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Author Topic: Really bad card ideas  (Read 1881895 times)

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GeoLib

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2875 on: July 18, 2014, 05:04:18 pm »
0

Bomb
Action - $2
If there is a higher numbered bomb in the supply, return this to the supply and then gain the next highest numbered bomb. Otherwise, trash this and a card from your hand.
---
All cards in the Bomb pile should be in numerical order with the lowest numbered bomb on top. This is Bomb number X [1-10]

It's a pretty decent card overall. Takes a little while for you to arm your bombs, but eventually they go boom and you can start deck thinning with them. And we all know deck thinning is a powerful mechanic, and getting 1 card out of your deck for only $2 is really a steal. If multiple people (or heck just one person) is trying to blow their bombs up at once, you all get a bonus out of it. Think of it like an escalating thermonuclear war: The only winning move is to play.

I am not sure if the fact that the number of the bomb does nothing is intentional or not.   ???

It isn't. I'm a little rusty on esoteric rules edge cases here, but I assume it's because I didn't specify to look through the pile?
it does matter, but it doesn't quite work like you planed. when you buy bomb 1 and use it to gain bomb 2, bomb 1 is now at the top of the pile. I don't think you can gain bomb 3 now, but I'm not sure whether it is in the supply. it probably is, which would cause you to return bomb 1 without getting anything.

Yeah, this is my thought as well. Actually, since you return bomb 1 before you gain bomb 2, I don't think you can even gain bomb 2 at all. I don't think you can gain something that isn't on top of the pile.
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silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2876 on: July 18, 2014, 05:33:36 pm »
0

Quote
Yeah, this is my thought as well. Actually, since you return bomb 1 before you gain bomb 2, I don't think you can even gain bomb 2 at all. I don't think you can gain something that isn't on top of the pile.
oh yea, i didnt consider that you return it before gaining

enfynet

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2877 on: July 19, 2014, 01:06:04 am »
0

Just reverse the order: gain then return this to the supply. Maybe sort them by cost, from $0 to $10 and use the cost as the number.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2878 on: July 19, 2014, 01:26:36 am »
+1

Combos With Scout
Action
Cost: $4
----------
The game ends in a tie.



(It's effect is much better if you have a deck full of scouts :P)

but if this card is invented, all games end with a tie. text that is written below a horizontal line is a general rule that's added to dominion, it always applies, even if the card itself isn't in the supply

This isn't true... The text only applies if the card is in the supply, or in the Black Market. See Baker and Young Witch; their text obviously doesn't apply when they aren't being used that game.
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ephesos

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2879 on: July 19, 2014, 07:55:55 am »
0

Just reverse the order: gain then return this to the supply. Maybe sort them by cost, from $0 to $10 and use the cost as the number.
But there are only 10 cards... Maybe they skipped bomb number $8. It would compete too well with Province.
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silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2880 on: July 19, 2014, 11:20:49 am »
+1

Combos With Scout
Action
Cost: $4
----------
The game ends in a tie.



(It's effect is much better if you have a deck full of scouts :P)

but if this card is invented, all games end with a tie. text that is written below a horizontal line is a general rule that's added to dominion, it always applies, even if the card itself isn't in the supply

This isn't true... The text only applies if the card is in the supply, or in the Black Market. See Baker and Young Witch; their text obviously doesn't apply when they aren't being used that game.

because they say "Setup:", which means "do this when this card is in the supply or in the black market."

I got the "general rule thing from Donald X. here.

GendoIkari

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2881 on: July 20, 2014, 02:52:33 pm »
0

Combos With Scout
Action
Cost: $4
----------
The game ends in a tie.



(It's effect is much better if you have a deck full of scouts :P)

but if this card is invented, all games end with a tie. text that is written below a horizontal line is a general rule that's added to dominion, it always applies, even if the card itself isn't in the supply

This isn't true... The text only applies if the card is in the supply, or in the Black Market. See Baker and Young Witch; their text obviously doesn't apply when they aren't being used that game.

because they say "Setup:", which means "do this when this card is in the supply or in the black market."

I got the "general rule thing from Donald X. here.

Somehow I hadn't seen that. That just sounds strange to me; not sure I agree with Donald there... text written on cards, for any card game like this, is text that overwrites the default rules of the game. They don't create new general rules that are always true; they create rules that are true when playing with that card. I mean... look at Stash. Granted Promo cards are known for being slightly less precise than others... but Stash has a pretty strongly implied "if this card is in your deck" rule that isn't written on the card. By just the way it's worded, if we agreed that the line has special "this rule applies to Dominion as a whole" rules, then nothing stops you from grabbing all the Stashes in your collection and adding them to your deck when you shuffle.

