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Messages - samath

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76
Dominion General Discussion / Ununtrashable Cards: The Complete List
« on: September 30, 2018, 12:00:30 pm »
Few things in Dominion are irreversible these days. People have even figured out ways to put split piles back in arbitrary orders!

However, one element of Dominion has always had more of a sense of finality to it: the trash. Once something is trashed, it's gone forever, right? That's at least how we explain the game to our friends -- discarding means you'll see it again, trash means you won't.

Of course, that's changed over the expansions, starting with Dark Ages. (Technically, Thief / Noble Brigand took treasures they stole out of the trash, but since they were only in the trash for a brief moment in the midst of resolving the card, we won't count that. I also won't count Fortress for the same reason.) Dark Ages introduced us to Graverobber and Rogue, which can all take cards of a specific price range ($3-$6) out of the trash. Of course, which cost reduction like Bridge and Highway, this meant that any cards costing $3-$11 (i.e. $3+ with no potions) could be retrieved from the trash.

Lurker provided the next big jump up: Now any action cards could be taken from the trash, including cheap ones (e.g. Ruins) and potion-cost ones.

And now finally, Treasurer has given us a way to get any Treasure out of the trash. Of course, this is the biggest deal for heirlooms like Magic Lamp and Haunted Mirror, which no longer are just single-use. But it's also now the first time we can take Coppers out of the trash!

This leaves us with only a small number of cards that cannot be taken out of the trash once they make it there. Here they are:


77
Dominion Articles / Re: Chariot Race
« on: September 30, 2018, 10:58:28 am »
Well, Secret Passage shuts down Chariot Race arguably as much as it enables it. Just put that Province back in the 6th position at end of turn...

78
My final previews video is up! Featuring three games with markus (we got lucky to see all six).


79
Games with markus today!


80
Today's previews video is up! Games with kaminarizumu, commentary (let's call it... interesting) by a variety of folks including Donald X. Also a complete misreading, and mispronunciation, of Ducat at first glance.


81
My video review with commentary, games with markus and discussion featuring Stef and Donald X., among others, is up (or will be shortly):


82
First impressions video is up! Featuring games with jmjjmj and markus.


83
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread
« on: September 24, 2018, 02:48:44 am »
Right, thanks, the first 12 times. I actually only calculated 11, the correct probability is even less - 0.04%!
I think you have an extra zero in there. I calculate 0.414%, or once every 242 games.

I did notice another mistake. I had included the turn when they missed. So now I get 0.075%.

I calculated the chances of each of the 12 hits: 32%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 43%, 33%, 71%, 69%, 71%, 69%, 65%. And then I multiplied them. I don't know how our calculations differed.

I get 32%, 57%, 57%, 57%, 67%, 67%, 71%, 69%, 71%, 69%, 65%. So it seems you go wrong somewhere in the middle with 57%, 43% and 33% replacing the two 67%'s (from the 7/17's). You also only had 11 hits, not 12 -- the 12th line you listed was the first miss.

84
Tournaments and Events / Re: Renaissance: The Tournament
« on: September 23, 2018, 01:25:40 am »
In. Hoping this is eventually expanded beyond 18.

85
Dominion General Discussion / Re: The bad luck thread
« on: September 20, 2018, 09:17:23 am »
Looks like they just hit the first 12 times, right? 12 times in 24 turns.  Still, pretty crazy.

Right, thanks, the first 12 times. I actually only calculated 11, the correct probability is even less - 0.04%!
I think you have an extra zero in there. I calculate 0.414%, or once every 242 games.

86
Tournaments and Events / Championship Bracket
« on: September 18, 2018, 11:04:44 am »
Hi everyone,

I've helped the championship moderators put together a few different versions of the Championship Bracket in Google Sheets. First, there's the full bracket for anyone looking at the super big picture. Second, you can see the bracket starting at a particular round -- since only Round 1 games have been played right now, the only interesting subbracket to see is starting from Round 2, but as the tournament progresses, we'll show later subbrackets. Finally, we've split the original bracket into 8 "regions" which will produce one quarterfinalist each -- these are on the tabs "Region A" through "Region H". Enjoy!


