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[AndrewisFTTW]

Welcome to M52: Death Note Mafia

Mod: AndrewisFTTW Co-mod: Ichimaru Gin
Flavor by Ichimaru Gin

Player List:

1. Eevee - Teruk Mikami, Mafia Goon, shot D1
2. Hydrad
3. Witherweaver - Hitoshi Demegawa, Vanilla Townie, killed D4
4. Teproc - Touta Matsuda, Vanilla Townie, killed D5
5. silverspawn
6. XerxesPraelor - Light Yagami, Mafia Goon, shot D3
7. sudgy
8. A Drowned Kernal - Soichiro Yagami, Vanilla Townie, killed D2
9. Axxle2 - Anthony Rester, Vanilla Townie, killed D7
10. EgorK - Misa Amane, Mafia Goon, killed D6
11. 2.71828..... - Ryuk, Mafia Goob, shot D8

Spectators tagged: Voltaire, ashersky, Archetype, faust, scott_pilgrim, pacovf, Robz888

f.ds Mafia Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for this game.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. Personal communication outside of the forum postings is NOT ALLOWED unless your Role PM specifically allows it.  For example, Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage in their specified QT.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Deadlines and Player Death:

1. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics, except for twilight.  This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
2. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
3. Days will be 10 days long.



Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Colored text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 48 hours of no activity or upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

Helpful Links:

--Main Wiki Page

--Newbie Guide

--Frequently Asked Questions

--Commonly Used Abbreviations

--Mafia Theory

[AndrewisFTTW]

Game Setup

This game will be open, using the Popcorn Mafia Setup {http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Popcorn_Mafia). 

There will be a total of eleven players, consisting of:
- 7 townies
- 4 mafia

Before the game starts, mafia must elect a townie to be the gunbearer. That player has until deadline runs out to shoot another player. If the gunbearer hits scum, they keep the gun. If the gunbearer hits town, the gunbearer dies and the targeted townie becomes the new gunbearer.

If the gunbearer does not shoot by deadline, they die and the mafia pick a new gunbearer.

The gunbearer is always announced and confirmed as innocent.

For this game the gunbearer will be referred to as the Notebearer.

This game is nightless.

Town will be known as Police-Aligned and mafia will be known as Kira-Aligned.

[Eevee]

🌽🌽🌽 (in)

[Hydrad]

/in

[Witherweaver]

/in !

[Teproc]

Sounds interesting.

Really interesting actually.

/in

[Voltaire]

/tag

[silverspawn]

it sounds... different. definitely /in

[XerxesPraelor]

/in

[sudgy]

Ah, /in.

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[mail-mi]

Hahaha I'm already /in

[ashersky]

/tag

[Archetype]

/tag. I can sub, if needed.

[AndrewisFTTW]

We only need two more!

[Axxle2]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

[Eevee]

The glorious return of Axxle2!

[Ichimaru Gin]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

This being a game, flavor will not be 100% accurate to the show. However, it is based upon the multiple instances in the series when one or more Death Notes were out of Light's direct control, such as the Yotsuba Group and Jack Neylon (and the police).

[EgorK]

/in

[faust]

Not sure why there are so many bolded rules for Night deadlines in a nightless game

Oh, and /tag

[mail-mi]

/out

[2.71828.....]

/in

[scott_pilgrim]

/tag

[2.71828.....]

Ok, time for this to start since M50 just ended.  Plus, I haven't played in a while, and this setup looks super interesting

[A Drowned Kernel]

So someone else join already!

[faust]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

Was this serious? If so, then this game is full I guess...

[AndrewisFTTW]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

Was this serious? If so, then this game is full I guess...

You're right, sorry about that! I'll send out PMs shortly and the game will start 24 hours after everyone has confirmed.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Do you want the speccy faust?

[Teproc]

[AndrewisFTTW]

SHADDAP!

All PMs are out, please confirm by 2:15pm FT tomorrow (10/9).

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

Do you want the speccy faust?

Yes. (I'm so evil, I'm breaking the thread lock!)

[pacovf]

Me too, because I am getting used to it after James Bond

speccy please!

[ashersky]

Also speccy, please.

[AndrewisFTTW]

My mistake, there is no lynching in this game so there will not be vote counts.

PM me for speccy.

THREAD LOCKED!

[Robz888]

/tag.

Speccy plz

[AndrewisFTTW]

Light Yagami opened the door to his apartment and closed it carefully behind him. He took a seat on the couch and opened up the laptop computer sitting on the coffee table. Ryuk lay sprawled across from him eating a red apple. The blinds on the windows lay partially open to the shadowy city skyline of the Kantou Region outside.
 
It was a calm night, peaceful even, in contrast to the decision Light was about to make. He was under too much scrutiny, making it difficult to carry out his divine undertaking. He never slipped when working with the task force in their continued search for Kira. But now, in the moments of near solitude he enjoyed with only Ryuk as his companion, he knew what he had to do.

He heard the front door open and close—that meant Misa had come home. She entered the room and put her hands on his shoulders, massaging them softly.
 
“Why couldn’t you come to my rehearsal again Light?"

He turned to face her and in his usual measured tones promised her that he would be able to make it the next time. She left the room to go change into some more comfortable clothes, while Light remained seated on the couch.
 
You knew this day would come, he thought to himself as he worked out the final details in his head; it took less than a few seconds. For the time being at least, he would have to pass on the Death Note to someone else. Contact with them would of course be limited and dangerous in his present position.
 
But Light had finally settled on who he considered to be the perfect individual to take on the mantle of the new Kira. He only hoped that things wouldn’t spiral out of control; he could no longer rely on Misa as an accomplice to his mission. Her safety was of some importance to him, and she was better off without those memories for the time being.

Elsewhere, Teru Mikami entered the gym, seated himself at one of the pec fly machines, and began to perform the same exercises he had every day for the past five years.

A Drowned Kernal is the Notebearer.

Day 1 ends at 2:00pm FT on October 19th.

[Hydrad]

woo i'm excited

[Hydrad]

also even though there are no lynches I think we could still use a voting system to see who we suspect?

[Witherweaver]

Sweet let's shoot some people.


So there's no Night phase.. setup doesn't say anything about the scum team getting day chat.  Anyone play this format before?

[silverspawn]

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, Mafiascum has a sample PM that gives a QT link, so I'm guessing scum has chat available through the entire thing.

[Witherweaver]

Obligatory Vote: Silverspawn[/b[

[Witherweaver]

Make that Vote: Silverspawn.  Shirking off suspicion before you're suspected, and all that.

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

[silverspawn]

yea uhu. maybe i'm just that good and hydrad is scum

make that vote: Hydrad

[silverspawn]

but man I really expected to be the IC. this is disappointing.

[silverspawn]

oh I forgot we can't even vote. So there is no need to bold them

[Witherweaver]

Eh, we should keep vote counts, so following format would be good.

[AndrewisFTTW]

We can keep vote counts if you want.

[Witherweaver]

I am the want.

[silverspawn]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

[Hydrad]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

[Hydrad]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

edit: Purposely not follow the majority and hit scum instead.

[Witherweaver]

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game. 

[silverspawn]

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game. 

I think this is pretty important and should be discussed more before we just decide it.

and what do you think about why scum didn't make me the IC? Am I that good at the game? huh? huh?

[Hydrad]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

[silverspawn]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.0

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Hydrad (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (9): Eevee, Hydrad, Teproc, XerxesPraelor, sudgy, A Drowned Kernal, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828.....

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[silverspawn]

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

I didn't say what I wanted to.. I meant to say, maybe they think he's easy to detect as scum.

[Witherweaver]

So some reference.. was looking at a Mafiascum game of this format, and here is the Mafia QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BrLTFPmPnNA

(It was linked in the thread.)

The main factor of determining who to give the gun to was mislynchability, and the accuracy of their reads was secondary probably.  I'm guessing whether or not they felt someone would get mislynched (in a regular game) was a main thing here.

Hydrad has a history of getting mislynched or being found scummy in every game he's been in.  New players are, in general I think, more susceptible to getting mislynched.

