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[AndrewisFTTW]

Welcome to M52: Death Note Mafia

Mod: AndrewisFTTW Co-mod: Ichimaru Gin
Flavor by Ichimaru Gin

Player List:

1. Eevee - Teruk Mikami, Mafia Goon, shot D1
2. Hydrad
3. Witherweaver - Hitoshi Demegawa, Vanilla Townie, killed D4
4. Teproc - Touta Matsuda, Vanilla Townie, killed D5
5. silverspawn
6. XerxesPraelor - Light Yagami, Mafia Goon, shot D3
7. sudgy
8. A Drowned Kernal - Soichiro Yagami, Vanilla Townie, killed D2
9. Axxle2 - Anthony Rester, Vanilla Townie, killed D7
10. EgorK - Misa Amane, Mafia Goon, killed D6
11. 2.71828..... - Ryuk, Mafia Goob, shot D8

Spectators tagged: Voltaire, ashersky, Archetype, faust, scott_pilgrim, pacovf, Robz888

f.ds Mafia Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for this game.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. Personal communication outside of the forum postings is NOT ALLOWED unless your Role PM specifically allows it.  For example, Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage in their specified QT.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Deadlines and Player Death:

1. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics, except for twilight.  This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
2. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
3. Days will be 10 days long.



Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Colored text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 48 hours of no activity or upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

Helpful Links:

--Main Wiki Page

--Newbie Guide

--Frequently Asked Questions

--Commonly Used Abbreviations

--Mafia Theory

[AndrewisFTTW]

Game Setup

This game will be open, using the Popcorn Mafia Setup {http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Popcorn_Mafia). 

There will be a total of eleven players, consisting of:
- 7 townies
- 4 mafia

Before the game starts, mafia must elect a townie to be the gunbearer. That player has until deadline runs out to shoot another player. If the gunbearer hits scum, they keep the gun. If the gunbearer hits town, the gunbearer dies and the targeted townie becomes the new gunbearer.

If the gunbearer does not shoot by deadline, they die and the mafia pick a new gunbearer.

The gunbearer is always announced and confirmed as innocent.

For this game the gunbearer will be referred to as the Notebearer.

This game is nightless.

Town will be known as Police-Aligned and mafia will be known as Kira-Aligned.

[Eevee]

🌽🌽🌽 (in)

[Hydrad]

/in

[Witherweaver]

/in !

[Teproc]

Sounds interesting.

Really interesting actually.

/in

[Voltaire]

/tag

[silverspawn]

it sounds... different. definitely /in

[XerxesPraelor]

/in

[sudgy]

Ah, /in.

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[mail-mi]

Hahaha I'm already /in

[ashersky]

/tag

[Archetype]

/tag. I can sub, if needed.

[AndrewisFTTW]

We only need two more!

[Axxle2]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

[Eevee]

The glorious return of Axxle2!

[Ichimaru Gin]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

This being a game, flavor will not be 100% accurate to the show. However, it is based upon the multiple instances in the series when one or more Death Notes were out of Light's direct control, such as the Yotsuba Group and Jack Neylon (and the police).

[EgorK]

/in

[faust]

Not sure why there are so many bolded rules for Night deadlines in a nightless game

Oh, and /tag

[mail-mi]

/out

[2.71828.....]

/in

[scott_pilgrim]

/tag

[2.71828.....]

Ok, time for this to start since M50 just ended.  Plus, I haven't played in a while, and this setup looks super interesting

[A Drowned Kernel]

So someone else join already!

[faust]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

Was this serious? If so, then this game is full I guess...

[AndrewisFTTW]

Shouldn't the Kira aligned players be using the deathnote?

/in

Was this serious? If so, then this game is full I guess...

You're right, sorry about that! I'll send out PMs shortly and the game will start 24 hours after everyone has confirmed.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Do you want the speccy faust?

[Teproc]

[AndrewisFTTW]

SHADDAP!

All PMs are out, please confirm by 2:15pm FT tomorrow (10/9).

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

Do you want the speccy faust?

Yes. (I'm so evil, I'm breaking the thread lock!)

[pacovf]

Me too, because I am getting used to it after James Bond

speccy please!

[ashersky]

Also speccy, please.

[AndrewisFTTW]

My mistake, there is no lynching in this game so there will not be vote counts.

PM me for speccy.

THREAD LOCKED!

[Robz888]

/tag.

Speccy plz

[AndrewisFTTW]

Light Yagami opened the door to his apartment and closed it carefully behind him. He took a seat on the couch and opened up the laptop computer sitting on the coffee table. Ryuk lay sprawled across from him eating a red apple. The blinds on the windows lay partially open to the shadowy city skyline of the Kantou Region outside.
 
It was a calm night, peaceful even, in contrast to the decision Light was about to make. He was under too much scrutiny, making it difficult to carry out his divine undertaking. He never slipped when working with the task force in their continued search for Kira. But now, in the moments of near solitude he enjoyed with only Ryuk as his companion, he knew what he had to do.

He heard the front door open and close—that meant Misa had come home. She entered the room and put her hands on his shoulders, massaging them softly.
 
“Why couldn’t you come to my rehearsal again Light?"

He turned to face her and in his usual measured tones promised her that he would be able to make it the next time. She left the room to go change into some more comfortable clothes, while Light remained seated on the couch.
 
You knew this day would come, he thought to himself as he worked out the final details in his head; it took less than a few seconds. For the time being at least, he would have to pass on the Death Note to someone else. Contact with them would of course be limited and dangerous in his present position.
 
But Light had finally settled on who he considered to be the perfect individual to take on the mantle of the new Kira. He only hoped that things wouldn’t spiral out of control; he could no longer rely on Misa as an accomplice to his mission. Her safety was of some importance to him, and she was better off without those memories for the time being.

Elsewhere, Teru Mikami entered the gym, seated himself at one of the pec fly machines, and began to perform the same exercises he had every day for the past five years.

A Drowned Kernal is the Notebearer.

Day 1 ends at 2:00pm FT on October 19th.

[Hydrad]

woo i'm excited

[Hydrad]

also even though there are no lynches I think we could still use a voting system to see who we suspect?

[Witherweaver]

Sweet let's shoot some people.


So there's no Night phase.. setup doesn't say anything about the scum team getting day chat.  Anyone play this format before?

[silverspawn]

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, Mafiascum has a sample PM that gives a QT link, so I'm guessing scum has chat available through the entire thing.

[Witherweaver]

Obligatory Vote: Silverspawn[/b[

[Witherweaver]

Make that Vote: Silverspawn.  Shirking off suspicion before you're suspected, and all that.

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

[silverspawn]

yea uhu. maybe i'm just that good and hydrad is scum

make that vote: Hydrad

[silverspawn]

but man I really expected to be the IC. this is disappointing.

[silverspawn]

oh I forgot we can't even vote. So there is no need to bold them

[Witherweaver]

Eh, we should keep vote counts, so following format would be good.

[AndrewisFTTW]

We can keep vote counts if you want.

[Witherweaver]

I am the want.

[silverspawn]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

[Hydrad]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

[Hydrad]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

edit: Purposely not follow the majority and hit scum instead.

[Witherweaver]

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game. 

[silverspawn]

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game. 

I think this is pretty important and should be discussed more before we just decide it.

and what do you think about why scum didn't make me the IC? Am I that good at the game? huh? huh?

[Hydrad]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

[silverspawn]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.0

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Hydrad (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (9): Eevee, Hydrad, Teproc, XerxesPraelor, sudgy, A Drowned Kernal, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828.....

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[silverspawn]

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

I didn't say what I wanted to.. I meant to say, maybe they think he's easy to detect as scum.

[Witherweaver]

So some reference.. was looking at a Mafiascum game of this format, and here is the Mafia QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BrLTFPmPnNA

(It was linked in the thread.)

The main factor of determining who to give the gun to was mislynchability, and the accuracy of their reads was secondary probably.  I'm guessing whether or not they felt someone would get mislynched (in a regular game) was a main thing here.

Hydrad has a history of getting mislynched or being found scummy in every game he's been in.  New players are, in general I think, more susceptible to getting mislynched.

[Hydrad]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

[A Drowned Kernel]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

[silverspawn]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

I'm not :c

[Hydrad]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

If I was scum I don't even know how I would go around picking people. I would probably just select someone randomly as after the first myslynch there isn't much control over it.

Maybe they picked you because they felt you would go along with the majority and that they could influence the majority? 4 scum is going to have a huge influence on votes.

[Teproc]

vote : WW

[Witherweaver]

vote : WW

Wrong!

[Teproc]

vote : WW

Wrong!

Seems about right.

P.S. : To anyone wondering, I don't do RVS so this is a serious vote.

[Teproc]

Also I agree with treating the gun (or the death note in this case) as a lynch, as boring as that is.

[Witherweaver]

I'm not so concerned with getting shot, though.  Because then I get a gun.  And then I can shoot bitches.

[Witherweaver]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

[Teproc]

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

[Witherweaver]

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

?

[Teproc]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

[sudgy]

Vote: silverspawn

I agree that his first post seems like it's pushing aside suspicion when there isn't any, and it could be planned in a QT.  I usually do RVS but I actually found a legitimate reason to vote someone right away.

[Witherweaver]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

No, trying to make you think that so that you will shoot me, so that I get the gun.

[Witherweaver]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

[Teproc]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

[sudgy]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

[Teproc]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

[sudgy]

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

Not much weird.

[XerxesPraelor]

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

This is useful information, but looks like the mindset scum would be in.

vote: ww especially since votes don't matter here as much.

[XerxesPraelor]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

[Witherweaver]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

Are you saying they're both town?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.1

silverspawn (2): Witherweaver, sudgy
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (2): Teproc, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (6): Eevee, Hydrad, A Drowned Kernal, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828.....

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[XerxesPraelor]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

[Hydrad]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

[Teproc]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

[sudgy]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Not really.  I haven't been playing much recently so I don't really know half of the people here well enough to make a good guess.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

I was commented on who I  would pick for the gun bearer if I were scum.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

Muwahahahaha. 

[Hydrad]

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Another important note: I will not be around for the "official" deadline. The latest I can be sure to be online is 10 am forum time on the 19th, so I'm going to treat that as my deadline for shooting. If there's no majority lynch before then, then as I said before, I'll shoot whoever has the largest wagon.

[Teproc]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

I wouldn't read too much into it. You're pretty good at making yourself obvtown, might as well make you the IC, is probably the thought process here.

[Teproc]

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

[Witherweaver]

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

That could be a reason for choosing ADK if they think he has good reads.  It's a more risky strategy.. a player may have good reads, but they're still more likely to hit Town early than scum, so it gives them a greater chance of getting rid of that player.

Maybe, give the first gun to the first player you'd want to night kill.

I might give it to someone I thought was a strong town player.

[Witherweaver]

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

Well I think you'll find that it's wrong, assuming that you're town. 

[2.71828.....]

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable. 

[sudgy]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

[Teproc]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

[2.71828.....]

I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

No better option maybe?  I honestly don't know.  I mean, there are some people I wouldn't pick.  I probably wouldn't pick a lurker because they are usually suspected already.  I wouldn't pick WW because he is always scum.  I wouldn't pick silverspawn because of his playstyle (from what I have seen).  I would try to pick someone who is generally active and gives off a towny vibe and probably wouldn't be a target for the first shot.  I think you fit in that category.

[2.71828.....]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

[Teproc]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

[2.71828.....]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

I mean, yeah, I have a 40% chance that my initial vote will be on scum.  I just don't feel that 40% about anyone yet.

[Teproc]

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

[2.71828.....]

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

ADK being IC.  So yeah, that improves my odds even more.

[Axxle2]

A Drowned Kernal is the Notebearer.

[Axxle2]

woo i'm excited

Too excited??

also even though there are no lynches I think we could still use a voting system to see who we suspect?

Yeah that *could* work... or the death note user can just listen to me.

Sweet let's shoot some people.


So there's no Night phase.. setup doesn't say anything about the scum team getting day chat.  Anyone play this format before?

I think it'd be a pretty silly game if scum didn't get day chat. I haven't played this particular setup, no, but have played a close variant with a Kingmaker. It was on an IRC chat that I was unfamiliar with so I got super frustrated and basically rage quit that type of format since the guys were dicks. (even more so than on mafiascum :O)

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

We actually talked about you some on the google hangout. People actually think very highly of town you, so I think that's probably why they didn't give you the book to start. I think Hydrad might get miskilled at some point, based on the one game I've played with him. Then again your post reads kind of cringey so I can see it coming from scum.

Okay, Mafiascum has a sample PM that gives a QT link, so I'm guessing scum has chat available through the entire thing.

I've already gone over this, of course they have day chat!

Obligatory Vote: Silverspawn[/b[

Gooooood. Vote: Silverspawn

Make that Vote: Silverspawn.  Shirking off suspicion before you're suspected, and all that.

wait, mafia chose the notebearer. so why choose ADK? I expected either me or hydrad, cause, yknow, the newest players are probably worse at the game, and not as likely to hit the right person. It's pretty unlikely that mafia thought ADK was the worst player. This is weird.

Maybe it's to make Hydrad & me look suspicious? that's the only reason I can come up with.

You already voted!

yea uhu. maybe i'm just that good and hydrad is scum

make that vote: Hydrad

Sweet, a vote!

but man I really expected to be the IC. this is disappointing.

Start taunting ADK to shoot you, then you'll get your IC status.

oh I forgot we can't even vote. So there is no need to bold them

Bolding is still nice for players so they can easily skim at points.

Eh, we should keep vote counts, so following format would be good.

I JUST SAID THAT! THAT'S TWICE NOW! STOP COPYING ME!

We can keep vote counts if you want.

I am the want.

I am the want.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

Remember, besides the gatekeeper, there are 6 town and 4 mafia, that's a proportion that's a lot more mafia sided than your normal mafia game. The keymaster should keep that in mind.

End Page 2.

[Axxle2]

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

Very, very true.

So, I think the first question we should ask/answer is: if the gun bearer couldn't decide himself, but was obligated to act according to the majority, would the game be easier or harder for town?

if it would be easier, the logical consequence is, the gunbearer always does what the majority is saying. So we treat this just as a normal game, except there are no night kills.

but now you have the chance to be the hero. purposely not kill someone and hit scum instead! or have everyone dissapointed in you.

edit: Purposely not follow the majority and hit scum instead.

I really doubt that was an edit.

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game.

Yeah we did, and yes we should.

We were talking about this.. uh.. I guess it was over the chat thing on Sunday. 

We want to keep a vote count for accountability.  So that we can analyze wagons, voting patterns, etc. as in a normal Mafia game. 

I think this is pretty important and should be discussed more before we just decide it.

and what do you think about why scum didn't make me the IC? Am I that good at the game? huh? huh?

I mean we can vote without consequence, right? I don't see a point in not voting. The question is whether we should force ADK to follow the votes though, so that might we worth discussing.

And yeah, I already said you're good at the game, weren't you listening??

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

So say we all.

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

It is known.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

Eh, Axxle already voiced his opinion on the matter and I tend to agree, WIFOM doesn't happen all too much. Maybe you would have done it if ADK had been on the call too since it's such in recent memory, but I don't think you would have given him the note in this situation. but since you have 3 partners maybe they felt fine and you were overruled. I tend toward you-town though.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

He probably just misspoke.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read

I think that's an argument for the opposite case. If he's hard to read, it's bad to make him the IC, because that means he can't be misread as scum. Best give the IC to the guy who, if he's town, looks towny to most players.

I didn't say what I wanted to.. I meant to say, maybe they think he's easy to detect as scum.

Err, that's not what I thought you meant, but sure. I assume you mean that since he's easy to detect as scum he'd be easy to detect as town too?

So some reference.. was looking at a Mafiascum game of this format, and here is the Mafia QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/BrLTFPmPnNA

(It was linked in the thread.)

The main factor of determining who to give the gun to was mislynchability, and the accuracy of their reads was secondary probably.  I'm guessing whether or not they felt someone would get mislynched (in a regular game) was a main thing here.

Hydrad has a history of getting mislynched or being found scummy in every game he's been in.  New players are, in general I think, more susceptible to getting mislynched.

Yeah, I already mentioned the reason Hydrad probably didn't get the note to start.  I'll read the QT later, but I'll trust you read it right and conveyed it to us. (OH, Klick was in that game! He's a cool guy)

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

Because you don't want to be shot, huh? Huh???

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So Boring!

Making sure you realize there are 4 scum and 6 other town?

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

I'm really glad you don't have the notebook right now

I'm not :c

Why, because you want to shoot him??? Huh???

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

If I was scum I don't even know how I would go around picking people. I would probably just select someone randomly as after the first myslynch there isn't much control over it.

Maybe they picked you because they felt you would go along with the majority and that they could influence the majority? 4 scum is going to have a huge influence on votes.

Yeah, and it looked like they picked right with ADK!

vote : WW

Wrong!

vote : WW

Wrong!

...

vote : WW

Wrong!

Seems about right.

P.S. : To anyone wondering, I don't do RVS so this is a serious vote.

Cool.

Also I agree with treating the gun (or the death note in this case) as a lynch, as boring as that is.

Did you know Quasimodo was called Bo in the first draft of Hunchback? Audiences found it too Bo ring.

I'm not so concerned with getting shot, though.  Because then I get a gun.  And then I can shoot bitches.

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

See above.

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

?

*checks that EFHW isn't playing this game, breathes a sigh of relief*

?

!

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

Us? Who the heck is us?
eh.
Vote: teproc

Vote: silverspawn

I agree that his first post seems like it's pushing aside suspicion when there isn't any, and it could be planned in a QT.  I usually do RVS but I actually found a legitimate reason to vote someone right away.

Yeah, he's a fine vote.

Page 3... complete!

[Axxle2]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

No, trying to make you think that so that you will shoot me, so that I get the gun.

Obviously.

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

Yes, I've told him several times.

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

I haven't and am looking forward to it!

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

Well that won't happen this game!

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

I told you, I haven't played with him before!

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

Not much weird.

*Not much: weird.
FTFY

So I'm an IC! That's new.

I gave this some thought beforehand, and I'm going to treat the kill like a normal lynch. That makes sure people are accountable, and lord knows my reads are rarely too accurate. So I will shoot someone as soon as they reach majority, and if deadline comes up I'll shoot the player with the largest wagon, and if there's a tie the wagon that reached it's point first.

Some people have commented on it already, but I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

So I'm sure you thought about this, but there are four scum and six (non-you) town.  And scum has no night kill or abilities, so all they can really do is try to influence the kills through votes.  I might be extra suspicious of a wagon pushes.

This is useful information, but looks like the mindset scum would be in.

vote: ww especially since votes don't matter here as much.

How is this scum mindset? Assertions != truth

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

Nah. Then again nothing reminds me of last game since I wasn't in it. Also this is another post that feels a bit scummy, the age old "look at this thing is it scummy or not?"

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

Are you saying they're both town?

Loool.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

I think that's something WW wouldn't lie about. I mean maybe he's throwing it out of proportion, but that's because he's on the receiving end of the bad read so he's a bit more sensitive when it happens. It's solidifying my townread on him.

Re the ppe: Zzz... How does that do anything but up your postcount? Is there a point to pointing it out?

3 strikes, you're out.
Vote: XP

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

Or good reads, Whatever.

Actually you might want to give the gun to someone that can peg you in the late game since it's likely they're going to die day 1 and not be able to peg you later.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

The point WW was trying to make is that he wouldn't give ADK the gun, he can't give ADK the gun if he's town.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

Yeah. Yes except in the case that I mentioned where he wanted to eliminate ADK early, which isn't that WIFOM at all, or if it is it only has to last him a day or so. Eh, it's all pursuading me. maybe. maybe i need another drnk

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Not asking me???

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Not really.  I haven't been playing much recently so I don't really know half of the people here well enough to make a good guess.

And you like half of us half as well as we deserve? :"(

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

I was commented on who I  would pick for the gun bearer if I were scum.

Yes, yes you did.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

I never noticed anything between you and ADK. Is there a specific game you're thinking of?


PPE: I was pointing it out - mainly I just think strong reads this early in the game are very likely to be wrong. They haven't earned any town/scum points through that.

Like.. always when I was scum.. Okay maybe it was really only a few times, but they were all in a row so it felt like he always had me pegged.  Um.. Greater Idea, Homeland, Monster's U..

But only when your scum... so you should be fine if your town right?

His point was that he wouldn't have chosen ADK if he were scum.

Which would clear him, but then WIFOM.

All of which is way too self-aware for town!WW who wouldn't even have posted that, hence my vote.

Muwahahahaha.

I like you. Please don't be scum

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

Hey, I did that once. Twice in fact!

Another important note: I will not be around for the "official" deadline. The latest I can be sure to be online is 10 am forum time on the 19th, so I'm going to treat that as my deadline for shooting. If there's no majority lynch before then, then as I said before, I'll shoot whoever has the largest wagon.

Sounds good! Also boring!

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

I wouldn't read too much into it. You're pretty good at making yourself obvtown, might as well make you the IC, is probably the thought process here.

That's probably it. I'm probably not the deathnote carrier since I have a 100% vig rate and like flaunting it (also glad I'm not the shooter since that rate might go down T_T)

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

Clearly.

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

That could be a reason for choosing ADK if they think he has good reads.  It's a more risky strategy.. a player may have good reads, but they're still more likely to hit Town early than scum, so it gives them a greater chance of getting rid of that player.

Maybe, give the first gun to the first player you'd want to night kill.

I might give it to someone I thought was a strong town player.

That's what I said! Goodness, stop stealing all my ideas, WW! I take it back, I don't like you anymore 

(Also you do know that'd be most likely you in this case, right?)

Muwahahahaha. 

I take it you don't take my case seriously ?

Well I think you'll find that it's wrong, assuming that you're town.

He'd also be wrong if he was scum, just wrong in the right way.

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable.

Zzzzz No vote?

Page for completion. Also Page 4 completion.

[Axxle2]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

You misunderstand, the shooter is the only one who gets killed if the town is wrong, and the town is wrong decently often. They'd give the gun to the person who is the most dangerous later on, ie the person they'd likely nightkill in a regular game.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Cool, I like this.

I would like everyone to answer why they think I might have been picked.

No better option maybe?  I honestly don't know.  I mean, there are some people I wouldn't pick.  I probably wouldn't pick a lurker because they are usually suspected already.  I wouldn't pick WW because he is always scum.  I wouldn't pick silverspawn because of his playstyle (from what I have seen).  I would try to pick someone who is generally active and gives off a towny vibe and probably wouldn't be a target for the first shot.  I think you fit in that category.

Sure.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Which means you keep our reads on you as hazy as possible. There was plenty of content this game.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

But there's an even number of scum!

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

Right. Why ? You're looking at very good odds if you're town you know.

I mean, yeah, I have a 40% chance that my initial vote will be on scum.  I just don't feel that 40% about anyone yet.

Err, I thought e was a math term?

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

^

40% huh ?

So are you forgetting about ADK being an IC or about you being town ?

ADK being IC.  So yeah, that improves my odds even more.

Four out of nine ain't bad~

A Drowned Kernal is the Notebearer.

DAMMIT I AM THE ONE WHO... err wait, that's me. Carry on then.

All caught up!

[Axxle2]

*waits patiently... and doctorly*

[Axxle2]

I'll read the QT later

This is probably a lie, fyi, I like pie, don't dwi.

[silverspawn]

I like you. Please don't be scum

[2.71828.....]

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

[Teproc]

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

[2.71828.....]

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

Did you read his catchup post? 

I have a 100% vig rate and like flaunting it

We could use someone like that as our notebearer.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Or we can just keep him alive and he can tell me who to shoot.

[Witherweaver]

Axxle2 thinks I'm town. You can trust him, he's drunk.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.2

silverspawn (1): sudgy
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor
2.71828..... (2): Teproc, Witherweaver
XerxesPraelor (1): Axxle2
Axxle2 (1): 2.71828.....

Not Voting (4): Eevee, Hydrad, A Drowned Kernal, EgorK

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[silverspawn]

I hope Axxle is town. But we don't need him to be the gunbearer, we can just let him decide whom to shoot anyway. But that's for ADK to decide.

[Teproc]

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

[Teproc]

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

[Witherweaver]

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

Or if I think he'll go on a scum killing spree

Also, I think he'll be extremely hard to read.

[sudgy]

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

[EgorK]

It seems I'll be vla till monday. I hope you won't generate something like agot d1 volume in the meantime

[silverspawn]

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

Well if he's true that he never missed as a vig, it makes sense to let him decide. Other than that, there's not really a reason.

[Hydrad]

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

[XerxesPraelor]

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Have you been one?

[Hydrad]

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Have you been one?

Yes I was a 1 shot vig in james bond mafia and killed robz. so not much experience

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was mostly just joking.

[Axxle2]

I like you. Please don't be scum

Oh gosh, I'm blushing.

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

No and I don't think *you* would want me as a notebearer, maybe town though.

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

Good question, but lack of response to anything I wrote is pretty bad.

vote: Axxle2

either he is scum, or we really want him to be the notebearer

Why ?

Did you read his catchup post? 

I have a 100% vig rate and like flaunting it

We could use someone like that as our notebearer.

Yeah, or just shoot me as a last resort as a godmode like cheat.

Or we can just keep him alive and he can tell me who to shoot.

Axxle2 likey.

Axxle2 thinks I'm town. You can trust him, he's drunk.

howeduno??//?>?

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Yeah, I've been thinking that e was worth the vote, and I think the wagon has started taking steam
vote: e

I hope Axxle is town. But we don't need him to be the gunbearer, we can just let him decide whom to shoot anyway. But that's for ADK to decide.

Good plan is good.

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

It's a town thing, you wouldn't understand.

[Axxle2]

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

e's plan of shooting me is win win. Either I'm scum and town gets closer to winning, or I'm town and town autowins since I'll kill all the scum afterwards.

Like, WW, what "plan are you referring to exactly ? The only good reason to shoot Axxle is if you think is scum...

Or if I think he'll go on a scum killing spree

Also, I think he'll be extremely hard to read.

I'm not that hard to read unless I post in font size 1 or something.

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

The more votes I see on me the more I think it's a meh idea. I mean it's probably because I'm conditioned that being voted for is a bad thing but eh.

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

Didn't teproc say that?

It seems I'll be vla till monday. I hope you won't generate something like agot d1 volume in the meantime

Wait, you're in this game???

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

Well if he's true that he never missed as a vig, it makes sense to let him decide. Other than that, there's not really a reason.

Yeah, I think people are taking a joke a bit too far and a bit too seriously.

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Well I got it first, so there!

I have a 100% rate with hitting town as a vig. So I'm pretty confident in my abilities.

Have you been one?

Yes I was a 1 shot vig in james bond mafia and killed robz. so not much experience

I think I have 5 forum shots and 2 IRL shots correct.

I was mostly just joking.

[Axxle2]

I just realized that the terrible thing about this setup is that we can't just shoot lurkers for the hell of it, since if we shoot wrong they get the book. Wheeeeee...

[silverspawn]

so, in all seriousness, do you think you should be the one deciding whom to shoot?

of course, objectively speaking, there is a big chance that you're scum, so doing something like that would be even more dangerous than treating this as a normal game with 4 scum to manipulate wagons

[Axxle2]

so, in all seriousness, do you think you should be the one deciding whom to shoot?

of course, objectively speaking, there is a big chance that you're scum, so doing something like that would be even more dangerous than treating this as a normal game with 4 scum to manipulate wagons

I think I've been out of the loop in this meta that I probably shouldn't be the absolute authority, as much as I'd think it'd be hilarious if I peg the scumteam this game. I'd appreciate it if my vote would pull a retired professional sports player and took on extra weight!

[Axxle2]

[Axxle2]

NSFW for language.

[Axxle2]

Also spoilers *IGUESS*

[Axxle2]

Oh, and are you Silver Spawn or Silver's Pawn? I've always wondered.

[silverspawn]

silver-spawn. this name goes back way before dominion.

but you're not the first one who gets this idea.

[silverspawn]

also, lowercase. very important 

[Axxle2]

silver-spawn. this name goes back way before dominion.

but you're not the first one who gets this idea.

Yeah, I assumed it was a pre-dominion username, most of the usernames here are, I suspect. Just wanted to make sure I was pronouncing it right in my headcanon.

"silverspawn woke up suddenly, and for some reason knew that today was going to be different..."

[silverspawn]

"silverspawn woke up suddenly, and for some reason knew that today was going to be different..."

.... and? you can't just leave a cliffhanger like that 

[Axxle2]

silverspawn woke up suddenly, and for some reason knew that today was going to be different...

Well, if I want to tell this story properly, I probably should start from the beginning.

It was 5 pm on a Sunday. The cool evening breeze was flowing in through the open window. silverspawn immediately shut it. He hated the cold and anything to do with it, he just would not let it go. Jacking up the heater to make his room nice and toasty, he took out his trusty laptop and pulled up his usual websites. After scoffing for a while at some truly terrible threads, he finally felt the caress of sleep inviting him. As he lay down his head, however, he heard a tapping at the window.

"Strange," silverspawn thought. "I'm on the second floor, that shouldn't be possible. It must be the trees." Despite knowing there weren't any trees in the immediate area.

*taptaptap* he heard once more.

"Well, I better check it out. There's probably a bird out there that I need to chase away."

silverspawn open the blinds and saw... a boy. How strange. The sun's last rays disappeared as soon as the blinds were opened, but in that instant, silverspawn could have sworn that the boy was sparkling...

(passing out, tbc)

[silverspawn]

well, i try to be economical, and don't heat much. but the story is pretty fascinating.

[silverspawn]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

[Teproc]

I actuall agree with that. I think e and Axxle are scummy, WW a little too.

WHo else is in this game ? Egork and... sudgy right ? Still missing someone I think.

[Teproc]

Eevee is in this game ?

XP and Hydrad too, I remember them, they're kinda townie.

[silverspawn]

vote: Eeevee for lurking?

[2.71828.....]

Sure, I have 3 votes for me to be the next notebearer, so I might as well respond to them.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Comparing this game to a blitz game?  I guess that is the only scum performance you have to go back to (except village mafia, but I don't really count that) so I guess that is fair, but really?  I mean, yeah, I was being open-ended and that makes it harder to get reads on a person later in the game, but it was still the first day.  I try to keep my options open but then when I think I have found scum I will go for it.  Like when I went after Archetype in Toy Story.  Or Faust in Dynasty Warriors.  When I think I have found scum you will be sure to know. 

Really, I could do the same thing with your play style.  All you do is throw around votes looking for something to stick.  First you vote WW because he is overly self-aware.  Then you vote for me because my first post is a little wishy-washy without content.  But this time it has actually stuck around a bit and picked up two more votes.  Congrats!  Now your scum partners can slowly fill up the wagon and "lynch" me. 

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Are you saying my vote on Axxle2 was me trying to come up with a townie plan for us?  Because that vote was not entirely serious.  While it does have merit in my opinion (Axxle2 has not had a lot of content so far but has posted a ton, mostly jokes.  Which seems like an easy thing for scum to do to get town cred) I wasn't trying to come up with some master plan.

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Yeah, I've been thinking that e was worth the vote, and I think the wagon has started taking steam
vote: e

This is a classic "third in the wagon" comfortable vote.  Not a very suspicious place to be, but still makes it a real wagon rather than a couple of votes.  Makes me like my vote on Axxle2 more.

PPE:3

[Teproc]

I don't think it's fair to say Axxle doesnt' have a lot of content. It's hard to analyze content, but it still counts, very much so.

I actually think the comparaison to blitz games is very relevant here, because we are facing a pool of VTs with a huge proportion of scum in it. I would say this setup is more similar to a blitz game than it is to a normal game with something like a ++ setup.

[silverspawn]

yea, but you don't take blitz games very seriously, do you?

[2.71828.....]

yea, but you don't take blitz games very seriously, do you?

That probably varies person to person.  I know I did not take it as seriously as a regular game.

[Teproc]

If anything, I actually take blitz games more seriously than norma games. They're very tense !

[silverspawn]

my first game was blitz, and e got lynched in the first few hours for no reason, and then I got lynched even though noone really thought I was scum. It felt very bastardish.

[Teproc]

Was it the usual blitz setup ? The one where there are two ICs and three scum out of 9 people and you have to lynch two scum to win ?

[Teproc]

OK I just checked and it was another setup, so I don't know about that.

The setup I'm talking about which we've used a lot for blitz games has 9 players, a 3-man scum team, 2  ICs and a White Flag mechanic (you only need to lynch two scum to win). Oh and scum has daychat. It's the awesomest and it is similar to this setup in the sense that scum is heavy in numbers and can manipulate lynches, a lot.

[XerxesPraelor]

And I may go crazy and start rapid firing.

Trying to intimidate us into not shooting you ?

PPE : Nevermind

No, trying to make you think that so that you will shoot me, so that I get the gun.

Rereading now

I'm still trying to figure out to what extent this is serious. In any case, it's definitely really self-conscious, which feels out of character for ww.

[XerxesPraelor]

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Probably either because you tend to not catch them or because they know we'll think that and so suspect other people more. I think we should just flow with it - the voting system makes it basically not a problem at all.

[XerxesPraelor]

I kinda like this game mode though. Even if you get "mislynched" you still get to play. Although I feel kinda bad for ADK as he might get kicked out day 1.

This post feels towny to me - scum might not have the same emotional reaction.

[XerxesPraelor]

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable. 

This post looks like it says something but doesn't actually do anything but approve of already consensus things. vote: e

[XerxesPraelor]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

I think teproc makes some good points here, but leading questions are at the very least annoying and at the worst scummy. It's not a big deal though, just something I'll remember.

[XerxesPraelor]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

You don't care about keeping your options open as town. I mean, you can always change your vote.

[XerxesPraelor]

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Scum or town, e was very probably joking. Trying to turn this into a case is scummy. vote: witherweaver

[XerxesPraelor]

I hope Axxle is town. But we don't need him to be the gunbearer, we can just let him decide whom to shoot anyway. But that's for ADK to decide.

Silverspawn has the right idea here. (Unless axxle2 is scum)

[XerxesPraelor]

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

As a lynch, or as a shooter? If you think he has good reads, then just vote for whoever he finds scummy - that way ADK doesn't die for nothing. I could see a case that he's hard to read and so a good target, though. Is that what you mean?

[XerxesPraelor]

I just realized that the terrible thing about this setup is that we can't just shoot lurkers for the hell of it, since if we shoot wrong they get the book. Wheeeeee...

This is a good point, and means that we need to put more non-voting pressure on lurkers to compensate. I'm not sure how to do that, though, without making people who really can't post much get unfairly targeted. Any ideas?

[XerxesPraelor]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

I guess the thing about your username slowed it down. I'm trying now to provoke enough people to get something happening.

[XerxesPraelor]

Sure, I have 3 votes for me to be the next notebearer, so I might as well respond to them.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Comparing this game to a blitz game?  I guess that is the only scum performance you have to go back to (except village mafia, but I don't really count that) so I guess that is fair, but really?  I mean, yeah, I was being open-ended and that makes it harder to get reads on a person later in the game, but it was still the first day.  I try to keep my options open but then when I think I have found scum I will go for it.  Like when I went after Archetype in Toy Story.  Or Faust in Dynasty Warriors.  When I think I have found scum you will be sure to know. 

Really, I could do the same thing with your play style.  All you do is throw around votes looking for something to stick.  First you vote WW because he is overly self-aware.  Then you vote for me because my first post is a little wishy-washy without content.  But this time it has actually stuck around a bit and picked up two more votes.  Congrats!  Now your scum partners can slowly fill up the wagon and "lynch" me. 

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Are you saying my vote on Axxle2 was me trying to come up with a townie plan for us?  Because that vote was not entirely serious.  While it does have merit in my opinion (Axxle2 has not had a lot of content so far but has posted a ton, mostly jokes.  Which seems like an easy thing for scum to do to get town cred) I wasn't trying to come up with some master plan.

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Yeah, I've been thinking that e was worth the vote, and I think the wagon has started taking steam
vote: e

This is a classic "third in the wagon" comfortable vote.  Not a very suspicious place to be, but still makes it a real wagon rather than a couple of votes.  Makes me like my vote on Axxle2 more.

PPE:3

I both think e's reaction to the first bit here is a bit of an overreaction (it's not shown, but the word count of the 'rebuttal' is large compared to how much it actually refutes) but I also think Axxle2's playstyle would be easy to copy, and he hasn't really done anything to deserve town credit. Still, I think vote: e is the best option here.

[XerxesPraelor]

... I tried!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Has Eevee posted anything yet? I know EgorK hasn't posted anything of substance yet, I'd like to give everyone a chance to say stuff before I start spouting my ill-conceived IC opinions.

