate. From your perspective, one of Teproc's results has to be wrong, and you must know Iguana is scum. (Teproc targeting three scum with two innocent results is pretty crazy.)
Okay. I am Ghost Rider. I was a one shot bulletproof hero.
Hm.. are you certain you were informed that your shot was used up?
I was just informed that I've been vanillaised.
But I don't think I have the bulletproof anymore...
... why would you assume specifically Jailkeep?
I didn't. I thought either jailkeep or roleblocker. I was told I couldn't sleep well at night because I was "webbed."
Spiderman seemed most likely. So it seemed likely it was a town power, and I didn't want to just talk about it to everyone and potentially alert scum to it.
also, I didn't notice this before, but iguana lied to us.Okay. I am Ghost Rider. I was a one shot bulletproof hero.
Hm.. are you certain you were informed that your shot was used up?
I was just informed that I've been vanillaised.
But I don't think I have the bulletproof anymore...... why would you assume specifically Jailkeep?
I didn't. I thought either jailkeep or roleblocker. I was told I couldn't sleep well at night because I was "webbed."
Spiderman seemed most likely. So it seemed likely it was a town power, and I didn't want to just talk about it to everyone and potentially alert scum to it.
I would love to hear how iguana was jailkept and vanillaised in the same night
I'm not sure what you mean, e. Jailkeep doesn't rolestop?
I'm not sure what you mean, e. Jailkeep doesn't rolestop?
yeah, which is why I was thinking he was claiming being vanillaised AND getting webbed N2
I didn't read carefully enough to see the vanillaising happened N1 and was just notified. reading again.
So that was really nothing
Confirming not doing a quickhammer.
Confirming not doing a quickhammer.
I mean, you are confirming that you are not scum and he is town. You could technically still be scum and he is your partner
Wow, lots happened. Including some reads lists. Now the game feels like it is really moving.
Time to post my own reads list I think.
Towny:
Yuma
The claim means a lot. The posts pushing the game further help more. Some people are leaning slight town on Yuma; to me Yuma is the only obv!town player here. Like, I would be really surprised if he was fakeclaiming his role, and scum with a random vig doesn't make any sense at all.
Roadrunner
Who was it who pointed out that scum Roadrunner would have very little incentive to post a long rant/essay during the middle of an otherwise quiet period of the game, when no one was paying attention to him otherwise? It's a good point; for now at least I think I agree. Roadrunner has been very fond of writing long rants lately. The question is whether they are scum rants or town rants. This one looks very towny to me.
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Teproc
Hmmm, so Teproc thinks I look like scum. He says I look very towny in my other game, but what I remember from that game was people calling me mildly scummy or scummy the whole way through. But despite his gunning for me, Teproc looks a lot like town to me here. He's reading the game carefully & paying attention to details. Also, except for his read on me, I think I mainly agree with his reads.
e: He hasn't said much, but what he's said so far has been helpful. I'm not convinced either way, but I have a slight town read on him for now.
Null or Torn:
Haddock: Like a lot of people, I'm having trouble reading Haddock. I want to say that most of his posts seem helpful, and that puts him on the slightly townier side of null for me.
Awaclus & Hydrad: I haven't seen enough from either player to have an opinion one way or another. Would like to see more attention paid to both.
silverspawn: silverspawn called our argument productive. It did not feel productive to me. I did not get strong town reads on him; more I just felt confused like I didn't know how to read him well. I haven't seen a lot of strong pro-town posts from him since then, but he has been really active and I'm not sure if scum wants to risk all of that activity. I really don't know what to think. I guess that leaves me on the slightly scummy side of null.
Faust: Faust's change in playstyle this game is still unnerving to me, but his response to me when I questioned it seemed authentic. Sometimes it seems like he's being helpful, sometimes it just looks like he's being venomous for no reason. So yeah, I'm torn. Overall I'm not really digging this new Faust who criticizes everything I say.
Scummy:
Witherweaver: I remember in the last game feeling like Witherweaver was posting a lot of short fluffy stuff and not being very helpful. Then, somehow, he survived the entire game and won as scum. He's acting the same way in this game, so that makes me not trust him very much so far. He's close enough to null that I could still be convinced he's town, but still looking scummier than most other people.
EgorK: Yuma is (IMO) the towniest player here, and his case on EgorK makes sense to me. Plus, a lot of Egor's reads just seem bad. He's also going after some pretty easy targets (RR, Hydrad) and that makes him look worse. So I guess for now Egor is my top scum read.
This is exactly who I thought would be left. I reread during the night specifically for this purpose, because really I have to make the choice here.
WW, how did faust know to target you with his false claim?
You're thinking it's possible that Faust and I constructed the thing on Day 2?
You're thinking it's possible that Faust and I constructed the thing on Day 2?
This is the primary hinge upon which you are either scum or are not.
Do you mind giving me a list of who you tracked each day and the result? I haven't written it down, but that will definitely help to look at that in retrospect.
I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
Why did you target me, Faust?
WW, why did you target Hydrad ?
Originally I submitted Yuma, the thought being in that he could potentially be caught in a lie, or possibly half verify his claim. (Say, he claimed to use his power but there was only one kill, and not from him.) I decided to change it, though. My main thought on Hydrad was that he was the kind of guy to claim VT as scum in a game like this. He was also not very present yesterday and I had no indication towards town or scum. He'd probably be one of the more likely people to perform a kill on the scum team, too, with getting little attention.
I also expected Yuma to shoot, and I figured the kill flavor would verify him, so my result wouldn't mean a lot.
thats... pretty accurate. I think i usually end up being the one with dirty hands when I'm on the scum team.
You know what?
Vote: Hydrad
He is scummy, and a flip here just might help you all realize that WW is indeed lying.
Okay, that was scummy.
Vote: Hydrad
So Hydrad is just a mix of null and scummy throughout the entire game. There are a lot of unexplained votes, a lot of "let's kill this person for information" posts, and a really heavy use of the word interesting as a sole commentary on things happening.
I think the only reason I wasn't voting for him before is WW's claim.
Vote: Hydrad
Right, Hydrad is better than Haddock.
Vote: Hydrad
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
doo
woo I'm here!
Vote: e
anyways Its a good thing yuma got that role instead of me... I'd totally just roll the dice every night if I got it and hope for the best. I think it would be super fun.
As for believing the claim and stuff. I believe it for now. currently I can't think of as many good reasons why scum!yuma would claim it. but then maybe scum!yuma knew i would think that! noooo.
but ya I believe the claim for now.
Vote: ss instead.
I think for some people it could be considered a slight scum tell. I think for iguana I can't consider it a scum tell anymore.
PPE:3
iguana trying to get people in gear. thats good. I like iguana here. you get 5 town points. Now how strong are these town points? I have no idea as I haven't created the scale yet but I assure you its good.
I forget if I said it somewhere before already but I still believe yuma and think hes town.