[Hydrad]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

[A Drowned Kernel]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

[silverspawn]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

I'm not :c

[Hydrad]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

If I was scum I don't even know how I would go around picking people. I would probably just select someone randomly as after the first myslynch there isn't much control over it.

Maybe they picked you because they felt you would go along with the majority and that they could influence the majority? 4 scum is going to have a huge influence on votes.

[Teproc]

vote : WW

[Witherweaver]

vote : WW

Wrong!

[Teproc]

vote : WW

Wrong!

Seems about right.

P.S. : To anyone wondering, I don't do RVS so this is a serious vote.

[Teproc]

Also I agree with treating the gun (or the death note in this case) as a lynch, as boring as that is.

[Witherweaver]

I'm not so concerned with getting shot, though.  Because then I get a gun.  And then I can shoot bitches.

[Witherweaver]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

[Teproc]

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

[Witherweaver]

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

?

[Teproc]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

[sudgy]

Vote: silverspawn

I agree that his first post seems like it's pushing aside suspicion when there isn't any, and it could be planned in a QT.  I usually do RVS but I actually found a legitimate reason to vote someone right away.

[Witherweaver]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

No, trying to make you think that so that you will shoot me, so that I get the gun.

[Witherweaver]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

[Teproc]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

[sudgy]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

[Teproc]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

[sudgy]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

Not much weird.

[XerxesPraelor]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

This is useful information, but looks like the mindset scum would be in.

vote: ww especially since votes don't matter here as much.

[XerxesPraelor]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

[Witherweaver]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

Are you saying they're both town?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.1

silverspawn (2): Witherweaver, sudgy
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (2): Teproc, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (6): Eevee, Hydrad, A Drowned Kernal, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828.....

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[XerxesPraelor]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

[Hydrad]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

[Teproc]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

[sudgy]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Not really.  I haven't been playing much recently so I don't really know half of the people here well enough to make a good guess.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

I was commented on who I  would pick for the gun bearer if I were scum.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

Muwahahahaha. 

[Hydrad]

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Another important note: I will not be around for the "official" deadline. The latest I can be sure to be online is 10 am forum time on the 19th, so I'm going to treat that as my deadline for shooting. If there's no majority lynch before then, then as I said before, I'll shoot whoever has the largest wagon.

[Teproc]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

I wouldn't read too much into it. You're pretty good at making yourself obvtown, might as well make you the IC, is probably the thought process here.

[Teproc]

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

[Witherweaver]

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

That could be a reason for choosing ADK if they think he has good reads.  It's a more risky strategy.. a player may have good reads, but they're still more likely to hit Town early than scum, so it gives them a greater chance of getting rid of that player.

Maybe, give the first gun to the first player you'd want to night kill.

I might give it to someone I thought was a strong town player.

[Witherweaver]

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

Well I think you'll find that it's wrong, assuming that you're town. 

[2.71828.....]

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable. 

[sudgy]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

[Teproc]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

[2.71828.....]

I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

No better option maybe?  I honestly don't know.  I mean, there are some people I wouldn't pick.  I probably wouldn't pick a lurker because they are usually suspected already.  I wouldn't pick WW because he is always scum.  I wouldn't pick silverspawn because of his playstyle (from what I have seen).  I would try to pick someone who is generally active and gives off a towny vibe and probably wouldn't be a target for the first shot.  I think you fit in that category.

[2.71828.....]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

[Teproc]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

[2.71828.....]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

I mean, yeah, I have a 40% chance that my initial vote will be on scum.  I just don't feel that 40% about anyone yet.

[Teproc]

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

[2.71828.....]

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

ADK being IC.  So yeah, that improves my odds even more.

[Axxle2]

A Drowned Kernal is the Notebearer.

[Axxle2]

woo i'm excited

Too excited??

also even though there are no lynches I think we could still use a voting system to see who we suspect?

Yeah that *could* work... or the death note user can just listen to me.

Sweet let's shoot some people.


So there's no Night phase.. setup doesn't say anything about the scum team getting day chat.  Anyone play this format before?

I think it'd be a pretty silly game if scum didn't get day chat. I haven't played this particular setup, no, but have played a close variant with a Kingmaker. It was on an IRC chat that I was unfamiliar with so I got super frustrated and basically rage quit that type of format since the guys were dicks. (even more so than on mafiascum :O)

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

We actually talked about you some on the google hangout. People actually think very highly of town you, so I think that's probably why they didn't give you the book to start. I think Hydrad might get miskilled at some point, based on the one game I've played with him. Then again your post reads kind of cringey so I can see it coming from scum.

Okay, Mafiascum has a sample PM that gives a QT link, so I'm guessing scum has chat available through the entire thing.

I've already gone over this, of course they have day chat!

Obligatory Vote: Silverspawn[/b[

Gooooood. Vote: Silverspawn

Make that Vote: Silverspawn.  Shirking off suspicion before you're suspected, and all that.

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

You already voted!

yea uhu. maybe i'm just that good and hydrad is scum

make that vote: Hydrad

Sweet, a vote!

but man I really expected to be the IC. this is disappointing.

Start taunting ADK to shoot you, then you'll get your IC status.

oh I forgot we can't even vote. So there is no need to bold them

Bolding is still nice for players so they can easily skim at points.

Eh, we should keep vote counts, so following format would be good.

I JUST SAID THAT! THAT'S TWICE NOW! STOP COPYING ME!

We can keep vote counts if you want.

I am the want.

I am the want.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

Remember, besides the gatekeeper, there are 6 town and 4 mafia, that's a proportion that's a lot more mafia sided than your normal mafia game. The keymaster should keep that in mind.

End Page 2.

[Axxle2]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

Very, very true.

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

edit: Purposely not follow the majority and hit scum instead.

I really doubt that was an edit.

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game.

Yeah we did, and yes we should.

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game. 

I think this is pretty important and should be discussed more before we just decide it.

and what do you think about why scum didn't make me the IC? Am I that good at the game? huh? huh?

I mean we can vote without consequence, right? I don't see a point in not voting. The question is whether we should force ADK to follow the votes though, so that might we worth discussing.

And yeah, I already said you're good at the game, weren't you listening??

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

So say we all.

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

It is known.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

Eh, Axxle already voiced his opinion on the matter and I tend to agree, WIFOM doesn't happen all too much. Maybe you would have done it if ADK had been on the call too since it's such in recent memory, but I don't think you would have given him the note in this situation. but since you have 3 partners maybe they felt fine and you were overruled. I tend toward you-town though.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

He probably just misspoke.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

I didn't say what I wanted to.. I meant to say, maybe they think he's easy to detect as scum.

Err, that's not what I thought you meant, but sure. I assume you mean that since he's easy to detect as scum he'd be easy to detect as town too?

So some reference.. was looking at a Mafiascum game of this format, and here is the Mafia QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BrLTFPmPnNA

(It was linked in the thread.)

The main factor of determining who to give the gun to was mislynchability, and the accuracy of their reads was secondary probably.  I'm guessing whether or not they felt someone would get mislynched (in a regular game) was a main thing here.

Hydrad has a history of getting mislynched or being found scummy in every game he's been in.  New players are, in general I think, more susceptible to getting mislynched.

Yeah, I already mentioned the reason Hydrad probably didn't get the note to start.  I'll read the QT later, but I'll trust you read it right and conveyed it to us. (OH, Klick was in that game! He's a cool guy)

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

Because you don't want to be shot, huh? Huh???

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So Boring!

Making sure you realize there are 4 scum and 6 other town?

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

I'm not :c

Why, because you want to shoot him??? Huh???

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

If I was scum I don't even know how I would go around picking people. I would probably just select someone randomly as after the first myslynch there isn't much control over it.

Maybe they picked you because they felt you would go along with the majority and that they could influence the majority? 4 scum is going to have a huge influence on votes.

Yeah, and it looked like they picked right with ADK!

vote : WW

Wrong!

vote : WW

Wrong!

...

vote : WW

Wrong!

Seems about right.

P.S. : To anyone wondering, I don't do RVS so this is a serious vote.

Cool.

Also I agree with treating the gun (or the death note in this case) as a lynch, as boring as that is.

