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[mcmcsalot]

He also mentions the poor town play possibility definitely no scum read there. This makes me want to go back to outing raerae though I think she is not the best day 1 lynch based on contributions.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Ok here's a dumb question. I saw this way back and was confused.

Now... Let's get this out in the open and I still think it is necessary because of ridiculous stuff from previous games lately...

Alright. Don't claim. At least don't claim just because you think it is the correct. If claiming is the right decision we will come to it as a group and then you can do so at your discretion... but don't just claim willy nilly.

Ok? Cool...

I have looked over the setup a bit and I think the only thing that jumps to my mind is in regard to masons... We had this discussion a bit in DWI and came to the conclusion that masons shouldn't claim day1 right off the bat, but should be more or less obvious enough with reads so that we can figure out who a compatriot is if one dies somehow.

Is claiming different from voting? And if so why is it a big deal to claim but not to vote?

[scott_pilgrim]

Claiming is when you announce what role you are (VT, cop, doc, etc.).  Obviously if you are scum you won't claim scum, you'll claim something else.

Claiming is a big deal because it is permanent (if you take it back later you'll get lynched because only scum lies), and quite often benefits scum more than town (they gain information on who has good PR's).  So yuma is saying, don't claim just because you think it is best, because you may end up screwing over town; wait for other people to agree that you should claim.  I'm not sure I agree with that, because the person claiming can make a much more informed decision about whether it is good for himself to claim (since he knows his role) than everyone else.

Another point is that yes, even claiming VT can be a big deal.  Imagine if all and only those players who were VT's claimed, then scum would know exactly where to look for PR's (power roles).  Each person who claims VT is one less person for scum to consider night killing.

[mcmcsalot]

Again, I have no experience with what is "scummy" or "townie" but Axxle's erratic posting and constant joking about being scum is obviously to get some sort of response. Would it be scummy to cast early suspicion on yourself so as not to be considered scummy later?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

btw, this is rhetorical. Shraeye is just trying to make the new player look scummy for asking for scumhunting advice. Both trying to get people to target him and discouraging asking these kinds of questions.
Confirm vote: shraeye

Hm. That's a good point. vote: shraeye

Okay, lots if stuff going on here.
First off the question Andrew asks: I don't fin asking this scummy, we have had discussions about this lately which makes it more likely to come up(maybe he read about it)
Shraeye's question: I think it's fine for shraeye to ask this if Andrew did ask that question because he was coached now he has to lie. I have no clue why people found him scummy for this.
Axxle votes: the fact that axxle votes before Andrew answers cuts out anything potentially helpful. I find axxle very scummy for this.

@andrew, claiming means claiming your role, vanilla townie or power role.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Ok thanks.

[Eevee]

Essentially, the thing about claiming is, scum will be able to utilize the information perfectly as they'll know if you are lying, whereas town still can't believe you without qualms because scum has all the incentive in the world to fakeclaim in order to frame townies or avoid getting lynched.

[Axxle]

Again, I have no experience with what is "scummy" or "townie" but Axxle's erratic posting and constant joking about being scum is obviously to get some sort of response. Would it be scummy to cast early suspicion on yourself so as not to be considered scummy later?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

btw, this is rhetorical. Shraeye is just trying to make the new player look scummy for asking for scumhunting advice. Both trying to get people to target him and discouraging asking these kinds of questions.
Confirm vote: shraeye

Hm. That's a good point. vote: shraeye

Okay, lots if stuff going on here.
First off the question Andrew asks: I don't fin asking this scummy, we have had discussions about this lately which makes it more likely to come up(maybe he read about it)
Shraeye's question: I think it's fine for shraeye to ask this if Andrew did ask that question because he was coached now he has to lie. I have no clue why people found him scummy for this.
Axxle votes: the fact that axxle votes before Andrew answers cuts out anything potentially helpful. I find axxle very scummy for this.

@andrew, claiming means claiming your role, vanilla townie or power role.

Is this word for word what you meant to say? No typos?

[yuma]

More remembrance, Yuma and me have discussed the idea of townie "pushing" lynches similarly to the way scum does and Yuma was of the opinion that town shouldn't and would rarely use tactics to make the person they think is scum look scummy so that is consistent with his thoughts in town!raerae not having a reason to do what she did.(correct me if I am misremembering)

Well our conversation did occur when I was scum in Mean Girls if I remember correctly, but I have backed off that position a little bit because after we talked about it, I noticed that I was doing it myself. But I think this is a different situation. I think our conversation was that town wouldn't (shouldn't) exaggerate their cases on players and oversell it. But town does do that (I know I have done that) because they aren't just trying to get that player lynched (because they think they are scum) they are trying to convince everyone else that they are right...

