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[yuma]

so do we want to lynch w/o hearing from uos/jimmm like at all? I am kinda at the point where I don't think we will get much from them today regardless and I actually kinda like the wifom situation that puts mafia in (assuming uos and jimmmm aren't mafia of course) so I think I am ok with it...

[Awaclus]

so do we want to lynch w/o hearing from uos/jimmm like at all? I am kinda at the point where I don't think we will get much from them today regardless and I actually kinda like the wifom situation that puts mafia in (assuming uos and jimmmm aren't mafia of course) so I think I am ok with it...

I don't think we can assume that UoS and Jimmmm aren't mafia.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, I caught up with this game.

PPS should stop self-voting. TA doesn't really look all that scummy to me. Hydrad is null.

As useful as I expected.

[Witherweaver]

so do we want to lynch w/o hearing from uos/jimmm like at all? I am kinda at the point where I don't think we will get much from them today regardless and I actually kinda like the wifom situation that puts mafia in (assuming uos and jimmmm aren't mafia of course) so I think I am ok with it...

What WIFOM situation?  Is this also assuming PPS is Mafia?

[yuma]

so do we want to lynch w/o hearing from uos/jimmm like at all? I am kinda at the point where I don't think we will get much from them today regardless and I actually kinda like the wifom situation that puts mafia in (assuming uos and jimmmm aren't mafia of course) so I think I am ok with it...

What WIFOM situation?  Is this also assuming PPS is Mafia?

meaning that neither player has given any sort of read on anyone... if Jimmm/UoS are in fact town, mafia has absolutely no idea as to where they stand on them, reading townie or mafia. Now, mafia does have other reasons to NK people (PR hunting, mason targeting, etc), but this setup is a bit complicated in that regard... but generally suspicion is a pretty good reason to NK someone, but in this case mafia just doesn't have that information.

Plus both Jimmmmm and UoS are really good players when fully active, which RL situations have denied them... and under normal circumstances could be viable NK or mafia PR targets (if they have them)

Mostly it is another decision point for mafia to force them to make without much information and that is an other point where they could make a mistake and I like that...

I don't think PPS's alignment matters too much in this regard

[Witherweaver]

I really don't have any scum impression from PPS.  I don't remember if I ever played a game with scum!PPS, but he seems a lot like he usually does (as town).  It could just be his play style.

[Twistedarcher]

TA makes a valid case regardless if he is scum or town. The fact is he has tunneled me from the beginning. It might be easy to say I have tunneled him but that is not the case. I have continually looked at other possibilities and strongly insinuated how I feel on other people's potential scum alignment. Along the way I have reviewed TA's progression and it has always read as scum to me.

He presents a case I can't argue with so the easiest thing to do is prove my flip as town. If he is town I think he would be looking at other options and not tunneling so much. I believe I was selected early on as a strong contender for scum targeting and TA is pushing that agenda. As scum it is really not smart to do this because my flips shows him as likely scum so the campaign has to be to diminish that possibility now much as Yuma is doing.

Tldr I think TA is scum but that vote clearly won't carry so the next best thing is to follow his vote on me so that my flip reveals his true intentions.

Besides, TA's case on me states that I bus heavily as scum. Clearly he knows I will flip town or else he is proven to be my scum partner were I to flip otherwise. I feel we are both kind of deadlocked into our current positions.

If you're really town, and me pushing you as scum would be 'stupid', why do you think I'm scum over town? Are you being inconsistent or do you really think that poorly of my play?

[Twistedarcher]

TA makes a valid case regardless if he is scum or town. The fact is he has tunneled me from the beginning. It might be easy to say I have tunneled him but that is not the case. I have continually looked at other possibilities and strongly insinuated how I feel on other people's potential scum alignment. Along the way I have reviewed TA's progression and it has always read as scum to me.

He presents a case I can't argue with so the easiest thing to do is prove my flip as town. If he is town I think he would be looking at other options and not tunneling so much. I believe I was selected early on as a strong contender for scum targeting and TA is pushing that agenda. As scum it is really not smart to do this because my flips shows him as likely scum so the campaign has to be to diminish that possibility now much as Yuma is doing.