I suppose Yuma's role could be a scum role.. you get a random extra kill, so actually better for you than for town, though it has a chance of hurting you. Though, that harm is pretty major. Yuma is the type of guy that would claim it, as scum, for town credit. Except, the role as it's claimed is almost not usable for Town, so if scum!Yuma ever does use it it's pretty suspect. So then the it comes down to just trying to make himself a named townie.
At any rate, these kinds of early claims are by and large from town, not scum. Also well within town!Yuma meta.
That would be a weird scum role I feel like. I maybe it would be something like randomly shoot a towny. I could see that. But randomly shooting anyone as a scum PR feels weird. But who knows I've never modded really or designed so I have no idea on what I'm talking about.
Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.
But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...
lets go Vote: Iguana
Vote: amp
Vote Count 1.9:
silverspawn (1): Haddock
Ampharos (3): ss, faust, Hydrad
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (3): iguana, RR, Teproc
RR (1): EgorK
yuma (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): WW, 2.7
Not Voting (1): yuma
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.
Hydrad read list time!
0 = IC 10 = IS? hmm that doesn't work 10 is scum.
1. Witherweaver 4.2: reason? uh I dunno I guess I don't have any real townie vibes from you.
2. yuma 7.3: Man I almost never break the 7 barrier with these unless they are actual IC's. Basically I feel like yumas telling the truth.
3. silverspawn 3.9: usually you seem towny to me. You feel different this game
4. Teproc 5.1: Uh sure you can be super slight town. Honestly I don't fully remember much of your stances or anything. Sorry
5. iguanaiguana 5.4: You seem to be making sense.
6. Hydrad 123445542: wow I trrust this guy. Hes also probably the strongest player in the entire game and if hes wrong its obviously because he doesn't want to ruin the game for the rest of you by finding the whole scum team instantly. What a kind person.
7. Roadrunner7671 6.1: seems like town RR
8. 2.7... 5.7: I've been liking him a bunch more since he started posting.
9. faust 6.3: I'm getting towny vibes from faust this game.
10. Ampharos 3.7: Playstyle is weird. Now I don't think I can lynch him on just playstyle but I also don't get towny vibes from his posts.
11. EgorK 4.8: I don't remember enough about you either... Sorry!
12. Awaclus 4.4: I remember even less of you... but for being awaclus you just get around a -.5 automatically. Sorry its what happens when I have no way to read you.
13. Haddock 5.3: I don't remember specifics about what you've been posting but I think I remember getting goodish feelings from it.
well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.
Vote: amp
I'm townish on Ampharos now.
Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.
Interesting. I've only read up to here but I'm curious how big the faust wagon gets. It feels like people are slowly gravitating to it.
ok I'm caught up. also the WW images actually got a laugh out of me so +1 there.
Now for what to do. I personally don't see an issue with the same time claim. But I'm really interested why WW doesn't seem to like it. Its either a scum attempt to try to live longer or... hmmm... I'm trying to think why would town do this.
In my opinion I don't think a VT would be so reluctent to claim. So I feel it might be a PR. But at the same time it sounds like WW has a thought of why faust could have an incriminating result on him and it be wrong? I can't think of how that would happen really at all from and PR's I know of. other then just redirection stuff.
This doesn't really make much sense to me for town!WW.
So I'm in favor of both claim at same time or WW first I guess.
OK I think I'll go with
Vote: WW
Redirecting from me to ss. doesn't really make sense at all for scum. I don't really see why they would do that.
The only way I see it working is if like scum wanted to kill ss but had a busdriver ability and swapped me with silver? I don't really see many other options.
also no I did not take any actions.
Ok I'm feeling better about leaving WW/faust alive for now and seeing if things don't add up later on also.
Now for who else to vote... muhahahhaha.
Vote: Egork and I believe L-1
Okay, that was scummy.
Vote: Hydrad
So now that egork looks like it isn't happening I guess I need to find someone new as lynch is tomorrow? I'll double check on that.
ya pretty much tommorow. and teproc vs e currently. sounds fun!
Vote: Teproc
Gauge everyone's reactions, it's my last gift to the town who stabbed me in the back.
I am going to have limited access until Tuesday, as I'm moving across the U.S.
That said, I have something to claim.
At the beginning of last night I was notified that I have been vanillaised.
Interesting TMTMTMTMTM.
But why claim this?
more holiday posts.
This is interesting though I'm really curious if the Teproc wagon will actually build up. I don't think I've ever seen people turn on a claimed cop like this.
You don't have to wonder if you just vote him.
well I kinda wonder... just because I don't feel super comfortable lynching a potential cop
ok so like 36 hours ish or something like that?
I think I'd still rather lynch egork over a claimed cop.
Well, 3 lylos are bad, but who knows. Or you can vote Hydrad and then we'll have much more chances (if Hydrad is scum, that is)
Ya 3 lylos would be bad. But I don't think lynching me will help that out. Sorry. I like it better how it is now.
as for whos scum... no clue.
But if I've learned one thing its that faust living past day 3 is usually a scum tell.
Oh that post is supposed to mean that I'm more willing to go Faust instead of teproc. But I just haven't voted incase of quick hammers
Huh interesting. I was thinking it was a ww iguana team. But I'm wondering why scum ww wouldn't claim that I took action as that seems like a good way to get me lynched.
PPE: Oh interesting. I guess e or amp aren't 100% confirmed. Hmm. So I guess the question is would scum bus drive amp D1 or e D2 more likely.
I'm considering myself conf!town IC, for what it's worth.
Well I also consider myself an IC. But ya right now I don't see that great of a scum narritive for you. So you get like 87% town read for now.
Sorry, but you are a top lynch candidate. From your perspective, one of Teproc's results has to be wrong, and you must know Iguana is scum. (Teproc targeting three scum with two innocent results is pretty crazy.)
Ya I'm fine with an iguana lynch. And ya it was mostly a joke.
Day 5 Final Vote Count:
iguanaiguana (3): 2.7, Ampharos, witherweaver
Not Voting (2): iguanaiguana, Hydrad
With 5 alive, it took 2 to lynch.
Teproc dying confirms results on Ampharos and myself.
I think we are looking pretty good.
I think you and WW need to reconsider that all of Teproc's results were actually correct. Faust was a bus driver, which should give people some pause to consider that one of Teproc's results could have been redirected. A godfather is also very possible.
I agree that WW as scum does not make sense and I think he is town. I also think e is town, mainly based on how I have read him. So if my reads are correct, I am pretty sure that the scum team is Ampharos/Hydrad.
Through all of D1, Ampharos stuck to a gut scumread on Faust that never got any traction, but switched his read as soon as Faust claimed and pushed for a WW lynch instead. He and Faust were the only two people really pushing for a WW lynch without being willing to consider anything else. To me, this looks a lot like partner interactions. It seemed scummy to me then, and I tried to push for a Faust lynch, but no one listened to me. Later that same day I switched to Hydrad and tried to start a wagon on him, and was again talked off of it. So if I am right that the team is Ampharos/Hydrad/Faust, that means that the two main wagons I was pursuing on D2 were both scum wagons, and the only reason they didn't happen is because I couldn't get people to join me.
