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[XerxesPraelor]

I'd be willing to vote reinoe, but I'm leaning toward a gut vote: ADK All he's done this game is try to lynch me without really any basis.

[xxpittip]

Plan update:

All that really matters is tomorrow, I guess.  I suspect I'll be slammed by a few of you for the idea, but it's worth discussing (and doing, in the end), regardless of the risk.

For today, lynch, no-lynch, whatever.  I think it's been a pretty good day 1 so far, and not so crazy long yet.

We should try to do some lynch POE...

1. Teproc
2. Hydrad
3. XerxesPraelor
4. Witherweaver
5. silverspawn
6. Beyond Awesome
7. ashersky
8. Ichimaru Gin
9. xeiron
10. chairs
11. Awaclus
12. 2.71828...
13. xxpittip
14. Twistedarcher
15. A Drowned Kernel
16. reinoe

Strikethroughs are not options for today, bolds are preferred, regular are meh.

XP and xeiron are a pair -- I'd lynch one just so we only have one x-name in the game since I confuse them with each other all the time.
TA and reinoe are a pair -- as you know.
xxpittip is the only player that sticks out as both active and lynchworthy.

Why do you think i'm lynchworthy? I disagreed with your plans, but i told you the reasons and nobody seemed to know how the plan benefits us. The only benefit i can image is if you have a PR that activates when someone is at L-1 (you could be told what their powers are or something like that). But a role like that could also be scum (not as likely, but still possible), which would be a huge disaster for us if we follow the plan.

"XP and xeiron are a pair -- I'd lynch one just so we only have one x-name in the game since I confuse them with each other all the time."
Is this the only reason why their names are bold or is there more behind it?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I might be ok with lynching XP today. I can see scum volunteering to be put to L-1 because I guess it looks kind of townie. That seems a little cheap though given his wagon was like 100% artificial.

We still have what, like 4 days? This day has actually been pretty small considering how many players we have.

I'm gonna unvote for now. Also, xxpittip gets mislynched like a lot. And I trust Hydrad much less after MM. To me, his town and scum play are very similar--and I normally can't tell the difference.

[Witherweaver]

I might be ok with lynching XP today. I can see scum volunteering to be put to L-1 because I guess it looks kind of townie. That seems a little cheap though given his wagon was like 100% artificial.

We still have what, like 4 days? This day has actually been pretty small considering how many players we have.

I'm gonna unvote for now. Also, xxpittip gets mislynched like a lot. And I trust Hydrad much less after MM. To me, his town and scum play are very similar--and I normally can't tell the difference.

I don't understand what you mean about "that seems a little cheap".  What seems cheap?  What position are you taking on XP exactly?

I'm feeling XP myself.

Vote: XP

[Ichimaru Gin]

It seems a little cheap to lynch him after everyone voted him as part of the "put everyone to L-1 plan". I don't know. Maybe scum thought that sort of thought process would help them not get lynched if they volunteered like XP did today.

I'd be ok with lynching him today, but I might prefer a no-lynch.

[reinoe]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

In fact here's the discussion in the neighborhood (paraphrased)
TwistedArcher:who you? (this original post is four words)
me: my name's reinoe. here's a paragraph about me and I miss isotropic.
Twisted archer: I'm twistedarcher. enjoy your first game here
me:here's a paragraph about my unfamiliarity with the theme and i'm diving into the lostwikipedia now
Twisted:yup (his original response was two words)
me: here's a small paragraph on my thoughts about asherkey's plan.
twisted:here's a one sentence response.

Cool.  TA pisses and moans about how I outed the neighborhood, but he never brought up whether the neighborhood should be outed at all.  Ever.  Even though he posted first. 

2) TwistedArcher was deliberately not providing content in the neighborhood.  That's scummy.

3) Why is he pissing and moaning about outing the neiborhood?  He clearly had no intention of using it for anything productive.  He wasn't interrogating me and he wasn't giving content.  Why is he complaining? 

4) TA is being coy about there being no benefit to outing the neighborhood.  We know each other so if the neighborhood never gets outed he can kill me and fake-claim a name that's not in the game.  Now that it's outed he can't fake-claim a name neither can I.  Of course since I'm town I had nothing to hide anyway.