Tldr I think TA is scum but that vote clearly won't carry so the next best thing is to follow his vote on me so that my flip reveals his true intentions.

Besides, TA's case on me states that I bus heavily as scum. Clearly he knows I will flip town or else he is proven to be my scum partner were I to flip otherwise. I feel we are both kind of deadlocked into our current positions.

From my experience this never ever ever happens. Scum want to be flexible, not to arbitrarily pick a mislynch.

[ashersky]

PPS, if you really want to convince folks that TA is scum, you are not doing it the right way.

You are right, if you flip town, we'll know you were sincere.  We won't know if you were right.

[pingpongsam]

TA makes a valid case regardless if he is scum or town. The fact is he has tunneled me from the beginning. It might be easy to say I have tunneled him but that is not the case. I have continually looked at other possibilities and strongly insinuated how I feel on other people's potential scum alignment. Along the way I have reviewed TA's progression and it has always read as scum to me.

He presents a case I can't argue with so the easiest thing to do is prove my flip as town. If he is town I think he would be looking at other options and not tunneling so much. I believe I was selected early on as a strong contender for scum targeting and TA is pushing that agenda. As scum it is really not smart to do this because my flips shows him as likely scum so the campaign has to be to diminish that possibility now much as Yuma is doing.

Tldr I think TA is scum but that vote clearly won't carry so the next best thing is to follow his vote on me so that my flip reveals his true intentions.

Besides, TA's case on me states that I bus heavily as scum. Clearly he knows I will flip town or else he is proven to be my scum partner were I to flip otherwise. I feel we are both kind of deadlocked into our current positions.

If you're really town, and me pushing you as scum would be 'stupid', why do you think I'm scum over town? Are you being inconsistent or do you really think that poorly of my play?

Yes, I think you are playing terribly as scum and am appalled that no one but Faust sees it.

[pingpongsam]

TA makes a valid case regardless if he is scum or town. The fact is he has tunneled me from the beginning. It might be easy to say I have tunneled him but that is not the case. I have continually looked at other possibilities and strongly insinuated how I feel on other people's potential scum alignment. Along the way I have reviewed TA's progression and it has always read as scum to me.

He presents a case I can't argue with so the easiest thing to do is prove my flip as town. If he is town I think he would be looking at other options and not tunneling so much. I believe I was selected early on as a strong contender for scum targeting and TA is pushing that agenda. As scum it is really not smart to do this because my flips shows him as likely scum so the campaign has to be to diminish that possibility now much as Yuma is doing.

Tldr I think TA is scum but that vote clearly won't carry so the next best thing is to follow his vote on me so that my flip reveals his true intentions.

Besides, TA's case on me states that I bus heavily as scum. Clearly he knows I will flip town or else he is proven to be my scum partner were I to flip otherwise. I feel we are both kind of deadlocked into our current positions.

From my experience this never ever ever happens. Scum want to be flexible, not to arbitrarily pick a mislynch.

In my experience we have done exactly this, picked a player we wanted dead asap.

[Twistedarcher]

TA makes a valid case regardless if he is scum or town. The fact is he has tunneled me from the beginning. It might be easy to say I have tunneled him but that is not the case. I have continually looked at other possibilities and strongly insinuated how I feel on other people's potential scum alignment. Along the way I have reviewed TA's progression and it has always read as scum to me.

He presents a case I can't argue with so the easiest thing to do is prove my flip as town. If he is town I think he would be looking at other options and not tunneling so much. I believe I was selected early on as a strong contender for scum targeting and TA is pushing that agenda. As scum it is really not smart to do this because my flips shows him as likely scum so the campaign has to be to diminish that possibility now much as Yuma is doing.

Tldr I think TA is scum but that vote clearly won't carry so the next best thing is to follow his vote on me so that my flip reveals his true intentions.

