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[yuma]

So, here's a question, is anybody even going to listen to me or should I just hammer myself now?  There was no sarcasm there.  I'm not going to waste my time if you're not going to listen.

Oh boo hoo, we've got a victim. This is practically always a scumtell and even if it isn't nobody wants someone around who won't play their wincon.

What you are dong here is also practically always a scumtell as well...

[yuma]

So I think it is about time for a Voltaire style post:

Basically trying to eliminate players I am not comfortable lynching today so that I can hopefully narrow down on scum:

1.  Eevee
2.  scott_pilgrim
3.  Robz888 - last game gives me more confidence in my ability to read Robz. Which isn't to say that I can currently read him right now as there isn't much to read into... So analyzing him later
4.  mail-mi
5.  yuma - this is me!
6.  mcmcsalot - his on/off vote on raerae read townie to me
7.  A Drowned Kernel
8.  pingpongsam
9.  raerae
10. AndrewisFTTW - There is some stuff here, but as I have said before I think egregious behavior is required to lynch a newbie. I don't see egregious.
11. shraeye
12. Axxle - I don't get his playstyle honestly, but he is active and very engaging. I think that is enough for me for a day1 pass.

Out of who is left: Eevee (kinda a null read), scott (mr. lurker man!), mail-mi (always reads scummy to me. He is like Arch... anytime I want to vote for him he is town, so he is probably town), ADK (Robz why are you voting for him?), PPS (town read has kinda wained a bit, I might lynch here, worth a look at), shraeye (I could lynch here, I don't see why raerae is so confident that the wagon on him was nonsense)

[Robz888]

ADK (Robz why are you voting for him?), PPS (town read has kinda wained a bit, I might lynch here, worth a look at), shraeye (I could lynch here, I don't see why raerae is so confident that the wagon on him was nonsense)

His unvote on raerae, which is an unvote I think scum would make, regardless of whether raerae was scum or not. And he strikes me as overly cautious and polite.

Really, I could lynch anyone in your non-eliminated pool, though.

I do remember back in mafia XIX that raerae and shraeye were apt to defend each other just 'cuz. (In that game, they did happen to both be town). So what's going on here isn't so out of left field.

[A Drowned Kernel]

@ Robz: I unvoted because my initial vote was before the business with AndrewFTTW and was a pressure tactic since I was wary of the shraeye wagon and raerae's vote was a RVS hangover. When a real wagon formed super-quickly and she was in the vicinity of being lynched I unvoted to try and stop a possible mislynch.

My best scum bet right now is mail-mi, who just sort of jumped on not one but two wagons as soon as they got started.

Vote: mail-mi

Yuma you didn't comment on raerae.

[scott_pilgrim]

ADK (Robz why are you voting for him?), PPS (town read has kinda wained a bit, I might lynch here, worth a look at), shraeye (I could lynch here, I don't see why raerae is so confident that the wagon on him was nonsense)

His unvote on raerae, which is an unvote I think scum would make, regardless of whether raerae was scum or not.

Why is this scummy if raerae is town?  (Not saying it's not, just wondering.)  If raerae flipped scum I would definitely look at ADK next, but I don't feel like he's a better lynch than raerae right now.

[Robz888]

ADK (Robz why are you voting for him?), PPS (town read has kinda wained a bit, I might lynch here, worth a look at), shraeye (I could lynch here, I don't see why raerae is so confident that the wagon on him was nonsense)

His unvote on raerae, which is an unvote I think scum would make, regardless of whether raerae was scum or not.

Why is this scummy if raerae is town?  (Not saying it's not, just wondering.)  If raerae flipped scum I would definitely look at ADK next, but I don't feel like he's a better lynch than raerae right now.

The default position scum want to be is not on a wagon that generated a mislynch.

[Eevee]

the speed of the wagon worries me more than the way raerae set andrew up comforts me.

Huh... I hadn't noticed that Eevee was voting (and still is) for raerae when he posted this.

Huh! I had no idea I was.

[Eevee]

Raerae reaching L-1 that fast makes her more likely to be town I think. I would have unvoted her had I realized I was on her.

vote: scott lack of contributions, seems to be playing it too safe.

