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[silverspawn]

hm, the only game I found was sss mafia. he got lynched day1 there - he barely defended himself, instead pushed me for what I felt were weak points.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 3.4

gkrieg (3): silverspawn, Haddock, Hydrad {L-1}
Haddock (1): ashersky
Hydrad (1): gkrieg

not voting (2): faust, Joseph

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day ends Tuesday, December 1st at 10 p.m.

[ashersky]

I'm worried this is too easy.

Joseph needs more scrutiny, maybe.

[Haddock]

he barely defended himself, instead pushed me for what I felt were weak points.

This is a bit like what he's doing this game.

Nevertheless, I agree with ash, this might be a bit too easy.

I think Hydrad needs extra scrutiny more than Joseph does right now, I'm really not sold on the idea of the last partner being on the wagon.

[silverspawn]

my gut agrees with it feeling too easy, but my logic does not. why would a mislynch feel easier than a real lynch? the only difference is that gkrieg would probably be on the mislynch wagon, whereas whoever the mislynch guy is might not necessarily be on the gkrieg wagon

that's not much, really.

but taking a closer look at Joseph is advisable anyway.

[ashersky]

my gut agrees with it feeling too easy, but my logic does not. why would a mislynch feel easier than a real lynch? the only difference is that gkrieg would probably be on the mislynch wagon, whereas whoever the mislynch guy is might not necessarily be on the gkrieg wagon

that's not much, really.

but taking a closer look at Joseph is advisable anyway.

Your logic is right, too.

Any lynch, correct or not, can only have one scum on it anyway, and it won't be a bus.  So all lynches should be the same difficulty to get through, all other things considered.

The "too hard to get the lynch through" argument is built on partners not bussing.  That's not a factor here.

So I retract that statement.

[Joseph2302]

The easy lynch isn't always a bad one, see Edmund's lynch in M69, which was easy, because everyone thought he was scum. On the other hand, think we should evaluate all options before lynching. We've got time, might as well use it.

[faust]

The easy lynch isn't always a bad one, see Edmund's lynch in M69, which was easy, because everyone thought he was scum. On the other hand, think we should evaluate all options before lynching. We've got time, might as well use it.

Start evaluating then!

[Joseph2302]

The easy lynch isn't always a bad one, see Edmund's lynch in M69, which was easy, because everyone thought he was scum. On the other hand, think we should evaluate all options before lynching. We've got time, might as well use it.

Start evaluating then!

I will if people wait until tomorrow or Saturday.

[faust]

gkrieg, you have 12 hours to post somethng meaningful. Otherwise I will hammer.

[Hydrad]

woo. sounds like fun!

[gkrieg13]

I'm town.  The scummy things I have done are not voting for scum!RR, who I thought was town!RR.  I think he played a great game and he had me fooled. 

Other things people are giving me scum points for:

yuma says I'm scummy D-2 but doesn't give any backing for it.  Ok he does later but it's because I made a post trying to look townie.  The post that he is referring to is the one where I share my reactions/reads to the flurry of votes that happened at the beginning of D-2.  If you go back and look at that post, it doesn't look like it is just trying to look townie. 

I have a lot of unexplained votes D-2.  I have been sick since last Tuesday and had tons of schoolwork coming up to the Thanksgiving break.  I spent a ton of time sleeping when I would usually be posting on the forum.

My vote on Hydrad.  Hydrad was super lurking at this point.  It is never scummy to put a pressure vote on someone who is super lurking so they come out of their cave and help town win the game.  You can't have reads on super-lurkers until they post.  I'll also point out that my repeated voting for Hydrad is because my first vote didn't get counted and then I forgot the colon.  I did like the emphasis it put on it though.

I put a fake L-1 on yuma.  This can hardly be looked at as scummy.  I wanted to look for reactions and maybe even a fake hammer.  I think my fake vote definitely created a lot of discussion and was towny.  Haddock's reaction to that looked similar to his reaction to faust getting a wagon on him in GOP mafia. 

Haddock and I have an argument over whether I have been helpful or not.  I agree that unexplained votes are unhelpful, but they are more helpful than not voting at all.  That is just what I had time for this past week.