Did you know Quasimodo was called Bo in the first draft of Hunchback? Audiences found it too Bo ring.

I'm not so concerned with getting shot, though.  Because then I get a gun.  And then I can shoot bitches.

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

See above.

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

?

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

?

!

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

Us? Who the heck is us?
eh.
Vote: teproc

Vote: silverspawn

I agree that his first post seems like it's pushing aside suspicion when there isn't any, and it could be planned in a QT.  I usually do RVS but I actually found a legitimate reason to vote someone right away.

Yeah, he's a fine vote.

Page 3... complete!

[Axxle2]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

No, trying to make you think that so that you will shoot me, so that I get the gun.

Obviously.

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

Yes, I've told him several times.

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

I haven't and am looking forward to it!

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

Well that won't happen this game!

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

I told you, I haven't played with him before!

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

Not much weird.

*Not much: weird.
FTFY

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

This is useful information, but looks like the mindset scum would be in.

vote: ww especially since votes don't matter here as much.

How is this scum mindset? Assertions != truth

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

Nah. Then again nothing reminds me of last game since I wasn't in it. Also this is another post that feels a bit scummy, the age old "look at this thing is it scummy or not?"

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

Are you saying they're both town?

Loool.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

I think that's something WW wouldn't lie about. I mean maybe he's throwing it out of proportion, but that's because he's on the receiving end of the bad read so he's a bit more sensitive when it happens. It's solidifying my townread on him.

Re the ppe: Zzz... How does that do anything but up your postcount? Is there a point to pointing it out?

3 strikes, you're out.
Vote: XP

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

Or good reads, Whatever.

Actually you might want to give the gun to someone that can peg you in the late game since it's likely they're going to die day 1 and not be able to peg you later.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

The point WW was trying to make is that he wouldn't give ADK the gun, he can't give ADK the gun if he's town.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

Yeah. Yes except in the case that I mentioned where he wanted to eliminate ADK early, which isn't that WIFOM at all, or if it is it only has to last him a day or so. Eh, it's all pursuading me. maybe. maybe i need another drnk

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Not asking me???

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Not really.  I haven't been playing much recently so I don't really know half of the people here well enough to make a good guess.

And you like half of us half as well as we deserve? :"(

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

I was commented on who I  would pick for the gun bearer if I were scum.

Yes, yes you did.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

Muwahahahaha.

I like you. Please don't be scum

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

Hey, I did that once. Twice in fact!

Another important note: I will not be around for the "official" deadline. The latest I can be sure to be online is 10 am forum time on the 19th, so I'm going to treat that as my deadline for shooting. If there's no majority lynch before then, then as I said before, I'll shoot whoever has the largest wagon.

Sounds good! Also boring!

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

I wouldn't read too much into it. You're pretty good at making yourself obvtown, might as well make you the IC, is probably the thought process here.

That's probably it. I'm probably not the deathnote carrier since I have a 100% vig rate and like flaunting it (also glad I'm not the shooter since that rate might go down T_T)

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

Clearly.

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

That could be a reason for choosing ADK if they think he has good reads.  It's a more risky strategy.. a player may have good reads, but they're still more likely to hit Town early than scum, so it gives them a greater chance of getting rid of that player.

Maybe, give the first gun to the first player you'd want to night kill.

I might give it to someone I thought was a strong town player.

That's what I said! Goodness, stop stealing all my ideas, WW! I take it back, I don't like you anymore 

(Also you do know that'd be most likely you in this case, right?)

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

Well I think you'll find that it's wrong, assuming that you're town.

He'd also be wrong if he was scum, just wrong in the right way.

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable.

Zzzzz No vote?

Page for completion. Also Page 4 completion.

[Axxle2]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

You misunderstand, the shooter is the only one who gets killed if the town is wrong, and the town is wrong decently often. They'd give the gun to the person who is the most dangerous later on, ie the person they'd likely nightkill in a regular game.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Cool, I like this.

I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

No better option maybe?  I honestly don't know.  I mean, there are some people I wouldn't pick.  I probably wouldn't pick a lurker because they are usually suspected already.  I wouldn't pick WW because he is always scum.  I wouldn't pick silverspawn because of his playstyle (from what I have seen).  I would try to pick someone who is generally active and gives off a towny vibe and probably wouldn't be a target for the first shot.  I think you fit in that category.

Sure.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Which means you keep our reads on you as hazy as possible. There was plenty of content this game.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

But there's an even number of scum!

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

I mean, yeah, I have a 40% chance that my initial vote will be on scum.  I just don't feel that 40% about anyone yet.

Err, I thought e was a math term?

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

^

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

ADK being IC.  So yeah, that improves my odds even more.

Four out of nine ain't bad~

A Drowned Kernal is the Notebearer.

DAMMIT I AM THE ONE WHO... err wait, that's me. Carry on then.

All caught up!

[Axxle2]

*waits patiently... and doctorly*

[Axxle2]

I'll read the QT later

This is probably a lie, fyi, I like pie, don't dwi.

[silverspawn]

I like you. Please don't be scum

[2.71828.....]

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

[Teproc]

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

[2.71828.....]

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

Did you read his catchup post? 

I have a 100% vig rate and like flaunting it

We could use someone like that as our notebearer.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Or we can just keep him alive and he can tell me who to shoot.

[Witherweaver]

Axxle2 thinks I'm town. You can trust him, he's drunk.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.2

silverspawn (1): sudgy
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor
2.71828..... (2): Teproc, Witherweaver
XerxesPraelor (1): Axxle2
Axxle2 (1): 2.71828.....

Not Voting (4): Eevee, Hydrad, A Drowned Kernal, EgorK

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[silverspawn]

I hope Axxle is town. But we don't need him to be the gunbearer, we can just let him decide whom to shoot anyway. But that's for ADK to decide.

[Teproc]

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

[Teproc]

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

[Witherweaver]

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

Or if I think he'll go on a scum killing spree

Also, I think he'll be extremely hard to read.

[sudgy]

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

[EgorK]

It seems I'll be vla till monday. I hope you won't generate something like agot d1 volume in the meantime

[silverspawn]

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

Well if he's true that he never missed as a vig, it makes sense to let him decide. Other than that, there's not really a reason.

[Hydrad]

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

[XerxesPraelor]

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Have you been one?

[Hydrad]

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Have you been one?

Yes I was a 1 shot vig in james bond mafia and killed robz. so not much experience

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was mostly just joking.

[Axxle2]

I like you. Please don't be scum

Oh gosh, I'm blushing.

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

No and I don't think *you* would want me as a notebearer, maybe town though.

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

Good question, but lack of response to anything I wrote is pretty bad.

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

Did you read his catchup post? 

I have a 100% vig rate and like flaunting it

We could use someone like that as our notebearer.

Yeah, or just shoot me as a last resort as a godmode like cheat.

Or we can just keep him alive and he can tell me who to shoot.

Axxle2 likey.

Axxle2 thinks I'm town. You can trust him, he's drunk.

howeduno??//?>?

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Yeah, I've been thinking that e was worth the vote, and I think the wagon has started taking steam
vote: e

I hope Axxle is town. But we don't need him to be the gunbearer, we can just let him decide whom to shoot anyway. But that's for ADK to decide.

Good plan is good.

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

It's a town thing, you wouldn't understand.

[Axxle2]

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

e's plan of shooting me is win win. Either I'm scum and town gets closer to winning, or I'm town and town autowins since I'll kill all the scum afterwards.

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

Or if I think he'll go on a scum killing spree

Also, I think he'll be extremely hard to read.

I'm not that hard to read unless I post in font size 1 or something.

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

The more votes I see on me the more I think it's a meh idea. I mean it's probably because I'm conditioned that being voted for is a bad thing but eh.

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

Didn't teproc say that?

It seems I'll be vla till monday. I hope you won't generate something like agot d1 volume in the meantime

Wait, you're in this game???

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

Well if he's true that he never missed as a vig, it makes sense to let him decide. Other than that, there's not really a reason.

Yeah, I think people are taking a joke a bit too far and a bit too seriously.

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Well I got it first, so there!

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Have you been one?