[Axxle]

Again, I have no experience with what is "scummy" or "townie" but Axxle's erratic posting and constant joking about being scum is obviously to get some sort of response. Would it be scummy to cast early suspicion on yourself so as not to be considered scummy later?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

btw, this is rhetorical. Shraeye is just trying to make the new player look scummy for asking for scumhunting advice. Both trying to get people to target him and discouraging asking these kinds of questions.
Confirm vote: shraeye

Hm. That's a good point. vote: shraeye

Okay, lots if stuff going on here.
First off the question Andrew asks: I don't fin asking this scummy, we have had discussions about this lately which makes it more likely to come up(maybe he read about it)
Shraeye's question: I think it's fine for shraeye to ask this if Andrew did ask that question because he was coached now he has to lie. I have no clue why people found him scummy for this.
Axxle votes: the fact that axxle votes before Andrew answers cuts out anything potentially helpful. I find axxle very scummy for this.

@andrew, claiming means claiming your role, vanilla townie or power role.

Is this word for word what you meant to say? No typos?

Mcmc please answer this

[pingpongsam]

Raerae reaching L-1 that fast makes her more likely to be town I think. I would have unvoted her had I realized I was on her.

vote: scott lack of contributions, seems to be playing it too safe.

The default position scum want to be is not on a wagon that generated a mislynch.

Right, still reading scum in Eevee and do not doubt Andrew is his partner. scotty is playing within his meta.

With the current information at hand I will not lynch raerae. Would lynch ADK.

[pingpongsam]

So, here's a question, is anybody even going to listen to me or should I just hammer myself now?  There was no sarcasm there.  I'm not going to waste my time if you're not going to listen.

Oh boo hoo, we've got a victim. This is practically always a scumtell and even if it isn't nobody wants someone around who won't play their wincon.

What you are dong here is also practically always a scumtell as well...

Interesting, I caught quite a bit of this in Diffusion of Power and guess who was scum there? Playing the why is everyone ganging up on me/tunneling me card is an emotional ploy regardless of alignment. Being a game of logical deduction emotional ploys become smokescreens. Argue the case, make your own or die trying.

[yuma]

Yuma you didn't comment on raerae.

I didn't comment on raerae?

?
?
?

?

[yuma]

Playing the why is everyone ganging up on me/tunneling me card is an emotional ploy regardless of alignment.

It isn't always a ploy though. Perhaps people perceive it as such, but it isn't. I can tell you that I am not so full in control of my emotions that I can use them exclusively as "ploys." Sometimes my emotions come out--regardless of alignment--with no ulterior motive other than me being a human.

I do think that people calling out someone as scummy for having emotion is far and away scummier than someone being emotional. It is too hard to tell if emotions are feigned or real in this setting. And far too often I think they are real.

[mcmcsalot]

@axxle so the answer is no, I didn't mean to do that, now did you want to know because if I did mean to do that it would have made me auto scum in your mind or potentially town? Also your awesome.

[pingpongsam]

Playing the why is everyone ganging up on me/tunneling me card is an emotional ploy regardless of alignment.

It isn't always a ploy though. Perhaps people perceive it as such, but it isn't. I can tell you that I am not so full in control of my emotions that I can use them exclusively as "ploys." Sometimes my emotions come out--regardless of alignment--with no ulterior motive other than me being a human.

I do think that people calling out someone as scummy for having emotion is far and away scummier than someone being emotional. It is too hard to tell if emotions are feigned or real in this setting. And far too often I think they are real.

Maybe ploy was the wrong word. I agree the emotion can and often is real. Its utility to the game is very low, however. I just looked up ploy and it is the wrong word. I mean that the emotional appeal is being used as the argument instead of resorting to logic which is of high utility.

As scum using emotional appeals is a ploy even when the emotion is real. As Town using emotional appeals is a wide open target for scum to strike especially when the emotion is real.

[pingpongsam]

I should note that I am refusing to vote raerae because I do not feel there is a high case on her and the emotional episodes are too messy to read without any other context. While I have implicated that the behavior may be scummy I am certainly not trying to drive a point home or to support her current wagon. Rather, my point was more of a shape up and play the game if you are Town so we aren't flopping around in an emotional cesspool of practically zero utility.

[shraeye]

Okay, so I think from all this that the wagon, IMO, is a scum wagon run up by scum. Scum who wanted to get their partner,  raerae, up on an early wagon so she wouldn't be suspected later in the game. This is because of how quickly it rose/fell. So, based on this, vote: raerae.

