Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: Insomniac on January 14, 2013, 01:53:43 pm
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Welcome to ZMXI : The Fool on the Hill - Sees the Sun Going Down
This game will start on Monday January 21st if there is at least 9 players signed up. It will use a setup that I have been working on and am just finalizing touches on before I post it here.
This game can accomodate any number of players so long as there is at least 9.
Players Signed Up:
1 - Robz - Villager
2 - Eevee - Witch
3 - mcmcsalot
4 - TheMunch - Villager
5 - Archetype
6 - Axxle
7 - Jimmmmm - Villager
8 - Drab Emordnilap - Villager
9 - Galzria - Fool
Backup Mod(s): Voltgloss, Ashersky, Jorbles
Blitz Mafia Ruleset Changes in RED BECAUSE RED GOES FASTER
Game Rules:
General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind. Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action your choices are due to me by the posted deadline (generally 12 HOUR DEADLINES from Night start). If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase.
Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1.Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will have 24 HOUR deadlines. If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, the player with most votes currently on them will be lynched, and the game will go into night.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
9. Do not edit or delete posts. We don't want some players having more information than others. If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 72 hours of no activity or upon request after 48 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice. - Rule Cut
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.[/s] - RULE CUT
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.
Helpful Links:
- Main Wiki Page (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page)
- Newbie Guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)
- Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=FAQ)
- Commonly Used Abbreviations (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Commonly_used_abbreviations)
- Mafia Theory (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theory)
Game Setup
TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.
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- Nightless
- Witches have Daychat
- There are 2 Witches
- There are also 2 fools
- Witches CAN discuss pregame what ability each of them takes
- In the event that 2 players are tied for the most votes at deadline, hidden democracy will be used.
You are a Witch!
Damned those cursed villagers! Each and every night they'd hold a party, and they bit their damn village above your lair. It was so hard to get a moments rest with the villagers partying. You and your witch friends needed a plan to silence them, to demand their respect. You were so tired you had started to feel ill all the time and your complexion had turned green! You remember a time when you had won a beauty pageant with nothing but compliments on your complexion. Now when ever someone saw you they shrieked and called you a Witch. Well this was to happen no more, you would regain your complexion and the village would pay. You abducted the children of the village to make a point but if they didn't treat you better well you just might eat the children.
Partner(s):
Team QT:
Powers:Before the game you may choose one of the following powers. (Note you and your partner CAN choose the same ability)
A) Bulletproof - Any attempt to shoot you will fail
B) Investigate Proof - Any attempt to investigate you will return village aligned.
Additionally during the day you and your teammate may make a bold command to "Nightkill" a player, at the day end the last noted nightkill is used and that player killed. If no nightkill has been stated during the day or "Nightkill: None" has been stated, no one will die.
Win Condition: You win when the Witches make up half the town or nothing can stop that from happening
Note please confirm receipt of this role along with your choice in your QT
You are a Fool!
When you were younger you happened into some money when your parents died and you've never had to work. Every morning you come up to the same hill because at the top is the only place near by that you can away from the incessant noise of the village, not to mention you can THINK. You like to contemplate life, love and the infinite you would call yourself a forward thinker while everyone else thinks you're a fool. On a good day if you close your eyes you feel as though you can see the world spinning round. Today the village came to you and asked you to help them, supposedly the hags that live below the village had abducted the children. Well you are nothing if not flexible and you would be damned if you were going to sit idly by.
Powers:Before the game you may choose one of the following powers
A) 1-Shot Day 2 Day-Cop - Once during day 2 you may pm the mod the name of a player to investigate, the mod will tell you if they are village or scum
B) 1-Shot Day 2 Vigilante - Once during day 2 you may pm the mod the name of a player to kill, that player will die.
C) 1-Shot Day 2 Neighbourizer - You get daychat but will not be told the alignment of the person you neighbourize
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the village have been eliminated and at least one person aligned with the village is alive
Note please confirm receipt of this role along with your choice by PM
You are a Villager!
Every morning there are two fools from your village that go up to the top of a hill. You've never figured out why they do this but you've also never needed them more. Last night the Witches came into your town and abducted all of the children. It had been a long time since they attacked the village but you won't stand idly by as they steal your children.
Powers: None your weapon is your vote, use it wisely
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the village have been eliminated and at least one person aligned with the village is alive
Note please confirm receipt of this role by PM
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Hihihi, yes.
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Confirming auto-in.
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/tag to follow
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/follow and stat keeping as well
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/tag to follow
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If it's just going to be me and Robz, there'll be no hostile fighting and it's just all going to be boring.
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If it's just going to be me and Robz, there'll be no hostile fighting and it's just all going to be boring.
I was thinking this as well but it'll start later if that's the case as we need 9 for what I have in mind to be balanced
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Also alot of the people who I suspect will want in are playing in ZMX so I suspect we'll get some in's once that finishes.
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Hello good chum Eevee, are you the scum here? Oh you most be, chap. Tea and biscuits before lynching?
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Hello good chum Eevee, are you the scum here? Oh you most be, chap. Tea and biscuits before lynching?
Golly, yes!
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oh beatles flavor! something I understand hurrah /in
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Haven't read flavor. Was going to out of a bunch of mafia games. Must redeem terrible play in ZX. /in. Will read flavor/details later.
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tag to follow. miiiiight in. idk.
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tag. busy.
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May in for this. I'll see if I can make some time for it.
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May in for this. I'll see if I can make some time for it.
Ooh, actually. I do have time to be in this.
/in!
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FWIW, I'm back-up mod now and got to do a looksie of the set-up...and wish I could in!
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Tiny spoiler added to second post, stay tuned for more!
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FWIW, I'm back-up mod now and got to do a looksie of the set-up...and wish I could in!
If it goes over as well as I think this setup will I'll run it again ;)
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Intrigued by the flavour names. I may or may not play depending on how much the spoilers grab me. If my part in the last blitz game tells us anything, it's that blitz games are very difficult for those of us with a much different time zone than most people.
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Intrigued by the flavour names. I may or may not play depending on how much the spoilers grab me. If my part in the last blitz game tells us anything, it's that blitz games are very difficult for those of us with a much different time zone than most people.
Quick! Is Jimmmm sleeping yet?
Vote: Jimmm
C'mon people, we're on a time table here! Gotta get this lynch in before he wakes up! Chop chop! Hurry it up!
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Intrigued by the flavour names. I may or may not play depending on how much the spoilers grab me. If my part in the last blitz game tells us anything, it's that blitz games are very difficult for those of us with a much different time zone than most people.
Quick! Is Jimmmm sleeping yet?
Vote: Jimmm
C'mon people, we're on a time table here! Gotta get this lynch in before he wakes up! Chop chop! Hurry it up!
Humph. :P
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Fool is another word for Jester.
Uh-oh.
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Jimm would you /in already I need someone to find intrinsically scummy and tunnel over for the whole game!
Also I think as far as blitz goes eevee has strongly supported me every game, first time he's scum and I'm town were so screwed.
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No worries, Eevee is never scum.
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No worries, Eevee is never scum.
To elaborate further, he's just much too nice, and the dice simply refuse to roll it for him.
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Eevee was scum once. He just claimed it right off the bat and hammered himself. It was so nice.[/]
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Yeah, across 24 (Including Arcana II) games, Eevee has been scum just 3 times. In his first ever game, M-III, and then twice just recently in ZM-IX and Arcana II. And that's it for "normal" games.
He's rolled scum in RMM as well, but that doesn't count.
Moral of the story - treat Eevee like an IC, and just accept the losses when he rolls scum. Losing only 12.5% of your games to a misplaced faith is really not bad, considering most people average out around a 50% win rate. And the rest the time you know you've got a town buddy to rely on!
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Finally someone gets it!