Yes I was a 1 shot vig in james bond mafia and killed robz. so not much experience

I think I have 5 forum shots and 2 IRL shots correct.

I was mostly just joking.

[Axxle2]

I just realized that the terrible thing about this setup is that we can't just shoot lurkers for the hell of it, since if we shoot wrong they get the book. Wheeeeee...

[silverspawn]

so, in all seriousness, do you think you should be the one deciding whom to shoot?

of course, objectively speaking, there is a big chance that you're scum, so doing something like that would be even more dangerous than treating this as a normal game with 4 scum to manipulate wagons

[Axxle2]

so, in all seriousness, do you think you should be the one deciding whom to shoot?

of course, objectively speaking, there is a big chance that you're scum, so doing something like that would be even more dangerous than treating this as a normal game with 4 scum to manipulate wagons

I think I've been out of the loop in this meta that I probably shouldn't be the absolute authority, as much as I'd think it'd be hilarious if I peg the scumteam this game. I'd appreciate it if my vote would pull a retired professional sports player and took on extra weight!

[Axxle2]

[Axxle2]

NSFW for language.

[Axxle2]

Also spoilers *IGUESS*

[Axxle2]

Oh, and are you Silver Spawn or Silver's Pawn? I've always wondered.

[silverspawn]

silver-spawn. this name goes back way before dominion.

but you're not the first one who gets this idea.

[silverspawn]

also, lowercase. very important 

[Axxle2]

silver-spawn. this name goes back way before dominion.

but you're not the first one who gets this idea.

Yeah, I assumed it was a pre-dominion username, most of the usernames here are, I suspect. Just wanted to make sure I was pronouncing it right in my headcanon.

"silverspawn woke up suddenly, and for some reason knew that today was going to be different..."

[silverspawn]

"silverspawn woke up suddenly, and for some reason knew that today was going to be different..."

.... and? you can't just leave a cliffhanger like that 

[Axxle2]

silverspawn woke up suddenly, and for some reason knew that today was going to be different...

Well, if I want to tell this story properly, I probably should start from the beginning.

It was 5 pm on a Sunday. The cool evening breeze was flowing in through the open window. silverspawn immediately shut it. He hated the cold and anything to do with it, he just would not let it go. Jacking up the heater to make his room nice and toasty, he took out his trusty laptop and pulled up his usual websites. After scoffing for a while at some truly terrible threads, he finally felt the caress of sleep inviting him. As he lay down his head, however, he heard a tapping at the window.

"Strange," silverspawn thought. "I'm on the second floor, that shouldn't be possible. It must be the trees." Despite knowing there weren't any trees in the immediate area.

*taptaptap* he heard once more.

"Well, I better check it out. There's probably a bird out there that I need to chase away."

silverspawn open the blinds and saw... a boy. How strange. The sun's last rays disappeared as soon as the blinds were opened, but in that instant, silverspawn could have sworn that the boy was sparkling...

(passing out, tbc)

[silverspawn]

well, i try to be economical, and don't heat much. but the story is pretty fascinating.

[silverspawn]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

[Teproc]

I actuall agree with that. I think e and Axxle are scummy, WW a little too.

WHo else is in this game ? Egork and... sudgy right ? Still missing someone I think.

[Teproc]

Eevee is in this game ?

XP and Hydrad too, I remember them, they're kinda townie.

[silverspawn]

vote: Eeevee for lurking?

[2.71828.....]

Sure, I have 3 votes for me to be the next notebearer, so I might as well respond to them.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Comparing this game to a blitz game?  I guess that is the only scum performance you have to go back to (except village mafia, but I don't really count that) so I guess that is fair, but really?  I mean, yeah, I was being open-ended and that makes it harder to get reads on a person later in the game, but it was still the first day.  I try to keep my options open but then when I think I have found scum I will go for it.  Like when I went after Archetype in Toy Story.  Or Faust in Dynasty Warriors.  When I think I have found scum you will be sure to know. 

Really, I could do the same thing with your play style.  All you do is throw around votes looking for something to stick.  First you vote WW because he is overly self-aware.  Then you vote for me because my first post is a little wishy-washy without content.  But this time it has actually stuck around a bit and picked up two more votes.  Congrats!  Now your scum partners can slowly fill up the wagon and "lynch" me. 

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Are you saying my vote on Axxle2 was me trying to come up with a townie plan for us?  Because that vote was not entirely serious.  While it does have merit in my opinion (Axxle2 has not had a lot of content so far but has posted a ton, mostly jokes.  Which seems like an easy thing for scum to do to get town cred) I wasn't trying to come up with some master plan.

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Yeah, I've been thinking that e was worth the vote, and I think the wagon has started taking steam
vote: e

This is a classic "third in the wagon" comfortable vote.  Not a very suspicious place to be, but still makes it a real wagon rather than a couple of votes.  Makes me like my vote on Axxle2 more.

PPE:3

[Teproc]

I don't think it's fair to say Axxle doesnt' have a lot of content. It's hard to analyze content, but it still counts, very much so.

I actually think the comparaison to blitz games is very relevant here, because we are facing a pool of VTs with a huge proportion of scum in it. I would say this setup is more similar to a blitz game than it is to a normal game with something like a ++ setup.

[silverspawn]

yea, but you don't take blitz games very seriously, do you?

[2.71828.....]

yea, but you don't take blitz games very seriously, do you?

That probably varies person to person.  I know I did not take it as seriously as a regular game.

[Teproc]

If anything, I actually take blitz games more seriously than norma games. They're very tense !

[silverspawn]

my first game was blitz, and e got lynched in the first few hours for no reason, and then I got lynched even though noone really thought I was scum. It felt very bastardish.

[Teproc]

Was it the usual blitz setup ? The one where there are two ICs and three scum out of 9 people and you have to lynch two scum to win ?

[Teproc]

OK I just checked and it was another setup, so I don't know about that.

The setup I'm talking about which we've used a lot for blitz games has 9 players, a 3-man scum team, 2  ICs and a White Flag mechanic (you only need to lynch two scum to win). Oh and scum has daychat. It's the awesomest and it is similar to this setup in the sense that scum is heavy in numbers and can manipulate lynches, a lot.

[XerxesPraelor]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

No, trying to make you think that so that you will shoot me, so that I get the gun.

Rereading now

I'm still trying to figure out to what extent this is serious. In any case, it's definitely really self-conscious, which feels out of character for ww.

[XerxesPraelor]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Probably either because you tend to not catch them or because they know we'll think that and so suspect other people more. I think we should just flow with it - the voting system makes it basically not a problem at all.

[XerxesPraelor]

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

This post feels towny to me - scum might not have the same emotional reaction.

[XerxesPraelor]

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable. 

This post looks like it says something but doesn't actually do anything but approve of already consensus things. vote: e

[XerxesPraelor]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

I think teproc makes some good points here, but leading questions are at the very least annoying and at the worst scummy. It's not a big deal though, just something I'll remember.

[XerxesPraelor]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

You don't care about keeping your options open as town. I mean, you can always change your vote.

[XerxesPraelor]

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Scum or town, e was very probably joking. Trying to turn this into a case is scummy. vote: witherweaver

[XerxesPraelor]

I hope Axxle is town. But we don't need him to be the gunbearer, we can just let him decide whom to shoot anyway. But that's for ADK to decide.

Silverspawn has the right idea here. (Unless axxle2 is scum)

[XerxesPraelor]

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

As a lynch, or as a shooter? If you think he has good reads, then just vote for whoever he finds scummy - that way ADK doesn't die for nothing. I could see a case that he's hard to read and so a good target, though. Is that what you mean?

[XerxesPraelor]

I just realized that the terrible thing about this setup is that we can't just shoot lurkers for the hell of it, since if we shoot wrong they get the book. Wheeeeee...

This is a good point, and means that we need to put more non-voting pressure on lurkers to compensate. I'm not sure how to do that, though, without making people who really can't post much get unfairly targeted. Any ideas?

[XerxesPraelor]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

I guess the thing about your username slowed it down. I'm trying now to provoke enough people to get something happening.