Besides, TA's case on me states that I bus heavily as scum. Clearly he knows I will flip town or else he is proven to be my scum partner were I to flip otherwise. I feel we are both kind of deadlocked into our current positions.

If you're really town, and me pushing you as scum would be 'stupid', why do you think I'm scum over town? Are you being inconsistent or do you really think that poorly of my play?

Yes, I think you are playing terribly as scum and am appalled that no one but Faust sees it.

Well now you're not only wrong but you're demeaning my play, I expect an apology after the game

[pingpongsam]

PPS, if you really want to convince folks that TA is scum, you are not doing it the right way.

You are right, if you flip town, we'll know you were sincere.  We won't know if you were right.

I can sympathize but I don't see a solid alternative. I sincerely think TA is scum.
My opening play succeeded from my perspective in drawing out valuable interaction. I concede that value is distorted for other players, so much so my own credibility is shot. The only credible thing I can do is flip town and then at least my reads become fully credible.

You can discover if I am right by flipping TA next. As I understand it, we can't do it in reverse order. Besides the trap has already been set if TA is scum, he has made it plain that I am a buster (because I am) and so I am the logical next lynch should he flip scum and the logical next lynch should he flip town. So, the order of operations becomes moot.

[Witherweaver]

TA makes a valid case regardless if he is scum or town. The fact is he has tunneled me from the beginning. It might be easy to say I have tunneled him but that is not the case. I have continually looked at other possibilities and strongly insinuated how I feel on other people's potential scum alignment. Along the way I have reviewed TA's progression and it has always read as scum to me.

He presents a case I can't argue with so the easiest thing to do is prove my flip as town. If he is town I think he would be looking at other options and not tunneling so much. I believe I was selected early on as a strong contender for scum targeting and TA is pushing that agenda. As scum it is really not smart to do this because my flips shows him as likely scum so the campaign has to be to diminish that possibility now much as Yuma is doing.

Tldr I think TA is scum but that vote clearly won't carry so the next best thing is to follow his vote on me so that my flip reveals his true intentions.

Besides, TA's case on me states that I bus heavily as scum. Clearly he knows I will flip town or else he is proven to be my scum partner were I to flip otherwise. I feel we are both kind of deadlocked into our current positions.

If you're really town, and me pushing you as scum would be 'stupid', why do you think I'm scum over town? Are you being inconsistent or do you really think that poorly of my play?

Yes, I think you are playing terribly as scum and am appalled that no one but Faust sees it.

Well now you're not only wrong but you're demeaning my play, I expect an apology after the game

He's only offending if you're actually Town

[pingpongsam]

TA makes a valid case regardless if he is scum or town. The fact is he has tunneled me from the beginning. It might be easy to say I have tunneled him but that is not the case. I have continually looked at other possibilities and strongly insinuated how I feel on other people's potential scum alignment. Along the way I have reviewed TA's progression and it has always read as scum to me.

He presents a case I can't argue with so the easiest thing to do is prove my flip as town. If he is town I think he would be looking at other options and not tunneling so much. I believe I was selected early on as a strong contender for scum targeting and TA is pushing that agenda. As scum it is really not smart to do this because my flips shows him as likely scum so the campaign has to be to diminish that possibility now much as Yuma is doing.

Tldr I think TA is scum but that vote clearly won't carry so the next best thing is to follow his vote on me so that my flip reveals his true intentions.

Besides, TA's case on me states that I bus heavily as scum. Clearly he knows I will flip town or else he is proven to be my scum partner were I to flip otherwise. I feel we are both kind of deadlocked into our current positions.

If you're really town, and me pushing you as scum would be 'stupid', why do you think I'm scum over town? Are you being inconsistent or do you really think that poorly of my play?

Yes, I think you are playing terribly as scum and am appalled that no one but Faust sees it.

Well now you're not only wrong but you're demeaning my play, I expect an apology after the game

So, then, you admit you are scum, otherwise no apology needed.

[Witherweaver]

PPS, if you really want to convince folks that TA is scum, you are not doing it the right way.