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Vote: eevee
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Role PM's further spoiled. Flavour added, Villager spoiled in it's entirety except for where it gives away more information about other things.
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A note to those hoping to see the whole setup before they decide, the final spoiler will not be released until the game is full, and the thread locked.
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/in
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Jimm would you /in already I need someone to find intrinsically scummy and tunnel over for the whole game!
Alright alright, /in if you promise not to lynch me in my sleep!
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Final spoiler before thread lock is up
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- Nightless
- Mafia have Daychat
- There are 2 Witches
- There are also 2 fools
Should this say Witches have Daychat?
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Also, I'm guessing Villagers aren't supposed to have "along with your choice"?
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Yaaaaay, I love nightlss games, it is even less complicated for me to follow.
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I have no idea what your talking about Jimmmmm ::)
Ok maybe I fixed them
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I have no idea what your talking about Jimmmmm ::)
Ok maybe I fixed them
You're welcome. 8)
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Are the Witches allowed to discuss their choices before they make them?
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Bump. Comon guys we need 2 more!
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Unless we get a spur of sign ups it looks like this wont start till Tuesday or Wednesday. (I will only start it on a mom tues or wed)
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I really can't do this if it starts Monday. If it starts Tuesday or Wednesday, I'll reevaluate.
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I can only do it Monday. So if it starts later in the week, it's going to be an /out for me.
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I can only do it Monday. So if it starts later in the week, it's going to be an /out for me.
It depends as we need two more asap to start this today.
I really can't do this if it starts Monday. If it starts Tuesday or Wednesday, I'll reevaluate.
This is more likely the case but we'll still need two if you in as Archetype would have to out.
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I want to play Mafia. I impel this game to start. Magically. With my mind.
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I want to play Mafia. I impel this game to start. Magically. With my mind.
hooray! If you like this, you should join the newbie game!
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hooray! If you like this, you should join the newbie game!
I don't want to take the slot away from a new player.
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I want to play Mafia. I impel this game to start. Magically. With my mind.
Are you in?
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Yessssssssss
ssssss 8)
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Final spoiler is ready to be posted just need one more to join so I can send PM's and get this underway once we get confirms.
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At Insomniac's request, and since I've now got Noir up and going again (freeing myself up), I'll /in as well. It's been nice to have like, 4 days where I didn't have to read a single page of mafia and make decisions. But I guess that's a long enough "vacation".
Back to it.
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At Insomniac's request, and since I've now got Noir up and going again (freeing myself up), I'll /in as well. It's been nice to have like, 4 days where I didn't have to read a single page of mafia and make decisions. But I guess that's a long enough "vacation".
Back to it.
Hurray
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THREAD LOCKED. Final spoiler going up PM's going out game start once confirms and choices are recieved.
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I need a sub for one player please PM me if interested thread still locked.
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Replacement found! Thanks Axxle.
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This thread is still locked, I have forum unlocked it so that the co-mods can start the game if the last confirms come in while I am away, they have been giving the opening game flavour.
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All confirms in, we'll start this in the morning. Thread still locked.
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To clarify there is NO nights, the Witches must have their kill in before the day end, the next day starts immediately.
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I knew the names the other people had called me behind my back fool, insane and crazy to name only a few of the more tame. I preferred to spend my time thinking about the things that really mattered life, love and the infinite. At an early age I came into money when my parents died this had allowed me to spend my time doing as I pleased rather than doing someone elses bidding. The town was noisy that I had chosen to live in though and as such I regularily went to the top of a nearby hill to escape the headache that had become the village life. On most days I stayed up here until the sun went down, and when I tried really hard I swear I could almost hear the earth spinning round.
The noise wasn't only a nuisance to me, there were some witches that lived underneath the city that it caused some grief.
There were 2 others like me who spent their days atop this hill. They were my brothers and we did not bother each other. I recently told them I felt the Witches would strike a revolt and that I was going to make my way up the nearby mountain and had built a hut up there. The other 2 did not feel as sure of the revolt and had decided to stay in the Village.
I looked down today and saw that the Witches had kidnapped the children of the village. A horrible shame, the witches must have grown tired of the noise that the village made day in and day out making it hard for the witches underneath to get some shut eye. The villagers had ventured up the hill and asked my brothers if they would be so kind as to lend a hand. My brothers as kind spirited as they are did not even hestitate before saying they would help even after all the town had done to them.
Together the villagers along with the fools ventured down into the town with the intent of finding some witches. Only the witches had the power to look just like any of you and that would make the task at hand quite difficult.
Vote Count 1-0
Not Voting (9) - Robz, Eevee, mcmcsalot, TheMunch, Archetype, Axxle, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria
(Axxle has replaced Jotheonah)
Day 1 Start! Thread Unlocked!
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Vote: Galzria. Hes in this game, right?
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Hello and welcome Drab!
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Deadline is 8:30am PST (11:30 forum time) Wednesday January 23rd, 2013
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Look, a new game.
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I suppose I should actually take the time to read the setup. But I'm lazy and want coffee.
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Vote: Galzria
Let's do our first RVS lynch! (I assume? Haven't read every game to be sure)
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Vote: Galzria. Hes in this game, right?
Do we do random voting? In a blitz game with no minimum to lynch?
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vote: robz you might be able to trick them, but I know the truth.
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Galzria? Nooo!
PPE: Oh, the new guy with the voice of reason!
PPE2: Is he sending you weird vibes through the wall or something?
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And here I thought this was going to be a serious game.
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ring ring ring ring ring ring ring
bananaphone
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FIRST UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT WOO
Galzria (2) - TheMunch, Axxle
Robz (1) - mcmcsalot
Not Voting (6) - Robz, Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria
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Haha no eevee that would be quite a long way to send vibes we live quite far away when we aren't at our parents house aka Christmas. But robz has let's say a "history" with witches...
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Haha no eevee that would be quite a long way to send vibes we live quite far away when we aren't at our parents house aka Christmas. But robz has let's say a "history" with witches...
NOW I'm interested.
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I suppose I should actually take the time to read the setup. But I'm lazy and want coffee.
5 VT, 2 town PR, 2 scum
town PR are each either oneshot day 2 vig, or oneshot day 2 cop
scum are either bulletproof or uninvestigatable (oneshot?)
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I suppose I should actually take the time to read the setup. But I'm lazy and want coffee.
5 VT, 2 town PR, 2 scum
town PR are each either oneshot day 2 vig, or oneshot day 2 cop
scum are either bulletproof or uninvestigatable (oneshot?)
Scum aren't one shot, town can also be day 2 neighborizer
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Vote: Drab
Clearly feigning not knowing the setup as scum.
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(incidentally also the reason I voted Galz)
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(incidentally also the reason I voted Galz)
I actually never bothered to read it. I hadn't been planning on playing this game until the last minute, when Insomniac PM'd me asking me to join so he could launch it. /shrug
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Preach to the choir more why don't you. I also only replaced in since he asked me to, but still bothered to read the setup.
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Now where do I want my vote to be?
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Preach to the choir more why don't you. I also only replaced in since he asked me to, but still bothered to read the setup.
To each his own. I'll get around to it eventually here.
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Obviously I read the setup, that's why I knew what the roles were. :/
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I thought this was Blitz Mafia, where is everyone? Need more votes on this guy!
Vote: Galzria
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Obviously I read the setup, that's why I knew what the roles were. :/
I meant it sounded like you were trying to pretend only having barely remembered the roles.
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Does blitz mafia mean "lynch the people who are talking"?
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Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
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Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
Well, at least they know the scum can't block it?
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Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
Sounds.. really bad?
Drab is like a pretty solid town read on me considering the little we have to go on. I'm assuming the vote on him was a joke?
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Galz is doing nothing to progress the game. Classic actilurking.