I realize that no one has targeted me, and that no one can verify any results on me, and that is really unfortunate, but there was never anything I could do about that. The fact that I can't verify anything I've claimed is tied to my having a passive role.
Since D2 happened I have been gone from the game, having very little time to post for quite a while now, and as a result I think I've started to look worse and worse. I apologize for not trying harder, and if we lose this game because of me, as much as it would totally suck, I accept that it would be my fault. That said, there is no reason we have to lose when we are so, so close to actually pulling this together and winning.
I don't know what else to say. All I have is my story. I don't have any way to prove it is the truth. But I hope that people will at least consider it.
Just reread Hydrad. He looks like scum to me.
What is scummy about him is hard to put into words. He was big into an ampharos lynch, he loves bus driving (even specifically bringing it up back on D2 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg551586#msg551586)), he joined the faust wagon so he wouldn't be on the wrong side of things. He chose faust's side in the WW vs faust thing. Everything feels very, well, stiff for Hydrad.
Again, I don't have anything specific besides PoE and circumstantial evidence, but I am happy with a Hydrad lynch today. I am also not surprised that Hydrad would have been the one to do the kill last night. I mean, totally WIFOM (WW was going to target Hydrad or iguana) but WW had already targeted Hydrad once without success to it makes sense that he targets iguana.
Because right now (unless scum have ninja), WW has targeted both iguana and Hydrad and received "no motion detected" both times. And AT LEAST one of them have to be scum. I mean, I think both are scum, but no matter what, one of them has to be.
No point messing around, I suppose.
Vote: Iguana
Got nervous.
Unvote
No way he's not scum. I'll eat my shoe if I'm wrong. Got like 1/20th of the way through the re-read and it's so obvious. The fake fight with faust. The happy-go-lucky demeanor. I'll hang my hat on this one.
Vote: Iguana
His scum tells are
- Look, I am calmly thinking about the possibility of scum!me, but it doesn't matter, since it's all hypothetical
- LOOK, I TOTALLY DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE!
These are the most important ones.
There's also
- Look, I consider your scum read on me to be valid
- Look, I am totally calm about the option of lynching me and am judging it objectively
- Obligatory 'you will realize I'm town' near the end
All of those (except maybe the last one if you take it out of context) are more likely to be from fairly new scum than fairly new town
I'M NOT CALM ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY!!!! IT IS FREAKING ME OUT!
I AM SO TOTALLY PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE, SO MUCH THAT IT MAKES ME TYPE IN CAPS AND MISS PUNCUTATION!!!111oneoneone
But wait! For only $29.99 more, you get:
Your scum read of me is totally not valid in any way!
I am peeing my pants cause I'm so scared about getting lynched!
You'll never get the fact that I'm town, so why try?
----------
In all seriousness, that last one is kinda true. I see what you're doing, but you're just wasting my time (I would say our time but technically you don't know my role, so you get a pass this time.). Go at least look at Teproc. Also, consider the fact that I'm not that new (around 15 forum games and several hundred irc) and have developed my own playstyle.
(There are 15 scum tells in the above sentences; if you don't get them all, you're scum!!!!1111 one)
did you really play about 15 forum mafia games? can you provide links?
None that are on publically accessable forums, sorry :(
Plus they are under different names so I could just be making it up.
So describe to me how you play as scum.
I try to emulate my normal carefree manner, but tend to not try anything too fancy or attention grabbing. So not as crazed as normal but still moderately crazed. I don't want to tell all my secret little stuff I tend to do so that when I am scum I can use them in other games, but this game is not it.
Summary: My scum games are much chiller than normal. Sometimes. Cause WIFOM. Or #yolo.
(I can envision the QT facepalming right now "wtf is he doing". Hi mom!)
The List:
(I’m fully aware these are almost useless. It’s mostly for me to keep track of how I’m feeling at certain points in the game, and to share that with all y’all.)
-----------------
People that are probably town:
Roadrunner: His post 390 just screams town to me. He’s trying to push the game as well, when scum are typically content to let sleeping dogs lie.
Yuma: The claim does a ton. This is so extremely dangerous to do as scum this early in the game. By no means does the claim mean he couldn’t be scum, but it’s just bad scum practice to do this right away. Maybe if the claim was a bomb or something, but it’s not. Additionally, most people seem to have accepted Yuma’s claim, and instead of just armchairing and popcorning, Yuma got into the thick of things, getting all debatey and stuff. This seems more town play to me.
-----------------
People that seem/feel town:
Awaclus: His entrance posts are goofy and carefree in the middle of an ongoing discussion. Scum often like to seem like they know what’s going on if entering the game later. However, you all said that he’s often random like this, so I’m taking it all with a grain of salt.
Iguanaiguana: Impassioned arguments about scum tells and early heavy arguments with SS reads pretty town to me. Ig’s a smart guy though, and could be trying some aggressive and dangerous play, but I’m not feeling it right now.
Silverspawn: Mostly same as Iguana. I normally look at early conflict and almost always town on town violence. I had Silver in the above category, but as the game went on, I realized that he very well could just be a hyperactive scum player. He seems like the type of guy that could do that, but for now I’m sticking with my initial analysis.
-----------------
Big ?s
2.7: Not a whole lot to go on here, and what I have seen hasn’t spoken to me either way. Concerning, but it’s early. We’ll see where things go from here. (Gosh I sound like a scum defending a partner by slight FoS but not really saying anything. Whatever, we’ll get more later.)
Faust: Initially faust came across very scummy, mostly just sitting there and throwing out peanut gallery comments here and there. However, he got very frustrated when people went after him aggressively, which tends to read town. However however, I think he’s smart enough to fake these types of emotions, though maybe not since last game he wanted to vote for PPS based on an out-of-game interaction. Gut says ?scum, head is confused.
Hydrad: Hydrad does what he wants. And I’ll be darned if I have any idea what that is.
Teproc: See, I said 50% chance of scum so I can do things like upgrade you to ?. On re-read, I don’t get as much of a scum feel from Teproc, and I find myself agreeing with a bunch of things he says. His recent list matches up a lot with what I’m putting here as well, things I was thinking before I saw his list. It will take a while for that initial scum feel to wear off, but we’ll leave Tep here for now.
Witherweaver: Wither I have no idea on. There’s definite possibility of being scum, as I think for the most part he’s been cruising with the crowd, but he’s had enough of a unique voice in discussions that I’m not sure what to think. Teh feelz aren’t much help either, as they’re all over the spectrum here. I’ll admit, I have no idea right now. Maybe another re-read???
-----------------
They could be scum?
EgorK: Chillin’ out maxin’ relaxin’ all cool. Maybe this is classic EgorK play but something feels off.
