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[xeiron]

So...we should vote: no lynch today.

I have reasons, some of which I will share tomorrow.

But, well, I want to neutralize the twilight powers, or at least test the waters for them with no one on the chopping block.  We have RMM, which means the focus is on night, generally.  We have the button mechanic (btw, redirects are almost always bad for town as it negates investigative and protective powers).

I also think we should no lynch as soon as possible, as Day 1 is wasted anyway, and Day 2 will basically be Day 1 again with possibly less players.

On Day 2, I can drop a huge bomb that not everyone is going to like me for, but I think is in our best interest.  (I say that because some of you will argue that it's not in town's best interest, but I think the pros outweigh the cons heavily.)

I do not see why a no-lynch is good for us, but I might support the plan if you can promise us a reason D2.
Since there seem to be more than one non-town faction, it is less bad than usual to let a lynch chance go. We can always hope for them to kill each other.

[Teproc]

Not really. Let's say there's a three-man scumteam and a lone third-party. The three-man scum party has a 12/13 shot of killing town, the SK has 12/15... those are not great odds for town.

No lynching mostly means losing two active townies right off the bat, basically. It's a hefty price to pay. Even if ash is town and has a great PR to make it all worth it, there's the possibility he doesn't even live to use it. Now granted there's WIFOM because he might have some sort of bulletproof or some protective role might target him or scum might not target him because of that, but it's still a risk.

[reinoe]

And antitown. out.

How is someone changing their playstyle anti-town?  I've reviewed two games by silverspawn.  In RMM18-GUILDS MAFIA, he was derpy town and got mislynched D1.  In Newbie Mafia 7: Fish mafia, he played in a manner in which led to very little suspicion thrown at him but he was also scum.

As town wouldn't it make sense to at least have his town game look more like his scum game if only to prevent getting lynched?  Why would changing behaviors that leads him to getting lynched D1 be anti-town?

What do you actually know about Silverspawn's meta to label him changing it as "anti-town"?

[Witherweaver]

And antitown. out.

How is someone changing their playstyle anti-town?  I've reviewed two games by silverspawn.  In RMM18-GUILDS MAFIA, he was derpy town and got mislynched D1.  In Newbie Mafia 7: Fish mafia, he played in a manner in which led to very little suspicion thrown at him but he was also scum.

As town wouldn't it make sense to at least have his town game look more like his scum game if only to prevent getting lynched?  Why would changing behaviors that leads him to getting lynched D1 be anti-town?

What do you actually know about Silverspawn's meta to label him changing it as "anti-town"?

It's so much that he's changing it, but what he's changing it to.

"Hai guyz I'm townzers" is antitown.  So is "Hey I'm a VT!" and so is "Okay guys this time I'm going to play a normal game" and so is "Go away you can't lynch me" and so is (ongoing_game) and probably the others. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hai guyz

1) I like ashplans. vote: no lynch

2) It seems to me like not pushing the button could actually be really good for town, a redirected kill is going from a 100% chance of being on town to at least some chance of hitting scum.

3) silverspawn purposefully screwing with his meta isn't an alignment tell.

4) Neither is Ichi getting defensive.

5) xeiron is more active than I've usually seen him, but I haven't played much with him. It feels like he's also buddying Teproc a bit. Slight suspicion there.

6) reinoe is awesome.

That's what I've got so far.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I like your new avatar. Also have a townie read on you from your post so far.

I'm willing to go along with ash's plan. I'm not going to vote for a no lynch yet though. We should at least let everyone a chance to check in and talk a little bit before we try to end the day. Though I'm cool with keeping this day very short.

[Teproc]

So you guys are just assuming that

1) ash's undisclosed reason for losing two townies (most likely) is good enough
2) ash is likely enough to survive the night for you guys to take that risk


?

Also still wondering why ash things banking twilight roles would be good for town, or why no lynching would blank twilight roles (they don't all have to be lynch related)

[xeiron]

Not really. Let's say there's a three-man scumteam and a lone third-party. The three-man scum party has a 12/13 shot of killing town, the SK has 12/15... those are not great odds for town.

No lynching mostly means losing two active townies right off the bat, basically. It's a hefty price to pay. Even if ash is town and has a great PR to make it all worth it, there's the possibility he doesn't even live to use it. Now granted there's WIFOM because he might have some sort of bulletproof or some protective role might target him or scum might not target him because of that, but it's still a risk.

