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6576

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redistrict: a one-shot mass Remodel

« on: December 01, 2012, 09:51:13 pm »

Did you play test opening Rdistrict? It seems to me that turning your opening 3 estates into a silver, a good $4, and a powerful $5 seems like it would be better than opening with that $5. Or if you draw it with 2 Estates instead of 3, straight trashing a copper instead of that Silver. Of course, that's still a really lucky turn 3 or 4.

Yes, I've definitely tried opening with it and trashing 3 Estates on turn 3/4. It's definitely a real boost, but probably no better than opening with Trading Post and trashing 2 Estates on turn 3 or 4.

6577

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redistrict: a one-shot mass Remodel

« on: December 01, 2012, 08:07:52 pm »

So, I've now playtested this in a few games with an actual opponent. Far from being weak, at this point I'm a little worried about it being too powerful. Although in a test I did earlier, BM-Smithy edged out a very Redistrict-heavy strategy, so I don't think it's too likely to create really boring games. A very Redistrict-heavy strategy does tend to create a very, very small deck, though. This is because you're using a number of your buys on Redistricts, which don't stay in your deck, because you often don't buy a card on the turn you play Redistrict, and because you often end up using the exactly-$1-more option to trash Copper. The end result of this is decks that have a small number of Golds, Silvers, and Provinces, which can stall out quickly. I guess I could add "Gain a Copper" to the card, but hopefully that won't be necessary.

GendoIkari is right about its potential to create AP, although Dubdubdubdub already made my counterpoint, which is that as a one-shot, it's only going to be played so many times per game. Also, it doesn't create AP every time it's played, at least not for players that are relatively familiar with the game.

Overall I like this version of the card, so I hope it works out in future playtesting. My biggest concern right now is that people won't know when to buy the card. I mean that both as, "When in this game do I buy a Redistrict?" and, "Is Redistrict a good buy in general for this board?" The thing is that I don't know the answer myself yet. It combos well with Floodgate, and probably therefore also with Tactician and other hand-size increasers. Conversely, it probably is weaker against Militia and company. I don't really know when Pillage is a good idea, either, so maybe this isn't a dealbreaker.

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback, everybody! If you have more opinions, keep 'em coming.

6578

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redistrict: a one-shot mass Remodel

« on: November 30, 2012, 10:23:24 pm »

Redistrict 5/6/7 --> triple province

Yeah, that scenario had occurred to me. I say if you can set that up, you deserve the 3 Provinces. 

6579

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redistrict: a one-shot mass Remodel

« on: November 30, 2012, 06:24:04 pm »

I think that the second version is very interesting

Thanks!

In other news, I've printed out the card for playtesting (I was doing tests with proxies before). Here it is.

I think you have successfully fixed several of the major card issues...it is not too powerful as an opener, it is much less swingy, and it will almost never be useless (as you've said). My one nitpicky complaint is that now you could be forced to trash nearly all of your hand when you play it, so I would like to see a "You may do one or more of the following" or something. This is very minor, but I feel it takes this from a weak $5 to a balanced and useful $5.

Ah, glad you approve of the change. The trashing your whole hand thing is definitely intentional. If it turns out to be too weak as-is, I may make your suggested change. However, I tend to avoid making cards too user-friendly. There's a lot to be said for cards being a bit harder to use.

6580

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redistrict: a one-shot mass Remodel

« on: November 30, 2012, 04:44:34 pm »

Okay, so. After playtesting Redistrict, I have confirmed that it's almost always really weak. However, I also playtested another version that seems OK power-wise so far. It's an odd one, but please let me know what you think.

Redistrict
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash this.
Trash a card from your hand; gain a card costing exactly $3 more than it.
Trash a card from your hand; gain a card costing exactly $2 more than it.
Trash a card from your hand; gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

This seems really bizarre, and maybe it is, but it's much less swingy because regardless of exactly what you draw it with you nearly always get a lot of mileage out of it, as befits a $5 one-shot. Even if you get it in a hand of mostly Copper, you can turn one Copper into a Silver (or other $3 card), you can trash another outright (as long as Poor House isn't out), and you can boost another card by $2.