I much prefer to think of the line as the way Donald first described it in the linked post: "The line means 'these things happen at different times.'"

And there's no official rule that I know of that implies that the word "setup" being before other text below a line should change the meaning of the line from "this is a rule that applies to all Dominion games" to "this is a rule that applies when this card is being used." Why should it? "Setup" just tells you WHEN during the game the rule applies. Instead of "while this is in play", the rule applies during the setup of the game. But it only applies if that card is being used.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2882 on: July 20, 2014, 04:44:30 pm »
0

Somehow I hadn't seen that. That just sounds strange to me; not sure I agree with Donald there... text written on cards, for any card game like this, is text that overwrites the default rules of the game. They don't create new general rules that are always true; they create rules that are true when playing with that card. I mean... look at Stash. Granted Promo cards are known for being slightly less precise than others... but Stash has a pretty strongly implied "if this card is in your deck" rule that isn't written on the card. By just the way it's worded, if we agreed that the line has special "this rule applies to Dominion as a whole" rules, then nothing stops you from grabbing all the Stashes in your collection and adding them to your deck when you shuffle.

Even if Stash is in the kingdom, I can't just grab the whole supply pile of Stashes and put them on top of my deck when I shuffle.  It's unclear in that aspect regardless of whether it's in the kingdom.

And there's no official rule that I know of that implies that the word "setup" being before other text below a line should change the meaning of the line from "this is a rule that applies to all Dominion games" to "this is a rule that applies when this card is being used." Why should it? "Setup" just tells you WHEN during the game the rule applies. Instead of "while this is in play", the rule applies during the setup of the game. But it only applies if that card is being used.

Why "should" it be that way?  Why not just define the word "set-up" to mean, this happens at the beginning of the game whenever this card is in the supply.  It doesn't change the significance of the line; the rule "Set-up: Each player takes a coin token" applies to every game, it's just that the word "set-up" is defined so that the clause is only activated when Baker is available.

I think that explanation also explains why we don't take 10 coin tokens and put 10 banes out.
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Minotaur

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2883 on: July 20, 2014, 05:23:36 pm »
+2

So basically every game of Dominion ever has ended in a tie because of a RBCI post.  Can we end the thread now?
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silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2884 on: July 20, 2014, 05:55:06 pm »
0

So basically every game of Dominion ever has ended in a tie because of a RBCI post.  Can we end the thread now?

but it's not, because the card isn't canon  :P

ashersky

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2885 on: July 20, 2014, 06:48:43 pm »
+11

So basically every game of Dominion ever has ended in a tie because of a RBCI post.  Can we end the thread now?

but it's not, because the card isn't canon  :P

Canon
Action - $2
Reveal your hand.  If you reveal two or more Gunpowders, immediately end the game in a tie.
-----------------
In games using this, add Gunpowder to the kingdom.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2886 on: July 21, 2014, 02:20:41 am »
0

Somehow I hadn't seen that. That just sounds strange to me; not sure I agree with Donald there... text written on cards, for any card game like this, is text that overwrites the default rules of the game. They don't create new general rules that are always true; they create rules that are true when playing with that card. I mean... look at Stash. Granted Promo cards are known for being slightly less precise than others... but Stash has a pretty strongly implied "if this card is in your deck" rule that isn't written on the card. By just the way it's worded, if we agreed that the line has special "this rule applies to Dominion as a whole" rules, then nothing stops you from grabbing all the Stashes in your collection and adding them to your deck when you shuffle.

Even if Stash is in the kingdom, I can't just grab the whole supply pile of Stashes and put them on top of my deck when I shuffle.  It's unclear in that aspect regardless of whether it's in the kingdom.

And there's no official rule that I know of that implies that the word "setup" being before other text below a line should change the meaning of the line from "this is a rule that applies to all Dominion games" to "this is a rule that applies when this card is being used." Why should it? "Setup" just tells you WHEN during the game the rule applies. Instead of "while this is in play", the rule applies during the setup of the game. But it only applies if that card is being used.

Why "should" it be that way?  Why not just define the word "set-up" to mean, this happens at the beginning of the game whenever this card is in the supply.  It doesn't change the significance of the line; the rule "Set-up: Each player takes a coin token" applies to every game, it's just that the word "set-up" is defined so that the clause is only activated when Baker is available.