Neighborizer is the best way to make the PR an IC.
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Considering how quickly it's bounced around, I assume it was either a joke or fishing for a freak out from me.
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Unvote!!!
Ahhhh Why with the RVS lynching of Galz. No no no. It was just supposed to be a joke! From the last game where he did things and stuff!
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I suppose I should actually take the time to read the setup. But I'm lazy and want coffee.
5 VT, 2 town PR, 2 scum
town PR are each either oneshot day 2 vig, or oneshot day 2 cop
scum are either bulletproof or uninvestigatable (oneshot?)
Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
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Welp, Munch/Galz scumteam. GG everyone, call me when the lynches go through.
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
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Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
Well, at least they know the scum can't block it?
Yeah, but they've no idea if they find town or scum with it. So it's really quite pointless as far as I can tell.
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Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
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Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
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Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
But then you can go all wine on it and say that the Witches know that both Fools will choose Vig, and so take bulletproof to be immune to that.
On the other hand, if a Vig shoots someone and they don't die, the vig can roleclaim knowing they shot at a Witch.
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Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
Ooh, this makes sense. Seems highly possibly indeed. Don't know how that's going to be useful for us though?
I'm off to bed, back tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have to make a long catch up post!
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
This feels like words to take up space. "I think this thing now that I probably won't think later"? What's the purpose of that? If you have a reason, that's good, but you should share it with the town.
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Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
But then you can go all wine on it and say that the Witches know that both Fools will choose Vig, and so take bulletproof to be immune to that.
On the other hand, if a Vig shoots someone and they don't die, the vig can roleclaim knowing they shot at a Witch.
That's exactly his point, which I completely agree with. Because if a Vig shoots and BP Witch, it's as good as taking Cop and finding scum. So there would never be any reason for a PR to take Cop.
From the scum perspective, I slightly disagree with Munch. I think they would take BP, since they would know that it makes little sense for the PR's to choose cop. And even if the PR's DO choose Cop, the result is essentially the same. They're caught if shot, and they're caught if investigated. Being BP however, means that they don't die straight out if shot, so they at least get the chance to argue their case or claim the PR is lying scum.
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Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
But then you can go all wine on it and say that the Witches know that both Fools will choose Vig, and so take bulletproof to be immune to that.
On the other hand, if a Vig shoots someone and they don't die, the vig can roleclaim knowing they shot at a Witch.
That's exactly his point, which I completely agree with. Because if a Vig shoots and BP Witch, it's as good as taking Cop and finding scum. So there would never be any reason for a PR to take Cop.
From the scum perspective, I slightly disagree with Munch. I think they would take BP, since they would know that it makes little sense for the PR's to choose cop. And even if the PR's DO choose Cop, the result is essentially the same. They're caught if shot, and they're caught if investigated. Being BP however, means that they don't die straight out if shot, so they at least get the chance to argue their case or claim the PR is lying scum.
Addendum:
The only reason a PR would take Cop over Vig, is if they weren't confident in their ability to find scum, and would rather find and confirm a town player then worry about killing a town player. In this case, it's a guess for the scum as to if they want to risk being killed by a Vig, or cleared by a Cop (Cops get a "town" result on an investigative immune scum, right? Not "No Result", which would essentially be "scum"?).
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B) Investigate Proof - Any attempt to investigate you will return village aligned.
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
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B) Investigate Proof - Any attempt to investigate you will return village aligned.
Yeah, exactly.
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
:eyeroll:
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Too much setup talk, not enough scumhunting.
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Robz, Archetype, Jimmmmm are the losers who can't be bothered to play in the first hour of a new mafia game. :P
I wouldn't have the gumption to pay out the first vote of the game, as scum, on the only other scum. Even if your buddy gets the rope, you don't get any town points because your vote was random anyways.
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
There were 2 more votes I believe. I was not comfortable with rvs l-2 for no reason when I just did it as a joke.
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Robz, Archetype, Jimmmmm are the losers who can't be bothered to play in the first hour of a new mafia game. :P
I wouldn't have the gumption to pay out the first vote of the game, as scum, on the only other scum. Even if your buddy gets the rope, you don't get any town points because your vote was random anyways.
But then you get people like you who just gave him town cred...
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
There were 2 more votes I believe. I was not comfortable with rvs l-2 for no reason when I just did it as a joke.
I voted for him twice.
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And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
There were 2 more votes I believe. I was not comfortable with rvs l-2 for no reason when I just did it as a joke.
I voted for him twice.
Then my bad. I would rather quickly unvote and be wrong than have there be any accidents.
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But then you get people like you who just gave him town cred...
Well, if he is scum, he's a much stronger player than I am.
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What's your opinion on me?
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What's your opinion on me?
You're a big meaniehead who voted for me. :P
I feel like you're throwing around accusations to see what sticks, and nothing's really stuck so far. But at least you're talking.
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From the scum perspective, I slightly disagree with Munch. I think they would take BP, since they would know that it makes little sense for the PR's to choose cop. And even if the PR's DO choose Cop, the result is essentially the same. They're caught if shot, and they're caught if investigated. Being BP however, means that they don't die straight out if shot, so they at least get the chance to argue their case or claim the PR is lying scum.
I was actually thinking about this as I was typing stuff up. If both cop and vig both end up working like cops, then they can force mislynches. Also they can ensure that if they die, it has to happen during the day which might be important later in the game. I'm now not so sure. I guess we'll know more as things actually happen.
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But then you get people like you who just gave him town cred...
Well, if he is scum, he's a much stronger player than I am.
Awwww. Gee thanks.
That being said I dont think I should get any town cred for an RVS vote on Galz who may or may not be my scum buddy for a nothing reason that Axxle said. That is way too far down the rabbit hole.
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What's your opinion on me?
Scum read on Axxle.
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Why does it matter what the Witches and the PRs *should* have taken? All that matters is what they *did* take.
What's your opinion on me?
Scum read on Axxle.
Why?
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Why does it matter what the Witches and the PRs *should* have taken? All that matters is what they *did* take.
What's your opinion on me?
Scum read on Axxle.
Why?
You just keep talking and I'll let you know if it changes.
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I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason. Nice to see new guy Drab is an active contributor.
I... don't know that it's so obvious that scum/PR would pick the powers you think they'll pick. I think it does make sense that the Fools should have picked Vig, but I think you have contemplate it pretty hard to arrive at that conclusion. I'll guess the scum split between Bp and Investigative Immune, at least.
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Jeez guys I eat lunch and were all seriouse now. I didn't even get to make a pun about letting my comment about robz brew...
Anywho getting down to business axle looks a hell of a lot like Joth did in last blitz game coming out of the gate so hot. I tend to think in blitz mislynches are easily forced and its quite a strong scum gambit to push for players.
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I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason. Nice to see new guy Drab is an active contributor.
I... don't know that it's so obvious that scum/PR would pick the powers you think they'll pick. I think it does make sense that the Fools should have picked Vig, but I think you have contemplate it pretty hard to arrive at that conclusion. I'll guess the scum split between Bp and Investigative Immune, at least.
You can read into how long I thought about PRs as much or as little as you want :D
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-snip-
You just keep talking and I'll let you know if it changes.
I see what you did there.
I... don't know that it's so obvious that scum/PR would pick the powers you think they'll pick. I think it does make sense that the Fools should have picked Vig, but I think you have contemplate it pretty hard to arrive at that conclusion. I'll guess the scum split between Bp and Investigative Immune, at least.
I think it's anti town to speculate anyway since I think it gives scum a better idea of how they want to fakeclaim.
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Nice to see new guy Drab is an active contributor.
I've played a reasonable amount of Mafia, for what it's worth. Just not here. Or on mafiascum. Or anywhere else I'll admit to.
But it happened! It was real.