87
Dominion League / Season 29 - Champion Match: Sunday, September 9, 18:30 UTC
« on: September 08, 2018, 11:02:13 am »
Hello everyone!

The Champion Match in the A Division of Season 29 will take place tomorrow, Sunday, September 9th, at 18:30 UTC. It will feature 12-time champion Mic Qsenoch and top player but newcomer to A RTT. Based on the very tight finish at the top of A this season, RTT must win 3.5 games to win, while Mic Qsenoch only needs a 3-3 tie. Even if someone clinches early, they will be playing out the full six games.

There will be commentary as usual on Twitch by Sicomatic and aku chi.

88
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Patterns in Game Length
« on: September 05, 2018, 12:45:54 am »
I don't think this is nearly all signal-less; Black Market is exactly where I'd expect it to be. But yeah, looking further down the list leads to rarely-bought cards like Navigator and Venture that seem to be mostly the noise of the rest of the kingdoms they happened to be part of.

Well, I agree that I'd expect Black Market to be near the top most time-consuming cards, but we can't just look at the list and conclude that the parts that we already expected to see are signal and the unexpected parts are noise, and then use that as evidence to reaffirm our expectations.

Short: I dug into those Venture games and discovered one reason that Venture does make games longer: it's from Prosperity, so Venture games are more likely to be Colony games! However, that's a fairly small effect, but it did happen to be noticeable in a couple of the games I played.

Long: So let's dig into those games to see if those cards mattered! For instance, let's look at Venture, which I don't expect contributes to the signal. We'll focus on the games with Venture in them that were longer than the median to see if it had an effect.

#17259294 vs Philip (37:09) - a Hamlet-Watchtower engine on a Pooka board that piled Curses, Hamlets, and Farmer's Market's. One Venture gained and subsequently trashed to Salvager.
#17395519 vs Jangus (36:34) - a Herald-Jester-Courtier engine with Forge trashing. One Venture gained by Jangus, I have no idea why.
#15876496 vs f_____t_ (35:43) - the most notable thing about this game is that 5 Ghosts were gained, 2 by me and 3 by f_____t_. No Ventures gained, though, even though they can be trashed to get a Ghost.
#17812665 vs Obi Wan Bonogi (30:29) - a Colony game where Crossroads, Magpie, and Necromancer piled with 2 colonies left. No Ventures gained. Rabble also on the board so unclear if Venture caused it to be a Colony game.
#16172946 vs yudai214 (29:59) - another Colony game (with Venture as the only Prosperity card). One Venture gained by me, no idea why.
#17255797 vs Philip (29:51) - a Page game with Necromancer/Secret Passage for trashing and Dominate to build to. One Venture gained by Philip, no idea why.
#17145573 vs nasmith99 (24:22) - Ambassador war fought closely, Menagerie, Wolf Den, Grand Market. No Ventures gained.

So at most 1 Venture was gained in each of those games. That said, one or two were Colony games because of Venture, which will happen about 10% of the time Venture is on the board. And indeed, Colony games tend to be about 3-4 minutes longer on average:

TypeCountAverage Length
Normal39618:24
Colony3121:51
Shelters4017:28
Colony/Shelters414:36

So my conclusion is that there's a tiny signal just from Venture being in Prosperity, but its position is mostly noise.

89
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Patterns in Game Length
« on: September 04, 2018, 03:33:33 pm »
I think JW is right about the reason Inheritance and King's Court are short -- they provide the most runaway acceleration leading to quick resigns.

Remember that short games turn-wise are not always short time-wise. Donate games in particular can lead to a TON of thinking at the beginning of the game, particularly because the near elimination of the role of chance gives you more opportunity to think turns ahead like in chess. Conversely, slogs are often pretty fast to play since there isn't a lot to think about on your turn.

I don't think this is nearly all signal-less; Black Market is exactly where I'd expect it to be. But yeah, looking further down the list leads to rarely-bought cards like Navigator and Venture that seem to be mostly the noise of the rest of the kingdoms they happened to be part of.

90
Dominion General Discussion / Patterns in Game Length
« on: September 03, 2018, 11:00:46 pm »
I've been recording myself while playing online Dominion for the last couple of months. I've played 462 ladder games so far in that time against 96 different opponents, not counting League matches, other tournaments, or games where I accidentally didn't press "Start Recording." There's enough information there that I thought I'd share some observations.