SS does a reread of me and says that I look bad, but doesn't explain the reasons. I'm then asked to respond to the case by faust.  I'm not sure how you respond to the case that you look bad...  If ss wants to explain further I will respond. 

Gkrieg:  ~35 posts
I actually reread gkrieg first, and had the energy to put most of his posts into categories of some kind or another.
Of the 35 or so posts, I had
9 in "Meaningless",
2 in "Odd/Misleading questions",
3 in "Fighting the RR lynch",
5 in "Completely unexplained votes".

In terms of broader subcategories, that puts fully 2/3 of his posts in one I'd call "Generally unhelpful".  When called out for this he came up with just one or two fairly weak reasons for his behaviour, none of which he'd mentioned before.

He makes several jokes about things (things that definitely are not scummy) being scummy.  Strongly antitown behaviour.  Then accuses Hydrad of being antitown for no reason.  The irony.

Has been pretty consistent in his vote the entire game.  He's only voted for me, yuma and faust.  At any point.  This consistency of behaviour, combined with the rest, amounts to my having a pretty darn strong scumread on gkrieg.

Oh and his wagon positioning is fairly bad as well.

I don't understand what the bolded part means. 
Can you point me to the jokes that I make?  I didn't see them when reading through.  I don't see how making jokes is "Strongly antitown behaviour.  You would have to lynch several people every game if it were. 
Consistency of votes can be scummy.  I honestly just haven't followed the game close enough to have better reads.  Haddock lies in saying that I have only voted for him, yuma, and faust.  At that point I had voted for him, yuma, faust, II, and Hydrad.  I had specifically been found scummy for the Hydrad votes so I'm surprised he left those out of his reread. 

I don't think my wagon positioning is bad D1.  I already explained my voting D2 in this post. 

The last thing people are finding me scummy for is "trying to put the attention on other people".  This is the worst argument.  I know I'm town.  I know that at least one person pushing my lynch is not town.  My job as town is not only to convince other people that I'm town, but to find the last scum and the SK.  Just by peoples' reactions to me, I'm trying to figure that out.  I'm not trying to shift the focus, I'm scumhunting. 

I'm pretty sure I got everything, but there are obviously some things I might have missed.  Hopefully you see that I'm town and I don't need to have my first mislynch (I think) this game.

[Haddock]

I put a fake L-1 on yuma.  This can hardly be looked at as scummy.  I wanted to look for reactions and maybe even a fake hammer.  I think my fake vote definitely created a lot of discussion and was towny.  Haddock's reaction to that looked similar to his reaction to faust getting a wagon on him in GOP mafia. 

I'm not sure I buy the attracting-a-false-hammer thing.  But in reality that L-1 thing might be one of the towniest things you have going for you; L-1 is probably the most conspicuous vote you can make, why would scum draw attention like that? 
I wasn't in GOP mafia.  You might be talking about Switch except that faust died D1, and I have no memory of anything like that happening...

Gkrieg:  ~35 posts
I actually reread gkrieg first, and had the energy to put most of his posts into categories of some kind or another.
Of the 35 or so posts, I had
9 in "Meaningless",
2 in "Odd/Misleading questions",
3 in "Fighting the RR lynch",
5 in "Completely unexplained votes".

In terms of broader subcategories, that puts fully 2/3 of his posts in one I'd call "Generally unhelpful".  When called out for this he came up with just one or two fairly weak reasons for his behaviour, none of which he'd mentioned before.

He makes several jokes about things (things that definitely are not scummy) being scummy.  Strongly antitown behaviour.  Then accuses Hydrad of being antitown for no reason.  The irony.

Has been pretty consistent in his vote the entire game.  He's only voted for me, yuma and faust.  At any point.  This consistency of behaviour, combined with the rest, amounts to my having a pretty darn strong scumread on gkrieg.

Oh and his wagon positioning is fairly bad as well.

I don't understand what the bolded part means. 

The bolded part refers to this post of yours:

How have I been unhelpful?  I voted Hydrad to get him participating again, I voted yuma because I think he is scummier between yuma/RR, and Haddock had a scummy moment to start the day, took some pressure and disappeared, then reappeared.  I've also been sick this week so I've been doing a lot of sleeping during my usual forum time.

