Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ashersky]

How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?

Think this through.

I don't know.  And that's a point in your favor.

But there are just many more points against you.

[Witherweaver]

Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well). 

Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything.  You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town.  You can miss things. 

My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK.  I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK.  I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.

Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?

[Witherweaver]

How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?

Think this through.

I don't know.  And that's a point in your favor.

But there are just many more points against you.

It should be a big one.  My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions.  Why make this claim as scum?  My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny.   I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim.    Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened).  In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch.  And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game.  I have other things and other games. 

And, why even make this claim at all?  Why not just go VT?  I'm already on BOTH scum wagons. 

[Hydrad]

unvote actually. I'm going to think about it a bit more if I like sudgy or ww more.

[ashersky]

Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well). 

Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything.  You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town.  You can miss things. 

My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK.  I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK.  I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.

Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?

You'd be better off making a case on someone else, I think.

I mean, yeah, bad night choices can be a town defense.  Before my re-read, I was basically believing your claim and suspecting sudgy (mostly for his reaction to the Awaclus wagon).  But after re-read, a lot of stuff is against you, man.

I could still see sudgy or hydrad just being a lying scum.  The EgorK kill is odd, for example.  But I don't know, I need to see more, something I missed on re-read, to be convinced.

[ashersky]

How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?

Think this through.

I don't know.  And that's a point in your favor.

But there are just many more points against you.

It should be a big one.  My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions.  Why make this claim as scum?  My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny.   I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim.    Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened).  In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch.  And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game.  I have other things and other games. 

And, why even make this claim at all?  Why not just go VT?  I'm already on BOTH scum wagons.

Your own legitimate reads were that scum was town.  You never professed ADK's towniness.  And he quickhammered town on D2.  How did that not change your thought process at all?

Why not go VT?  We'd be lynching from the VT only pool if you did, and that's not any better for you.  Not being in mylo means we have more arguments for keeping a doctor alive.  You can confirm your own claim by not killing one night.

There's a lot of reasons to claim doctor.

[Witherweaver]

Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well). 

Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything.  You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town.  You can miss things. 

My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK.  I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK.  I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.

Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?

You'd be better off making a case on someone else, I think.

I mean, yeah, bad night choices can be a town defense.  Before my re-read, I was basically believing your claim and suspecting sudgy (mostly for his reaction to the Awaclus wagon).  But after re-read, a lot of stuff is against you, man.

I could still see sudgy or hydrad just being a lying scum.  The EgorK kill is odd, for example.  But I don't know, I need to see more, something I missed on re-read, to be convinced.

I haven't done my full reread yet.

[Witherweaver]

How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?

Think this through.

I don't know.  And that's a point in your favor.

But there are just many more points against you.

It should be a big one.  My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions.  Why make this claim as scum?  My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny.   I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim.    Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened).  In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch.  And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game.  I have other things and other games. 

And, why even make this claim at all?  Why not just go VT?  I'm already on BOTH scum wagons.

Your own legitimate reads were that scum was town.  You never professed ADK's towniness.  And he quickhammered town on D2.  How did that not change your thought process at all?

Why not go VT?  We'd be lynching from the VT only pool if you did, and that's not any better for you.  Not being in mylo means we have more arguments for keeping a doctor alive.  You can confirm your own claim by not killing one night.

There's a lot of reasons to claim doctor.

How would I be able to argue past scum simply killing me instead of my target?

[ashersky]

How does scum!WW choosing the non-sensible fake claim choice make any more sense?

Think this through.

I don't know.  And that's a point in your favor.

But there are just many more points against you.

It should be a big one.  My own legitimate reads are going to be the primary thing directing my night actions.  Why make this claim as scum?  My "read" on ADK would be fabricated, and I know the decision would come under scrutiny.   I would absolutely think out all the contingencies of a fake claim.    Plus, I would have much more time (all game to consider my claim, last night to foresee the claim coming, and the day time before it actually happened).  In reality I had to make the decision within 24 hours of the lynch.  And I don't spend all my time thinking about this game.  I have other things and other games. 

And, why even make this claim at all?  Why not just go VT?  I'm already on BOTH scum wagons.

Your own legitimate reads were that scum was town.  You never professed ADK's towniness.  And he quickhammered town on D2.  How did that not change your thought process at all?

Why not go VT?  We'd be lynching from the VT only pool if you did, and that's not any better for you.  Not being in mylo means we have more arguments for keeping a doctor alive.  You can confirm your own claim by not killing one night.

There's a lot of reasons to claim doctor.

How would I be able to argue past scum simply killing me instead of my target?