So if you're feeling generous, talkative, or just bored, please let me know what you think of this version. Thanks!

6581

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Force barrier

« on: November 30, 2012, 11:15:02 am »

You could remove the need for multiple reveals by saying, "you may reveal this and discard 1 or more cards from your hand."

6582

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Redistrict: a one-shot mass Remodel

« on: November 30, 2012, 10:17:41 am »

I like this card, but I feel that it might be a bit too swingy...as with all one-shots I suppose...
My problem with it is in most hands excepting openings, you'll probably only trash 2 or 3 cards, which makes it not all that much better than Remake, especially with the "haven't gained this turn" clause. I just don't think I'm willing to pay $5 for such a swingy and potentially useless card.

Fair point. I'm going to playtest the card a bit and find out how much of an issue this is.

One possible change:

Redistrict
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Do this up to 4 times: trash a card from your hand then gain a card that you haven't gained this turn costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.  If you gained more than one card in this way, trash Redistrict.

Hmm, that makes the card safer, but might be too powerful and I'm worried it might take some of the simplicity and fun out of the card. Still, it's a change I'll definitely consider.

I also wonder about "Trash a card from your hand.  You may gain..."  So you could also use it as sort of a Chapel + Remodel.

I'm afraid that that would often decide the game on a 5/2 split. A self-trashing card that lets you get rid of Coppers and upgrade Estates into $3 or $4 cards? Seems super powerful. On second thought, that's an argument against my version of the card as well, since a turn-3 hand of Copper/Estate/Estate/Estate/Redistrict could be incredibly powerful on most boards. I'll have to test it out.

Thanks for the feedback, you two.

6583

Dominion General Discussion / Re: When do you get curses out IRL?

« on: November 29, 2012, 04:54:52 pm »

I always put the Curses out. It takes so little time and I often play more than one game in a row anyway.

Also importantly, them's the rules, yo!

6584

Variants and Fan Cards / Redistrict: a one-shot mass Remodel

« on: November 29, 2012, 03:36:55 pm »

Here's my second attempt at a one-shot mass Remodel card. I'm creating it to replace a card in my one-shot expansion.

Redistrict
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash this. Do this up to 4 times: trash a card from your hand then gain a card that you haven't gained this turn costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

The 'card you haven't gained this turn' clause is to prevent a player from gaining multiple Provinces or multiple Colonies all at once with the card.

6585

Dominion Articles / Re: Oasis

« on: November 29, 2012, 10:39:10 am »

Hmm, seems to me that Oasis/Rebuild should be a winning combo. Oases help you reach $5 very reliably, allowing you to buy Rebuilds and Duchies. They also discard Victory cards from your hand, allowing your Rebuilds to get a crack at them.

6586

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds

« on: November 28, 2012, 07:08:01 pm »

And the more sets there are, the longer it takes to get in an appreciable number of games with the new cards if you're playing random from everything...

Agreed. That's one reason I'm glad that Dark Ages has 35 Kingdom Cards.

Of course, when I play IRL, I use a randomizer that allows me to specify that half the cards come from Dark Ages.

6587

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko is offensive to actual fans of Dominion

« on: November 28, 2012, 04:07:42 pm »

And you lot don't even have roundabouts! Just think how much more annoying this is then! You dont know whether they are taking the exit or not! Gaaaah!

We've got a few roundabouts, just not many. Also, in my experience, people are better about using their turn signals when turning, but lax about using them when changing lanes. Or maybe it's just more important to use them when changing lanes, so I notice it more when it doesn't happen.

6588

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko is offensive to actual fans of Dominion

« on: November 28, 2012, 04:00:14 pm »

It's awful, but not offensive in the slightest!

People blocking the milk fridge at work is much more offensive in my daily life!
Although work give me free tea, so it's better than having to go to starbucks (mainly because I hate coffee) and paying a small fortune for horrible tea
Although they did threaten to take the free tea away the other month, there was uproar!

Sorry, slight diversion there, I'm just really pissed off about those people who stand there in front of the milk fridge for no reason and wanted to rant somewhere and this seemed the thread to do it!

I'm offended by people who don't turn on their turn signals.  I automatically assume so many evil things about those people.  Also, people who spit out their gum onto the sidewalk.