Also, is there any reason that, if a town vig hits and doesn't kill a witch, they shouldn't claim themselves right away? The only people who would have any incentive to lie about that would be scum anyways.
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Nice to see new guy Drab is an active contributor.
I've played a reasonable amount of Mafia, for what it's worth. Just not here. Or on mafiascum. Or anywhere else I'll admit to.
But it happened! It was real.
Also, is there any reason that, if a town vig hits and doesn't kill a witch, they shouldn't claim themselves right away? The only people who would have any incentive to lie about that would be scum anyways.
/b/ mafia.
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I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason. Nice to see new guy Drab is an active contributor.
I... don't know that it's so obvious that scum/PR would pick the powers you think they'll pick. I think it does make sense that the Fools should have picked Vig, but I think you have contemplate it pretty hard to arrive at that conclusion. I'll guess the scum split between Bp and Investigative Immune, at least.
You can read into how long I thought about PRs as much or as little as you want :D
I read nothing into it it's quite a simple theory to work out
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I agree with axle we should probably shut up about power roles
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Vote Count 1-1
Galzria (1) - Axxle
Robz888 (1) - mcmcsalot
Not Voting (7) - Robz, Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria, TheMunch
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
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I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason. Nice to see new guy Drab is an active contributor.
I... don't know that it's so obvious that scum/PR would pick the powers you think they'll pick. I think it does make sense that the Fools should have picked Vig, but I think you have contemplate it pretty hard to arrive at that conclusion. I'll guess the scum split between Bp and Investigative Immune, at least.
You can read into how long I thought about PRs as much or as little as you want :D
I wasn't talking about "you" specifically. I wasn't saying that you thought about it hard because you are a PR. It's natural to think about what we would have picked (or did in fact pick). I was just saying that the people who did pick may or may not have reached that conclusion.
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/b/ mafia.
You know, I just went back to find the very first game I ran, and it's been pruned. :(
It was amazing. 26 players, and there was exactly one Vanilla Townie. I had Mason Unrequited Lovers of which one was scum, a roleblocker, a postblocker, a voteblocker, I think two serial killers...
It was before I knew how to balance things, obviously. And it wasn't a mafia-related forum, super-obviously.
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Can I be a nagger and ask that the deadline goes in with the vote counts?
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I'm just going to throw this out here... because things like this have served us okay in the past... The other way to play this is to have the Fools claim right now, maybe? They won't get counterclaimed (I don't think...), so then we have are ICs. Whichever one is still alive tomorrow can take his shot or do his investigation or whatever tomorrow (hell, if one of them is a neighborizer, thy can actually get their qt chat going!). And we just play this like any of ash's games.
Anybody see a point in doing that?
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You made me think for a second, but I don't think it's a great idea.
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Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until day 2, and then they claim? That way, they'll (probably) be able to both use their powers? We lose their insight on day 1, but it's not like anyone really has a ton to go on day 1.
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I'm just going to throw this out here... because things like this have served us okay in the past... The other way to play this is to have the Fools claim right now, maybe? They won't get counterclaimed (I don't think...), so then we have are ICs. Whichever one is still alive tomorrow can take his shot or do his investigation or whatever tomorrow (hell, if one of them is a neighborizer, thy can actually get their qt chat going!). And we just play this like any of ash's games.
Anybody see a point in doing that?
I don't think it's necessary.
Let's look at a (generally) worst case here:
We lynch town D1 (I assume not a fool lynch, since any fool or scum claiming fool will not get lynched).
Scum NK a fool N1 (through luck, or because they target a claimed fool due to D1).
Left:
2 scum
1 fool
4 VT
D2, the 2nd fool claims.
If a scum counterclaims, then it's likely that they're BP (since they wouldn't risk counter-claiming unless they knew they could survive a Vig-Fool). Assume at this point we lynch wrong. N2, scum kill a VT.
Left:
2 scum (1 known)
3 VT
We lynch the known scum, and they NK a VT...
Left:
1 scum
2 VT
On D2, if the Fool doesn't get counter-claimed, then he's an IC for the day. Worst case is he leads the town to a VT lynch, and gets NK'd, and then it's 3 VT vs 2 Scum - classic lylo.
My point is, I think that choosing to not claim now doesn't present a situation where scum can counter-claim their way to a win D2 (which is different from most blitz games).
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Long answer short:
I do not think that our Fool's should claim.
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Checking back ONE LAST TIME.
I'm conflicted about Axxle. On the other hand, he feels different. On the other hand, balls to the wall boldness has just always been town, except maybe for me in RMIII and I wasn't really that aggressive. I guess the scum and the town reads cancel eachother out at this point.
Galzria's analysis about fool's claiming looks sound, I agree with him.
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Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
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I do not think that our Fool's should claim.
Man, that apostrophe almost got my vote right there.
Is there ever a reason for a townie to lie to the town?
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Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
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I do not think that our Fool's should claim.
Man, that apostrophe almost got my vote right there.
Is there ever a reason for a townie to lie to the town?
Oh, do not vote for spelling and grammar mistakes! Our brains run faster than our fingers here, trust me.
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Oh, do not vote for spelling and grammar mistakes! Our brains run faster than our fingers here, trust me.
It was a joke. If it was worth voting for, I'd've voted. :P
Archetype/Jimmm have not posted yet.
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Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
Sounds like a double standard.
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Is there ever a reason for a townie to lie to the town?
Some would say no.
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Is there ever a reason for a townie to lie to the town?
Some would say no.
Some would say yes.
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(depending on the lie, in this game... I don't think there's a reason)
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Is there ever a reason for a townie to lie to the town?
Some would say no.
Indeed. Almost every time a townie has lied to the town, it's blown up in their face.
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Lying about having a scum read on someone and backing it up with a vote to catch scum trying to quickhammer is definitely a useful tool for an IC in most blitz setups.
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Lying about having a scum read on someone and backing it up with a vote to catch scum trying to quickhammer is definitely a useful tool for an IC in most blitz setups.
I think the question was more a reference to "Would a VT in this setup ever have anything at all to gain by fake-claiming (lying) about being a Fool?"
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I think the question was more a reference to "Would a VT in this setup ever have anything at all to gain by fake-claiming (lying) about being a Fool?"
You shouldn't say things like that out loud. :-\
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Lying about having a scum read on someone and backing it up with a vote to catch scum trying to quickhammer is definitely a useful tool for an IC in most blitz setups.
I think the question was more a reference to "Would a VT in this setup ever have anything at all to gain by fake-claiming (lying) about being a Fool?"
Well, I'll still mention pulling an Insomniac whenever I get the chance!
To answer the question, at least I can't think of a reason, no.
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Lying about having a scum read on someone and backing it up with a vote to catch scum trying to quickhammer is definitely a useful tool for an IC in most blitz setups.
I think the question was more a reference to "Would a VT in this setup ever have anything at all to gain by fake-claiming (lying) about being a Fool?"
he would have quite a bit to gain but now that i've thought of why scum could have as well, so vt should not fake claim.
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there is a benefit to fake claiming but essentially scum can benefit the same way and so we need a policy that noone should claim today.
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Please, I lie all the time as town. And I always get mislynched for it. So don't do it!
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I suspect Jimmmmmmmmmm. For excessive Ms.
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Vote Count 1-2
Galzria (1) - Axxle
Robz888 (1) - mcmcsalot
Not Voting (7) - Robz, Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria, TheMunch
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
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unvote I think were one with rvs
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I was done a while ago :P
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I killed it pretty hard.
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But since we're out of RVS can we get to VS?
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Well, we have exactly two players who haven't said anything yet this game.
Vote: Jimmmmm
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Jimm lives in Australia, he's never around at this time.
