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[AndrewisFTTW]

I really like the way Andrew is thinking, but "trying to see if anyone else thought this could be scummy" is definitely a scumtell.

It is?

[Eevee]

I really like the way Andrew is thinking, but "trying to see if anyone else thought this could be scummy" is definitely a scumtell.

It is?

Yes. Looking for validation, or throwing dirt around and waiting to see what sticks until committing to it is natural for mafia, as they want to lynch anyone but one of their own.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I really like the way Andrew is thinking, but "trying to see if anyone else thought this could be scummy" is definitely a scumtell.

It is?

Yes. Looking for validation, or throwing dirt around and waiting to see what sticks until committing to it is natural for mafia, as they want to lynch anyone but one of their own.

I don't remember "throwing dirt around" or "looking for validation". All I did was notice they way Axxle posted and though I should discuss it with other people. I never said "Axxle is scum. Who agrees?". It seems like you're the one doing that. Just because you say something is a scumtell doesn't make it so.

[Eevee]

Sure, others can weigh in on if what I described would be scummy in their eyes. Either way, I think it is. 

Anyways, what you did was obviously a very mild version of it, as you might have noticed I didn't even vote you for it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything yet and kept an eye out on if whether you continue to do it before "warning you", but my I didn't think it far enough at the time I guess.

[Axxle]

I really like the way Andrew is thinking, but "trying to see if anyone else thought this could be scummy" is definitely a scumtell.

It is?

Yes. Looking for validation, or throwing dirt around and waiting to see what sticks until committing to it is natural for mafia, as they want to lynch anyone but one of their own.

I don't remember "throwing dirt around" or "looking for validation". All I did was notice they way Axxle posted and though I should discuss it with other people. I never said "Axxle is scum. Who agrees?". It seems like you're the one doing that. Just because you say something is a scumtell doesn't make it so.

Eevee's half right. It *is* scummy to not commit by saying "Axxle is scummy" but rather "Axxle did this questionable thing, do people find it scummy" and then being able to react to peoples answers before committing or not.  You didn't really do that since you've already expressed a good amount of suspicion of me (by voting).

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm suspicious of everyone right now, obviously a little more of you than others but not by much. I'm confused as to what you guys are getting at. You want me to commit, which I did through voting, it if I try to discuss my suspicions that's crummy?

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm typing from my phone so please excuse typos and auto correct.

[Axxle]

I'm suspicious of everyone right now, obviously a little more of you than others but not by much. I'm confused as to what you guys are getting at. You want me to commit, which I did through voting, it if I try to discuss my suspicions that's crummy?

I think you're not being scummy. I'm saying that some of the actions you took in a different context might have been scummy. Eevee's not taking context into account which is not great but not necessarily scummy either.

I personally like people committing all the time, it prevents scum from doublebacking on reads easily.

[Eevee]

Yeah, Axxle has it right.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm suspicious of everyone right now, obviously a little more of you than others but not by much. I'm confused as to what you guys are getting at. You want me to commit, which I did through voting, it if I try to discuss my suspicions that's crummy?

I think you're not being scummy. I'm saying that some of the actions you took in a different context might have been scummy. Eevee's not taking context into account which is not great but not necessarily scummy either.

I personally like people committing all the time, it prevents scum from doublebacking on reads easily.

I just re-read you previous post. Thank you and sorry for thr misunderstanding. But I'm still not changing my vote though... yet.

[yuma]

Again, I have no experience with what is "scummy" or "townie" but Axxle's erratic posting and constant joking about being scum is obviously to get some sort of response. Would it be scummy to cast early suspicion on yourself so as not to be considered scummy later?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

That question.  By asking it, what information are you trying to learn?  Is it rhetorical?

It is an interesting question though... because it is what I would consider a higher thinking sort of question. Not that a new player couldn't have such a higher question (they obviously can and do!) but it is something that has only recently for f.ds mafia become even a point of discussion... so it does make me wonder if it is possible that andrew is partners with someone who mentioned something along the lines in a QT to introduce him to the concept and is now asking for more.

Andrew what made you want to ask the question?

I don't think it's higher thinking, it's just something that I thought was a real possibility in this game. I saw Axxle joking about being scum (if my memory is correct) and I thought maybe he's trying to make people overlook him. Not that I think he is scum necessarily, but I just wanted to see if anyone else thought that was a possibility.

I see...

You are right that this isn't higher thinking in and of itself. But what I am wary of is taking it a step further (which it looks like you didn't do) which is the idea (that has been somewhat validated by recent games) that mafia now want to come under fire in early days (but not enough to get lynched) because players that don't come under suspicion on early days are 1. often mafia and 2. often lynched because of it. Unless you had had someone explain that f.ds meta to you I don't know if you would have been very aware of it as a new player.

As for it being a possibility. Yes, it is a possibility. Axxle is kinda the "old grandpa" of the group for us. He is one that introduced mafia to the forum and has played on other sites whereas most of us have not. So with Axxle anything I think is possible... however, I know from experience that he does this sort of thing as any alignment (partially I think to make him a bit harder to read when he does get a scum role).

[Eevee]

I'd say it's more ashersky-esque, to get the game moving. In my experience he stops when the going gets more serious.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I haven't had any communication with anyone about mafia. I've been following Super Mario a little bit and maybe I picked up the concept there. Sorry this got blown out of proportion.

[Eevee]

Don't be! Way better than no conversation.

[pingpongsam]

I really like the way Andrew is thinking, but "trying to see if anyone else thought this could be scummy" is definitely a scumtell.