I try to cut people a bit of slack when it comes to turn signals, because even I occasionally forget to use them. On the other hand, nobody just forgets to not spit their gum onto the sidewalk.

6589

Goko Dominion Online / Re: Goko is offensive to actual fans of Dominion

« on: November 28, 2012, 03:30:36 pm »

What, specifically, do you find offensive about the Dominion implementation itself? Or is it just the infrastructure and avatars that you find distasteful?

6590

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Now that Dark Ages has been out for a while...Thoughts on cards?

« on: November 28, 2012, 03:26:36 pm »

My guess is that, like most trashing attacks in 2P games, you've got to buy several Rogues and play them often in order to see results.

6591

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dreaming of new cards?

« on: November 28, 2012, 12:27:55 pm »

Also, it should be a Duration, because even though it doesn't affect your next turn, it affects the cleanup phase, after it would have otherwise been discarded, basically just like Outpost.

Like Scheme? Herbalist? Alchemist? Treasury?

Those all activate when you discard those cards from play. This would occur after you discard all cards from play.

6592

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Shapeshifter

« on: November 28, 2012, 11:32:33 am »

I don't think it's a boring idea. In fact, I came up with a similar card for my one-shot themed expansion, Dominion: Enterprise. The current version looks like this:

Boycott
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+$3. Trash this card. Swap a nonempty Kingdom card pile in the Supply with a pile from the sideboard.
Setup: Make a sideboard from 3 Kingdom card piles not in the Supply.

This still requires extra setup, but it has the advantage that it's quick to play. The entire sideboard pile is already there and you just swap the piles, regardless of how many cards are in each pile (as long as neither is empty).

6593

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: Looking to the future: The Guilds

« on: November 27, 2012, 07:03:26 pm »

I would really love to see an alternative curse card with the curse type. Ruins don't count.

Man, why would you love to see that? Is it because you enjoy rules-related confusion?

6594

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cave-In: a new take on the 'Blood Money' mechanic

« on: November 27, 2012, 04:28:21 pm »

Love this idea.  You're right, it's sort of like Potions-after-the-fact.  The big difference is that a single Potion can get you multiple Potion-cost cards, whereas getting multiple Cave-In cards incurs multiple Cave-Ins.  That might mean you can make them stronger than comparably priced Potion-cost cards.

I notice that a number of your Cave-In cards discentivize buying multiples, though, so that's an interesting part of the equation too.

rinkworks, great to see you back! Thanks for the feedback.

With the overall positive reaction I'm getting, I think I'll be creating a 150-card set based on the concept, tentatively titled "Dominion: Underground".

I'm really torn on Diamond Deposit:
You say it is a bit like Counting House, but it is way worse. You only have 3 VP cards in your deck at the start opposed to 7 Coppers for Counting House. It sufferst the same way from missing the shuffle, so many times it can be really weak.
I don't see how this card could be strong at all, apart from games where you buy multiple Estates and $4 VP cards, but then you would want Duchies for $5.

For a $5 card with a penalty, this sounds to me way too weak.

I was just thinking about how to tweak Diamond Deposit. One other problem with it is that if you haven't been keeping careful track of your discard, you'll be hesitant to play it because it might lose you money. To help remedy this and its overall weakness, I've turned it from a terminal Action into a Treasure. In addition, I think it should give a flat +$1 in addition to its current effect. So the only way you won't want to play it is if you have at least 2 more Cave-Ins in your discard than Victory cards, which is something you should be able to track without too much trouble.

For Architect, you might want to change the "draw them" into "put them into your hand", because you "put cards somewhere" when they are being revealed. You draw only from the top of your deck without anything revealed.

Well, Envoy has you "draw" after revealing, so I use that precedent sometimes when I want to economize on card space. However, if I have enough room on the card without it looking too crowded, I'll change it to "put into your hand" instead.

6595

Rules Questions / Re: Market Square and on-trash effects

« on: November 27, 2012, 02:25:49 pm »

ShinKyo has it right. If you trash a Cultist, it's perfectly legal to discard one or more Market Squares as a reaction, draw 3 cards from the Cultist you trashed, then discard one or more Market Squares that you may or may not have just drawn and which may or may not be the same Market Square(s) you just discarded. This has been established elsewhere. I'll try to find the link.