[XerxesPraelor]

Wait, is Eevee really in this game? I'm pretty sure he hasn't pposted

I saw EgorK say he'll be VLA, but I don't know if Eevee has an excuse. I'd say getting the discussion going again is probably more important than whatever you'd gain by holding back.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote Count 1.3
Eevee (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor
2.71828..... (3): Teproc, Witherweaver, Axxle 2
Axxle2 (2): 2.71828..... , sudgy
Witherweaver (1): XerxesPraelor
Not Voting (4): Eevee, Hydrad, A Drowned Kernal, EgorK

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[XerxesPraelor]

Looks like my vote wasn't obvious enough. (Or maybe I forgot to switch back)

vote: e

[sudgy]

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

As a lynch, or as a shooter? If you think he has good reads, then just vote for whoever he finds scummy - that way ADK doesn't die for nothing. I could see a case that he's hard to read and so a good target, though. Is that what you mean?

Both, I guess?  I'm having a hard time getting into this game for some reason.

[silverspawn]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

[Hydrad]

Vote: e

I feel like e or WW is scum but I don't know why I get that feeling. I'm going with e for now though.

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI that's L-1.

[silverspawn]

FYI that's L-1.

any opinion on this? are you still waiting for others to write stuff before you tell us what you think?

[XerxesPraelor]

I think it's actually L-2.

[Witherweaver]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

[Teproc]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

You know what ? I still think e could be scum, but I'd be stunned if you're not. This is not how you play as town.

vote : WW

[Witherweaver]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

You know what ? I still think e could be scum, but I'd be stunned if you're not. This is not how you play as town.

vote : WW

Sweet, I like this argument.  Vote: WW.

[Teproc]

Great.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: WW

New policy going forward, for as long as I have the gun: anyone who self-votes gets shot on the spot. It's obnoxious and anti-town.

[Witherweaver]

Silverspawn's statement has a lot of convenience in it.  As hypothetical scum, even if e is not his partner, Silver gets some town cred for defense, and saying "there is scum on the wagon" is probably more likely to be true than not.  And if we end up lynching one of Silver's partner on the wagon, then he gets some bus cred there too.

[Witherweaver]

vote: WW

New policy going forward, for as long as I have the gun: anyone who self-votes gets shot on the spot. It's obnoxious and anti-town.

Too bad I don't have a really solid read yet

[Teproc]

I agree that silver saying there's scum on the wagon is obviously a very safe statement, however it seems to be a pretty normal town mindset than to think "wow, in this game with 4 scum, that fast-moving wagon has to be manipulated by scum". I also have that voice in my head at least.

[Witherweaver]

I agree that silver saying there's scum on the wagon is obviously a very safe statement, however it seems to be a pretty normal town mindset than to think "wow, in this game with 4 scum, that fast-moving wagon has to be manipulated by scum". I also have that voice in my head at least.

That's a good point, about the fast moving wagon.  I was more somewhat put off by  the "the case is ridiculous" line.  I mean.. what's ridiculous about the case?  I had a feeling he seemed like scum.. that's not really a case, just a hunch.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote Count 1.4
Eevee (1): silverspawn
Witherweaver (3): Teproc, Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel
2.71828..... (3): Axxle 2, XerxesPraelor, Hydrad
Axxle2 (2): 2.71828..... ,sudgy
Not Voting (2): Eevee, EgorK

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[XerxesPraelor]

Well, considering that ww will probably unvote, I'm going to stay on e until someone gives a town narrative that makes sense. Basically the one thing holding me back from voting ww is that he makes sense.

[XerxesPraelor]

Silverspawn's statement has a lot of convenience in it.  As hypothetical scum, even if e is not his partner, Silver gets some town cred for defense, and saying "there is scum on the wagon" is probably more likely to be true than not.  And if we end up lynching one of Silver's partner on the wagon, then he gets some bus cred there too.

This, for example, is medium-strong evidence against ss.

[A Drowned Kernel]

unvote

I was kind of cranky when I posted that, and it was probably an overreaction. But: I am not going to count self-votes, if WW reaches 6 with a vote on himself, I won't shoot him until someone else votes.

Also, I'm going to give a big ol' reads post(s) tomorrow. Right now I have a headache.

[Eevee]

Yea, I was VLA, just read the entire thread now.

Vote: e

I didn't so much like the original case, but his post of quoting all the votes on him and giving a lengthy response felt way out of proportion, which I feel usually comes from scum. I don't have a strong opinion on WW, self-meta stuff is always labeled as scummy, but I think at least for myself it's actually town tell.

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

[Axxle2]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

Shoot:
XP
e
sudgy
EgorK

Shoot after:
Teproc
Hydrad
Eevee

Don't shoot:
Witherweaver
silverspawn

[Witherweaver]

I like Axxle's plan.

[Axxle2]

Really, I could do the same thing with your play style.  All you do is throw around votes looking for something to stick.  First you vote WW because he is overly self-aware.  Then you vote for me because my first post is a little wishy-washy without content.  But this time it has actually stuck around a bit and picked up two more votes.  Congrats!  Now your scum partners can slowly fill up the wagon and "lynch" me.

Is this a serious case?

[Axxle2]

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

I guess the thing about your username slowed it down. I'm trying now to provoke enough people to get something happening.

It really didn't. I asked, he answered, I made a story. That was like a 4 post detour.

[Axxle2]

I like XP a bit more as town for his catchup posts, fyi. He can switch with Hydrad in the later pile.

[Axxle2]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

White knighting is protecting a townie when you're scum, and yet you're on the e wagon. What exactly are you trying to say here?

[Axxle2]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

This is why I'm voting for him:
1. He didn't vote for anyone in his first post, lack of commitment is scummy.
2. In his first post he mentioned that two players were "self aware" but "cool but not necessarily scummy". I don't even know how that could be "cool" but being super tepid about whether he wants to say they're scum or not indicates scum.
3. He gets somewhat defensive about his first post, and even blasts someone for furthering the game state (voting for someone right out the gate). That's playing more towards the scum win con than the town one.
4. A minor point, but he got the math slightly wrong regarding voting for scum, which probably comes from scum slightly more than town since it shows he hasn't hasn't thought too much about the town motivated vote.
5. He's on the "let's waste a shot to make Axxle2 the shooter" bandwagon, which I find a bit antitown, as hilarious a line we could take.
5a. He votes me saying "either I'm scum or..." without explaining why he thinks I'm scum.
6. He already had 2 votes on him, wagons are protown. (side note: If town worried about how they looked being the Xth person on a wagon we'd never get anyone lynched.)

[Axxle2]

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

Don't confuse Axxle2 with Axxle though. Axxle2 plays like an Olympic racing shoe: fast and loose.

[silverspawn]

The case on e was, pretty much, not really a case. And yet it gained votes with impressive speed. I think that's pretty ridiculous, so I said, "I think that's pretty ridiculous".

I mean look at his first post:

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable.

and here are a bunch of votes for him:

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Vote: e

Gut instinct of someone trying to look like they have a townie plan.

(I actually think the shooting Axxle idea is good, but for some reason I don't trust e saying it.)

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable. 

This post looks like it says something but doesn't actually do anything but approve of already consensus things. vote: e

Looks like my vote wasn't obvious enough. (Or maybe I forgot to switch back)

vote: e

Vote: e

I feel like e or WW is scum but I don't know why I get that feeling. I'm going with e for now though.

Yea, I was VLA, just read the entire thread now.

Vote: e

I didn't so much like the original case, but his post of quoting all the votes on him and giving a lengthy response felt way out of proportion, which I feel usually comes from scum. I don't have a strong opinion on WW, self-meta stuff is always labeled as scummy, but I think at least for myself it's actually town tell.

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

they are just raining out of nowhere. I mean there was some stuff in between, but what? e could totally be scum, but you are building a serious wagon on him based on almost nothing. Especially the way Hydrad jumped on it was super scummy. This isn't RVS anymore, e was at L-2 (?)

vote: Hydrad

you can vote for e. You can even vote for him without presenting a case. But if you do, don't complain when I think the case is bad.

[silverspawn]

and yea, I think there is scum on the wagon. not one, duh, that's a pretty trivial statement. My guess is more 2+. Hydrad. XP? WW? Maybe even Eevee.

[silverspawn]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

[Witherweaver]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

White knighting is protecting a townie when you're scum, and yet you're on the e wagon. What exactly are you trying to say here?

If Silver is scum, e is likely town.

[silverspawn]

if false ... is not a very interesting statement in any case

[Hydrad]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

What do you have against me!

[Teproc]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

What do you have against me!

You got mislynched twice, it's not a silverspawn thing.

@WW : I disagree with your statement there, I think wagon dynamics are very different because there are so many scum players. I could easily see scum!silver raising the "wow, that wagon was fast !" issue to protect his partner.

I do think he's town though (silver).

[A Drowned Kernel]

Here's my reread and off-the-top of my head reactions.

Sweet let's shoot some people.


So there's no Night phase.. setup doesn't say anything about the scum team getting day chat.  Anyone play this format before?

“I don't know something scum would know!” in his first post. I know I bring up Monster's U a lot but dammit I was right about that. It's not a huge deal but I'm going on the record as not exactly buying it.

Silverspawn's early posts seem towny to me. His whole “I'm not the gunbearer?” seems natural.

Maybe you're scum.

Maybe they thought ADK was hard to read.. maybe they think ADK has bad reads, or they don't often get found out by him.

I can tell you I certainly wouldn't have chosen ADK, because he's always the sole guy that suspects me as scum from very early on.  This is exactly the worst format for me as scum and ADK as town.  Or maybe I played some WIFOM with that and convinced my scum team so that I could make this argument.  Of course, if I did that, I wouldn't make this argument, I'd wait until someone else brought it up.

This would be a decent point, except that he was self-conscious enough to bring it up. And I do remember at least one game (Homeland I think) where I didn't suspect WW at all until he made a post saying “ADK hasn't accused me of being scum yet, you ok?”.

vote : WW

I generally get a towny vibe from vote-only posts, especially early in the game. Scum goes out of their way to justify their votes. Though at this point, I think I should point that Teproc might have a very good meta reason to make me the notebearer- in Dune mafia, which just finished, I was town and he was scum and I was completely convinced of his towniness.

I'm not so concerned with getting shot, though.  Because then I get a gun.  And then I can shoot bitches.

“Because I'm totally town!”

Vote: silverspawn

I agree that his first post seems like it's pushing aside suspicion when there isn't any, and it could be planned in a QT.  I usually do RVS but I actually found a legitimate reason to vote someone right away.

This is in the middle of Teproc and WW going back and forth, if WW is scum sudgy might easily be his partner trying to distract.

XP's first posts seem pretty null to me. He votes for WW but it's a point in the game where a wagon obviously isn't going to go through, so it could just as easily come from a scum as from town (regardless of WW's alignment).

Hey guys.  Good to be back in the game. 

ADK is the IC I see.  I am totally fine with him creating whatever deadline works best for him.  silverspawn and WW are extremely self-aware, which is cool but not necessarily scummy (never played with silverspawn, but from what I have watched of his play that seems pretty normal).  Teproc seems like his usual self (as far as I remember).  Keeping track of votes for wagons and helping direct the kill sounds very reasonable.

This is kind of contentless first post from e. I guess they can't all be the best first post ever.

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

This strikes me as a little odd, since it's not necessarily true. The majority thing is up to the gunbearer and while it's what I'm doing, I think there are players who would shoot whoever the hell they wanted.

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

Yes, I kept my options open with my first post of the game, rather than immediately voting for someone like you did.

I agree with Teproc that e is reminding of the blitz game with him. It's the nervousness thing, in that game he made all sorts of “oh in my scum QT” jokes. Then again I think that's the one of the only times I've played with him, so maybe I'm biased. Also the quoted post is indeed pretty ridiculous, scum's way more worried about “keeping their options open” in the early game than town.

Axxle2's big catch-up posts... kind of remind of a similar thing that scum!ash did at beginning of Super Mario, which is put out a lot content without actually saying very much or taking much of a stance. And the whole “I'm too relaxed and jokey to be a nervous scumbag” thing is something I might buy from a newer player, but he's experienced enough to fake it.

Then everyone wants to shoot him. I'd rather shoot some of those people first than try and figure out Axxle2, really.

It seems I'll be vla till monday. I hope you won't generate something like agot d1 volume in the meantime

We need more from you. We have some time, though.

Off-topic: please, please, please continue this.

Sure, I have 3 votes for me to be the next notebearer, so I might as well respond to them.

[snipped]

e's uncomfortable with votes on him. Which, sure, town is too. Defending yourself isn't scummy. But the whole post is a bit defensive, a bit nervous. And starting it off with that “I'm going to be the next notebearer if I get shot, because I'm town, for reals you guys” comment, I dunno.

XP's series of posts reads towny to me. Especially from he, he's usually quieter, but I think that he tends to be quieter as scum than as town.

Vote: e

I feel like e or WW is scum but I don't know why I get that feeling. I'm going with e for now though.

Hydrad... okay, Hydrad seems scummy to me, like, 100% of the time. In that game I modded I had to keep reminding myself that he wasn't actually scum. I'm getting a better feel for his meta I guess, I mean he seems like his normal self. I don't know.

Silverspawn's statement has a lot of convenience in it.  As hypothetical scum, even if e is not his partner, Silver gets some town cred for defense, and saying "there is scum on the wagon" is probably more likely to be true than not.  And if we end up lynching one of Silver's partner on the wagon, then he gets some bus cred there too.

Okay, there's some truth to this. And I do think what WW is describing is how newer scum players tend to play; in my first scum game I went out of my way to defend a player I new would flip town (I know I reference other games a lot, it's just how I approach this game, I'm the IC so y'all can just deal with it for now)

I agree that silver saying there's scum on the wagon is obviously a very safe statement, however it seems to be a pretty normal town mindset than to think "wow, in this game with 4 scum, that fast-moving wagon has to be manipulated by scum". I also have that voice in my head at least.

The thing is, I think that scum is going to be very self-conscious about wagon manipulation. With four players, you could easily be too blatant. Having more partners isn't entirely a good thing, as there's more people you have to avoid interacting with in an incriminating way.

I like Eevee's first post, actually. I think scum would make more of an effort to comment on every little thing.

In conclusion:

I would be comfortable shooting WW or e. They're both scummy enough, and they're both people that I think are acceptable as the next notebearer if they are town.

One last thing, that I'm going to try- I think that a sometimes you can catch scum by looking at who's not talking to each other (in that, scum teams are going to avoid directly interacting with each other, whether intentionally or subconsciously). So for what it's worth, and as far as I can tell, here's who's not talking to/about who:

Hydrad (post count 14): teproc, eevee, egork, sudgy
Eevee (3): can't really analyze, as he's only made one post in-game (fix this!)
WW (33): Eevee, sudgy, EgorK
Teproc (28): mentions everyone at least once, but outside of his reads list (which leaves out silverspawn btw): Eevee, XP, EgorK
silverspawn (28): sudgy, EgorK, Teproc (I think SS quotes a Teproc posts but never directly comments on him or responds directly to one of his posts)
XP (24): sudgy
sudgy (: EgorK, e, Eevee, Hydrad, WW
Axxle2 (25): Eevee. But he comments on everything, so.
EgorK (2): Everyone. Post more.
e (11): Eevee, Hydrad, XP, sudgy, EgorK

So no one's talking much about or to Eevee because they're not here. Outside of that, I guess it's not very useful until more people flip. I also think that I have to be more sophisticated in how I analyze this, because there are some people who talk to each other in a conversational way, but never comment on each other's alignments. But that's what I saw looking over things.

[A Drowned Kernel]

sudgy's post count is eight, not a smiley face.

[Witherweaver]

WW (33): Eevee, sudgy, EgorK

"Who's not talking about whom" is an interesting point that I've never considered.  It seems the only people I'm not talking about are the people that haven't really posted anything. 

Also, I'm back to

Vote: e

[Eevee]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

This strikes me as a little odd, since it's not necessarily true. The majority thing is up to the gunbearer and while it's what I'm doing, I think there are players who would shoot whoever the hell they wanted.

When we discussed this setup during the sunday mafia chat, I think most of us agreed we'd take input from the town but ultimately make the decision ourselves.

[Eevee]

WW (33): Eevee, sudgy, EgorK

"Who's not talking about whom" is an interesting point that I've never considered.  It seems the only people I'm not talking about are the people that haven't really posted anything. 

Also, I'm back to

Vote: e

Self-preservation or a real read?

I prefer e to WW/the field really. His overreaction to the wagon is the scummiest thing to me this far.

As I said, Axxle also seems to be trying too hard for my likening, but I've always found him one of the hardest guys to read, so who knows.

ADK is really towny but gee, that's not exactly helpful.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

This strikes me as a little odd, since it's not necessarily true. The majority thing is up to the gunbearer and while it's what I'm doing, I think there are players who would shoot whoever the hell they wanted.

When we discussed this setup during the sunday mafia chat, I think most of us agreed we'd take input from the town but ultimately make the decision ourselves.

Sure, but not every player was there. I wasn't. And I'm not ultimately making the decision myself- I'm counting my own vote as equal to anyone else's, but I'm explicitly stating if the majority overrules me, I'll go along, which is certainly not something that every player would do.

[Teproc]

How many votes is that on e, and when is the ADK deadline ?

[EgorK]

Interesting read so far, especcially Axlle. Actually if he is really good at vig then vote: Axxle2 as he seems to be hard to read so can be scum as well

[2.71828.....]

How many votes is that on e, and when is the ADK deadline ?

5 votes on me, and ADK's deadline is still the 19th, just in the morning.  So there is lots of time still.  As far as I can tell the case on me is that I have come across as 1) hedgy and 2) nervous under pressure. 

I really don't have much to say about the hedgy part, because it is true.  I haven't come out really strong against anyone so far.  And while this may come across as a scummy attempt to ensure that I am "on the good side" of whatever lynch/shot that happens and to go with the flow of town, it is really just me feeling the water until I find something to go with.  Which may or may not be the general consensus of town.  Call me scummy for it, but this is just the way I tend to work.  In DW2, I didn't come out with a real vote until several days into D1.  By then I had a good feel for people and had enough to convince my (mistakenly) that faust was scum. 

As far as being nervous under pressure goes, one of the biggest reasons I responded to the wagon that was on me was just to get discussion moving again.  I wasn't nervous about getting lynched at L-3, I just wanted to put some thoughts out there about what I thought of the votes on me to draw out more reactions.  Those reactions just unfortunately turned out to be that more people thought I was scummy.

[2.71828.....]

Sure, but not every player was there. I wasn't. And I'm not ultimately making the decision myself- I'm counting my own vote as equal to anyone else's, but I'm explicitly stating if the majority overrules me, I'll go along, which is certainly not something that every player would do.

I am really not a fan of this.  I think that the notebearer should listen and put a lot of weight into what the town majority thinks, but should make the ultimate decision himself.

[2.71828.....]

Also, point by point cases are awesome because they are easier to respond to (my responses in bold):

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

This is why I'm voting for him:
1. He didn't vote for anyone in his first post, lack of commitment is scummy.  Got it.  Thanks.  I will put that in my diary under "mafia 101".
2. In his first post he mentioned that two players were "self aware" but "cool but not necessarily scummy". I don't even know how that could be "cool" but being super tepid about whether he wants to say they're scum or not indicates scum.  By "cool" I meant "I will remember this for later but I don't think they are scum yet"
3. He gets somewhat defensive about his first post, and even blasts someone for furthering the game state (voting for someone right out the gate). That's playing more towards the scum win con than the town one.  When I "blasted" Teproc for voting right out of the gate, that was basically just an opposite example of my hedgy first post.  I was attempting to point out that the case on me had a lot more to do about posting style than anything else. 
4. A minor point, but he got the math slightly wrong regarding voting for scum, which probably comes from scum slightly more than town since it shows he hasn't hasn't thought too much about the town motivated vote.  Ok.  Sure.
5. He's on the "let's waste a shot to make Axxle2 the shooter" bandwagon, which I find a bit antitown, as hilarious a line we could take.  OMGUS
5a. He votes me saying "either I'm scum or..." without explaining why he thinks I'm scum.  I wasn't insinuating that you were scum, and therefore did not feel obliged to present a case.  I was merely making a factual statement.
6. He already had 2 votes on him, wagons are protown. (side note: If town worried about how they looked being the Xth person on a wagon we'd never get anyone lynched.)  Good point

[Eevee]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

[2.71828.....]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

1) you already were voting me

2) I am at "shoot-1" so I think I should defend myself just a little

3) No one else has posted anything about anything for almost 24 hours except what you just posted

So  my question at this point is whether you were almost just a careless hammer, or manipulative scum trying to seem innocent about a hammer.  I think the latter. 

vote: Eevee

[Teproc]

We should not be lynching e. Nothing has been happening in the past few days, and I doubt scm would just let their partner go down that easily.

Eevee maybe, but I'm much more convinced about WW.

[XerxesPraelor]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

[Eevee]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

[Witherweaver]

We should not be lynching e. Nothing has been happening in the past few days, and I doubt scm would just let their partner go down that easily.

Eevee maybe, but I'm much more convinced about WW.

Convinced about how awesomely town I am?

[XerxesPraelor]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

But town should be defending themselves, and it's an argument you literally cannot argue against.

[Teproc]

Yeah it's not a scumtell at all. Well it might be for some people but it's generally way overblown an argument (see : Hydrad in Legend of Zelda)

[Witherweaver]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

Wait, who was the L-1 thing about?  e?

[XerxesPraelor]

Yes. I think he was at L-1.

[Eevee]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

But town should be defending themselves, and it's an argument you literally cannot argue against.

Problem isn't defending. It's overreacting to suspicion.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah, I'm less and less convinced about e.

[Hydrad]

Honestly its just a thought and a pretty lame one. But this game has a higher then 50% winrate if town just randomly shoots someone every time.

It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff as mafia can influence it so much.

[Teproc]

Honestly its just a thought and a pretty lame one. But this game has a higher then 50% winrate if town just randomly shoots someone every time.

It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff as mafia can influence it so much.

You're right, that is lame.

[XerxesPraelor]

But it's basically sure that we can get a better win rate if we actually look for scum. The %50 is just a minimum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Er, so I just looked at the wiki entry, and what's scum's actual win condition for this setup? Town can't technically be endgamed, since there's no lynch; if it ever got to one town, he could just shoot all the scum. So I assume scum wins when they outnumber town but it would be nice to know what it is precisely.

[Witherweaver]

Er, so I just looked at the wiki entry, and what's scum's actual win condition for this setup? Town can't technically be endgamed, since there's no lynch; if it ever got to one town, he could just shoot all the scum. So I assume scum wins when they outnumber town but it would be nice to know what it is precisely.

They have to get a majority, including equality. 

[Witherweaver]

It's included in the sample games that are linked on the wiki.  At least the one I looked at.

[Hydrad]

Er, so I just looked at the wiki entry, and what's scum's actual win condition for this setup? Town can't technically be endgamed, since there's no lynch; if it ever got to one town, he could just shoot all the scum. So I assume scum wins when they outnumber town but it would be nice to know what it is precisely.

I believe its when they tie or out number town. Then I'm just going to imagine they all jump the notebook bearer and the town people can't stop them from stealing the book back since they no longer outnumber scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah that's what it looks like. And the fact that scum wins at equality is important.

[Witherweaver]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

1) you already were voting me

2) I am at "shoot-1" so I think I should defend myself just a little

3) No one else has posted anything about anything for almost 24 hours except what you just posted

So  my question at this point is whether you were almost just a careless hammer, or manipulative scum trying to seem innocent about a hammer.  I think the latter. 

vote: Eevee

I actually think this is a kind of good point.  It's sort of accepted meta that town is much less careful than scum is, so scum can try to appear less careful.  Eevee's post looks a bit like the latter, especially considering he was already voting for e, and if he weren't, then it would have been a hammer. 

[Witherweaver]

So it's 7-4 now; we only have two missed shots before "MyLo". 

[Hydrad]

So it's 7-4 now; we only have two missed shots before "MyLo".

but every time we hit scum we get a extra shot to miss before we lose again.

[Witherweaver]

So it's 7-4 now; we only have two missed shots before "MyLo".

but every time we hit scum we get a extra shot to miss before we lose again.

Basically, yeah.  But we need to hit one in the first three.

[XerxesPraelor]

That shouldn't be hard. Unlike normal games, the shooter has about a 1/3 - 1/2 chance, which is pretty high.

[sudgy]

I think overdefending is a valid scumtell.  I haven't seen e do it too much, I'll have to re-look at things.

Sorry I haven't been able to get into the game as much.  Maybe I should do a reads post soon or something.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Defending yourself strongly is scummy when you only have a few votes on you, but once there's a substantial wagon town's going to defend themselves as much as scum.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Vote Count 1.5
Eevee (2): XerxesPraelor, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (1): Teproc
2.71828..... (4): Axxle 2, Hydrad, Witherweaver, Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[Axxle2]

Though, Hydrad looks scummy in almost every game.

What do you have against me!

You got mislynched twice, it's not a silverspawn thing.

@WW : I disagree with your statement there, I think wagon dynamics are very different because there are so many scum players. I could easily see scum!silver raising the "wow, that wagon was fast !" issue to protect his partner.

I do think he's town though (silver).

In the last game I was mafia, town did this for scum. It's a gut reaction ppl have to the first wagon.

[Axxle2]

Sure, but not every player was there. I wasn't. And I'm not ultimately making the decision myself- I'm counting my own vote as equal to anyone else's, but I'm explicitly stating if the majority overrules me, I'll go along, which is certainly not something that every player would do.

I am really not a fan of this.  I think that the notebearer should listen and put a lot of weight into what the town majority thinks, but should make the ultimate decision himself.

If you want to do this, ADK, I'd say at least give yourself doublevoter status or something. You know you're town.

[Axxle2]

In DW2, I didn't come out with a real vote until several days into D1.  By then I had a good feel for people and had enough to convince my (mistakenly) that faust was scum. 

Assuming this is true, this plus his point by point rebuttal of my case makes me want to...
Unvote

[Axxle2]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Mmmm, not really. He's the biggest wagon and now that people have put out cases and now he can respond to them. I mean I guess he could be searching for scum but that's just a bit more antitown than scummy.

[Axxle2]

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

If he had like one vote for him that's overdefensive. But he's almost lynched.

[Axxle2]

Vote Count 1.5
Eevee (2): XerxesPraelor, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (1): Teproc
2.71828..... (4): Axxle 2, Hydrad, Witherweaver, Eevee
Axxle2 (1): sudgy
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (2): EgorK, A Drowned Kernel

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

Egor is on me tooooooo

Vote: Hydrad When all else fails... sheep your town reads.

[Eevee]

My vote is based on his initial reaction, though. Of course his situation now warrants the intensity of his reaction.

[Teproc]

In DW2, I didn't come out with a real vote until several days into D1.  By then I had a good feel for people and had enough to convince my (mistakenly) that faust was scum. 

Assuming this is true, this plus his point by point rebuttal of my case makes me want to...
Unvote

I can confirm.

WW doesn't seem to be happening, let's try something else.

vote : Eevee

[Witherweaver]

WW doesn't seem to be happening, let's try something else.

I feel like someone says this every game.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Eevee

When in doubt, sheep the people that want to lynch you.

That's S-1, I think.

[Teproc]

Well I'm probably wrong about one of WW and Eevee.. great.

[EgorK]

Honestly its just a thought and a pretty lame one. But this game has a higher then 50% winrate if town just randomly shoots someone every time.

It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff as mafia can influence it so much.

Unless I forgot how to code actual town chances are about 43% using random votes (and yes, I had accounted for notebearer no shooting himself)

[EgorK]

Go for Axxle. We either eleminate hard to read scum or get good vig

[Teproc]

You guys are putting way too much weight in the 100% vig rate thing...

[Eevee]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

[Witherweaver]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

You said something scummy that one time. 

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.6

Eevee (4): XerxesPraelor, 2.71828....., Teproc, Witherweaver
2.71828..... (2): Hydrad, Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (2): silverspawn, Axxle2

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[Teproc]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

You said something scummy that one time. 

Why can't we lynch this guy again ?

[Witherweaver]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

You said something scummy that one time. 

Why can't we lynch this guy again ?

Because there is no lynching in this version.

[2.71828.....]

Why Eevee is scum

Eevee has been on my case from the very beginning.  In fact, he has posted so little, I can go back to the very beginning and go through all his posts.

• His first post was about how he didn't like the case against me, but thought my reaction was scummy.  He also casually sets up Axxle2 as scum by making a little joke.
• His next post was setup related, but immediately after that he again states how he thinks I overreacted to the votes against me.  And again, he casually sets Axxle2 up as scum. 
• Then he revotes me while I am at L-1 again because he thinks I overreacted to the votes.  This is what really made me think he is scum.  As I said, this vote has to come from either sloppy town or conniving scum.  I mean, I didn't explicitly say "I am at L-1" but 3 posts previous to his revote I stated that I had 5 votes.  The vote itself was enough for me to think he was scum, but now looking back at all his content, I am just confirming it in my mind.  the way he tunnels me has that "certainty" that I lacked in my first post which people find to be very townie (I guess).  But at the same time he is keeping a backdoor open for an Axxle2 lynch.
• His next post is simply a defense for why he is voting for me, saying that over-defending is scummy.  Then qualifies that by saying it is more overreaction than overdefending.  Then all off a sudden he starts to backtrack.  Saying that I was allowed to defend myself when I got to L-1 or so, but I guess not before that.

Also, eevee just isn't giving off his normal friendly town vibe.  Maybe that is just me because he has been targeting me, but in general town!eevee seems to be somewhat more active (recognizing that he did have some v/la at the start).  But in general, he has had any content added to the game, except to enlighten us on how defending yourself is scummy.

[Teproc]

I mean the Eevee lynch is fine but the deafening silence I've been getting with trying to get a wagon on WW is making me feel really good about lynching him.

Still no one ?

[Teproc]

Eevee : for me it's simple. You're being lazy, going for an easy case and overstating it by saying that overedefending yourself is a scum tell (it's been proven time and time again that it isn't) and you just generally feel off.

You also felt completely off to me when I was spectating James Bond though, so... I don't know, you're not my preferred lynch, but why not.

[Witherweaver]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

I think it's of interest that Eevee doesn't defend himself.. he somewhat backed himself into a corner with the "e is overdefending" argument, so if he comes off as defensive here, people can throw that argument back to him.  This is something he'd definitely be conscious of as scum.  Would he be conscious of it as town, too?  Well, probably, so this isn't damning or anything.

[Teproc]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

I think it's of interest that Eevee doesn't defend himself.. he somewhat backed himself into a corner with the "e is overdefending" argument, so if he comes off as defensive here, people can throw that argument back to him.  This is something he'd definitely be conscious of as scum.  Would he be conscious of it as town, too?  Well, probably, so this isn't damning or anything.

This is such a specious argument. You're better than this.

vote : WW

I've rarely been so confident about someone being scum.

[Witherweaver]

I mean the Eevee lynch is fine but the deafening silence I've been getting with trying to get a wagon on WW is making me feel really good about lynching him.

Still no one ?

Well scum!me only has three other partners, so there are still six Town other than you that aren't lighting their torches to march on my door just as much as my scum partners are not.  That's twice as many not my scum partners as my scum partners.

Or it could be that I've been presenting myself as an easy "mislynch" and scum doesn't want to take the bait.

PPE: I laughed last time you voted for me right?  I think so.  I'll do it again: Muwahahahaha

[Teproc]

I mean ok, you kind of get out of it by the end of your post here, but this is not something town!WW posts. You follow the line of thought, realize it's worth nothing, and don't post it.

But here it allows you to give some fuel to the Eevee wagon in case someone actually thinks it's scummy.

[Teproc]

You're such an easy mislynch that I'm the only one voting for you, ever.

[Witherweaver]

I mean ok, you kind of get out of it by the end of your post here, but this is not something town!WW posts. You follow the line of thought, realize it's worth nothing, and don't post it.

But here it allows you to give some fuel to the Eevee wagon in case someone actually thinks it's scummy.

Not true.  As scum I would know whether or not it's wroth anything, and if it isn't (or I couldn't spin it), I would not post it.  As Town I don't know if it's not worth anything.  If you pay attention to me* I'm more likely to post weak things as town than as scum.  a) As town you're not in danger of being "found out", so you don't have to be careful and second guess things you type.  b) You don't actually know what's going to turn out correct in the end.

*You know you've never been right about my alignment?

[Witherweaver]

You're such an easy mislynch that I'm the only one voting for you, ever.

And that also makes me think you're town.

[Teproc]

*You know you've never been right about my alignment?

I am aware of that, yes.

Actually it's not true, I made you an IC in ASoIaF. But yes. Still.

[Witherweaver]

*You know you've never been right about my alignment?

I am aware of that, yes.

Actually it's not true, I made you an IC in ASoIaF. But yes. Still.

Oh, yeah, well, a bit of an edge case.

[2.71828.....]

I mean the Eevee lynch is fine but the deafening silence I've been getting with trying to get a wagon on WW is making me feel really good about lynching him.

Still no one ?

Well scum!me only has three other partners, so there are still six Town other than you that aren't lighting their torches to march on my door just as much as my scum partners are not.  That's twice as many not my scum partners as my scum partners.

Or it could be that I've been presenting myself as an easy "mislynch" and scum doesn't want to take the bait.

PPE: I laughed last time you voted for me right?  I think so.  I'll do it again: Muwahahahaha

You guys remember what you said about my early posts reminding you all of scum!e in that blitz game?  Well, this post reminds me of that.  Talking about yourself as scum, making jokes, just generally assuming you are above suspicion.  Now, WW is an experienced scum player, and as far as I recall never did anything like this.  But I don't know, I might be talked into a WW vote. 

First I want to hear from eevee though.  I also totally disagree with what WW said about eevee backing himself into a corner over the whole "defending" thing.  Because at L-2 (which is where he used to be) I would expect some defense.  Of some sort.

[Witherweaver]

I mean the Eevee lynch is fine but the deafening silence I've been getting with trying to get a wagon on WW is making me feel really good about lynching him.

Still no one ?

Well scum!me only has three other partners, so there are still six Town other than you that aren't lighting their torches to march on my door just as much as my scum partners are not.  That's twice as many not my scum partners as my scum partners.

Or it could be that I've been presenting myself as an easy "mislynch" and scum doesn't want to take the bait.

PPE: I laughed last time you voted for me right?  I think so.  I'll do it again: Muwahahahaha

You guys remember what you said about my early posts reminding you all of scum!e in that blitz game?  Well, this post reminds me of that.  Talking about yourself as scum, making jokes, just generally assuming you are above suspicion.  Now, WW is an experienced scum player, and as far as I recall never did anything like this.  But I don't know, I might be talked into a WW vote. 

First I want to hear from eevee though.  I also totally disagree with what WW said about eevee backing himself into a corner over the whole "defending" thing.  Because at L-2 (which is where he used to be) I would expect some defense.  Of some sort.

That was kind of my point.  Scum!Eevee thinks he has to respond to his quickly growing wagon (I voted right after Teproc).  But he also thinks, "Hmm.. I'm arguing for a mislynch (unlikely you're both scum) by claiming e is being overly defensive.  If I start acting really defensive, my argument against e will look worse.  Maybe I should take a different route."  Town might not stop to think how defending would make them look and simply defend.

[2.71828.....]

On a different note, we need more than this from EgorK:

It seems I'll be vla till monday. I hope you won't generate something like agot d1 volume in the meantime

Interesting read so far, especcially Axlle. Actually if he is really good at vig then vote: Axxle2 as he seems to be hard to read so can be scum as well

Honestly its just a thought and a pretty lame one. But this game has a higher then 50% winrate if town just randomly shoots someone every time.

It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff as mafia can influence it so much.

Unless I forgot how to code actual town chances are about 43% using random votes (and yes, I had accounted for notebearer no shooting himself)

Go for Axxle. We either eleminate hard to read scum or get good vig

[2.71828.....]

I mean the Eevee lynch is fine but the deafening silence I've been getting with trying to get a wagon on WW is making me feel really good about lynching him.

Still no one ?

Well scum!me only has three other partners, so there are still six Town other than you that aren't lighting their torches to march on my door just as much as my scum partners are not.  That's twice as many not my scum partners as my scum partners.

Or it could be that I've been presenting myself as an easy "mislynch" and scum doesn't want to take the bait.

PPE: I laughed last time you voted for me right?  I think so.  I'll do it again: Muwahahahaha

You guys remember what you said about my early posts reminding you all of scum!e in that blitz game?  Well, this post reminds me of that.  Talking about yourself as scum, making jokes, just generally assuming you are above suspicion.  Now, WW is an experienced scum player, and as far as I recall never did anything like this.  But I don't know, I might be talked into a WW vote. 

First I want to hear from eevee though.  I also totally disagree with what WW said about eevee backing himself into a corner over the whole "defending" thing.  Because at L-2 (which is where he used to be) I would expect some defense.  Of some sort.

That was kind of my point.  Scum!Eevee thinks he has to respond to his quickly growing wagon (I voted right after Teproc).  But he also thinks, "Hmm.. I'm arguing for a mislynch (unlikely you're both scum) by claiming e is being overly defensive.  If I start acting really defensive, my argument against e will look worse.  Maybe I should take a different route."  Town might not stop to think how defending would make them look and simply defend.

So eevee is scum because he is thinking too much about undermining his case against me?

[Witherweaver]

It's possible, yeah.  It would definitely pop into my head if I were in that situation.

