976
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 04, 2020, 02:09:50 pm »
Camel Train does not discard stuff from Exile.
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977
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 04, 2020, 01:26:36 pm »
I like this a lot. Hard to say how good it is but I don‘T think that it is crazy.
If that is the case, you could slightly buff it via making the discarding non-mandatory (only matters if there is junk in Exile due to Coven, Sanctuary, Bounty Hunter or Worm).
If that is the case, you could slightly buff it via making the discarding non-mandatory (only matters if there is junk in Exile due to Coven, Sanctuary, Bounty Hunter or Worm).
978
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 04, 2020, 12:06:55 pm »
I disagree with basically everything:
- BM is faster with Chapel than BM without it. The simulation dudes have probably proved this ages ago.
- If a card is strong in BM that is not an issue as money is rarer/weaker than engine play. For example Guildhall is crazy in and of itself but fine from a meta perspective as the strategy it supports is relatively weak in general.
- Livery is one of the strongest $5 Golds.
- BM is faster with Chapel than BM without it. The simulation dudes have probably proved this ages ago.
- If a card is strong in BM that is not an issue as money is rarer/weaker than engine play. For example Guildhall is crazy in and of itself but fine from a meta perspective as the strategy it supports is relatively weak in general.
- Livery is one of the strongest $5 Golds.
979
Dominion Articles / Re: Populate - Gladiator/Fortune Interaction
« on: June 04, 2020, 12:00:26 pm »
I agree and only meant that if there is any downside to Populate (besides the opportunity costs) it is too many terminals and not too many bad cards as was suggested here.
980
Dominion Articles / Re: Populate - Gladiator/Fortune Interaction
« on: June 04, 2020, 10:29:31 am »I think in many cases I'd rather pay an extra $6 (which is the difference between the total costs of Fortune and Populate) to gain a Fortune than be forced to take my Fortune together with a bunch of other cards that potentially hurt my deck, and especially the average coin value of my Fortune! I say this is a nombo. You need a good reason to go for Populate, and saving $6 on Fortune isn't one.As always, it depends on the Kingdom. Usually the problem of Populate is not that you get bad cards but too many terminals.
981
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 03, 2020, 11:48:15 am »Bounty Hunter non-terminally yields 3 Coins at least 3 times in a standard Kingdom (Copper, Estate, Province) which ignores stuff like Duchies, Curses, Shelters or situationally Exiling a card you don't want anymore. It thins, sets aside Green, non-terminally provides Coins (which means that it is better than terminal Gold in SEVERAL WAYS the first 2 times you play it and yeah, I did intentionally ignore your weird argument that it is only a net 2 Coins as that implies that you do not want to thin Copper which is pretty much never the case; it is like saying that using Chapel to trash 4 Coppers is like taking 4D and thus worse than not killing those Coppers) and yet it is not broken.Bounty Hunter seemed utterly crazy when it came out but it’s not. So a terminal Gold is most definitely fine at $4. Also, if you play money and gain lots of Golds, discarding does not hurt. If you play an engine, you are unlikely to gain cards that costs more than $6. So all the card mainly hurts in an engine are Remodel strategies.
At $5 it can hardly compete with all the other terminal Golds.
Bounty Hunter is neither terminal nor a Gold, as it does not give +$3 unconditionally. IMO it's worse than a terminal Gold in Big Money games: It gives you +$3 only a single time (when exiling the first Estate; assuming no Shelters) until at least a shuffle after you have started greening. And even then, it only gives you +$3 when you're lucky to have it collide with a Victory card you haven't exiled yet.
(Exiling the first Copper only nets you +$2, and exiling further Coppers/Estates gives no economy at all.)
Also, there's several engine cards that cost $6 or more - Grand Market, Goons, King's Court,...
If an Action card is only good in BM where terminal space is not used, well, that is not really particularly impressive (especially not if the handsize Attack does not hurt that much unless you wanna talk about BM-Remodel games which is frankly far too specific/rare to be relevant). The very reason all those terminal Golds have been introduced during the later expansion is due the realization that terminal space is limited and that you rather use it to draw than to do something which Gold always does.
I was pretty sure that terminal Gold is OK at $4 before Menagerie. But after Bounty Hunter, it is pretty much definitely the case. The effects of all those terminal Golds at $5 are usually so good that they do not justify terminal Gold being in the $4.5 price space (familar from Fugitive, i.e. the card is too good at $4, that it is too weak at $5 is obvious).
982
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: June 02, 2020, 01:54:14 pm »
Bounty Hunter seemed utterly crazy when it came out but it’s not. So a terminal Gold is most definitely fine at $4. Also, if you play money and gain lots of Golds, discarding does not hurt. If you play an engine, you are unlikely to gain cards that costs more than $6. So all the card mainly hurts in an engine are Remodel strategies.
