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[EFHW]

Eh. I'll vote: WW. This is a semi-lazy vote btw. I don't even know if there's much of a point in me rereading, since it's like 99% theory talk.

I'd better slow down - if I had seen this, I would have reread before jumping to WW.  What kind of vote is this?  It has nothing behind it.  At least I had something to be wrong about!

Well, scum likes to at least put up a front of a reason usually (modulo WIFOM), so I found yours a little worse than his.

I'm me, so I know my wasn't "worse" b/c I know I was being earnest if misguided.  Throwing out empty votes has no pro-town function I can think of.  Being hasty isn't very pro-town either, but there the anti-town factor is inadvertent.  This is just blatant.

ppe: IG  -- I think it does have nothing there.  Lynching players because they play scum well is not a very productive strategy, since they also tend to play town well.

[EFHW]

Eh. I'll vote: WW. This is a semi-lazy vote btw. I don't even know if there's much of a point in me rereading, since it's like 99% theory talk.

I'd better slow down - if I had seen this, I would have reread before jumping to WW.  What kind of vote is this?  It has nothing behind it.  At least I had something to be wrong about!

Well, scum likes to at least put up a front of a reason usually (modulo WIFOM), so I found yours a little worse than his.

damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Is that what modulo WIFOM refers to?

[Witherweaver]

Eh. I'll vote: WW. This is a semi-lazy vote btw. I don't even know if there's much of a point in me rereading, since it's like 99% theory talk.

I'd better slow down - if I had seen this, I would have reread before jumping to WW.  What kind of vote is this?  It has nothing behind it.  At least I had something to be wrong about!

Well, scum likes to at least put up a front of a reason usually (modulo WIFOM), so I found yours a little worse than his.

I'm me, so I know my wasn't "worse" b/c I know I was being earnest if misguided.  Throwing out empty votes has no pro-town function I can think of.  Being hasty isn't very pro-town either, but there the anti-town factor is inadvertent.  This is just blatant.

ppe: IG  -- I think it does have nothing there.  Lynching players because they play scum well is not a very productive strategy, since they also tend to play town well.

I mean you're not wrong there.  Being hasty is not pro-town, but on the other hand, town is more likely to be hasty.  Scum worries about slipping up, looking good under scrutiny, etc.  Town can follow instincts.

I agree with your PPE statement.  Even if I was a super-awesome scum player, that doesn't make me any more likely to be scum in any given game.

[Witherweaver]

Eh. I'll vote: WW. This is a semi-lazy vote btw. I don't even know if there's much of a point in me rereading, since it's like 99% theory talk.

I'd better slow down - if I had seen this, I would have reread before jumping to WW.  What kind of vote is this?  It has nothing behind it.  At least I had something to be wrong about!

Well, scum likes to at least put up a front of a reason usually (modulo WIFOM), so I found yours a little worse than his.

damned if you do, damned if you don't.  Is that what modulo WIFOM refers to?

I meant WIFOM like, scum wants to put up a reason because they're afraid people will dissect their thinking.  Therefore scum is more likely to have detailed explanations. But then town is less likely.  Then scum wants to appear that way, so they'll play a little "looser" and use a defense like "well I wouldn't just vote with no explanation as scum!". 

I mean, just the latent WIFOM in any argument of "scum/town acts (or wants to act) this way".

[EFHW]

vote: dice

Right then, let's start actually playing the game.

I reread your posts, and you supported your color plan right up until you voted for dice.  What changed?

[Awaclus]

pacovf, could you give yourself a goko username in your profile?  That makes it easier to do postcounts.

You can use his personal text or post count.

since you are here, did you ever tell us the plan?  Do you still think it is good, or have you changed your mind?

Yeah, I told you in reply #477. Basically,

I reread your posts, and you supported your color plan right up until you voted for dice.  What changed?

We weren't going to go for the color plan, that changed. In fact, I was going to be opposed to the color plan originally for the reason that we have to organize the plan in this thread where scum can also see it and then they can counter it perfectly, but then I realized that I can at least attempt to fix that problem. So, as long as it was a possibility that we might end up going for the color plan, I wanted scum to not know for sure that it's going to get carried out the way it was explicitly planned. Now that we're not going to go for the color plan, it doesn't matter.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Eh. I'll vote: WW. This is a semi-lazy vote btw. I don't even know if there's much of a point in me rereading, since it's like 99% theory talk.

I'd better slow down - if I had seen this, I would have reread before jumping to WW.  What kind of vote is this?  It has nothing behind it.  At least I had something to be wrong about!

Well, scum likes to at least put up a front of a reason usually (modulo WIFOM), so I found yours a little worse than his.

I'm me, so I know my wasn't "worse" b/c I know I was being earnest if misguided.  Throwing out empty votes has no pro-town function I can think of.  Being hasty isn't very pro-town either, but there the anti-town factor is inadvertent.  This is just blatant.

ppe: IG  -- I think it does have nothing there.  Lynching players because they play scum well is not a very productive strategy, since they also tend to play town well.

I wouldn't say that holds true across the board. This isn't a statement about WW's town ability--just that I don't think skill as scum or town  is by any means equivalent. In fact, the opposite is often true in the sense that good scum players get more scrutiny like WW is here. That's somewhat out of the player's control yes, but for example, Teproc used it to help get me mislynched in Musical Mafia.

