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[yuma]

There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.

Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.

I do not agree...

And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.

Yes. That is how I understand it

[Teproc]

I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing.  If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.

I thought about that too, and I don't think it's the case. The ability is presumably not targeted, so it shouldn't be able to be redirected.

Why would it not be targeted?

oh and the reason I was looking in my PM was that I think from another setup of answers ash gave me there isn't a "targeting" I think. I can ask again, but I am not sure ash will directly answer that question... I wouldn't if I were the mod.

This is the discussion about yuma's potential for redirection... unclear then.

Ash : can a random role be redirected ?

Worth a try.

PPE : If anything his breadcrumbing makes me suspicious, I think scum tends to breadcrumb more than town, because town is scared they'll get NKed. Not sure if WW historically breadcrumbs as town, could be worth investigating.

[Teproc]

LEt's formulate that better.

Ash, can a role with random targeting be redirected ?

[faust]

WW's breadcrumbing is completely null. It makes his claim more believeable, but it does not make him more likely to be town. He could be a Mafia Motion Detector.

The trouble I have with this scenario is... why do I see him target silver, and only silver? Motion Detecting silver does not seem useful.

Unless he is scum AND his partners redirected me, which is possible I guess.

[Teproc]

There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.

Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.

I do not agree...

And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.

Give a me a scenario where scum passes on the opportunity to redirect a vig on a townie they want to kill, which also protects them.

[faust]

LEt's formulate that better.

Ash, can a role with random targeting be redirected ?

ash will only answer question issued via PM.

[Teproc]

WW's breadcrumbing is completely null. It makes his claim more believeable, but it does not make him more likely to be town. He could be a Mafia Motion Detector.

The trouble I have with this scenario is... why do I see him target silver, and only silver? Motion Detecting silver does not seem useful.

Unless he is scum AND his partners redirected me, which is possible I guess.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

[Teproc]

LEt's formulate that better.

Ash, can a role with random targeting be redirected ?

ash will only answer question issued via PM.

Is that new ? Ok then.

[faust]

There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.

Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.

I do not agree...

And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.

Give a me a scenario where scum passes on the opportunity to redirect a vig on a townie they want to kill, which also protects them.

The case where the vig does not shoot, and the case where there is a high probability that the vig already targets town.

[yuma]

What type of redirection is there ? The only one I'm familiar with is Bus Driver.

If scum has a Bus Driver, what do they do N1 ? Their main fear has to be yuma shooting. So they bus drive one of their own with a townie they'd like to see dead. In this case, faust tracked that townie, and that townie targeted silverspawn ? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Make sense the other way around though, if WW is the townie, and faust saw what the bus driven scum did : kill silverspawn.

Huh, that's interesting. What are the other redirection roles typically ?

There is one that is kinda like a lightning rod, except that scum can pick who it goes on... So that all roles used that night affect that one player... Can't remember the name. Probably not in use here, and could prob find out if that were the case with other roles... But there are others. When at computer I can make a more exhaustive list. And then we have potential for semi invented and modified roles... Like awaclus'

[Teproc]

There is no scenario in which scum, having a Redirector, does not use it on yuma.

Unless, do we know if yuma's role can be redirected at all ? I feel like yuma asked that at some point, can't remember the answer, will try to find it.

I do not agree...

And I think yuma stated that his role works like any other night action, i.e. can be subject to redirection.

Give a me a scenario where scum passes on the opportunity to redirect a vig on a townie they want to kill, which also protects them.

The case where the vig does not shoot, and the case where there is a high probability that the vig already targets town.

That doesn't hold up.

1) They do not know if the vig is going to shoot.
2) yuma's vig is random. It's more likely to hit town, yes, but if you're scum you're scared of being hit.
3) How is there a better use of their redirection elsewhere, since they presumably don't know anything about anyone else ? Like, why redirect you in this case, when they have no particular reason to think you're a PR, let alone which one.

[Witherweaver]

I've done flavor breadcrumbing at least once before.  I think I've only done it as town.

[Teproc]

So far, this is where I am :

If there is no redirection, then one of them is scum. In that case, I think it's WW.

If there is redirection, they're probably both town, as the main explanation I'm seeing is the Bus Driver one.

[Witherweaver]

So do you think Yuma is scum, Teproc?  Or that one of me/Faust are?

PPE: kind of answered

[Teproc]

unvote

PPE : I think yuma is town. I'll admit that my reasoning somewhat falls apart if he isn't. I also think faust is town. I'm unsure about you.

[faust]

That doesn't hold up.

1) They do not know if the vig is going to shoot.
2) yuma's vig is random. It's more likely to hit town, yes, but if you're scum you're scared of being hit.
3) How is there a better use of their redirection elsewhere, since they presumably don't know anything about anyone else ? Like, why redirect you in this case, when they have no particular reason to think you're a PR, let alone which one.

Well, it seems you could already figure out I was a PR based on my D1 play, yes? Redirecting someone other than yuma is certainly not safe play. But some scum players like to live dangerously. The chance to cause confusion AND get a townie killed is a pretty good outcome.

[Witherweaver]

The redirection could be done on the level of targets, not actors, so they couldn't use it on Yuma.

(Whatever the role name is, not "Redirector")

[faust]

The redirection could be done on the level of targets, not actors, so they couldn't use it on Yuma.

(Whatever the role name is, not "Redirector")

I believe this is why Teproc thinks Bus Driver is a good explanation.

[Teproc]

That doesn't hold up.

1) They do not know if the vig is going to shoot.
2) yuma's vig is random. It's more likely to hit town, yes, but if you're scum you're scared of being hit.
3) How is there a better use of their redirection elsewhere, since they presumably don't know anything about anyone else ? Like, why redirect you in this case, when they have no particular reason to think you're a PR, let alone which one.

Well, it seems you could already figure out I was a PR based on my D1 play, yes? Redirecting someone other than yuma is certainly not safe play. But some scum players like to live dangerously. The chance to cause confusion AND get a townie killed is a pretty good outcome.

I'm realizing my Bus Driver scenario is dumb. Because yuma's vig is random, bus driving doesn't change the odds of scum getting hit at all.

[Teproc]

Ugh. I liked that one.

So yeah, if scum has Bus Driver-type redirection, anything goes.

[faust]

However, is scum were to use a Bus Driver to protect themselves from yuma, the protection only ever decreases their chances to be killed if they Bus Drive yuma/scum player, yes? But arguing that the confusion we have is due to Bus Driving would imply that they Bus Drover WW/scum player...

[Witherweaver]

The redirection could be done on the level of targets, not actors, so they couldn't use it on Yuma.

(Whatever the role name is, not "Redirector")

I believe this is why Teproc thinks Bus Driver is a good explanation.

Oh, Bus Driver does that, okay.

[faust]

ashersky games are hard.

[Teproc]

However, is scum were to use a Bus Driver to protect themselves from yuma, the protection only ever decreases their chances to be killed if they Bus Drive yuma/scum player, yes? But arguing that the confusion we have is due to Bus Driving would imply that they Bus Drover WW/scum player...

Hah, you're right, that's what they do if they have a Bus Driver. Protect themselves by making yuma kill himself if he hits scum.

Less convincing, more possibility of them using it elsewhere... but doing WW/scum player makes no sense to me here.

[Witherweaver]

Oh man, I totally forgot I wanted to come out and say that Faust and I were Masons to troll everyone.  I missed the chance.