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[2.71828.....]

I'm a bit behind on this game. But with all these people voting e for that one post...I could see scum killing faust to try and frame e.
It's pretty much WIFOM to me.

There's more of a case against e than anyone else. I suppose a case can be built on me here as well, but Faust did target e more than me, so I'm not sure.

So the new case on me: Faust thought I was scum, faust got NKed, I am scum.

But scum would never be that obvious, so clearly I am actually framed town.

But scum knew that town knew that scum would never be that obvious, so clearly I am scum.

I think the better explanation is that faust is consistently a good town player, he was active, useful, giving reads....all the things we want town to do.  So scum killed him.

[Seprix]

I'm a bit behind on this game. But with all these people voting e for that one post...I could see scum killing faust to try and frame e.
It's pretty much WIFOM to me.

There's more of a case against e than anyone else. I suppose a case can be built on me here as well, but Faust did target e more than me, so I'm not sure.

So the new case on me: Faust thought I was scum, faust got NKed, I am scum.

But scum would never be that obvious, so clearly I am actually framed town.

But scum knew that town knew that scum would never be that obvious, so clearly I am scum.

I think the better explanation is that faust is consistently a good town player, he was active, useful, giving reads....all the things we want town to do.  So scum killed him.

...Or that Faust was putting pressure on you.
I think the most likely option is that Faust was killed because he was the top town player that didn't put any pressure on any scum. So... Who would be the top townie player? Well, probably no one. Some people even thought Faust was scum. I think this was a perfect moment for scum to NK a threat.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Sorry to bring this up, but it was bugging me all night.

EFHW's absurd overreacting to me, e, and Seprix "suddenly" wanting to vote XP has me wanting to lynch him even more.

You act like you've been watching me, but you clearly haven't, because

A. You ASKED me to lynch XP anyways
B. I've been wanting to lynch XP
C. I only switched from XP to you because you're kind of suspicious to me, but you're not really a D1 target so I admit that vote was spite

Seprix, in the time since this post, have you realized that the "him" in my sentence referred to XP, not to you?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I think killing the guy that started the wagon on you is a little too obvious, especially for e. 

Seprix coming out voting him is super suspicious. Well okay, the framing someone for the above is also a little obvious.  I honestly don't know if Seprix would do it.

Why wouldn't Seprix do it as scum?  Isn't that the reasoning behind his case on e, such as it is?

[Seprix]

Sorry to bring this up, but it was bugging me all night.

EFHW's absurd overreacting to me, e, and Seprix "suddenly" wanting to vote XP has me wanting to lynch him even more.

You act like you've been watching me, but you clearly haven't, because

A. You ASKED me to lynch XP anyways
B. I've been wanting to lynch XP
C. I only switched from XP to you because you're kind of suspicious to me, but you're not really a D1 target so I admit that vote was spite

Seprix, in the time since this post, have you realized that the "him" in my sentence referred to XP, not to you?

No. I haven't.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Sorry to bring this up, but it was bugging me all night.

EFHW's absurd overreacting to me, e, and Seprix "suddenly" wanting to vote XP has me wanting to lynch him even more.

You act like you've been watching me, but you clearly haven't, because

A. You ASKED me to lynch XP anyways
B. I've been wanting to lynch XP
C. I only switched from XP to you because you're kind of suspicious to me, but you're not really a D1 target so I admit that vote was spite

Seprix, in the time since this post, have you realized that the "him" in my sentence referred to XP, not to you?

No. I haven't.

Hopefully we can change that to a hadn't instead of a haven't?

You seem to have some sort of feeling of persecution with regards to me.  I'm obviously reading your posts with a lot more attention than you're reading mine, and that comment in particular got me mad when I read it. 

I don't want us to turn into the next Faust and Ichi.  Yes, I'm a bit aggressive.  It feels like you're taking it personally here though.  That post wasn't even about you, and even if it was, asking you to switch your vote to someone you've been wanting to vote for is how wagon building works, it doesn't mean I have to suddenly be sure you're town.  It just means I'm not sure you're scum.

If you're town, this weird pseudo-fight has me worried it could become a thing, and I want to clear the air about it now.  (I don't really want to post any more about this if this is enough so you see what I'm trying to say, and it'd be better if we don't derail too much, but just feel this needs saying.)

[2.71828.....]

Sorry to bring this up, but it was bugging me all night.

EFHW's absurd overreacting to me, e, and Seprix "suddenly" wanting to vote XP has me wanting to lynch him even more.

