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Messages - GreyICE

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1
But that's the best way to be scum. Tell the truth. Look, you've both played fine Mafia, but your play after D1 has been subpar. Now that you're under attack, you come rallying to your own defense. You've been targeting SS since D1, someone I have not found scummy.

If I get this read correctly, whoever comes out alive will be auto-town, assuming of course that the survivor does not get lynched.
I currently have, lemme check.  Zero votes on me?  Le assault, it is so overwhelming. 

So you're absolutely convinced this is town v. scum?  And you have me as the more likely scum?

This can't be town vs. town.

What is your reasoning here, Seprix?

Getting any sort of firm statement out of you has been like pulling teeth.  In fact you've remarked several times on your uncertainty.  But suddenly this uncertainty is lacking.  But not on which one of us is scum, just on whether or not scum exists in the two of us.

But, since you agree with me, then lets apply basic logic.  This is totally irrefutable.   

1)  If Silverspawn is scum, then it is extremely likely scum have the page.  Their support for Faust's no lynch plan argues they don't expect the game to continue after today.
2)  Per Silverspawn and Faust's logic, if I am scum, then it is extremely likely that scum don't have the page, since apparently I want an extra lynch to dodge the Swamp Hag (and apparently Pit is also town, but lets ignore how ridiculous that is).

Okay, lets look at this.  Since you are absolutely, utterly, 100% convinced that there is scum in the two of us, the most logical move for you is to Vote: Silverspawn, and ask the Page to shoot me if he's town.

So what's your course of action here? 

2
But that's the best way to be scum. Tell the truth. Look, you've both played fine Mafia, but your play after D1 has been subpar. Now that you're under attack, you come rallying to your own defense. You've been targeting SS since D1, someone I have not found scummy.

If I get this read correctly, whoever comes out alive will be auto-town, assuming of course that the survivor does not get lynched.
I currently have, lemme check.  Zero votes on me?  Le assault, it is so overwhelming. 

So you're absolutely convinced this is town v. scum?  And you have me as the more likely scum?

3
That wasn't the question, Seprix.  When did the point go from valid to invalid?

What point? The one where you say that sucking up can be scummy? What does that even have to do with anything?

Yes.  The point that was a knock on Silverspawn

4
I mean if your entire hypothesis is that I am aggressive as either alignment, then all you'd have to go on is how valid my points are.

And wow, you thought my point was super valid on day 1! 

But now it's not valid.   Now my reasons are invalid.  But it's the same person.

This seems a surprising change! 

5
That wasn't the question, Seprix.  When did the point go from valid to invalid?

6
Ladies, ladies..

We lynch Grey. If Grey is scum, SS is town. Grey!scum is more likely in my eyes. You both bring up very nice points, to the point where you're playing phenomenally. Like, wow. But Grey, behind your words of aggression designed to make people crumble, I do not see as valid points. Why don't we not lynch as we agreed, and have Page kill one of you instead?

That's extremely funny, Seprix.  You thought my point was valid on day 1.


This is one of my favorite scum strategies when voting for someone.  Tell them how good their play are.  It accomplishes many things:

- It makes them feel warm and fuzzy about you, so inherently deflects attention (awww, he really likes my play!  Warm fuzzies~)
- It inherently excuses a town flip (Oh I can't read him anyway)
- It's a really weak vote.  That can sometimes be playstyle, but town tends to vote stronger than scum.  As a wagon vote with this reasoning... bad juju.

I did this when I was scum. I think this is fantastic reasoning, and should not be discredited at all. Seems I have another Mafia idol besides SS now. But idols are bad, and bad is scummy

What happened, Seprix?  Did it become too realistic that deed might have to follow word?

7
  I thought I knew he was town because I was scum.  Now it's back to being reads of mine?  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
I was making a statement form your perspective. That's what you do to show how someone is making no sense. He states some kind of logical flow of events (which in this case implicitly includes the assumption that you are town), and point out the flaws in his logic based on said assumptions. I'm pretty sure you're not new to this concept. Taking this little bit out of context here comes across as pretty desperate.

As for the phrase "useful idiots" I'm sure people can figure out what it means.  Don't sit here and scumplain about phrasing.  You've been on two town lynches so far, and avoided the Pit wagon.
yeah, but we don't call people idiots on f.ds, period.

So lets go over my perspective:

1) I call LA town
2) I call you scum and pit scum.  Pit claims a power role (surprise surprise!) so no one wants to lynch him.  I move to voting you
3) You get LA lynched.  I call it a town lynch, and go back to voting you.
4) You complain that I am inconsistent. 

Is this about accurate? 

I'm not 'hesitating'; that would imply being close to accepting your insane ideas, which I'm not.

And, obviously, my play is not objectively bad just because I am on one town wagon, which is all the facts you have.

Then congratulations!  Since you are maintaining that LA is scum, with my vig we'll have two dead scum from your perspective, right Silver?  Doesn't that sound great to you?