[XerxesPraelor]

Sure, I have 3 votes for me to be the next notebearer, so I might as well respond to them.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Comparing this game to a blitz game?  I guess that is the only scum performance you have to go back to (except village mafia, but I don't really count that) so I guess that is fair, but really?  I mean, yeah, I was being open-ended and that makes it harder to get reads on a person later in the game, but it was still the first day.  I try to keep my options open but then when I think I have found scum I will go for it.  Like when I went after Archetype in Toy Story.  Or Faust in Dynasty Warriors.  When I think I have found scum you will be sure to know. 

Really, I could do the same thing with your play style.  All you do is throw around votes looking for something to stick.  First you vote WW because he is overly self-aware.  Then you vote for me because my first post is a little wishy-washy without content.  But this time it has actually stuck around a bit and picked up two more votes.  Congrats!  Now your scum partners can slowly fill up the wagon and "lynch" me. 

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Are you saying my vote on Axxle2 was me trying to come up with a townie plan for us?  Because that vote was not entirely serious.  While it does have merit in my opinion (Axxle2 has not had a lot of content so far but has posted a ton, mostly jokes.  Which seems like an easy thing for scum to do to get town cred) I wasn't trying to come up with some master plan.

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Yeah, I've been thinking that e was worth the vote, and I think the wagon has started taking steam
vote: e

This is a classic "third in the wagon" comfortable vote.  Not a very suspicious place to be, but still makes it a real wagon rather than a couple of votes.  Makes me like my vote on Axxle2 more.

PPE:3

I both think e's reaction to the first bit here is a bit of an overreaction (it's not shown, but the word count of the 'rebuttal' is large compared to how much it actually refutes) but I also think Axxle2's playstyle would be easy to copy, and he hasn't really done anything to deserve town credit. Still, I think vote: e is the best option here.

[XerxesPraelor]

... I tried!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Has Eevee posted anything yet? I know EgorK hasn't posted anything of substance yet, I'd like to give everyone a chance to say stuff before I start spouting my ill-conceived IC opinions.

[XerxesPraelor]

Wait, is Eevee really in this game? I'm pretty sure he hasn't pposted

I saw EgorK say he'll be VLA, but I don't know if Eevee has an excuse. I'd say getting the discussion going again is probably more important than whatever you'd gain by holding back.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote Count 1.3
Eevee (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor
2.71828..... (3): Teproc, Witherweaver, Axxle 2
Axxle2 (2): 2.71828..... , sudgy
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor
Not Voting (4): Eevee, Hydrad, A Drowned Kernal, EgorK

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[XerxesPraelor]

Looks like my vote wasn't obvious enough. (Or maybe I forgot to switch back)

vote: e

[sudgy]

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

As a lynch, or as a shooter? If you think he has good reads, then just vote for whoever he finds scummy - that way ADK doesn't die for nothing. I could see a case that he's hard to read and so a good target, though. Is that what you mean?

Both, I guess?  I'm having a hard time getting into this game for some reason.

[silverspawn]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

[Hydrad]

Vote: e

I feel like e or WW is scum but I don't know why I get that feeling. I'm going with e for now though.

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI that's L-1.

[silverspawn]

FYI that's L-1.

any opinion on this? are you still waiting for others to write stuff before you tell us what you think?

[XerxesPraelor]

I think it's actually L-2.

[Witherweaver]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

[Teproc]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

You know what ? I still think e could be scum, but I'd be stunned if you're not. This is not how you play as town.

vote : WW

[Witherweaver]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

You know what ? I still think e could be scum, but I'd be stunned if you're not. This is not how you play as town.

vote : WW

Sweet, I like this argument.  Vote: WW.

[Teproc]

Great.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: WW

New policy going forward, for as long as I have the gun: anyone who self-votes gets shot on the spot. It's obnoxious and anti-town.

[Witherweaver]

Silverspawn's statement has a lot of convenience in it.  As hypothetical scum, even if e is not his partner, Silver gets some town cred for defense, and saying "there is scum on the wagon" is probably more likely to be true than not.  And if we end up lynching one of Silver's partner on the wagon, then he gets some bus cred there too.

[Witherweaver]

vote: WW

New policy going forward, for as long as I have the gun: anyone who self-votes gets shot on the spot. It's obnoxious and anti-town.

Too bad I don't have a really solid read yet

[Teproc]

I agree that silver saying there's scum on the wagon is obviously a very safe statement, however it seems to be a pretty normal town mindset than to think "wow, in this game with 4 scum, that fast-moving wagon has to be manipulated by scum". I also have that voice in my head at least.

[Witherweaver]

I agree that silver saying there's scum on the wagon is obviously a very safe statement, however it seems to be a pretty normal town mindset than to think "wow, in this game with 4 scum, that fast-moving wagon has to be manipulated by scum". I also have that voice in my head at least.

That's a good point, about the fast moving wagon.  I was more somewhat put off by  the "the case is ridiculous" line.  I mean.. what's ridiculous about the case?  I had a feeling he seemed like scum.. that's not really a case, just a hunch.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote Count 1.4
Eevee (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (3): Teproc, Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel
2.71828..... (3): Axxle 2, XerxesPraelor, Hydrad
Axxle2 (2): 2.71828..... ,sudgy
Not Voting (2): Eevee, EgorK

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[XerxesPraelor]

Well, considering that ww will probably unvote, I'm going to stay on e until someone gives a town narrative that makes sense. Basically the one thing holding me back from voting ww is that he makes sense.

[XerxesPraelor]

Silverspawn's statement has a lot of convenience in it.  As hypothetical scum, even if e is not his partner, Silver gets some town cred for defense, and saying "there is scum on the wagon" is probably more likely to be true than not.  And if we end up lynching one of Silver's partner on the wagon, then he gets some bus cred there too.

This, for example, is medium-strong evidence against ss.

[A Drowned Kernel]

unvote

I was kind of cranky when I posted that, and it was probably an overreaction. But: I am not going to count self-votes, if WW reaches 6 with a vote on himself, I won't shoot him until someone else votes.

Also, I'm going to give a big ol' reads post(s) tomorrow. Right now I have a headache.

[Eevee]

Yea, I was VLA, just read the entire thread now.

Vote: e

I didn't so much like the original case, but his post of quoting all the votes on him and giving a lengthy response felt way out of proportion, which I feel usually comes from scum. I don't have a strong opinion on WW, self-meta stuff is always labeled as scummy, but I think at least for myself it's actually town tell.

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

[Axxle2]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

Shoot:
XP
e
sudgy
EgorK

Shoot after:
Teproc
Hydrad
Eevee

Don't shoot:
Witherweaver
silverspawn

[Witherweaver]

I like Axxle's plan.

[Axxle2]

Really, I could do the same thing with your play style.  All you do is throw around votes looking for something to stick.  First you vote WW because he is overly self-aware.  Then you vote for me because my first post is a little wishy-washy without content.  But this time it has actually stuck around a bit and picked up two more votes.  Congrats!  Now your scum partners can slowly fill up the wagon and "lynch" me.

Is this a serious case?

[Axxle2]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

I guess the thing about your username slowed it down. I'm trying now to provoke enough people to get something happening.

It really didn't. I asked, he answered, I made a story. That was like a 4 post detour.

[Axxle2]

I like XP a bit more as town for his catchup posts, fyi. He can switch with Hydrad in the later pile.

[Axxle2]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

White knighting is protecting a townie when you're scum, and yet you're on the e wagon. What exactly are you trying to say here?

[Axxle2]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

This is why I'm voting for him:
1. He didn't vote for anyone in his first post, lack of commitment is scummy.
2. In his first post he mentioned that two players were "self aware" but "cool but not necessarily scummy". I don't even know how that could be "cool" but being super tepid about whether he wants to say they're scum or not indicates scum.
3. He gets somewhat defensive about his first post, and even blasts someone for furthering the game state (voting for someone right out the gate). That's playing more towards the scum win con than the town one.
4. A minor point, but he got the math slightly wrong regarding voting for scum, which probably comes from scum slightly more than town since it shows he hasn't hasn't thought too much about the town motivated vote.
5. He's on the "let's waste a shot to make Axxle2 the shooter" bandwagon, which I find a bit antitown, as hilarious a line we could take.
5a. He votes me saying "either I'm scum or..." without explaining why he thinks I'm scum.
6. He already had 2 votes on him, wagons are protown. (side note: If town worried about how they looked being the Xth person on a wagon we'd never get anyone lynched.)