You act like you've been watching me, but you clearly haven't, because

A. You ASKED me to lynch XP anyways
B. I've been wanting to lynch XP
C. I only switched from XP to you because you're kind of suspicious to me, but you're not really a D1 target so I admit that vote was spite

Seprix, in the time since this post, have you realized that the "him" in my sentence referred to XP, not to you?

I'm obviously reading your posts with a lot more attention than you're reading mine, and that comment in particular got me mad when I read it. 

I don't think that is very fair.  your post is ambiguous read in a vacuum.

[2.71828.....]

#quotefails

[Witherweaver]

I think killing the guy that started the wagon on you is a little too obvious, especially for e. 

Seprix coming out voting him is super suspicious. Well okay, the framing someone for the above is also a little obvious.  I honestly don't know if Seprix would do it.

Why wouldn't Seprix do it as scum?  Isn't that the reasoning behind his case on e, such as it is?

Because it's too obvious.  Scum would generally want a town player to notice and make the argument and stay under the radar.

[Witherweaver]

UoF's post isn't ambiguous unless you assume it's grammatically incorrect.

[Seprix]

Hopefully we can change that to a hadn't instead of a haven't?

You seem to have some sort of feeling of persecution with regards to me.  I'm obviously reading your posts with a lot more attention than you're reading mine, and that comment in particular got me mad when I read it. 

I don't want us to turn into the next Faust and Ichi.  Yes, I'm a bit aggressive.  It feels like you're taking it personally here though.  That post wasn't even about you, and even if it was, asking you to switch your vote to someone you've been wanting to vote for is how wagon building works, it doesn't mean I have to suddenly be sure you're town.  It just means I'm not sure you're scum.

If you're town, this weird pseudo-fight has me worried it could become a thing, and I want to clear the air about it now.  (I don't really want to post any more about this if this is enough so you see what I'm trying to say, and it'd be better if we don't derail too much, but just feel this needs saying.)

It's a game. I don't take anything personally.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

It's a game. I don't take anything personally.

Okay, good.  Just wanted to head this off if it was going to be a thing.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

This will probably be more helpful when we've seen e's flip, posting it to refer back to later.  If I'm dead at that point, maybe someone else will look instead.

Okay, so after XP had claimed 3rd party  this was the vote count.  At this point it's going to be random between XP and e.

XP (7):  chairs, uos, Seprix, 2.7, WW, IG, Ghacob
hockeysemlan (3):  Hydrad, silverspawn, EgorK
2.7 (7): XP, TA, mail-mi, hockey, faust, efhw, gkrieg13

e: Never going to change to vote himself over the other guy, no information.
UoS: Offline
Probably offline: mail-mi, EgorK, silverspawn, Chairs, hockeysemian

Note: I didn't actually do anything to check the people who were offline or not, just they didn't post anything in this period.  Think Mail-mi was V/LA though?
------------------------------

Ichimaru Gin - Online, or maybe voted XP and then checked out?
Witherweaver - Online, nothing of substance that I noted, was voting XP before and during this whole period though.
Hydrad - Stumbles in at the end, offers to hammer XP as he's at L-1, seems to have forgotten about the plurality lynch

TA - Online
#801 XP is 3rd party, doesn't think his win condition really allies with town.  Wants him vigged.  Keeps vote on e.
#813 Would have hammered too, agrees with EFHW's logic about 3rd parties.

Ghacob - Online
#785 Doesn't like either of the options.  Thinks that can't be XP's full claim, too weak.  Doesn't see what the case on e is.
#799 Claiming non-town would not be a smart thing to do as a town lover.

Seprix - Online
#788 Notes tie.  "Don't think I'll move my vote as I don't think e is scum."  Gives deadline reminder and vague push on XP's wanting a day before claiming thing in next couple posts.
#796 XP is either a lover or not town, if he's a lover might be willing to reconsider my vote.

gkrieg13 - Online
#772 What are all the people on Hockey doing, don't want this to come down to a coin flip.
#783 Agrees with WW that voting someone you think is town doesn't make sense over someone you think is 3rd party, but keeps his vote on e while waiting for XP to come back and answer questions.
#794 Claim fits with rolefishing behavior
#805 Lynching XP doesn't tell us much about other players though, because both scum and town would want to lynch him.

EFHW - Online
#782 Starting to want to flip a coin myself. (Although she means she's starting to have doubts about XP post-claim.
#784 e's posts are scummy as all get out, so will stay there, but won't be too upset if XP lynched.
#798 XP could be a non-town lover.
#800 XP's claimed role isn't a lover, he's not worried about someone dying with him.
#802 Votes XP because 3rd parties are bad for town and we might not have a vig.  Making it a majority on XP

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Gkrieg's behavior is inconsistent, but doesn't fit with a scum motivation at all.  He makes much more sense as town.