[Teproc]

This is completely ignoring the fact that "what's the case against me because I don't see it" IS a defense, one that Eevee often uses actually.

[sudgy]

I could probably go for WW or Eevee.  I can see the cases in both of them, but I'm not too excited about it.  I don't really see e.  If I have time, I will reread and such.

Also, I don't see why you guys say overdefending isn't a scumtell.  I myself was caught by it once.

[Witherweaver]

This is completely ignoring the fact that "what's the case against me because I don't see it" IS a defense, one that Eevee often uses actually.

Eh, it's like defense-light.  I wasn't aware that he uses it often, though.

So you think he's Town now?

[Teproc]

No, I'm just saying that the whole "he's afraid to defend himself because of his case on e" argument is wrong.

[Axxle2]

I'm going to be out of the country for about a week and a half starting tomorrow, so I'll be pretty VLA.

[Eevee]

Eevee : for me it's simple. You're being lazy, going for an easy case and overstating it by saying that overedefending yourself is a scum tell (it's been proven time and time again that it isn't) and you just generally feel off.

You also felt completely off to me when I was spectating James Bond though, so... I don't know, you're not my preferred lynch, but why not.

What? No it hasn't. Who could it even be proved?

Look, I get that some people always react to pressure more strongly than others. However, strong reactions to early day 1 pressure, especially those colored with "hey, those reasons for thinking I'm scum suck!!" have very often been overplaying scum in the past. It's hard to keep things in context when you are super self-conscious about appearing towny.

I totally admit to being lazy though, I was totally off the grid for the first 8 pages of the game, after which we've stalled pretty badly which has made it harder to really get into the swing of things.

This is completely ignoring the fact that "what's the case against me because I don't see it" IS a defense, one that Eevee often uses actually.

e underlined the reasons pretty well. I of course agree with you guys that being at L-2 merits a response. I'm almost glad, being made to defend yourself is one of the easiest ways of getting yourself immersed in the game.

[EgorK]

So tell me if I worng. We currently has like 3 cases (aside from Axxle):

• e for hedging and overdefending
• eevee for jumping easy case and lurking
• WW case by Teproc

Had I missed anything?

[Hydrad]

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum in e or WW. but e's wagon got high really quickly. I think thats something more likely to happen as town. I'm going to go to

Vote: WW

Also its pretty much time for WW to be scum again i think.

[2.71828.....]

I of course agree with you guys that being at L-2 merits a response. I'm almost glad, being made to defend yourself is one of the easiest ways of getting yourself immersed in the game.

And.....?

The defense......?

Also its pretty much time for WW to be scum again i think.

So that is a reason to vote WW?  Or are you sheeping Teproc's vote and like his reasoning behind thinking WW is scum?

ADK is going to shoot someone in roughly 36 hours.  We need to get some movement in this game.  Unfortunately, I might not be around the rest of the day, but will be around tomorrow.

[Witherweaver]

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum in e or WW. but e's wagon got high really quickly. I think thats something more likely to happen as town. I'm going to go to

Vote: WW

Also its pretty much time for WW to be scum again i think.

"Pretty sure" ... why?

[Hydrad]

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum in e or WW. but e's wagon got high really quickly. I think thats something more likely to happen as town. I'm going to go to

Vote: WW

Also its pretty much time for WW to be scum again i think.

"Pretty sure" ... why?

Nah thats not the real reason I'm voting you. Just felt like putting it in there.

[Witherweaver]

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum in e or WW. but e's wagon got high really quickly. I think thats something more likely to happen as town. I'm going to go to

Vote: WW

Also its pretty much time for WW to be scum again i think.

"Pretty sure" ... why?

Nah thats not the real reason I'm voting you. Just felt like putting it in there.

"I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum in e or WW. but e's wagon got high really quickly. I think thats something more likely to happen as town. I'm going to go to

Vote: WW"

Sounds like the fakest of fake reasons, like you could have put any name there instead of "WW" and have nothing change.  Why bother looking like you're making an argument at all?

Fun fact: "I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum in X or Y" is something I did a lot as scum~

[Hydrad]

I realize its not a very good case but with day 1 there isn't a whole lot to go off of. I'm going with the thought that scum is going to try extremely hard to not get shot day 1. So i really don't think if e was scum his wagon would have gotten that close. that makes me think hes towny. I guess its not even between you or e any more. I'm fairly sure that e is town and I think you are scum.

The biggest thing here is I don't have an amazing case for why you are scum... I just have a feeling.

[Witherweaver]

I realize its not a very good case but with day 1 there isn't a whole lot to go off of. I'm going with the thought that scum is going to try extremely hard to not get shot day 1. So i really don't think if e was scum his wagon would have gotten that close. that makes me think hes towny. I guess its not even between you or e any more. I'm fairly sure that e is town and I think you are scum.

The biggest thing here is I don't have an amazing case for why you are scum... I just have a feeling.

This sounds a lot like backpeddling to me.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm comfortable shooting out of WW, Eevee or e. If people feel strongly about anyone else, now's the time to start making your case. I know I said I would shoot out of the biggest wagon, and I probably will, but I'll go back and look over those three sometime between now and Sunday morning and see if anything changes my mind.

[XerxesPraelor]

All those targets are great. I don't really care which, so not sure what to say.

[XerxesPraelor]

I guess I'd rank ww/eevee as better "lynches" than eevee, but whatever.

[silverspawn]

guys, let us kill EgorK. there is no good case in this game. it has never been a better time to lynch a lurker. (I know this is also my least active game so far, but I really didn't know what to post)

I don't like the e case. I'm not sold on WW, but he's probably above readable for me, so I don't really know. And Eevee, I'm not sure. That wouldn't be terrible.

but let's do EgorK. A total of 5 posts, and about half of them about how we should kill Axxle.

vote: EgorK

[EgorK]

Why you do not want to kill Axxle?

[2.71828.....]

Why you do not want to kill Axxle?

why do you want to shoot Axxle?  I mean, you haven't actually presented anything resembling a case about him. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

The problem with shooting someone who's lurking is if they're town, they get the gun.

[2.71828.....]

The problem with shooting someone who's lurking is if they're town, they get the gun.

yeah.  This was brought up before, I believe by WW.  It is an interesting question.  Because if scum lurks and we never shoot a lurker, well, scum will eventually win.  I just don't know that shooting a lurker is the right thing to do D1.  Personally, I find people who post more much townier in general, so eventually lurking scum will be PoEed onto my list of "want to get shot." 

That being said, I think eevee is the perfect combination of lurker/scummy player for a D1 shot.  He has yet to respond to my case against him, maybe because he can't figure out a good defense because he is in fact scum

[Teproc]

Eevee's not lurking this game.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm going to

vote: ww

because e doesn't seem to be happening and I like the case on him better than the one on eevee.

I'm not willing to lynch anyone but them. Although EgorK and Hydrad look scummy to me, I think one of those three is better because if they flip town they'll be more useful for us.

[2.71828.....]

Post count 1.0

1. Eevee 2. Hydrad 3. Witherweaver 4. Teproc 5. silverspawn 6. XerxesPraelor 7. sudgy 8. A Drowned Kernal 9. Axxle2 10. EgorK 11. 2.71828.....

9 19 55 43 28 30 9 18 31 6 20

So yeah.  D1 has been going on for 9 days.  I would say 1 post per day is lurking. 

[XerxesPraelor]

Axxle2 has posted more than me?! That's weird.

[Teproc]

Ok you're right, I'm surprised by this, Eevee has felt a lot more present this game than sudgy for example.

I think lurking is pretty null by the way, and I don't see a reason why we should or should kill lurkers, since whoever gets the kill doesn't matter if we still use a lynching system, which people seem to forget we agreed to at the beginning of this game.

[Teproc]

should or shouldn't*

[silverspawn]

Ok you're right, I'm surprised by this, Eevee has felt a lot more present this game than sudgy for example.

I think lurking is pretty null by the way, and I don't see a reason why we should or should kill lurkers, since whoever gets the kill doesn't matter if we still use a lynching system, which people seem to forget we agreed to at the beginning of this game.

I don't think lurking should be null. Call it a policy lynch. Lurkers should be lynched more often, otherwise lurking actually becomes the best strategy

Plus, I have almost only town reads this game. If lurkers are null, that's good enough here.

[2.71828.....]

Ok you're right, I'm surprised by this, Eevee has felt a lot more present this game than sudgy for example.

I think lurking is pretty null by the way, and I don't see a reason why we should or should kill lurkers, since whoever gets the kill doesn't matter if we still use a lynching system, which people seem to forget we agreed to at the beginning of this game.

I don't know that we completely agreed on this.  I think the matter was kind of put to the side when ADK stated very strongly that he would use this, but I don't remember ever coming to a unilateral agreement

[2.71828.....]

I do not agree with a "lynch all lurkers" philosophy though.  In my opinion, lurking does not make a person scum, but posting makes a person seem like town.  Therefore, lurkers, in general, seem like scum to me much more than active posters.

Which might not always be the case

[XerxesPraelor]

Ok you're right, I'm surprised by this, Eevee has felt a lot more present this game than sudgy for example.

I think lurking is pretty null by the way, and I don't see a reason why we should or should kill lurkers, since whoever gets the kill doesn't matter if we still use a lynching system, which people seem to forget we agreed to at the beginning of this game.

I don't think lurking should be null. Call it a policy lynch. Lurkers should be lynched more often, otherwise lurking actually becomes the best strategy

Plus, I have almost only town reads this game. If lurkers are null, that's good enough here.

This makes sense, but there are three better lynches here.

[XerxesPraelor]

I do not agree with a "lynch all lurkers" philosophy though.  In my opinion, lurking does not make a person scum, but posting makes a person seem like town.  Therefore, lurkers, in general, seem like scum to me much more than active posters.

Which might not always be the case

This isn't the case for me for sure - lurking gives me a null impression, so I have to compensate for that. Anyway, if you flip scum, we'll know to look for lurkers - thanks!

[2.71828.....]

Anyway, if you flip scum, we'll know to look for lurkers - thanks!

huh?  I don't get your reasoning here.

[XerxesPraelor]

You're pushing us away from lynching lurkers. Now I agree we have better choices now, but we can't just let scum lurk to victory. Still, that was probably better saved until after we know that you're scum - not much use speculating now.

[silverspawn]

I don't know that we completely agreed on this.

we absolutely didn't. maybe some people did, but not all of us.

[2.71828.....]

You're pushing us away from lynching lurkers. Now I agree we have better choices now, but we can't just let scum lurk to victory. Still, that was probably better saved until after we know that you're scum - not much use speculating now.

I don't know how you got that from what I posted.  First, I am pushing an eevee lynch, someone who I consider to be lurking this game.  Next, I state that posting a lot gives me a townie impression of that person.  My conclusion was (maybe not explicitly stated) that we do not need to concern ourselves overmuch about lynching lurkers, because as the days progress they will rise to the top as scum.

Which is definitely not "pushing us away from lynching lurkers"

[EgorK]

Why you do not want to kill Axxle?

why do you want to shoot Axxle?  I mean, you haven't actually presented anything resembling a case about him.

I've presented my case. But question was not directed at you but at silver. He contends that voting for Axxle is scummy for some reason, I want to know why

[XerxesPraelor]

I still don't get your thought process, but it looks like I made a mistake there. That ferocity does look scummy though.

[EgorK]

Ok you're right, I'm surprised by this, Eevee has felt a lot more present this game than sudgy for example.

I think lurking is pretty null by the way, and I don't see a reason why we should or should kill lurkers, since whoever gets the kill doesn't matter if we still use a lynching system, which people seem to forget we agreed to at the beginning of this game.

Had we? I think that was solely ADK decision. And he even said that he is now not sure if he would do it

[XerxesPraelor]

Why you do not want to kill Axxle?

why do you want to shoot Axxle?  I mean, you haven't actually presented anything resembling a case about him.

I've presented my case. But question was not directed at you but at silver. He contends that voting for Axxle is scummy for some reason, I want to know why

It's scummy because you have a strong vote on someone who won't be lynched today with basically no case.

[2.71828.....]

Interesting read so far, especcially Axlle. Actually if he is really good at vig then vote: Axxle2 as he seems to be hard to read so can be scum as well

I am almost willing to join silverspawn in voting for you just because you called this a "case" against Axxle2.  I would call that a gut feeling more than a case.

[2.71828.....]

I still don't get your thought process, but it looks like I made a mistake there. That ferocity does look scummy though.

I just don't like being misunderstood. 

(emoticons are ok since Robz isn't playing, right?)

[Teproc]

The fallacy here is one that we always run into : no thing is inherently scummy.

If mail-mi lurks, is it scummy ? Nope. But if I lurk, well it's unusual at least, so maybe it is scummy.

e, you just said you get town reads on people from just posting... which is exactly why scum would want to be active.

Basically you can't say lurking is scummy or that it's townie. You can say that a specific person lurking is scummy (might be true for Eevee actually) though.

Then there's the policy lynch argument. Lurking may not be scummy, but it clearly is anti-town. I don't believe in policy lynching, but at least I can understand that particular argument.

In any case, I'm obviously favoring a WW lynch though I'm fine with Eevee. Not enthusiastic about e, but not particularly confident he's town either.

[silverspawn]

Why you do not want to kill Axxle?

Why should I want to kill Axxle? It's the first time I'm playing with him. My impression is that he's active, good at this game, and pretty hilarious. None of that is a reason to kill, or not to kill him (in this format, shooting someone who's good is a double edged sword). So, I'm null on him.

And yea, there's no case. Not from you at least. I think WW made one.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 1.7

Eevee (2): 2.71828....., Witherweaver
2.71828..... (1): Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (1): Axxle2
Witherweaver (3): Teproc, Hydrad, XerxesPraelor
EgorK (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

Day 1 ends at 2pm FT on October 19th.

[XerxesPraelor]

Up to a point, anti-town should be scummy - we'd rather have people get town points for pro-town actions than for anti-town ones.

[Teproc]

Up to a point, anti-town should be scummy - we'd rather have people get town points for pro-town actions than for anti-town ones.

That's the idea behind policy lynching yes.

Me, I try to win this game, not make it easier for town in future games.

[XerxesPraelor]

Up to a point, anti-town should be scummy - we'd rather have people get town points for pro-town actions than for anti-town ones.

That's the idea behind policy lynching yes.

Me, I try to win this game, not make it easier for town in future games.

And because of that, you'll do worse in this game too. The fact that that's the way you work is hurting you now.

[XerxesPraelor]

Not sure if that made any sense - basically, what you decide to have your decision process be affects things, even if your actual decision process doesn't matter.

[Teproc]

I don't follow.

[XerxesPraelor]

Subtract the last process - typo.

[Teproc]

I still don't see how my not wanting to policy lynch people is reducing my ability to win this game ? Policy lynching is obviously worse at finding scum than normal lynching is, that's why I don't do it.

[silverspawn]

I still don't see how my not wanting to policy lynch people is reducing my ability to win this game ? Policy lynching is obviously worse at finding scum than normal lynching is, that's why I don't do it.

but it's like an investment in future games, isn't it? isn't that worth something too?

[Teproc]

I still don't see how my not wanting to policy lynch people is reducing my ability to win this game ? Policy lynching is obviously worse at finding scum than normal lynching is, that's why I don't do it.

but it's like an investment in future games, isn't it? isn't that worth something too?

Only if you always roll town.

[silverspawn]

I still don't see how my not wanting to policy lynch people is reducing my ability to win this game ? Policy lynching is obviously worse at finding scum than normal lynching is, that's why I don't do it.

but it's like an investment in future games, isn't it? isn't that worth something too?

Only if you always roll town.

As long as you don't lurk as scum, it's not a disadvantage as scum. Well, I guess your partners could be lurking.

[Hydrad]

I usually go for lurker lynches when I don't have a person that I find very scummy at the moment. In my mind I start going to one of the lurkers since they are harder to read and if I'm getting a towny vibe from everyone else I'm more likely to vote for a lurker.

[Teproc]

I mena if you think everyone sounds townie that's a fine thing to do, I happen to think most people sound scummy in this game.

[silverspawn]

well time is running out, and noone except me wants to do Egork, so I'll go for the next best thing

vote: Eevee

that's mostly due to e's posts

[Hydrad]

I mena if you think everyone sounds townie that's a fine thing to do, I happen to think most people sound scummy in this game.

Ya if you have multiple scum reads this game personally I would oppose lurker lynches then.

[EgorK]

Why you do not want to kill Axxle?

why do you want to shoot Axxle?  I mean, you haven't actually presented anything resembling a case about him.

I've presented my case. But question was not directed at you but at silver. He contends that voting for Axxle is scummy for some reason, I want to know why

It's scummy because you have a strong vote on someone who won't be lynched today with basically no case.

I had little time this week otherwise I would write up expanded case. I just think that current wagons are really weak, through D1 wagons rarely strong. Also there is no need to switch to avoid no lynch in this game so I would switch if I would think I can push through lynch of someone who is more scummy to me. In a meantime I would try to reread some people. Whu sudgy never got heat for his lurkness like me or eevee?

[silverspawn]

Whu sudgy never got heat for his lurkness like me or eevee?

that's a good point, and I'm totally going to vote for sudgy if that has any chance of happening.

[Hydrad]

Whu sudgy never got heat for his lurkness like me or eevee?

that's a good point, and I'm totally going to vote for sudgy if that has any chance of happening.

I actually didn't realize this either. I'd be willing to go for sudgy too. I still prefer WW but I am not opposed to a sudgy vote either.

[Teproc]

I've been thinking and I think I like

vote : Eevee

I'd also be up for lynching Axxle by the way.

[silverspawn]

let's try!

vote: sudgy

[EgorK]

So sudgy had some posts at the start of the game, around 9-11th, and then couple of posts at 15th-16th. His posts strikes me as disinterested. 2 votes - first on silver, then on Axxle. I don't know. Anyone knows his meta?

[sudgy]

So sudgy had some posts at the start of the game, around 9-11th, and then couple of posts at 15th-16th. His posts strikes me as disinterested. 2 votes - first on silver, then on Axxle. I don't know. Anyone knows his meta?

I have two ways I start games, depending on various real life factors: One, I'm really active and get lynched for it (every time, almost), or two, I don't manage to get into the game that well and it turns into what happened here.

I've been really busy recently, but have been reading.  I just haven't found anything that's been big enough for me to post about.

[A Drowned Kernel]

FYI I wouldn't necessarily advocate using the vote system for every single day. It's important early on, but later people who have the gun should strongly consider going with their own gut I think.

[2.71828.....]

So this is where we stand right now.  ADK said he would be shooting in about an hour or so. 

Vote Count 1.2.71828

Eevee (3): 2.71828....., Witherweaver, Teproc
2.71828..... (1): Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (1): Axxle2
Witherweaver (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor
Sudgy (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

So right now we are looking at eevee getting shot.  I don't really see a ton of movement happening up until the point that ADK shoots. 

[silverspawn]

okay, make it eevee

I don't feel good about this, but meh. sorry ADK, I think your chances of surviving this shot aren't very high.

but Eevee is the best case I think, if we don't want to do a full lurker.

vote: eevee

[XerxesPraelor]

There are a lot of other people with votes on people who aren't getting shot. That should probably change.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm going to look over the thread. People still have time to convince me to change my position or their votes, but I don't feel too bad about Eevee as the shooting choice.

[2.71828.....]

There are a lot of other people with votes on people who aren't getting shot. That should probably change.

you mean like eevee (who knows where he is), Axxle2 (v/la), sudgy (hasn't found anything compelling enough to talk about), and EgorK (who is being very persistent about Axxle2)

For me, the choice is between WW and eevee, and unless you produce some compelling evidence (since you are voting WW), then I really don't see myself changing. 

[2.71828.....]

I've been really busy recently, but have been reading.  I just haven't found anything that's been big enough for me to post about.

I do find this interesting though.  Is it harder for scum to find something big enough to post about, or town?  Because, I was at "shoot-1" which seems like it would be big enough to merit a comment.  Eevee is(?) about to get shot.   That seems like something big enough to post about.  There is always something that you can talk about.  The biggest thing is trying to avoid looking scummy in what you post.  Town and scum worry about that, but I would think scum is more cognizant of it than town.  And therefore might find it harder to find something "big enough" that doesn't implicate them in some way.

I think it is worth looking into, but I don't think we should make a major shift in Sudgy's direction at this point of D1.

[2.71828.....]

Anyway, I have to go, probably won't get back before the shot.  Happy hunting ADK.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hydrad, it looks like you're here. Any thoughts?

[Hydrad]

I still like WW the most out of these options. I don't really have a read on eevee though. Most games he seems really null for me.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Speaking of Witherweaver, he's apparently online too.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Well I find Eevee plenty scummy, but there's also some pretty scummy people on his wagon. If he is my successor, I'd advise him to start with that.

For posterity, he's what my reads look like right now:

Scummy: Eevee, WW, e, Hydrad, Sudgy

Mildly Scummy: Teproc, EgorK

Towny: XP, silverspawn, Axxle

Shoot: Eevee (is that the right syntax?)

[Hydrad]

I hope we still see you tomorrow ADK!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Alone in the office in the dead of night, Soichiro Yagami finished penning the name into the Death Note. Beads of sweat dripped off of his brow, which was wrinkled in conflict and anticipation. He adjusted his glasses carefully, causing them to reflect the intense light from the florescent lights set in the ceiling of the room.
 
He had made the deal with the Shinigami. And with the help of Shinigami eyes, he was certain that he had discovered one of Kira’s allies. It was unlike him to take matters into his own hands and kill the man himself, but he believed that the other members of the task force would agree with his decision—especially if his gamble paid off.

Elsewhere, Teruk Mikami was seated on his couch watching the evening news. He felt an unpleasant tightness in his chest. Within the span of a few seconds, a spasm rippled across his body. Mikami stood up and screamed as he felt his heart give way inside of him. How had they discovered him? And what other power in the world possessed a Death Note? His god Kira had never told him of any such possibility.

At the Office, Soichiro Yagami looked at the second hand of his watch, noting the amount of time that had passed. Only a few more seconds. His sense of justice compelled him to be correct in his judgement. He had already written letters to the other members of the task force telling them what he planned to do that night. He would be held accountable by them for his actions one way or the other.

In his final moments, Teru Mikami clawed at the air violently and managed to scream a final word before collapsing. “KIRA!!!!!!”

Eevee has been killed! He was a Mafia Goon!

A Drowned Kernal is still the Notebearer.

Day 2 starts now!

Day 2 ends October 29th at 12pm (want to make sure I'm awake).

[Hydrad]

oh well that was fast... also yay!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh, well that's cool. More thoughts later.

[silverspawn]

yea. BAM. *SCREAAM*. someone is about to die. although I have no idea how you can die by shooting. maybe the gun... explodes? BOOM.

PEE: oh. okay. nice!

[silverspawn]

that was strangely anti-climactic

[silverspawn]

no flavor?

[Hydrad]

yea. BAM. *SCREAAM*. someone is about to die. although I have no idea how you can die by shooting. maybe the gun... explodes? BOOM.

PEE: oh. okay. nice!

not a gun. a note book . and uh you die by... accidentally writing your name down for some reason?

[silverspawn]

you just write "the bad guy," and if the notebook doesn't like you, well that's unfortunate.

[silverspawn]

okay, a few things in no particular order. first

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

Eevee posted this. Does this mean that Axxle is not scum? Probably not. Does this mean he is scum, and Eevee thought that, if he flips, it'd give him town credit, because he wouldn't dare referencing his true ally? that's some WIFOM right here. well, it probably just means nothing. Most likely he saw this opportunity for a joke, and went for it, regardless of anyone's alignment. Trying to look not-worried and that stuff.

Second, I knew there was scum on the e wagon. Here we already have one. I'm confident that there's more. Probably not too much though. So, we don't necessarily have to shoot someone on-wagon next.

Third, if Eevee was scum, it means he might have made/influenced the decision to make ADK the notebearer. So, why would he do that? Do Eevee and ADK have any history together? is ADK particularly good at reading Eevee or something?

[Hydrad]

hmm also I guess that makes WW townier in my book. I think I'm going for sudgy now for scummyness

Vote: sudgy

[Hydrad]

Third, if Eevee was scum, it means he might have made/influenced the decision to make ADK the notebearer. So, why would he do that? Do Eevee and ADK have any history together? is ADK particularly good at reading Eevee or something?

I think that scum didn't put a ton of thought into choosing the notebearer. I know I wouldn't have much to go on with it. The biggest thing is I think they may have thought that ADK would follow the majority and they felt like they could influence the majority pretty well? Thats my only real idea.

[Hydrad]

wait does mafia have daychat then if there are no nights? I don't see any mention of this in the first few posts.

[Witherweaver]

I never understand why people doubt my towniness

[Witherweaver]

wait does mafia have daychat then if there are no nights? I don't see any mention of this in the first few posts.

Except, like, my very first post.

[Hydrad]

wait does mafia have daychat then if there are no nights? I don't see any mention of this in the first few posts.

Except, like, my very first post.

oh i ctrl+f the whole game for the word daychat and only saw teproc mention it for a different format. I must of missed you posting that. Sorry

[Hydrad]

also I think we are in a extremely good spot now. I wasn't expecting us to hit scum day1 with almost half the people other then the IC being scum. Now that they have under a third of the people it should be easier for us to not be swayed incorrectly

[Witherweaver]

So it's about that time of the game where I

Vote: Hydrad

[Hydrad]

So it's about that time of the game where I

Vote: Hydrad

It just doesn't feel right without it!

[Witherweaver]

So this was the last vote count

So this is where we stand right now.  ADK said he would be shooting in about an hour or so. 

Vote Count 1.2.71828

Eevee (3): 2.71828....., Witherweaver, Teproc
2.71828..... (1): Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (1): Axxle2
Witherweaver (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor
Sudgy (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

So right now we are looking at eevee getting shot.  I don't really see a ton of movement happening up until the point that ADK shoots.

After that, Silver switched to Eevee.  Town points?  I guess.. maybe he had to, or he could have gone for me, but that would be back-peddling his previous read on me.  Probably looks good for him now.  And then ADK shot Eevee.  So the final "count" would be

Vote Count WW.e:

Eevee (3): 2.71828....., Witherweaver, Teproc, Silverspawn, ADK
2.71828..... (1): Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (1): Axxle2
Witherweaver (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor

[Witherweaver]

Sudgy voting Axxle strikes me as odd..

Would Teproc move to Eevee as a partner?  My guess is not. Though he may have felt he wouldn't be able to push my case.. he seemed discouraged that it didn't get scheme.  Still, Teproc and Silver look a bit townier from this.

Of note.. would scum be more or less likely to bus in this setup?  There are four, so maybe they feel they can sacrifice one for distance?  Also, day chat is something to keep in mind.. they can coordinate bussing, wagon-driving, etc.

[silverspawn]

I don't think I should get any town points for switching to Eevee last minute, because he already had the most votes. Rather for the fact that I previously said Eevee is my favorite among the list of lynches that aren't solely based on lurking, and really only switched in the first place because I tried to make a lurker lynch happen.

[Witherweaver]

I don't think I should get any town points for switching to Eevee last minute, because he already had the most votes. Rather for the fact that I previously said Eevee is my favorite among the list of lynches that aren't solely based on lurking, and really only switched in the first place because I tried to make a lurker lynch happen.

He had the most votes, but only by one.  He was at 3, I was at 2.

[Hydrad]

also a fun thing that I thought I would post. unless WW is scum my reads the past few games have been horrible. I did much better when I got super influenced by everyone in my first few games. Whenever I try to sound confident and pick someone on my own I'm wrong...

and yes I know people will probably find this scummy somehow. I just wanted to post it anyways.

[Witherweaver]

also a fun thing that I thought I would post. unless WW is scum my reads the past few games have been horrible. I did much better when I got super influenced by everyone in my first few games. Whenever I try to sound confident and pick someone on my own I'm wrong...

and yes I know people will probably find this scummy somehow. I just wanted to post it anyways.

For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a  tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

[Hydrad]

actually I think sudgy and XP are my highest too reads right now. I'm guessing at least one scum would be on WW to try and save eevee from getting killed.

XP was the one with me.

I'm equally willing to go sudgy or XP right now.

[silverspawn]

I'm still up for a lurker lynch. If anything, the fact that we're in a comfortable lead only makes it more attractive. And we even have sort of a case for Sudgy. Plus, voting for axxle2 is really lame. "He could be a good notebearer" sounds an awful lot like an excuse for scum to vote for him.

and EgorK has kind of stopped lurking, so

vote: Sudgy

[Hydrad]

So it's about that time of the game where I

Vote: Hydrad

also I thought I should double check. This is a serious vote right? I'm assuming it is but when you put the "this is the time of the game where I" part it makes me think there is a chance your just joking around. Basically I just want you to confirm or not if this is a real vote.

[2.71828.....]

Nice.  We are in a great position right now.

significant (people who seemed most likely to get shot) D1 wagons:

Eevee: silverspawn, e, XP, Teproc, WW, silverspawn, Teproc, silverspawn. 
Final votes (4): 2.71828....., Witherweaver, Teproc, Silverspawn

e: Teproc, WW, Axxle2, XP, XP, Hydrad, Eevee, WW (S-1), eevee (revote)
Final votes (1): Eevee

WW: Teproc, XP, XP, Teproc, WW (self-vote), ADK (response to WW's self-vote), Hydrad, XP
Final votes (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor

Never voting on these wagons: Sudgy, EgorK
Final votes off wagon (3): Sudgy, EgorK, Axxle2

Things to note: 
- XP voted on each of these wagons.  Several times for some of them.  He is also the only person that left the eevee wagon without returning to it.  I think this is actually somewhat scummy of him.  Basically, dancing around the popular wagons, but when the final vote came in he was not on the scummy one.  (that we know)
- WW voted on each of these wagons, including his own.  I am still not sure what to make of the WW self-vote.  Self-voting is anti-town, but it does not mean you are scum.  WW knows this.  He is also a good scum player.  He put me at S-1, and put eevee at S-2 (even though he thought it was S-1 at the time).  I am very wary of the jovial, joking WW, partly because I don't remember seeing it in previous games.  Even his vote on eevee was tinged with this humor: "When in doubt, sheep the people that want to lynch you." Yeah, I don't like it.  vote: WW
- silverspawn.  The only person of the three major targets that he voted for was eevee.  But he bounced around a bunch of other random votes in between.  But always came back to eevee.  He was clearly against voting for me, and put feelers out to see if anything would stick on Hydrad, EgorK, and Sudgy.  He also says almost nothing about WW except that "he's probably above readable for me, so I don't really know."  If WW turns out to be scum as well, I think silverspawn is good target, but until then I think that his voting record against eevee is good enough to give me a town vibe on him for today.
- What do we do with the lurkers?  Specifically sudgy and EgorK.  I really didn't like sudgy's "I haven't seen anything big enough to comment on" at the end of D1.  He has received a couple votes early on today, and I think we need to make sure that he has something to talk about, so I will join the vote: sudgy wagon.  EgorK did up his activity yesterday, I just hope it continues today.  He has never been one of the most active players, a lot of that probably having to do with time difference so I don't see anything particularly scummy about him, but I don't have any reason to believe he is town either.

[sudgy]

Because, I was at "shoot-1" which seems like it would be big enough to merit a comment.

When they aren't actual votes, it makes it less huge...

Sudgy voting Axxle strikes me as odd..

That was an old vote, I thought of maybe switching to Eevee but I still wasn't too sure.

We should do some reads analysis in relation to Eevee.  I would think scum would be perfectly fine bussing with four scum, so I actually think the people who were the strongest on his case are the ones who would be the most scummy.  I don't think all scum did so, but I think at least one did.

[EgorK]

Sup. Eevee reread is waranted, through it would not be that long it seems. I am more interested in rereading other people talking about eevee though

[Teproc]

Awesome !

Off the top of my head, sudgy probably looks the scummiest based on Eevee's flip.

I still think WW has a decent chance of being scum.

[XerxesPraelor]

1 down, 3 to go - I'm getting less and less sure about my reads though. Basically everyone but teproc and ADK look scummy to me, but they can't all be scum. I'm going to reread and see what I see.

[Witherweaver]

Awesome !

Off the top of my head, sudgy probably looks the scummiest based on Eevee's flip.

I still think WW has a decent chance of being scum.

What, seriously?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I think the only one of my reads that's changed significantly with Eevee's flip is, e looks townier.

I've been thinking about this, and scum a) has daychat, b) has no nightkill and c) has (had) four members, which means they're going to be thinking a lot more about how they're interacting with each other. I would expect that there's going to be some pretty significant bussing from scum, especially since it's easier to have one partner bus while another counteracts it. So I'm pretty sure there's scum on wagon here. My most likely guess would be WW, though I'm not sure I would entirely discount Teproc. The question, though, is whether we should shoot on or off. I think my biggest off-wagon scumread is probably Sudgy.

[A Drowned Kernel]

For stuff that's happened today, WW being very active when he was super quiet at the end of yesterday is suspicious to me. He was online and not posting while I was about to shoot, there were 4 members looking at the thread but I'm not sure how to look at who that is? e was there up until the very end, and so was Hydrad, and so was I.

[Witherweaver]

I wasn't online while you were shooting.  I didn't see it until after, when I caught up and made a post. 

[AndrewisFTTW]

Flavor has been added if you're interested:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11862.msg430208#msg430208

[Teproc]

Awesome !

Off the top of my head, sudgy probably looks the scummiest based on Eevee's flip.

I still think WW has a decent chance of being scum.

What, seriously?

I fully expect scum to bus in this setup, and you were on the chopping block anyway. I'll have to reread to see if it makes sense though.

[Witherweaver]

Awesome !

Off the top of my head, sudgy probably looks the scummiest based on Eevee's flip.

I still think WW has a decent chance of being scum.

What, seriously?

I fully expect scum to bus in this setup, and you were on the chopping block anyway. I'll have to reread to see if it makes sense though.

I wasn't really on the chopping block when you left me for Eevee.  Well maybe you can argue I wanted to get the Eevee wagon going to keep things away from me, but at that point you were lamenting how hard it was to get my wagon rolling.

[Hydrad]

oh interesting I learned a new word. "lamenting".

I do still think WW is scummy. but hes more on the backburner right now. I think XP is scummiest for actions (but I always vote for him to get lynched...) and sudgy also is scummy for lurking and no one mentioning him? I'm guessing his scum partners didn't want to draw attention to sudgy?

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Xerxes

As e mentioned, he voted for Eevee but left, and he was on my wagon and on e's, who I'm starting to think is more town.  Also, XP hasn't done much of anything very XP like this game. 

[XerxesPraelor]

Vote: Xerxes

As e mentioned, he voted for Eevee but left, and he was on my wagon and on e's, who I'm starting to think is more town.  Also, XP hasn't done much of anything very XP like this game. 

By definition, everything I do is XP like. What do you mean?

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Xerxes

As e mentioned, he voted for Eevee but left, and he was on my wagon and on e's, who I'm starting to think is more town.  Also, XP hasn't done much of anything very XP like this game. 

By definition, everything I do is XP like. What do you mean?

For me, the norm for you is you being town.  So XP-like is like town!XP-like... like, yeah.

[XerxesPraelor]

I feel like I'm acting just the same (maybe a little less confident). What are you talking about?

[Hydrad]

I feel like I'm acting just the same (maybe a little less confident). What are you talking about?

You honestly feel townier to me then usual. The reason I think you scummy is the positions you took on wagons.

[2.71828.....]

ADK, when are you planning on shooting today? 

Because I would not complain if you shortened the day a little bit.  Because if we do 10-day days, every time, this game will last a long time even if we shoot scum every time.  I mean, this game could theoretically last up to 80 days or so at a 10-day day rate.  I don't think anyone wants that.

I think that the gun-bearer (whoever it is) should set a reasonable (or unreasonable- they are the gunbearer after all) timeline at the beginning of each day for when the shot will happen.  Then the rest of us adjust to that. 

And my reads haven't changed from my last post and nothing else has really happened since then either.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I can see some logic behind that, but I also want to give some chance for discussion, and some Axxle is on VLA. Would people be too upset if I resolved to shoot by this Friday?

[Hydrad]

I can see some logic behind that, but I also want to give some chance for discussion, and some Axxle is on VLA. Would people be too upset if I resolved to shoot by this Friday?

sounds good to me! honestly if you really wanted you could do surprise shootings. Although I'm not sure if that would help scum or town...

[silverspawn]

Shortening deadlines? Why? Longer games is good for town, no?

[Hydrad]

Shortening deadlines? Why? Longer games is good for town, no?

I don't know If I want a 3 month long mafia game...

[A Drowned Kernel]

Longer games can also cause town to lose interest (see: Legend of Zelda) and then scum can get away with lurking more because it isn't clear who's doing it because they're scum and who's just disinterested town. I won't shoot too quickly, and I want to hear everyone's thoughts on it, but it's an idea worth considering. Also keep posting reads, we don't want discussion to be bogged down with this.