See, either LA is scum and we'll have two dead scum from Silver-town perspective
Or LA is town, and your Silver-town play is objectively terrible, so you should be happy to trade your life for one scum

Only by maintaining this Heisenburg Box of a vote where you maintain he is neither scum nor town can you argue anything other than your own lynch is the most beneficial possible play here.


8
You probably shouldn't call other players idiots.

Yes, you had a town read on him. A - town - read. Basing logic on a read is not good, unless that read is super strong. And, well, since I know your super strong read on me is false, I am forced to not trust your other super strong read.
  I thought I knew he was town because I was scum.  Now it's back to being reads of mine?  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

As for the phrase "useful idiots" I'm sure people can figure out what it means.  Don't sit here and scumplain about phrasing.  You've been on two town lynches so far, and avoided the Pit wagon.

What does your own program say about your own voting record?

Pedit:

See, your aggression towards me has a fundamental problem: If you really thought I was scum, you would have to assume that I played a great game for my alignment, getting 2 towns lynched and being a town read for the majority of players. So... why would you call me a bad player, and continue to empathize how bad my play is. You should think I'm a really good player.

Which is why I think that you don't actually think I'm scum, which can only mean you are scum.
You were playing a decent game for your alignment.  I am pointing out if you are town, your play has been objectively complete shit.  So trading your life for scum could only be called no great loss.  And yet here you are, hesitating.  Because of course you will be trading your life for nothing.  You will flip red, your team will be forced to night kill me.


9

Your logic makes absolutely no sense. I have 2 options. One: sacrifice myself and get you lynched. Two: get you lynched directly. One is better independent of the alignment of anyone else. End of story.
Oh I know getting me lynched is much better for your alignment.

I just want you to come out and say it.

Silver votes please, lets get a scum lynch in before the double town kill tonight.

Or are you going to claim Page, Silver?  Were you explaining why you were going to shoot me tonight, in case the game doesn't end for some reason after your no-lynch scheme?

10

How do you know that LA is town? You can't know that! We have another day! His alignment influences our decision! Why shouldn't he keep pretending?

Oh... right. You know he is town because you are scum.

I mean, there is no other explanation.
Right, there's no other explanation.

Except I've been calling him town all day.  And am extremely mad you found enough useful idiots to get that lynch through.

It's hilarious you're trying to pin TWO DIFFERENT town lynches on me, when you're the one who voted to lynch them, silver.

Come on, your play is objectively awful if you're town.  Have some basic courage, and vote for a plan that will leave scum dead.  Vote for yourself, silver.

11
How does that sound, Silver?

eh, if we mislynch me and then shoot you, scum is in an excellent position. If we lynch you / shoot you without mislynching me scum is in a worse position.

I mean, it's a really good gamble as supposed to no gamble at all for scum; and that's the difference.

you can't honestly tell me that scum!you wouldn't do this.
Actually, yes, scum-me would never call to be vigged, because shit like that has a way of happening.  Scum-me would never fight the LA lynch, because you never fight free lynches. 

This agreement is WONDERFUL for Silver-town.    Lets go over the possibilities:

1) I am scum, LA is scum, you are town:  You trade your life for two scum, and a near-guaranteed win.  Congratulations!
2) I am scum, LA is town, you are town:  You've voted to lynch town twice.  That makes you at best, a detriment for your team.  In that case trading your life for scum is great, because your play has been objectively terrible. 

So either way this is a great deal for you, Silver!  Well, except for possibility 3:

3) I am town, you are scum:
  I'm basically confirmed town tomorrow, or you night kill me and set off swamp hag/confirm pit-scum.

But of course that couldn't happen, it's gotta be 1 or 2, right Silver?  Great deal, right silver? 

One time offer now, jump on board, townie

12
As for wagon analysis, lets do some:

Awaclus(6):
Jimmmm, Silverspawn, Seprix, pit, Ichimaru Gin, Library Adventurer, witherweaver

Here you are, Silverspawn, lynching town. 

xxpittip (4): Witherweaver, GreyICE, Seprix, LibraryAdventurer (L-1)

Silverscum, not on a scum wagon.  How surprising.

LibraryAdventurer: Hydrad, Witherweaver, Faust, Silverspawn, xxpittip

Here you are, lynching town again. 

Lets do some basic wagon analysis.  There are three players in the game who have been on both Awaclus and LA.  Of them, two of them have NOT been on Pit. 

Hi, Silverscum.  Hi pit. 

13
I really fucking hate when someone starts babbling lies out of nowhere.

It's like, come on, I know you're scum.  But do you have to just blatantly lie like that?

You continue not to make sense. I didn't say "you didn't think I'm scummy day 1". I said "your super strong and false 'scumread' on me out of nowhere just confirms my scum read on you."

scumread =/= "absolutely guaranteeing" I'm scum

I mean, I had a pretty strong scumread on you prior to this post, but even that's just something like 75%. I don't think I ever had a ready that went above 80%. 'absolutely guaranteeing' is a big difference.