Yes, I agree here.

A lot of general rap, quick wagon, quick dissipation.  It all seemed a bit too canned to me. 

Well, so I liked your initial reason for voting her a lot, but that was kind of a quick wagon.

Although I was glad to have a quick, obviously doomed wagon against me on Day 1 when I was scum in that last game.

I'm probably more keen on looking at the raerae unvoters. ADK?

I think Axxle's pressure-vote/unvote is not very indicative of alignment.  It could be a tool; but also seems pretty forced, especially if he knows raerae's meta and how she would react. raerae's interactions with Andrew seem forced, and his vote on her seemed rather "well, I have to be here if her lynch is going down."  I didn't get any direct feel from ADK's stuff...what are you talking about there?

Okay, so I think from all this that the wagon, IMO, is a scum wagon run up by scum. Scum who wanted to get their partner,  raerae, up on an early wagon so she wouldn't be suspected later in the game. This is because of how quickly it rose/fell. So, based on this, vote: raerae.

So who are my partners, mail-mi?  Because everybody in the damn town was on that wagon with the exception of the two people who didn't happen to log in in that twelve hour time-span.  (And for those of you who need a raerae-translation, there was approximation and exaggeration utilized in that sentence.)  And what actually makes you think I'm scum, let's hear it.

Not sure what mail-mi thinks, but if you're scum I bet they were some of the early/reasonless people on your wagon.  I'd be looking at Andrew in particular if you flip scum.

[shraeye]

Playing the why is everyone ganging up on me/tunneling me card is an emotional ploy regardless of alignment.

It isn't always a ploy though. Perhaps people perceive it as such, but it isn't. I can tell you that I am not so full in control of my emotions that I can use them exclusively as "ploys." Sometimes my emotions come out--regardless of alignment--with no ulterior motive other than me being a human.

I do think that people calling out someone as scummy for having emotion is far and away scummier than someone being emotional. It is too hard to tell if emotions are feigned or real in this setting. And far too often I think they are real.

Notice that yuma is simultaneously attacking raerae in his surrounding posts, and in THIS post is give pps a reason to step off of his suspicion of raerae.

vote: yuma

[pingpongsam]

Agree that if raerae flips scum Andrew is likely scum. Feel better about Andrew being scum outside of raerae's alignment. If Andrew is scum then I am feeling strongly that Eevee is scum.

Won't vote raerae today. Won't kill the new guy today. Leaves me with Eevee at this point.

[pingpongsam]

Notice that yuma is simultaneously attacking raerae in his surrounding posts, and in THIS post is give pps a reason to step off of his suspicion of raerae.

I'm not particularly suspicious of raerae. I think she is playing poorly. I had already stated ahead of this post that I wouldn't be voting raerae so I'm not seeing yuma enable me to do something I might otherwise look badly doing because I wasn't doing it to begin with.

[shraeye]

what I see about yuma is that he's worried your comments on raerae will build to something, and is quickly trying to prevent other players from latching onto that.

[shraeye]

This push/pull is a classic mafia tactic, and can be used regardless of raerae's alignment.  I've definitely used it before as a way to give myself an out if popular opinion goes against my case on a towny.

But I did come at this from the perspective of being suspicious of raerae and looking for her partners.  So I think this connection is also of significance.

[AndrewisFTTW]

The person I'm most suspicious of right now is ADK. Flying under the radar until she got off the raerae wagon as soon as Axxle was about to hammer. He seems to be overly cautious and concerned with a mislynch, but only when things get serious.

I'm still suspicious of Axxle and to a lesser extent Eevee. Axxle for consistently having me back so as to avoid suspicion of himself, especially if a mislynch occurs. Eevee didn't know who he voted for? Huh? That's a pretty lame excuse for jumping off a wagon that nobody's into anymore.

[shraeye]

eh, it's happened before, not recalling where your first random vote was.  I don't really find that suspicious.

[pingpongsam]

what I see about yuma is that he's worried your comments on raerae will build to something, and is quickly trying to prevent other players from latching onto that.

Okay, I'll bite. I had a town read on yuma for being within meta but I can read his play as cognitive buddying. He did it early on with my very first posts.

Vote: yuma