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[shraeye]

yes, how is asking pps what psychological tool he thinks he is using different than asking andrew what he hopes to gain with his question?

[mail-mi]

yes, how is asking pps what psychological tool he thinks he is using different than asking andrew what he hopes to gain with his question?

the second one seemed more directed to make andrew seem scummier than the first.

[raerae]

Hey, Andrew, can we get your side of the story on this?  You think shraeye was trying to paint you in an ugly way?

Also, another real name, I'm tweaking a bit...

[mail-mi]

Hey, Andrew, can we get your side of the story on this?  You think shraeye was trying to paint you in an ugly way?

Also, another real name, I'm tweaking a bit...

jsut call him fttw

[shraeye]

Hey, Andrew, can we get your side of the story on this?  You think shraeye was trying to paint you in an ugly way?

Also, another real name, I'm tweaking a bit...

how about your opinion too?  how is andrew's opinion on my intent the one that you're interested in?

[raerae]

Hey, Andrew, can we get your side of the story on this?  You think shraeye was trying to paint you in an ugly way?

Also, another real name, I'm tweaking a bit...

how about your opinion too?  how is andrew's opinion on my intent the one that you're interested in?

I'll answer both those questions after we hear from Andrew.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sure. I did feel a little pressured and it seemed like the question was posed in an accusatory manner. However, this is the internet and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have no facial expression to go on and certain sentences can seem like they're saying more than they actually are. That is to say things can be quite easily misinterpreted and skewed. Ok now I'm rambling.

Sorry for playing devil's advocate but the main thing I felt when I first read that was "why am I being asked this? I thought I was clear what I was trying to learn." It seemed more like prodding and unnecessary interrogation than a serious curiosity. Of course, that's what this game is about right?

[raerae]

Sure. I did feel a little pressured and it seemed like the question was posed in an accusatory manner. However, this is the internet and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have no facial expression to go on and certain sentences can seem like they're saying more than they actually are. That is to say things can be quite easily misinterpreted and skewed. Ok now I'm rambling.

Sorry for playing devil's advocate but the main thing I felt when I first read that was "why am I being asked this? I thought I was clear what I was trying to learn." It seemed more like prodding and unnecessary interrogation than a serious curiosity. Of course, that's what this game is about right?

So, is shraeye scum or not?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sure. I did feel a little pressured and it seemed like the question was posed in an accusatory manner. However, this is the internet and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have no facial expression to go on and certain sentences can seem like they're saying more than they actually are. That is to say things can be quite easily misinterpreted and skewed. Ok now I'm rambling.

Sorry for playing devil's advocate but the main thing I felt when I first read that was "why am I being asked this? I thought I was clear what I was trying to learn." It seemed more like prodding and unnecessary interrogation than a serious curiosity. Of course, that's what this game is about right?

So, is shraeye scum or not?

Am I supposed to know the answer to that? Sure.

vote: shraeye

[raerae]

Hey, Andrew, can we get your side of the story on this?  You think shraeye was trying to paint you in an ugly way?

Also, another real name, I'm tweaking a bit...

how about your opinion too?  how is andrew's opinion on my intent the one that you're interested in?

Vote: Andrew

So here's the deal, I wanted that question answered before I finalized this because on the reread I noticed that he sounded both knowledgeable and like a super-newbie.  Ya know, "I don't know what's going on?  Is this a thing?  What about this other complicated thing that isn't normal for a newbie to know about?"  It feels like he was fed info prior to the game but then also told to play up his newbie status.  I wanted to hear what he'd have to say re: shraeye first to see if he'd actually have an opinion when pressed or if he'd just talk around an answer.  Personally, I think the thing on shraeye is nonsense and I'm shocked it gained as much traction as it did.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I have no experience with this game. I have, however, actually sat down and spent time thinking about the mechanics of the game and the possible strategies people could use. I have plenty more newbie questions but I saw what that got me the first time so I haven't asked anything else. Apparently asking questions is a scumtell but hey, whatever. I'm not surprised you're voting for me, I just thought you would've had a little more to go on than that.