At $5 it can hardly compete with all the other terminal Golds.
At $5 it can hardly compete with all the other terminal Golds.
983
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 31, 2020, 04:16:05 pm »I like this. Terminal Gold is more or less a $4 and the Reaction (should it be an Attack like Black Cat?) is weak enough such that it is not overpowered.QuoteRecession (Action-Reaction, cost $4)
+$3
-
When a player gains a card costing $6 or more, you may reveal this, for each other player to discard down to 4 cards in hand. If it isn’t your turn, and you haven’t revealed a Recession since the start of your last turn, each other player takes their -1 Card token.
984
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 30, 2020, 02:26:49 am »This is far too strong. Your mistake was that you ignored that Nights are non-terminal, and non-terminally gaining 2 Horses is similar to a Lab. I play with a similar card which says "for each non-Horse card", otherwise lining them up quickly becomes crazy.
Here's my shot. I was thinking it might be too good at $3, but most of the time it'll only gain you 1-2 Horses, which is a less-than $2 ability. Works well with its combos, is weakish without them.QuoteSpurs - $4 Night
For each card you gained this turn, choose one: gain a Horse, or put a card from your hand onto your deck.
FAQ: No, you can't gain 1 horse with this card, then choose to gain a horse because of that horse, etc. The number of cards you gained is set by the first instruction before you gain the horses.
986
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 30, 2020, 12:33:38 am »
There is no „leaving it there“ clause so the card on the Tavern mat is played normally, i.e. it leaves the mat and is in your play area.
987
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: A card which helps whoever is losing the game
« on: May 29, 2020, 06:08:21 pm »Of the existing cards, I think Masquerade is the closest that exists. With Masquerade, the better player is more likely to be forced to pass away a good card than the worse player. It's random, but still slightly helps players behind.Masquerade changes the value of thinning over time. It is unrelated to being ahead or whatever. Valley Pass incentivizes engine play. Again unrelated to being ahead or whatever.
Some ideas:
- Foo - Project - At the end of the game, if you do not have the most amount of VP, +6 VP.
And for 3P+ games:
- Valley Pass - Landmark - When you are the first player to gain a province, each player picks a player besides themselves to gain 3 VP tokens.
As being ahead is not measurable (you can have the fewest VPs and win via a megaturn) it is impossible to design a card with effects that are conditional upon being ahead.
988
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 29, 2020, 04:39:18 pm »
I think it is fine as it is but I would delete the PP thing. You would never ever go for PP just to get this cheaper precisely because it is not cheaper.
989
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 29, 2020, 03:04:29 pm »I like the card and guess it is balanced. But I do not see the appeal of the double Potion costs as decks which want 2 Potions are extremely rare (occurs only with Alchemist or Vineyard).QuoteAonbarr • $4P • Action
Choose one or both:
+3 Cards; or +2 Actions.
If you chose both, return this to its pile.
Choose one: Gain a Horse; or
Exile a card from your hand.
-
Instead of paying this card's cost, you may pay PP
Alchemy + Menagerie. Named after a thing i found on the wikipedia list of mythical horses..
Does a little of everything in exchange for being either annoying to buy ($4P) or bad for your deck to buy (2 potions).
Thinking about changing the order of the choices so that exiling happens before you draw.
May still be too good for this price point. Maybe a potion + 8 debt (or two potions)?
Also, 8DP is arguably cheaper than $4P as there is no risk of not hitting the critical price point (which is one of the 3 downsides of Potion cards, the other being an extra dead card and the opportunity cost of spending a gain/Buy on Potion).
990
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 29, 2020, 02:54:10 pm »I'm pretty sure a Boon that just gained a Horse would already be a little better overall than Sea or River. Sea is awkward because most of the Fates are terminal actions or Idol so it often draws a dead action and the flexibility and tricks you can do with Horses gives it a higher ceiling than River. At least they seems similar enough that adding anything on top of a Horse seems out of line with the others.This. The net effects of Boons are often precisely on a $5 level power. But in the case of drawing cards, there is a huge difference between terminality and non–terminality.
991
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 29, 2020, 01:21:14 am »Not in the general context, here Animal Fair is a card that plays around with costs and can very well be put into one category with Fisherman and Destrier. That’s what Menagerie does, stuff with costs.Animal Fair is most definitely about playing with costs. Whether it is about a secondary cost or reducing the variable seems trivial. But like Ways the card is also about doing other stuff with Actions. Menagerie basically has the best defenses against Looters.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20260.0
Donald X. in the topic above:
"Animal Fair: The premise was the alternate cost"
I think "alternate cost" there is what you are calling "secondary cost" here. So it's not a trivial difference, it's in the essence of the card.
