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801
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 26, 2020, 06:35:10 pm »
This increases the draw power of Stables by 3. That is beyond crazy.
It increases it by 2
No. 2 Horses plus handgaining one equals an increase of draw power by 3.

A QuadrupleLab which you can trigger more than once per turn is not something you should really do. Just make it gain one Horse and the entire thing is fine.

802
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 26, 2020, 06:30:15 pm »
This increases the draw power of Stables by 3. That is beyond crazy.

803
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest
« on: August 25, 2020, 09:59:39 am »
I happen to agree that sea hag is a fine design, but I think talking about power level is looking at the wrong spectrum. Cards generally aren't fun or unfun base solely on power level. If you doubt this, just look at donate.
Well, sure, but how fun a card is lies in the eyes of the beholder.
It is much easier to get consensus on more objective criteria, like the swinginess of Tournament or the massive underpowerdness of Spy.

804
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest
« on: August 25, 2020, 09:52:01 am »
2) It is really, really, good. You need to buy it in the opening or else you will drown in curses.
That is a general statement about junkers; Sea Hag is not more mandatory than any other one.
Ironically the other Seaside card you mentioned, Ambassador, is a card you can skip far less frequently than Sea Hag.

In general I do frankly not understand these old Saboteur-style arguments. Either the card is too weak because it does not do anything vanilla or it is too strong and the fact that it does not do vanilla is irrelevant.
You cannot argue that a card is strong and complain that it lacks vanilla at the same time.

805
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest
« on: August 25, 2020, 09:30:25 am »
It's not bad as in weak, however it does have design issues, since it doesn't produce resources and can take over games.
What is "take over games" supposed to mean?

Sea Hag is not merey totally fine as it is but actually one of the more interesting Cursers.
It is basically Cursing plus the equivalent of the -1 Card token Attack from Relic. That's why it does not do anything for you, it already does enough bad things for the other dudes.

So how about nerfing overpowered Attacks like Torturer, Cultist, Mountebank or Coven instead of messing with the good Attack in the game?

806
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 25, 2020, 02:40:39 am »
Bale (for Harvest):

Utterly lunatic with Copper trashing in multiplayer games (where you don’t get that many Actions anyway).
Is it worth too many VPs? Should I bring it back to 4/-1 instead of 5/-2?
I’d do a straightforward Tunnel variant with fixed 2VPs because I prefer player scale invariant cards. But this just boring me.

807
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 24, 2020, 04:25:35 pm »
Bale (for Harvest):

Utterly lunatic with Copper trashing in multiplayer games (where you don’t get that many Actions anyway).

808
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 24, 2020, 07:09:01 am »
I should reduce the cost, so the mine doesn't get you a gold (and a silver) right away. For the rest: Nice card.
Jumping from Canary to beyond Silver (there are sometimes $5 Treasures which you prefer over Gold) is half of the point of the card!
The Throne might sometimes very well be used for something else than Mine; e.g. if you still have an Action left, you might want to replay your Smithy instead of your Mine.

I know, But I think that can lead to an overpowered turn early, with to much variance if it will happen. If you are luck with a 2/5 spiltt and then again with the canarie, you are a little to far ahead. You can also get a gold if it just cost 2. (trash, gain a silver, trash again, gain a gold)
Again, that is the very point of the Heirloom: to make a very weak card decent and viable.

If Alice opens 4-3 with Moneylender while Bob opens 5-2 with Mine and no decent $2 in the Kingdom, Alice is actually ahead economy-wise after the first shuffle (and that is not taking into account the risk that Mine and Canary might not match).
The only advantage of Mine-Canary is that you get a Gold.

Does not seem crazy or overpowered to me at all but rather sounds like, well, how Mine should have been power-wise from the get-go (I think that it would be too weak even at $4).

809
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 24, 2020, 07:01:54 am »
I should reduce the cost, so the mine doesn't get you a gold (and a silver) right away. For the rest: Nice card.
Jumping from Canary to beyond Silver (there are sometimes $5 Treasures which you prefer over Gold) is half of the point of the card!
The Throne might sometimes very well be used for something else than Mine; e.g. if you still have an Action left, you might want to replay your Smithy instead of your Mine.