Haddock: Maybe it’s just the way he posts things, with lots of open-ended statements and questions and general uncertainty, but that type of posting is just really easy for scum to use and look like they’re doing something. I’ll probably be dead wrong on this one.
Also, because I darn well want to:
unvote
Vote: faust
^That's my gut talking. We'll see what happens. Probably nothing.
Ampharos (1): faust
faust (1): Ampharos
That's too cute.
Ampharos (1): faust
faust (1): Ampharos
That's too cute.
Scum partners, obv.
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
Is it Iguana being scummy or actually thinking that? Just because he says something that could be scummy does not mean it is. Most everything in this game is WIFOM and up to personal opinion.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Wow, I don't get what you're saying here... I mean, I really don't. This description could be under "Ampharos is scummy" without having to change anything. What exactly points to him being town? It is most curios how the wagon suddenly puffed away for no real reason.
Maybe I am just showing my newbie idiocy here, but I still feel like putting all of your thoughts out into the open is townie, because scum would prefer to keep their ideas shrouded in secrecy. They are the ones with things to hide. So yeah Ampharos' reads list makes him look town, whereas the people who just attack everything while not contributing their thoughts themselves still look like scum to me.
If this is stupid or wrong, then I guess you'd better school me in the ways of playing the game backwards.
I don't know what I did to deserve this kind of attitude... but well. You could have explained what you meant with that read, which would have benefitted town. Instead you are agitating against me (I think? I'm not even sure. Where have I kept my ideas "shrouded in secrecy"?) and suddenly bring up a new point (Ampharos's reads list) that you didn't even mention before.
To be fair, most of your posts have a peanut gallery feel to them, where you're sitting to the side, throwing out comments about ongoings. Not saying that you're doing nothing, but there's a lot that would be tough to call constructive or helpful. I'm in no way insulting you, but stating my strong suspicion of you and agreement with Iguana in this case. (Boy I'm agreeing with him a lot lately. Ig you better not be scum or I'm donezo if you ever get lynched/inspected).
I like my vote where it is, for now. <3 faustaros is real
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
That's interesting; in your previous reads list, iguana and silver only showed up as light town. What changed? Or are you just in a gambling mood?
The more Day 1 consistent headbutting between two people, the more likely they are to be stubborn townies refusing to give up their point. That behavior draws too much attention. It's important to note that this is very different than one person relentlessly going after another, and that can easily be a sign of scum on either side of that (i.e. your moves on GKrieg last game).
I think I also want to come out and just say that I want to drop the Faust thing from my sig. I put it in because another player suggested it but on further thought I don't really like having something negative about Faust in my sig. He bested me last game, and I don't have bad feelings anymore. I think I just want to leave it at that.
I think we're on the same page. We are both sensing something about faust this game but are trying not to be jerks about it. I'd encourage you to keep up the pressure while trying to do so in a respectful manner. I feel like we have something going and would hate to lose it simply because we're trying to be nice. It's a balancing act, but I think you know what I mean.
Note to all: I find myself agreeing with Iguana on many things this game, and am aware this may cloud my judgement on him from here on out. Feel free to slap me around with a fish should I start missing the obvious. ;)
Granted, Ampharos has been very useful and helpful since then. He has toned down the crazy, and come through with some good theory talk (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg547150#msg547150) and stuff. Because he has already escaped all attention on D1.
He brought attention to himself by opening with a good salvo. He gets some people to vote him, but there is nothing there. He calms down and gives some good contributions. (Like I said, I am a sucker for reads posts (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14237.msg547032#msg547032)). Which establishes him as not scum and helpful town.
I call it manipulation.
Good manipulation.
You forgot the part where I sent cookies to everyone's house. Speaking of that, what's your address again?
In all seriousness, you have legit points. I haven't really been scrutinized. I'd like to think that my play is pretty openly town, but it might be a bit early to let me off the hook. Give me more attention, dangit! ::)
One thing I'd like to talk about is faust - we haven't had much discussion about him except for a few people throwing out little sentences here and there, and iguana and myself going after him a little bit. Since you threw him in the scummy side of your list, what do you think?
Also, I spent like half an hour trying to make a picture of Isa the Iguana (from Dora the explorer) and Twilight Sparkle hi-fiving each other as a peace offering to ss, and came up with nothing but absolute failure. Chromebooks can suck.
I guess people will just have to imagine it? And hopefully not be really pissed off?
I find your lack of photoshop skills disturbing.
Also, I am pretty much lost by all this 8 levels deep argumentating. It seems like you were all enjoying yourselves until that because not the case, but I'm just kinda sitting here on my hands, vaguely reading words and feeling my eyes glaze over. At least someone voted for me, I understand that! Exciting! And faust said his vows to make faustaros eternally binding. That's cool.
Summary as far as I'm aware: ss and iguana argue. ss and yuma argue. yuma gets upset, leaves, will hopefully come back soon. That's about what I've gotten out of this. That and I'm not so sure Yuma is for sure town anymore.
PPE: I like nicknames.
Egor and Ampharos trying to get the easy yuma lynch strengthens my scumreads here. I think we have good wagons, but they should be larger.No. If I was trying to lynch him I would have voted him. I brought up this whole discussion, true, but I'm doing it to make town aware of the danger and that we should discuss possible ways to deal with it.
You know what IS scummy? The fact that no matter how much I ask people about you or other people mention you as possible scum, no discussion ever comes of it? It's impossible to get anything started on you and there's a possible explanation why: your more vocal scum partners are leaving you entirely alone.
what you just said
Ok. I don't really want you to defend yourself. Like you said, you have done that. Give me something to work with. Give me something to partner with you on.
Lynching Awaclus? I am totally down. Let's do it together.
Lynching faust? Explain this a bit more for me
I mean, I really like your play, and would miss you on D2. Just give me someone better to lynch and I will join you.
Okay, I promised I'd respond in the morning, so here we go.
Awaclus. Important to note that I’ve never played with him before, so I haven’t had a chance to read his playstyle yet. However, his entrance was in-your-face and random, lots of vote switching quickly. I find that type of entrance from a player that plays non-standard (which it seems he does) to be indicative of town. I often find scum people try to tone done the crazy a little bit and make their entrance a little more smooth. This type of reasoning demands that the player come into the game after a good bit of discussion has started, though. Crazy at the beginning of the game can just be scum playing crazy and knowing they have plenty of time to work that into town cred.
Now. All that said, that’s just the read I had on him early on. Since then, Awaclus hasn’t done too much other than go after Yuma if I recall (again, is there a search function for the thread?). To me he’s sticking too strongly to his thought process there, firmly committed to the yuma lynch, and that also reads town. Normally scum back off or at least water-down their lynch desires to an extent.