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I looked down from my hut to the town concerned for my brothers' safety. I see the entire town down there except where are my brothers, ahh yes their they are. Why is the town just standing around though no talking no hunting is happening at all. They're just standing there looking at each other scratching their heads. This doesn't seem like a good plan...
Vote Count 1-3
Galzria (1) - Axxle
Jimmmmm (1) - Drab Emordnilap
Not Voting (7) - Robz, Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Galzria, TheMunch, mcmcsalot
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
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Implementing a soft deadline for 10 minutes from now...
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That worked well, Axxle...
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Yep, now vote for Galz as per the soft deadline.
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This game is weirdly silent for a Blitz game.
Why doesn't someone vote for Galzria for a bad reason, watch his reaction, and create an Innocent Child?
I can start. Galzria, you have not been very active this game. I know you're scum. Vote: Galzria
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Fine lets make it active, vote: axxle Constant pressure of a player screams scum to me. It is obvious play so noone expects scum to just come out and push, it also makes you seem active and overall townie regardless of the actual validity of the case
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Vote Count 1-4
Galzria (2) - Axxle, Robz888
Jimmmmm (1) - Drab Emordnilap
Axxle (1) - mcmcsalot
Not Voting (5) - Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Galzria, TheMunch
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
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Fine lets make it active, vote: axxle Constant pressure of a player screams scum to me. It is obvious play so noone expects scum to just come out and push, it also makes you seem active and overall townie regardless of the actual validity of the case
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
Now, Drab is just excited to be playing his first game--and who could blame him! So him driving the convo isn't much of a tell.
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Fine lets make it active, vote: axxle Constant pressure of a player screams scum to me. It is obvious play so noone expects scum to just come out and push, it also makes you seem active and overall townie regardless of the actual validity of the case
"No one expects scum to do it, therefore you're obviously scum" ... ok.
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posting =/= driving conversation. Its not that scum wouldn't do it. I feel that in the current state, scum can hide best by posting as much as possible. Especially when these posts do nothing but push a lynch on someone for no reason.
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Now, Drab is just excited to be playing his first game--and who could blame him! So him driving the convo isn't much of a tell.
Please -- I'm not five. This isn't my first game. I understand you're trying to be encouraging, but you're coming off as condescending here.
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I feel that in the current state, scum can hide best by posting as much as possible.
I don't know about that. No one's talking about Archetype at all.
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Robz, last time you called someone out for "not participating" was when you yourself were under participating in Pokemon.
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
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I understand, lurking is a scum trait. I think the issue is that there are just too many lurkers on this forum, arch has lurked insanely every time I have seen him does that make him scum not necessarily. Last blitz game robz and joth were very high in the post counts, in fact we lynched jimm in his sleep for lurking...he was town.
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I understand, lurking is a scum trait. I think the issue is that there are just too many lurkers on this forum, arch has lurked insanely every time I have seen him does that make him scum not necessarily. Last blitz game robz and joth were very high in the post counts, in fact we lynched jimm in his sleep for lurking...he was town.
If someone's lurking, then whether they're scum or town, they're not contributing to the town winning.
Now, I'm not saying "hey let's lynch Archetype for not posting in the first 5 hours", but if I have to pick between a maybe who posts and a maybe who lurks, I have to look at which one will be worth more if they are town.
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yes drab im not arguing the lurking is a good thing, moreover I'm just pointing out I think people on this forum lurk a whole lot kinda makes for shitty town players :(
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Now, Drab is just excited to be playing his first game--and who could blame him! So him driving the convo isn't much of a tell.
Please -- I'm not five. This isn't my first game. I understand you're trying to be encouraging, but you're coming off as condescending here.
Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I very, very much appreciate your level of activity. And certainly a lot of people new to Forum Games do lurk through their first game, so thanks for not doing that!
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Hey, I'm here. Was going to be gone for the first part of today. Talked to Insomniacc about it and even told him I could switch out if it's too long. He said it's fine, so here I am.
Rereading now.
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Well enough lynchings will get it through their heads eventually.
Or at least their necks. ::)
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Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I very, very much appreciate your level of activity. And certainly a lot of people new to Forum Games do lurk through their first game, so thanks for not doing that!
Well, that's a good way to get lynched! I would like to survive to Day 2 someday. That would be my dream.
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Robz, last time you called someone out for "not participating" was when you yourself were under participating in Pokemon.
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
I don't know if that's the last time I did it. Really, I try to mix up my participating levels, independent of whether I am scum, so that participation level never gives me away.
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You'd have to agree, Galz, that scum!Robz is not consistently an under-poster, over-poster, or average-poster.
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Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I very, very much appreciate your level of activity. And certainly a lot of people new to Forum Games do lurk through their first game, so thanks for not doing that!
Well, that's a good way to get lynched! I would like to survive to Day 2 someday. That would be my dream.
You dont understand. Here we call out lurkers with a vote. They respond "oh hey sorry guys." Then everyone unvotes. No one actually follows through with lynching lurkers, rather unfortunately.
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Really, I try to mix up my participating levels, independent of whether I am scum, so that participation level never gives me away.
You could just, you know, always participate. If you're not participating, you're not worth keeping around. :D
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That last post is half in jest.
What I really want to do is Vote: Robz.
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You dont understand. Here we call out lurkers with a vote. They respond "oh hey sorry guys." Then everyone unvotes. No one actually follows through with lynching lurkers, rather unfortunately.
Hmm, maybe I should look into being a lurker then! Apparently the obligations are minimal and the benefits package is notable.
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That last post is half in jest.
What I really want to do is Vote: Robz.
Your two biggest scumreads are the two players voting for your teammate? I'm liking the Galz/Munch team more and more.
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Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Please tell me what you think this is, I'm curious.
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Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Please tell me what you think this is, I'm curious.
You've literally said you've been holding back content this game.
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That last post is half in jest.
What I really want to do is Vote: Robz.
Your two biggest scumreads are the two players voting for your teammate? I'm liking the Galz/Munch team more and more.
I'm voting for Robz for 2 reasons. First I dont like the buddying attempt at Drab that backfired. If it was just that it would make me suspicious, not necessarily vote. But my second reason, which makes me want to vote Robz, is the degree which he is talking about participation level and degree of scumitude when it is exactly the argument that got him a whole heap of town cred in the last mafia. The towny thing to do, knowing full well that you used peoples knowledge of your participation to scum ratio, is to be upfront with town about how dangerous it is to discuss these things. Instead of saying, hey this is a bad idea, he just tries to wiggle himself out of suspicion by making a "my participation level doesn't reflect on my alignment". It seems awfully self serving.
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That last post is half in jest.
What I really want to do is Vote: Robz.
Your two biggest scumreads are the two players voting for your teammate? I'm liking the Galz/Munch team more and more.
I'm voting for Robz for 2 reasons. First I dont like the buddying attempt at Drab that backfired. If it was just that it would make me suspicious, not necessarily vote. But my second reason, which makes me want to vote Robz, is the degree which he is talking about participation level and degree of scumitude when it is exactly the argument that got him a whole heap of town cred in the last mafia. The towny thing to do, knowing full well that you used peoples knowledge of your participation to scum ratio, is to be upfront with town about how dangerous it is to discuss these things. Instead of saying, hey this is a bad idea, he just tries to wiggle himself out of suspicion by making a "my participation level doesn't reflect on my alignment". It seems awfully self serving.
But Galz specifically asked me about participation, and the truthful answer is that at least for me, participation is NOT an indication of alignment. I mean, I really do think this is true, do you dispute it?
And I was not buddying Drab, I merely thanked him for his participation while noting that it doesn't signal his alignment to me the way it MIGHT be signaling Axxle's.
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Ok here now. Done reading.
Scummish read on Axxle
Town on Eevee and Munchy
Neutral on everyone else,but leaning town on mcmc.