I'll be focusing in this post on how long the games take. This counts all games, whether one of the players resigns or not. For what it's worth, I'm generally seen as somewhat on the slow side, and I resign later than most of my opponents if I do at all, both tendencies which would likely skew these numbers to the high end.

Average: 18:24
Median: 16:54
Minimum: 2:07 (a turn 4 frustration resign)
20th Percentile: 11:07
40th Percentile: 14:56
60th Percentile: 18:49
80th Percentile: 24:54
Maximum: 53:23 (this game against Dingan)

So if I were describing how long a game takes to a friend, I'd say "15-20 minutes." If they really needed to know how long the game would last, I might give a wider range, like 10-25 minutes. Only about 10% of games lasted longer than 30 minutes, although those games tend to be the more interesting ones.

We can actually quantify that. I give a completely subjective 1-5 score to every game in terms of interestingness. It's not the most discriminating metric; almost half of all games get a 3. I only give 5 games each week a 5, and those get featured in my Interesting Games of the Week series. As expected, they're a bit longer on average:
InterestingnessCountAverage Length
12812:57
29815:47
321418:44
48320:51
53821:56

Finally, you might be wondering which cards contribute to a game being longer or shorter. I have that data too, although the sample size for each card is much smaller. That said, you might be able to guess some of the top 5 in either direction:

CardGamesMedian Length
Inheritance810:01
Windfall1410:13
King's Court1310:15
Embassy1710:20
Navigator1311:12
.........
Overlord1024:06
Library1524:08
Venture1324:22
Ghost Ship2024:33
Black Market1726:48

91
Dominion League / Season 29 - End of Season Deadlines
« on: September 01, 2018, 12:46:46 pm »
Season 29 officially ends on Sunday, September 9th. To account for the westernmost timezones, the deadline for reporting matches is Monday, September 10th, at 15:00 UTC.

If you need extra time to finish, please contact your group moderator. There is a one-point penalty for finishing late two consecutive seasons, assessed to the player(s) responsible for the late finish. It is the group moderator's job to assess responsibility; if it is unclear, make sure to let them know.

The deadline for finishing matches late is one week later. All late finish matches must be reported by Monday, September 17th, at 15:00 UTC.

If any matches remain unreported by the late finish deadline, the responsible player(s) will be considered to have dropped mid-season. This means that they are banned for the next two seasons, and automatically demoted when they return. If they played at least three matches to completion, those are kept for the other players' standings and their remaining matches are "simulated" (see the full rules for how), but if they did not complete that many, its result is removed.

In addition to finishing your matches, all players must fill out the returning form to tell us whether they will be back for next season. This form was sent to you in a private message; you can also find it in the pinned post in your Discord division channel. The deadline for filling out the returning form is Wednesday, October 10th, at 19:00 UTC (the Season 30 signup deadline). Any players who have not told us whether they will be back by then will be assumed to be not returning.

92
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Semi-Interesting Dominion Moments Thread
« on: September 01, 2018, 12:05:54 am »
Turn 9 - SamE
S plays a Fishing Village
S plays a Treasure Hunter.
    S gains 3 Silvers.
S plays a Warrior.
    S shuffles their deck.
    S draws a Silver and a Soldier.
    O discards a Warrior.
    O trashes a Warrior.
    O discards a Soldier.
    O trashes a Soldier.

I debated playing the Treasure Hunter after the shuffle, but was pretty satisfied with my decision not to do so when I saw that trash. How often do you get to trash travellers from both lines like that?

93
Dominion League / Season 29 - Newsletter: Working to Reduce Failures
« on: August 21, 2018, 02:32:27 pm »
Hello everyone!

[Note: I wrote this before the season started, but never actually posted it! I think it's still useful to see the mindset that the moderators are taking to this season, even if some of the statements are a little old.]

Season 29, the third season in this era of the big (200+ player) league, starts tomorrow. Since expanding the League by advertising directly on the client, we have spent our first two seasons mainly just keeping up. Now that we've gotten our feet under us and developed almost all of the systems we need to operate at this scale, we'd like to spend the next season focusing on minimizing the problems that arise during the League.