5) TwistedArcher is saying he is suspicious of me based on the role PM.  That makes no sense.  His role PM had us both as husband and wife.  That's not suspicious.  His role PM had us being neighbors in a two person neighborhood.  That's not suspicious.  Him claiming that his role makes him suspicious is absolute garbage.

You are really exaggerating TA's reaction to you claiming the neighborhood.

Did you actually claim to just get reactions?

In what way?  TA had a temper tantrum that the neighborhood got revealed.  Tell me what scumhunting has TA performed this game?  Any at all?  Have you seen any indication he is trying to solve this game?

There sure are a lot of unjustified townreads casually tossed about for TA.  You don't think that's at all bizarre for someone who's done 0 scumhunting? His only contribution this game is running up the XP wagon.

[faust]

Robz888 has replaced Twistedarcher.

[Witherweaver]

In what way?  TA had a temper tantrum that the neighborhood got revealed.  Tell me what scumhunting has TA performed this game?  Any at all?  Have you seen any indication he is trying to solve this game?

There sure are a lot of unjustified townreads casually tossed about for TA.  You don't think that's at all bizarre for someone who's done 0 scumhunting? His only contribution this game is running up the XP wagon.

Temper tantrum... you keep using that word.  I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Ichimaru Gin]

yay. Robz is here! 

Wow, it's been a while since I played a game with him.

[reinoe]

reinoe : please calm down. Hystrionics like "he claimed scum" don't do well here, this isn't mafiascum, we don't enjoy shouting at each other.

Here's what I think of the TA/reinoe situation :

TA didn't speak a lot in the neighborhood because he thinks neighborhoords are of dubious utility to town, I'm pretty sure he's said this in previous games, and there is a very specific precedent on f.ds of scum using a neighborhood to successfully manipulate town (Robz in M31).

Do you think I'm trying to manipulate TA in the neighborhood?  Did you see TA's content that he's not even contesting?  If anyone is trying to manipulate it was him trying to manipulate me.

I don't think TA put a lot of weight in the whole husband/wife thing because he doesn't know the flavor and kinda ignored it, which is a mistake in RMM but whatever.

So you admit he made a mistake?

When TA said "as soon as I got my role PM", he obviously wasn't referencing the flavor, he was referencing the neighborhood and the fact that he's suspicious of them because you don't know the other guys alignment which means you should be careful. You might disagree with his decision to basically not engage, that's fine, but it's not"claiming scum" and I'm pretty sure you understand that and are just being super-hyperbolic because that's fun for you.

And as scum he could just as easily not be engaging as an excuse to prevent me from getting a read on him.  It has nothing to do with being fun for me: it has everything to do with TwistedArcher claiming scum.  Get into his head: not contributing, not interrogating me in the neighborhood, not scumhunting, complaining about the neighborhood getting outed even though he never brought it up in the neighborhood and pretending he can't see any reason for claiming the neighborhood all speak to a dishonest mindset.
What kind of people claim "I can't see anything good that's ever come from poor people/Russia/Mexicans".  TwistedArcher is lazy when it comes to this game at best and speaking from a dishonest perspective at worst. 

It's dumb though. Because this case is obviously extremely weak, yet you present it as if we're all idiots for not lynching TA, so where's your credibility now ? When you later make a better case, there's nowhere left for you to go, and no one will listne to you, so great job there.

You're pre-emptively trying to justify excusing TA's obvious scum behavior.  And I see a lot of sheeping/borderline RVS voting still taking place.  Maybe I should propose a plan that I don't explain that involves lynching TA to see what happens people will hop onboard.

[Witherweaver]

If it wasn't clear what I meant about announcing the neighborhood to get reactions, it is thus:

You announced it out of nowhere, TA displayed some mild disapproval, and you immediately jumped on him for throwing a (completely fictitious) hissy fit.  Since then you've just been more and more belligerent.  There was not, evidently, more heated disapproval from TA in the neighborhood, because you've stated he hasn't posted there.  This makes me think that you were ready to jump on TA for how he would react to the neighborhood announcement, which makes me think that was your original intention. 

[Witherweaver]

tl;dr: TA has a different playstyle from me and therefore he is a bad player and scum.