[silverspawn]

Longer games can also cause town to lose interest (see: Legend of Zelda) and then scum can get away with lurking more because it isn't clear who's doing it because they're scum and who's just disinterested town. I won't shoot too quickly, and I want to hear everyone's thoughts on it, but it's an idea worth considering. Also keep posting reads, we don't want discussion to be bogged down with this.

dunno, I did a complete reread of Hydrad in Zelda mafia, and he seemed so scummy to me that lynching anyone else seemed like a crazy move. I don't think town lost that game because it went on for long, but because Hydrad looked scummy. no offense.

but you got a point, and it's not up to me anyway.

[Hydrad]

Well everyone should know my reads by now. sudgy and XP and both scum! does anyone have defenses on these people or a good reason they think someone else is scum? It seems sudgy wagon is getting a decent amount of support. Which slightly worries me in how fast its happening and how no one is really fighting it. I really think scum is going to fight hard if we are about to lynch another member.

[EgorK]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

[Witherweaver]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

Well, e is the kind of guy that would stage that, I think.  Eevee less so, but he might ago along with it.  They can coordinate it with chat. 

But, I'm thinking the more likely case is that Eevee tried to push a case against e for a "mislynch" and it just didn't work out.

Protip: Search for "Goko username: Eevee" (or whomever).

[EgorK]

Protip: Search for "Goko username: Eevee" (or whomever).

But I do not want to read just eevee, but talk about him as well

[Witherweaver]

Protip: Search for "Goko username: Eevee" (or whomever).

But I do not want to read just eevee, but talk about him as well

Ah, well, his fault for being quotable. 

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 2.1

sudgy (3): Hydrad, silverspawn, 2.71828
XerxesPraelor (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (6): A Drowned Kernel, Axxle2, sudgy, EgorK, Teproc, XerxesPraelor

Day 2 ends at 12pm FT on October 29th.

[2.71828.....]

I'm going to be out of the country for about a week and a half starting tomorrow, so I'll be pretty VLA.

Axxle2 isn't getting back until the 27th or so I guess?  The actual deadline is the 29th, so if we want any input from him we will have to wait the entire day probably.  So if ADK shoots on Friday (which is in 2 days) then Axxle2 would not have gotten back by then.  When I first posted about making the day shorter I hadn't realized that Axxle2 would be gone almost until the end of the day and I hate for him to miss an entire day.  Ultimately the decision is ADK's but I think it would be beneficial for us to wait until Axxle2 gets back to end the day.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I didn't realize he would be gone so long either. We can wait out the whole day, later days can always be shorter if that's what people want.

Oh, and vote: Hydrad because I feel like it.

[Hydrad]

I didn't realize he would be gone so long either. We can wait out the whole day, later days can always be shorter if that's what people want.

Oh, and vote: Hydrad because I feel like it.

well that worries me slightly...

[Teproc]

Well this game still exists. I'll reread some time this week-end, or maybe tomorrow.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hey people should post some stuff. I still think WW's kind of scummy. So is Hydrad. Someone want to convince me not to shoot one of them?

[Hydrad]

Hey people should post some stuff. I still think WW's kind of scummy. So is Hydrad. Someone want to convince me not to shoot one of them?

well I think you shouldn't shoot me as i'm not scum. But I kinda understand as I wasn't on the eevee wagon. But if you think me and WW are scum do you think I would bus my partner like that and almost have him killed? Although I guess If I was scum it was either eevee or WW so in your mind I would be bussing my partner either way?

If that was the case I think scum would of all just jumped on eevee's wagon to get more cred if the only other option was another scum buddy.

Thats why I think WW is town. Although I guess I don't really know how to defend myself :/

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why do you think WW is town?

[Hydrad]

Why do you think WW is town?

I guess because he bussed eevee day 1 has a big part. And it wasn't really at a scummy time to jump on to eevee's wagon if I remember correctly. I do realize scum can easily setup bussing in this setup but I also think scum really does not want to get shot day 1. we get a ton of pressure off by hitting scum there so I think very few scum was actually bussing eevee there. At most I would say 1 person but I kinda even doubt that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I guess because he bussed eevee day 1 has a big part.

If this was anyone else I would call "scumslip" on this...

[Hydrad]

I guess because he bussed eevee day 1 has a big part.

If this was anyone else I would call "scumslip" on this...

I actually had to read that like 4 times to even figure out what you were talking about. I guess I use the term "bussing" incorrectly. my bad.

[Teproc]

I guess because he bussed eevee day 1 has a big part.

If this was anyone else I would call "scumslip" on this...

I'm actually getting a big feeling that Hydrad and WW were partners with Eevee from the way his last few posts have been worded.

Again, need to reread though.

[Hydrad]

So WW. What do you think of us being a scumteam?

[Witherweaver]

I guess because he bussed eevee day 1 has a big part.

If this was anyone else I would call "scumslip" on this...

I'm actually getting a big feeling that Hydrad and WW were partners with Eevee from the way his last few posts have been worded.

Again, need to reread though.

Sweet!  Vote: Hydrad

[Witherweaver]

So WW. What do you think of us being a scumteam?

Is our other partner XP?

[Hydrad]

So WW. What do you think of us being a scumteam?

Is our other partner XP?

Thats what I think. XP or sudgy. They are pretty equal.

[Witherweaver]

I have no read on Sudgy. 

[Hydrad]

I have no read on Sudgy.

Me neither. But I find it weird how other people were complaining about lurkers but when they named names sudgy was almost never brought up. my thought could be that scum didn't want to even point to sudgy so that he would stay off the radar? Thats where my sudgy thoughts are coming in.

[Teproc]

sudgy was brought up, multiple times after Eevee's lynch.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah.  On the contrary, Sudgy getting automatically jumped on suggests he's more likely to be town.

[Hydrad]

sudgy was brought up, multiple times after Eevee's lynch.

Yes. But I'm meaning during day 1 it seems like he was just sliding by. Hes not anymore because I think hes scum and want to get ADK to shoot him so I'm bringing him up almost every other post.

[Teproc]

Stop making sense WW, it's annoying.

[Hydrad]

Yeah.  On the contrary, Sudgy getting automatically jumped on suggests he's more likely to be town.

I think its just me and SS on sudgy. And I'm the only one really pushing it. SS just kinda hopped on saying he wanted a lurker lynch

[Witherweaver]

sudgy was brought up, multiple times after Eevee's lynch.

Yes. But I'm meaning during day 1 it seems like he was just sliding by. Hes not anymore because I think hes scum and want to get ADK to shoot him so I'm bringing him up almost every other post.

I have no read on Sudgy.

Me neither. But I find it weird how other people were complaining about lurkers but when they named names sudgy was almost never brought up. my thought could be that scum didn't want to even point to sudgy so that he would stay off the radar? Thats where my sudgy thoughts are coming in.

?

[Hydrad]

sudgy was brought up, multiple times after Eevee's lynch.

Yes. But I'm meaning during day 1 it seems like he was just sliding by. Hes not anymore because I think hes scum and want to get ADK to shoot him so I'm bringing him up almost every other post.

I have no read on Sudgy.

Me neither. But I find it weird how other people were complaining about lurkers but when they named names sudgy was almost never brought up. my thought could be that scum didn't want to even point to sudgy so that he would stay off the radar? Thats where my sudgy thoughts are coming in.

?

He hasn't really said anything that makes me thing hes scummy. So thats the "me neither" part. But me feeling and others interactions towards sudgy makes me think hes scum. So thats why I think hes scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

See I kind of have a hard time believing sudgy is scum because scum knows better than to lurk this hard.

[Witherweaver]

See I kind of have a hard time believing sudgy is scum because scum knows better than to lurk this hard.

Well that logic would clear EgorK as well.

[Hydrad]

well if no one likes sudgy I'm more then willing to go on XP. What is everyones thoughts on him?

[Hydrad]

actually the more I think about it the less I think WW is town.

why wouldn't eevee or scum members jump onto WW to try to save eevee? they should of been able to easily made WW the biggest wagon. eevee could of even done it out of "self preservation". Maybe they didn't because WW is also scum so they felt like they needed to jump on someone else? But then WW decided to get some town cred at the end of the day by staying on eevee?

hmm its not really adding up. It makes more sense to me if the scum team was a bunch of lurkers that wern't around for the last day or so and didn't have time to save eevee.

I still like XP more though. WW is probably in the top 3 I guess of scum.

[Teproc]

Was Hydrad this opportunistic in the games we mislynched him in ? I don't think so right ?

[Hydrad]

Was Hydrad this opportunistic in the games we mislynched him in ? I don't think so right ?

I've been called opportunistic many times. But I don't think this is one of those? I feel Like I have made it pretty clear who I want to get lynched and I havn't been jumping on other peoples wagons. These are all wagons that I'm trying to start? Does that still make it opportunistic?

[Hydrad]

I guess me suddenly worrying about WW after others expressed their concerns that me and him were a scum team could be considered opportunistic...

[Teproc]

Your last few posts really look like you're looking for someone, anyone, to be lynched. Town read on WW ? Gone in an instant. Ambivalent on sudgy ? Nope, working for his lynch.

[Witherweaver]

Was Hydrad this opportunistic in the games we mislynched him in ? I don't think so right ?

I think so.. that's kind of a quality of his.

[Hydrad]

Your last few posts really look like you're looking for someone, anyone, to be lynched. Town read on WW ? Gone in an instant. Ambivalent on sudgy ? Nope, working for his lynch.

oh nice I just learned a new word Ambivalent. I don't think I'm having mixed feelings about sudgy. I think hes scum but if no one will go for him I'm equally happy about XP also. The WW I'll admit I kinda swapped a bit on. I gave him a towny read after he was voting for eevee and he flipped. But you will see I thought he was scum day 1 also. Its just the more I thought about it the more it didn't add up and I realized I couldn't give him tons of cred just for that vote.

[Witherweaver]

Your last few posts really look like you're looking for someone, anyone, to be lynched. Town read on WW ? Gone in an instant. Ambivalent on sudgy ? Nope, working for his lynch.

oh nice I just learned a new word Ambivalent. I don't think I'm having mixed feelings about sudgy. I think hes scum but if no one will go for him I'm equally happy about XP also. The WW I'll admit I kinda swapped a bit on. I gave him a towny read after he was voting for eevee and he flipped. But you will see I thought he was scum day 1 also. Its just the more I thought about it the more it didn't add up and I realized I couldn't give him tons of cred just for that vote.

Woah, I got weird dejavu.  Did you say something very like this somewhere else?

[Witherweaver]

Oh okay:

oh interesting I learned a new word. "lamenting".

I do still think WW is scummy. but hes more on the backburner right now. I think XP is scummiest for actions (but I always vote for him to get lynched...) and sudgy also is scummy for lurking and no one mentioning him? I'm guessing his scum partners didn't want to draw attention to sudgy?

[Hydrad]

I'm learning so many words this game!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Okay but where are people? sudgy, xp, egork, you guys want to chime in?

[A Drowned Kernel]

silverspawn? e?

[silverspawn]

silverspawn? e?

sorry. for some reason, I lack motivation for this game, and haven't really done any rereads. well except rereading hydrad... in multiple games... and creating all sorts of stats about him... and hydrading...

ahm. I'll get to it later today.

[2.71828.....]

See I kind of have a hard time believing sudgy is scum because scum knows better than to lurk this hard.

Well that logic would clear EgorK as well.

And eevee, but he was scum.

silverspawn? e?

leaving for the weekend in like 10 minutes, just quickly skimmed through what you guys posted.  I will have to look back over hydrad later when I have time (sunday evening/monday) but he didn't really stand out much to me D1 and I didn't talk about him in my wagons post.

Everything else is still what I have from there.  I think WW is scummy, xp very suspicious, and sudgy my top choice until we hear from him.  As hard as it is to believe that 2 scum would lurk as hard as eevee/sudgy have done, it could very well be pulled off in a game with this low of activity.

so right now, scummy to not-as-scummy
sudgy
WW
xp
{EgorK, Axxles2, Hydrad}
{Teproc, Silverspawn}
{ADK, e}

Will post more when I get back from v/la this weekend.

[Witherweaver]

Eevee wasn't lurking hard.. he was actively trying to get e lynched.

[Hydrad]

silverspawn? e?

sorry. for some reason, I lack motivation for this game, and haven't really done any rereads. well except rereading hydrad... in multiple games... and creating all sorts of stats about him... and hydrading...

ahm. I'll get to it later today.

Sounds good! I always enjoy your rereads. (even if they seem to make me look scummy most of the time)

[silverspawn]

don't worry, i'm pretty sure you're town here. not going to make a case against you.

[Hydrad]

don't worry, i'm pretty sure you're town here. not going to make a case against you.

woo! Someones on my side

[sudgy]

Alright, I'm going to be gone until late tomorrow afternoon, then I'll do a reread and post reads.

[silverspawn]

okay, general reread. I'll do more single person rereads tomorrow or something

sudgy is scummy. I usually don't do quote compilations anymore, but this one is super short

Vote: silverspawn

I agree that his first post seems like it's pushing aside suspicion when there isn't any, and it could be planned in a QT.  I usually do RVS but I actually found a legitimate reason to vote someone right away.

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

sudgy, have you played with silverspawn before ?

Once, but I was NKed N1 so I wasn't there long.

What do you remember about his play ?

Not much weird.

Teproc, sudgy, XP, do have any thoughts on why scum might have picked me?

(I have stuff to say about the other stuff that's going on, btw, but my strategy as IC here is to hang back at the start)

Not really.  I haven't been playing much recently so I don't really know half of the people here well enough to make a good guess.

I don't think scum would care about someone's reads when choosing who gets the gun; we decided we would do majorities and with a four-man scum team, I'm sure they realized that's what we would do.

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

Actually, I like Axxle2.  Vote: Axxle2

As a lynch, or as a shooter? If you think he has good reads, then just vote for whoever he finds scummy - that way ADK doesn't die for nothing. I could see a case that he's hard to read and so a good target, though. Is that what you mean?

Both, I guess?  I'm having a hard time getting into this game for some reason.

I think overdefending is a valid scumtell.  I haven't seen e do it too much, I'll have to re-look at things.

Sorry I haven't been able to get into the game as much.  Maybe I should do a reads post soon or something.

I could probably go for WW or Eevee.  I can see the cases in both of them, but I'm not too excited about it.  I don't really see e.  If I have time, I will reread and such.

Also, I don't see why you guys say overdefending isn't a scumtell.  I myself was caught by it once.

So sudgy had some posts at the start of the game, around 9-11th, and then couple of posts at 15th-16th. His posts strikes me as disinterested. 2 votes - first on silver, then on Axxle. I don't know. Anyone knows his meta?

I have two ways I start games, depending on various real life factors: One, I'm really active and get lynched for it (every time, almost), or two, I don't manage to get into the game that well and it turns into what happened here.

I've been really busy recently, but have been reading.  I just haven't found anything that's been big enough for me to post about.

Because, I was at "shoot-1" which seems like it would be big enough to merit a comment.

When they aren't actual votes, it makes it less huge...

Sudgy voting Axxle strikes me as odd..

That was an old vote, I thought of maybe switching to Eevee but I still wasn't too sure.

We should do some reads analysis in relation to Eevee.  I would think scum would be perfectly fine bussing with four scum, so I actually think the people who were the strongest on his case are the ones who would be the most scummy.  I don't think all scum did so, but I think at least one did.

scummy things

-> first post is a vote. from what I understand, being afraid to commit to votes is scummy. so, throwing around some votes is a pretty good idea as scum, right? of course WIFOM can be applied here, but right now, I'm pretty sure voting without showing fear will make you look towny overall. and his second vote was on the axxle wagon. why? "He'd be good as a gumbearer" is such a lame excuse. sure, that's only 2 votes, it's also only 11 posts. and I'm mostly taking about the lack of reasoning here.

-> no vote on Eevee. coincidence?

-> the last post. I disagree so much with that, I have a hard time believing that town!sudgy says this. at this point, we already have >50% winrate by shooting randomly. In fact, if you think it's true that scum planed to lynch a partner in order to get town credit, I'll be all for shooting randomly.

-> the fact that he's lurking at all

-> he apologizes too much for lurking. I have been about to do that several times, but stopped each time, because I'm self conscious about that suff, and thought it'd look really bad as town. I don't think other players have these kinds of problems. I green'd all the parts where he apologized. well 3 times, but that's a lot considering his post count.

-> I still support a lurker lynch here. that's kind of random+ plan.

okay I guess that was a specific reread, but I really read most things.

XP said Axxle2's playstyle is easy to copy. what? I don't know if there's a style I'd find harder to copy.

XP is blending in. is that normal for him?

WW is not blending in. I think he's one of the more experienced players, and he's pretty good I think, so I'm much less confident with any reads here. But he's always blending in. I also don't like what he did. If I recall correctly, all self-voters lately have been town, right?..... actually, PPS self voted in GoT mafia. I only remember that now. So, maybe that point is less good.

Still, he seems different. I really remember him as this annoying, but active town player, who is pretty aggressive overall, but does nothing crazy. what is this laughing about? and the self-vote? it seems out of character.

Axxle2 I can't read. No idea if that kind of play is normal for him or not. I just think he looks really good, but he can be good as scum. He's not the worst target, but I rather shoot a lurker.

Hydrad is, as I said, town. I think. That might change though. Not going into reasons here.

Teproc is another hard one. I've never seen teproc as scum, so, not a good judge here. I think he received zero suspicion so far. But he didn't try to blend in, he was tunneling WW pretty hard.

I've also never seen scum!e. man, I need to play more. But he strikes me as very pro town, and he was pushing the Eevee lynch, so definitely not voting for him.

oh, and I really think scum doesn't want to buzz in this setup, at all, much less than in any other setup. so, vote count says Teproc, WW, and e are on the wagon before I "hammer". town cred for everyone there.

[silverspawn]

vote: sudgy

lurker lynching is also kind of similar to random lynching, which I don't think is bad here. again, if scum has a pl an here (though I honstly doubt it), we will inevitably ruin it by shooting randomly.

[Teproc]

I think XP meant Axxle's playstyle is easy for him to replicate as scum, ie his play is very similar in both alignments.

[silverspawn]

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

[silverspawn]

I think XP meant Axxle's playstyle is easy for him to replicate as scum, ie his play is very similar in both alignments.

that'd make a lot more sense. and no idea if it's true.

[Teproc]

Oh, and please say ASoIaF mafia, not GoT. There was a GoT mafia a while ago (my first game actually).

XP blending in is somewhat unusual, possibly scummy. I think WW commented on that already on day 1.

e... I'm not sure I've seen him as scum, and we started around the same time... he was probably scum in some RMM game but I can't remember it.

Oh yeah he was scum in a blitz game, I talkes about that already actually. He was very talkative but a bit non-commital as I recall.

PPE : It is true, Axxle is insanely hard to catch because of this, you have to rely on interactions.

[Witherweaver]

I actually like XP better than Hydrad.. I have to hold back my Hydrad reads somewhat because I always want to lynch him.   But I would go for either today.

[silverspawn]

I actually like XP better than Hydrad.. I have to hold back my Hydrad reads somewhat because I always want to lynch him.   But I would go for either today.

nah, let's lynch some lurkers. I dont think I've ever had a real lyrker lynch, except PPS in ASOIAFM, and he was my partner. *pout*

[Teproc]

That was a lurker lynch, some of us had a scum read on him. Well, maybe half the wagon, but the half that counts !

[Teproc]

I meant that wasn't* a lurker lynch.

[XerxesPraelor]

Okay, I'm not exactly sure why I haven't posted much - I guess I just never Fletcher in the right mood. I do have some things to say, though. Based on reads, I think e looks a little better because he's on the wagon, but I still think he could definitely be scum. WW today suddenly looks towny to me, and I don't know what happened. It's probably something unrelated to the game changing. Most of the time when I think someone's scum, they continue looking scummy till they die, but ww is making sense recently. We'll see how this goes. Silverspawn always looks scummy to me, so I guess I'm not the right one to decide about him, but FWIW he looks scummy this game too. Sudgy and EgorK are both scummy lurkers; I don't know how to pick who to lynch first (or whether there are better lynches).

PPE: I wrote a ton and I'm not going to respond more now!

[XerxesPraelor]

I think XP meant Axxle's playstyle is easy for him to replicate as scum, ie his play is very similar in both alignments.

Yup. The style isn't a town tell - scum Axxle2 would do that too. The content is what matters.

[XerxesPraelor]

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

[XerxesPraelor]

Oh, and please say ASoIaF mafia, not GoT. There was a GoT mafia a while ago (my first game actually).

XP blending in is somewhat unusual, possibly scummy. I think WW commented on that already on day 1.

e... I'm not sure I've seen him as scum, and we started around the same time... he was probably scum in some RMM game but I can't remember it.

Oh yeah he was scum in a blitz game, I talkes about that already actually. He was very talkative but a bit non-commital as I recall.

PPE : It is true, Axxle is insanely hard to catch because of this, you have to rely on interactions.

I'm pretty sure blending in is something that depends on other people, not me. Maybe people are just getting used to how I play.

E was also scum in the village Mafia with ash - I don't remember him very much there, the game went really quickly.

[EgorK]

Why people keep saying that random lynching would lead to >50% win rate at the start of the game? This is just not true, that was ~42%. I can run my program on 7-3 split to see what chances are now

PPE: some

[EgorK]

Ok, reread silver post and I misunderstood him. Current chnces with random shootings are 57% btw

[EgorK]

About Hydrad. He made himself extremly hard to read as he feels scummy as hell when he is town. I am yet to see scum Hydrad (probably this game?), but overall I can't read him

[Hydrad]

About Hydrad. He made himself extremly hard to read as he feels scummy as hell when he is town. I am yet to see scum Hydrad (probably this game?), but overall I can't read him

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be scummy...

[silverspawn]

okay, scum!WW reread

Reply 33 - asks if scum has daycheat. What a way to fake a townslip. I did the exact same thing in ASOIAFM
Reply 41 - votes for me
Reply 42 - basically un-RVS's his vote and says I'm scummy for my initial posts, where I was asking why I wasn't the notebearer
Reply 48 - makes a joke. Not a very good one. Is this a scumtell?
Reply 56 - gives his opinion about why ADK is the notebearer
Reply 69 - says he's not concerned about being shot, because that'd make him the new notebearer. Or would it?
Reply 72 - doesn't understand a joke. how cute.
Reply 92 - Laughs at Teproc
Reply 121 - votes for e because he "tries to look like he has a towny plan"
Reply 185 - says I'm white Knighting
Reply 187 - self votes, because he likes Teproc's argument
Reply 210 - says that e is town if I'm scum. I'm not scum, so e IS SCUM? oh wait, that doesn't work.
Reply 216 - votes for e again.
Reply 262 -

Vote: Eevee

When in doubt, sheep the people that want to lynch you.

That's S-1, I think.

Reply 277

I mean the Eevee lynch is fine but the deafening silence I've been getting with trying to get a wagon on WW is making me feel really good about lynching him.

Still no one ?

Well scum!me only has three other partners, so there are still six Town other than you that aren't lighting their torches to march on my door just as much as my scum partners are not.  That's twice as many not my scum partners as my scum partners.

Or it could be that I've been presenting myself as an easy "mislynch" and scum doesn't want to take the bait.

PPE: I laughed last time you voted for me right?  I think so.  I'll do it again: Muwahahahaha

Reply 285 - Discusses the Eevee wagon.
Reply 381 (first reply after the kill) includes a smiley. other than that, boring. Put posting smileys after the shot, that either shows or fakes good mood
Reply 385 - votes Hydrad, because it's about time
Reply 387+ - some legit wagon analysis
Reply 409 - votes for XP, because he was on bad wagons, and left the Eevee wagon. I think these are good reasons
Reply 439 - votes for Hydrad again, because Teproc said he'd reread him? mh.

Scummy things, mostly just the fact that he's more bouncy/crazy than normal. the self vote was weird

but he was on the Eevee wagon. I actually don't want to shoot anyone from the Eevee wagon today.

[Axxle2]

Back from my heavy vla, still mobile posting but everything should be completely back to normal tonight. Reading now though.

[Axxle2]

I haven't posted at all since then? Embarrassing.

[Teproc]

I said I'd reread this WE so... I'm rereading now, instead of playing Civ BE !

[Teproc]

silverspawn being self-aware is indeed very normal for him, which is why I was asking sudgy if he had played with him.

This post by e reminds me of that blitz game where he was scum though. Just saying obvious stuff about everyone, not actually taking any position, keeping your options open.

vote: e

I think teproc makes some good points here, but leading questions are at the very least annoying and at the worst scummy. It's not a big deal though, just something I'll remember.

By "leading question" you're referring to my question to sudgy earlier where I asked him if he had played with silverspawn ? Because that wasn't a leading question.

[Teproc]

Wait, is Eevee really in this game? I'm pretty sure he hasn't pposted

Obviously this must have some relevance. I'm not sure how much though, since I had made a similar comment about Eevee a few posts before that. I'd still count it as town points for XP, who wouldn't necessarily realize that Eevee had not posted at all in the main thread.

[Teproc]

Yea, I was VLA, just read the entire thread now.

Vote: e

I didn't so much like the original case, but his post of quoting all the votes on him and giving a lengthy response felt way out of proportion, which I feel usually comes from scum. I don't have a strong opinion on WW, self-meta stuff is always labeled as scummy, but I think at least for myself it's actually town tell.

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

This is basically Eevee's first post. The e wagon is near peak at this point, so there's already be some movement towards WW (me, then WW self-voted, then ADK policy voted WW).

Not sure. Rereading so far, I'm getting a really strong scum read on e, and Eevee is definitely the type of player who will happily bus in this kind of situation (see : the blitz game where e was scum I keep talking about). I think this is Eevee bussing.

[Teproc]

I like XP a bit more as town for his catchup posts, fyi. He can switch with Hydrad in the later pile.

I find this very townie.

Here's why : Axxle entered the game with catch-up posts of his own, in a slightly different format but still similar in nature to what XP did. I think it is a town trait to find people townie for doing the same thing as you.

[Teproc]

To clarify : obviously scum can decide to find people townie for that, but when you're scum and you see someone doing what you're doing, your first instinct is to go "hah, that guy is doing something scummy !", not "I should have a town read on him since we're playing the same way".

[Teproc]

and yea, I think there is scum on the wagon. not one, duh, that's a pretty trivial statement. My guess is more 2+. Hydrad. XP? WW? Maybe even Eevee.

Eevee in the classic scumpartner position again.

[Teproc]

WW (33): Eevee, sudgy, EgorK

"Who's not talking about whom" is an interesting point that I've never considered.  It seems the only people I'm not talking about are the people that haven't really posted anything. 

Also, I'm back to

Vote: e

Self-preservation or a real read?

I prefer e to WW/the field really. His overreaction to the wagon is the scummiest thing to me this far.

As I said, Axxle also seems to be trying too hard for my likening, but I've always found him one of the hardest guys to read, so who knows.

ADK is really towny but gee, that's not exactly helpful.

This is good. This is great. This looks a lot like Eevee and e are partners (he is on the e wagon at that point). And Axxle is town, in this scenario.

[Teproc]

We should not be lynching e. Nothing has been happening in the past few days, and I doubt scm would just let their partner go down that easily.

Eevee maybe, but I'm much more convinced about WW.

Convinced about how awesomely town I am?

You'll be happy to learn that I now, thanks to this reread, have a pretty solid town read on you.

[Teproc]

I have no defense.

.. because I don't know why you are suspecting me. Can someone help me?

You said something scummy that one time.

Yeah, WW is town.

[Teproc]

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum in e or WW. but e's wagon got high really quickly. I think thats something more likely to happen as town. I'm going to go to

Vote: WW

Also its pretty much time for WW to be scum again i think.

Eevee is at L-1 and I'm desperately trying to get a WW wagon going at this point. I'm wary of incriminating evidence against Hydrad because that did't work out so well in ASoIaF but still.

[Teproc]

I realize its not a very good case but with day 1 there isn't a whole lot to go off of. I'm going with the thought that scum is going to try extremely hard to not get shot day 1. So i really don't think if e was scum his wagon would have gotten that close. that makes me think hes towny. I guess its not even between you or e any more. I'm fairly sure that e is town and I think you are scum.

The biggest thing here is I don't have an amazing case for why you are scum... I just have a feeling.

No adressing the Eevee wagon at all. Or the e wagon for that matter. Yeah.

[Teproc]

guys, let us kill EgorK. there is no good case in this game. it has never been a better time to lynch a lurker. (I know this is also my least active game so far, but I really didn't know what to post)

I don't like the e case. I'm not sold on WW, but he's probably above readable for me, so I don't really know. And Eevee, I'm not sure. That wouldn't be terrible.

but let's do EgorK. A total of 5 posts, and about half of them about how we should kill Axxle.

vote: EgorK

Hey, silverspawn looks like a partner too ! Good thing we're looking for three of them.

[Hydrad]

I realize its not a very good case but with day 1 there isn't a whole lot to go off of. I'm going with the thought that scum is going to try extremely hard to not get shot day 1. So i really don't think if e was scum his wagon would have gotten that close. that makes me think hes towny. I guess its not even between you or e any more. I'm fairly sure that e is town and I think you are scum.

The biggest thing here is I don't have an amazing case for why you are scum... I just have a feeling.

No adressing the Eevee wagon at all. Or the e wagon for that matter. Yeah.

I think I was addressing the e wagon in that quote?

[Witherweaver]

We should not be lynching e. Nothing has been happening in the past few days, and I doubt scm would just let their partner go down that easily.

Eevee maybe, but I'm much more convinced about WW.

Convinced about how awesomely town I am?

You'll be happy to learn that I now, thanks to this reread, have a pretty solid town read on you.

Darn, I was hoping to troll you all game!

[Teproc]

I realize its not a very good case but with day 1 there isn't a whole lot to go off of. I'm going with the thought that scum is going to try extremely hard to not get shot day 1. So i really don't think if e was scum his wagon would have gotten that close. that makes me think hes towny. I guess its not even between you or e any more. I'm fairly sure that e is town and I think you are scum.

The biggest thing here is I don't have an amazing case for why you are scum... I just have a feeling.

No adressing the Eevee wagon at all. Or the e wagon for that matter. Yeah.

I think I was addressing the e wagon in that quote?

You're right, I misread.

[Teproc]

yea. BAM. *SCREAAM*. someone is about to die. although I have no idea how you can die by shooting. maybe the gun... explodes? BOOM.

PEE: oh. okay. nice!

Hm. This sounds townie.

[Teproc]

Well. After all this, I'm going to vote : sudgy

Here's my problem : e looks like a partner because Eevee's push on him looks like a bus, but e's reaction to that does not looks like he is Eevee's partner at all.

Hydrad looks mildly scummy based on diverting from Eevee at an important moment, but we've mislynched him for that before, and he seems otherwise townie.

silverspawn I could lynch, interactions are pretty damning, but I really do put weight in his post-flip PPE here.

WW is town, so that leave me with the lurkers and the guy I can't ever read.

Actually if e is not Eevee's partner, Axxle might be. Eevee talks a lot about Axxle in his posts, and I think Eevee likes to have lots of interactions with his partners.

Yeah I changed my mind (again !) : vote : Axxle

[Teproc]

I forgot about XP in there. I think he's town.

[Axxle2]

I like XP a bit more as town for his catchup posts, fyi. He can switch with Hydrad in the later pile.

I find this very townie.

Here's why : Axxle entered the game with catch-up posts of his own, in a slightly different format but still similar in nature to what XP did. I think it is a town trait to find people townie for doing the same thing as you.

For the record, I found him townie for the content of the posts, not the fact that he made them. Why? That I dont remember.

[Teproc]

I like XP a bit more as town for his catchup posts, fyi. He can switch with Hydrad in the later pile.

I find this very townie.

Here's why : Axxle entered the game with catch-up posts of his own, in a slightly different format but still similar in nature to what XP did. I think it is a town trait to find people townie for doing the same thing as you.

For the record, I found him townie for the content of the posts, not the fact that he made them. Why? That I dont remember.

That's good, because it debunks a reason I had to find townie, which I appreciate since I'm now voting for you.

Thanks !

[Axxle2]

Boo...

[Hydrad]

Well. After all this, I'm going to vote : sudgy

Here's my problem : e looks like a partner because Eevee's push on him looks like a bus, but e's reaction to that does not looks like he is Eevee's partner at all.

Hydrad looks mildly scummy based on diverting from Eevee at an important moment, but we've mislynched him for that before, and he seems otherwise townie.

silverspawn I could lynch, interactions are pretty damning, but I really do put weight in his post-flip PPE here.

WW is town, so that leave me with the lurkers and the guy I can't ever read.

Actually if e is not Eevee's partner, Axxle might be. Eevee talks a lot about Axxle in his posts, and I think Eevee likes to have lots of interactions with his partners.

Yeah I changed my mind (again !) : vote : Axxle

Just wondering. Is the guy you can't ever read axxle?

[Teproc]

In this case, yes.

[Hydrad]

In this case, yes.

hmm. that kinda makes me doubt your vote a bit on axxle if you say hes the guy you can never read. Honestly it almost sounds like you could be scum trying to setup a mislynch and then going back and saying that you can never read him as your excuse.

[Teproc]

For my defense I didn't think I would end up voting Axxle when I wrote that. Obviously that doesn't do much for you since I could easily be lying but there you go.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yay, people are talking. Keep doing that.

[Hydrad]

and suddenly everything is quiet...

[2.71828.....]

yeah.  I just got back from work, will start rereading and put some thoughts down.  We need to shoot by tomorrow, right?

[Hydrad]

yeah.  I just got back from work, will start rereading and put some thoughts down.  We need to shoot by tomorrow, right?

uh maybe. Is 12PM afternoon or midnight... I think its afternoon. But really its up to adk and when hes available.

[XerxesPraelor]

Yay, people are talking. Keep doing that.

And then everyone stops.

[XerxesPraelor]

Town read on teproc for starting up conversation, scum points for silverspawn for focusing in on the lurkers so much when he says he has other strong reads, town points for EgorK for coming back and posting a few more times, scum points for EgorK for promptly leaving again (it looks like he feels he needs to post but doesn't actually want to), town points for silverspawn for that weird ww reread, more town points for teproc for strong pro-town content, scum points for silverspawn for a really bad case on sudgy, scum points for sudgy for not posting at all, and finally scum points for ww for not actually giving much content, though plenty of posts.

Day2 reread done!

[Hydrad]

Town read on teproc for starting up conversation, scum points for silverspawn for focusing in on the lurkers so much when he says he has other strong reads, town points for EgorK for coming back and posting a few more times, scum points for EgorK for promptly leaving again (it looks like he feels he needs to post but doesn't actually want to), town points for silverspawn for that weird ww reread, more town points for teproc for strong pro-town content, scum points for silverspawn for a really bad case on sudgy, scum points for sudgy for not posting at all, and finally scum points for ww for not actually giving much content, though plenty of posts.

Day2 reread done!

Just curious. You seem to have left me out of the day2 reread. I don't really mind. But just thought that was interseting.

[XerxesPraelor]

As you can see it wasn't a go-through-everyone post like silverspawn did - I just went backward and noted everything that stood out to me. I can do a reread of you if you want that, though, I think you're somewhat scummy, so maybe it'll help you.

[Hydrad]

As you can see it wasn't a go-through-everyone post like silverspawn did - I just went backward and noted everything that stood out to me. I can do a reread of you if you want that, though, I think you're somewhat scummy, so maybe it'll help you.

no thats fine. If its just the fact that I didn't stand out to you I understand I just found it kinda interesting. Your free to do a reread if you want though! any kinda of reread is useful I think.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Deadline is Wednesday at noon forum time, I'll be busy again then so I'll shoot an hour before that.

[silverspawn]

did I say I have other strong reads? I don't remember. Except hydrad. but that's because I'm a specialist.

[Hydrad]

did I say I have other strong reads? I don't remember. Except hydrad. but that's because I'm a specialist.

a specialist? what do you mean by that?

[silverspawn]

did I say I have other strong reads? I don't remember. Except hydrad. but that's because I'm a specialist.

a specialist? what do you mean by that?

it means that I thought it'd be fun to focus on one player and really analyze his playstyle, and I chose you. so I'm now the best player to ask for your alignment in every game. hehehe. and whenever you're scum, I will know. I WILL KNOW.

I'm not really certain for this game, but I'll get there. Right now, I think you're town, despite the not so great wagon history.

[2.71828.....]

Hydrad reread:

D1
Joins in the theory discussion at the beginning of the game.  One point that he makes twice is that scum can have a big impact on voting because they have (had) 4 people.  His conclusion is that "It might be better to just ignore votes and stuff."  I think this attitude could go either way, especially if hydrad is town and wants to set himself up to just shoot whoever he wants to.  So null based on the theory stuff.

Votes for me based on a gut feeling that either myself or WW is scum, and after a coin flip landed on me.  (not really, that is just my editorial).  However, after my wagon shoots up quickly jumps off and goes to WW.  Still the gut feeling, but adds his little joke about it being time for WW to be scum again.  He then re-emphasizes that he really doesn't have a case on WW, just a gut feeling.

He throws out that he would be willing to vote for sudgy

His only real post about eevee:

I still like WW the most out of these options. I don't really have a read on eevee though. Most games he seems really null for me.