EDIT: This link, which was already posted earlier in the thread, should be sufficient.

6596

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cave-In: a new take on the 'Blood Money' mechanic

« on: November 27, 2012, 11:33:32 am »

Oh, something I forgot to mention. I was hoping to get input on how many Cave-In cards should there be in the Cave-In pile? Should it vary based on the number of players? As the cards are worded now, once the Cave-Ins run out, all players can buy these powerful cards without penalty. I'm assuming that will incentivize players not to empty the stack, but who knows?

Ideally, I'd like to have there be no more than 18 Cave-Ins total, so that I can include 12 Kingdom cards in a theoretical set of 150 cards. If I come up with a Victory card to include in the set, that number drops to 16 Cave-Ins. My initial plan is to have 8 Cave-Ins in the pile for a 2-player game, 12 for a 3-player game, and 16 for a 4-player game. Perhaps that's too few? Let me know what you think. Thanks!

6597

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Cave-In: a new take on the 'Blood Money' mechanic

« on: November 27, 2012, 11:14:24 am »

>This is not in the Supply.

Good; this protects against Ambassadoring them away.

But you could still Masq it.

That seems OK to me -- having one card that creates an unusual interaction is fine, and Masquerade already does that with other cards.

Right, I figured that the Masquerade interaction wouldn't be a deal breaker, espeicially since repeated plays of the Masquerade may cause Cave-Ins to come back to you. Unlike a Curse that you get passed, you can't immediatley trash the Cave-In.

Island, and to a lesser extent Native Village, can also get Cave-Ins out of your deck. There's also Trader, which allows you to forego Cave-In for a Silver.

Island I'm OK with. I didn't even think of the Native Village interaction, but I'm fine with that one, too.

Trader is the only one that gave me pause, and I had considered having using "move a Cave-In to your discard pile" rather than "gain a Cave-In". For the OP, I decided to post the simpler gain wording and let the Trader interaction ride for now. Just as Watchtower can do some crazy things with several Dark Ages cards, I could live with Trader being crazy good with these cards. If in playtesting it turns out not to be fun, I'll revisit it.

Idea seems good; I like it.  Cave-In itself is a bit bland.

Spelunker looks OK.  I think it is similar to Scavenger and Sage.  More immediate than Scavenger (not to mention action instead of coin), more control than Sage.  $3 seems alright, especially because there is a tension between balancing number of Spelunkers and number of Cave-Ins.

Mining Team is a bit tricky.  It is REALLY powerful draw.  If you reveal a Cave-In, it is still a Warehouse, which costs $3 on its own.  Still not that bad (especially because you have at least one dead card to discard -- that Cave-In you drew).  Then again, having that Cave-In in your deck at all is a penalty.  $4 might be OK.

Diamond Deposit feels too swingy.  Might still be OK though?  I have this feeling that it could probably be abused in certain combos, but I'm not sure.

Fortify is another super swingy card.  No negative side to using it, really, since you can usually replace the card you trashed.  But say one person hits a $5 to get a Province while you hit a Cave-In and don't even get to remove it from the top of your deck. 

Architect is probably OK as well…

Thanks for the detailed feedback! I'm glad you like most of the cards. As for your criticisms, I agree that Diamond Deposit is swingy, but I'm guessing it'll be Counting House-style swingy, which I'm fine with. Fortify almost definitely needs work, though. I mean, it might turn out to be fine, but you're almost certainly right about it being way too swingy. Originally, I was going to have it be, "Trash the top 2 cards of your deck. For each one, gain a card costing up to $1 more than it." But that has its own set of issues. I'll work on other ideas for a Remodel variant. Thanks!

With the on-trash mechanics, you could be more direct with this too.  rinkworks' article mentions that a popular solution to Blood Money is to make the cursed card untrashable.  The main complaint about that is that "this cannot be trashed" does not seem to jive well with existing Dominion rules.  Fortress is an example of how it can be phrased to fit.  So you could make a powerful card that comes with a VP penalty and is "untrashable" in the same way as Fortress. 