I'm saying that as scum you have plenty of reasons to claim doctor instead of VT.  In your own quote up there, you ask me "why even make this claim at all? why not go VT?"

So you asked me why scum!ww fakeclaims doctor instead of VT.  I told you.  Then you respond to my reasons with what would happen if you were telling the truth?  That, my friend, is scummy.

[Witherweaver]

Huh?  You sound like you're getting caught up in rhetoric.

You said that scum!me could no-kill to verify my Doctor claim, showing that I protected someone.  But anyone observing that scenario would wonder why scum didn't decide to just kill the claimed Doctor. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well). 

Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything.  You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town.  You can miss things. 

My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK.  I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK.  I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.

Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?

That chairs was an IC? Yes. And it's hard for to claim to have protected chairs when he was killed.

I'm buying the WW case more and more but I do have to do a reread to convince myself it isn't ash being crazy scum.

[sudgy]

I think ash is town.

[Witherweaver]

Well anyway, let's not get caught up in this.  I'm making a point that it wouldn't make all that much sense to fakeclaim Doctor here.  People can either believe that or not believe that.

Someone here is actually scum, and we need to find him.  Voting history still has me preferring Sudgy or Silverspawn, and possibly Ash as well.  I haven't gotten a scum impression from Hydrad.  Reread of the first half or two thirds of day one had me leaning away from Silverspawn, and therefore towards Sudgy.  My thoughts on Silverspawn looked pretty similar to what Ash said in his reread, that his interactions with Joseph/Awaclus did not look like town.

Will try to read through the rest in the next couple days.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think ash is town.

His activity here, and the fact that he's pursuing the WW lynch over the probably easier silver or you lynch, makes me think so. But I'm paranoid enough to do a reread of him.

[Witherweaver]

Think back to the game (I think it was even this setup) where town!XP got all sorts of gripe for making bad night choices. (I think he was even a Doctor.) Scum!Volt fake claimed a perfectly neat and explainable role (could have been doctor as well). 

Scum thinks through all the possibilities when deciding what to fake claim.. town doesn't always think through everything.  You don't have anyone to talk things over with as town.  You can miss things. 

My thought was simply ADK is definitely town => Protect ADK.  I spent some time thinking about Ash, but decided for ADK.  I didn't even think about Chairs becoming an IC.

Question: Did everyone else (other than Ash) realize this last night?

That chairs was an IC? Yes. And it's hard for to claim to have protected chairs when he was killed.

I'm buying the WW case more and more but I do have to do a reread to convince myself it isn't ash being crazy scum.

It's not hard to make that claim, since if I were scum, I'd know Ash is telling the truth and I'd know I was taking a PR with doctor, so I could argue scum has a full Strongman.

[Witherweaver]

I think ash is town.

His activity here, and the fact that he's pursuing the WW lynch over the probably easier silver or you lynch, makes me think so. But I'm paranoid enough to do a reread of him.

I still think Silver and Sudgy are more likely than Ash.

[Witherweaver]

Oh here's a thought.

Ash was the one that counterclaimed Joseph's flavor info.  Do you talk about your flavor in scum QT?  Usually it comes up, especially if you're a newer player (Joseph and Awaclus), because you don't know if it matters so you're probably going to ask/bring up lots of things.  At this point the mistake would likely be found.. well, unless clever Ash decides to keep quiet to make it look legit in the forum.  But decent chance not.

Another point towards Sudgy/Silver.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, I have Yule Ham and a Macintosh Laptop.

On top of scummy voting, and the crap vote for ADK on food, I will counter claim you right now.

I have the Yule Ham in my PM.

Unless two players submitted Yule ham (which seems improbable, given I don't think it's even a thing), we now have 100% caught scum.

Just choose, vote: Joseph2302 or me.

Even aside from that argument, this is not how Ash treats his partners.  The interactions look genuine.  He's likely town.

[Witherweaver]

want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky

Point against Silverspawn: Awaclus is in no danger of being lynched here, EgorK is a rising wagon.  It's pretty common to keep one of your partners in the "want to lynch" category when they're in no danger of being lynched.  Other partner and leading lynch candidate, Joseph, comfortably in the "Don't Care" category.

After this, though, I'm not sure the narrative holds up.  Silver goes towards EgorK for lurking, a wagon builds on him, and then  Silver decides not to do that and makes a huge case against Seprix.  I can't figure out if this is trying to deflect the lynch away from Joseph or Silver genuinely scum hunting.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 4.3

sudgy (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (2): sudgy, Ashersky

Not Voting (3): A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, Hydrad

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 will last 10 days. The deadline for Day 4 will be Sunday, January 18 at 6:30 pm forum time.