And that is it for D1.  I get a relatively towny vibe overall, mostly because of his WW and e votes.  I just really don't see scum voting based on "gut feelings" and not really going into depth about it.  However, if sudgy flips scum, I would think Hydrad is much scummier.  He gave eevee a null read, and a casual "might vote sudgy" on D1 when sudgy wasn't really too seriously considered.  Staying neutral on eevee could easily be scum trying to avoid getting their partner lynched, but I just don't really see all of the "gut feeling" votes coming from scum

D2
MUCH more active D2.  But here we go.

Opens up with a sudgy vote and saying that WW is townier.

Then we get this interesting tidbit:

wait does mafia have daychat then if there are no nights? I don't see any mention of this in the first few posts.

Is this town!Hydrad who hasn't paid attention, or scum!Hydrad who is trying to manipulate town?  Right now I lean manipulative scum, but I just haven't ever seen Hydrad use that kind of manipulation before.

States that sudgy and xp are his top scumreads right now (after the shift away from WW).  But then tells xp that he thinks he is towny except for his voting record?  So very hedgy there, but still maintaining that he thinks xp is scum (would think hydrad is much scummier if xp flips scum)

States the same concern he had about the sudgy wagon that he voiced about my wagon, so that is consistent at least.  Except he doesn't switch his vote away from sudgy to xp like he switched away from me to WW.  Again, if xp is scum, I will be very suspicious of hydrad.

Gives an interesting "defense" as to why he ended up off wagon at the end of D1.  Basically, scum should have bussed, I didn't bus, so I am not scum.  But then he says he has a town read on WW because he bussed eevee, except he had just stated that he thought scum would be bussing.  Which way is it?

Gives a null on sudgy.  Except he is still voting for sudgy.  So is it null, or is it I am voting you and think you are scum? Then immediately talks about switching off sudgy to move over to xp.  But again, doesn't actually make the switch but instead asks what everyone else thinks.

And then later he goes back to saying that WW is in his top 3 for scum.  Which he confirms his reasoning for scum!WW here.  Which actually provides more consistency for what he had been saying earlier about scum bussing their their partner eevee D1. 

Then says Teproc is being scummy for trying to set up a mislynch then be able to back off it later when it comes through.

Also, hroughout the day he has some interesting tidbits that rub me the wrong way.  Like  "and yes I know people will probably find this scummy somehow. I just wanted to post it anyways." and "oh interesting I learned a new word. "lamenting"." and "Although I guess I don't really know how to defend myself :/" and "So WW. What do you think of us being a scumteam?" and "(even if they seem to make me look scummy most of the time)" and "woo! Someones on my side" and "I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be scummy..." and "Your free to do a reread if you want though! any kinda of reread is useful I think.".  Basically, a bunch of self-conscious/fun/easygoing/jokey/quasi-serious/buddy-buddy posts that seem like a pretty big attempt at appearing towny. 


Conclusion: The more inactive D1 hydrad seemed pretty towny to me.  The more active D2 Hydrad did a few things that seem suspect to me.  Given that, I think Hydrad is town.  1) I don't think scum would waffle like he did concerning WW.  2) While the random posts I talked about last rub me the wrong way, I actually think they are genuine and come from town!hydrad.

Caveats:  If WW or XP flip scum, I think Hydrad is pretty likely to be scum.  His early abandonment of WW, then defense of himself being off wagon, then back onto WW as scum could very well have been a realization of his inconsistency and need to correct that to appear consistent and towny.  His lack of vote for xp after he voices concern about sudgy then when he mentions switching to xp but never does it really makes him look scummy if xp ever flips scum.

PPE: whew, that took a while, but I read through the posts between start time and finish and included anything relevant in my post.

[Hydrad]

did I say I have other strong reads? I don't remember. Except hydrad. but that's because I'm a specialist.

a specialist? what do you mean by that?

it means that I thought it'd be fun to focus on one player and really analyze his playstyle, and I chose you. so I'm now the best player to ask for your alignment in every game. hehehe. and whenever you're scum, I will know. I WILL KNOW.

I'm not really certain for this game, but I'll get there. Right now, I think you're town, despite the not so great wagon history.

hmmm. I'm not sure if this is a good thing for future games as if you do get really good at reading me it will be hard to win as scum. But at least its helping this game!

[Hydrad]

also one thing you said about me trying to get a xp wagon but not voting him. Right now since there is a wagon on sudgy I'm perfectly fine with him getting shot and if I put my vote onto XP then there is a higher chance the sudgy wagon will die down a bit and someone else will get voted instead. So I'm equally happy for either sudgy or XP to go down but because the sudgy wagon is staying high I'm staying on this wagon for now. If someone started up a XP wagon to around the same height then I would have to decide.

But right now I'm happy with either option!

[sudgy]

Why am I finding it so hard to get into this game.  Could someone summarize any main cases other than me right now?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 3.1

Axxle2 (2): 2.71828, Teproc
XerxesPraelor (1): Hydrad
sudgy (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (4): Axxle2, sudgy, EgorK, Witherweaver

Day 3 ends at 2pm FT on November 9th.

[Witherweaver]

Why am I finding it so hard to get into this game.  Could someone summarize any main cases other than me right now?

How about you propose who you think is scum?

[sudgy]

Why am I finding it so hard to get into this game.  Could someone summarize any main cases other than me right now?

How about you propose who you think is scum?

Because I don't know.

[Hydrad]

oh wow I didn't realize I'm the second biggest wagon. Well it doesn't help that half of the people don't have there vote anywhere. I think everyone should put a vote somewhere as we are getting close to shooting time.

[2.71828.....]

What we should do:

1) shoot sudgy
2) shoot WW or XP
3) shoot Hydrad if (2) produces scum
4) win

[Witherweaver]

What we should do:

1) shoot sudgy
2) shoot WW or XP
3) shoot Hydrad if (2) produces scum
4) win

Okay!  Vote: XP

[Witherweaver]

Why am I finding it so hard to get into this game.  Could someone summarize any main cases other than me right now?

How about you propose who you think is scum?

Because I don't know.

So read and form some ideas~!

[silverspawn]

Mh. Don't you know scum!sudgy would start doing something at this point? We're like, yea we should lynch him, and he's still like, meeeeeeeeeh I don't want to doooooooo anything.

although, it would suck if we stop killing him because he continues lurking if he really is scum. So, I'll leave my vote where it is for now.

[silverspawn]

*know think

[Witherweaver]

Mh. Don't you know scum!sudgy would start doing something at this point? We're like, yea we should lynch him, and he's still like, meeeeeeeeeh I don't want to doooooooo anything.

although, it would suck if we stop killing him because he continues lurking if he really is scum. So, I'll leave my vote where it is for now.

So scum!Sudgy would stop lurking and create a case, and scum!Sudgy would continue lurking?

[silverspawn]

uh the first scum is of course meant to be a town. another slilver!slip. at least this one doesn't look like a scum slip.

[Axxle2]

Vote: sudgy

Let us be doing the going.

[2.71828.....]

Let us be doing the going.

you just changed my life forever.  what a profound statement.

But really, what does this mean? 

[EgorK]

I am sorry, it seems I've got some nasty flu and it fairly hard to think

[A Drowned Kernel]

The voting thing worked yesterday so I'm willing to go along with it, but I do like WW better than Sudgy. Therefore, vote: Witherweaver

[Witherweaver]

The voting thing worked yesterday so I'm willing to go along with it, but I do like WW better than Sudgy. Therefore, vote: Witherweaver

OMGUS.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'll definitely look things over before I shoot, don't worry.

[Axxle2]

Let us be doing the going.

you just changed my life forever.  what a profound statement.

But really, what does this mean?

I'm tired of trying to read and not make progress so I'm willing to shoot our resident dango. Other candidates include Teproc who was a bit quick to abandon the eevee wagon when things got close

[Hydrad]

I know it's super late to say this. But I'm kinda worried about the sudgy lynch. There is so little fighting this lynch that I think he might be town as I think scum would be fighting way more. I would jump on a xp wagon if we build it up.

I know I started this sudgy wagon but it's starting to feel wrong now. I might even do WW over sudgy right now.

[Hydrad]

With that said I guess I should vote: xp

[2.71828.....]

current votes as updated by me:

sudgy (3): silverspawn, 2.71828, Axxle2
Hydrad (2):
Axxle2 (1): Teproc
xp (2): Witherweaver, Hydrad
Witherweaver (1): A Drowned Kernal,

Not Voting (3): , sudgy, EgorK, XerxesPraelor

Day 2 ends at 12pm FT on October 29th.

[2.71828.....]

oops, forgot to delete hydrad there because he has no votes right now.  The point is, it seems to be between sudgy, xp, and WW (simply because our gunbearer is voting WW).  As per my plan, I am fine with any of those three candidates

For WW it is mostly his jokey posts and generally carefree attitude that I have noticed this game that seems to be different than other games.  This is either the freedom of being town in a game that even if you are lynched you still live and get to do the most fun thing in the game (shoot people) or scum from a fresh perspective that we really haven't seen from WW before. 

Sudgy is a candidate because of his lack of activity.  It has been hard for him to get into the game, and it shows.  I don't know anything that will really fix that, and as long as town lurks, he will be fine even if he is scum.  But finding "nothing at all worth post about" (paraphrase) could easily be scum not wanting to come down hard on anything and therefore just not posting (and getting away with it because of inactive town)

xp is a candidate because of his scummy voting record.  What I said here: - XP voted on each of these wagons.  Several times for some of them.  He is also the only person that left the eevee wagon without returning to it.  I think this is actually somewhat scummy of him.  Basically, dancing around the popular wagons, but when the final vote came in he was not on the scummy one.  (that we know)

So I really think each one of these people have decent enough reasons to be shot, and am totally willing to just leave it up to ADK to decide.  I have my vote on sudgy because he is my first choice between them, but I think it would really help if everyone just voted one of these three then ADK decide (and not necessarily even the largest wagon)

[2.71828.....]

oh, and teproc is voting Axxle2, but given his v/la today I am not really in favor of shooting him.  Let's just shoot him tomorrow if he is scum

[A Drowned Kernel]

I have an hour or so before I have to shoot. I'm thinking it's going to be WW, there isn't any significant wagons and enough people have said they're okay with his lynch that I don't think that I'm "going against the will of the town" or anything. Someone want to change my mind?

[silverspawn]

I have an hour or so before I have to shoot. I'm thinking it's going to be WW, there isn't any significant wagons and enough people have said they're okay with his lynch that I don't think that I'm "going against the will of the town" or anything. Someone want to change my mind?

No, I think it's perfectly fine if you make your own decisions, and WW is not a bad target. I also think he'd be a good notebearer if he's town. That aspect seems to be over exaggerated, but it still exists.

[A Drowned Kernel]

That's kind of what I was thinking too.

[Witherweaver]

I'm townzorz.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm townzorz.

A compelling argument.

[Witherweaver]

I think XP is the best target.  EgorK, Sudgy, and Axxle are tossups.  I have no reason to believe one way or the other on them.  I think Teproc is town.  So currently alive is:

Sudgy
EgorK
XP
Axxle2
Hydrad
Silver
Teproc
ADK
WW
e

There are three scum in ten, but ADK and myself are town, and I think Teproc is too, so three scum in seven.  Silver is more likely town (slightly), and I'm starting to go the other way on Hydrad.  I was giving townpoints to e for Eevee trying to get him lynched, but bussing, eh.  So I say shoot out of:

{XP, Axxle2, EgorK, Sudgy, e}

with preference on XP, depreference on e.  Slight deemphasis on Sudgy, because wouldn't Sudgy try to be doing something if he was scum almost getting shot?  (Silver brought this up, but also undermined it in the same post.  Scumpoints on Silver for that.)  Can toss Hydrad in there, I wouldn't complain.  If I get shot there's a good chance I'll just shoot from that pool.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I feel pretty good about this. WW, if you are town, I would give a little more consideration to the possibility that Teproc could be scum. Either way, see ya!

Shoot: Witherweaver

[Witherweaver]

Okay, before you die, sell me on Teproc.

[Witherweaver]

He seems to be in regular Teproc-analysis mode, which is town Teproc.  Scum!Teproc usually makes more arguments that feel a bit constructed, or finds questionable reasons to join other people's arguments.

[AndrewisFTTW]

After his last successful killing of a Kira supporter, Soichiro Yagami found himself infused with a newfound confidence. For years, they had struggled against the unknown tyranny of Kira—with the special task force standing as the lone opposition for a good deal of that time. Yet now they could fight back. The Death Note the task force possessed gave them the ultimate weapon to use against Kira and his followers.

This night, Soichiro had stayed late at the office again, watching television while he looked through some old case notes. The Death Note was safely stored in the wall safe, but Soichiro was one of two men in the task force to know the combination. After Teru Mikami’s death, he didn’t feel the need to reveal his part in the incident. If it came out that he had been the killer, the information would undoubtedly come back to Kira—and whatever fear he had struck into them would be lost with that revelation.

Everyone had always looked up to him as a bulwark of unfailing justice—a man synonymous with the law. A Police Chief who had put himself in danger when no one else was willing to oppose Kira. Yet now, he wondered if he wasn’t above the draw of the Death Note. His thoughts were interrupted by the loud voice of a television announcer.

Hitoshi Demegawa had long been known as a verbal supporter of Kira ever since he had aired the mysterious tapes that had been sent to his broadcasting station. Tapes that helped relay Kira’s dark messages to the entire world. Still, it had always been doubtful that the announcer was interested in anything more than the publicity money he got. Soichiro doubted that the man had any real connections with Kira. Yet now, Demegawa’s voice was coming clearly over the air, spreading word of how the fear of Kira had made the world a better place.

Soichiro’s eyes strayed to the wall safe. On the television, Demegawa continued his speech, each word like a thorn pressed into Soichiro’s flesh. He got up from the chair and went over to the wall safe. Entering the combination, he deftly pulled out the Death Note and took a pen from his shirt pocket. He could picture Demegawa gasping for breath as he perished on national television while praising Lord Kira. Soichiro put pen to paper and began to write.

Before Soichiro could finish, Demegawa was interrupted by a commercial break. The police chief hesitated before finishing the name. It was as if a fog had lifted from his mind. What reason did he have to do this? This was nothing like before. He had no evidence, no records or plausible theory that this man had any real connection with Kira. He put the pen down and pulled open his desk drawer with the revolver in it.

All he knew was that he couldn’t trust himself to do the right thing anymore. This would be his last service to the society that he had worked so hard to protect for all these years…

The next morning, Hitoshi Demegawa received a package with no return address in his office. Closing the door, he ripped open the manila envelope and a pitch black notebook slipped out onto his desk. He didn’t need to be told what lay in front of him—though it defied reason that one would somehow fall into his hands. He sat back in his office chair—the overhead lights turning his round glasses into shiny mirrors.

This was exactly the big break his career had needed.

A Drowned Kernal has been killed!

Witherweaver is the new Notebearer!

Day 3 ends at 2pm FT on Nov. 9th.

[Witherweaver]

[silverspawn]

well, I think you could have defended yourself better, but at least it's not terrible. one scum dead, one town dead, that's okay.

so, are you gonna do this the democratic way, or are you just going to shoot whoever you want?

[Witherweaver]

well, I think you could have defended yourself better, but at least it's not terrible. one scum dead, one town dead, that's okay.

so, are you gonna do this the democratic way, or are you just going to shoot whoever you want?

Scum needs to defend themselves; town doesn't.  And, you'll just have to wait and see <maniacal laughter>.

[silverspawn]

well, I think you could have defended yourself better, but at least it's not terrible. one scum dead, one town dead, that's okay.

so, are you gonna do this the democratic way, or are you just going to shoot whoever you want?

Scum needs to defend themselves; town doesn't.  And, you'll just have to wait and see <maniacal laughter>.

isn't this anti town? being shot is still one dead town, even if you are town. ADK is dead. that's bad. You should have defended yourself.

[Witherweaver]

well, I think you could have defended yourself better, but at least it's not terrible. one scum dead, one town dead, that's okay.

so, are you gonna do this the democratic way, or are you just going to shoot whoever you want?

Scum needs to defend themselves; town doesn't.  And, you'll just have to wait and see <maniacal laughter>.

isn't this anti town? being shot is still one dead town, even if you are town. ADK is dead. that's bad. You should have defended yourself.

Or ADK could have simply read me and concluded I wasn't scum.

[silverspawn]

well, I think you could have defended yourself better, but at least it's not terrible. one scum dead, one town dead, that's okay.

so, are you gonna do this the democratic way, or are you just going to shoot whoever you want?

Scum needs to defend themselves; town doesn't.  And, you'll just have to wait and see <maniacal laughter>.

isn't this anti town? being shot is still one dead town, even if you are town. ADK is dead. that's bad. You should have defended yourself.

Or ADK could have simply read me and concluded I wasn't scum.

with that logic, whenever anyone is mislynched, it's not his fault. but that's not true. why did you self-vote, anyway?

[Witherweaver]

I think the e case is pretty ridiculous. If you want to start looking for scum, I'd start with the wagon.

*coughwhiteknightcough*

You know what ? I still think e could be scum, but I'd be stunned if you're not. This is not how you play as town.

vote : WW

To emphasize that this was incorrect.

[silverspawn]

well I'm not really getting anywhere.

but even from a prospect of self-preservation, being shot is not good. it means you're likely the next one to die.

[Witherweaver]

well I'm not really getting anywhere.

but even from a prospect of self-preservation, being shot is not good. it means you're likely the next one to die.

I didn't ask him to shoot me.  I even provided an honest reads list right before he decided to shoot me.  I also helped lynch Eevee.  What else did you expect me to do, exactly?  There wasn't even anything to defend against, no one said anything that reasonably indicated that I could be scum.

And I'm only slightly more likely to die than not, even if I shoot randomly.  Or it could be that my reads improve my odds. 

[Witherweaver]

I even told you guys!

I'm townzorz.

[Axxle]

Did adk ever indicate he might go rogue like that? It might explain sudgys apathy.

[Axxle2]

Did adk ever indicate he might go rogue like that? It might explain sudgys apathy.

Nooooooo, I alt slipped!!!! This was me, btw.

[silverspawn]

vote: Axxle

[Hydrad]

Uh oh. WW is the leader now?  No one is safe!

Well hopefully this means xp is gone. vote: xp

[silverspawn]

And I'm only slightly more likely to die than not, even if I shoot randomly.  Or it could be that my reads improve my odds. 

sure, but 35% or so is much more likely than 0%, which is what you would have if you hadn't been shot.

[Witherweaver]

And I'm only slightly more likely to die than not, even if I shoot randomly.  Or it could be that my reads improve my odds. 

sure, but 35% or so is much more likely than 0%, which is what you would have if you hadn't been shot.

You're right; I should not have PM'd ADK with the "Please shoot me" message.

[silverspawn]

And I'm only slightly more likely to die than not, even if I shoot randomly.  Or it could be that my reads improve my odds. 

sure, but 35% or so is much more likely than 0%, which is what you would have if you hadn't been shot.

You're right; I should not have done a lot of crazy and uncharacteristic stuff and self-voted

exactly

[silverspawn]

your normal meta looks super towny, why change it.

but never mind all of that. discussing whether or not you played well doesn't help hunting scum.

[Witherweaver]

And I'm only slightly more likely to die than not, even if I shoot randomly.  Or it could be that my reads improve my odds. 

sure, but 35% or so is much more likely than 0%, which is what you would have if you hadn't been shot.

You're right; I should not have done a lot of crazy and uncharacteristic stuff and self-voted

exactly

Exactly, because scum loves to do crazy uncharacteristic things that draws lots of attention to them and provides them no upside.

[Witherweaver]

The better issue than examining my play (of which there was nothing wrong), is what's up with your reaction to this?

"WW may be scum, but if not it's okay because he would be the Notebearer.  I mean that point is kind of overstated, but I'm going to state it again here for..... uh, reasons."

"Oh well, WW was town.  That's not terrible.  But you should have defended yourself"

"ADK is dead.  That's bad.  You should have defended yourself"

[silverspawn]

there is nothing wrong with my reactions. you are pulling three things out of context, even though each one of them was perfectly okay in its context. but you're the IC, so that's okay, you can do whatever you want. I'll explain why the posts were nothing weird.

"WW may be scum, but if not it's okay because he would be the Notebearer.  I mean that point is kind of overstated, but I'm going to state it again here for..... uh, reasons."

when evaluating a situation, it is wise to consider all facts that influence the situation, so that's what I did. I said, "I think you could be scum, and you would be a good notebearer, and because of that I think you are a good target to shoot." These were the relevant facts for ADK's answer, so I listed them.

"Oh well, WW was town.  That's not terrible.  But you should have defended yourself"

This was a 2parter. the first part was an evaluation of our current situation in the game. was that necessary? no. did it hurt? no. do people do it a lot? yes. is it a big deal? no. the second part was criticizing your play, which I don't think was very good. was that necessary? no. do I regret it? No, I should be allowed to criticize your play if I want to, even if you're the IC. the way you play is relevant for the game.

"ADK is dead.  That's bad.  You should have defended yourself"

and this one was not an evaluation of the game as a whole, the "bad" was just relative to the outcome that might have happened if you had defended yourself better, which would be, he is alive. Him being dead is bad compared to him being alive, because, he is town, and dead towns is not good. The reason I said this was because you were treating it as though nothing bad happened, since you're still alive. Here:

Scum needs to defend themselves; town doesn't.

of course town needs to defend himself, and my line above made perfect sense in response to this statement.

[Witherweaver]

There was nothing wrong with my play.  Fine, I was messing with Teproc some.  It's a game, have fun.  But my style caused a bunch of interactions, and interactions are good.  And I was voting for scum for much of Day 1, including the shoot itself.  Just about all of Day 1 if e ends up being scum. And I still think XP is scum. 

I was being a bit flippant with the "town doesn't need to defend themselves" statement.  Obviously you don't want to get mislynched as town. But ultimately I disagree with the sentiment that it's my job to convince other people I'm town.  It isn't; it's my job to find scum.  It's other people's job to evaluate the extent to which I'm genuinely doing that.

In this case, however, there wasn't anything to defend against. A decent number of people said "sure shooting WW is okay," which is generally a decent indication that it's not so okay.  There weren't even people voting for me.  What should I have been defending against?

[Witherweaver]

In fact, no one was voting for me except ADK.  And I strongly expected him not to shoot me.

I find this entire notion of you speaking of my need to "defend" questionable. 

[silverspawn]

I find this entire notion of you speaking of my need to "defend" questionable. 

I thought we don't talk about this anymore?

you have been mislynched, so someone must have missplayed. it's probably either ADK or you, I think it's you.

if you think saying this makes me scummy, you are free to kill yourself and give me the gun

[Witherweaver]

Misplayed, how?

[Witherweaver]

I find this entire notion of you speaking of my need to "defend" questionable. 

I thought we don't talk about this anymore?

you have been mislynched, so someone must have missplayed. it's probably either ADK or you, I think it's you.

if you think saying this makes me scummy, you are free to kill yourself and give me the gun

More accurately, misvigged.

[silverspawn]

More accurately, misvigged.

yes. very helpful to point that out.

[silverspawn]

Misplayed, how?

• I already answered this
• We both agreed on not discussing this any further
• I already answered this
• why are you asking this?

[Witherweaver]

More accurately, misvigged.

yes. very helpful to point that out.

They are quite obviously different. 

[silverspawn]

More accurately, misvigged.

yes. very helpful to point that out.

They are quite obviously different.

Absolutely.

[Witherweaver]

Misplayed, how?

• I already answered this
• We both agreed on not discussing this any further
• I already answered this
• why are you asking this?

Okay, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong, and you're clearly wrong.  Provide a better explanation or stop maintaining a wrong position.

[silverspawn]

uhu.

[silverspawn]

man, you need some crazy skills to be wrong with a question.

[2.71828.....]

WW, I absolutely loved that you had that gif ready to go. 

On a more serious note, we are still doing fine as town.  I agree with WW's last D2 post that Teproc seems pretty townie, and would probably have to do something pretty crazy to flip him to scum in my mind.

Also, I don't really like silverspawn's reaction to the lynch.  Basically blaming WW for not defending himself.  I mean, if you were confident that WW was town, why didn't you defend him more?  It is also a counterproductive discussion that doesn't really look for more scum.

On a different note: WW, are you going to set an early deadline, play until you feel comfortable with a shot, or go the whole 10 days?

[2.71828.....]

you are pulling three things out of context, even though each one of them was perfectly okay in its context.

I find this statement absolutely ridiculous.  silverspawn pulls more stuff out of context than anyone else I know that plays mafia on this forum.  And by that I mean "quotes without giving the hyperlink."  It is too easy to quote with the hyperlink for anyone to quote without it.  Maybe that is just a pet peeve of mine, but quoting without a link is bad.  (IMHO)

[Witherweaver]

I'm not going to set a deadline.  We should all be voting as if it were normal Mafia. 

[silverspawn]

]I mean, if you were confident that WW was town, why didn't you defend him more?

I wasn't confident that he was town. How did you get this idea? I said he should have defended himself more, that is completely independent from my reads on him. I thought he was pretty scummy (which I have said before).

]And by that I mean "quotes without giving the hyperlink."

This is a very unlclean way of arguing that I'm surprised to see from you. There are arguments to be made for why I should include the hyperlink, and it's okay that you would ask me to do that. But pretending like that's the same thing as falsifying the meaning of a message by pulling it out of context is pretty... uh... stupid? I mean, it's not even related. Including the hyperlink and altering the intention behind a quote are two different things. Unrelated. You can pull something completely out of context and provide the hyperlink, and you can take a line that works perfectly on its own and don't change the intended message in any way and don't provide the hyperlink. Again, unrelated things. One is about formal convenience, and the other one about content. Unrelated. I hope I said it enough times now, as people tend to ignore points which I don't empathize enough. So, please don't pretend like one is the other.

As for this specific case, I think it's very clear that he was altering my intention with the quotes, and I wasn't, so I have no idea why you would call this statement ridiculous. Let's take a closer look at the things he quoted.

"WW may be scum, but if not it's okay because he would be the Notebearer.  I mean that point is kind of overstated, but I'm going to state it again here for..... uh, reasons."

"Oh well, WW was town.  That's not terrible.  But you should have defended yourself"

"ADK is dead.  That's bad.  You should have defended yourself"

It is easily apparent that removing the context here gives a false impression of what the quotes really mean. The last quote is presented as if it contradicts with the second one. But it doesn't, because the second one was directed to the current game situation, and the last one was in comparison to the situation that we'd have now hadn't ADK shot WW. So, these were pulled out of context, and they changed their apparent meaning by being pulled out of context. Which is what I was saying. So, what I was saying was clearly justified.

Now let's look at my post. I was just requoting the exact 3 messages you see above, and explained for every one of them why they did in fact make sense in the situation where they happened. I basically provided the context he left out for each one of them.

Long story short: he was pulling stuff out of context, I wasn't. Which is what I said.

Of course, you could make an argument that I did pull stuff out of context before (i.e. earlier in this game or another), and that this is the reason why I am not allowed to criticize WW if he does the same thing. But, if that's what you wanted to say, then provide some examples. You can't just say: "don't criticize WW for that, you're worse," without giving any sort of explanation for why I am worse. The hyperlink thing, as I hope I made clear by now, is not an example, because it is unrelated.

I'm really surprised that anyone is taking WW's side here, because he is clearly in the wrong. The only reason I even answered to a case like that is because he is an IC. If anyone else had made the same case, I'd have ignored it entirely.

[Witherweaver]

You've never answered what I was supposed to be defending myself from.  There wasn't anything. 

[Teproc]

So when I wanted to lynch WW no one was into it but once I change my mind everyone's fine with it ?

In any case, I'm checkin mostly to say that my V/LA is proving more extensive than expected. I am reading along though, and my snap judgement on D3 so far is that silver is scummy.

[sudgy]

I don't see why people are saying silver is scummy for today.  He legitimately didn't like Witherweaver's defense.  They got into a somewhat-ridiculous argument about it, and that's that.

[silverspawn]

You've never answered what I was supposed to be defending myself from.  There wasn't anything.

yes sir IC sir I'll go into more detail about the question which is inherently distracting and scummy to answer.

"what you were supposed to be defending yourself from" is the same as "what you were accused of" which is what kind of case there was against you. you're not the first one who pretends like there wasn't really a case against him. Is this a thing people do? Anyway, there was a case against you. If someone gets lynched, there is usually a case against him. Like, based on my 5 game experience. Even e agrees:

For WW it is mostly his jokey posts and generally carefree attitude that I have noticed this game that seems to be different than other games.  This is either the freedom of being town in a game that even if you are lynched you still live and get to do the most fun thing in the game (shoot people) or scum from a fresh perspective that we really haven't seen from WW before.

In short, you play different. Which is a big deal. Also the self-vote, you shrug it off as a minority, but for some people self-vote it is clearly not, and ADK seems to be one of them based on his reaction.

But even if you think the case is ridiculous and stupid, that's not a reason not to defend yourself. You are supposed to fight your lynch. If not writing an elaborate defense was your method of defending, which is fine I guess as writing long defenses can get people in trouble, then you could say that. But you aren't. You're just like, "town doesn't need to defend themselves," or "there was nothing wrong with my play." You don't even have a consistent opinion here. I don't really know what you're doing, but I hope you have a plan.

[Teproc]

This discussion is going nowhere and has no purpose. Which is part of why silver is scummy today, good way to be active without saying anything relevant.

In general I think the WW wagon is scummy.

[EgorK]

This discussion is going nowhere and has no purpose. Which is part of why silver is scummy today, good way to be active without saying anything relevant.

In general I think the WW wagon is scummy.

Was there any wagon of importance?

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm on silverspawn's side as far as ww goes. He really should have defended himself more. Still, the way he's acting in general feels not quite right.

[Witherweaver]

You've never answered what I was supposed to be defending myself from.  There wasn't anything.

yes sir IC sir I'll go into more detail about the question which is inherently distracting and scummy to answer.

"what you were supposed to be defending yourself from" is the same as "what you were accused of" which is what kind of case there was against you. you're not the first one who pretends like there wasn't really a case against him. Is this a thing people do? Anyway, there was a case against you. If someone gets lynched, there is usually a case against him. Like, based on my 5 game experience. Even e agrees:

For WW it is mostly his jokey posts and generally carefree attitude that I have noticed this game that seems to be different than other games.  This is either the freedom of being town in a game that even if you are lynched you still live and get to do the most fun thing in the game (shoot people) or scum from a fresh perspective that we really haven't seen from WW before.

In short, you play different. Which is a big deal. Also the self-vote, you shrug it off as a minority, but for some people self-vote it is clearly not, and ADK seems to be one of them based on his reaction.

But even if you think the case is ridiculous and stupid, that's not a reason not to defend yourself. You are supposed to fight your lynch. If not writing an elaborate defense was your method of defending, which is fine I guess as writing long defenses can get people in trouble, then you could say that. But you aren't. You're just like, "town doesn't need to defend themselves," or "there was nothing wrong with my play." You don't even have a consistent opinion here. I don't really know what you're doing, but I hope you have a plan.

Sorry, Silvertroll, on not realize I was supposed to defend myself from e's statement that I could either be scum or town, but with no indication of either.  I see how that is a gruesome attack and I rendered myself helpless with at a lack of proper defense.

I will no include in every message I write a proper statement indicating how I'm not scum to ward off any attacks, whether they be existent or nonexistent. 

I'm not scum here because the mod announced I was Town.

Is that satisfactory to you within your infinite wisdom of Mafia?  Please enlighten the cretins among us.

[Witherweaver]

This discussion is going nowhere and has no purpose. Which is part of why silver is scummy today, good way to be active without saying anything relevant.

In general I think the WW wagon is scummy.

Was there any wagon of importance?

There wasn't a wagon, that's the point.  There were no votes on me save ADK.  Hence vig instead of lynch.  But, hey, who's looking at facts here.

Teproc, however, was probably just being imprecise.  What there was were people that were saying they'd be okay with me getting shot without voting.  That would be interesting to look at.

[Hydrad]

I think this argument is slightly pointless! if we go back to the game I still find XP the scummiest and think you should shoot him.

[XerxesPraelor]

What's the case on me? You seems to just repeating over and over that you want to shoot me.

[Hydrad]

What's the case on me? You seems to just repeating over and over that you want to shoot me.

your voting switches and people you were on look scummy to me is the big part. you were on the eevee wagon and then jumped off it to someone else. Something that scum might of tried to do to save eevee. Thats a big part of it for me.

[Hydrad]

Also I guess I'm still up for a sudgy lynch but much rather XP right now. Sudgies wagon scared me near the end where no one was fighting the wagon at all really. The biggest one fighting it was probably ADK. I'm guessing there is no way scum would let their scum buddy go down without a fight.

[2.71828.....]

What's the case on me? You seems to just repeating over and over that you want to shoot me.

Why is everyone using this as a defense?  The case against you is your especially scummy D1 voting record.  To review that record, please reference my post here.

[silverspawn]

This game is getting silly. Consider my town read on e gone. Where is my reads list?

ah here

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

sudgy is still lurking. what gives? let us shoot him. you can also shoot e. WW would also be a good target, if he wasn't holding the gun.

[silverspawn]

Let me update it

sudgy > EgorK > XP > e > Axxle2 > Teproc > Hydrad > me

[silverspawn]

Though I appreciate sudgy being the only one who isn't ridiculous about my case. Unfortunately, appreciation isn't proportional to towniness.

[sudgy]

I don't agree with your case, I'm just saying it's not ridiculous.  The argument you guys got in was a bit though...

[silverspawn]

I didn't say you agree with it. Though you should. Everyone should. I'm so obviously in the right that everyone who doesn't gets scum points.

[Witherweaver]

I didn't say you agree with it. Though you should. Everyone should. I'm so obviously in the right that everyone who doesn't gets scum points.

Is saying stupid things part of some strategy here?

[silverspawn]

you can shoot me if you want, then you're largely responsible for the deaths of two towns, and make a valid effort for the LVP award.

[Witherweaver]

you can shoot me if you want, then you're largely responsible for the deaths of two towns, and make a valid effort for the LVP award.

So yes?

[Witherweaver]

And why do you keep saying that?

[silverspawn]

And why do you keep saying that?

Saying what? I can't believe that you're still trying to force me into having conversation with you, but happy your way.

[silverspawn]

you can shoot me if you want, then you're largely responsible for the deaths of two towns, and make a valid effort for the LVP award.

So yes?

No.

[Witherweaver]

And why do you keep saying that?

Saying what? I can't believe that you're still trying to force me into having conversation with you, but happy your way.

The only that of interest, obviously.  The "go ahead and shoot me" card.

[Witherweaver]

Well you can answer the other that, too, but I'm assuming you're not going to admit whether you're genuinely disillusioned, are simply being a troll, or have some ulterior motive.

[Hydrad]

just wondering WW. are you going to be following the voting policy or are you keeping that to yourself?

[Witherweaver]

I already said people should be voting.

[silverspawn]

you're making no sense again. that's the first time I say it. You said "why do you keep saying that".

[silverspawn]

And as for the reason I said it, I thought you were being offensive, so I was being offensive too.

[Witherweaver]

I find this entire notion of you speaking of my need to "defend" questionable. 

I thought we don't talk about this anymore?

you have been mislynched, so someone must have missplayed. it's probably either ADK or you, I think it's you.

if you think saying this makes me scummy, you are free to kill yourself and give me the gun

[silverspawn]

Okay, you were right, I did say it before. Didn't remember that. How does it feel, to be right for the first time? <.<

[silverspawn]

I should probably mention that I'm a little bit sick and pretty tired right now, so that might shorten my patience. not that that changes much though.

[Witherweaver]

Well that probably rules out some of the more interesting cases.

[Hydrad]

also I really do think that the gunbearer should at least have doublevoting privledges. as your the only one we know is town

[EgorK]

also I really do think that the gunbearer should at least have doublevoting privledges. as your the only one we know is town

Well, notebearer can shoot whoever he likes even if he said he would follow town, so point is moot

[Hydrad]

also I really do think that the gunbearer should at least have doublevoting privledges. as your the only one we know is town

Well, notebearer can shoot whoever he likes even if he said he would follow town, so point is moot

fair enough. I guess I just mean If you decide to follow who people are voting for you should give yourself some sort of voting power alos. If the notebearer completely doesn't count themselves for voting power it makes scum a bit stronger influence on whats happening.

[2.71828.....]

Hey, lets keep arguing among all the townies, let the scum slip under the radar, and then WW can be awesome and shoot scum. 

Sounds good?

vote: sudgy

[Teproc]

Still can't contribute much, but silver and WW really need to let this go, we are spending way too much time discussing things that are completely irrelevant.

Right now the only person I definitely wouldn't shoot is Hydrad. Where is Axxle, is he V/LA ?

[XerxesPraelor]

Silverspawn is acting annoying, so I have to work hard to not have a scum read him - I'll reread him, I think.

Sudgy is also fine for me.

[Hydrad]

Still can't contribute much, but silver and WW really need to let this go, we are spending way too much time discussing things that are completely irrelevant.