I know, But I think that can lead to an overpowered turn early, with to much variance if it will happen. If you are luck with a 2/5 spiltt and then again with the canarie, you are a little to far ahead. You can also get a gold if it just cost 2. (trash, gain a silver, trash again, gain a gold)
Again, that is the very point of the Heirloom: to make a very weak card decent and viable.

810
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 24, 2020, 04:07:57 am »
I should reduce the cost, so the mine doesn't get you a gold (and a silver) right away. For the rest: Nice card.
Jumping from Canary to beyond Silver (there are sometimes $5 Treasures which you prefer over Gold) is half of the point of the card!
The Throne might sometimes very well be used for something else than Mine; e.g. if you still have an Action left, you might want to replay your Smithy instead of your Mine.

811
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 24, 2020, 02:19:25 am »
Haggler is brilliant at getting Lab variants because your Gold or Province always comes with one. Somehow nobody is complaining about Haggler being overpowered though.
About getting junkers or trashers instead of Tormentor, I obviously meant trashers/junkers at $5.

The comparison with Cathedral, Goons and Stockpile is pretty weird. This is about Tormentor with Rack vs Tormentor without Rack. Neither of the two versions of Tormentor is as game-warping as the ones you mentioned.
So far the argument has boiled down to, well, that Tormentor is buffed and that this is boring because you will now always go for Tormentor. It is entirely related to power level, the first version is not strategically more deep than the second version.

I totally agree that that buff might be too much. But it is the most natural way to buff a weak card, just like your cut idea was a pretty natural way to nerf Governor.

812
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 23, 2020, 06:18:52 pm »
Imps are just so good

Maybe I wouldn't exactly say that it's strong generically. I'd say it's strong to open with because of Imps, pretty strong early, ok overall, and well-designed because getting imps is hard. With the modification, it's very strong at every point and pretty boring.

the powerlevel question seems noncentral though; the point is that it takes away interesting decisions.
Which interesting decision is taken away? Be concrete, what would you do with the Heirloom that you would not do otherwise (except getting Tormentor more often which is not about decisions but the power level of the card).

Tormentor is a very weak $5 which you will never ever buy early if there is a junker or trasher. You will only buy it later if you got the terminal space for a terminal Silver with a weak Attack on top, which is quite rare.
 Of course gaining Imps is very strong (but then again, with Lab variants in the Kingdom, Haggler can do the very same thing far more consistently) but you cannot pull that off often with Tormentor so why not buff it? It is not like we talk about buffing Mountebank, Cultist, Coven or some other ridiculously overpowered Attack but buffing a very weak and random Attack.

There is a reason so many Hex Attacks violate the terminal Attack principle: the Attack is weak and random. Nobody would e.g. ever get Skulk because of the Attack, you either want the Gold or are in dire need of the extra Buy. The Hex Attack never matters decisions-wise.

813
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 23, 2020, 05:12:25 pm »
It also makes Tormentor much stronger, and it's plenty strong already.
What makes you assume that Tormentor is strong?

The Attack option is extremely weak. For example Witch has a better vanilla bonus and a far better Attack.
As the Imp option is only possible to trigger early in the game or later, if you forsake engine play and Durations (which is kinda pointless if you want Imp!), it hardly compensates for the weak Attack.

Tormentor is weak and Villagers are a pretty natural way to buff it.

814
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 23, 2020, 06:49:08 am »


An Heirloom for Highway. At first I wanted to do kind of the inverse, a Bridge Heirloom for Market, but it felt fairly random as any card with +1 Buy wants it.
Slightly controversial as Highway is often a powerhouse anyway and as the Heirloom makes the opening slower.


EDIT: Added the Duration type. Thanks to spineflu who noted it!

815
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 22, 2020, 10:42:06 am »
Isn’t it obvious? You always do as much as you can. If there is 1 VP on a Landmark, you just take 1 instead of 2.
And if you put a VP on a Landmark that does not interact with VPs on it, well, then it does not interact with it.
I just think that adding to landmarks is weird and outside of the rules and shouldn't be touched. It should stick to just adding to gathering piles. You'd also need lots of explanation in the rulebook...
I disagree, putting a token on a landscape is quite simple and straightforward.

816
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 22, 2020, 07:58:48 am »
Isn’t it obvious? You always do as much as you can. If there is 1 VP on a Landmark, you just take 1 instead of 2.
And if you put a VP on a Landmark that does not interact with VPs on it, well, then it does not interact with it.