992
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 28, 2020, 05:12:57 pm »
Animal Fair is most definitely about playing with costs. Whether it is about a secondary cost or reducing the variable seems trivial. But like Ways the card is also about doing other stuff with Actions. Menagerie basically has the best defenses against Looters.
993
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 28, 2020, 03:19:16 pm »
Non–static costs is also a theme in Menagerie.
994
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Revolution
« on: May 26, 2020, 01:40:36 am »
While Throning a cantrip is a village, Throning a cantrip with Steam Engine (after the first one) is a Lost City . Even taking into account the expensive costs, that seems nutty, like a univeral Pathfinding & Lost Arts for all cards in your deck.
I guess the way to fix it is restrict it to x times.
I guess the way to fix it is restrict it to x times.
995
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 25, 2020, 12:26:59 pm »
Is a Harem (hard to achieve more than 2 VPs with this) that Exiles worth giving up a Fugitive and perhaps even a Buy?
Perhaps, but it is weak and sifting and Exiling and partial substitutes. I like the Cornucopia flavor though.
Perhaps, but it is weak and sifting and Exiling and partial substitutes. I like the Cornucopia flavor though.
996
Dominion General Discussion / Re: DeepMind for Dominion
« on: May 24, 2020, 09:15:01 am »Chess's AI friendly task is checkmate puzzle solving. But the way chess works, the really hard part happens before that even comes up, one player generates strong advantage before mating puzzles start to really be presented. So mostly chess was a matter of making the AI smart enough to win, with no calculator based advantages at all. I don't know go well but I expect it's a pretty similar story. I think it's possibly kind of true that the amount of time the AI had to not lose before it could start checkmate-puzzling off of information advantages is more generous in chess than in go, that is possibly the meaningful way of looking at it. It could just be that Go midgames are flat out harder, though.I don't think that this is how chess engines works. They have mainly become better due to the increase of speed of calculation and only partially due to the better design of the evaluation function. That's where humans are still far better.
The impressive thing about AlphaZero is that the machine tought itself how to play chess well without any human guidance and the resulting play is more human (e.g. less materialistic, sacrificing material for long-terman positionala advantages that are hard to evaluate and impossible to calculate to the end) than that of an ordinary chess engine.
Dominion seems far more tricky than a deterministic abstract like chess to me. It has stochastic elements, there are far more "pieces" and every game is different. I guess that DeepMind would have to play one Kingdom a zillion times over before it could move to the next one. Then it would have to learn to evaluate how the strength of a card changes during a game, partly depending on what the opponents do, and the "metagame", i.e. how the strength of a card varies among Kingdoms.
I guess it is possible but this seems like something a human mind can learn much faster, albeit less perfectly.
997
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 23, 2020, 05:35:57 pm »That is not correct. Without the overpay mechanism the card is much stronger with TfB cards, especially Remodel variants which can directly transform it into a Province. This is why I think that the overpay variant is superior.The previous version was fine, you pay $6 to get a $6 onto your deck and a Silver. Might favour BM but it might also be situationally OK for engines.
The new version is crazy, you pay $6 and get a $6 onto your deck plus a card which is worth $5. Although you don’t want too any copies of it, +2 Coffers is pretty strong on a Treasure and you definitely want it far more often than a Silver.
What I said about previous version is that there's no need to it be a card with overpay in cost, since there would be no demand for a buy without overpay. It could simply cost $6 with the same results.
998
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 23, 2020, 01:52:02 am »
The previous version was fine, you pay $6 to get a $6 onto your deck and a Silver. Might favour BM but it might also be situationally OK for engines.
The new version is crazy, you pay $6 and get a $6 onto your deck plus a card which is worth $5. Although you don’t want too any copies of it, +2 Coffers is pretty strong on a Treasure and you definitely want it far more often than a Silver.
The new version is crazy, you pay $6 and get a $6 onto your deck plus a card which is worth $5. Although you don’t want too any copies of it, +2 Coffers is pretty strong on a Treasure and you definitely want it far more often than a Silver.
999
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 22, 2020, 01:31:01 pm »
Not that it matters except for Villa and Calalry but technically it is a Lost City.
1000
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: May 22, 2020, 12:25:05 pm »Looks far too strong compared to other >$4 gainers. It might even be overpowered if it did not yield any Coins.QuoteDivine Favor (Treasure, cost $6)Okay. This card needs a little explaining. I’m assuming Dominion is in a fantasy, D&D-esque world where the gods give favors in exchange for temple service. Favors are probably the currency of gods to mortals.
$2
Gain a Wish from its pile. You may trash this, to put the gained Wish on your deck.