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[silverspawn]

Vote Count 4.2

UmbrageOfSnow (1): chairs

Not Voting (6): Awaclus, ashersky, yuma, gkrieg13, UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends at Oct 11, 05 PM forum time. That is in 5 days and 2+ hours.

[ashersky]

I will have time tomorrow to post.  Have been killer busy so far this week and it isn't letting up.

I'm assuming chairs expected a quick hammer?  That moment of truth comment was just odd.  Not like he put him to L-1.

Seems to me, expecting a triple quick hammer means chairs knows he's voting for town...

[chairs]

I will have time tomorrow to post.  Have been killer busy so far this week and it isn't letting up.

I'm assuming chairs expected a quick hammer?  That moment of truth comment was just odd.  Not like he put him to L-1.

Seems to me, expecting a triple quick hammer means chairs knows he's voting for town...

I'm not expecting a quick hammer, but voting does make it a possibility.

[Jimmmmm]

Occam's razor, people.  This is all interesting talk, but basically you are all just pointing out how great my design is.

If you want to argue the likelihood of a setup being rolled as a reason to say we are lying (hint: that's a fallacy), you can flip it and argue that why would scum intentionally lie about something so statistically unlikely?

If you were in a Mason pair, you'd have no issue at all with there being another Mason pair, despite the fact that the chances of rolling MMMMMM is literally one in a million?

Considering we've had a doc and rb flip?  Yes, I'd have issue with that.

Are you claiming mason now?

Belligerent and Mean Jimmmmm is generally town!Jimmmmm at least.

How have I been mean?

[yuma]

I will have time tomorrow to post.  Have been killer busy so far this week and it isn't letting up.

I'm assuming chairs expected a quick hammer?  That moment of truth comment was just odd.  Not like he put him to L-1.

Seems to me, expecting a triple quick hammer means chairs knows he's voting for town...

I'm not expecting a quick hammer, but voting does make it a possibility.

why haven't you unvoted?

[yuma]

I will have time tomorrow to post.  Have been killer busy so far this week and it isn't letting up.

I'm assuming chairs expected a quick hammer?  That moment of truth comment was just odd.  Not like he put him to L-1.

Seems to me, expecting a triple quick hammer means chairs knows he's voting for town...

this scenario isn't possible...

what you are implying is that chair's is mafia and knew he would be voting for town and then expected three other scumbuddies to join him to quick hammer, which would put us at 4 mafia (obviously impossible).

now chairs could be mafia hoping another townie would be really dumb and join him on lynch of someone who was town so his other two scum buddies could quick hammer... but all of this is relying on UoS being town...

[chairs]

I will have time tomorrow to post.  Have been killer busy so far this week and it isn't letting up.

I'm assuming chairs expected a quick hammer?  That moment of truth comment was just odd.  Not like he put him to L-1.

Seems to me, expecting a triple quick hammer means chairs knows he's voting for town...

I'm not expecting a quick hammer, but voting does make it a possibility.

why haven't you unvoted?

Why would I unvote? Ultimately, the die has to be cast.

I will have time tomorrow to post.  Have been killer busy so far this week and it isn't letting up.

I'm assuming chairs expected a quick hammer?  That moment of truth comment was just odd.  Not like he put him to L-1.

Seems to me, expecting a triple quick hammer means chairs knows he's voting for town...

this scenario isn't possible...

what you are implying is that chair's is mafia and knew he would be voting for town and then expected three other scumbuddies to join him to quick hammer, which would put us at 4 mafia (obviously impossible).

now chairs could be mafia hoping another townie would be really dumb and join him on lynch of someone who was town so his other two scum buddies could quick hammer... but all of this is relying on UoS being town...

If I were Mafia I absolutely wouldn't vote first, instead hoping to rely on Town to plug a mislynch.


unvote so you have time to explain why I shouldn't be voting, though, just in case.

[Awaclus]

So, everyone except me and UoS were online at the same time and a quickhammer didn't happen. I guess that doesn't mean much though since scum might not want to try pulling off a triple quickhammer even if they could have.

[yuma]

unvote so you have time to explain why I shouldn't be voting, though, just in case.

Really I think it is premature to vote and to declare that you have "decided" before 1. UoS has even posted today at all. 2. before both ash and gkrieg have posted things that they have said they want to say 3. without ever explaining why you are voting for UoS--are you trying to be like Awaclus? We have one of him and I think that is enough.

But really the main reason is that if you are town and UoS is town then the 3 mafia could conceivably quickhammer (this would require the masons to be lying in this scenario but as we haven't completely and totally discounted that possibility I think it is just better to be safe. It isn't giving anything up, you aren't sacrificing anything. You can still vote for UoS in a few days. It is a low risk zero reward scenario and it will just make everyone else around breathe a little bit easier and instead of talking about whether or not we should be voting we can be talking about who to vote for and why

[yuma]

So, everyone except me and UoS were online at the same time and a quickhammer didn't happen. I guess that doesn't mean much though since scum might not want to try pulling off a triple quickhammer even if they could have.

or you are scum so you weren't around to quick hammer... or UoS is scum so mafia couldn't/wouldn't want to quick hammer

[ashersky]

I will have time tomorrow to post.  Have been killer busy so far this week and it isn't letting up.