You only make this explanation when called out. 
Your vote on Hydrad had been unexplained up until this point, and "to get him participating again" is the easiest reason you can give for voting someone as scum. 
You also accuse me of disappearing, which is at the very least extremely misleading; I'd actually posted about 3 posts earlier, and even if that was PPE I had been posting pretty actively all the way up until that point.  Maybe less actively than some, but more than most.  Your reasons for pushing me there look extremely opportunistic.

Can you point me to the jokes that I make?  I didn't see them when reading through.  I don't see how making jokes is "Strongly antitown behaviour.  You would have to lynch several people every game if it were. 

Joke may be the wrong word.  They are just little side comments that push suspicion onto people for no good reason.  Like this:

@Haddock: Do you have town reads on anybody?

and this:

Well voting for someone should mean at least a little teensy tiny smidge that you want to lynch someone

Consistency of votes can be scummy.  I honestly just haven't followed the game close enough to have better reads.  Haddock lies in saying that I have only voted for him, yuma, and faust.  At that point I had voted for him, yuma, faust, II, and Hydrad.  I had specifically been found scummy for the Hydrad votes so I'm surprised he left those out of his reread. 

I don't think my wagon positioning is bad D1.  I already explained my voting D2 in this post. 

Hydrad I legitimately missed, and I have no idea why.  That's on me, and I apologise.

But I was intentionally not counting your Igu vote because you later claimed it was RVS, so I figured you'd want it struck from the record, particularly since that wagon ended up mislynching. 
On which note, yes your wagon positioning is bad D1.  Sure, so was a lot of people's, but that doesn't absolve it.

Still, this post of yours looks fairly good.  I'll keep thinking, but you need to present some reads on some people other than me, otherwise you really can't claim to be scumhunting.

[ashersky]

Full reread of Hydrad:

#1 - /in (pre-game)

Day 1:
#2 - fluff
#3 - joke
#4 - RVS votes WW
#5 - RVS votes RR
#6 - flavor joke
#7 - Awaclus joke

Day 2:
#8 - joke
#9 - supportive of a Haddock post
#10 - says RR feels town, includes self-aware joke about him turning out to be scum
#11 - response to yuma about RR backpedaling, says he wouldn't have done that
#12 - tells Joseph we have never seen scum RR
#13 - quick post to say RR is still town
#14 - fluff
#15 - calls a post by yuma interesting/good point on RR
#16 - fluff about SS
#17 - finds Haddock slightly scummy, based on Haddock being scum in his first game
#18 - agrees he himself is an okay lynch based on inactivity (as stated by RR)
#19 - reason for lurking (job)
#20 - says he is unsure between yuma and RR
#21 - reads post; says gkrieg and RR are towny, faust/ss/yuma/ash/ww are null, joseph/awaclus also kinda null, haddock as only scum read
#22 - says he doesn't like the list, will re-read
#23 - asks Awaclus what his reasons were for voting Haddock
#24 - joke
#25 - gives his thoughts on yuma (in response to RR), basically hedges hardcore
#26 - talks about RR, says yuma's made a good case, still leans townish but might be talking himself into a lynch
#27 - response to RR, says the speech gave him towny vibes, something about gut vs. logic, keeping himself open to the option to vote
#28 - says he wants to trust his gut more
#29 - votes for Haddock
#30 - odd post about answering for others, something about faust's frustrations
#31 - responds to Haddock's response to his vote, calls his vote unfair but wants it somewhere, still hedging on yuma vs. RR
#32 - says working is why he's lurking
#33 - says he's looking forward to RR's next speech
#34 - points out that RR hasn't been seen as scum, so the defensiveness isn't a sure meta tell
#35 - asks RR if he considers faust an IC
#36 - comforts RR about not knowing his own meta well
#37 - asks about the godfather scumslip thing
#38 - explains the the godfather scumslip thing (oddly, as he had asked about it in his last post) to RR
#39 - fluff
#40 - fluff
#41 - believes yuma's claim, happy there's a Haddock wagon, would lynch RR over yuma
#42 - would also lynch gkrieg
#43 - says he doesn't want to lynch RR, but would to avoid no lynch; doesn't want to lynch yuma, wants to lynch gkrieg and Haddock
#44 - in response to faust's vote on yuma about targets, says he moves yuma into equal footing with RR
#45 - says he's willing to lynch RR anyway now for info, surprised haddock wagon got momentum
#46 - twilight post, confused about RR
#47 - twilight post, think RR said he's scum to make people happy, is still town
#48 - twilight post, finally sees RR is scum, tells him he did well