Or you could make it trashable, but have the on-trash be a penalty. 

"When you trash this, gain a Curse."
"when you trash this, gain 3 Coppers."
"When you trash this, each other player may gain a card costing up to X."

Yeah, these could all definitely work. But once I struck upon the idea of Cave-In and the cool ways cards could interact with it, I was hooked! These other ideas are all very valid, though.

Finally, I had one additional, very simple card idea.

Boomtown
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. +2 Actions.
-------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a Cave-In from the Cave-In pile.

As far as drawing useful cards, this should be more or less equivalent to a vanilla Village. Every shuffle, it draws you one more card than Village would, but you also have one more garbage card to get through each shuffle, so it evens out. In reality, there are lots of cards that benefit from a large handsize, even if several of the cards are useless. Hence, it costs $4 instead of $3.

6598

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Possibly crazy idea I had for a second currency

« on: November 26, 2012, 03:51:48 pm »

Hm, interesting idea. I'd think that this would make the game faster, since the basic Victory cards are "cheaper". I worry about a few issues, though.

First, it's going to play havoc with the utility of some cards, like Upgrade.

Second, it's going to be hard to remember the ways in which all the cards are modified, as you mentioned.

Third, even when players do remember, I would think it'd be pretty confusing sorting it all out. You'd have to think a lot harder about what you wanted to buy/what you could buy on any given turn. That's not necessarily a deal breaker, but it's something I worry about for less hardcore players.

6599

Variants and Fan Cards / Cave-In: a new take on the 'Blood Money' mechanic

« on: November 26, 2012, 03:01:33 pm »

So the other day, I was thinking about all the fan cards that are some variation of "Blood Money"; a powerful card that's either worth negative VP or gains you a Curse when you gain it. The problems with such a card are documented by rinkworks in his Fan Card Creation Guide (Part II, #5). I've never been enamored of this sort of card. I felt like Cache (and more recently, Death Cart) was sufficiently filling this role.

However, with the advent of Dark Ages, which brought with it on-trash effects and Ruins, I've come up with what I hope is a fresh take on this sort of card. It's a new "penalty" card called Cave-In, which you gain when you buy certain, powerful cards.

Cave-In
Types: Cave-In
Cost: $0*
When you trash this, put it on top of your deck. (This is not in the Supply.)

It doesn't incur a VP penalty. Instead, it just takes up space in your deck. It's sort of like a tenacious Confusion. When I thought about it, I realized that the mechanic is very similar to Potions in Alchemy, but instead of having to buy an alternate currency, you pick up a Cave-In as part of the "cost" of the card.

Here are a few sample cards. I'm not sure they're balanced, but I'm mostly looking for feedback on whether this idea interests people. Of course, if you have criticism of specific cards, I'd love to hear that too.

Spelunker
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Cave-In. Put one of the revealed cards into your hand and discard the rest.
-------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a Cave-In from the Cave-In pile.

Mining Team
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Reveal your hand. If you revealed any Cave-Ins, discard 3 cards.
-------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a Cave-In from the Cave-In pile.

Diamond Deposit
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, reveal your discard pile. +$1 per Victory card revealed. –$1 per Cave-In revealed, to a minimum of $0.
-------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a Cave-In from the Cave-In pile.

Fortify
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Reveal the top card of your deck. Trash it and gain a card costing up to $3 more than it.
-------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a Cave-In from the Cave-In pile.

Architect
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Choose one: trash them; or draw them; or put them back on your deck in any order.
-------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a Cave-In from the Cave-In pile.

As you can see, I'm trying to balance these cards such that you have to be mindful about how many you buy. They're powerful, but if you get too many, the Cave-Ins start to pile up and get in their way.

Anyhow, please let me know what you think. Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Additional Cards

Boomtown
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. +2 Actions.
-------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, gain a Cave-In from the Cave-In pile.

6600

Goko Dominion Online / Re: I unlocked the governor!

« on: November 25, 2012, 08:18:38 pm »

Well, I finally beat enough Adventure games to get both Walled Village and Envoy. It was a lot of fun, especially the Dark Ages adventures. They really helped me get familiar with the new cards so that I'll embarrass myself less once I start playing ranked games with them.