I guess I haven’t seen a ton that would make me want to actively push an Awaclus lynch, though I am okay with lynching a lower-activity player, provided there is plenty said about him earlier to give something to work with should they flip town. I don’t think it’s the best lynch here, but if it came down to it, I’d consider jumping on that wagon (though my general MO is to not jump on wagons unless my vote is needed - I’d rather vote where I want my vote unless I have to vote to dodge a no-lynch).
The more the game goes on, the more I’m not so sure I want a faust vote at this point. I think my real drive in going at faust earlier was to get people to actually look at him, which really no one was. There was a while where I felt he wasn’t being that helpful to town and was throwing out peanut-gallery comments, but as of late he’s been more in-line with some of the things I’ve been thinking, and it makes me not so sure I’d want him lynched at this point in the game. I’m still very very wary of him and refuse to say I’m reading him town, but I’m toning down my “kill kill” mantra.
That begs the question of “who do I want to lynch day 1”. Which… is a tough question. The length of this day makes it hard to stick with “teh feelz” reads that normally drive my day 1 votes, since there is so much time to change your tone and manipulate people. Here’s a list of people and if I would/could vote for them:
2.7 - Probably not at this point. Reads and feels slightly town and is pretty active.
Awaclus - Possibly. I’m getting slight town read as explained above, but could be persuaded due to lower activity.
EgorK - Possibly. Has read slightly scummy but when our wagons were the biggest, didn’t try to push mine as scum often do.
faust - Possibly. Explained above.
Haddock - Would vote for him. Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments. Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.
Hydrad - Would vote for him. He’s all over the place and hasn’t drawn too much fire right now. People seem to not want to vote him because they aren’t sure how to read him.
iguana - Would not vote. Reads very town. I’m possibly blinded here though.
RR - Would not vote. Reads town, specifically 390.
SS - Would probably not vote. I’m a big proponent of early head to head battles that go on forever being town vs town. SS vs Iguana is such an example, so I believe him to be town.
Teproc - Possibly. I’m very wary of Teproc since my initial feelz were at least 50% scum on him, but he’s been pretty town driving lately.
WW - Possibly. I’m having a really freaking hard time reading WW. He’s kind of just brash in his comments without any real explanation much of the time, which is sometimes hard to work with. It could just be a playstyle difference between the two of us.
yuma - Would vote for him (and am). The last game I was in, Yuma modded. That means he’s experienced. I find the timing of his return to be very suspicious, since his wagon was taking off. Will I feel bad if he’s telling the truth and we lynch him and he was just needing some time away? Yes, of course. However, I’ve seen smart scum manipulate emotions like that, and I have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not. We’ve had plenty of opinions on yuma as well, so it wouldn’t be a completely wasted lynch. I still think this is the strongest place for my vote right now; the potential for a gambit is high in my opinion.
All that said, if you would like a further in-depth analysis of a specific person, I’d be glad to do so. I am at work, so it might be delayed, though today is pretty slow and I’m mainly just working on quality-of-life improvements.
Hope this is along the lines of what you’re looking for.
So I need to figure out stuff. This has been a long day and I don't really know who to vote for anymore. From memory:
Witherweaver - he has been around a lot, huh? Also actually generating content I think. Vocal about lynching Ampharos. Seems pretty normal so far.yuma- feels townier lately. I am profoundly bad at reading him, so. But if we can actually confirm him, that would be good. So no lynching here I think.
silverspawn - very active. Active is good. I remember feeling bad about him early on, can't remember what that was about. Seems normal lately.Teproc- I feel like he is defending a lot of people. I think that's kinda his thing, do I get that meta correctly? I feel like his play is very pro-town. Not lynching.iguanaiguana- huh. There was some fighting. I think he came out of that somewhat townie-looking. Seems much like in RMM28. I think he should stay alive.
Hydrad - I could lynch Hydrad, I don't remember any of his stances. I feels cheap though. Well, what can you do?
Roadrunner7671 - Gut says town. My gut has been horribly wrong before with him. Still, he's not a preferred candidate.2.7...- seems eager to push the game forward. Also I want him to live to D2 for once. So sympathy pass.faust
Ampharos - still leaves a scummy feel. I should probably reread to see what's really there. I like this lynch, but it's so popular.
EgorK - unusually involved after some lurky time. That's good, though he does a lot of theory talk and less scumhunting.
Awaclus - his thing with yuma is cheap and allows him to do nothing else. Doing nothing else is anti-town. He also does not make a ton of sense to me, which is always a red flag.
Haddock - I do not know. I don't really know how to tell scum!Haddock from town!Haddock. The two games I've seen him in he felt pretty much the same.
Strikethrough for not lynching, bold for preferred, in case that's not clear.
PPE: 6
Vote: faust
Rational:
Day one went WAYYYY too long and I ended up getting talked out of everything I was working on by the end of the day, thus my vote not being on anyone. There was too much time for people to talk me out of my position. I'm going back to one of the loose ends that I worked on a lot - I'm not convinced faust is town.
(I initially wanted to vote Teproc here, but his debate about Yuma using his shot or not and the end of Day 1 has won me over for now).
Also, very interested to hear from Yuma.
No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.
I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason. Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators.
However.
faust knows that, I'm sure. He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment. It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.
All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta. Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust. I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members. It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it. To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies. I get being like that, because I am often like that. So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game? He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies. To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off? It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z". People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.
So you're comparing me to a game where I was scum, see that I'm different here, and conclude that I must be scum?
Of course that game where I was a Traitor I needed to play differently. I needed to be this super town person. I accidentally lynched my partner D1, and my other partner soon had a guilty result on him. So it all came down to me, and I needed to put some serious effort in to win. It was thrilling, it was fun, but it also was exhausting. So sorry if I'm not as present.
And about 3 - I think at least Haddock explicitly stated why he doesn't like my wagon. So did RR, whether you like his reason or not. Who are these people who say "he just seems like town"? I don't think they exist.
PPE 10. Wow.
Yes, because your scum role demanded play more like a town role. I think it's fair to say that traitor plays more like town than it does scum. i.e. you are the uniformed, and must figure it out.
I get the exhausted thing; this game especially with its long days can be tiresome. I will feel bad if you flip town and I've been barking up the wrong tree just because it needed a bit of a break from being super town tree.
That said, I cannot shake the nagging feeling that I'm on to something, and I'm not getting what I need to dissuade me from that. It's up to the rest of the town to either pursue this or to steer away from it, because I might be past the point of return.
Maybe I'm giving too little credit to those that said why they didn't like your wagon. I'll go read Haddock's.
No, he's town. I said why, but I can say again if you need me to.
I went back and read it, and I you know, I initially had him marked on my spreadsheet as town for that reason. Emotional outbursts tend to be town indicators.
However.
faust knows that, I'm sure. He could have faked it for town cred, or, and more likely in my opinion, he was being serious about being frustrated and was venting, regardless of his alignment. It was more an "attack" on his meta play, and that's annoying regardless of your role.
All things said:
1. faust is smart enough to have faked that, or could be legit upset because it was an attack on meta. Either of these being true is enough for me to not give town cred for that.