When I reread I did notice that no one mentiondd something: Scum have daychat.
In a blitz game a while ago, Robz, CF, and I quickhammered for the win, so I think we should keep this in mind and be extra careful with our votes.
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Ok here now. Done reading.
Scummish read on Axxle
Town on Eevee and Munchy
Neutral on everyone else,but leaning town on mcmc.
When I reread I did notice that no one mentiondd something: Scum have daychat.
In a blitz game a while ago, Robz, CF, and I quickhammered for the win, so I think we should keep this in mind and be extra careful with our votes.
Good catch.
Why town read on Eevee? He hasn't even said anything.
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But Galz specifically asked me about participation, and the truthful answer is that at least for me, participation is NOT an indication of alignment. I mean, I really do think this is true, do you dispute it?
I see what you're doing and you know full well that wasn't what my argument was.
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But Galz specifically asked me about participation, and the truthful answer is that at least for me, participation is NOT an indication of alignment. I mean, I really do think this is true, do you dispute it?
I see what you're doing and you know full well that wasn't what my argument was.
What am I doing? Don't just stare at it, point it out.
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But Galz specifically asked me about participation, and the truthful answer is that at least for me, participation is NOT an indication of alignment. I mean, I really do think this is true, do you dispute it?
I see what you're doing and you know full well that wasn't what my argument was.
What am I doing? Don't just stare at it, point it out.
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman (http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman)
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Ok here now. Done reading.
Scummish read on Axxle
Town on Eevee and Munchy
Neutral on everyone else,but leaning town on mcmc.
When I reread I did notice that no one mentiondd something: Scum have daychat.
In a blitz game a while ago, Robz, CF, and I quickhammered for the win, so I think we should keep this in mind and be extra careful with our votes.
Good catch.
Why town read on Eevee? He hasn't even said anything.
Something he said during my reread made him seem sort of town-ish to me. I'll go back and see what it was.
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I think that if the Fools do claim, it should be D2. I approve of them claiming, because odds are they'll be able to both use their powers. Then 1 will die, and we'll have an IC.
Of course, scum could still counterclaim. I'm wondering if they would, though, given theirs only 2 in the setup. I guess if they'll Bulletproof, they might as welll.
No, if the Fools claim, they should simply say 'I'm a fool' and not what power they chose. Wait for any counterclaims, and then claim which power they chose.
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Ok here now. Done reading.
Scummish read on Axxle
Town on Eevee and Munchy
Neutral on everyone else,but leaning town on mcmc.
When I reread I did notice that no one mentiondd something: Scum have daychat.
In a blitz game a while ago, Robz, CF, and I quickhammered for the win, so I think we should keep this in mind and be extra careful with our votes.
Good catch.
Why town read on Eevee? He hasn't even said anything.
Something he said during my reread made him seem sort of town-ish to me. I'll go back and see what it was.
Found what I was looking for.
Not really a certain post, but he's freely giving reads and buddying a bit. Reminds me of his behavior in Helsinki. It isn't my top townread though, Munch is. Mainly because of his denying of towncred. I guess it could still be a clever scum ploy to gain even more towncred by denying it.
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Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Please tell me what you think this is, I'm curious.
You've literally said you've been holding back content this game.
I've contributed a fair deal more than you have, that's for sure.
Coming out of RVS claiming "he's scum" and then continuing to pressure people to vote ad nauseam is not "active and fruitful" participation. You've done no actual scum hunting - instead you've gone out of your way to artificially inflate your post count by repeating the same drivel over and over again. Furthermore, the actual claims that you have made (and there have been very, very few) are completely baseless and completely unfactual.
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Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
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I'm awake!
Permit me a little theory talk?
I think the point of this game is to create a setup in which it is disadvantageous for our IC variants to claim on day 1. As such I think they shouldn't claim except to save themselves.
From a Witch's point of view, bulletproof seems pointless, since if they are vig-attempted they're caught out anyway (although I like the flavour behind it - if you survive the test you're a Witch, if you die you're innocent). From a Fool's point of view, then, Cop seems utterly pointless, since the chance of getting scum result is really low, and a Town result is virtually meaningless. Which of course makes bulletproof slightly more attractive to a Witch because then they can at least try to argue their way out of it.
I actually think Neighbourizer is better than it's being given credit for. It's a great way for Fools to back up their claim if they are counter-claimed, or to set up a Masonry between the two Fools in the absence of counter-claims.
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Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
Can I vote Robz again?
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Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Please tell me what you think this is, I'm curious.
You've literally said you've been holding back content this game.
I've contributed a fair deal more than you have, that's for sure.
Coming out of RVS claiming "he's scum" and then continuing to pressure people to vote ad nauseam is not "active and fruitful" participation. You've done no actual scum hunting - instead you've gone out of your way to artificially inflate your post count by repeating the same drivel over and over again. Furthermore, the actual claims that you have made (and there have been very, very few) are completely baseless and completely unfactual.
Please point out specific posts, all I've seen is speculation on the setup, and your refusal to say anything on reads until everyone posts.
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I'm awake!
Permit me a little theory talk?
I think the point of this game is to create a setup in which it is disadvantageous for our IC variants to claim on day 1. As such I think they shouldn't claim except to save themselves.
From a Witch's point of view, bulletproof seems pointless, since if they are vig-attempted they're caught out anyway (although I like the flavour behind it - if you survive the test you're a Witch, if you die you're innocent). From a Fool's point of view, then, Cop seems utterly pointless, since the chance of getting scum result is really low, and a Town result is virtually meaningless. Which of course makes bulletproof slightly more attractive to a Witch because then they can at least try to argue their way out of it.
I actually think Neighbourizer is better than it's being given credit for. It's a great way for Fools to back up their claim if they are counter-claimed, or to set up a Masonry between the two Fools in the absence of counter-claims.
This did a surprisingly good job of summing up all our theory talk in one post. Points for Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I thought about what you posting a lot actually meant.
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Galz's posts consist of apathy toward the game, theory, and dismissal of the argument against him as not being a case. Pretty anti town, and likely scum:
Complete apathy to the game for the first few posts:
Look, a new game.
I suppose I should actually take the time to read the setup. But I'm lazy and want coffee.
Haha no eevee that would be quite a long way to send vibes we live quite far away when we aren't at our parents house aka Christmas. But robz has let's say a "history" with witches...
NOW I'm interested.
(incidentally also the reason I voted Galz)
I actually never bothered to read it. I hadn't been planning on playing this game until the last minute, when Insomniac PM'd me asking me to join so he could launch it. /shrug
Preach to the choir more why don't you. I also only replaced in since he asked me to, but still bothered to read the setup.
To each his own. I'll get around to it eventually here.
Then theory:
Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
Well, at least they know the scum can't block it?
Yeah, but they've no idea if they find town or scum with it. So it's really quite pointless as far as I can tell.
Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
But then you can go all wine on it and say that the Witches know that both Fools will choose Vig, and so take bulletproof to be immune to that.
On the other hand, if a Vig shoots someone and they don't die, the vig can roleclaim knowing they shot at a Witch.
That's exactly his point, which I completely agree with. Because if a Vig shoots and BP Witch, it's as good as taking Cop and finding scum. So there would never be any reason for a PR to take Cop.
From the scum perspective, I slightly disagree with Munch. I think they would take BP, since they would know that it makes little sense for the PR's to choose cop. And even if the PR's DO choose Cop, the result is essentially the same. They're caught if shot, and they're caught if investigated. Being BP however, means that they don't die straight out if shot, so they at least get the chance to argue their case or claim the PR is lying scum.
Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
But then you can go all wine on it and say that the Witches know that both Fools will choose Vig, and so take bulletproof to be immune to that.
On the other hand, if a Vig shoots someone and they don't die, the vig can roleclaim knowing they shot at a Witch.