[Axxle2]

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

Don't confuse Axxle2 with Axxle though. Axxle2 plays like an Olympic racing shoe: fast and loose.

[silverspawn]

The case on e was, pretty much, not really a case. And yet it gained votes with impressive speed. I think that's pretty ridiculous, so I said, "I think that's pretty ridiculous".

I mean look at his first post:

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable.

and here are a bunch of votes for him:

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable. 

This post looks like it says something but doesn't actually do anything but approve of already consensus things. vote: e

Looks like my vote wasn't obvious enough. (Or maybe I forgot to switch back)

vote: e

Vote: e

I feel like e or WW is scum but I don't know why I get that feeling. I'm going with e for now though.

Yea, I was VLA, just read the entire thread now.

Vote: e

I didn't so much like the original case, but his post of quoting all the votes on him and giving a lengthy response felt way out of proportion, which I feel usually comes from scum. I don't have a strong opinion on WW, self-meta stuff is always labeled as scummy, but I think at least for myself it's actually town tell.

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

they are just raining out of nowhere. I mean there was some stuff in between, but what? e could totally be scum, but you are building a serious wagon on him based on almost nothing. Especially the way Hydrad jumped on it was super scummy. This isn't RVS anymore, e was at L-2 (?)

vote: Hydrad

you can vote for e. You can even vote for him without presenting a case. But if you do, don't complain when I think the case is bad.

[silverspawn]

and yea, I think there is scum on the wagon. not one, duh, that's a pretty trivial statement. My guess is more 2+. Hydrad. XP? WW? Maybe even Eevee.

[silverspawn]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

[Witherweaver]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

White knighting is protecting a townie when you're scum, and yet you're on the e wagon. What exactly are you trying to say here?

If Silver is scum, e is likely town.

[silverspawn]

if false ... is not a very interesting statement in any case

[Hydrad]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

What do you have against me!

[Teproc]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

What do you have against me!

You got mislynched twice, it's not a silverspawn thing.

@WW : I disagree with your statement there, I think wagon dynamics are very different because there are so many scum players. I could easily see scum!silver raising the "wow, that wagon was fast !" issue to protect his partner.

I do think he's town though (silver).

[A Drowned Kernel]

Here's my reread and off-the-top of my head reactions.

Sweet let's shoot some people.


So there's no Night phase.. setup doesn't say anything about the scum team getting day chat.  Anyone play this format before?

“I don't know something scum would know!” in his first post. I know I bring up Monster's U a lot but dammit I was right about that. It's not a huge deal but I'm going on the record as not exactly buying it.

Silverspawn's early posts seem towny to me. His whole “I'm not the gunbearer?” seems natural.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

This would be a decent point, except that he was self-conscious enough to bring it up. And I do remember at least one game (Homeland I think) where I didn't suspect WW at all until he made a post saying “ADK hasn't accused me of being scum yet, you ok?”.

vote : WW

I generally get a towny vibe from vote-only posts, especially early in the game. Scum goes out of their way to justify their votes. Though at this point, I think I should point that Teproc might have a very good meta reason to make me the notebearer- in Dune mafia, which just finished, I was town and he was scum and I was completely convinced of his towniness.

I'm not so concerned with getting shot, though.  Because then I get a gun.  And then I can shoot bitches.

“Because I'm totally town!”

Vote: silverspawn

I agree that his first post seems like it's pushing aside suspicion when there isn't any, and it could be planned in a QT.  I usually do RVS but I actually found a legitimate reason to vote someone right away.

This is in the middle of Teproc and WW going back and forth, if WW is scum sudgy might easily be his partner trying to distract.

XP's first posts seem pretty null to me. He votes for WW but it's a point in the game where a wagon obviously isn't going to go through, so it could just as easily come from a scum as from town (regardless of WW's alignment).

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable.

This is kind of contentless first post from e. I guess they can't all be the best first post ever.

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

This strikes me as a little odd, since it's not necessarily true. The majority thing is up to the gunbearer and while it's what I'm doing, I think there are players who would shoot whoever the hell they wanted.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

I agree with Teproc that e is reminding of the blitz game with him. It's the nervousness thing, in that game he made all sorts of “oh in my scum QT” jokes. Then again I think that's the one of the only times I've played with him, so maybe I'm biased. Also the quoted post is indeed pretty ridiculous, scum's way more worried about “keeping their options open” in the early game than town.

Axxle2's big catch-up posts... kind of remind of a similar thing that scum!ash did at beginning of Super Mario, which is put out a lot content without actually saying very much or taking much of a stance. And the whole “I'm too relaxed and jokey to be a nervous scumbag” thing is something I might buy from a newer player, but he's experienced enough to fake it.

Then everyone wants to shoot him. I'd rather shoot some of those people first than try and figure out Axxle2, really.

It seems I'll be vla till monday. I hope you won't generate something like agot d1 volume in the meantime

We need more from you. We have some time, though.

Off-topic: please, please, please continue this.

Sure, I have 3 votes for me to be the next notebearer, so I might as well respond to them.

[snipped]

e's uncomfortable with votes on him. Which, sure, town is too. Defending yourself isn't scummy. But the whole post is a bit defensive, a bit nervous. And starting it off with that “I'm going to be the next notebearer if I get shot, because I'm town, for reals you guys” comment, I dunno.

XP's series of posts reads towny to me. Especially from he, he's usually quieter, but I think that he tends to be quieter as scum than as town.

Vote: e

I feel like e or WW is scum but I don't know why I get that feeling. I'm going with e for now though.

Hydrad... okay, Hydrad seems scummy to me, like, 100% of the time. In that game I modded I had to keep reminding myself that he wasn't actually scum. I'm getting a better feel for his meta I guess, I mean he seems like his normal self. I don't know.

Silverspawn's statement has a lot of convenience in it.  As hypothetical scum, even if e is not his partner, Silver gets some town cred for defense, and saying "there is scum on the wagon" is probably more likely to be true than not.  And if we end up lynching one of Silver's partner on the wagon, then he gets some bus cred there too.

Okay, there's some truth to this. And I do think what WW is describing is how newer scum players tend to play; in my first scum game I went out of my way to defend a player I new would flip town (I know I reference other games a lot, it's just how I approach this game, I'm the IC so y'all can just deal with it for now)

I agree that silver saying there's scum on the wagon is obviously a very safe statement, however it seems to be a pretty normal town mindset than to think "wow, in this game with 4 scum, that fast-moving wagon has to be manipulated by scum". I also have that voice in my head at least.

The thing is, I think that scum is going to be very self-conscious about wagon manipulation. With four players, you could easily be too blatant. Having more partners isn't entirely a good thing, as there's more people you have to avoid interacting with in an incriminating way.

I like Eevee's first post, actually. I think scum would make more of an effort to comment on every little thing.

In conclusion:

I would be comfortable shooting WW or e. They're both scummy enough, and they're both people that I think are acceptable as the next notebearer if they are town.

One last thing, that I'm going to try- I think that a sometimes you can catch scum by looking at who's not talking to each other (in that, scum teams are going to avoid directly interacting with each other, whether intentionally or subconsciously). So for what it's worth, and as far as I can tell, here's who's not talking to/about who:

Hydrad (post count 14): teproc, eevee, egork, sudgy
Eevee (3): can't really analyze, as he's only made one post in-game (fix this!)
WW (33): Eevee, sudgy, EgorK
Teproc (28): mentions everyone at least once, but outside of his reads list (which leaves out silverspawn btw): Eevee, XP, EgorK
silverspawn (28): sudgy, EgorK, Teproc (I think SS quotes a Teproc posts but never directly comments on him or responds directly to one of his posts)
XP (24): sudgy
sudgy (: EgorK, e, Eevee, Hydrad, WW
Axxle2 (25): Eevee. But he comments on everything, so.
EgorK (2): Everyone. Post more.
e (11): Eevee, Hydrad, XP, sudgy, EgorK

So no one's talking much about or to Eevee because they're not here. Outside of that, I guess it's not very useful until more people flip. I also think that I have to be more sophisticated in how I analyze this, because there are some people who talk to each other in a conversational way, but never comment on each other's alignments. But that's what I saw looking over things.