I strongly advise you attempt a different avenue here.

[Witherweaver]

And, by the way, the part about TA being scum based on his play so far is, I would argue, incorrect.  (Sure, he may be scum, but I hardly think the points you raise are much evidence).  However, things like calling him lazy is not appropriate, and, like stop. 

[reinoe]

If it wasn't clear what I meant about announcing the neighborhood to get reactions, it is thus:

You announced it out of nowhere, TA displayed some mild disapproval, and you immediately jumped on him for throwing a (completely fictitious) hissy fit.  Since then you've just been more and more belligerent.  There was not, evidently, more heated disapproval from TA in the neighborhood, because you've stated he hasn't posted there.  This makes me think that you were ready to jump on TA for how he would react to the neighborhood announcement, which makes me think that was your original intention.

I have a huge problem with someone complaining about outing a neighborhood when they never brought it up and also weren't using the neighborhood for anything worthwhile.  I also take umbrage with "I can't think of any reason to out the neighborhood" which is hard to see as an honest statement. 

Furthermore there was no justification for him stating "if scum didn't know about the neighborhood now they have a benefit".  Do we ever find out what that mysterious benefit is?  Or was it just another unexplained thing that goes rampant in this game?  Oh wait maybe everyone is roleplaying the show?  Things happen without explanation and then we find out two seasons later in a flashback?  (still reading the wiki).

[Robz888]

Hey guys! Sorry I'm late, I was hanging out in the tail section or something. (That's a joke, not a flavor hint.) I had decided to retire from mafia, but couldn't really pass up an opportunity to get in to this game.

I haven't even read the thread yet, so bear with me.

[Robz888]

For anyone who doesn't know me, I am Robz888. I played every regular game of mafia on this forum, games 1 through 50. I am also one of the world's foremost scholars of "Lost," having blogged for a fan site during the show's run.

Be afraid, scum.

[Teproc]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

[Witherweaver]

By benefit he's just saying they now have knowledge they didn't before.  The only point he was trying to make was that, if scum was in the neighborhood, then they have no new information from the claim.  If they weren't, now they know.  There wasn't anything too substantial said here.  The entire issue is very minor.

Well, unless I don't know Mafia theory about neighborhoods/claiming.  Maybe there are strategic questions, I don't know.

[Teproc]

Hey guys! Sorry I'm late, I was hanging out in the tail section or something. (That's a joke, not a flavor hint.) I had decided to retire from mafia, but couldn't really pass up an opportunity to get in to this game.

{Ana Lucia, Mr. Eko, Libby, Bernard... Goodwin ?}...

Wait, you already claimed Sun (or was it Jin ?), crap.

PPE : 1

[Ichimaru Gin]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

Yep I'm cool with it. I'm only saying it's a possibility though. I only said it since scum might have tried to WIFOM the joke I made earlier. So I thought it might be worth it for that.

[Teproc]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

Yep I'm cool with it. I'm only saying it's a possibility though. I only said it since scum might have tried to WIFOM the joke I made earlier. So I thought it might be worth it for that.

I don't follow, what was the joke and what does it have do with proposing yourself for the L-1 plan ?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

Yep I'm cool with it. I'm only saying it's a possibility though. I only said it since scum might have tried to WIFOM the joke I made earlier. So I thought it might be worth it for that.

I don't follow, what was the joke and what does it have do with proposing yourself for the L-1 plan ?

I joked that I was hated scum and afterwards thought it might be used against me (you know, cause some people think jokes are scummy and all). It's not like I put a ton of thought into it. At that point, it seemed like we were actually gonna try and put as many people to L-1 as possible, so I figured I might as well volunteer.

[Teproc]

Right, and your reasoning is that because XP didn't have a specific reason to put himself forward, that makes it scummy ?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Right, and your reasoning is that because XP didn't have a specific reason to put himself forward, that makes it scummy ?

That is one component. I'd rather not into the rest right now, because reasons (there are other reasons).

Note that I'm not voting for him though. I think his behavior can be interpreted in multiple perhaps equally valid ways.

[ashersky]

As far as flavor and "villains" go, I think we aren't going to be able to guess.  I mean, you can make Sawyer a villain if you want.  Plus, I'd guess scum have safe claims.