I'm assuming chairs expected a quick hammer?  That moment of truth comment was just odd.  Not like he put him to L-1.

Seems to me, expecting a triple quick hammer means chairs knows he's voting for town...

this scenario isn't possible...

what you are implying is that chair's is mafia and knew he would be voting for town and then expected three other scumbuddies to join him to quick hammer, which would put us at 4 mafia (obviously impossible).

now chairs could be mafia hoping another townie would be really dumb and join him on lynch of someone who was town so his other two scum buddies could quick hammer... but all of this is relying on UoS being town...

The quick hammer wasn't possible there -- the voting with the "fear" of a quick hammer was more what I meant. 

I guess it still doesn't make much sense there, I thought it felt like a contrived pull for town cred.

[Awaclus]

So, everyone except me and UoS were online at the same time and a quickhammer didn't happen. I guess that doesn't mean much though since scum might not want to try pulling off a triple quickhammer even if they could have.

or you are scum so you weren't around to quick hammer... or UoS is scum so mafia couldn't/wouldn't want to quick hammer

Well, I know I'm not scum, I was mostly considering the implications regarding UoS and chairs. If we assume that mafia has the ability to quickhammer without the risk of someone unvoting and making the quickhammerers look awkward, then either UoS or chairs must be scum. But obviously quickhammering is risky, and it's possible that mafia wouldn't want to try it even if they could.

[yuma]

so are we going to lynch awaclus today or what?

[Awaclus]

so are we going to lynch awaclus today or what?

No.

[ashersky]

For referencem, claimed VTs post count:

chairs - 50
UOS - 108
yuma - 407
Awaclus - 118
Jimmmmm - 71

[ashersky]

Re-read of days 1-3, with notes, of Jimmmmm:

Day 1:

#1 - fluff
#2 - Mason theory; thinks 2nd mason doesn't need to claim Day 1, doesn't think scum claims Masons on D1
#3 - Mason theory; clarifies he isn't against the 2nd mason claiming, but doesn't feel it is required
#4 - fluff
#5 - sorry for lurking/check-in post
#6 - asks if a UB should claim
#7 - answers his own question with a yes, misunderstands how UB works, claims not a UB
#8 - responds to me pointing out we had discussed the UB claim thing already
#9 - responds to me correcting his misunderstanding of the UB
#10 - sorry for lurking/check-in post; states will give PPS a read
#11 - responds to faust complaining about Jimmmmm's lurking
#12 - READ pps is "Frustated Townish"
#13 - READ TA is Townish
#14 - responds to yuma asking what PPS has to be frustrated about and basically says his own actions
#15 - scumslip joke
#16 - VOTES! votes for faust demanding Jimmmmm vote for someone
#17 - asks if Faust is the other mason
#18 - or the UB
#19 - found faust's claim, unvotes
#20 - asks if forgetting a scum role constitutes a townslip; is in response to faust not trusting his gut scumread on WW
#21 - continues conversation with faust, asks how hard it is not to pay attention to a possible setup
#22 - concedes in his argument with faust that forgetting Godfather might be a good enough townslip for a D1 pass
#23 - agrees with me that we should not lynch gkrieg (yuma's idea)
#24 - asks why he is on PPS's will not lynch list
#25 - can't find reasons for WW votes and asks for case
#26 - READ not loving PPS, yuma, or TA lynches, says maybe Awa or UOS
#27 - responds to WW's explanation that he wanted to fakeclaim mason - asks if he's claiming
#28 - sees now that it was a plan to fakeclaim, asks why he would want to do that
#29 - thinks WW's reasoning for fakeclaiming mason was bad, would not think he was town
#30 - agrees with PPS that WW's thing was wierd
#31 - says WW would be lynched in response to him saying he wondered what would happen if he did the fakeclaim
#32 - asks UOS to show his main points against Awaclus
#33 - VOTES! for Awaclus, says mostly because he doesn't like other options
#34 - says one of my posts about Awaclus haters is all kinds of scummy

Day 2:

#35 - asks gkrieg what convinces him WW is scum.
#36 - responds to my case on WW, saying my points are correct, but not agreeing that they make WW scum
#37 - corrects some grammer in #36
#38 - READ quotes TA saying he lost motivation and says it sounds scummy
#39 - quotes a part of a TA post saying someone who is town and sure on D1 is a problem
#40 - responds to TA responding to #38, saying he's either town or lying, and either way it's something scum wants to do.