That's exactly his point, which I completely agree with. Because if a Vig shoots and BP Witch, it's as good as taking Cop and finding scum. So there would never be any reason for a PR to take Cop.
From the scum perspective, I slightly disagree with Munch. I think they would take BP, since they would know that it makes little sense for the PR's to choose cop. And even if the PR's DO choose Cop, the result is essentially the same. They're caught if shot, and they're caught if investigated. Being BP however, means that they don't die straight out if shot, so they at least get the chance to argue their case or claim the PR is lying scum.
Addendum:
The only reason a PR would take Cop over Vig, is if they weren't confident in their ability to find scum, and would rather find and confirm a town player then worry about killing a town player. In this case, it's a guess for the scum as to if they want to risk being killed by a Vig, or cleared by a Cop (Cops get a "town" result on an investigative immune scum, right? Not "No Result", which would essentially be "scum"?).
B) Investigate Proof - Any attempt to investigate you will return village aligned.
Yeah, exactly.
Then a complete dismissal of my accusation:
And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
:eyeroll:
More theory:
I'm just going to throw this out here... because things like this have served us okay in the past... The other way to play this is to have the Fools claim right now, maybe? They won't get counterclaimed (I don't think...), so then we have are ICs. Whichever one is still alive tomorrow can take his shot or do his investigation or whatever tomorrow (hell, if one of them is a neighborizer, thy can actually get their qt chat going!). And we just play this like any of ash's games.
Anybody see a point in doing that?
I don't think it's necessary.
Let's look at a (generally) worst case here:
We lynch town D1 (I assume not a fool lynch, since any fool or scum claiming fool will not get lynched).
Scum NK a fool N1 (through luck, or because they target a claimed fool due to D1).
Left:
2 scum
1 fool
4 VT
D2, the 2nd fool claims.
If a scum counterclaims, then it's likely that they're BP (since they wouldn't risk counter-claiming unless they knew they could survive a Vig-Fool). Assume at this point we lynch wrong. N2, scum kill a VT.
Left:
2 scum (1 known)
3 VT
We lynch the known scum, and they NK a VT...
Left:
1 scum
2 VT
On D2, if the Fool doesn't get counter-claimed, then he's an IC for the day. Worst case is he leads the town to a VT lynch, and gets NK'd, and then it's 3 VT vs 2 Scum - classic lylo.
My point is, I think that choosing to not claim now doesn't present a situation where scum can counter-claim their way to a win D2 (which is different from most blitz games).
Long answer short:
I do not think that our Fool's should claim.
Pointing out lurkers and refusal to play:
Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
More theory:
Is there ever a reason for a townie to lie to the town?
Some would say no.
Indeed. Almost every time a townie has lied to the town, it's blown up in their face.
Lying about having a scum read on someone and backing it up with a vote to catch scum trying to quickhammer is definitely a useful tool for an IC in most blitz setups.
I think the question was more a reference to "Would a VT in this setup ever have anything at all to gain by fake-claiming (lying) about being a Fool?"
Finally some semblance of scumhunting:
Robz, last time you called someone out for "not participating" was when you yourself were under participating in Pokemon.
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
And then this:
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Please tell me what you think this is, I'm curious.
You've literally said you've been holding back content this game.
I've contributed a fair deal more than you have, that's for sure.
Coming out of RVS claiming "he's scum" and then continuing to pressure people to vote ad nauseam is not "active and fruitful" participation. You've done no actual scum hunting - instead you've gone out of your way to artificially inflate your post count by repeating the same drivel over and over again. Furthermore, the actual claims that you have made (and there have been very, very few) are completely baseless and completely unfactual.
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Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I thought about what you posting a lot actually meant.
If he were making posts that contained more than the same generic thought over and over and over, there might be some merit to that. Instead he's inflating his post count without saying anything of value.
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Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I thought about what you posting a lot actually meant.
Interesting reaction... but what does it mean?
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Jack Skellington, right?
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Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I thought about what you posting a lot actually meant.
If he were making posts that contained more than the same generic thought over and over and over, there might be some merit to that. Instead he's inflating his post count without saying anything of value.
Well it's a true thought. You say you've been contributing but you can't come up with examples.
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Jack Skellington, right?
Yep, I thought it was appropriate since I wasn't expecting that answer and have no idea if it's a town or scum or null tell.
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I actually think Archetype is scum. Vote: Archetype
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I actually think Archetype is scum. Vote: Archetype
Why? He hasn't said a lot other than give a few reads and some theory.
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Let's count the number of times Axxle has called for my lynch since the day began:
#1 (1st Axxle Post)
Vote: Galzria
Let's do our first RVS lynch! (I assume? Haven't read every game to be sure)
#2 (3rd Axxle Post)
(incidentally also the reason I voted Galz)
#3 (6th Axxle post)
I thought this was Blitz Mafia, where is everyone? Need more votes on this guy!
Vote: Galzria
#4 (8th Axxle post)
Galz is doing nothing to progress the game. Classic actilurking.
Neighborizer is the best way to make the PR an IC.
#5 (9th Axxle post)
Welp, Munch/Galz scumteam. GG everyone, call me when the lynches go through.
#6 (11th Axxle post)
And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
#7 (20th Axxle post)
Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
Sounds like a double standard.
((This one, while not calling for my lynch, is a particular favorite of mine, as it's blatantly false and misleading. Not only is it NOT what I said, it's not even CLOSE - and his attitude taken is that I've said nothing to date which is exactly on par with what the two I mentioned had said - I invite everybody to reread up to that point, and then laugh their ass off at Axxle as I did here.))
#8 (26th Axxle post)
Yep, now vote for Galz as per the soft deadline.
((Another favorite of mine - right after he imposed a "soft-deadline" (first, like he's some sort of IC or can command everybody around) of "10 minutes" he then comes out declaring everybody should vote for me as the clear lynch "per the soft deadline" - which, even if his word was worth anything at all (protip: it's not), the fact is there were TWO people with 1 vote each on them according to the votecount not FIVE posts prior - and yet "Vote for Galz as per the soft deadline" is apparently the obvious thing to do. Bwahaha))
#9 (28th Axxle post)
That last post is half in jest.
What I really want to do is Vote: Robz.
Your two biggest scumreads are the two players voting for your teammate? I'm liking the Galz/Munch team more and more.
#10 (30th Axxle post)
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Please tell me what you think this is, I'm curious.
You've literally said you've been holding back content this game.
((Again, not directly calling for my lynch here, but pulling out completely, 100% false information to further his lack of a case against me that he's been pushing all game long)).
#11 (33rd Axxle post)
His big long case one me, which contains a ton of actual content. Funny how I'm quite literally the -only- person he's called out over theory talk. Nothing on Robz. Nothing on Munch. Nothing on Drab. Nothing on mcmc. No... why not? Because they don't fit what he wants to sell. His "apathetic towards the game" is a line of a complete **** that is simply wrong - I stated I hadn't read the setup, and that I needed to do so. That's not apathy, that's "not reading the setup, and needing to do so". His "He's posted no content" is completely false as well, as he so handsomely demonstrates (thank you Axxle). His "witholding information and double-standard" case is a nothing case as well, given that I never actually said that.
He's right on one point. I completely dismissed his "case". Well, what can I say? When he actual bothers to participate in this game instead of spending 1/3 of his posts calling me out over quite literally nothing at all, I might be more inclined to give him the time of day. Until then, he's just another player trying to artificially inflate his post count without saying anything whatsoever of value.
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Robz, I really don't care if you vote for me, but I hope it's not because I wasn't here at the beginning.
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Axxle has been pushing very hard very early, but I don't necessarily attribute that as scummyness.
PPE: Will have to read Galz' megapost.
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Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
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Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
You *have* refused to give content right there in bold.