Right now the only person I definitely wouldn't shoot is Hydrad. Where is Axxle, is he V/LA ?

yesss people are on my side this game! I'm going to savour this moment while it lasts.

anyways it looks like today is between XP and sudgy again. But I'm feeling better about XP as his wagon seems to be harder to get started so I feel like scum might be trying to push sudgy to get a misshot.

[2.71828.....]

Ok.  We need to do stuff.  So everyone post, ok? 

WW, when are you going to shoot?

[Hydrad]

Ok.  We need to do stuff.  So everyone post, ok? 

WW, when are you going to shoot?

I think WW set no deadline if I remember correctly.

[2.71828.....]

Ok.  We need to do stuff.  So everyone post, ok? 

WW, when are you going to shoot?

I think WW set no deadline if I remember correctly.

yeah, that is why I am asking.

[2.71828.....]

Hi, I am e, and I am irrational.  Yesterday I posted in this game asking WW a question.  Well, that question wasn't answered.  Before that I voted for sudgy.  I think he could be scum.  Although he might not be!  We will never know unless we shoot him, because he doesn't seem to be posting. In fact, most people aren't posting.  Where is Axxle2, again? 

Hydrad says the shot today is between xp and sudgy.  How about we change that to between Hydrad and Axxle2?  I don't know, but I am feeling adventurous today.

So I will switch to vote: Axxle2

[2.71828.....]

Can we prod: Witherweaver, Teproc, silverspawn, XerxesPraelor, sudgy, Axxle2, and EgorK

[2.71828.....]

But good job Hydrad!  you posted in the last 24 hours so I can't request a prod on you!

[2.71828.....]

Here is another plan:  No one respond to the prods, and then everyone is mod-killed except me, and town wins!

It would be a pretty lame win, but a win's a win, right?

[Teproc]

Finally back from V/LA !

I'm going to reread the WW wagon now. I know, not a wagon, but whatever, bunch of people said they were fine with his lynch.

[2.71828.....]

Oh, yeah, Teproc was v/la.  delete the prod request on him

[Teproc]

Meh, there really wasn't as much as I remembered. It's mostly ADK and e, then silver saying he's okay with that.

I'm not sure baout e but since he's not letting the game die off I'm not sure I want to lynch him today.

I still think our best lynch is Axxle. He was V/LA, came back and... nothing ? That's scum seeing the game is dead and figuring he can just coast off. sudgy has at least been consistenc in his lurking, but Axxle was active on day 1.

If not Axxle, my second choice would be silverspawn. He is largely responsible for the fact that this day 3 has been completely wasted, and I think town!silver would be aware of how ridiculously counterproductive this whole discussion has been and stop it much earlier.

[Teproc]

vote : Axxle

I also wouldn't oppose a sudgy lynch, but I much prefer Axxle or silverspawn.

[silverspawn]

Can we prod: Witherweaver, Teproc, silverspawn, XerxesPraelor, sudgy, Axxle2, and EgorK

you don't need to prod me, I am here. But nothing is happening, and I don't think it's my job to make something happen.

[Teproc]

Can we prod: Witherweaver, Teproc, silverspawn, XerxesPraelor, sudgy, Axxle2, and EgorK

you don't need to prod me, I am here. But nothing is happening, and I don't think it's my job to make something happen.

That's because you're scum.

Any townie's job in this situation is to make things happen, I can't see how that's not obvious to you.

[silverspawn]

and I think town!silver would be aware of how ridiculously counterproductive this whole discussion has been and stop it much earlier.

Here is the thing though, I'm not responsible for how the discussion is going if WW starts it. He is the leader. If he keeps pushing it, I keep responding. Why contradict something that the IC thinks is a good idea?

I think saying I'm scum because of that is extremely... I almost want to say unfair, though I'm not, because that's whining. So I'll say stupid instead. It's stupid.

[Teproc]

I also think WW is wrong in continuing to participate, but he's an IC so that's just him being wrong.

Seriously, what good did you expect would come of trying to assign blame to an IC for being lynched ? That's a discussion that has no bearing on this game any way it goes, and it ended up taking over the day.

[Teproc]

I should say "was" since it appears to thankfully be over.

[silverspawn]

I also think WW is wrong in continuing to participate, but he's an IC so that's just him being wrong.

Seriously, what good did you expect would come of trying to assign blame to an IC for being lynched ? That's a discussion that has no bearing on this game any way it goes, and it ended up taking over the day.

It was just a comment. It would not have been more than a one-liner, if WW hadn't kept asking me about it.

That's not an answer, but I already answered it, and this is the more important part.

[2.71828.....]

I also think WW is wrong in continuing to participate, but he's an IC so that's just him being wrong.

Seriously, what good did you expect would come of trying to assign blame to an IC for being lynched ? That's a discussion that has no bearing on this game any way it goes, and it ended up taking over the day.

It was just a comment. It would not have been more than a one-liner, if WW hadn't kept asking me about it.

That's not an answer, but I already answered it, and this is the more important part.

And now you can join us in shooting Axxle2!

[XerxesPraelor]

Post post post.

Silverspawn looks really scummy, so I'll reread him.

Axxle2 shot wouldn't be that bad.

[silverspawn]

And now you can join us in shooting Axxle2!

I don't think there is an "us". WW has never said how he determines his target, I think he'll just shoot whoever he wants.

[Teproc]

I'm going to act as if we werlynching because that's the only way we get people to actually express hard opinions. I don't remember if WW said he would follow a voting system, but even if he didn't we should act as if this was a normal lynch, then WW can decide whatever.

[silverspawn]

I'm going to act as if we werlynching because that's the only way we get people to actually express hard opinions. I don't remember if WW said he would follow a voting system, but even if he didn't we should act as if this was a normal lynch, then WW can decide whatever.

okay

vote: sudgy

[2.71828.....]

I'm not going to set a deadline.  We should all be voting as if it were normal Mafia.

This is what WW has said concerning votes.

And deadlines.  I guess I should have read that more carefully instead of constantly asking him.  My bad.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm going to act as if we werlynching because that's the only way we get people to actually express hard opinions. I don't remember if WW said he would follow a voting system, but even if he didn't we should act as if this was a normal lynch, then WW can decide whatever.

This seems right, so vote: sudgy If someone better comes up, I'll swap, though.

[sudgy]

I still don't really know the cases on Hydrad and XP, but if I saw them I could maybe be willing to join in.  My main problem is that my doodle memory seems to be saying that they are easy lynches, but I can't remember   It's been too long since I played...

I'm still finding SS to be somewhat towny though.

[Teproc]

sudgy, are we reading the same game ? Regardless of your read on him, I'm pretty sure no one has been pushing Hydrad since early day 2.

This kind of disconnect makes me fear the sudgy lynch quite a bit.

[Hydrad]

Hydrad says the shot today is between xp and sudgy.  How about we change that to between Hydrad and Axxle2?  I don't know, but I am feeling adventurous today.

sudgy, are we reading the same game ? Regardless of your read on him, I'm pretty sure no one has been pushing Hydrad since early day 2.

This kind of disconnect makes me fear the sudgy lynch quite a bit.

I've been mentioned once on day 2 and it was just recently. So maybe sudgy read that and got confused? I'm not to sure.

[2.71828.....]

yeah, and I just threw hydrad in there because he was the one who said sudgy/xp.  As you can see, my intention all along was to vote Axxle2 there.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Prods sent.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 3.1

Axxle2 (2): 2.71828, Teproc
XerxesPraelor (1): Hydrad
sudgy (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (4): Axxle2, sudgy, EgorK, Witherweaver

Day 3 ends at 2pm FT on November 9th.

[Witherweaver]

I was going to say that I had already addressed all those questions, but then someone else did it.  Anyway, hanging back a bit.

[EgorK]

Long weekends (especcially 4 day long weekends) are not good for my magia games

Well, the one game where silver got angry he was town. On the other hand he can replicate that. Is there always so much WIFOM in mafia?

[silverspawn]

I didn't plan to become angry in advance

[EgorK]

I didn't plan to become angry in advance

With your level of self-awareness and given the opportunity you can do that for sure

[silverspawn]

If it was something that I could just do, then I'd agree, but what happened was that WW drove this argument, and I just responded for the most part. I can't plan for that in advance.

[Witherweaver]

If it was something that I could just do, then I'd agree, but what happened was that WW drove this argument, and I just responded for the most part. I can't plan for that in advance.

Stop misappropriating.  What happened was you said something silly, and I explained why it was so, and you refused to stop trolling.

[silverspawn]

If it was something that I could just do, then I'd agree, but what happened was that WW drove this argument, and I just responded for the most part. I can't plan for that in advance.

Stop misappropriating.  What happened was you said something silly, and I explained why it was so, and you refused to stop trolling.

what happened was I said something true that you couldn't take because it went against your ego, you kept pushing me, and I refused to give in because I knew I was right. And now you're pushing it again.

[Witherweaver]

If it was something that I could just do, then I'd agree, but what happened was that WW drove this argument, and I just responded for the most part. I can't plan for that in advance.

Stop misappropriating.  What happened was you said something silly, and I explained why it was so, and you refused to stop trolling.

what happened was I said something true that you couldn't take because it went against your ego, you kept pushing me, and I refused to give in because I knew I was right. And now you're pushing it again.

You're not right, and you've never been in the right in this. 

[Witherweaver]

I was actually  hoping you had some ulterior motive, but evidently not.

[silverspawn]

I was hoping the same. I even said so.

[Teproc]

I was actually  hoping you had some ulterior motive, but evidently not.

Well if he's scum the ulterior motive is distracting everyone. Not sure why you're restarting it though, it's obviously counterproductive.

Axxle has been on and hasn't posted here. He's even be prodded. Why aren't you saying anything Axxle ?

[silverspawn]

I was actually  hoping you had some ulterior motive, but evidently not.

Well if he's scum the ulterior motive is distracting everyone. Not sure why you're restarting it though, it's obviously counterproductive.

Axxle has been on and hasn't posted here. He's even be prodded. Why aren't you saying anything Axxle ?

by the way... not directed at you specifically or restricted to this game, but I honestly think "trying to disctract town" is an absolutely abysmal scumtell, in so meaning that there is no way scum should ever do it. "distracting" always gets in trouble, because people are always quick to point it out, where as not doing anything usually doesn't get in trouble. also, lurking supports the absence of meaningful discussion a lot more, while "distracting" will inevitably direct attention to the thread. Even here, where I was careful to drop more or less subtle hints that it's WW's fault not mine, I instantly receive flag for it.

long story short, I would never think a player is scum because he is distracting, and I've also never seen scum do it.

[silverspawn]

*get you in trouble.
no idea why I missed that twice.

[Teproc]

Have you met scum!ash ? That's one of his big things as scum.

Or just look at this day. Is it not clear how good for scum your whole fight with WW has been ? It's something that is basically meaningless and it has completely dominated the day to the point that basically noting has happened. Nothing happening is great for scum.

[silverspawn]

Have you met scum!ash ? That's one of his big things as scum.

Or just look at this day. Is it not clear how good for scum your whole fight with WW has been ? It's something that is basically meaningless and it has completely dominated the day to the point that basically noting has happened. Nothing happening is great for scum.

I didn't say distracting is not bad for town. I said it's not good for scum to do it. One, because my image has gotten significantly worse since the end of day 2. Man, this day is not going very well for scum!me. Two, because there wasn't really any meaningful discussion that we distracted from, it was pretty much our discussion instead of nothing. There was plenty of time left where this game just stalled, too much for me to buy this argument.

Also, in the context of this game, since WW decides whom he wants to shoot, it's really his problem.

And no, I've never seen scum!ash.

[silverspawn]

I mean, from your perspective, there are only 2 possibilities.

1) I'm town. Then the discussion was bad, but it's not my fault
2) I'm scum. Then the discussion was good, because a lot of people think I'm scum now.

[Teproc]

I mean, from your perspective, there are only 2 possibilities.

1) I'm town. Then the discussion was bad, but it's not my fault
2) I'm scum. Then the discussion was good, because a lot of people think I'm scum now.

1) How is it not your fault ? It's both your and WW's fault.

2) I don't see a wagon on you.

[silverspawn]

1) How is it not your fault ? It's both your and WW's fault.

because a) WW is the IC and b) he was pushing the case. Why should I question what an IC does. I would expect people to follow me if I do something as an IC, even if they don't think it's a good idea.

2) I don't see a wagon on you.

no? I thought there was one. At least a bunch of people have said they find me scummy for this discussion.

[sudgy]

Vote: silverspawn
Vote: Witherweaver

Stop arguing!

[sudgy]

Unvote

[silverspawn]

come on. this discussion was totally relevant to the game. this is a game about arguing. arguing is a good thing.

[silverspawn]

and with "this discussion" i of course mean this very recent discussion with teproc, not the one with WW. not that there is any reason anyone would understand something else, but you never know...

[Axxle2]

Prods sent.

i feel so violated

[Teproc]

Prods sent.

i feel so violated

That's the extent of what you're willing to contribute to this game huh ?

[2.71828.....]

Prods sent.

i feel so violated

That's the extent of what you're willing to contribute to this game huh ?

Well, he can contribute more if he is town, because after we shoot him he will have to shoot someone else.

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 3.1

Axxle2 (2): 2.71828, Teproc
XerxesPraelor (1): Hydrad
sudgy (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (4): Axxle2, sudgy, EgorK, Witherweaver

Day 3 ends at 2pm FT on November 9th.

nothing has changed here.  That is bad.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: e

Is that better?

[2.71828.....]

you were already voting.  so no, it doesn't.  try again

[2.71828.....]

you were already voting.  so no, it doesn'tisn't.  try again

[Hydrad]

I will say that my towny read on e is going stronger. scum is happy that this game was stalling and I like that e is really trying to get it going again. I know this could easily be faked but thats not the feeling I'm getting from him

[Teproc]

If people don't know what to do this game : reread whoever you're voting for and look for their interactions with Eevee. Come back with your results, discuss.

Or, if you don't have a vote on someone, vote. It's insane to me that sudgy, Axxle and Egork are not voting after more than a week of day 3. THey can't all be scum (well actually they can but that's unlikely), so some townies are screwing us over b not playing the game which lets scum hang back and watch the town do nothing.

[Witherweaver]

For simplicity, you should be figuring who off the Eevee wagon is the best lynch.  That should have happened yesterday, too, I would say.

[Teproc]

Well no one is voting for anyone on the Eevee wagon so...

I guess XP is voting for e actually. Ok, we're not lynching e today, probably not silverspawn either I guess, that doesn't actually change much.

[XerxesPraelor]

Let's get Axxle2 to start posting. vote: Axxle2

[silverspawn]

good plan

vote: Axxle2

[sudgy]

Vote: Axxle2

[XerxesPraelor]

I was really freaked out about that being the hammer until I realized that if that was a derphammer, ww doesn't have to shoot.

[Teproc]

It is a hammer. WW, thoughts ?

[Witherweaver]

More talking should be done.

[EgorK]

I was all pro Axxle lyncg D1 when he was active because integral part of lynching him was the fact he would be good notebearer if he flips town. Now I am not that convinced in this notion

[Witherweaver]

I was all pro Axxle lyncg D1 when he was active because integral part of lynching him was the fact he would be good notebearer if he flips town. Now I am not that convinced in this notion

Not really a great reason to lynch somebody.  Also realize, the new notebearer doesn't gain anything from the lynch (he already knew he was town), whereas everyone else gets a new piece of information.

[2.71828.....]

For simplicity, you should be figuring who off the Eevee wagon is the best lynch.  That should have happened yesterday, too, I would say.

Ok.  Axxle2 and Eevee.  Both haven't posted a bunch, so here are all their interactions!

eevee on Axxle2:

The glorious return of Axxle2!

Your friendly neighborhood eevee doing what he does as town or scum.

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

Eevee commenting (in a somewhat negative way with slight "i think you are scum" setup sort of way) on Axxle2's opening posts that were massive quote blocks with jokes and reads and stuff.

As I said, Axxle also seems to be trying too hard for my likening, but I've always found him one of the hardest guys to read, so who knows.

Again, non-committal sort of "I think you are scum" type of post. 

Axxle2 on eevee:

I see Axxle got my notes from our chat session about flooding the thread as scum to make it unreadable. Nice.

Don't confuse Axxle2 with Axxle though. Axxle2 plays like an Olympic racing shoe: fast and loose.

Axxle2 replying with humor to eevee's mild attack on him.

so, shouldn't we do something to get this game going, in, like, a meaningful way?

I think... uh... I am really towny? that's my only read so far.

Shoot:
XP
e
sudgy
EgorK

Shoot after:
Teproc
Hydrad
Eevee

Don't shoot:
Witherweaver
silverspawn

Eevee makes the "shoot after" list.  But Axxle2 also has WW on the "don't shoot" list, which was correct.

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Mmmm, not really. He's the biggest wagon and now that people have put out cases and now he can respond to them. I mean I guess he could be searching for scum but that's just a bit more antitown than scummy.

Attacks eevee's case against me.  Even though I was higher on his list of targets.  So defending someone he views as scummy (or at least slightly scummy) against a case that he doesn't like.

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

If he had like one vote for him that's overdefensive. But he's almost lynched.

Again, attacking eevee's case against me.

Conclusion:

I think that Axxle2's interactions with eevee could very well come from a scumbuddy.  From putting him on the "shoot after" list to taking the opposite side (kind of?) when it came to voting for me.  At least pointing out that eevee's case was pretty weak.

However, eevee's interaction with Axxle2 don't seem like they are from a scumbuddy.  I just don't see the whole non-committal "throw this out there and see if it sticks" sort of scumread that eevee seemed to give out on Axxle2 to be the type of read that scum would put on their buddy.  Which makes me think that an Axxle2 lynch wouldn't actually be the best thing in the world.

Sudgy came back with an opportunistic vote for Axxle2 with no explanation!  lets go back to vote: sudgy.

unfortunately, now I need to go read his interactions with eevee.....

fortunately that shouldn't be too hard.

[2.71828.....]

Eevee on sudgy:



Sudgy on Eevee:

I think overdefending is a valid scumtell.  I haven't seen e do it too much, I'll have to re-look at things.

Doesn't specifically mention eevee, just his argument against me.  He is on team-eevee here.

I could probably go for WW or Eevee.  I can see the cases in both of them, but I'm not too excited about it.  I don't really see e.  If I have time, I will reread and such.

Also, I don't see why you guys say overdefending isn't a scumtell.  I myself was caught by it once.

"not really excited" about the case on eevee.  Supports overdefending as a valid scumtell, but seem doesn't think that I overdefended, as he doesn't see me as scum.

Because, I was at "shoot-1" which seems like it would be big enough to merit a comment.

When they aren't actual votes, it makes it less huge...

Sudgy voting Axxle strikes me as odd..

That was an old vote, I thought of maybe switching to Eevee but I still wasn't too sure.

We should do some reads analysis in relation to Eevee.  I would think scum would be perfectly fine bussing with four scum, so I actually think the people who were the strongest on his case are the ones who would be the most scummy.  I don't think all scum did so, but I think at least one did.

Mentions doing reads analysis in relation to eevee here (after eevee has been shot).  He also just throws out there (for the benefit of everyone) that he was considering voting for eevee.  Well, isn't that nice.  He also says we should look on-wagon for scum. 

conclusion:

Eevee did not post anything at all about sudgy.  And sudgy posted barely anything at all about eevee.  Based on these interactions I definitely like voing sudgy more than Axxle2

[EgorK]

I was all pro Axxle lyncg D1 when he was active because integral part of lynching him was the fact he would be good notebearer if he flips town. Now I am not that convinced in this notion

Not really a great reason to lynch somebody.  Also realize, the new notebearer doesn't gain anything from the lynch (he already knew he was town), whereas everyone else gets a new piece of information.

As standalone reason - yes, of course. As collateral to decision - why not? Also I do not see how second sentence of your post is releveant to what I said

[Witherweaver]

I was all pro Axxle lyncg D1 when he was active because integral part of lynching him was the fact he would be good notebearer if he flips town. Now I am not that convinced in this notion

Not really a great reason to lynch somebody.  Also realize, the new notebearer doesn't gain anything from the lynch (he already knew he was town), whereas everyone else gets a new piece of information.

As standalone reason - yes, of course. As collateral to decision - why not? Also I do not see how second sentence of your post is releveant to what I said

I'm just pointing out that even though someone would be a good Notebearer, he is in a sense disadvantaged compared to everyone else once he becomes the Notebearer.  I didn't actually think about that aspect until today started and realized "hey, I'm no closer to validating my suspicions from yesterday".

[Teproc]

You convinced me actually.

vote : sudgy

@WW : I feel the same way since I ended up realizing you were town on day 2.

[Teproc]

The "you convinced me" part was aimed at e, in case that was unclear.

[2.71828.....]

If people don't know what to do this game : reread whoever you're voting for and look for their interactions with Eevee. Come back with your results, discuss.

i meant to quote that not WW before my posts.  Teproc has good ideas.  lets not shoot him

[Witherweaver]

Should really be done for everyone off the Eevee wagon...

[2.71828.....]

For simplicity, you should be figuring who off the Eevee wagon is the best lynch.  That should have happened yesterday, too, I would say.

Ok, now I have the right quote with the right info.  People off the eevee wagon:

2.71828..... (1): Eevee
Axxle2 (2): sudgy, EgorK
Hydrad (1): Axxle2
Witherweaver (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor

best lynch ---->worst lynch
sudgy, xp, (egork, hydrad), Axxle2

I convinced myself about Axxle2 being townie after actually reading him.  Amazing what that does!

[2.71828.....]

someone else do xp.  He actually posted some stuff I think.  I will do EgorK now!

Eevee on EgorK:



EgorK on eevee:

So tell me if I worng. We currently has like 3 cases (aside from Axxle):

• e for hedging and overdefending
• eevee for jumping easy case and lurking
• WW case by Teproc

Had I missed anything?

Mentions the case on eevee.  Doesn't talk about it.

Sup. Eevee reread is waranted, through it would not be that long it seems. I am more interested in rereading other people talking about eevee though

Says a reread should happen.  Doesn't do it.

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

Wait, I lied.  He gets halfway through it.  Calls me v eevee either bussing or town v scum. 

Protip: Search for "Goko username: Eevee" (or whomever).

But I do not want to read just eevee, but talk about him as well

And the technique.  I just use the "goko username: eevee" which is why this is faster for me.

Conclusion:
Uh, so yeah.  Eevee has nothing to say about EgorK.  Talks about eevee a bit.  Rereads eevee a bit (with partial results).  I could see EgorK as scum.  I will have to see what interactions hydrad has before I move him out of the parenthesis of equality though.

[2.71828.....]

Eevee on hydrad:



hydrad on Eevee:

I still like WW the most out of these options. I don't really have a read on eevee though. Most games he seems really null for me.

His only post with eevee pre-shooting.

actually the more I think about it the less I think WW is town.

why wouldn't eevee or scum members jump onto WW to try to save eevee? they should of been able to easily made WW the biggest wagon. eevee could of even done it out of "self preservation". Maybe they didn't because WW is also scum so they felt like they needed to jump on someone else? But then WW decided to get some town cred at the end of the day by staying on eevee?

hmm its not really adding up. It makes more sense to me if the scum team was a bunch of lurkers that wern't around for the last day or so and didn't have time to save eevee.

I still like XP more though. WW is probably in the top 3 I guess of scum.

Has a very reasonable post about why WW is actually town, then keeps him in top 3 scum.  Talks about what eevee and his partners should have done more than eevee himself. 

Conclusion:

So, uh, even less about eevee than Egork?!?!  I didn't think it would be possible.  Especially since Hydrad has posted 83 times this game so is definitely not a lurker.  Yeah, he could be scum, but would he intentionally avoid eevee like that?  In a lurker game like this it is possible.  So yeah, I am going to keep hydrad in the parenthesis of equality with EgorK, but now I just need to see what is the deal with xp and eevee and whether they should be moved up the ladder actually.

[sudgy]

I would defend myself, but I can't really see anything to defend about that e said...

[2.71828.....]

edit for that last post:  should have been "even less than sudgy?!?!" who posted 3 times about Eevee, where EgorK had 4 interactions.

[2.71828.....]

I would defend myself, but I can't really see anything to defend about that e said...

yeah, I am actually starting to lean in a hydrad/EgorK direction.

you could do the xp/eevee interactions.  That would help your case some.

[2.71828.....]

I would defend myself, but I can't really see anything to defend about that e said...

yeah, I am actually starting to lean in a hydrad/EgorK direction.

you could do the xp/eevee interactions.  That would help your case some.

Because your case doesn't really have much to it.  Because you haven't done much.  After you reread xp/eevee then we can find something scummy about it and vote for you for real!

[sudgy]

When did I say I had a case on XP?  I remember saying something about being able to vote for him maybe, but never that I had a case.

[2.71828.....]

When did I say I had a case on XP?  I remember saying something about being able to vote for him maybe, but never that I had a case.

sorry, I confused you.  I didn't mean that you have a case on xp, I meant that the case against you doesn't have much to it.  And that you should do the xp/eevee reread to earn some town points.  or scum points.  or just points.  up the post count and everything.

[Hydrad]

Hmm interesting. I didn't even realize I avoided eevee that much.

I don't really know how to defend that. I just kinda can't read him and ignored him I guess?

[Hydrad]

as for rereading XP i might be able to try that later tonight. but I get off of work in 8 hours so it will be a while. I also don't have much experience with big rereads but since I still suspect him I guess its a good idea to do a reread on him

[silverspawn]

I won't reread. I'm still angry.

I don't trust e anymore, so I don't know about his rereads. But he is making legit points. Mh. I'd support Axxle, EgorK, and sudgy. I mean I was pushing lurker lynches since mid day1. absolutely not doing hydrad.

[Teproc]

I don't trust e anymore,

Why ?

[Axxle2]

I've been having a little trouble getting into this game, mostly because there is basically zero consequences if I get shot and I basically have zero power unless I get shot. Also I'm lazy. Putting aside tonight to actually read things though. I'm fine with a sudgy shot from what I remember if that's what's happening.

[2.71828.....]

if you want things to get done, do them yourself I guess.

eevee on xp:

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

What do you mean? Overdefending yourself is a valid scumtell.

But town should be defending themselves, and it's an argument you literally cannot argue against.

Problem isn't defending. It's overreacting to suspicion.

A little back and forth conversation between eevee and xp.  A policy vote for making an annoying argument?  Does that exist?  I guess so. 

xp on eevee:

Wait, is Eevee really in this game? I'm pretty sure he hasn't pposted

I saw EgorK say he'll be VLA, but I don't know if Eevee has an excuse. I'd say getting the discussion going again is probably more important than whatever you'd gain by holding back.

xp forgets that eevee is in the game.  Or does he "forget" that eevee is in the game.

[policy vote thing]

I guess I'd rank ww/eevee as better "lynches" than eevee, but whatever.

I looked for a clarification of the type but couldn't find one.  I guess he meant ww/e as better "lynches" than eevee?

I'm going to

vote: ww

because e doesn't seem to be happening and I like the case on him better than the one on eevee.

I'm not willing to lynch anyone but them. Although EgorK and Hydrad look scummy to me, I think one of those three is better because if they flip town they'll be more useful for us.

xp voices that the decision is between ww, e, and eevee.  But also having EgorK and Hydrad as scummy.  But the three of us would be more useful notebearers apparently.

Conclusion:

Not as much interaction as I thought there would be.  He attacks eevee's case against me a little, and eevee responds to him (the only person eevee responds to [from the off-wagon pool, that is]).  xp puts myself/WW as lynches over eevee after the whole "policy vote" eevee thing.  So moving off a "policy vote" on eevee to WW isn't as scummy as I originally thought (because it was a silly "policy" that caused him to vote there), and his final vote being on WW is consistent with what he posted.  My interest in lynching xp has lessened slightly.  Would put the (hydrad/egork) group over him at this point actually.

[2.71828.....]

best lynch ---->worst lynch
sudgy, xp, (egork, hydrad), Axxle2

after rereads of interactions with eevee:

sudgy, (egork, hydrad), xp, Axxle2

[2.71828.....]

The deal with sudgy:

When did I say I had a case on XP?  I remember saying something about being able to vote for him maybe, but never that I had a case.

sorry, I confused you.  I didn't mean that you have a case on xp, I meant that the case against you doesn't have much to it.  And that you should do the xp/eevee reread to earn some town points.  or scum points.  or just points.  up the post count and everything.

I asked him to do this.  Maybe I should have waited longer.  I don't know.  I mean, does scum just not do this?  Does town just not do this?  Yeah, I get it, this is a tough game to get into.  I am struggling just as much as you guys.  I spent 30 minutes refreshing the forum watching a certain-other-ongoing-mafia-game-that-i-cant-talk-about-not-get-posted-in instead of trying to post here.  I also probably have more free time right now than the rest of you and get bored and have time to do these rereads.  But the only way to get the ball rolling here is to do stuff.  And post more.  I can only talk to myself for so long before I lose all rationality, not that I haven't already. (see what I did there?)

So let's post, shoot some people, and get the game moving. 

[Hydrad]

Ya I feel like next days might be better if we shorten it by a decent amount. As prolonging them this much just seems to keep stalling in the middle of the day which is unfortunate.

I'll admit this game is harder for me to get into also. maybe quicker days would fix it? I definitely think lurker shots might help.

[EgorK]

I am incllinde to blame ww's signature on my unfinished read of eevee interactions

[EgorK]

It changes since though

[Teproc]

WW, you need to shoot. This has gone on for way too long already.

[Hydrad]

XP reread while at work. I might of missed stuff

Wait, is Eevee really in this game? I'm pretty sure he hasn't pposted

I saw EgorK say he'll be VLA, but I don't know if Eevee has an excuse. I'd say getting the discussion going again is probably more important than whatever you'd gain by holding back.

e is over-defending himself like crazy! It's interesting he continues to do it even after people specifically voted him for it, but I don't remember him reacting like this as town before so vote: e if I wasn't already.

Policy vote: Eevee

for making the most annoying argument in the world.

I'm also fine with ww, but isn't often that scum gets run up to L-1 but the hammer is hard to produce?

I guess I'd rank ww/eevee as better "lynches" than eevee, but whatever.

I'm going to

vote: ww

because e doesn't seem to be happening and I like the case on him better than the one on eevee.

I'm not willing to lynch anyone but them. Although EgorK and Hydrad look scummy to me, I think one of those three is better because if they flip town they'll be more useful for us.

Those are the posts that it looks like xp is talking about eevee. I can't give much words on this as I'm at work but I figured I should post something to get this game moving. Once I'm done work I can try to look this over and give more feedback on it.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 3.2

Axxle2 (4): 2.71828, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, sudgy
XerxesPraelor (1): Hydrad
sudgy (1): Teproc

Not Voting (3): Axxle2, EgorK, Witherweaver

Day 3 ends at 2pm FT on November 9th.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Day 3 Ends in approximately 2 hours.

[Teproc]

Uhm, yeah... what happens if WW doesn't shoot ?

[Teproc]

WW would die and we would get a new gunbearer picked by mafia, right. Not so terrible, but still.

[Ichimaru Gin]

WW would die and we would get a new gunbearer picked by mafia, right. Not so terrible, but still.

Yes. That is correct.

[Witherweaver]

Oh man, I had thought it was tomorrow. 

Alright.  90 minutes?

[Witherweaver]

Well half the Axxle wagon is pretty suspect (XP + Sudgy), so that worries me a bit.  I would have liked Axxle and EgorK to have a vote on record.

[Teproc]

Obviously I think you should shoot sudgy. Take a look at e's rereads, they were the ones to convince me to leave the Axxle wagon.

[Witherweaver]

I don't feel great about Sudgy. 

[Teproc]

About shooting sudgy you mean ? Axxle's not a bad choice then, he's hard enough to read and Eevee is good enough at managing his interactions that he could certainly be scum.

Who else are you thinking of ? I just don't think you should shoot Hydrad or e.

[Witherweaver]

XP's voting history is more classically scummy.  e summed it up earlier on Day 2:

Nice.  We are in a great position right now.

significant (people who seemed most likely to get shot) D1 wagons:

Eevee: silverspawn, e, XP, Teproc, WW, silverspawn, Teproc, silverspawn. 
Final votes (4): 2.71828....., Witherweaver, Teproc, Silverspawn

e: Teproc, WW, Axxle2, XP, XP, Hydrad, Eevee, WW (S-1), eevee (revote)
Final votes (1): Eevee

WW: Teproc, XP, XP, Teproc, WW (self-vote), ADK (response to WW's self-vote), Hydrad, XP
Final votes (2): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor

Never voting on these wagons: Sudgy, EgorK
Final votes off wagon (3): Sudgy, EgorK, Axxle2

Things to note: 
- XP voted on each of these wagons.  Several times for some of them.  He is also the only person that left the eevee wagon without returning to it.  I think this is actually somewhat scummy of him.  Basically, dancing around the popular wagons, but when the final vote came in he was not on the scummy one.  (that we know)
- WW voted on each of these wagons, including his own.  I am still not sure what to make of the WW self-vote.  Self-voting is anti-town, but it does not mean you are scum.  WW knows this.  He is also a good scum player.  He put me at S-1, and put eevee at S-2 (even though he thought it was S-1 at the time).  I am very wary of the jovial, joking WW, partly because I don't remember seeing it in previous games.  Even his vote on eevee was tinged with this humor: "When in doubt, sheep the people that want to lynch you." Yeah, I don't like it.  vote: WW
- silverspawn.  The only person of the three major targets that he voted for was eevee.  But he bounced around a bunch of other random votes in between.  But always came back to eevee.  He was clearly against voting for me, and put feelers out to see if anything would stick on Hydrad, EgorK, and Sudgy.  He also says almost nothing about WW except that "he's probably above readable for me, so I don't really know."  If WW turns out to be scum as well, I think silverspawn is good target, but until then I think that his voting record against eevee is good enough to give me a town vibe on him for today.
- What do we do with the lurkers?  Specifically sudgy and EgorK.  I really didn't like sudgy's "I haven't seen anything big enough to comment on" at the end of D1.  He has received a couple votes early on today, and I think we need to make sure that he has something to talk about, so I will join the vote: sudgy wagon.  EgorK did up his activity yesterday, I just hope it continues today.  He has never been one of the most active players, a lot of that probably having to do with time difference so I don't see anything particularly scummy about him, but I don't have any reason to believe he is town either.

He tried to deter away from the Eevee wagon at a pretty critical time.

[Witherweaver]

Eh, I'm just going to go with my feeling because it's been on lately.  I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

Shoot: XP

Other thoughts:

*I'm tempted to think Silver is town because of the argument (scum does not want that pressure), but his move to Eevee was probably the most opportunistic of all Eevee votes, so if there was bussing that would be a good place to lynch
*Axxle2 could easily be scum.. nothing really makes me think he's town except that I don't really trust everyone voting for him
*Sudgy, well.. doesn't really sound like scum. I've never seen scum Sudgy, though, so hard to judge. 
*I still feel town about Teproc, e seems town now, and Hydrad maybe

Of course, if XP does end up turning scum then e looks a little worse, I think.  Almost makes me want to shoot Sudgy instead, but I don't want to keep going back and forth on this.

[Teproc]

I like this shooting better than the Axxle one.

I'm not convinced e is town, but he's active enough that he's not realy someone we're going to want to shoot. The only player I actually have a town read on is Hydrad.

[silverspawn]

I don't even remember having moved to Eevee.

So you shot. well, good luck.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Over the course of a few weeks, Hitoshi Demegawa could feel a difference in his demeanor. With the power to kill anyone at a moment’s notice, he found his worship of Kira diminishing. Why should he follow Kira as his god when he himself possessed the same power? Yet, as time went onward he found that he thought of Kira as a threat more than anything else. If there was anyone capable of finding out his identity and killing him, certainly the mysterious—almost holy figure of Kira would be the one to do it.

Demegawa did not want to let go of the Death Note though. So he used his connections to try and find out more about Kira. Eventually, he learned of the special task force and managed to apprehend the files detailing who they suspected. To his surprise, he learned that one of their own members was still under suspicion. It did not take him long to uncover the evidence and identity of the man known as Light Yagami—son of the now deceased Police Chief. Now, in the safety of his office, Demegawa paged through the documents he had stolen, growing more and more certain that Lord Kira was one and the same with Light Yagami. He took out his pen.

Elsewhere, Yagami Light felt a premonition of kinds. He and Misa were watching television together in their apartment—part of his promise to spend more time with her. Ryuk lay sprawled on the couch to his left, eating yet another apple. Compulsively, Light pressed his watch to reveal the scrap of Death Note hidden in a compartment within. He had always planned to live a full life as the god of a new world free from evil. But, as an alternative to his original vision, he would be satisfied with someone else carrying on his work.

Now that Teru Mikami was dead, it was dangerous that Light had no enlightened successor should he perish. He looked over at Misa, her innocent face unaware of all that he had kept from her. From inside of himself, he felt a pang in his heart—a seizing in his chest that he had inflicted numerous times but never experienced. Quickly, he snatched the piece of Death Note from his watch and touched it to Misa’s bare arm. Before he died, Light could see the awareness of all that had happened return to her face. She remembered; she would continue his work.