Even if I was a super-awesome scum player, that doesn't make me any more likely to be scum in any given game.

Obvious fact is obvious. Coming from the perspective of not knowing your alignment though, it makes you more dangerous than say, someone who doesn't have a history of playing very well as scum. This is not exactly why I am voting for you though. It's more of a intuitive vote for now, not based on some flawed argument that I wasn't even trying to make.

PPE: like 3

[pacovf]

EFHW doing stuff!

pacovf, could you give yourself a goko username in your profile?  That makes it easier to do postcounts.

I'm not on Goko, so that would be misleading. You can search my personal text, though: "Multiediting poster".

I have 73 posts counting pre-start posts, despite being V/LA for two full days. Not that it matters much, but eh.

[Witherweaver]

I concur with the town read on Awaclus.

[Witherweaver]

EFHW doing stuff!

pacovf, could you give yourself a goko username in your profile?  That makes it easier to do postcounts.

I'm not on Goko, so that would be misleading. You can search my personal text, though: "Multiediting poster".

I have 73 posts counting pre-start posts, despite being V/LA for two full days. Not that it matters much, but eh.

You just bumped your post count up by 1, obvscum move.

Just make your Goko username something like, "I'm not on Goko you sucka!"

[pacovf]

You just bumped your post count up by 1, obvscum move.

Just make your Goko username something like, "I'm not on Goko you sucka!"

And so did you, but you were the one that had the post count that was deemed inadequate!

I don't think putting anything else than "pacovf" as my Goko username would make post counts any easier than just searching for "multiediting", since it requires remembering data from my account that is distinct from my username.

Now stop deflecting from your wagon, obvscum!

[Witherweaver]

Another subtle inflation of post count.

[EFHW]

I do that sort of thing a lot (I think I figured out his plan, which I don't think would work) and have definitely thought about it as scum. Maybe I'm unique that way though.

Yes, I think you figured out the first layer of the plan. The second layer was making scum figure it out as well and then not do anything special. I mean, I didn't really have too high expectations myself, but there was no risk, and the reward could have potentially been game-deciding, so it didn't hurt to try.

Anyway, I don't remember if I'm voting for someone already. Might as well vote: Witherweaver.

I guess I am being obtuse, but I don't see where you say it was an act.  But now you have.   I disagree with pacovf and others who see towniness here.

[Witherweaver]

I do that sort of thing a lot (I think I figured out his plan, which I don't think would work) and have definitely thought about it as scum. Maybe I'm unique that way though.

Yes, I think you figured out the first layer of the plan. The second layer was making scum figure it out as well and then not do anything special. I mean, I didn't really have too high expectations myself, but there was no risk, and the reward could have potentially been game-deciding, so it didn't hurt to try.

Anyway, I don't remember if I'm voting for someone already. Might as well vote: Witherweaver.

I guess I am being obtuse, but I don't see where you say it was an act.  But now you have.   I disagree with pacovf and others who see towniness here.

My read was based on his last post.

[pacovf]

My read was based on everything he's done since the beginning of the game.

Are you voting, EFHW?

[XerxesPraelor]

Another subtle inflation of post count.

An ironic, self-referential one too.

[pacovf]

If being ironic and/or self-referential is an alignment tell, you are in for a treat with me.

...wait, am I doing it again? Sorry.

[Witherweaver]

If being ironic and/or self-referential is an alignment tell, you are in for a treat with me.

...wait, am I doing it again? Sorry.

Is it a scum-flavored treat?

[sudgy]

The only read I have at the moment is ash is town.  I see lots of people talking about Awaclus and Witherweaver, can anybody explain that?  All I see from Awaclus is that he switched his plans.

[Witherweaver]

I also found Awaclus switching to the Dice plan at "L-1" to be somewhat townie, as it accelerated the finalization of a plan (even though I supported the Color one) and therefore accelerated the continuation of the game past theory talk.

I guess it would be something easy to do as scum for town points, but us talking about theory and arguing while not doing any scum hunting is probably more beneficial for scum.

[ashersky]

The absolute easiest way to do post counts is:

1. Clink the print view
2. Ctrl-f
3. Type "post by: username"

[ashersky]

Dice plan clarification from math heads, please.

If we can collectively figure the odds the IC is protected each night, can scum also do the same to learn the odds the IC won't be protected?

If yes, can't they just wait for the best odds and shoot that night, not wasting there time any other night?

[pacovf]

We will decide how well protected we want the IC to be, and the respective protection chance per 1-shot doctor, day by day.

Scum can calculate how well protected XP is, but they don't know how well protected he will be in the future, because we haven't taken that decision yet.

[EFHW]

My read was based on everything he's done since the beginning of the game.

Are you voting, EFHW?

No.  I have my usual Day 1 indecisiveness.  I don't feel great about the Awaclus thing - his making it up and people saying he must be town because of it.  I guess because I've played a bunch of games with Robz.  I've been waiting for his answer to my last question, but I can look over his supporters in the meantime.

[ashersky]

We will decide how well protected we want the IC to be, and the respective protection chance per 1-shot doctor, day by day.

Scum can calculate how well protected XP is, but they don't know how well protected he will be in the future, because we haven't taken that decision yet.

You gave the percentages for every day.  Or were those made up?

As 1-shot doctors die, how will we know if they protected or not?  Same for living docs?  How will that lack of public info affect how you determine the percentage threshold?