So, let me get this straight.  You said I had a scumread on you day 1.  You then go on to defend your statement that my scumread on you "came out of nowhere"? Oh no, it most certainly did not.  I explained exactly where it came from.  You are lying to cover it up, because you know you can't argue my points.  And you cannot argue my points, because they are exactly accurate.

But let me extend your hypothesis.  If I am scum, the page went to town, by your own logic.  So this is safe as houses.

We lynch Silverspawn today.  If he flips town, Page, shoot me. 

How does that sound, Silver? 

14
As for your program, I'm sure you wrote it ages ago.  It is only as good an analysis as the mind behind it.  You gave no reasoning behind it.

Either I am to determine you are incapable of providing reasoning or I am to determine it is impossible to give reasoning from a town perspective.

I know which it is, Silver. 

15
I really fucking hate when someone starts babbling lies out of nowhere.

It's like, come on, I know you're scum.  But do you have to just blatantly lie like that?

16
I'm not hiding behind anything. the program shows anyone's wagon history, which is relevant. Are you implying I wrote it in order to 'hide' behind it? that's some serious commitment. Or are you implying I only made this little picture without writing anything? I can generate one with lines for all players in five seconds. But why does any of it matter? I could have easily, yknow, not posted this graph, done everything else exactly the same, and that's it. It's just a little bit of information about your wagon history, nothing else.

you aren't making much sense. And your super strong and false 'scumread' on me out of nowhere just confirms my scum read on you.
I've been calling you scum since day 1, you liar. 

17
I'm okay with lynching Grey, or Ichi.  I'm flip flopping on Silver.

I'm pretty convinced Faust is town.. Seprix still can't read.

I need to reread, but the chances of that are actually fairly small.

I'm still at No Lynch; mostly just because I trust Faust.
I still prefer shooting Seprix.

Also, Hydrad could be lynched too, because why not?
Weren't you on the "shoot pit" plan?

And I admire Silver's program.  It looks like... a red line.  Wait, no, he's scum, and he's hiding behind a lame graph.

I'll tell you what, $20 down, Silver is scum.  He wants the Page to shoot me.  Fine, lets lynch him.  If he flips town, I invite the page to shoot away.  Hell, he can have his buddy shoot away anyway. 

If Silver flips town and the Page doesn't shoot me tonight, lynch me tomorrow.  I absolutely guarantee he's scum. 

18
Yeah. Either way, it's best to no lynch now I think. So vote: no lynch.
If Library is telling the truth, and he was just town that lost interest, we should definitely not lynch anyone else today. And if he was lying, then hey, we hit scum. Enough people are probably already going to die when night comes. If Library is scum, better to make further lynch choices when that is confirmed.
If he was town

And the page is scum

We just lost.

Vote: Silverspawn

19
Yay, so we didn't lynch the guy with the obvious fakeclaim, and instead lynched town.  Faust makes a nice long speech about how it sucks to win as scum that way, then votes No Lynch - in the situation that if page is scum, we have now lost.

Vote: Silverspawn

20
The logical response would be "so you could use that argument day 2"  ;)

But actually I was probably just wrong on IG.

21
Basically, this is the one claim in the game, the literal one claim in the game, that would have preserved Pit's life.  If he'd claimed Page, we'd have lynched him immediately to avoid the scum vig. 

When there is literally one claim in the game that will save a player and that player makes it at L-1?  It's not town.  It's not even ever town.  So fine, it can be our page-town test.  Pit blows up tonight, Page is town.  Pit lives, page is scum.

Now, lets play with the white knight who came swooping in to save him.

22
So Pit claims the magical card that everyone is looking for, the one thing that would stop us from lynching today.

And here comes Silver, the white knight, riding to the rescue -_-

Unvote
Vote: Silverspawn

The analysis remains the same.

If the Page is town and we no lynch, we need to be 50% accurate to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If the Page is scum and we lynch 1 time, we need to be 100% accurate to have a day 2 tomorrow.

If Page is town and we double lynch, we need to have 33% accuracy to have a day 2 tomorrow.
If Page is scum and we double lynch, we need 50% accuracy to have a day 2 tomorrow.

And here is pit, with the claim of Swamp Hag.  Which could have gone to any of the three scum for Pit to claim it and not be counterclaimed.  Any of them.

23
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 24 - Dominion: Adventures Mafia (Day 2)
« on: April 30, 2015, 08:21:59 pm »
I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3

Well, I intend to lynch scum today.
And I have no bloody idea why Grey acts as though we're certain to lynch scum if we lynch twice.
  ;)

Come vote scum with us.  I'll offer a hint, he's suggesting we try and get a 3 vote wagon on each player in LyLo without any concern about a possible quickhammer...

24
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 24 - Dominion: Adventures Mafia (Day 2)
« on: April 30, 2015, 12:07:31 pm »
I mean swamp hag is okay and all, but you'll never figure out who is hated at 4:3

25
Mafia Game Threads / Re: RMM 24 - Dominion: Adventures Mafia (Day 2)
« on: April 30, 2015, 12:03:27 pm »
Why would scum choose to no kill?  Double if killing wins them, yknow, the game?

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