XerxesPraelor has been shot! He was Light Yagami, a Mafia Goon!

Witherweaver is still the Notebearer.

[Teproc]

Sweet. Nice job WW.

[Witherweaver]

Hey go me!

[silverspawn]

I'm so incredibly excited and grateful that you are still the notebearer, it's crazy.

[Witherweaver]

So XP started the Axxle wagon when it really wasn't necessary.. does that make Axxle look townier or scummier?  I'm not sure if XP is the type to bus.. possible he figured he would get shot today anyway (I've been straightforward about my suspicion towards XP since Day 2) so he wanted to try to save his partner.. or he was just trying to get a wagon going.  I'm not sure which is more likely.

[2.71828.....]

Nice.  2 scum down, 2 to go.  I don't know what to think about XP starting the Axxle2 wagon, but based on my analysis of Eevee/Axxle2, now combined with XP starting the Axxle2 wagon?  I tend to think Axxle2 is town.

[2.71828.....]

Nice.  2 scum down, 2 to go.  I don't know what to think about XP starting the Axxle2 wagon, but based on my analysis of Eevee/Axxle2, now combined with XP starting the Axxle2 wagon?  I tend to think Axxle2 is town.

That makes no sense what I just posted.  "I don't know what to think.....this is what I think"

I meant more of a "I agree that starting the Axxle2 wagon doesn't make Axxle2 scum or town, but..."

[Hydrad]

Woo I knew it! Now I have to think who else is scummy

[AndrewisFTTW]

I would like to shorten the days to 5-7 days long. Please PM me if you prefer the 10 day length. DO NOT RESPOND IN THIS THREAD. Thank you.

[sudgy]

I think Axxle2 is more town out of this.

[Witherweaver]

Good thing everyone is quiet again!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting ( 8 ): Axxle2, EgorK, Witherweaver, 2.71828, silverspawn, sudgy, Hydrad, Teprox (typo but I'm leaving it because it rox)

Day 4 ends at 5pm FT on November 15th.

Flavor has been posted!

[Teproc]

Ok, rereading now.

[Teproc]

i'm in favor of keeping votes to keep people accountable.

yea but you're scum.

Does this remind anyone else of ash and pacovf last game?

The implication here would be that Hydrad and silver would both be town, since that's what ash and pac were in ASoIaF.

I doubt scum!XP would make that statement of two townies.

[Teproc]

Axxle's big catch-up posts features a lot of disagreeing with XP. Not sure what to make of that, but there you go.

[Teproc]

And by disagreeing, I also mean that he calls XP scummy and votes for him.

[Teproc]

I don't understand what's going on here. WHat has Axxle done to warrant all this "let Axxle decide" talk ?

XP being scared that people will shoot his partner ?

[Teproc]

I just realized that the terrible thing about this setup is that we can't just shoot lurkers for the hell of it, since if we shoot wrong they get the book. Wheeeeee...

The logical conclusion is that it is better than usual to lurk as scum in this setup, which is what Axxle proceeded to do after day 1. But the post itself sounds somewhat townie, since I'm not sure scum would go out of their way to say that in the main thread. Though if they were discussing it in their QT... Not sure about this one.

[Teproc]

XP catching up halfway through day 1 : town read on Hydrad, vote on e for overreacting to pressure (he had 3 votes at his point I think).

Doesn't look like a bus to me.

[Teproc]

Well, considering that ww will probably unvote, I'm going to stay on e until someone gives a town narrative that makes sense. Basically the one thing holding me back from voting ww is that he makes sense.

Now it looks a lot more like a bus, giving himself an out once someone provides a town narrative for e, which was obviously going to happen at some point.

[Teproc]

I still don't get your thought process, but it looks like I made a mistake there. That ferocity does look scummy though.

This is in the middle of an argument with e (about lurker lynches). I'm back to thinking e is town.

[Teproc]

yea. BAM. *SCREAAM*. someone is about to die. although I have no idea how you can die by shooting. maybe the gun... explodes? BOOM.

PEE: oh. okay. nice!

I forgot about this post. The PPE is a reaction to Eevee's flip. Reads veeeery townie to me.

[Teproc]

So... I'll reread days 2 and 3 later. Right now I'm thinking Axxle is where it's at. I don't want to shoot e or silver.

[Axxle2]

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

This stuck out while I was skimming. There is very likely scum in sudgy/EgorK/e and I'd say Hydrad is probably the other scum purely from this? XP seems like the kind of scum that likes to hedge his bets by putting his partners in broad "I'd lynch them" groups without really pushing them. He barely even acknowledges sudgy, and although he does vote for him, he does it in a very easy way to easily get off the wagon.

Reading sudgy, his only interaction with XP is answering an early question, joining him on my wagon, and saying he doesn't know the case against him. He's had 4 votes, two of which were in the same post followed by an immediate unvote (to 'stop fighting'), a "let's shoot an annoying to read person or get a decent vigger" really early vote on me, and then the sheep vote on me. You could say it's a bit wifom but this doesn't have anything to do with the votes being me but rather the same person. It screams laid back scum.

Vote: sudgy

[Axxle2]

For those of you at home that are trying to reread too, I did that in 15 minutes. No need to reread the whole thread (I made that mistake many times this game). Reread known scum, find a post or two to hone in on, see if anything else in thread corroborates the theories you make based on those posts or refutes them. If you're lucky you found that hidden gem and can look for the last scum later when we confirm.

[Witherweaver]

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

This stuck out while I was skimming. There is very likely scum in sudgy/EgorK/e and I'd say Hydrad is probably the other scum purely from this? XP seems like the kind of scum that likes to hedge his bets by putting his partners in broad "I'd lynch them" groups without really pushing them. He barely even acknowledges sudgy, and although he does vote for him, he does it in a very easy way to easily get off the wagon.

Reading sudgy, his only interaction with XP is answering an early question, joining him on my wagon, and saying he doesn't know the case against him. He's had 4 votes, two of which were in the same post followed by an immediate unvote (to 'stop fighting'), a "let's shoot an annoying to read person or get a decent vigger" really early vote on me, and then the sheep vote on me. You could say it's a bit wifom but this doesn't have anything to do with the votes being me but rather the same person. It screams laid back scum.

Vote: sudgy

If you're that kind of scum, though, you don't list your partner first, even if the group is not ordered.  Your thought is "don't want to draw attention to that guy, let's bury him in the middle".

[silverspawn]

If you're that kind of scum, though, you don't list your partner first, even if the group is not ordered.  Your thought is "don't want to draw attention to that guy, let's bury him in the middle".

I'm not so sure. I'd probably list my partner first for that reason.

[Witherweaver]

If you're that kind of scum, though, you don't list your partner first, even if the group is not ordered.  Your thought is "don't want to draw attention to that guy, let's bury him in the middle".

I'm not so sure. I'd probably list my partner first for that reason.

Yeah, maybe, but I've done this kind of thing before and I always stopped myself from putting my partner first.

I guess now I would be conscious of that and change it.

[Witherweaver]

So... I'll reread days 2 and 3 later. Right now I'm thinking Axxle is where it's at. I don't want to shoot e or silver.

Does this really seem like a bus to you?

Let's get Axxle2 to start posting. vote: Axxle2

This was the "vote count" at the time:

Vote Count 3.1

Axxle2 (2): 2.71828, Teproc
XerxesPraelor (1): Hydrad
sudgy (2): silverspawn, XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (4): Axxle2, sudgy, EgorK, Witherweaver

Day 3 ends at 2pm FT on November 9th.

[Witherweaver]

This caused two immediate (the next two messages) votes for Axxle2:

good plan

vote: Axxle2

Vote: Axxle2

If Axxle2 got shot and flipped scum, we'd be giving XP all kinds of towncred here, right?

[Witherweaver]

And XP's reaction to the Axxle2 "hammer":

I was really freaked out about that being the hammer until I realized that if that was a derphammer, ww doesn't have to shoot.

[2.71828.....]

Hey, sorry its been a while but I still need to look back over xp and his interactions before I have anything new to add. 

[Axxle2]

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

This stuck out while I was skimming. There is very likely scum in sudgy/EgorK/e and I'd say Hydrad is probably the other scum purely from this? XP seems like the kind of scum that likes to hedge his bets by putting his partners in broad "I'd lynch them" groups without really pushing them. He barely even acknowledges sudgy, and although he does vote for him, he does it in a very easy way to easily get off the wagon.

Reading sudgy, his only interaction with XP is answering an early question, joining him on my wagon, and saying he doesn't know the case against him. He's had 4 votes, two of which were in the same post followed by an immediate unvote (to 'stop fighting'), a "let's shoot an annoying to read person or get a decent vigger" really early vote on me, and then the sheep vote on me. You could say it's a bit wifom but this doesn't have anything to do with the votes being me but rather the same person. It screams laid back scum.

Vote: sudgy

If you're that kind of scum, though, you don't list your partner first, even if the group is not ordered.  Your thought is "don't want to draw attention to that guy, let's bury him in the middle".

sudgy's at the start because he copy and pasted silverspawn's list and moved some names around and sudgy was at the start. Putting him first doesn't really bury the idea of the name since silverspawn was the first one to bring up a list. I see your point if he had brought up the list in a vacuum though.

[Axxle2]

This caused two immediate (the next two messages) votes for Axxle2:

good plan

vote: Axxle2

Vote: Axxle2

If Axxle2 got shot and flipped scum, we'd be giving XP all kinds of towncred here, right?

Mmm... probably? But only because the 'hammer' happened so quickly. There's no way for him to know that people would jump on so quickly unless one of them were also scum. Normally 'third on the wagon' is considered a little scummy.

[EgorK]

Only vote is on sudgy atm?

Vote: Axxle2. I really think that was busing

I'll do some Teproc reread tommorow, I think he never got any attention this game

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 4.1

sudgy (1): Axxle2
Axxle2 (1): EgorK

Not Voting (6): Witherweaver, 2.71828, silverspawn, sudgy, Hydrad, Teproc

Day 4 ends at 5pm FT on November 15th.

[Hydrad]

I think sudgy is kinda towny after xp's death. I'm going to be looking at axxle. I didn't see him as scummy before but at the moment I don't have many scum reads so I need to find them again.

[Witherweaver]

Why is Sudgy townie?

[Hydrad]

Why is Sudgy townie?

I feel like scum would of really tried to get a towny lynched and fought the sudgy lynch. But everyone seemed ok with sudgy and no one was really defending him at all. I feel like scum would of tried to put up some opposition or go on another wagon. But that didn't really happen. Almost everyone would vote for sudgy without much effort put into it.

Just feels weird.

[2.71828.....]

Why is Sudgy townie?

I feel like scum would of really tried to get a towny lynched and fought the sudgy lynch. But everyone seemed ok with sudgy and no one was really defending him at all. I feel like scum would of tried to put up some opposition or go on another wagon. But that didn't really happen. Almost everyone would vote for sudgy without much effort put into it.

Just feels weird.

so now everyone is town, because no one really resisted the xp lynch (shot, whatever you want to call it)

sounds about right.  Pack it up guys, we win!

[Hydrad]

Why is Sudgy townie?

I feel like scum would of really tried to get a towny lynched and fought the sudgy lynch. But everyone seemed ok with sudgy and no one was really defending him at all. I feel like scum would of tried to put up some opposition or go on another wagon. But that didn't really happen. Almost everyone would vote for sudgy without much effort put into it.

Just feels weird.

so now everyone is town, because no one really resisted the xp lynch (shot, whatever you want to call it)

sounds about right.  Pack it up guys, we win!

I think lots of people resisted it. Maybe not openly. But I was the only one voting for him and everyone else was voting for other people.

[2.71828.....]

so then which of the resistors do you think is scum?

Or better yet, what is your breakdown of resistors/non-resistors?

[Hydrad]

so then which of the resistors do you think is scum?

Or better yet, what is your breakdown of resistors/non-resistors?

Thats what I'll look into in a moment. Leaving for a meeting in a few minutes so I won't be able to do it now. But i'll try to get a list down soon.

[Hydrad]

actually with a super quick glance I would say egork is my top scum read right now. egork feels like hes not voting much to not gain attention or be on the wrong wagon. And when he has voted I don't think its ever been on eevee or XP.

[Teproc]

I still exist, I will finish rereading at some point, and I'm aware that Axxle has some interactions that might clear him as a partner in later days, that's why I haven't voted yet.

[Hydrad]

Vote: egork

I don't know who his partner might be but I feel pretty good about egork being scum right now.

[2.71828.....]

Oh yeah.  This game.  uh, vote: Hydrad because then there is one vote on my top 4 scum candidates

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 4.2

sudgy (1): Axxle2
Axxle2 (1): EgorK
EgorK (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): 2.71828

Not Voting (4): Witherweaver, silverspawn, sudgy, Teproc

Day 4 ends at 5pm FT on November 15th.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Witherweaver has been killed!

Mafia has at most 24 hours to select a new Notebearer.

THREAD LOCKED!

[Teproc]

Wait, what ?

[Teproc]

I would apoplogize for having been so inactive but... why didn't anyone else say anything either ?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hitoshi Demegawa was drunk. He could barely believe his success since he had acquired the Death Note. He had managed to accomplish what would have seemed impossible to him only a few weeks before. Now, with the original Kira out of his way—he had lain waste to all of his rivals. Though he continued to work at the television station to avoid suspicion, his messages were infused with a new vigor, making his ratings better than ever before.

Now, as he drove through the dark streets of Kantō—consumed with a drug-induced euphoria, he failed to stop at an intersection and collided violently with another vehicle. His vision flickered as he felt his body crushed beyond recognition.

Touta Matsuda—the very man who Demegawa had just crashed into—emerged from his vehicle virtually unscathed. He couldn’t believe the bad fortune he had been experiencing lately. As a personal assistant to the Chief of Police, Soichiro’s suicide had come as a great shock to him—and now this had happened. He jogged over to the other car to check on the driver. Matsuda found the man gasping for breath, his torso completely crushed between the seat and steering column.

Then, something silver flashed from the man’s jacket, catching Matsuda’s eye. He leaned in and pulled aside the cloth to reveal a Death Note. The Death Note. The very one that had gone missing the night that they had discovered the Chief’s body in the office. Matsuda quickly pulled the Note from the man’s body and slipped it into his jacket. He walked away from the accident, whistling as the first police sirens sounded through the night.

Teproc is the new Notebearer.

THREAD UNLOCKED!

[Hydrad]

ok. lets hopefully not miss deadline again...

[2.71828.....]

Well, we all let the ball drop there.  Any thoughts on why Teproc was chosen?  I know I had a pretty townie read on him, so this confirms that he is town.  I can only guess that scum were probably thinking along similar lines.  Don't create an IC out of anyone who has received pressure. 

We have what, 5 days to choose?  Can we get a vote count or something to tell us when deadline is?

[Teproc]

I had no one suspecting me, I'm not too surprised they chose me.

Everyone should reread the flipped scum, take a hard look at their interactions. Yeah, I know, I haven't done much to help this game along either, but whatever we need to finish this.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting (7): silverspawn, sudgy, Teproc, Axxle2, EgorK, hydrad, 2.71828

Day 5 ends at 8pm FT on November 21st.

[Hydrad]

at this point I still like a Vote: egork

My biggest fear though is if hes really lurking if he ends up town I hope he will be a bit more active. so maybe its better to wait until we find the other scum before shooting him?

[silverspawn]

yes, let's lynch lurkers. vote: Egork

[Teproc]

I'll take votes under consideration, but in the end I'll decide who I shoot, and "he's a lurker" is a pretty poor argument when everyone has been lurking.

[Axxle2]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

[Axxle2]

I'll take votes under consideration, but in the end I'll decide who I shoot, and "he's a lurker" is a pretty poor argument when everyone has been lurking.

Most of his posts seem to be apologizing for not rereading. He's on the more scummy side of lurking imo.

[2.71828.....]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

[Teproc]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

I think Axxle is arguing that Egork slipped that he already knew Eevee's alignment, so he omitted the town v town narrative.

@Axxle : Sure, that's an argument, but that's not what silverspawn was saying. I think any vote at this point must be backed by an explanation of the interactions whoever you are voting for has with the two flipped scum we have.

[Axxle2]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

I think Axxle is arguing that Egork slipped that he already knew Eevee's alignment, so he omitted the town v town narrative.

@Axxle : Sure, that's an argument, but that's not what silverspawn was saying. I think any vote at this point must be backed by an explanation of the interactions whoever you are voting for has with the two flipped scum we have.

Oh, yeah. I thought he had posted that Day 1.

[Axxle2]

Regarding the votes, you're right that they should have more explanation.

[silverspawn]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

I think Axxle is arguing that Egork slipped that he already knew Eevee's alignment, so he omitted the town v town narrative.

@Axxle : Sure, that's an argument, but that's not what silverspawn was saying. I think any vote at this point must be backed by an explanation of the interactions whoever you are voting for has with the two flipped scum we have.

I get your point, but honestly, lurking on my part was a tactical decision. WW had said that he thought I was town based on our fight; if I don't post he'll keep thinking that way, and if I don't get shot, I have done enough, especially with a 2/1 lead.

[silverspawn]

and before you say it, yes, that plan didn't work out with us missing the deadline. I didn't consider/think of that.

[Teproc]

Being considered town is also not enough. it's a townie's first priority but it's definitely not enough, and you should never be lurking to look townie, that's just completely countreproductive.

Again, pot calling the kettle black, but still, that's not a valid argument. Also I find it interesting (hey Ichi*) that ou find Egork scummy for lurking yet admit to have purposefully lurked to look townie yourself.

* as an IC using interesting (TM) is actually valuable since you don't want to give your reads away.

[silverspawn]

Being considered town is also not enough. it's a townie's first priority but it's definitely not enough, and you should never be lurking to look townie, that's just completely countreproductive.

you're not wrong, but you're not really right either. we had > 50% by shooting randomly, we had >> 50% if he doesn't shoot me, and yes, I think it's very hard to get invested in this game, because of the way the format works. honestly (and this is no-one's fault, we didn't try it before), this format is kind of terrible. because you're rewarded for being shot, you just don't have nearly as much motivation as you have in normal games. so, I still stand by my decision to lurk here. It's not like it's something I usually do.

[silverspawn]

I should stop lurking now though I guess so... I'll do a big reread later today, promise. It's not like that takes long, we're only 20 pages in. in ASOIAF, we had like 50 day one.

[silverspawn]

ehhh i actually kind of skimmed through the second half. this game... I don't know. and nothing has really changed. I already made a case on sudgy, I didn't even remember that. why is he still alive. Let's just do him. am I already voting for him? dunno.

vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 5.1

EgorK (1): Hydrad
sudgy (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (5): sudgy, Teproc, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828

Day 5 ends at 8pm FT on November 21st.

[EgorK]

Hi there. Axxle question was already answered, I just want to say that I am currently participating in TopCoder Open onsite, so I do not have much free time

I would still Vote: Axxle

[Teproc]

Why Axxle ? What, specifically, makes you think he's Eevee and XP's partner ?

[2.71828.....]

sorry I haven't been around too much.  Doing the XP reread I should have done yesterday now.

[2.71828.....]

And.....I just accidentally closed out the window on all my reread work.

So here are summary thoughts instead of in depth post-by-post thoughts.

XP ignores Hydrad.  Like, interacts with him once at the very beginning saying a post is townie, then once when he is forced to since he does a reads list that has everyone.  And one more time in between to say he is kind of scummy with EgorK but that ww/e/eevee are all better than either of those two.  In that list he lumps Hydrad in with silverspawn, who has described as "scummy but unqualified to actually call scummy."

XP calls silverspawn scummy a decent amount D2 onward, but "Silverspawn always looks scummy to me, so I guess I'm not the right one to decide about him." 

XP posts quite a lot about me D1.  But it is kind of strange.  Like, voting for me, then voting for WW because he was building a case against me.  I am in his very firm D1 lynch pool of eevee/WW/e, but he always drifted back to WW rather than eevee or myself.  I can only think that he decided that WW was the better lynch candidate after everyone left my wagon except eevee and he didn't want to be on the same wagon as his scum buddy.

XP thinks Teproc is town.  Throughout the game

XP doesn't really have anything to say about sudgy or EgorK or Axxle2 all that much.  I mean, he talks about them but is just very open to shooting any of them without too much thought. 

His D2 reads:

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

His entire D3:

I'm on silverspawn's side as far as ww goes. He really should have defended himself more. Still, the way he's acting in general feels not quite right.

What's the case on me? You seems to just repeating over and over that you want to shoot me.

Silverspawn is acting annoying, so I have to work hard to not have a scum read him - I'll reread him, I think.

Sudgy is also fine for me.

Silverspawn looks really scummy, so I'll reread him.

Axxle2 shot wouldn't be that bad.

I'm going to act as if we werlynching because that's the only way we get people to actually express hard opinions. I don't remember if WW said he would follow a voting system, but even if he didn't we should act as if this was a normal lynch, then WW can decide whatever.

This seems right, so vote: sudgy If someone better comes up, I'll swap, though.

vote: e

Is that better?

Let's get Axxle2 to start posting. vote: Axxle2

I was really freaked out about that being the hammer until I realized that if that was a derphammer, ww doesn't have to shoot.

Again, totally ignoring Hydrad.  Ignores EgorK.  votes for sudgy, myself, and Axxle2.  Doesn't vote the person who seems to be his top scumread, silverspawn.

To wrap things up, vote: Hydrad.  Leaving Hydrad out of most all of his discussion was either intentional (don't bring attention to your partner especially in a slow, lurky game) or unintentional (its a slow, lurky game and you forget about people).  What really gets me to vote here is that he doesn't lump Hydrad in with other lurky people, but in a separate category.  It just doesn't feel right to me.

[Hydrad]

hmm while I like that reread to me it also makes me like the egork lynch a bit more.

Also one thing I'd like to point out is that I think I was the first one to bring up XP and stay on him for 2 days. I guess I could be hard bussing but just thought I should remind you incase that helps change your mind.

[Teproc]

e, do you think ignoring your partner is a good scum strategy, or one you've seen people do ?

[2.71828.....]

e, do you think ignoring your partner is a good scum strategy, or one you've seen people do ?

I don't think it is the best scum strategy, but in a game like this one I don't think it is a poor choice.  With the amount of inactivity that has gone on (from everyone) trying to let a partner fly under the radar is a nice option.

[2.71828.....]

Also, I just reread Hydrad (my earlier post was exclusively a ctrl+f "username: xer" reread) and he really does come off much townier when I actually read him. 

Hydrad brings up the point that he said xp was scum and stuck to it throughout.  This is true.  He was also super confident about sudgy until sudgy didn't get "lynched" which changed his opinion on sudgy and left him with his exclusive xp is scum.

sudgy and xp are scum
393, 408, 413, 421, 453, 535

sudgy might not be scum, but xp is.
555, 556, 583, 616, 618

With a minor relapse onto sudgy as possible scum, but more as a "lesser of 2 evils" sort of thing rather than a big read
619

I do find this interesting that I hadn't noticed before reading just xp:

Town read on teproc for starting up conversation, scum points for silverspawn for focusing in on the lurkers so much when he says he has other strong reads, town points for EgorK for coming back and posting a few more times, scum points for EgorK for promptly leaving again (it looks like he feels he needs to post but doesn't actually want to), town points for silverspawn for that weird ww reread, more town points for teproc for strong pro-town content, scum points for silverspawn for a really bad case on sudgy, scum points for sudgy for not posting at all, and finally scum points for ww for not actually giving much content, though plenty of posts.

Day2 reread done!

Just curious. You seem to have left me out of the day2 reread. I don't really mind. But just thought that was interseting.

So the "ignoring of Hydrad" that I talked about was noticed by Hydrad (in the very next post).  XP responds and then Hydrad drops it.  Scum has daychat to set things like this up if they want to.  But would they do that?  A better question is would they do that (create this minor little thing) while XP ignores everything else Hydrad has said?  Maybe?  It doesn't seem all that likely.

unvote

[2.71828.....]

Right now I need to go back and look at EgorK and silverspawn.  The other person xp didn't mention at all D3, and the person he cried wolf loudest against on D3 but never voted for.

[Teproc]

I plan on shooting tonight after a last reread, so... if you have arguments to make, now's the time.

[2.71828.....]

I get your point, but honestly, lurking on my part was a tactical decision. WW had said that he thought I was town based on our fight; if I don't post he'll keep thinking that way, and if I don't get shot, I have done enough, especially with a 2/1 lead.

This is really interesting, and I think it makes me lean more to thinking that silverspawn is town.  Trying out crazy tactical decisions for mafia games is something I have seen silverspawn do, and I don't remember him ever being scum when he does.  This could be different, but right now I lean town!silverspawn

[Teproc]

I get your point, but honestly, lurking on my part was a tactical decision. WW had said that he thought I was town based on our fight; if I don't post he'll keep thinking that way, and if I don't get shot, I have done enough, especially with a 2/1 lead.

This is really interesting, and I think it makes me lean more to thinking that silverspawn is town.  Trying out crazy tactical decisions for mafia games is something I have seen silverspawn do, and I don't remember him ever being scum when he does.  This could be different, but right now I lean town!silverspawn

In ASoIaF mafia, where he was scum, silverspawn "accidentally" "outed" me as his partner in twilight (I was not). He' perhaps the only player I would put on an ash-level of willigness to try stuff out.

[Teproc]

We should do some reads analysis in relation to Eevee.  I would think scum would be perfectly fine bussing with four scum, so I actually think the people who were the strongest on his case are the ones who would be the most scummy.  I don't think all scum did so, but I think at least one did.

This is a very self-serving argument sudgy is making here. After rereading day 1, I think the Eevee wagon was likely dominated by town. WW and myself, e who is a strong town read (his analysis posts don't feel constructed at all, which they often do when done by scum) and silverspawn who I'm less confident about but would lean towards town. Then there's XP who was scum, and that's a big part of my reasoning : I don't think two scum bussed here, the Eevee wagon never looked inevitable. Maybe silver, but I don't think so.

That leaves sudgy, XP, Egork and Axxle as the off-wagon people who would have two scum among them, which makes it very appealing for scum to argue that bussing happened, it encourages us to look on-wagon where our odds are much worse than off-wagon.

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

This really, really makes me want to shoot Axxle.

Town read on teproc for starting up conversation, scum points for silverspawn for focusing in on the lurkers so much when he says he has other strong reads, town points for EgorK for coming back and posting a few more times, scum points for EgorK for promptly leaving again (it looks like he feels he needs to post but doesn't actually want to), town points for silverspawn for that weird ww reread, more town points for teproc for strong pro-town content, scum points for silverspawn for a really bad case on sudgy, scum points for sudgy for not posting at all, and finally scum points for ww for not actually giving much content, though plenty of posts.

Day2 reread done!

The vibe I'm getting from this overall is "let's not lynch lurkers just because they're lurkers guys". Which would mean scum is among the lurkers at that point (ie sudgy, Egork and Axxle).

Silverspawn is acting annoying, so I have to work hard to not have a scum read him - I'll reread him, I think.

Sudgy is also fine for me.

Post post post.

Silverspawn looks really scummy, so I'll reread him.

Axxle2 shot wouldn't be that bad.

These are both in day 3, when things looked really bad for XP since W hd said he probably would shoot him. The way I read these posts is :

"Hey, let's lynch [townie who has attracted a lot of attention recently]. ALternatively, I'd be fine with lynching [my partner because I will flip soon so I need to think about my interactions].

[Teproc]

So I'm getting to day 5 now and going into it my theory was that Axxle and Egork were the remaining scum.

Then they both vote each other. Man, this game, it's so hard.

[Hydrad]

I still feel good about the egork

I think XP put egork so high because no one was suspecting egork at that time at all so it was a way to say he thought egork was scummy and distance himself from egork with no really danger of egork being lynched.

But maybe I'm starting to tunnel a bit to hard.

[Teproc]

Ok so let's go through my options :

e : Not shooting him. Too active in a lurking game. I have this paranoid voice in myhead that tells me he's manipulatnig me with his thoughtful analysis, but that's just being paranoid

Hydrad : Big proponent of the XP lynch, very early on. Also reads super townie to me.

silverspawn : His last D1 post, the fight against WW... this really feels like he's town. Sure, his vote on Eevee is the bussiest of the wagon, but I don't think two of Eevee's partners bussed.

sudgy : While rereading I kept thinking : wouldn't scum!sudgy start doing... I don't know, something ? He could be scum, but it just doesn't feel right, and I have no clue who his partner is.

Axxle and Egork : Again, that's my leading theory. I had forgotten that Axxle was actually hammered during day 3 before WW decided to shoot XP. I don't know.

[Teproc]

I'd kinda like to get e's opinion again. You don't think it's Hydrad anymore, but who is it, preferably among the {sudgy, Egork, Axxle} group ?

[Teproc]

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

I keep coming back to this. I don't think XP lists both his partners in the first category here. So that means one of {Hydrad, silver, Axxle} and one of {sudgy, Egork, e} is scum.

Now let's take Hydrad and e out of this. That lets us with {silver, Axxle} and  {sudgy, Egork}.

What pairing makes the most sense here ?

[Hydrad]

I like axxle over SS. egork over sudgy but not by as much.

As for pairings I really don't know. but if i'm picking individuals in those groups that who I would pick axxle/egork

[Teproc]

silver/sudgy : I don't think so, it seems to me that silver has been pushing sudgy at dangerous moments. He's actually voting sudgy right now too.

silver/Egork : Possible. Can't think of much meaningful interaction between

Axxle/sudgy : Possible

Axxle/Egork : They're voting for each other, but actually since we do need to kill all the scum that could be their plan I guess ?

silver/Axxle : Didn't mention this one in the previous post but I think it's possible.

I don't think I want to shoot sudgy because the only player I can see as his partner is Axxle, so i'd rather shoot Axxle then.

Actually yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm shooting Axxle. I'll leave some time for e (who is online, to say something though).

[Teproc]

Ok, well e is offline, so whatever.

Shoot : Axxle

I'm really sorry if this is wrong. If so, I'd still be looking at Egork, and probably silver too.

[Hydrad]

good luck! hopefully I'm see you in the morning!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Touta Matsuda was spending another late night in the office. Sitting in the very same seat as his deceased boss, he couldn’t help but ponder all of the pain the Death Note had caused. He hadn’t told anyone else on the task force that he had recovered the Note. There was no need. It would only get back to Near and the other members of the SPK, the Special Provision for Kira, the competing team working to find Kira. They would surely request to have the Note now that the Chief was gone.

Soichiro’s death pained Matsuda more than he liked to admit. He had always looked up to the Chief as a father figure in his life—a pillar of justice leading the fight against Kira and his false ideals. Yet now, with him gone, Matsuda couldn't help but consider where the Chief’s ideals had gotten him. The chances of Touta recovering the Note as he had were astronomical. Surely this was a sign that he was meant to have it, to use it to fight Kira.

Matsuda picked up the Death Note, got up from his desk, and stepped out onto the balcony outside of the office. The crispness of the night air helped clear his head of the melancholy pervading his mind. The sounds of the city filled the night: cars, sirens, and the palpable dread that the people surely felt knowing that they could be killed at any moment by a raging madman who likened himself to a god.

Unbeknownst to Matsuda, the SPK already knew that he had the Death Note. They knew that he had kept it from them as well. At that very moment, Anthony Rester, a high-ranking member of the SPK was making his way up the office stairs. It was imperative that the SPK kept the Note from falling out of their control again, and Matsuda could not be trusted to keep it secure.

Rester opened the door to the office and silently slipped inside. It took him less than a few seconds to spy Matsuda outside on the balcony. He adjusted the strap of his shoulder holster. They could settle this peacefully. At that very moment, Matsuda turned around. Their eyes met for a split second as Matsuda clutched the Note to his chest protectively.

Anthony wasn't in the mood to grapple with a mentally unstable man for one of the most powerful objects in the world. He pulled out his handgun and fired without a second thought. Matsuda slumped to the ground as Rester stepped forward and took the Note off his body.

Long before this moment, Anthony Rester had known that he had no intention of returning to the SPK and giving them the Death Note. This was his to use for the personal glory of taking out Kira himself. He threw back his head and released a maniacal laugh that echoed through the night.

Teproc has been killed!

Axxle2 is the new Notebearer!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 6.0

Not Voting (6): sudgy, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828, Hydrad, silverspawn

Day 6 ends at 8pm FT on November 24th.

[Hydrad]

dang it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vote: egork still though.

[silverspawn]

request prod on Axxle

[2.71828.....]

yeah, with Axxle2 being town, there is a definite scum narrative for EgorK from D1.  Looking back at EgorK's enthusiasm for an Axxle2 lynch D1 looks very suspicious because his partner (eevee) was already a top candidate for getting lynched.  Although, why would he not have been on WW's case then?  Anyway, I am happy with EgorK getting shot at.

right now town (other than Axxle2) has a 50% shot at scum.  I really like what Teproc did there at the end looking at possible scum teams.  I know that two scum exist in {EgorK, sudgy, Hydrad, silverspawn}. 

I like shooting EgorK>sudgy>silverspawn>Hydrad based off their individual play right now.  Need to go and look at scum teams though.

[AndrewisFTTW]

request prod on Axxle

Prod sent.

[Axxle2]

I'm wondering if I just shoot... right now!

Bang!

[2.71828.....]

*whew*

you missed me.  Careful waving a gun around like that.  I recommend putting the safety on until you want to shoot to avoid any more misfires.

[Axxle2]

[2.71828.....]

[Hydrad]

well I guess at least this thread has posts in it again...

[silverspawn]

vote: e

[2.71828.....]

yeah, I am just going to go with my gut and say that silverspawn and EgorK are the two remaining scum.  I have done rereads, I have stayed current with the game, and really think this is where things stand.

Like Teproc said about sudgy, wouldn't scum!sudgy do something?  Sometime?  And my Hydrad reread made me think he was town.  I guess I could use a silverspawn reread, but I like a EgorK shot today.  I can reread silverspawn tomorrow.

[silverspawn]

yeah, I am just going to go with my gut and say that silverspawn and EgorK are the two remaining scum.  I have done rereads, I have stayed current with the game, and really think this is where things stand.

Like Teproc said about sudgy, wouldn't scum!sudgy do something?  Sometime?  And my Hydrad reread made me think he was town.  I guess I could use a silverspawn reread, but I like a EgorK shot today.  I can reread silverspawn tomorrow.

how convenient.

I think sudgy is scum, and you're probably scum #2. This is a gut feeling, but it's a pretty strong one. the way you interacted with Axxle was subtle, but it was trying to dodge the shot.

[2.71828.....]

"The way I interacted with Axxle was subtle"

Like, throughout the game or just now?  I don't think I was too subtle about anything.

[2.71828.....]

also, why sudgy over EgorK (when it comes to lurkers)?

I really think that scum has one lurker and one poster left.  Which means I think we will find one scum in {sudgy, EgorK} and one in {hydrad, silverspawn}.  And I like shooting EgorK>sudgy and silverspawn>hydrad.  As far as sudgy goes, who really knows, but I find it hard to believe scum would lurk so much.  Well, except for the fact that we have talked about it quite a bit and scum have had a chance to discuss strategy together.  Hydrad just reads plain honest town!hydrad, which PoEs me to silverspawn.  Now, there is a chance that we could have two lurkers remaining as scum, but I don't think so.

[Axxle2]

Who was pushing me yesterday? Giving the book to Teproc who was already leaning towards shooting me most of all *and* pushing him to do so is probably a good place to start too.

[Hydrad]

Who was pushing me yesterday? Giving the book to Teproc who was already leaning towards shooting me most of all *and* pushing him to do so is probably a good place to start too.

Oh thats a good call. I didn't even think of that. If no one has done that I might be able to look over in a few hours

[2.71828.....]

EgorK was....

[2.71828.....]

if you can call one post with a vote "pushing"

[silverspawn]

also, why sudgy over EgorK (when it comes to lurkers)?

I really think that scum has one lurker and one poster left.  Which means I think we will find one scum in {sudgy, EgorK} and one in {hydrad, silverspawn}.  And I like shooting EgorK>sudgy and silverspawn>hydrad.  As far as sudgy goes, who really knows, but I find it hard to believe scum would lurk so much.  Well, except for the fact that we have talked about it quite a bit and scum have had a chance to discuss strategy together.  Hydrad just reads plain honest town!hydrad, which PoEs me to silverspawn.  Now, there is a chance that we could have two lurkers remaining as scum, but I don't think so.

the only thing we agree on is that hydrad is town.

[Hydrad]

Woo people believe I'm town this game!

[2.71828.....]

2 days.  We don't want to repeat yesterday.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 6.1

EgorK (1): Hydrad
2.71818 (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (4): sudgy, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828

Day 6 ends at 8pm FT on November 24th.

[2.71828.....]

Day 6 ends at 8pm FT on November 24th.

[2.71828.....]

and I am not voting?  my bad

1 - EgorK

2 - silverspawn

Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2

[2.71828.....]

vote: silverspawn

[2.71828.....]

although silver has posted today....unlike sudgy and EgorK.