817
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 22, 2020, 05:37:57 am »
I like the idea but as Temple games can lead to around 20 VPs or so anywa, this might be too centralizing.

818
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 21, 2020, 06:43:39 pm »
I think the problem with Thief and Copperfield isn't powerlevel but swinginess.

Since copperfield is strong, I expect that the card will just be extremely frustrating since you can lose 10 VP if it gets stolen. Not fun.

Rewarding Thief for hitting Coppers is a good idea. Being able to steal the entire payload is a terrible idea. The fix seems obvious: make Copperfield unaffected by Thief. (How to do this, I'm not sure, but there are several ways.)
I like to add that this is not academic: I once had Locusts on my Pasture and it hurt.

819
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Card updating contest
« on: August 19, 2020, 05:11:02 pm »
There are only a dozen or so over- and underpowered cards but I like this idea.

820
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 19, 2020, 05:03:59 pm »
“Okay, overall, all these choices seem to average around , so that’s what it should cost.”

Ironmonger also shows that this averaging-the-effects method doesn't necessarily make you arrive at a correct price. Depending on what it reveals, Ironmonger is either a Village+ (), a Peddler+ (), or a Lab+ (), which averages out to , which is higher than its cost (this is because you don't have full control over the effect, and the strongest effect is also the rarest).

When you just get to directly choose which effect your card has, then it has to cost at least as much as the maximum "effect-cost." In the case of Wager, you could just choose to always use the Lab- () effect, so it has to cost at least , even without the strictly-better-than-Village comparison. I'd even argue that Wager should actually cost , since Lab with is probably worth , and Wager is strictly better than that, enough so to probably cost .
That is a quite brilliant point about Ironmonger.

About Wager, I find it very hard to evaluate. Asper had a Lab that comes with 1D for $3. I don’t know if it was balanced but the choice between the effect of two $3s doesn’t smell like a $5. Hard to say.
On the other hand, there is the third option use this as dead-terminal draw. In the absence of Villagers, only something for money decks and in Platinum Kingdoms it might be a real thing.

I think that this very third option, albeit perhaps only sometimes useful, is what might push this into $5 territory.
On a meta-level, the card should obviously get rid of the village part and focus on debt->money, that is interesting enough in itself without further complications.

821
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 19, 2020, 10:34:26 am »
This is like saying that Mining Village would be fine at $3 because, duh, what kind of idiot blow ups his village.
Contrary to your claim, the card is Village plus something. The first part is village, then you can either skip the second part or, if you want to, use the extra part.

It does not matter what the extra option is or that it involves converting one resource into another or whatever. The extra option is valuable and thus has to be priced in.

This is nothing controversial but Dominion 101: all villages with a cherry on top cost more than $3.

822
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 19, 2020, 09:54:59 am »
First of all, this is strictly better than Village.
Second, even at $4 it might be too strong. If you had to spend the Action to draw it would be OK.

I don’t think it’s strictly better than Village.
Dude, it is a Village with an extra, non-mandatory option.
That is most definitely strictly better, so it has to cost at least $4.

823
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 19, 2020, 08:38:31 am »
A quick idea of a Forge variant for a late entry.

Smelting Pot
Cost
Trash at least one card from your hand. You may gain any number of differently named cards whose total cost is not greater than the total cost of the cards trashed.
This is strictly better than Forge yet massively cheaper. Scripted opening.

824
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 19, 2020, 05:04:40 am »
I am so terribly sorry to post this so late, but I was still not satisfied with my entry, so I narrowed it to this:



Now, regardless if there still are some small hiccups with Wager V3, I'll leave it as is.
First of all, this is strictly better than Village.
Second, even at $4 it might be too strong. If you had to spend the Action to draw it would be OK.

825
Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« on: August 18, 2020, 06:10:06 pm »
First time you play this, you take the Villagers. That is after the first shuffle.
Second time you play this, you use the Villagers to trash two cards. That is after the second shuffle.
The whole thing is nearly equivalent to playing on average a terminal that trashes one card, except that it is slightly worse as you could not trash during T3-T5.

This sucks. Of course you might use the card if there is no other splitter or trasher but it is pretty bad at either job.

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