[silverspawn]

want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky

Point against Silverspawn: Awaclus is in no danger of being lynched here, EgorK is a rising wagon.  It's pretty common to keep one of your partners in the "want to lynch" category when they're in no danger of being lynched.  Other partner and leading lynch candidate, Joseph, comfortably in the "Don't Care" category.

After this, though, I'm not sure the narrative holds up.  Silver goes towards EgorK for lurking, a wagon builds on him, and then  Silver decides not to do that and makes a huge case against Seprix.  I can't figure out if this is trying to deflect the lynch away from Joseph or Silver genuinely scum hunting.

well I was wrong about seprix, but you have to admit that he was being crazy inconsistent. and I did say that joseph was scum at the end of the same post, which turned out to be true, and that awaclus might be scum, which also turned out to be true.

The narrative for you to make a bad claim is simple. Bad claims look better than perfect claims. I could see scum!you choosing questionable targets for your claim in order to fabricate sloppy!town!targets

I'm also not about town!you choosing these targets. Aren't you usually pretty good with your PR's?

I think scum is probably either you or Hydrad at this point, so unvote. sudgy not really, he reminds me a lot of his play in deathnote mafia

[silverspawn]

short PoE
ash gets a pass for today. Pulling me out of the lynch pool is super dangerous for scum!ash, because that would leave just 3 players as misylnch targets, and I don't think sudgy is happening. Also the reread is just good.
sudgy - pass actually, I reread him. He found me towny, and he was pushing both scum players pretty heavily. plus a little bit of townread based on intuition
ADK, me - town

so yeah, it is WW or Hydrad.

[Witherweaver]

short PoE
ash gets a pass for today. Pulling me out of the lynch pool is super dangerous for scum!ash, because that would leave just 3 players as misylnch targets, and I don't think sudgy is happening. Also the reread is just good.
sudgy - pass actually, I reread him. He found me towny, and he was pushing both scum players pretty heavily. plus a little bit of townread based on intuition
ADK, me - town

so yeah, it is WW or Hydrad.

It's not me, and I really don't see Hydrad.

[Witherweaver]

want to lynch: Awaclus, EgorK
don't care: WW, Seprix, chairs, Joseph
don't want to lynch: faust, sudgy, ashersky

Point against Silverspawn: Awaclus is in no danger of being lynched here, EgorK is a rising wagon.  It's pretty common to keep one of your partners in the "want to lynch" category when they're in no danger of being lynched.  Other partner and leading lynch candidate, Joseph, comfortably in the "Don't Care" category.

After this, though, I'm not sure the narrative holds up.  Silver goes towards EgorK for lurking, a wagon builds on him, and then  Silver decides not to do that and makes a huge case against Seprix.  I can't figure out if this is trying to deflect the lynch away from Joseph or Silver genuinely scum hunting.

well I was wrong about seprix, but you have to admit that he was being crazy inconsistent. and I did say that joseph was scum at the end of the same post, which turned out to be true, and that awaclus might be scum, which also turned out to be true.

The narrative for you to make a bad claim is simple. Bad claims look better than perfect claims. I could see scum!you choosing questionable targets for your claim in order to fabricate sloppy!town!targets

I'm also not about town!you choosing these targets. Aren't you usually pretty good with your PR's?

I think scum is probably either you or Hydrad at this point, so unvote. sudgy not really, he reminds me a lot of his play in deathnote mafia

I've very rarely played (town) PRs.

I was a 3-shot Cop in Zelda Mafia.  I had a PR (x-shot doctor maybe) in some RMM game.. Pokeman I think, where I died by hammering Andrew.    I had a role in Guilds Mafia, too, and I got pretty heavily criticized for using that.  And Dice Mafia I had a Saboteur ability (basically anti-town).  I'm not sure I've had any other roles.. I was scum for quite a while and then most of my town games have been VT. So I wouldn't really say I've been good with PRs. 

[Witherweaver]

As for claiming to be bad town as scum, that's just a defacto WIFOM argument that anything I'd want to avoid as scum, I'd also want to do as scum, so that it could be argued that hypothetical scum me would avoid it.  But as we've addressed in other places (originally brought up by Axxle), scum doesn't do this nearly as much as we like to think they do, because they have to rely on town interpreting things the way they want them to, and that's really unreliable.

We shouldn't be lynching someone that was on both Joseph and Awaclus' wagon today, unless there is a really, really good reason.  I think town!Silverspawn has to be pretty confident that Sudgy is scum.