But this situation isn't really that. raerae isn't overpushing this or trying to oversell it. Instead it looks like she set up a situation where she could somewhat predict what Andrew was going to do and went into with the mindset of "if he does this, I am going to vote for him." I do find this idea of setting someone up for failure to be at best poor town play and and worst potentially scummy play.

Does that answer your question?

[yuma]

I'm not sure I agree with that, because the person claiming can make a much more informed decision about whether it is good for himself to claim (since he knows his role) than everyone else.

All I am going to say is that people should think long and hard about whether or not they should claim (and veer on the side of caution), especially right out of the gates on day1, or really any other time beside (but sometimes including when at L-1 or when holding a result of some sort) because we have had too far many experiences in the past when someone thought that claiming would be the best move for them and town when in the end it was just best for themselves or no one because they had overlooked a crucial aspect of the setup or game play (something that the town as a whole I think often has a better grasp of than the average player by themselves).

[yuma]

Yeah, I know.  Given recent lulls in activity, I decided on a shorter day (at least day 1).  If there are objections to a 7-day day instead of a 10-day day, PM me.

Regardless can we get an executive decision posted sometime today so we can plan and play accordingly?

[scott_pilgrim]

Yes, I definitely agree that people should be careful and make sure to consider how their claim will benefit town as a whole and not just themselves.  I still feel like it would be very difficult for town to make a decision on whether someone else should claim though, since they don't know the player's role.  Unless you're suggesting they should say something like:

If you're X, claim.
If you're Y, don't claim.
If you're Z, claim.
...

That could potentially work in theory, but if you want to go through every single case "If you're a cop and you targeted X N1, claim; if you're a cop and you targeted Y N1, don't claim; etc." that's just a lot of trouble to go to.  The person who is potentially claiming will know their situation better than anyone else and will have put a lot more thought into it.

Anyway, that has no relevance to the game right now, since I don't think anyone has any immediate plans to claim anyway.

I feel like the way that raerae set up FTTW was intentional, and in the absence of anything scummier than that thus far, vote: raerae.  I think that puts her at L-2.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I've tried to think about how raerae voting for me for no good reason would benefit town but I can't see how it would. So vote: raerae and that's L-1.

[Axxle]

Intent to hammer

[Eevee]

the speed of the wagon worries me more than the way raerae set andrew up comforts me.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Intent to hammer

Do you mean that as an answer to my comment? If so, how would a hammer on me benefit town?

[pingpongsam]

Well, looks like raerae is Town...

[ashersky]

Yeah, I know.  Given recent lulls in activity, I decided on a shorter day (at least day 1).  If there are objections to a 7-day day instead of a 10-day day, PM me.

Regardless can we get an executive decision posted sometime today so we can plan and play accordingly?

I've received no complaints or opinions.  I believe 7 days is optimal.  That said, I advertised 10 days pre-game; an unannounced change in deadlines is akin to a rules change.  Deadline will be 10 days, adjusted to never fall on a weekend.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.8:

shraeye (2): Axxle, mail-mi
raerae (5): Eevee, ADK, yuma, scott_pilgrim, AndrewisFTTW
Eevee(1): pingpongsam
AndrewisFTTW (1): raerae

Not Voting (3): Robz888, shraeye, mcmcsalot

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 4:30 p.m. on March 3, 2014.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Oh right. L-2.

[pingpongsam]

Never trust the mod. mcmc is voting raerae and it is L-1.

[pingpongsam]

Never trust the mod. mcmc is voting raerae and it is L-1.

Nevermind, I didn't see the unvote. The last vote count appears to be correct.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Never trust the mod. mcmc is voting raerae and it is L-1.

Nevermind, I didn't see the unvote. The last vote count appears to be correct.

Yeah I did thr same thing. All hail the mod.

[Axxle]

Intent to hammer

Do you mean that as an answer to my comment? If so, how would a hammer on me benefit town?

Hammering is being the final vote to lynch someone (in this case it'd be raerae).

[AndrewisFTTW]

Intent to hammer

Do you mean that as an answer to my comment? If so, how would a hammer on me benefit town?

Hammering is being the final vote to lynch someone (in this case it'd be raerae).

Oh so hammer and quickhammer are two different things?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Nevermind. I thought quickhammer meant something else.