Day 3:
#49 - fluff, says good job yuma
#50 - says "so an SK and death eater" are all that's left
#51 - votes for faust, no reason given
#52 - says first instinct is bus driver being why yuma is dead
#53 - says he likes the faust lynch but doesn't want a short day
#54 - unvote
#55 - claims not-vig, says gkrieg could be the scum, expect scum off-wagon
#56 - puts gkrieg at L-1
#57 - points out that it felt weird that the gkrieg lynch is easy, but realized there are no partners to resist
#58 - fluff

[ashersky]

So...he was fairly consistent throughout about how he felt about RR...thing is, man, it doesn't really feel like a scum partner talking.  If anything, it's more like they're dating or something.

His flip flop on Haddock is odd to me -- he was supportive of Haddock in #9, then pushed him all day as the alternative to RR.  Little to no interaction with Awaclus at all.  His willingness to vote gkrieg on D2 and D3 aren't based on anything he's said.

I felt like there were some usual town!Hydrad posts, but overall he's not looking great.

[Haddock]

I put a fake L-1 on yuma.  This can hardly be looked at as scummy.  I wanted to look for reactions and maybe even a fake hammer.  I think my fake vote definitely created a lot of discussion and was towny.  Haddock's reaction to that looked similar to his reaction to faust getting a wagon on him in GOP mafia. 

...
I wasn't in GOP mafia.  You might be talking about Switch except that faust died D1, and I have no memory of anything like that happening...

Right, sorry I follow.  You're talking about my supposed whiteknighting of faust in switch, right?  Whelp, that wasn't whiteknighting, it was just a weird thing, my first game.  I even talked about it after the game, and I think I would have done the same weird thing as town.

In any case, that was completely different to this.  This was well into D2, and you'd put somebody at what I thought was L-1, very soon after they'd claimed.  Trying to avoid derphammers is protown, particularly when there's still discussion to be done, particularly particularly when the person being voted for ends up being a town PR.  I mean seriously, why would scum react the way I did there?  Either they'd "hammer", which is what you claim you were pulling for, or they'd just wait, shut up and hope a lynch went through on yuma.

PPE.

[Haddock]

Hmm.  While I'm still not sold on town!gkrieg, I'm no longer sure enough that he's scum to be comfortable with him at L-1.
unvote.

Ash, that's a great reread, thankyou.     Looking at that I probably agree Hydrad's not looking great, but I think the interaction with RR is unlikely partner interaction when I see it.  I mean, congratulating a good scum game and consolation?  If you're scum, don't you just put that in the QT for RR to read later?  It's not something I can see scum faking for town points either; I don't think that would even occur to me as scum.

[silverspawn]

Hydrad is towny I think

maybe it's Joseph. I'll try to look more into him soon-ish

gkrieg's speach is sort of towny, but he did have a lot of time to do it and it's fairly long and prepared and so... we gotta give scum!him some credit. not sure

but it does make me feel a bit worse about the lynch

[ashersky]

Joseph has 37 posts:

#1 - /in

Day 1:
#2 - RVS votes yuma
#3 - votes me for saying hider should claim
#4 - Twilight post, fluff