[Eevee]

i don't follow.  what psychological tool do you have, pps?

People associate claiming with townie-ness, so a flavor claim right off the bat makes PPS seem townie even though there's no logical reason for it to. For the record: I'm Gunter! This gives you zero actual information but it does make me happy because Gunter is hilarious.

(on a reread, sorry this is old)

What people do this?  F.ds has a long standing history of mafia successfully fake-claiming and pushing for claiming while town is hesitant.  Why do you think claiming is townie?

I do.

[Robz888]

I inherently disbelieve all claims, and claims usually make me more likely to want to lynch a person. Part of this is that I know I will always fake claim as mafia, at least.

[Axxle]

I have no experience with this game. I have, however, actually sat down and spent time thinking about the mechanics of the game and the possible strategies people could use. I have plenty more newbie questions but I saw what that got me the first time so I haven't asked anything else. Apparently asking questions is a scumtell but hey, whatever. I'm not surprised you're voting for me, I just thought you would've had a little more to go on than that.

Ask more questions.

[yuma]

Hey, Andrew, can we get your side of the story on this?  You think shraeye was trying to paint you in an ugly way?

Also, another real name, I'm tweaking a bit...

how about your opinion too?  how is andrew's opinion on my intent the one that you're interested in?

Vote: Andrew

So here's the deal, I wanted that question answered before I finalized this because on the reread I noticed that he sounded both knowledgeable and like a super-newbie.  Ya know, "I don't know what's going on?  Is this a thing?  What about this other complicated thing that isn't normal for a newbie to know about?"  It feels like he was fed info prior to the game but then also told to play up his newbie status.  I wanted to hear what he'd have to say re: shraeye first to see if he'd actually have an opinion when pressed or if he'd just talk around an answer.  Personally, I think the thing on shraeye is nonsense and I'm shocked it gained as much traction as it did.

vote: raerae

Her interaction with Andrew looks like she was setting him up for failure (and for a vote)... something I think I could only see scum doing--well maybe poor town play--either way, I don't like it.

[yuma]

I have no experience with this game. I have, however, actually sat down and spent time thinking about the mechanics of the game and the possible strategies people could use. I have plenty more newbie questions but I saw what that got me the first time so I haven't asked anything else. Apparently asking questions is a scumtell but hey, whatever. I'm not surprised you're voting for me, I just thought you would've had a little more to go on than that.

Ask more questions.

Agreed! It can be a scumtell... but that doesn't mean you shouldn't ask them. A lot depends on what you end up doing with those answers...

[scott_pilgrim]

I have no experience with this game. I have, however, actually sat down and spent time thinking about the mechanics of the game and the possible strategies people could use. I have plenty more newbie questions but I saw what that got me the first time so I haven't asked anything else. Apparently asking questions is a scumtell but hey, whatever. I'm not surprised you're voting for me, I just thought you would've had a little more to go on than that.

Ask more questions.

To expand on this, basically everyone benefits from you asking more questions.  You benefit by learning more about the game, producing content for people to discuss, etc.  Other people benefit by being able to see what kinds of questions you raise.  If you're town, it will probably show by the kinds of questions you ask.  If you're scum, well maybe that would also show by the kinds of questions you ask, but that means if you state (as you just did) that you have questions but are now scared to ask them, people will be more likely to think you're scum, so it's still probably best just to ask and learn.  I would dismiss raerae's vote, unless she actually gets a wagon going on you you should just do what you feel is best for you and best for the game.

[ashersky]

The Deadlines:
1.  Days will last 10 consecutive 24-hour periods.
2.  Nights will last two consecutive 24-hour periods.
3.  Adjustments may be made to ensure days do not start or end on a Friday or Saturday. 

Day 1 has begun.