I think that explanation also explains why we don't take 10 coin tokens and put 10 banes out.

I agree with your definition of the word "setup" (except rewording off make Black Market work). I'm saying that they definition of the line should be comparable... Define it as "in games using this, this, do this".
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2887 on: July 22, 2014, 10:35:36 am »
+1

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Marcory

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2888 on: July 25, 2014, 12:01:42 am »
+4

Prince of Celestial Chameleon Action $12

You may set this aside. If you do, add Black Market to the Supply, and place one of every card not in the Supply into the Black market. Perform any necessary setup due to to adding the Black Market cards. While this is set aside, when you would draw a card, you may rearrange your deck or the Black Market deck as you see fit before drawing. If you have not emptied the Supply within three turns of setting aside this, you lose.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 08:57:14 am by Marcory »
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MarkowKette

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2889 on: July 25, 2014, 11:15:00 am »
0

I bet Celestial Charmeleon would easily find a way to end the game by turn 2 if you can rearrange your cards each time you draw a card (in opposition to "only" assume perfect shuffle luck) :)
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2890 on: July 25, 2014, 11:37:08 am »
0

I bet Celestial Charmeleon would easily find a way to end the game by turn 2 if you can rearrange your cards each time you draw a card (in opposition to "only" assume perfect shuffle luck) :)
Isn't that the same thing though, edge cases aside?
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silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2891 on: July 25, 2014, 11:37:52 am »
+2

shouldn't this thread be in forum games?

Witherweaver

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2892 on: July 25, 2014, 11:39:52 am »
+2

shouldn't this thread be in forum games?

But without upvotes, how would we know if our ideas are really bad enough?
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Minotaur

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2893 on: July 25, 2014, 11:40:59 am »
0

I bet Celestial Charmeleon would easily find a way to end the game by turn 2 if you can rearrange your cards each time you draw a card (in opposition to "only" assume perfect shuffle luck) :)
Isn't that the same thing though, edge cases aside?

One does not simply put the edge cases aside... :-P
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silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2894 on: July 25, 2014, 11:41:56 am »
0

you wouldn't, but that might also make it less stressful.

I also found this quote:
You know, I hate to be a downer, but I'm really sick of this thread being in this subforum. I see that there are new posts in the Variants forum and I think, "Oh, maybe there are new cards to critique, or someone has given me feedback on my cards." And then it's just another post or two to this thread. I wish there were a way I could unsubscribe to just this one thread.

I like humor as much as the next guy, but I wish this were moved to the general Dominion discussion area, where the other joke threads are.

Witherweaver

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2895 on: July 25, 2014, 11:47:46 am »
0

you wouldn't, but that might also make it less stressful.

I also found this quote:
You know, I hate to be a downer, but I'm really sick of this thread being in this subforum. I see that there are new posts in the Variants forum and I think, "Oh, maybe there are new cards to critique, or someone has given me feedback on my cards." And then it's just another post or two to this thread. I wish there were a way I could unsubscribe to just this one thread.

I like humor as much as the next guy, but I wish this were moved to the general Dominion discussion area, where the other joke threads are.

I confess I did not think of the harm this was doing.  LFT sounds like he's having a really rough time.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2896 on: July 25, 2014, 11:48:39 am »
0

Though in all seriousness, it would make sense in General Discussion.
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silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2897 on: July 25, 2014, 11:49:00 am »
0

That should actually be doable, i mean we can move threads, right? I made a poll, let's see how it goes.

silverspawn

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2898 on: July 25, 2014, 11:58:28 am »
0

Move - Action - Attack - 5$
Remove all upvotes from all bad cards (including this).

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2899 on: July 25, 2014, 03:24:39 pm »
0

you wouldn't, but that might also make it less stressful.

I also found this quote:
You know, I hate to be a downer, but I'm really sick of this thread being in this subforum. I see that there are new posts in the Variants forum and I think, "Oh, maybe there are new cards to critique, or someone has given me feedback on my cards." And then it's just another post or two to this thread. I wish there were a way I could unsubscribe to just this one thread.

I like humor as much as the next guy, but I wish this were moved to the general Dominion discussion area, where the other joke threads are.

I confess I did not think of the harm this was doing.  LFT sounds like he's having a really rough time.

I got over it. Even as First World Problems go, this is pretty minor for me.

Sorry, Silverspawn, but as your poll is bearing out, popular opinion is against us here. I think this is one of those "accept the things you cannot change" situations.
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