2. Something has felt off all game about faust. I've only played in one game with him, but it was where he was a mafia who didn't know his other members. It was the ultimate puzzle to figure out, and he seemed really excited and engaged to solve it. To me, that seems like someone who would be excited about being town, going full bloodhound mode, hunting down the baddies. I get being like that, because I am often like that. So that begs the question, why isn't faust like that this game? He looks like town if you just glance over what he's saying, but a lot of it seems to me to be more distractionary points than ones that are legit cases/pursuit of baddies. To me, it doesn't line up from the faust I know.
3. Why hasn't this wagon taken off? It's not like other wagons, where there are lots of people saying "oh I'm not voting for him because x,y,z". People just aren't saying anything other than off-hand "oh he just seems town", if we even get that.
My initial thought is to believe faust's claim. However, he is a sly sly man. He could be gambiting here, afraid he is caught. I legitimately am not sure how to read this situation. I'll think on it a bit, and get back to you with my claim order vote.
I guess it's no use stretching this out. I have a result on WW that incriminates him. I think the best course of action would be for him to full claim, and then I state in detail what I know, but given people's reads on me, I don't know if you want to go through with a plan I proposed.
Nope. You're claiming first.
I suppose town will have to decide. I'm not sure either way yet, I'll get back to you.
Well, uh, WW seems pretty clear-cut about this. I'm not sure he will listen to majority opinion.
Well, if we get a majority that wants him to claim first, and he doesn't, we can lynch, and gain a ton of info from it. A LOT.
Still not sure how I want to vote though.
PPE Teproc types fast.
I'm pretty sure I want faust to claim first, if we're still voting on that. I might change my mind though.
Oh, and lock me in for voting that faust should go first. I've read enough on this topic.
50 bucks there's no redirection in this game. Knowing what I know about the roles, there probably along the lines of 5-8 VTs, and to me it is a long shot that with this type of set up, scum was given a re-director. Course, I've never played an Ash game before, so there could be a lot more than I'm expecting.
Something is off here.
WW's claim reads scummier than Faust's. It's just too darn convenient for a role as scum. I believe I was reading faust as playing differently, which he was, if he has this role. There is a very simple explanation for all this: WW is scum, and killed ss last night. He breadcrumbed early to protect himself from exactly this type of scenario.
Vote: WW
Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff.
Just lynch WW and get this day over with.
So you've given up on scumhunting this game?
umad? ;)
No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.
I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle. I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode. "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)
Ok, this is ridiculous. You suspected Faust the entire game. He and WW both make conflicting claims and now you're positive that it's..... WW who is scum? I know, I know. You gave 'reasons.' But I have a question for you
HOW? HOW ARE YOU SO SURE?
I was never sure faust was scum. I thought something was up with him. Something was. I thought for a while about what he said, and when you simply think about what is the most likely scenario, it is that faust is telling the truth and that he caught WW red-handed. WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. The most simple explanation here is that I found what I was looking for from faust, and now believe I found what I'm REALLY looking for here in WW.
If it makes you happy, I'm never 100% sure about anything. I just play like it, cause why not? At least I'm not wishywashy and you know clearly where I stand.
So. Lynch WW. 8)
PPE: forgot to mention that yes, redirection is unlikely.
...
See, this is the kind of thing that is so bad, it simply cannot come from scum.
Fhew okay I'm tired cause getting all worked up about the WW thing, deciding to drop it for now, and then wracking my brains for who could possibly be scum here.
Do more of your talking about all sorts of stuff; I'll read it all and be back later.
So Hydrad is just a mix of null and scummy throughout the entire game. There are a lot of unexplained votes, a lot of "let's kill this person for information" posts, and a really heavy use of the word interesting as a sole commentary on things happening.
I think the only reason I wasn't voting for him before is WW's claim.
Vote: Hydrad
Right, Hydrad is better than Haddock.
Vote: Hydrad
To be clear, if I thought WW's claim was correct, I would not go for Hydrad, because that assumes two things: A) Hydrad did not perform the kill. B) Hydrad does not have redirecting abilities or any other targetting PR.
Sorry, all caught up. Been busy with the holidays and such.
I'll admit that iguana is not as solid of town as I previously believed him to be. But I don't think that's where we look today. I still like the VT lynch. EgorK didn't go through on our first try, but I'm not sure if that's because he is or isn't scum. I did really think he was town earlier and am not sure if I'm ready to toss that in the trash just yet.
All that said, we've got some time, and as I'm not sure who to lynch yet, I'm going to hold off voting right now. I'll do a full think-through when I have a little more time.
I can't help but feel like the EgorK lynch is too easy. It smells too much like a scum pushed mis-lynch.
This game is basically lynch correctly or lose.
I'm willing to stand on my initial gut feeling.
Plus, the cop power selections make no sense.
Vote: Teproc
Hi all, just caught up. Iguana is the correct lynch. He's obviously trying to save himself here by casting a shadow of a doubt on what is a pretty obvious situation: I'm town, have been read strongly town all game by most people, I was seen as town by cop, and had a legit scum read on faust which I pursued heavily, which he managed to weasel out of for a while.
Plus, last rmm game I was in, town!iguana really went ham at this point in the game, doing everything he could to save town's chances. He's scum here, this one should be easy. I'll hold for a second before voting just to make sure we want to do this.
Wow, lots happened. Including some reads lists. Now the game feels like it is really moving.
Time to post my own reads list I think.
Towny:
Yuma
The claim means a lot. The posts pushing the game further help more. Some people are leaning slight town on Yuma; to me Yuma is the only obv!town player here. Like, I would be really surprised if he was fakeclaiming his role, and scum with a random vig doesn't make any sense at all.
Roadrunner
Who was it who pointed out that scum Roadrunner would have very little incentive to post a long rant/essay during the middle of an otherwise quiet period of the game, when no one was paying attention to him otherwise? It's a good point; for now at least I think I agree. Roadrunner has been very fond of writing long rants lately. The question is whether they are scum rants or town rants. This one looks very towny to me.
Ampharos
Basically, I got exactly what I was hoping I would get from Ampharos, which is a meaningful contribution to the game. His first few posts looked scummy to me, but now it looks more like he was drawing attention to himself because he knew he could show himself to be towny under scrutiny. At the same time, Ampharos seems like kind of a loose cannon. And that makes him harder to trust.
Teproc
Hmmm, so Teproc thinks I look like scum. He says I look very towny in my other game, but what I remember from that game was people calling me mildly scummy or scummy the whole way through. But despite his gunning for me, Teproc looks a lot like town to me here. He's reading the game carefully & paying attention to details. Also, except for his read on me, I think I mainly agree with his reads.
e: He hasn't said much, but what he's said so far has been helpful. I'm not convinced either way, but I have a slight town read on him for now.