You are right, if you flip town, we'll know you were sincere.  We won't know if you were right.

I can sympathize but I don't see a solid alternative. I sincerely think TA is scum.
My opening play succeeded from my perspective in drawing out valuable interaction. I concede that value is distorted for other players, so much so my own credibility is shot. The only credible thing I can do is flip town and then at least my reads become fully credible.

You can discover if I am right by flipping TA next. As I understand it, we can't do it in reverse order. Besides the trap has already been set if TA is scum, he has made it plain that I am a buster (because I am) and so I am the logical next lynch should he flip scum and the logical next lynch should he flip town. So, the order of operations becomes moot.

Martyrdom is banal.  This isn't "the only thing you can do".  The other thing you can do is continue to play; you're not set as the lynch yet.

[pingpongsam]

PPS, if you really want to convince folks that TA is scum, you are not doing it the right way.

You are right, if you flip town, we'll know you were sincere.  We won't know if you were right.

I can sympathize but I don't see a solid alternative. I sincerely think TA is scum.
My opening play succeeded from my perspective in drawing out valuable interaction. I concede that value is distorted for other players, so much so my own credibility is shot. The only credible thing I can do is flip town and then at least my reads become fully credible.

You can discover if I am right by flipping TA next. As I understand it, we can't do it in reverse order. Besides the trap has already been set if TA is scum, he has made it plain that I am a buster (because I am) and so I am the logical next lynch should he flip scum and the logical next lynch should he flip town. So, the order of operations becomes moot.

*Busser

[pingpongsam]

PPS, if you really want to convince folks that TA is scum, you are not doing it the right way.

You are right, if you flip town, we'll know you were sincere.  We won't know if you were right.

I can sympathize but I don't see a solid alternative. I sincerely think TA is scum.
My opening play succeeded from my perspective in drawing out valuable interaction. I concede that value is distorted for other players, so much so my own credibility is shot. The only credible thing I can do is flip town and then at least my reads become fully credible.

You can discover if I am right by flipping TA next. As I understand it, we can't do it in reverse order. Besides the trap has already been set if TA is scum, he has made it plain that I am a buster (because I am) and so I am the logical next lynch should he flip scum and the logical next lynch should he flip town. So, the order of operations becomes moot.

Martyrdom is banal.  This isn't "the only thing you can do".  The other thing you can do is continue to play; you're not set as the lynch yet.

You misquote me, sure there are other things I can do but none of them strike me as solid alternatives.

[pingpongsam]

I was pontificating on policy voting which on some items I agree with (lurkers mostly). Ostensibly policy votes are to dissuade behavior but if they are not effective at dissuading he behavior then are they even policy votes or scum manipulation tools or just excuses to have a vote somewhere? I see other people having better things to do than punish me for self voting but I'm betting they don't see any solid alternatives either.

[pingpongsam]

Effectively I'm being told several people don't like how I play the game. Deity having a better than average track record as either alignment my play style is punished. At some point I'm either banned for playing or auto lynched D1 for being present in the game. The only other alternative is for me to assimilate a dictated play style.

[pingpongsam]

Effectively I'm being told several people don't like how I play the game. Deity having a better than average track record as either alignment my play style is punished. At some point I'm either banned for playing or auto lynched D1 for being present in the game. The only other alternative is for me to assimilate a dictated play style.

Despite, not deity. Autocorrect is on a roll today.

[Witherweaver]

So let's say both you and TA are town.  What would your analysis be conditional on that?  I.e., who is scum?

[pingpongsam]

So let's say both you and TA are town.  What would your analysis be conditional on that?  I.e., who is scum?

Definitely hydrad. Not only did I read him scum from early on but now that my wagon looks sealed he is already cultivating the next one. He is purposely staying off a wagon he knows is town and cooking up the next victim.

[Witherweaver]

Cool, let's lynch Hydrad

Vote: Hydrad

[pingpongsam]

Cool, let's lynch Hydrad

Vote: Hydrad

Because PPS says so or what?