Day 2:
#5 - Agrees with my point about SS not reading the flavor being scummy.
#6 - Joke
#7 - Fluff
#8 - Doesn't think Haddock lynch is a good idea.
#9 - yuma joke
#10 - votes RR for saying things are personal even though they aren't
#11 - says hammering town early on D1 was scummy
#12 - arguing a bit with Awaclus about hammering town as any alignment
#13 - joke
#14 - asks if RR has been scum a lot after a post of his reminded him of how he would be as scum
#15 - agrees with me that RR should stay saying "don't lynch me"
#16 - says he's rereading
#17 - sort of agrees with me that RR might have pulled the self-vote trigger early, votes faust as scummier of those involved
#18 - points out Hydrad had posted so prod is useless
#19 - responds to a few posts, including liking a yuma argument against RR, slight town read on WW, and thinking faust and I are crazy enough to pull a gambit
#20 - moving closer to okay with RR lynch, still thinks faust is scummier
#21 - joke regarding faust voting him
#22 - asks faust why he's frustrated with him
#23 - says he's busy IRL with work
#24 - time zone sleep talk
#25 - gives scum reads as RR, Hydrad, Haddock
#26 - says RR sounds like scum!him when he was new
#27 - sees the RR defensiveness as scummy
#28 - posts to avoid prod
#29 - votes yuma for "odd" claim, lists yuma and RR as scummier than Haddock now, still thinks RR is scummy
#30 - unvotes after yuma's full claim, prefers RR to Haddock and puts RR to L-1
#31 - time fluff

Day 3:
#32 - Not a vig, assumes faust is town, sort of sees last mafia as hydrad or gkrieg based on wagon analysis done by ash
#33 - Assumes last mafia was off-wagon due to difficulty of lynching RR
#34 - Responds to a Haddock reread, doesn't really disagree, reiterates that he thinks gkrieg is the scum
#35 - Agrees that there is no need to rush, says he thinks final mafia is in gkrieg or Hydrad, thinks Haddock is more than VT
#36 - Says easy lynch isn't always a bad one
#37 - Says will do more this weekend

[ashersky]

I'm pretty sure #30 means he's not RR's partner.

[silverspawn]

hm

[Haddock]

SS, you may have answered this question before, but I need help here; what do you think of ash?
I really am lost when it comes to reading him, and you've been around a while.  Loving his rereads, but I could see scum!ash going to that sort of trouble to appear towny.
I honestly don't know at this point.

[silverspawn]

SS, you may have answered this question before, but I need help here; what do you think of ash?
I really am lost when it comes to reading him, and you've been around a while.  Loving his rereads, but I could see scum!ash going to that sort of trouble to appear towny.
I honestly don't know at this point.

well - honestly, he's probably the SK. This game reminds me a lot of best!game!ever!silo!mafia where ash was the SK and also put a ton of effort into catching the last scum

But his analysis that game was completely genuine and accurate and we caught the final scum with it, so I don't have doubts that the above rereads are similarly genuine, and hopefully accurate. both town!ash and SK!ash would be genuine here.

seeing him as the final mafia, I have a lot more problems with. Sure, this could be the one game where he decides to bus for once, but... more likely it's not. Also, I sorta feel like if ash was in the team, the mafia team would have worked out... well, better. It feels like mafia is just crashing and burning here.

all of that said, I'm not good at reading him either. I think faust might be.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 3.5

gkrieg (2): silverspawn, Hydrad
Haddock (1): ashersky
Hydrad (1): gkrieg

not voting (3): faust, Joseph, Haddock

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Day ends Tuesday, December 1st at 10 p.m.

[EFHW]

The owls came again trying to deliver the mail, but were once again scared away by the magic of the Arch.  One owl dropped a cylindrical package that landed on Lupin’s head and fell to the floor.  He picked it up and unrolled it.  It was the latest issue of The Quibbler and these were the headlines:

“Singer Stubby Boardman missing and presumed dead”

"Scandal afield! Rumors flying that golden snitch actually pyrite!"
"New Muggle-Wizard Business Partnership Launches First
Spell-powered Car Prototype for Mass Production" 

Lupin exclaimed, "What in the name of Godric Gryffindor? Of course the Snitch isn't made of pyrite, it's made of a high-quality spell-iminium, it's the only substance that can contain the power of the charms it has to have on it! Everybody knows that, seriously." He tossed the paper aside disdainfully.  "This is NOT the time." Luna came over and picked up the magazine, tenderly smoothing it out and checking for bent pages.  "Never mind Professor, I'll take it. Daddy said this issue would have some astounding news.  Wait until he hears about the Death Eater impersonating Stubby Boardman!"