Null or Torn:
Haddock: Like a lot of people, I'm having trouble reading Haddock. I want to say that most of his posts seem helpful, and that puts him on the slightly townier side of null for me.
Awaclus & Hydrad: I haven't seen enough from either player to have an opinion one way or another. Would like to see more attention paid to both.
silverspawn: silverspawn called our argument productive. It did not feel productive to me. I did not get strong town reads on him; more I just felt confused like I didn't know how to read him well. I haven't seen a lot of strong pro-town posts from him since then, but he has been really active and I'm not sure if scum wants to risk all of that activity. I really don't know what to think. I guess that leaves me on the slightly scummy side of null.
Faust: Faust's change in playstyle this game is still unnerving to me, but his response to me when I questioned it seemed authentic. Sometimes it seems like he's being helpful, sometimes it just looks like he's being venomous for no reason. So yeah, I'm torn. Overall I'm not really digging this new Faust who criticizes everything I say.
Scummy:
Witherweaver: I remember in the last game feeling like Witherweaver was posting a lot of short fluffy stuff and not being very helpful. Then, somehow, he survived the entire game and won as scum. He's acting the same way in this game, so that makes me not trust him very much so far. He's close enough to null that I could still be convinced he's town, but still looking scummier than most other people.
EgorK: Yuma is (IMO) the towniest player here, and his case on EgorK makes sense to me. Plus, a lot of Egor's reads just seem bad. He's also going after some pretty easy targets (RR, Hydrad) and that makes him look worse. So I guess for now Egor is my top scum read.
calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team
calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team
Um, okay, you do that!
And WW is a blank page as always. His playstyle is way more anti-town than that of Awaclus.
see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.
You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.
It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.
That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.
Is it Iguana being scummy or actually thinking that? Just because he says something that could be scummy does not mean it is. Most everything in this game is WIFOM and up to personal opinion.
I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.
eh... what, exactly, is the point of this post?
the concept of non-meta arguments means assuming that X is a scum tell for A because X is a scum tell for most people. Clearly, non-meta arguments can therefore always be wrong, if X is in fact not a scum tell for A. This is a general rule and has nothing to do with my post. Do you suggest that we should stop using any non-meta arguments? If not, then what are you trying to say?
I'm saying I think you both are town and that I hope soon you will start working together instead of presenting a division for scum to exploit. I also acknowledge that I could be totally wrong.
So about this... I don't know. Silver right now falls into the second category of people I mentioned before: He's active and has reads but they disagree with mine so much I don't know what to make of them. I mean, if he is serious about me being on a scum team with Yuma then I am just flabbergasted. That sounds so incredibly unlikely...
As for Hydrad, IDK I guess I can see why someone might think that if they already think Hydrad and I look scummy. FWIW I'm not convinced at all Hydrad is town, but I have seen a few Hydrad games lately where he looked pretty scummy and then was able to come in, help town, and clear himself. I at least want to give him a chance to talk.
So reasonable people can disagree reasonably. I'm just not convinced on Silver either way yet.
I'm reading through your reread. Its amazing.
I'm reading through your reread. Its amazing.
Oh okay then
\vote Ampharos
Fun fact: scum awlays votes first on 1v2 LyLo.
You can also be a Roleblocker, or various JOAT stuff
This thread is REALLY FREAKING LONG. Like holy cow a re-read takes forever.
Here’s some relevant stuff I found when rereading.I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing. If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.
Nobody else had brought this up at this point. Does WW just randomly guess scum might have a bus driver, or does he know?
I guess it's time. Teproc guessed well.
I am Black Widow, the Ninja Tracker.
You can guess what happened last night... I tracked WW, he targetted silver. I don't think that anything he says at this point will make me vote somewhere else.
The Ninja in my role has some interesting implications. Obvious guess is there is another Watching/Tracking role out there. But ashersky has included roles that "do nothing" before, so I'm not sure if it's just for the flavor.
Why is Egor scummy again?
You all can't answer that question, huh? Everyone who can't answer that question should not be voting for Egor.
I answered it already. He's not that scummy, but he's the least townie player around (well, there's e too).
To my knowledge, that is the only way to catch scum!EgorK. Worked in ASoIaF.
Lots of people are scummy. Hydrad, RR, e, WW are just the ones I can think of the top off my head. Some others I don't really have an opinion on. Ampharos, iguana. How are all these townier than Egor?
Oh wait, I think you're saying that in the scenario where I'm scum, right? ???
That makes more sense if so.
Final Day 1 Vote Count:
Ampharos (1): Hydrad
yuma(1): Awaclus
2.7 (3): EgorK, Teproc, ss
Awaclus (7): faust, WW, iguana, 2.7, Haddock, RR, yuma
Not Voting (1):, Ampharos
With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
Final Day 2 Vote Count:
Teproc (2): Ampharos, Hydrad
2.7 (1): WW
Hydrad (1): faust
WW (1): RR
RR (6): EgorK, Haddock, iguanaiguana, Teproc, yuma, 2.7
Not Voting (0):
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
Vote Count 3.Austria (Also Final Day 3 Vote Count):
EgorK (5): 2.7, Haddock, Hydrad, Teproc, faust
Teproc (2): iguanaiguana, Ampharos
Hydrad (1): EgorK
Not Voting (1): ww
With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
It's twilight still.
Final Day 4 Vote Count:
faust (4): Teproc, witherweaver, iguanaiguana, Hydrad
Not Voting (3): 2.7, faust, Ampharos
With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
Day 5 Final Vote Count:
iguanaiguana (3): 2.7, Ampharos, witherweaver
Not Voting (2): iguanaiguana, Hydrad
With 5 alive, it took 2 to lynch.
QTs:
Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/njnBDhty2R6a
Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Z4vqempGLJ3
Villains: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/hghpjCnGGamC
Teproc can link his -- it was real.
Well, that was a series of unfortunate events. Though I admit that some mistakes have been made on our part.
MVP is Teproc, with witherweaver an amazingly close second based on that final day.
That QT move was bold, earth shattering, and basically broke the forum (metaphorically). It's literally changing mod rulesets and ways of thinking, as well as getting creative scum juices flowing for ways to buy a ton of towncred in the endgame.
iguana throwing in the towel didn't change anything right ? He was getting hammered by WW anyway.
MVP is Teproc, with witherweaver an amazingly close second based on that final day.
That QT move was bold, earth shattering, and basically broke the forum (metaphorically). It's literally changing mod rulesets and ways of thinking, as well as getting creative scum juices flowing for ways to buy a ton of towncred in the endgame.
Man, I actually think it should have been me. Though, I agree Teproc's QT thing made a big impact against me wanting to lynch him.
QTs:
Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/njnBDhty2R6a
Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Z4vqempGLJ3
Villains: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/hghpjCnGGamC
Teproc can link his -- it was real.
Teproc (The Punisher) : http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/s4ynLfD7jwBr
MVP is Teproc, with witherweaver an amazingly close second based on that final day.