And lynching mostly means losing three townies off the bat...
Unless we get lucky and hit scum. 4/16, 4/15 is the kind of odds we get at the start of a game and it is actually not to bad. I will try to do the math tomorrow.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I like your new avatar. Also have a townie read on you from your post so far.

I'm willing to go along with ash's plan. I'm not going to vote for a no lynch yet though. We should at least let everyone a chance to check in and talk a little bit before we try to end the day. Though I'm cool with keeping this day very short.

We need 9 so it's not like you risk someone hammering by voting.

So you guys are just assuming that

1) ash's undisclosed reason for losing two townies (most likely) is good enough
2) ash is likely enough to survive the night for you guys to take that risk


?

Also still wondering why ash things banking twilight roles would be good for town, or why no lynching would blank twilight roles (they don't all have to be lynch related)

I have to admit, I'm curious about ash's plan. You don't think that he thought it through?

[Ichimaru Gin]

oh yeah. vote: no lynch. Man, that is a ton of votes.

[Hydrad]

Yay I like ashersky plans.

Although I'm a bit worried as if asher gets killed during the night then this nolynch plan might go horribly. But I'm curious to see it so I'm ok with Vote: nolynch

[Awaclus]

This no lynch person is super scummy.

Vote: no lynch

[Twistedarcher]

Not I.

With these large games, to many posts have often been a bigger problem than lurkers. The thread becomes so big that nobody wants to reread.
Not to say that I recomend lurking anyway.

agree 100%. please dont make this a 50 d1 those games suck to read.

[Twistedarcher]

i want to lynch today. lynches are good.

[Twistedarcher]

i also think the button needs to be pressed. having every town member's night action being bus driven sounds pretty bad.

[Twistedarcher]

do we know if the button gets pressed at night?

[Archetype]

do we know if the button gets pressed at night?

No.[/color]

[2.71828.....]

Hey!  Ashersky has a plan!

I do like some of the reasoning behind the plan.  Obviously he has a good reason to suggesting it and left whole loaves of bread behind about his role being able to do something pretty epic D2 that a lot of (town) people may not like but should be worth it for town in the end.

That being said, my original vote on Ichi really was just throwing something out there for reactions.  Well, some reactions were had, and I think there are interactions that we can learn from.  However, now Ichi has jumped on that no lynch wagon.  While I generally like Ashersky's plan, I think that trying to push a no lynch wagon early is pretty scummy.  For one, it is a super safe vote.  You are sheeping Ashersky, you don't have to vote against anyone so no one can OMGUS you and vote you back (not that anyone ever OMGUS votes, of course) and possibly start a wagon on you, you don't have to work hard building a case early on, etc, etc.  Building this wagon up also takes away from wagons on people.  And a vote is something you can't fake.  You can bus, you can vote stupidly, you can vote amazingly.  But you are voting for that person.  And that final vote count is something that is VERY useful later on in games. 

Basically, I like my vote: Ichimaru Gin

[Ichimaru Gin]

In other words, you admit your original vote on me was bad and then you vote me again for effect while simultaneously finding me scummy for something that 4 other people are doing. Nice.

vote: e

OMGUS

[2.71828.....]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

[Twistedarcher]

E, multiple people have sheeped Ash, why does Ichi get singled out for the theory reason? You're saying your initial vote was throwing stuff out there, but clearly it's more than that, since you're exclusive voting Ichi for something that's not exclusive to Ichi.

Basically, your vote reads to me as "Vote Ichi because [extended theory talk that doesn't really mean anything]", it's a very generic theory that's not even exclusive to Ichi -- so it kinda reads as a bogus justification to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

What about the fourth? You're really straining this one aren't ya.

PPE: Twistedarcher

[2.71828.....]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

And that should be 5 people.  I missed Hydrad's vote somehow.

[Hydrad]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

And that should be 5 people.  I missed Hydrad's vote somehow.

I'm a ninja.

people have been forgetting to put me in reads list and things lately.

[reinoe]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

Although I'm indifferent about Asherky's plan, to hell with the "logic" on display in post #192 and #194.

Also Townread on TwistedArcher.