This quip caught my eye. On the face of it is a simple banter with the new guy. But to me I felt a twinge of either scum!Eevee working a town!Andrew or scum!Eevee dancing with a scum!Andrew.

This twinged again when I saw:

I really like the way Andrew is thinking, but "trying to see if anyone else thought this could be scummy" is definitely a scumtell.

It is?

Yes. Looking for validation, or throwing dirt around and waiting to see what sticks until committing to it is natural for mafia, as they want to lynch anyone but one of their own.

It twinged again. Mild suspicion casting, casual interchange keeps the post count up, appear to be moving thee gam forward banter, hmmm.

And then:

Sure, others can weigh in on if what I described would be scummy in their eyes. Either way, I think it is. 

Anyways, what you did was obviously a very mild version of it, as you might have noticed I didn't even vote you for it. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything yet and kept an eye out on if whether you continue to do it before "warning you", but my I didn't think it far enough at the time I guess.

Actual confirmation of what the twinge was saying.

And finally:

Don't be! Way better than no conversation.

Direct confirmation that this might well be all about appearances.

Vote: Eevee

[Teproc]

Vote Count 1.5:

shraeye (3): raerae, Axxle, mail-mi
Axxle (1): AndrewisFTTW
raerae (1): Eevee
Eevee(1): pingpongsam

Not Voting (6): scott_pilgrim, Robz888, yuma, mcmcsalot, shraeye, A Drowned Kernel

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 4:30 p.m. on February 26, 2014.

[yuma]

Right now the two points that I like the most so far in the game have been brought up by PPS in regard to eevee and by axxle in regard to shraeye

I think I like the point about shraeye more than the point about eevee (the first point in PPS's post resonated, the rest seemed kinda like stretches) and shraeye has more votes...

so vote: shraeye

[Robz888]

I'm like way, way behind. Posting so I don't get prodded.

I'll be back in full force, hopefully tomorrow.

[Robz888]

Tomorrow as in Sunday, not tomorrow as in Day 2.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So we've got a pretty decent wagon on Shraeye, but it seems to have a pretty flimsy basis to me. Axxle originally voted because Shraeye's posts were supposedly just fluff, which isn't isn't that unusual at the beginning of the game, then confirmed it because Shraeye gave a newbie a little bit of a hard time. Then mail-mi and yuma basically jumped on the wagon without a contribution to the discussion beyond "yeah, what Axxle said!" And raerae's vote is a RVS holdover (I'm assuming that was RVS), so I'm just gonna put my vote on her until she changes hers or justifies it.

Vote: raerae

[yuma]

So we've got a pretty decent wagon on Shraeye, but it seems to have a pretty flimsy basis to me. Axxle originally voted because Shraeye's posts were supposedly just fluff, which isn't isn't that unusual at the beginning of the game, then confirmed it because Shraeye gave a newbie a little bit of a hard time. Then mail-mi and yuma basically jumped on the wagon without a contribution to the discussion beyond "yeah, what Axxle said!" And raerae's vote is a RVS holdover (I'm assuming that was RVS), so I'm just gonna put my vote on her until she changes hers or justifies it.

Vote: raerae

I am intrigued here.... what makes you vote for raerae over say me or mail-mi (or axxle for that matter). Now obviously I am not necessarily suggesting you should vote for me (duh!), but why choose raerae over the rest of us?

Do you think that RVS voting is scummy?

It seems to me that here you wanted to vote for someone on the shraeye wagon and then jumped on the person that was the "easiest" to vote for... i.e. you would get the least amount of backlash from it?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I've got my eye on all of you, but raerae's vote is an RVS and I'd really like to avoid a wagon going through with that kind of vote on it.

[yuma]

I've got my eye on all of you, but raerae's vote is an RVS and I'd really like to avoid a wagon going through with that kind of vote on it.

Well I agree with the sentiment... but I don't think the wagon would go through w/o explaining or revoking the vote. I guess my question--or maybe it is more of a statement--is this:

You seem to find the people voting for shraeye to be scummy. But your vote isn't due to scumminess it appears. Instead it is to get a question answered. Votes are used for a myriad of purposes, but in general they are best used to say that you find someone scummy.

So here is my question... Do you find raerae scummy? If not why aren't you voting for someone you do find scummy? If yes, why is she scummy?

[raerae]

Right now the two points that I like the most so far in the game have been brought up by PPS in regard to eevee and by axxle in regard to shraeye

I think I like the point about shraeye more than the point about eevee (the first point in PPS's post resonated, the rest seemed kinda like stretches) and shraeye has more votes...

so vote: shraeye

I'm sorta drunk...what's the point about shraeye?

[raerae]

So we've got a pretty decent wagon on Shraeye, but it seems to have a pretty flimsy basis to me. Axxle originally voted because Shraeye's posts were supposedly just fluff, which isn't isn't that unusual at the beginning of the game, then confirmed it because Shraeye gave a newbie a little bit of a hard time. Then mail-mi and yuma basically jumped on the wagon without a contribution to the discussion beyond "yeah, what Axxle said!" And raerae's vote is a RVS holdover (I'm assuming that was RVS), so I'm just gonna put my vote on her until she changes hers or justifies it.

Vote: raerae

Wait, wait, wait...you're trying to force me to change an RVS vote to...what?  Do we have an actual case on anybody right now?  Not that I've seen so exactly what is my incentive to change my vote?  Just cuz you say so?  raerae don't play that game, sweetie.