That QT move was bold, earth shattering, and basically broke the forum (metaphorically). It's literally changing mod rulesets and ways of thinking, as well as getting creative scum juices flowing for ways to buy a ton of towncred in the endgame.
Man, I actually think it should have been me. Though, I agree Teproc's QT thing made a big impact against me wanting to lynch him.
You played a good game, then a great last day. You chose well on your night action targets (although only Teproc caught scum). Your reads weren't the best this game, which was the deciding factor for me.
If it means anything to you, my opinion is that.
Also funny that Teproc was trying to get people to see him as scummy, and I got convinced that he was scum.
Who was it that mentioned Hydrad as a Nexus early on?
I wonder which turn the game would have taken had WW been killed over Teproc.
Who was it that mentioned Hydrad as a Nexus early on?
I wonder which turn the game would have taken had WW been killed over Teproc.
I wonder which turn the game would have taken had WW been killed over Teproc.
What was your reasoning for Day 2?
I wonder which turn the game would have taken had WW been killed over Teproc.
What was your reasoning for Day 2?
I knew that if I was just playing my regular game and didn't die, people would suspect me pretty soon. So I did something to shake things up. Claiming a guilty result seemed like a good way to survive for at least another day (and get a mislynch), because the meta is scum doesn't do 1-1 trades. I picked you as a target because I thought you made sense as a target for twon!me.
We already had the ash JK claim in Mean Girls. Not quite as extreme as faust (I think it was a counterclaim from ash), but still a 1 for 1 trade relatiely early on (either day 2 or day 3).
I still don't think it's a great idea, it worked out great here because the situation was so weird we decided to keep you both alive. I think faust was overestimating the strength of the "faust is alive, must be scum" argument. Like, we have a WW alive at lylo here, after claiming a PR on day 2. It happens.
Night 2 Actions:
Faust bus drives Yuma and Haddock
Haddock jails iguanaiguana
Iguana vanillaises yuma, would target Haddock - fails due to being jailed.
Teproc Cops 2.7 - success, receives Hero
Yuma gets angry - success - randomly kills iguanaiguana - fails due to iguana being jailed.
Hydrad kills Haddock, targets Yuma - success
WW motion detects 2.7 - success, no motion detected
iguanaiguana gets the message that he is webbed.
Teproc gets the message that 2.7 is a hero.
WW gets the message "no motion detected."
yuma dies.
We already had the ash JK claim in Mean Girls. Not quite as extreme as faust (I think it was a counterclaim from ash), but still a 1 for 1 trade relatiely early on (either day 2 or day 3).
I still don't think it's a great idea, it worked out great here because the situation was so weird we decided to keep you both alive. I think faust was overestimating the strength of the "faust is alive, must be scum" argument. Like, we have a WW alive at lylo here, after claiming a PR on day 2. It happens.
Yeah, but Faust is undoubtedly a stronger town player than me.
And now holy shit WW just said nexus hydrad!!!!
Too bad he thinks it isn't possible.
N1 Actions:
Quicksilver bus drives silverspawn and ampharos
Spider-Man (Haddock) JKs Captain America (2.7) -- 2.7 receives PM that he was webbed.
Punisher (Teproc) cops (Ampharos) -- targets SS, receives "Hero"
Hulk (yuma) stays calm. No one dies.
Hydrad kills Ampharos -- targets SS, SS dies
Scarlet Witch vanillaizes no one.
Daredevil (WW) motion detects Mastermind (Hydrad) -- is randomly redirected to iguanaiguana, receives no motion detected.
You mean if they get tracked ? Pretty sure it shows them targeting both.
I count bus driving as targeting, so both driven targets were targeted by Faust.
I did call 2/3 of the scum team at the end of Day 3!
I did call 2/3 of the scum team at the end of Day 3!
Well, on Day 3!, 2/3 scum had already flipped.
Also, funny story for the crowd after the game...
That lynch rule about a lynch happening at the end of the day if there are more than 10 players? I put that in for a specific game and keep forgetting to take it out.
I actually like the rule, but it was never meant to be permanent. I'm glad the players saw it.
nice job saving that game for town!
I feel for the scum. I have been there before (too many times) at three correct mylo lynches in a row. It hurts. You'll get over it... Like 2 years from now.
nice job saving that game for town!
I feel for the scum. I have been there before (too many times) at three correct mylo lynches in a row. It hurts. You'll get over it... Like 2 years from now.
I'm not sure I would have gotten over choosing incorrectly here.
PS:
I am keeping this for my future games:QuoteAlso, funny story for the crowd after the game...
That lynch rule about a lynch happening at the end of the day if there are more than 10 players? I put that in for a specific game and keep forgetting to take it out.
I actually like the rule, but it was never meant to be permanent. I'm glad the players saw it.
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.
Damn, I felt so special being in everyone's signature :(
Damn, I felt so special being in everyone's signature :(
Do people still have silly animations and bright flashing banners in their sigs?
I turned that feature off because it kept causing my browser to be slow in loading and all the animation was distracting me.
But I kinda miss it.
SS has a little pony.Damn, I felt so special being in everyone's signature :(
Do people still have silly animations and bright flashing banners in their sigs?
I turned that feature off because it kept causing my browser to be slow in loading and all the animation was distracting me.
But I kinda miss it.
The most anyone has are small animated things, I barely notice them... but then again that was already the case when you disabled signatures, so I guess they bother you more than me.
I'm assuming only one scum team until there is evidence to the contrary (ie two NKs).
Nexus!Hydrad is insanely unlikely. Not only does there need to be a Nexus and it needs to be Hydrad, the probability of it redirecting perfectly to explain all this is infinitesimal.
I'm going back to 1)... but you're right, WW's claim is too weird to be fake. I'm really lost.
Well, that was a series of unfortunate events. Though I admit that some mistakes have been made on our part.
Well, that was a series of unfortunate events. Though I admit that some mistakes have been made on our part.
Is that a reference?
great job lylo!
This game was fun to watch from the sidelines. Great play by a lot of the players in the game. I totally thought both Faust and WW's claims were truthful and was shocked that Faust flipped scum.
What was the point of the Random Vig? Just flavor? I mean, it matches flavor pretty well, but I'd have a hard time seeing the utility of it.
Imagine if we would have lynched Hydrad Day 2 and saw a Nexus flip.
Though, we were incorrectly thinking I could have been redirected to Silverspawn through Nexus!Hydrad, but it took us a while to realize in that case I would have also detected the kill on Silverspawn. So we'd still be back to considering Ninja, or Faust lying. Though I guess I would have looked better.
PS:
I am keeping this for my future games:QuoteAlso, funny story for the crowd after the game...
That lynch rule about a lynch happening at the end of the day if there are more than 10 players? I put that in for a specific game and keep forgetting to take it out.
I actually like the rule, but it was never meant to be permanent. I'm glad the players saw it.
I don't really understand why ash thinks my claim was so bad.