What problems are we talking about? Well, here's some of the feedback we've gotten the last two seasons:
Quote
A couple players in my division were not responsive to messages trying to schedule matches and would stand me up for our scheduled matches. It became too frustrating to work around people who were poor communicators and/or not respectful of others' time.
Quote
Players should be consistently in contact via discord or forum if they want to participate. Some players have been very difficult to get a hold of.
Quote
There needs to be more stringent requirements for players to keep a pace of games. It was super frustrating to have no one interested to play in the early weeks and then need to jam everything in at the end. I'd much prefer a consistent pace.
Quote
once again, there were some issues with scheduling and one group member vanished entirely :(
Quote
player dropping out was a bummer, but was handled well by anders
Quote
Two drop-outs from my division, which was a shame, but I guess that's a natural consequence of trying to attract new players by advertising the league more widely.

In all, we had to remove 37 players, nearly as many as the 41 we removed last season. It is indeed a natural consequence of reaching a larger audience, but it's still something we can improve on. While most of these pains were felt in the E and F divisions featuring many new players, we even had desertions and complaints about scheduling as high as C. Now, to be clear, most of the feedback we've gotten has been positive, and we have a similar percentage of players returning for season 29: 75%. But I bring this feedback up because we recognize two serious problems here that we'd like to spend next season focusing on: reducing the number of players who vanish, and keeping everyone in consistent communication.

Pursuant to the first goal, we're introducing a new check-in form at the beginning of the season. It's been sent to all league players via the usual sources: the private message you received, and pinned in your Discord channel. Everyone must fill out the check-in form in the first week of the season or risk being replaced by a player on the waiting list. I will continue to nag everyone who has not filled it out about every other day until you do.

Included on that check-in form is a series of commitments you're making by signing up to play this season in the League, that we expect all players to take seriously. Most of these are centered around communication. It's completely fine, for instance, to have a week or two during the season where you are unable to play, as long as you communicate this with your moderator and schedule your matches with opponents at other times. We're also trying to be more clear about the need to actually schedule your matches; spontaneity is nice when it works, but the default method is to contact your opponent, offer a few potential times that work for you, and then communicate back and forth until you settle on a time that works for both.

On a final note, I'd like to thank Burning Skull for his many seasons of moderating for the League. He will be taking a (hopefully short) break starting this season, but he'll remain in the loop as an adviser of sorts, along with assemble_me and drsteelhammer, both of whom hope to return soon but cannot do so just yet. And of course, I'd like to thank the other moderators who are continuing this season: Anders, Gazbag, gloures, Seprix, tracer, and volfied. I consistently hear good things about each of you as moderators, like that comment about Anders above. :)

SamE

94
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Most hated attacks?
« on: August 20, 2018, 10:53:36 am »
Disappointed that Hauted Castle didn't make the list in the "not really an attack" category.

Only happening once makes it pretty bearable.
Bearable yes but it still functions like an attack. More disappointed from a completionist perspective than something I’d vote for.

95
Dominion League / Re: Season 29 - Game Reports and Discussion
« on: August 19, 2018, 11:31:34 pm »
My matches this season:










96
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Most hated attacks?
« on: August 19, 2018, 11:24:02 pm »
Disappointed that Hauted Castle didn't make the list in the "not really an attack" category.

97
Dominion Videos and Streams / Re: SamE Old Dominion
« on: August 15, 2018, 01:48:13 am »
And I'm back! Here's Interesting Games of the Week #4.


98
I love that idea for Barber. 'Just a little off the top please'. Trash the top card of your deck; you may gain a card with up to the same cost.
I didn't know my Barber was becoming a Zombie; thanks for the tip.

99
Puzzles and Challenges / Re: Easy Puzzles
« on: August 08, 2018, 10:46:50 am »
You have only 3 cards, which are in your hand. No token, no Duration. Your opponent has 7 Provinces, 8 Duchies, 8 Estates. Win in this turn.

Hard: No Events, no card in trash.
Lunatic: No Villa
Phantasm: 2 cards
No landmarks, presumably? Wall/Wolf Den/Bandit Fort could give your opponent a negative score despite all their green.

100
Dominion League / Season 29 - Standings
« on: July 28, 2018, 04:00:16 pm »

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