[A Drowned Kernel]

sudgy's post count is eight, not a smiley face.

[Witherweaver]

WW (33): Eevee, sudgy, EgorK

"Who's not talking about whom" is an interesting point that I've never considered.  It seems the only people I'm not talking about are the people that haven't really posted anything. 

Also, I'm back to

Vote: e

[Eevee]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

This strikes me as a little odd, since it's not necessarily true. The majority thing is up to the gunbearer and while it's what I'm doing, I think there are players who would shoot whoever the hell they wanted.

When we discussed this setup during the sunday mafia chat, I think most of us agreed we'd take input from the town but ultimately make the decision ourselves.

[Eevee]

WW (33): Eevee, sudgy, EgorK

"Who's not talking about whom" is an interesting point that I've never considered.  It seems the only people I'm not talking about are the people that haven't really posted anything. 

Also, I'm back to

Vote: e

Self-preservation or a real read?

I prefer e to WW/the field really. His overreaction to the wagon is the scummiest thing to me this far.

As I said, Axxle also seems to be trying too hard for my likening, but I've always found him one of the hardest guys to read, so who knows.

ADK is really towny but gee, that's not exactly helpful.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

This strikes me as a little odd, since it's not necessarily true. The majority thing is up to the gunbearer and while it's what I'm doing, I think there are players who would shoot whoever the hell they wanted.

When we discussed this setup during the sunday mafia chat, I think most of us agreed we'd take input from the town but ultimately make the decision ourselves.

Sure, but not every player was there. I wasn't. And I'm not ultimately making the decision myself- I'm counting my own vote as equal to anyone else's, but I'm explicitly stating if the majority overrules me, I'll go along, which is certainly not something that every player would do.

[Teproc]

How many votes is that on e, and when is the ADK deadline ?

[EgorK]

Interesting read so far, especcially Axlle. Actually if he is really good at vig then vote: Axxle2 as he seems to be hard to read so can be scum as well

[2.71828.....]

How many votes is that on e, and when is the ADK deadline ?

5 votes on me, and ADK's deadline is still the 19th, just in the morning.  So there is lots of time still.  As far as I can tell the case on me is that I have come across as 1) hedgy and 2) nervous under pressure. 

I really don't have much to say about the hedgy part, because it is true.  I haven't come out really strong against anyone so far.  And while this may come across as a scummy attempt to ensure that I am "on the good side" of whatever lynch/shot that happens and to go with the flow of town, it is really just me feeling the water until I find something to go with.  Which may or may not be the general consensus of town.  Call me scummy for it, but this is just the way I tend to work.  In DW2, I didn't come out with a real vote until several days into D1.  By then I had a good feel for people and had enough to convince my (mistakenly) that faust was scum. 

As far as being nervous under pressure goes, one of the biggest reasons I responded to the wagon that was on me was just to get discussion moving again.  I wasn't nervous about getting lynched at L-3, I just wanted to put some thoughts out there about what I thought of the votes on me to draw out more reactions.  Those reactions just unfortunately turned out to be that more people thought I was scummy.

[2.71828.....]

Sure, but not every player was there. I wasn't. And I'm not ultimately making the decision myself- I'm counting my own vote as equal to anyone else's, but I'm explicitly stating if the majority overrules me, I'll go along, which is certainly not something that every player would do.

I am really not a fan of this.  I think that the notebearer should listen and put a lot of weight into what the town majority thinks, but should make the ultimate decision himself.

[2.71828.....]

Also, point by point cases are awesome because they are easier to respond to (my responses in bold):

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

This is why I'm voting for him:
1. He didn't vote for anyone in his first post, lack of commitment is scummy.  Got it.  Thanks.  I will put that in my diary under "mafia 101".
2. In his first post he mentioned that two players were "self aware" but "cool but not necessarily scummy". I don't even know how that could be "cool" but being super tepid about whether he wants to say they're scum or not indicates scum.  By "cool" I meant "I will remember this for later but I don't think they are scum yet"
3. He gets somewhat defensive about his first post, and even blasts someone for furthering the game state (voting for someone right out the gate). That's playing more towards the scum win con than the town one.  When I "blasted" Teproc for voting right out of the gate, that was basically just an opposite example of my hedgy first post.  I was attempting to point out that the case on me had a lot more to do about posting style than anything else. 
4. A minor point, but he got the math slightly wrong regarding voting for scum, which probably comes from scum slightly more than town since it shows he hasn't hasn't thought too much about the town motivated vote.  Ok.  Sure.
5. He's on the "let's waste a shot to make Axxle2 the shooter" bandwagon, which I find a bit antitown, as hilarious a line we could take.  OMGUS
5a. He votes me saying "either I'm scum or..." without explaining why he thinks I'm scum.  I wasn't insinuating that you were scum, and therefore did not feel obliged to present a case.  I was merely making a factual statement.
6. He already had 2 votes on him, wagons are protown. (side note: If town worried about how they looked being the Xth person on a wagon we'd never get anyone lynched.)  Good point

[Eevee]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

[2.71828.....]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

1) you already were voting me

2) I am at "shoot-1" so I think I should defend myself just a little

3) No one else has posted anything about anything for almost 24 hours except what you just posted

So  my question at this point is whether you were almost just a careless hammer, or manipulative scum trying to seem innocent about a hammer.  I think the latter. 

vote: Eevee

[Teproc]

We should not be lynching e. Nothing has been happening in the past few days, and I doubt scm would just let their partner go down that easily.

Eevee maybe, but I'm much more convinced about WW.

[XerxesPraelor]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

[Eevee]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

[Witherweaver]

We should not be lynching e. Nothing has been happening in the past few days, and I doubt scm would just let their partner go down that easily.

Eevee maybe, but I'm much more convinced about WW.

Convinced about how awesomely town I am?

[XerxesPraelor]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

But town should be defending themselves, and it's an argument you literally cannot argue against.

[Teproc]

Yeah it's not a scumtell at all. Well it might be for some people but it's generally way overblown an argument (see : Hydrad in Legend of Zelda)

[Witherweaver]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

Wait, who was the L-1 thing about?  e?

[XerxesPraelor]

Yes. I think he was at L-1.

[Eevee]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

But town should be defending themselves, and it's an argument you literally cannot argue against.

Problem isn't defending. It's overreacting to suspicion.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah, I'm less and less convinced about e.

[Hydrad]

Honestly its just a thought and a pretty lame one. But this game has a higher then 50% winrate if town just randomly shoots someone every time.

It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff as mafia can influence it so much.

[Teproc]

Honestly its just a thought and a pretty lame one. But this game has a higher then 50% winrate if town just randomly shoots someone every time.

It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff as mafia can influence it so much.

You're right, that is lame.

[XerxesPraelor]

But it's basically sure that we can get a better win rate if we actually look for scum. The %50 is just a minimum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Er, so I just looked at the wiki entry, and what's scum's actual win condition for this setup? Town can't technically be endgamed, since there's no lynch; if it ever got to one town, he could just shoot all the scum. So I assume scum wins when they outnumber town but it would be nice to know what it is precisely.

[Witherweaver]

Er, so I just looked at the wiki entry, and what's scum's actual win condition for this setup? Town can't technically be endgamed, since there's no lynch; if it ever got to one town, he could just shoot all the scum. So I assume scum wins when they outnumber town but it would be nice to know what it is precisely.

They have to get a majority, including equality. 

[Witherweaver]

It's included in the sample games that are linked on the wiki.  At least the one I looked at.

[Hydrad]

Er, so I just looked at the wiki entry, and what's scum's actual win condition for this setup? Town can't technically be endgamed, since there's no lynch; if it ever got to one town, he could just shoot all the scum. So I assume scum wins when they outnumber town but it would be nice to know what it is precisely.