EFHW's decision to switch vote to XP at the last minute avoids a random lynch and build up to it looks legitimate.  If EFHW were scum, there'd be no reason to worry much about this, I don't think she'd have wasted time faking the slow, grudging position drift that it looks like she has in the last hour or so of the day.  Unless she and e were scumbuddies, which seems extremely unlikely.

Seprix is weird and hedgy but keeps his vote on XP, as expected.

Don't really get anything from Ghacob, but he was at least addressing things Seprix and people were saying.

But TA is the interesting one for me.

[Seprix]

TA looked really really pro-town with that huge read, and then he said some questionable stuff, is what I got from backreading.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Vote: TwistedArcher

He makes a point to not change his vote, keeping the vote random.  If e and XP are both town, scum!TA doesn't really care which one of them is getting lynched.  He comments that he thinks XP is lying, but he keeps his vote on e.

Even if he's hung up on e, he could have made this non-random and chose not to.  I don't think town!TA would choose to let a role he thinks is lying and really an anti-town 3rd party live with a 50% chance because he's tunnelling.

And he doesn't think so either, because after EFHW hammers, he feels the need to chime in that he would have done so and that she's right.

He seems way too apathetic about letting the lynching of a non-town role come down to chance when he comes in, and then it looks like he doesn't want to be seen as willing to let it come down to chance after the fact.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

XP gambit was okay play I think. I'm not sure if I had pursued the lynch after his claim.

You wouldn't have pursued a lynch on a claimed 3rd party?  Why would that have been enough to sway you to not voting for him?

[Seprix]

Vote: TwistedArcher

He makes a point to not change his vote, keeping the vote random.  If e and XP are both town, scum!TA doesn't really care which one of them is getting lynched.  He comments that he thinks XP is lying, but he keeps his vote on e.

Even if he's hung up on e, he could have made this non-random and chose not to.  I don't think town!TA would choose to let a role he thinks is lying and really an anti-town 3rd party live with a 50% chance because he's tunnelling.

And he doesn't think so either, because after EFHW hammers, he feels the need to chime in that he would have done so and that she's right.

He seems way too apathetic about letting the lynching of a non-town role come down to chance when he comes in, and then it looks like he doesn't want to be seen as willing to let it come down to chance after the fact.

This seems right. I might vote TA with you, but I want to convince myself beforehand. As I've stated before, voting for e was more of a placeholder or place to start.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I think the most likely option is that Faust was killed because he was the top town player that didn't put any pressure on any scum. So... Who would be the top townie player? Well, probably no one. Some people even thought Faust was scum. I think this was a perfect moment for scum to NK a threat.

I'm basically the only one who thought Faust was scum.  He was one of the widest town reads.  Most other players had more suspicion than Faust, or were lurking.

Scum don't need to kill lurkers, and the rest of town probably had more mislynch potential.  Probably no one was going to join me on Faust.

Using Faust's NK as a case on e is extremely thin.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

It didn't even show me a PPE.  That's annoying.

So I guess the only point of that last post is that I'm still townreading e from yesterday, and all these votes on him because of the NK seem silly.

Why is this town so sheepy?

[2.71828.....]

I don't know, but will sheep you

vote: TA

I like the analysis, and I thought he was scummy yesterday.  His voting history just doesn't add up as town in my opinion.

[Seprix]

I think the most likely option is that Faust was killed because he was the top town player that didn't put any pressure on any scum. So... Who would be the top townie player? Well, probably no one. Some people even thought Faust was scum. I think this was a perfect moment for scum to NK a threat.

I'm basically the only one who thought Faust was scum.  He was one of the widest town reads.  Most other players had more suspicion than Faust, or were lurking.

Scum don't need to kill lurkers, and the rest of town probably had more mislynch potential.  Probably no one was going to join me on Faust.

Using Faust's NK as a case on e is extremely thin.

You've convinced me.

vote: TA

[Ichimaru Gin]

faust NK isn't strange... and you don't need WIFOM to explain it.

Who said it was strange?
I don't think WIFOM (almost by definition) explains anything. I just meant that I don't find faust's death leading me to a conclusion about e's alignment.

[gkrieg13]

ok so that's just a mafia kill then? 
I was just glancing over the first day and I'm pretty sure faust started the train on e.
vote: e

What do you mean, just a Mafia kill?

I just wanted to know if that was just a standard kill, or if it meant something else, like a vigilante kill etc.  Like if one of the good guys in the books always kills with coins or something.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'd actually tend to think that killing someone with a coin is less related to any characters that would be considered scum.
There's only like one I can think of.