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Author Topic: Arbitrarily order a kingdom pile then return game to starting conditions?  (Read 374 times)

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Cave-o-sapien

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I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?
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Awaclus

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As a starting point, you can use one Ambassador and one Lighthouse and just buy all the cards from the pile and return them in any order you want. If necessary, you can even buy other cards to get enough money for the cards in the pile if they're expensive, and then return those cards as well. Then you'll just have an Amb and a Lighthouse in players' decks instead of being in the supply but otherwise it's the initial state.
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J Reggie

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Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

Cave-o-sapien

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Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.
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LaLight

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Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.

51 turns to rearrange Castles Pile from most expensive to the cheapest :)
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Wow where is all this LaLight love coming from all of the sudden?

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infangthief

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Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

So this allows almost any supply pile to be reordered arbitrarily, with one exception: You can't reorder the Encampment/Plunder pile in such a way that a Plunder ends up on top, because then you can't play the Overlords/BoMs as Encampments to return them at the end.

Is there another way to return the Overlords/BoMs?
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infangthief

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I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?

I don't think you can reorder the Castles pile and get back to the initial game state - there's no way of returning the +1VP you get from gaining Crumbling Castle.
[EDIT: Actually maybe it is possible... if Crumbling Castle is gained on a Possessed turn then no-one gets the +1VP token, right?].
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 05:32:47 am by infangthief »
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majiponi

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I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?

I don't think you can reorder the Castles pile and get back to the initial game state - there's no way of returning the +1VP you get from gaining Crumbling Castle.
[EDIT: Actually maybe it is possible... if Crumbling Castle is gained on a Possessed turn then no-one gets the +1VP token, right?].
No, Possessor gains, and she takes 1vp.
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infangthief

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I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?

I don't think you can reorder the Castles pile and get back to the initial game state - there's no way of returning the +1VP you get from gaining Crumbling Castle.
[EDIT: Actually maybe it is possible... if Crumbling Castle is gained on a Possessed turn then no-one gets the +1VP token, right?].
No, Possessor gains, and she takes 1vp.

Ah, ok, yes I suppose that makes sense. I was just going with the FAQ "You do not get any other tokens [other than debt] that player would have gotten". But of course the Possessor gets the VP token as a result of gaining Crumbling Castle.

So in conclusion, the original challenge can be done for any kingdom pile other than Castles and Encampment/Plunder.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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If the goal (this is totally something to do for a practical purpose, right?) is to play a game with the castle pile in a particular order, you could just have Player 2 play their Overlord as a Monument a few times to even out the point totals, then it's essentially the same even if not technically the starting state.
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crj

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Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.
Given you can take multiple Overlords and/or BoMs, and get them all back into the supply once you're done, is that really the smallest possible number of turns? Given perfect shuffle luck, etc.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.
Given you can take multiple Overlords and/or BoMs, and get them all back into the supply once you're done, is that really the smallest possible number of turns? Given perfect shuffle luck, etc.

Oh, I'm sure it can be done in many fewer turns. That was just my first attempt.
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