I believe its when they tie or out number town. Then I'm just going to imagine they all jump the notebook bearer and the town people can't stop them from stealing the book back since they no longer outnumber scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah that's what it looks like. And the fact that scum wins at equality is important.

[Witherweaver]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

1) you already were voting me

2) I am at "shoot-1" so I think I should defend myself just a little

3) No one else has posted anything about anything for almost 24 hours except what you just posted

So  my question at this point is whether you were almost just a careless hammer, or manipulative scum trying to seem innocent about a hammer.  I think the latter. 

vote: Eevee

I actually think this is a kind of good point.  It's sort of accepted meta that town is much less careful than scum is, so scum can try to appear less careful.  Eevee's post looks a bit like the latter, especially considering he was already voting for e, and if he weren't, then it would have been a hammer. 

[Witherweaver]

So it's 7-4 now; we only have two missed shots before "MyLo". 

[Hydrad]

So it's 7-4 now; we only have two missed shots before "MyLo".

but every time we hit scum we get a extra shot to miss before we lose again.

[Witherweaver]

So it's 7-4 now; we only have two missed shots before "MyLo".

but every time we hit scum we get a extra shot to miss before we lose again.

Basically, yeah.  But we need to hit one in the first three.

[XerxesPraelor]

That shouldn't be hard. Unlike normal games, the shooter has about a 1/3 - 1/2 chance, which is pretty high.

[sudgy]

I think overdefending is a valid scumtell.  I haven't seen e do it too much, I'll have to re-look at things.

Sorry I haven't been able to get into the game as much.  Maybe I should do a reads post soon or something.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Defending yourself strongly is scummy when you only have a few votes on you, but once there's a substantial wagon town's going to defend themselves as much as scum.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote Count 1.5
Eevee (2): XerxesPraelor, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (1): Teproc
2.71828..... (4): Axxle 2, Hydrad, Witherweaver, Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[Axxle2]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

What do you have against me!

You got mislynched twice, it's not a silverspawn thing.

@WW : I disagree with your statement there, I think wagon dynamics are very different because there are so many scum players. I could easily see scum!silver raising the "wow, that wagon was fast !" issue to protect his partner.

I do think he's town though (silver).

In the last game I was mafia, town did this for scum. It's a gut reaction ppl have to the first wagon.

[Axxle2]

Sure, but not every player was there. I wasn't. And I'm not ultimately making the decision myself- I'm counting my own vote as equal to anyone else's, but I'm explicitly stating if the majority overrules me, I'll go along, which is certainly not something that every player would do.

I am really not a fan of this.  I think that the notebearer should listen and put a lot of weight into what the town majority thinks, but should make the ultimate decision himself.

If you want to do this, ADK, I'd say at least give yourself doublevoter status or something. You know you're town.

[Axxle2]

In DW2, I didn't come out with a real vote until several days into D1.  By then I had a good feel for people and had enough to convince my (mistakenly) that faust was scum. 

Assuming this is true, this plus his point by point rebuttal of my case makes me want to...
Unvote

[Axxle2]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Mmmm, not really. He's the biggest wagon and now that people have put out cases and now he can respond to them. I mean I guess he could be searching for scum but that's just a bit more antitown than scummy.

[Axxle2]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

If he had like one vote for him that's overdefensive. But he's almost lynched.

[Axxle2]

Vote Count 1.5
Eevee (2): XerxesPraelor, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (1): Teproc
2.71828..... (4): Axxle 2, Hydrad, Witherweaver, Eevee
Axxle2 (1): sudgy
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (2): EgorK, A Drowned Kernel

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

Egor is on me tooooooo

Vote: Hydrad When all else fails... sheep your town reads.

[Eevee]

My vote is based on his initial reaction, though. Of course his situation now warrants the intensity of his reaction.

[Teproc]

In DW2, I didn't come out with a real vote until several days into D1.  By then I had a good feel for people and had enough to convince my (mistakenly) that faust was scum. 

Assuming this is true, this plus his point by point rebuttal of my case makes me want to...
Unvote

I can confirm.

WW doesn't seem to be happening, let's try something else.

vote : Eevee

[Witherweaver]

WW doesn't seem to be happening, let's try something else.

I feel like someone says this every game.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Eevee

When in doubt, sheep the people that want to lynch you.

That's S-1, I think.

[Teproc]

Well I'm probably wrong about one of WW and Eevee.. great.

[EgorK]

Honestly its just a thought and a pretty lame one. But this game has a higher then 50% winrate if town just randomly shoots someone every time.

It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff as mafia can influence it so much.

Unless I forgot how to code actual town chances are about 43% using random votes (and yes, I had accounted for notebearer no shooting himself)

[EgorK]

Go for Axxle. We either eleminate hard to read scum or get good vig

[Teproc]

You guys are putting way too much weight in the 100% vig rate thing...

[Eevee]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

[Witherweaver]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

You said something scummy that one time. 

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.6

Eevee (4): XerxesPraelor, 2.71828....., Teproc, Witherweaver
2.71828..... (2): Hydrad, Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (2): silverspawn, Axxle2

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[Teproc]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

You said something scummy that one time. 

Why can't we lynch this guy again ?

[Witherweaver]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

You said something scummy that one time. 

Why can't we lynch this guy again ?

Because there is no lynching in this version.

[2.71828.....]

Why Eevee is scum

Eevee has been on my case from the very beginning.  In fact, he has posted so little, I can go back to the very beginning and go through all his posts.

• His first post was about how he didn't like the case against me, but thought my reaction was scummy.  He also casually sets up Axxle2 as scum by making a little joke.
• His next post was setup related, but immediately after that he again states how he thinks I overreacted to the votes against me.  And again, he casually sets Axxle2 up as scum. 
• Then he revotes me while I am at L-1 again because he thinks I overreacted to the votes.  This is what really made me think he is scum.  As I said, this vote has to come from either sloppy town or conniving scum.  I mean, I didn't explicitly say "I am at L-1" but 3 posts previous to his revote I stated that I had 5 votes.  The vote itself was enough for me to think he was scum, but now looking back at all his content, I am just confirming it in my mind.  the way he tunnels me has that "certainty" that I lacked in my first post which people find to be very townie (I guess).  But at the same time he is keeping a backdoor open for an Axxle2 lynch.
• His next post is simply a defense for why he is voting for me, saying that over-defending is scummy.  Then qualifies that by saying it is more overreaction than overdefending.  Then all off a sudden he starts to backtrack.  Saying that I was allowed to defend myself when I got to L-1 or so, but I guess not before that.

Also, eevee just isn't giving off his normal friendly town vibe.  Maybe that is just me because he has been targeting me, but in general town!eevee seems to be somewhat more active (recognizing that he did have some v/la at the start).  But in general, he has had any content added to the game, except to enlighten us on how defending yourself is scummy.

[Teproc]

I mean the Eevee lynch is fine but the deafening silence I've been getting with trying to get a wagon on WW is making me feel really good about lynching him.

Still no one ?

[Teproc]

Eevee : for me it's simple. You're being lazy, going for an easy case and overstating it by saying that overedefending yourself is a scum tell (it's been proven time and time again that it isn't) and you just generally feel off.

You also felt completely off to me when I was spectating James Bond though, so... I don't know, you're not my preferred lynch, but why not.

[Witherweaver]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

I think it's of interest that Eevee doesn't defend himself.. he somewhat backed himself into a corner with the "e is overdefending" argument, so if he comes off as defensive here, people can throw that argument back to him.  This is something he'd definitely be conscious of as scum.  Would he be conscious of it as town, too?  Well, probably, so this isn't damning or anything.

[Teproc]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

I think it's of interest that Eevee doesn't defend himself.. he somewhat backed himself into a corner with the "e is overdefending" argument, so if he comes off as defensive here, people can throw that argument back to him.  This is something he'd definitely be conscious of as scum.  Would he be conscious of it as town, too?  Well, probably, so this isn't damning or anything.

This is such a specious argument. You're better than this.

vote : WW

I've rarely been so confident about someone being scum.

[Witherweaver]

Witherweaver