Day 3:

#41 - claims VT
#42 - quotes a yuma post and asks if it is a scumslip
#43 - READ list, with claims listed -- calls yuma frustrated town or conniving scum, but isn't lynching him; doesn't really believe TA's claim, null on the others, basically
#44 - TA asks why, says a few things raised alarm, plus the claim was unconvincing
#45 - TA asks about his mason pass, still insistent it was too risky for scum to claim mason on d1
#46 - fluff
#47 - he explains his scumslip argument against yuma, halfheartedly
#48 - says an outline of the case against yuma wouldn't hurt
#49 - thanks yuma for the outline, says he doesn't buy one line of reasoning (gotten close to lynched but survived)
#50 - yet another "checking in" post, VOTES! for TA, would also lynch UOS or chairs
#51 - VOTES! no lynch, stating "with 8 people" alive as the reason

[ashersky]

My takeaways:

--not a lot of content generated; asks a lot of questions (that's his style); very few votes as well
--some interaction with yuma, some with TA, not much with anyone else
--fairly not committal on reads across the board
--was generally of the mind to think scum wouldn't fakeclaim masons on D1

[ashersky]

Planning to do the other 4 still.

[silverspawn]

Vote Count 4.3

Not Voting (7): Awaclus, ashersky, yuma, gkrieg13, UmbrageOfSnow, Jimmmmm, chairs

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends at Oct 11, 05 PM forum time. That is in 4 days and 5+ hours.

[yuma]

So I am not going to do what ash did and do a post by post thing, cause that just doesn't work for me personally.

But what I am doing is going post by post and pulling posts that pop out at me or trends... and what I see from the first person I did this with (chairs) is a trend of unusual behavior. Examples:

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

If you are a town PR why would you hide as claiming VT? that would be silly.

And if all the mafia claimed VT that would be great! We would just lynch VTs and the pool size would be 3 mafia in 9 instead of 3 mafia in 12! Awesome!

Scumslip.

The only people who could have an assumption regarding PR count at this time are scum.

vote: yuma

calling me out for an alleged scumslip when I have a pretty established meta of hating scumslip and OMGUSing in response to them

I'll be honest, I'm voting you for information.

admitting to voting (PPS in this case) for information, again there is a f.ds meta that people don't like it when people vote for just information, especially when that is given as an excuse when pressured (here chairs just gives it as an excuse from the get go...

sidebar: chairs what information did you get from this lynch and did you use it?

ugh forget it, we're not getting through this Day meaningfully unless we just vote: awaclus, that much is clear.

this post is just weird. I mean, yay! a vote on awaclus, but it is just a weird vote that draws more attention to himself than it does the person he is voting for

vote: gkrieg13 And not moving until the other mason claims.

same as above... it was unnecessary and just brought more focus onto himself

well... moment of truth time, I think.

vote: UoS.

along with this, voting specifically when others have asked him not to. I don't like the timing of the vote, not the vote itself

So what I am seeing is a trend of chairs putting himself in unusual positions that are just kinda awkward. Again I come to the argument that scum does scummy things (at times, most of the time they are going to be just plain townie looking) not weird things. Town does weird things because, they don't care. They are town.

So from this I lean townier on chairs, more so than I do with Jimmmm from ash's synopsis which just left me feeling like he hasn't posted much of anything to really note down as significant (or weird or unusual) and that feels more like a scum!meta to me than what chairs has done thus far.

The one thing that is a hangup is the rationale to use information to lynch pps but then never going back to actually use it. That makes me raise my eyebrows because it isn't weird or unusual. It is quiet and in the background... and scummy.

[yuma]

Yeah okay, no Masons = 2-person scumteam.

Sigh. It is Day4. You should have a decent grasp of the game state and not leave town to try and figure out if this is just ignorance or a ploy for a town-slip.

Please!

I know, and I'm sorry.

this is kinda the one outlier for me on Jimmmmm, the one post that kinda made me sit up. As I said about it before I have a hard time seeing scum pretend to accidentally forget that they are part of a 3 man scum team when ash is in the game given he pretty much never falls for that and instead often votes people because he thinks they are trying to do just that.

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah okay, no Masons = 2-person scumteam.

Sigh. It is Day4. You should have a decent grasp of the game state and not leave town to try and figure out if this is just ignorance or a ploy for a town-slip.

Please!

I know, and I'm sorry.

this is kinda the one outlier for me on Jimmmmm, the one post that kinda made me sit up. As I said about it before I have a hard time seeing scum pretend to accidentally forget that they are part of a 3 man scum team when ash is in the game given he pretty much never falls for that and instead often votes people because he thinks they are trying to do just that.

For the record, my confusion was not about the current setup. For some reason I had it in my head that different rolls could produce different sized scum teams. I could have thought this as either alignment and it should not be taken as a slip.

[yuma]

So I don't want to be that guy because I think being that guy was part of a forum personality from before that I want to shed, but I am getting a little bit antsy in regard to time.

Deadline is Sunday and historically weekends haven't been great for posting, so in my mind I see us realistically having 2ish days. We don't want to rush obviously and we still have time, but at the rate we are going I think we want to be kinda getting everything out there in the next dayish or so and then have a dayish to decide.

UoS not being around is concerning as I really wanted him to double check some of the math above. I asked SS for a prod a while ago, but he seems to be a bit AWOL.

[chairs]

Yeah, also keep in mind that today is basically my last day of meaningful posting until Monday. I'll be able to read things, and maybe make very short comments, but any "please read this wall of quotes" is kind of out for me after today, mostly.

[gkrieg13]

this is very uncharacteristic of UoS. I've never played with him where he was scum. Anyone here played with scum UoS before?