Hey sudgy, you have anything to say now that guilds is done?

[Hydrad]

and I am not voting?  my bad

1 - EgorK

2 - silverspawn

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d2 : 1, total 1

Hmm looks like you should switch that...

Either way I'm not sure If I like this style of voting. I think its a egork and silver/sudgy team so I'm not 100% this vote... but we should really kill egork.

[sudgy]

From what people have said about EgorK, I think I would be okay with his lynch/shot.

[EgorK]

From what people have said about EgorK, I think I would be okay with his lynch/shot.

Any argument that won't apply to you as well?

[2.71828.....]

Either way I'm not sure If I like this style of voting. I think its a egork and silver/sudgy team so I'm not 100% this vote... but we should really kill egork.

I mean, I am not one to usually go dice roll like that, but nothing else had happened in the previous 24 hours so I figured I would shake things up a bit.

[Hydrad]

request prod on axxle

I wanna make sure we don't have another no kill.

[sudgy]

From what people have said about EgorK, I think I would be okay with his lynch/shot.

Any argument that won't apply to you as well?

And you emerge from the darkness...  With this.  That makes me feel a bit better about your lynch.

And, anyway, in my eyes, if I know both of us are scummy but I am town, that doesn't mean that I think you must be town too.

[Axxle2]

Sorry, in the middle of moving but thought I'd have been able to get to this earlier. I'll shoot within the hour.

[Axxle2]

For the life of me I can't find a sudgy scum game

[sudgy]

For the life of me I can't find a sudgy scum game

LOTR Mafia and Shakespeare mafia.

[Axxle2]

silverspawn woke up suddenly, and for some reason knew that today was going to be different...

Well, if I want to tell this story properly, I probably should start from the beginning.

It was 5 pm on a Sunday. The cool evening breeze was flowing in through the open window. silverspawn immediately shut it. He hated the cold and anything to do with it, he just would not let it go. Jacking up the heater to make his room nice and toasty, he took out his trusty laptop and pulled up his usual websites. After scoffing for a while at some truly terrible threads, he finally felt the caress of sleep inviting him. As he lay down his head, however, he heard a tapping at the window.

"Strange," silverspawn thought. "I'm on the second floor, that shouldn't be possible. It must be the trees." Despite knowing there weren't any trees in the immediate area.

*taptaptap* he heard once more.

"Well, I better check it out. There's probably a bird out there that I need to chase away."

silverspawn open the blinds and saw... a boy. How strange. The sun's last rays disappeared as soon as the blinds were opened, but in that instant, silverspawn could have sworn that the boy was sparkling...

(passing out, tbc)

When the heck did I write this?

For the life of me I can't find a sudgy scum game

LOTR Mafia and Shakespeare mafia.

You've dug your own grave!

[Axxle2]

I don't think it's silverspawn. He waffled too much at the end Day 1 with Eevee and ended up on the side to lynch him, and he doesn't seem like the kind of player to bus in that way.

I went back to one of Egor's first games, and he seems kind of the same as here when he was scum, when he does post content it's mostly a vote without too much exposition.

rereading sudgy's games, well skimming most of them, the only other time he lurked this hard he was town, so the lurking is probably a non-tell (it's both easy to fake and a single point for something like this means it's probably not game related) leaning town though.

e, hydrad I don't really have a read on and I don't care at the moment.

Kill: EgorK

I am crossing all 11 of my toes.

[Axxle2]

Also I probably should retire from mafia again, haven't found the effort to put time into it anymore

[silverspawn]

Also I probably should retire from mafia again, haven't found the effort to put time into it anymore

:c well, then at least let's hope you'll still be in this game

[AndrewisFTTW]

For the past few weeks, Anthony Rester had been combing the Kantō region for information about Kira. He had been everywhere: malls, residential areas, police reports, clubs, offices and his hard work had finally paid off. From what he had gathered, Soichiro’s son Light had died under mysterious circumstances. Light had been suspected by the Japanese police force, but most of it had been kept unofficial and off the record.

Working in conjunction with material he had managed to steal from the documents that L’s computer had sent to Near, Anthony Rester believed that he had uncovered the identity of Kira: Misa Amane. At that very moment, he was taking the elevator up to the apartment that she had shared with Light. It was possible that she was armed—or had even struck the deal for the Eyes of the Shinigami. The thought sent an anticipatory thrill through Rester’s body. There was a reason why he had chosen this line of work. The adrenalin rushes were unimaginable.

The elevator doors opened on the ninth floor and Rester stepped out into the hallway of the apartment complex. Walking down the hall, he came to the room mentioned in the case notes. Without knocking, he tried the door and found it locked. It was cheap, and he managed to force it open without making too much noise.

Inside, he found nothing except a note lying on the coffee table. A suicide note. Anthony’s eyes quickly scanned the page. He ran from the room and took the staircase down to his car in the parking garage.

Rester sped through the dark streets of the city, making more than a few dangerous maneuvers as he made his way to the water tower near the wharf district. He parked his car haphazardly in a gravel lot and shielded his eyes against the city lights as he gazed up at the water tower several hundred feet above him. His eyes could make out blond hair waving in the wind and a dim shape standing on the catwalk surrounding the tower's summit. It was Misa Amane, the celebrity, the murderer, the student. She was unmistakable.

She jumped.

EgorK has been killed! He was a Mafia Goon!

Axxle2 is still the Notebearer!

Note: Please use the "Shoot" next time you want to kill someone.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 7.0

Not Voting (5): sudgy, Axxle2, 2.71828, Hydrad, silverspawn

Day 7 ends at 5pm FT on November 29th.

[silverspawn]

cool. this means the last scum is either e, hydrad, or sudgy. I don't think it's hydrad, so it has to be e or sudgy. 50% to hit the right one. If you think town!sudgy doesn't lurk, just kill e and win win win.

[silverspawn]

or you can reread for interactions... from egork. good luck with that.

[2.71828.....]

I agree with everything silverspawn just said.  Except replace "e" with "silverspawn"

[silverspawn]

if you are town and axxle shoots me, I will shoot you instantly and you're at lylo with sudgy and hydrad as your targets. even that should be fine.

this setup is really pro town.

[Hydrad]

Ya I think as long as I don't get shot town wins? So I wouldn't mind if we go rapid fire as this game has taken a while

[2.71828.....]

Ya I think as long as I don't get shot town wins? So I wouldn't mind if we go rapid fire as this game has taken a while

well, if silverspawn isn't scum, and sudgy isn't scum, then you have to be scum. 

[Hydrad]

Ya I think as long as I don't get shot town wins? So I wouldn't mind if we go rapid fire as this game has taken a while

well, if silverspawn isn't scum, and sudgy isn't scum, then you have to be scum.

Ya but I'm not. But either way ya I guess you can't know that. I guess I kinda like a sudgy vote most right now? Then e I think.

[silverspawn]

if you have as many non-notebearer IC's as you have scum, you win 100%. we have one scum, so if we treat Hydrad as an IC and we're right, we can't lose.

[silverspawn]

I'd actually support this gamble and start rapid firing. If hydrad truly is scum, he deserves to win anyway.

[sudgy]

Vote: e I think silverspawn is towny from trying to PoE.

[2.71828.....]

sudgy makes absolutely no sense right now.

[silverspawn]

a wise man once said sense comes through the legs.

[2.71828.....]

It is just as easy for scum to PoE here as it is town.  Everyone seems to have given up rereading and is going on gut feel.  Well, the people who have been playing the game at least.

Sudgy, before you make any votes you should actually go back and reread silverspawn.  Reread me.  then vote.

[2.71828.....]

a wise man once said sense comes through the legs.

and sudgy has no legs

[silverspawn]

a wise man once said sense comes through the legs.

and sudgy has no legs

imaginary +1 for explaining the joke

[2.71828.....]

I'd actually support this gamble and start rapid firing. If hydrad truly is scum, he deserves to win anyway.

and rapid fire is not a gamble, really.  I mean, scum needs 3 misfires to win the game.  Even if we somehow manage to miss scum twice, then we can go back an reread and figure stuff out.  I am all about getting this game finished though

[silverspawn]

I'd actually support this gamble and start rapid firing. If hydrad truly is scum, he deserves to win anyway.

and rapid fire is not a gamble, really.  I mean, scum needs 3 misfires to win the game.  Even if we somehow manage to miss scum twice, then we can go back an reread and figure stuff out.  I am all about getting this game finished though

you lose if we do this. as scum you are not supposed to agree on it.

[2.71828.....]

I'd actually support this gamble and start rapid firing. If hydrad truly is scum, he deserves to win anyway.

and rapid fire is not a gamble, really.  I mean, scum needs 3 misfires to win the game.  Even if we somehow manage to miss scum twice, then we can go back an reread and figure stuff out.  I am all about getting this game finished though

you lose if we do this. as scum you are not supposed to agree on it.

except I am not scum

[Hydrad]

So maybe we are right about sudgy being scum!

[silverspawn]

maybe...

[2.71828.....]

Taking an objective step back, lets suppose for a second that silverspawn and I are both town. 

You shoot me, I shoot him.  You shoot him, he shoots me.

Really the question is who do you want to have the lylo shot?  We will have to pick between sudgy and hydrad.  I would choose to shoot sudgy, as would silverspawn.  Hydrad will not die.

Now, suppose we shoot sudgy first.  Right now.  Then he gets to pick between me and silverspawn...and then same thing happens with one of us shooting the other.

The only thing that can change the inevitable result of the game is if Axxle2 goes off the wall and drunkenly shoots Hydrad.  Which I don't advise.

[2.71828.....]

So unless Hydrad is scum, we win the game.

[silverspawn]

I don't like this quote:

So maybe we are right about sudgy being scum!

Also, I don't like what e is doing.

I... I don't wanna die
Suddenly I'm frightened for my life

Then again, axxle is probably going to shoot based on his own reads anyway. Which were right the first time, so yeah.

probability with random targets now: scum win = 3/4*2/3*1/2 = 1/4; town win = 3/4

maybe we should really just shoot randomly?

[silverspawn]

idontknooww

[2.71828.....]

I... I don't wanna die
Suddenly I'm frightened for my life

I really like how silverspawn is trying to project his thoughts onto me.  Really clever.  Can we shoot you now?

[silverspawn]

I would actually feel best if you did not shoot me. If we do the plan with IC!me instead of hydrad, we win 100%, not just 75%. of course that's exactly what scum!me would suggest... eh.

[silverspawn]

And I wasn't projecting anything. I was just quoting lyrics that fit my emotional state. vote: e

[Axxle]

Plan is to actually get a read on e. If I feel strongly he's scum I'll shoot him, but I really don't want to be wrong since I'm pretty sure silver is town.

Oh, are we singing?

all the other kids with their pumped up kicks better run, better run, outrun my gun~

[Axxle2]

Plan is to actually get a read on e. If I feel strongly he's scum I'll shoot him, but I really don't want to be wrong since I'm pretty sure silver is town.

Oh, are we singing?

all the other kids with their pumped up kicks better run, better run, outrun my gun~

^

[AndrewisFTTW]

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart,
The very next day, you...

Ahem... carry on...

[sudgy]

I think scum knows PoE will out them, so I don't think they would bring it up (but would gladly add more to a conversation about it to look towny).

[2.71828.....]

I think scum knows PoE will out them, so I don't think they would bring it up (but would gladly add more to a conversation about it to look towny).

So since silverspawn posted first today, made sense, and I agreed it makes me scum.

As long as I understand what you are saying here.

[2.71828.....]

Oh, and yeah, I have decided to ignore anything sudgy says.  I just realized he didn't post AT ALL the entirety of D4 and D5. 

As in, this was his last post D3:

I think Axxle2 is more town out of this.

Then his next post, which was in D6:

From what people have said about EgorK, I think I would be okay with his lynch/shot.

That is 2 weeks.  Yeah, I probably should have been requesting prods on him every 48 hours, but I didn't.  No one has been super active, probably because scum knew their chances were zero after eevee died D1.  Actually, scum probably knew they had an uphill battle the entire game.  So what do you do?  Lurk, post good reads, and avoid confrontation. 

yeah, shoot me tomorrow, I don't care.  I just want a vote: sudgy right now.  silverspawn has actually done something in the game.

[2.71828.....]

hey, I mentioned in the V/LA thread, but I am officially leaving for the holidays now.  So very limited access the next several days.

[2.71828.....]

If I find myself as the notebearer, I will shoot on the spot when I check in.

[Hydrad]

sure vote: sudgy

I don't really care who gets shot though. I think its sudgy? actually might be e or SS. idunno. axxle you should just shoot

[Hydrad]

i prefer e or sudgy. i have a slight townread on SS this game.

[2.71828.....]

hey guys.  checking in. 

Public Service Announcement:

1.5 days (about) until shoot or we self-destruct again.

[Axxle2]

No extension for nthanks taking?

[AndrewisFTTW]

No extension for nthanks taking?

Nope.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 7.1

2.71828 (2): sudgy, silverspawn
sudgy (1): 2.71828

Not Voting (2): Axxle2, Hydrad

Day 7 ends at 5pm FT on November 29th.

[silverspawn]

you should probably shoot someone.

[Hydrad]

less then 24hours! I believe in you axxle!

[silverspawn]

hey, don't forget it. prodprodprod

[Axxle2]

shoot: sudgy

[silverspawn]

I hope he is scum. town!sudgy couldn't even hold the notebook for us.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Anthony Rester was driving away from his home. Since the death of Misa Aname, there were a few things that he had needed to clear up. But now, he was free to continue his work. Strangely, although logic told him that he had slain the last Kira, something nagged in the back of his mind. There had to be more to what had happened than just three humans.
 
Elsewhere, Ryuk continued to lounge in Light and Misa’s empty apartment, biding his time for the right moment.

Driving down a back road as he headed into the city, Rester was forced to stop his car as a crazed man jumped out in the middle of the road. That man was none other than Kyosuke Higuchi, one of the high-ranking members of the Yotsuba group—an eminent organization of Japanese businessman which had gained considerable power in the chaos caused by Kira. Anthony could feel his throat constrict as he saw the glinting of a knife in Higuchi’s hands illuminated by the car's headlights.

Higuchi advanced on the car too quickly for Rester to react. Within a moment, Higuchi had opened the driver’s door and stabbed him in his throat. Rester tried to say something, but all that came out was a sanguine gurgle as his grip relaxed on the gun he had tried to draw from his holster. Scrabbling, Higuchi tore through Rester’s clothes until he uncovered the Death Note. His organization could use this as the ultimate means of eliminating their competition. Their rise to power was now unstoppable.

Axxle2 has been killed!

sudgy is the new Notebearer!

Day 8 ends at 5pm FT on Dec. 4th.

[silverspawn]

damnit. well, that means it's either e or hydrad. And I'm not so sure it's e anymore, mostly because it irks me that mafia never chose Hydrad as the notebearer (they did choose one twice).

[silverspawn]

but rereading him he really looks like town to me. If this is scum!hydrad, he is playing much better than in Wool Mafia.

[silverspawn]

i don't knooow...

[silverspawn]

anyway sudgy (request prod on sudgy btw) how is the plan?

[silverspawn]

Another problem with shooting e is, the penalty in case of choosing the wrong target is higher. town!e would shoot me over hydrad, but town!hydrad might be reasonable and shoot e rather than me.

[Hydrad]

Hmm well sudgy I'm ok with you shooting pretty quick. This game has dragged on for a while.

Although I think it might be SS who is trying to set me up for a misshot? scum knows that they have to make me less of an IC so it almost feels like SS is making his move right now.

But I dunno e still might be a good shot. My biggest worry is if SS is town then he actually might shoot me..

So I think I might be like 60% sure SS is scum right now but if e is shot I feel like hes most likely going to shoot SS anyways so that gives us a garenteed victory.

[silverspawn]

Although I think it might be SS who is trying to set me up for a misshot? scum knows that they have to make me less of an IC so it almost feels like SS is making his move right now.

that doesn't really make sense, because I was the one who made you a semi IC in the first place (although this term is totally inappropriate here). why would I do that? IC's in this setup are huge.

[silverspawn]

who will you shoot if you get the gun, hydrad?

[Hydrad]

who will you shoot if you get the gun, hydrad?

I feel like I shouldn't answer that because If i say whoever is town then scum might push towards shooting me. But if I say scum then they will try to shoot the other person.

[silverspawn]

who will you shoot if you get the gun, hydrad?

I feel like I shouldn't answer that because If i say whoever is town then scum might push towards shooting me. But if I say scum then they will try to shoot the other person.

awesome, so you can tell from their reactions who is scum.

[silverspawn]

I really want you to be town, you know? because then my read is correct. And I am > 50% confident. But still...

[silverspawn]

but maybe e isn't even going to shoot me if he gets the gun. This is not how I play as scum. I don't just sit through until the end and hope to convince people. If I am scum, I am super active and try to do my best. There is WIFOM, but WIFOM is just that, WIFOM. I want more than WIFOM as scum.

[silverspawn]

basically, if between us 3 A announces that he is going to shoot B upon getting the gun, C wants to kill A, because that wins him the game as either alignment. Likewise, if A says he wants to shoot C, C wants to shoot B rather than C. So, if e wants to shoot me over Hydrad, that's a reason for to push Hydrad rather than him. A pretty paradox scenario indeed. It's all weakened by the fact that we're not actually voting though. If this was democratic, then we'd have some really mindtwirling scenarios.

It's basically OMGUSIAMVY the opposite of OMGUS. OH MY GOD YOU SUCK I AM NOT VOTING FOR YOU.

[silverspawn]

In case that was too complicated, the point is that, if someone thinks you're scum, you want to protect that person. You want to protect the people that find you scummy.

[silverspawn]

Or, you know, you could just shoot randomly...

[silverspawn]

randomly between e and Hydrad of course. don't include me.

[sudgy]

I am probably going to shoot e.  Everybody in the game still, please say who you think is town/mafia and why.  Once everybody has, I'll shoot.

[Hydrad]

reads.

sudgy = town
Hydrad = town

e = 40% scum in my eyes. the fact that he was almost lynched day 1 makes me think scum tried to lynch him and It didn't feel like eevee/xp/egork tried very hard to stop that lynch

SS-60% scum. feels towny but through a bit of POE i'm thinking hes the last scum

(note this stat list has been dome from memory as I'm at work so I can't double check to see how scum reacted that well to e. But from memory I think thats correct)

who I would shoot? probably e as the fact that SS is starting to suspect me worries me but am fine with either.

[silverspawn]

I think Hydrad is probably town, because I tried to analyze his playstyle specifically, and had a strong town read based on that and his actions this game. The fact that he was never chosen as the notebearer weakens this confidence, but it's not enough to swing it around. And I think e is scum because he's the only remaining option if Hydrad is in fact town.

[2.71828.....]

hey, rereading now will post before the night is over with my reads.

[2.71828.....]

Actually, might not get this done until tomorrow.  I am at home (like family home not where I live) and we are about to play Dominion IRL, so I am pressing pause on the reread.

If you want the short reads, I think silverspawn is scum, Hydrad is town.  I am rereading silverspawn and am in D2 right now, but everything I have found so far is just confirming it to me.

[sudgy]

Eh, you know what?  Shoot: 2.71828......  I like it more than the others.  e, if you're town, finish up that reread and shoot.

[Hydrad]

yes rapid fire mode activated!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Ryuk the Death God was tired. Sitting alone in the apartment, he contemplated all that had happened since the fateful day that Light Yagami had found his Death Note. Yet now, Light was dead—and so were all his accomplices. It seemed to Ryuk that the time had come for him to return to the Realm of the Death Gods. Unfortunately, that was not possible so long as his Death Note was still in the hands of a living human. He roused himself, spreading his black wings and taking a final bite from his apple.

Providentially, Kyosuke Higuchi had just entered the office building where the Yotsuba group was to meet. He was smart enough to know that he shouldn’t give away his possession of the Death Note. As such, no one at the meeting would know which person possessed the Note. Instead, they would discuss who they would kill—and he would then carry out their will anonymously.

Unfortunately for Higuchi, Rester was smarter than he had anticipated. The real Note was still in Rester’s car, hidden beneath one of the floor mats. Higuchi would not find out this truth until the organization had already wagered that their assassination would succeed. That miscalculation would cripple them beyond repair.

Ryuk flew through the night, enjoying the last few minutes of his time in the mortal world. Landing near Rester’s car, he retrieved the Death Note and concealed it in his shirt. Then, he rose into the night sky, flying higher and higher until he reached the spiritual portal that lead back to the Realm of the Death Gods. He anticipated that the King of the Death Gods would not be happy with him, but that was of little consequence. For now, he had meddled enough in human affairs. It was time to go home.

And with that, the last Death Note on earth—along with its keeper, returned to their proper place.

2.71828..... has been killed!

TOWN WINS!!!

[Hydrad]

yayyyyy we did it

nice sudgy

[Hydrad]

man that was a long game.

month and a half for 20 pages .

was an interesting gamemode and I'm glad we tried it.

[liopoil]

Is 8 days a record?

[A Drowned Kernel]

yayyyyy

[AndrewisFTTW]

Nice job e surviving that long! This setup would be cooler as a blitz I think, or at least 2 or 3 day deadlinea.

[Hydrad]

is there a speccy QT or anything?

[Witherweaver]

I don't think it needs to be Blitz, but shorter deadlines definitely.

I'm annoyed I missed that deadline.. I somehow thought I still had days left.

[XerxesPraelor]

Teproc's posts about my interactions were super funny to read - all the things I tried to make people think actually  worked on him.

[silverspawn]

yay I can read hydrad. also yay we won 

so, what's which the choice for notebearers? why ADK and teproc?

[2.71828.....]

mafia qt:  http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/6EhgN2GiectU

[2.71828.....]

Teproc because I just thought there was no chance he would ever get shot.  I mean, if it came down to Hydrad, Teproc, and myself, there is 0% chance I survive.  silverspawn was also an option, but he always suspected me a bit more than others so I didn't want him to be the notebearer. 

Throughout the game I probably played way too individualistic, but it was difficult not to because of, you know, reasons.  I actually think had I been shot instead of EgorK we might have had a better chance, but I seriously doubt it.  This game was going to be almost impossible to win no matter what.

[silverspawn]

I'm not sure you really had another choice, so this is not necessarily a critique, but I found you tunneling me kind of random. I don't think you ever really explained why? At least I don't remember.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, I was doing it as a PoE thing more than anything else there at the end.  I wanted to keep sudgy alive as someone you could shoot because I knew that between me and hydrad I was dead. 

So my plan was get you shot, get sudgy shot, then hope that sudgy hadn't payed too careful attention and that I could bring him over to shooting hydrad. 

[2.71828.....]

In fewer words, I thought I could get you shot easier than I could get Hydrad shot. 

[AndrewisFTTW]

Flavor and QT links tomorrow. This weekendhas been nonstop work for me so I haven't had time to get to a computer. Sorry about that!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Flavor has been posted for the last two kills and here are the QTs:

Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/8pbev3ZhcwcSS

Mafia: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/6EhgN2GiectU

Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/RZDDVsGWT5ir

Thank you to everyone for trying out this new setup and being patient with everything, and thank you to Ichi for the badass flavor and for helping me out!

[Ichimaru Gin]

Man, this was awesome. It was a pleasure co-modding for you and writing the flavor.

This was definitely an interesting and enjoyable experience as my first time doing this sort of thing.

[scott_pilgrim]

Okay, I just want to say, I really don't like this set-up.  When I first saw it, I thought "hey that's a cool unique idea for a set-up".  But this game really dragged on and there was so little discussion through the whole thing, and I think that's really the set-up's fault.  It's like it's designed to minimize everyone's participation.

First, there's nothing to discuss, other than lynch flips, so there's minimal information added to the game on each new day.  There's no night kill results to discuss, and no night actions.  It's like every day is D1.  Also, it means there can never be any claim-related discussion, because there's nothing to claim.  Everyone who's not scum is just a VT.

Second, there's no accountability for votes.  The fact that the gunbearer has the final say (and I think optimal play would involve just shooting independently of votes, though I'm not sure about that), means everyone else has very little incentive to get involved.  I can vote, but I can't really influence the gunbearer's shot, and I can't get mad at him if he doesn't listen to me, because I also wouldn't listen to me in his position.

Third, this is a much more minor thing, but I think scum tends to post less when they have day chat, so that's another thing that hurts participation.


I just did a bunch of calcs because I wanted to complain about the balance of the set-up, but I actually think it's pretty well-balanced.  I got town has a 43% (42 and 6/7%) chance of winning with random shots.  I was expecting it to be much higher, above 50%, which would be complaint worthy because in this set-up the game is strictly harder for scum than the probability with random shots.  But 43% is reasonable I think.  In this game it looked really good for town because they hit scum D1, but if they miss scum D1, they have only a 1/3 chance of winning with random shots, so I guess that's how it's balanced.  In practice obv. hitting scum D1 is even better because a scum flip is so much more valuable than a town flip.  I don't really like how heavily the game depends on hitting scum D1, but I don't know what you can do about that, that's true of mafia in general.

Anyway, I still don't like the set-up, even if it's balanced.  It sounded cool but seems like it doesn't work so well in practice.  Maybe it would work better as blitz, but I'm skeptical.

[faust]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with scott; this is why I didn't sign up for this game in the first place.

[ashersky]

I think this is much better suited to be played all at once, a la drunk (or IRL) mafia.  You can yell and scream and try to convince the gun bearer, no voting, just chaos, with rapid firing.

[silverspawn]

well I've said this even during the game, and I agree with SP, though I'd add a few things.

One: rewarding you for being shot is a bad idea. Part of the motivation town has is that you want to keep playing, and being lynched sucks. Here, being shot is cool, because then you get a gun. You have less motivation, and don't want to invest as much in the game. Bad.

Two: A single IC is almost enough to break this setup. If you have as many IC's as scum remaining, you win 100%, but even if you have just one, it's a tremendous advantage. Of course you cannot create real IC's, but if one player makes himself obv!town, that's bigger than it has any right to be.

Three: mafia is so helpless in this setup. They can't do anything. Part of what makes playing as mafia cool is the fact that you can just be nice during the day ONLY TO KILL PEOPLE DURING THE NIGHT. that's satisfying. Here, you have none of that. Why do we even hunt mafia, they didn't do anything to us <.<

And I also disagree that 43% is okay. Why would it be. A 7-2 setup has like >70% for scum with random lynches, and that's not very good. 10/3 has 80% (reference here. So, I don't even think it is balanced.

[faust]

And I also disagree that 43% is okay. Why would it be. A 7-2 setup has like >70% for scum with random lynches, and that's not very good. 10/3 has 80% (reference here. So, I don't even think it is balanced.

While I agree with the rest you said, this part isn't really true. We don't do 7/2 or 10/3 setups without PRs because it would be unbalanced (and, well, boring). Prs greatly increase town's odds, but calculating here becomes quite complicated.

I still think 43% with random shots is probably too high, but you can't use this argument for it.

[silverspawn]

okay yeah, the argument doesn't work. still, this setup is giving very little credit to the reading skills of players. and as we see here, scum lost pretty hard. I think if 43% was really balanced, that would be pretty sad.

[Witherweaver]

I like reading about how they were all trying to get me shot in the Mafia QT

[Witherweaver]

Also, I was on scum pretty much all Day 1 & 2 with e, Eevee, XP (except for, you know, that vote on myself).  Though after Eevee and XP flipped I probably wouldn't have shot e until possibly late.  I probably would have ended up shooting EgorK (for lack of anything better to do, not for a strong scumread) if I had actually realized the deadline was coming up.

[Witherweaver]

well I've said this even during the game, and I agree with SP, though I'd add a few things.

One: rewarding you for being shot is a bad idea. Part of the motivation town has is that you want to keep playing, and being lynched sucks. Here, being shot is cool, because then you get a gun. You have less motivation, and don't want to invest as much in the game. Bad.

Two: A single IC is almost enough to break this setup. If you have as many IC's as scum remaining, you win 100%, but even if you have just one, it's a tremendous advantage. Of course you cannot create real IC's, but if one player makes himself obv!town, that's bigger than it has any right to be.

Three: mafia is so helpless in this setup. They can't do anything. Part of what makes playing as mafia cool is the fact that you can just be nice during the day ONLY TO KILL PEOPLE DURING THE NIGHT. that's satisfying. Here, you have none of that. Why do we even hunt mafia, they didn't do anything to us <.<

And I also disagree that 43% is okay. Why would it be. A 7-2 setup has like >70% for scum with random lynches, and that's not very good. 10/3 has 80% (reference here. So, I don't even think it is balanced.

I think the Daychat thing is a factor, though.  This is probably a high-skill setup for scum.  If you look at their QT, there is a lot of talk on who to vote and when, on how bussing will look, etc.  I think e actually played very well. 

[AndrewisFTTW]

You guys all have valid arguments but I think the problem is you're comparing this setup to other normal setups and making a judgement based on that. Yes compared to other setups this is dull for lack of PRs and only one person ultimately determines who dies, but in a drunk mafia or blitz context like ash has pointed out, I think this could be pretty fun. I understand the argument that if town is shot they are "rewarded" but I don't see it like that. I see it as whoever misses scum gets punished (killed) so whoever holds the gun is under a lot of pressure to get it right. The only rewarding part about is being an IC, but you can still die if you miss.

Also everyone has complained that this game dragged on and on. If you look at how many posts are in this thread, we're only at page 40. I understand there's inherently less to talk about because of the setup, but almost without fail everyone waited until the day of the deadline to shoot. Often people would go 4 or 5 days without posting anything. Yes I didn't forsee the problem of 10 day days in the beginning of the game but deadlines are a loose suggestion and I think people should've been more trigger happy.

[silverspawn]

you sound slightly defensive (or maybe I'm just imagining that). If you are, there's no reason to, most of us thought it was a cool setup before we tried.

About it being better in blitz, I have no idea, could totally be the case. I don't care about blitz though, so I only judged it as a normal game.

[Teproc]

Yay we won !

My reads were pretty awful this game.

I agree that this would probably work better in Blitz, though I disagree that the problem is taht you are being rewarded for being shot. If you view being shot as being rewarded, I don't know what to say because that's obviously wrong : being shot as town is te same as mislynching so...

[AndrewisFTTW]

That's probably because this is the internet and it's very easy to misconstrue tone. I have no personal investment in this setup, I just happen to think this setup can be more fun in a blitz setup or if the players are more willing to trust their gut and shoot quicker and I hope it's run again.

[Witherweaver]

You guys all have valid arguments but I think the problem is you're comparing this setup to other normal setups and making a judgement based on that. Yes compared to other setups this is dull for lack of PRs and only one person ultimately determines who dies, but in a drunk mafia or blitz context like ash has pointed out, I think this could be pretty fun. I understand the argument that if town is shot they are "rewarded" but I don't see it like that. I see it as whoever misses scum gets punished (killed) so whoever holds the gun is under a lot of pressure to get it right. The only rewarding part about is being an IC, but you can still die if you miss.

Also everyone has complained that this game dragged on and on. If you look at how many posts are in this thread, we're only at page 40. I understand there's inherently less to talk about because of the setup, but almost without fail everyone waited until the day of the deadline to shoot. Often people would go 4 or 5 days without posting anything. Yes I didn't forsee the problem of 10 day days in the beginning of the game but deadlines are a loose suggestion and I think people should've been more trigger happy.

I generally agree with this.  Plus, once you're made the IC, you  have to continue on without any more information than you had the previous day, because there is no Night Kill, and you already knew the alignment of the guy that shot you.  Everyone else gets the bonus of knowing your alignment. 

I actually thought this went pretty well.  Days 1 was good, and Day 2 mostly.  It died down a little after that.  SP mentioned that every day was kind of like Day 1, but I think our Day 1 here was pretty neat, so I don't see a big issue with that.    I felt a little at a loss once I got the gun, because people just kind of stopped talking.

I'd be up for trying again, probably with reduced deadlines (5 days maybe?).  Blitz could be fun as well.   

Generally

[Witherweaver]

Yay we won !

My reads were pretty awful this game.

I agree that this would probably work better in Blitz, though I disagree that the problem is taht you are being rewarded for being shot. If you view being shot as being rewarded, I don't know what to say because that's obviously wrong : being shot as town is te same as mislynching so...

You were on Day 1!

[Witherweaver]

Yay we won !

My reads were pretty awful this game.

I agree that this would probably work better in Blitz, though I disagree that the problem is taht you are being rewarded for being shot. If you view being shot as being rewarded, I don't know what to say because that's obviously wrong : being shot as town is te same as mislynching so...

Well it's not exactly the same, which is the point I kept arguing.  Mislynching means L people need to vote for you.  Getting shot means 1 guy has to choose to shoot you.  Having L (or L-scum) people think you're scum is different than having one Vig-type think you're scum. It can be the same if the shooter chooses to follow votes, but they don't have to. 

[Witherweaver]

That's probably because this is the internet and it's very easy to misconstrue tone. I have no personal investment in this setup, I just happen to think this setup can be more fun in a blitz setup or if the players are more willing to trust their gut and shoot quicker and I hope it's run again.

There was definitely a feeling of "man I don't want to get this wrong!" when I got the gun.  Before I got it, I had a more "I want to go on a killing spree!" attitude.

[Teproc]

I meant that it's the same result for town, ie -1 townie, which is obviously bad.

Also being notebearer isn' all that fun since, as you pointed out, you have less info than anyone else. Its somewhat similar t being an IC (which I haven't been yet but I'm not particularly looking forward to it).

And yeah, reversing my read on you was good, except it was completely useless since you immediately got shot. I was on the Eevee lynch day 1, so at least that was decent.

[silverspawn]

Yay we won !

My reads were pretty awful this game.

I agree that this would probably work better in Blitz, though I disagree that the problem is taht you are being rewarded for being shot. If you view being shot as being rewarded, I don't know what to say because that's obviously wrong : being shot as town is te same as mislynching so...

of course being shot is a bad thing, but there are two sides two it, the, uh, intellectual (in lack of a better word) and the emotional one. Surely the first one is more important, and in the end we all tried not to get shot. But it just makes sense for a setup to punish you on both sides for being lynched, that way you try harder. I mean why give any sort of advantage for being shot, even if it's a small one? The fact that you usually aren't even allowed a goodbye post in the thread gives being killed extra weight, and that just doesn't exist here.

[XerxesPraelor]

I thought this was a very fun game to be in as scum, but I understand why it didn't feel as good to most people. It did feel extremely difficult to win, though.

[Teproc]

Well, I guess I'll just disagree onyour intellectual/emotional dichotomy here. I would feel pretty bad about being shot, since that means I failed to convince that person I was town.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's a big problem in the setup or a reason that people started lurking. I think the problem is that votes don't mean much, which means you feel pretty powerless as a townie.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Yay we won !

My reads were pretty awful this game.

I agree that this would probably work better in Blitz, though I disagree that the problem is taht you are being rewarded for being shot. If you view being shot as being rewarded, I don't know what to say because that's obviously wrong : being shot as town is te same as mislynching so...

Well it's not exactly the same, which is the point I kept arguing.  Mislynching means L people need to vote for you.  Getting shot means 1 guy has to choose to shoot you.  Having L (or L-scum) people think you're scum is different than having one Vig-type think you're scum. It can be the same if the shooter chooses to follow votes, but they don't have to.

I think it's similar in the sense that in both a mislynch and a misshot (or whatever) a member of town dies. So no member of town is "rewarded" for being shot, they all have to deal with losing one member of town.

That's probably because this is the internet and it's very easy to misconstrue tone. I have no personal investment in this setup, I just happen to think this setup can be more fun in a blitz setup or if the players are more willing to trust their gut and shoot quicker and I hope it's run again.

There was definitely a feeling of "man I don't want to get this wrong!" when I got the gun.  Before I got it, I had a more "I want to go on a killing spree!" attitude.

And I think that might be because we're all taking this game way too seriously. Let's just have some fun and go on killing sprees!

[Witherweaver]

I meant that it's the same result for town, ie -1 townie, which is obviously bad.

Also being notebearer isn' all that fun since, as you pointed out, you have less info than anyone else. Its somewhat similar t being an IC (which I haven't been yet but I'm not particularly looking forward to it).

And yeah, reversing my read on you was good, except it was completely useless since you immediately got shot. I was on the Eevee lynch day 1, so at least that was decent.

It told me you were town, though.  There wasn't a convincing scum narrative for the way you handled the read on me, plus it felt very genuine.

[Axxle2]

I think this was an interesting game, though I was a bit of the problem not posting too often. I'd argue that this is different enough from a standard mafia dynamic its kind of a different game though.

[ashersky]

Andrew, who is the MVP here?

[AndrewisFTTW]

I can't remember who did what. I can look over it tonight and choose someone if you'd like.

[ashersky]

I can't remember who did what. I can look over it tonight and choose someone if you'd like.

Yes, please.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I guess sudgy would be MVP for ending the game.

Bee-tea-dubs, anyone want to run this setup as a blitz maybe next week?

[sudgy]

I guess sudgy would be MVP for ending the game.

Bee-tea-dubs, anyone want to run this setup as a blitz maybe next week?

Yay!