@mod:

Yeah, I know.  Given recent lulls in activity, I decided on a shorter day (at least day 1).  If there are objections to a 7-day day instead of a 10-day day, PM me.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.7:

shraeye (3): Axxle, mail-mi, AndrewisFTTW
raerae (3): Eevee, ADK, yuma
Eevee(1): pingpongsam
AndrewisFTTW (1): raerae

Not Voting (4): scott_pilgrim, Robz888, mcmcsalot, shraeye

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 4:30 p.m. on February 26, 2014.

[yuma]

post count - includes pre-game

1.  Eevee - 24
2.  scott_pilgrim - 5
3.  Robz888 - 13
4.  mail-mi - 9
5.  yuma - 24
6.  mcmcsalot - 3
7.  A Drowned Kernel - 18
8.  pingpongsam - 10
9.  raerae - 20
10. AndrewisFTTW - 29
11. shraeye - 16
12. Axxle - 31

So for people who haven't seen one before, I do post counts to get an idea of where people are at in their posting. Often lurking (or not posting much) is more indicative of scum than town. But I do not believe that just a low post count is enough to lynch someone for, but is instead sometimes part of their narrative.

Things that jump out to me from this are:
1. mcmc has one post that is real in which he says that he is "caught up no idea who is scum." That was four days ago. prod: mcmc
2. I fear we as a group may be somewhat falling for the "people who post more are appearing scummy because they have more posts fallacy" as every player with a vote on them (raerae, shraeye, Eevee and Andrew) are on the upper echelon of posting, shraeye less than the others, but still is on the upper end.

[pingpongsam]

Post counts are extremely easy to manipulate upwards and are impossible to qualitatively assess except to scrutinize the relatively lower posters.

I'm not knocking the use of the post counts, I think they do have value but that value is highly subjective.

I do think it is easier to paint the higher posting members as scum because there is more to work with. That said, good scum play involves controlling the game which requires higher post counts. In my experience, a good scum team has a generalized mix of post frequency, that is, one guy is out front clearly posting the most while another guy rides the middle of the road and the other guy more or less lurks.

What this can mean that is if we have 5 people over 20 posts then maybe one of those guys is scum and we have 4 people with between 10-19 posts maybe one of those guys is scum and then we have 3 people with less than 10 posts maybe one of those guys is scum. So, unless we really scrutinize the bottom 3 guys I'm not seeing how the post count analysis narrows the field too much. And then those 3 guys can easily post up into the middle of the road to obfuscate where they stand.

That said, if a post count analysis prompts more posting then it is a useful tool for the entire game.

...and thus ends the analysis of the post count analysis.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: raerae

What answer could he have given that you would not have replied the same way?
From my perspective you asked him a question and afterwards voted him for a reason unrelated to his answer.

[AndrewisFTTW]

vote: raerae

What answer could he have given that you would not have replied the same way?
From my perspective you asked him a question and afterwards voted him for a reason unrelated to his answer.

Exactly how I feel about it. It can't be a serious vote. I dont get why someone would post out of spite in this game as it really doesn't help anything.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: raerae

What answer could he have given that you would not have replied the same way?
From my perspective you asked him a question and afterwards voted him for a reason unrelated to his answer.

Exactly how I feel about it. It can't be a serious vote. I dont get why someone would post out of spite in this game as it really doesn't help anything.

I want to add raerae is a doesn't one, I can see town raerae thinking Andrew is scum and doing this exact same thing. Remember pirates where she swapped in and went at it with another townie(I was scum and loved being able to pick either side) soo with that unvote off to reread Yuma and see of I get that sense from him

[mcmcsalot]

More remembrance, Yuma and me have discussed the idea of townie "pushing" lynches similarly to the way scum does and Yuma was of the opinion that town shouldn't and would rarely use tactics to make the person they think is scum look scummy so that is consistent with his thoughts in town!raerae not having a reason to do what she did.(correct me if I am misremembering)