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Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
You *have* refused to give content right there in bold.
Fixed the bolded part for you, since obviously you're having a problem with sentence comprehension.
Further, that was ONLY regarding a one very specific point - and it has not at all hindered me from posting thoughts on a multitude of other things - which is exactly what you're response tried to sow with "Bit of a Double-Standard?" - because no, in fact, it wasn't. I was, have been, and remain as active as almost any player here - and far, far more than some - and CERTAINLY far more than you when it comes to actual useful content.
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Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
You *have* refused to give content right there in bold.
Fixed the bolded part for you, since obviously you're having a problem with sentence comprehension.
Further, that was ONLY regarding a one very specific point - and it has not at all hindered me from posting thoughts on a multitude of other things - which is exactly what you're response tried to sow with "Bit of a Double-Standard?" - because no, in fact, it wasn't. I was, have been, and remain as active as almost any player here - and far, far more than some - and CERTAINLY far more than you when it comes to actual useful content.
"I won't post content until other people post content" That double standard.
Again, please point me to the posts where you have useful content.
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Here ya go, here's a whole plethora of them:
Galz's posts consist of apathy toward the game, theory, and dismissal of the argument against him as not being a case. Pretty anti town, and likely scum:
Complete apathy to the game for the first few posts:
Look, a new game.
I suppose I should actually take the time to read the setup. But I'm lazy and want coffee.
Haha no eevee that would be quite a long way to send vibes we live quite far away when we aren't at our parents house aka Christmas. But robz has let's say a "history" with witches...
NOW I'm interested.
(incidentally also the reason I voted Galz)
I actually never bothered to read it. I hadn't been planning on playing this game until the last minute, when Insomniac PM'd me asking me to join so he could launch it. /shrug
Preach to the choir more why don't you. I also only replaced in since he asked me to, but still bothered to read the setup.
To each his own. I'll get around to it eventually here.
Then theory:
Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
Why would the town PR's choose Neighborizer? Like... what does it really gain them?
Well, at least they know the scum can't block it?
Yeah, but they've no idea if they find town or scum with it. So it's really quite pointless as far as I can tell.
Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
But then you can go all wine on it and say that the Witches know that both Fools will choose Vig, and so take bulletproof to be immune to that.
On the other hand, if a Vig shoots someone and they don't die, the vig can roleclaim knowing they shot at a Witch.
That's exactly his point, which I completely agree with. Because if a Vig shoots and BP Witch, it's as good as taking Cop and finding scum. So there would never be any reason for a PR to take Cop.
From the scum perspective, I slightly disagree with Munch. I think they would take BP, since they would know that it makes little sense for the PR's to choose cop. And even if the PR's DO choose Cop, the result is essentially the same. They're caught if shot, and they're caught if investigated. Being BP however, means that they don't die straight out if shot, so they at least get the chance to argue their case or claim the PR is lying scum.
Calling it right now: Both Witches are investigative proof, Both fools are Vigs.
What are the odds of that happening?
My logic is this: Witches got to discuss their roles and they could both pick the same role. They are choosing between bulletproof and investigative proof. The only thing that bulletproof saves witches from is getting shot by a Vig, and this is the only thing that could stop a vig shot by going through. Thus, for bulletproof witches, Vig is just as good as a cop at catching scum. So Investigative proof is better than bulletproof.
Given the assumption that Investigative proof is better than bulletproof, there is no reason for the fools to choose cop, so they choose vig (unless they know better than me how to use neighborizer as an investigative role, which is very possible. I just dont konw how to use neighborizer I guess?).
I mean I dont KNOW thats whats actually going on wrt roles, but it makes sense to me that it could work out this way rather easily.
But then you can go all wine on it and say that the Witches know that both Fools will choose Vig, and so take bulletproof to be immune to that.
On the other hand, if a Vig shoots someone and they don't die, the vig can roleclaim knowing they shot at a Witch.
That's exactly his point, which I completely agree with. Because if a Vig shoots and BP Witch, it's as good as taking Cop and finding scum. So there would never be any reason for a PR to take Cop.
From the scum perspective, I slightly disagree with Munch. I think they would take BP, since they would know that it makes little sense for the PR's to choose cop. And even if the PR's DO choose Cop, the result is essentially the same. They're caught if shot, and they're caught if investigated. Being BP however, means that they don't die straight out if shot, so they at least get the chance to argue their case or claim the PR is lying scum.
Addendum:
The only reason a PR would take Cop over Vig, is if they weren't confident in their ability to find scum, and would rather find and confirm a town player then worry about killing a town player. In this case, it's a guess for the scum as to if they want to risk being killed by a Vig, or cleared by a Cop (Cops get a "town" result on an investigative immune scum, right? Not "No Result", which would essentially be "scum"?).
B) Investigate Proof - Any attempt to investigate you will return village aligned.
Yeah, exactly.
Then a complete dismissal of my accusation:
And I really am not really joking right now, I think it's the most likely thing at the moment, although later that probably will change.
What on earth are you basing this on? Munch seems like himself, Galzria hasn't done anything (or is that the case, posting without contributing.. one hour after the game started?), I don't know. Not trying to call the dogs on you though, bold play like this is usually town I think. I've never been good at reading Axxle though.
Galz not doing anything except setup speculation still really sets off alarm bells. Munch overreacting to one other vote on Galz seems scumbuddyish.
:eyeroll:
More theory:
I'm just going to throw this out here... because things like this have served us okay in the past... The other way to play this is to have the Fools claim right now, maybe? They won't get counterclaimed (I don't think...), so then we have are ICs. Whichever one is still alive tomorrow can take his shot or do his investigation or whatever tomorrow (hell, if one of them is a neighborizer, thy can actually get their qt chat going!). And we just play this like any of ash's games.
Anybody see a point in doing that?
I don't think it's necessary.
Let's look at a (generally) worst case here:
We lynch town D1 (I assume not a fool lynch, since any fool or scum claiming fool will not get lynched).
Scum NK a fool N1 (through luck, or because they target a claimed fool due to D1).
Left:
2 scum
1 fool
4 VT
D2, the 2nd fool claims.
If a scum counterclaims, then it's likely that they're BP (since they wouldn't risk counter-claiming unless they knew they could survive a Vig-Fool). Assume at this point we lynch wrong. N2, scum kill a VT.
Left:
2 scum (1 known)
3 VT
We lynch the known scum, and they NK a VT...
Left:
1 scum
2 VT
On D2, if the Fool doesn't get counter-claimed, then he's an IC for the day. Worst case is he leads the town to a VT lynch, and gets NK'd, and then it's 3 VT vs 2 Scum - classic lylo.
My point is, I think that choosing to not claim now doesn't present a situation where scum can counter-claim their way to a win D2 (which is different from most blitz games).
Long answer short:
I do not think that our Fool's should claim.
Pointing out lurkers and refusal to play:
Galz, what are your reads? You post a lot of theory, but nothing about the players in this game specifically.
When people post more, I'll tell you. So far Robz has posted 3 times. mcmc has posted 3 times. Others have posted less (Archetype/Jimmm - although maybe I just missed them). When people start talking more, I'll form more solid opinions. I'm not going to state my thoughts on anybody until that time, as I really don't want to give scum the opportunity to come in and play towards my reads.
More theory:
Is there ever a reason for a townie to lie to the town?
Some would say no.
Indeed. Almost every time a townie has lied to the town, it's blown up in their face.
Lying about having a scum read on someone and backing it up with a vote to catch scum trying to quickhammer is definitely a useful tool for an IC in most blitz setups.
I think the question was more a reference to "Would a VT in this setup ever have anything at all to gain by fake-claiming (lying) about being a Fool?"
Finally some semblance of scumhunting:
Robz, last time you called someone out for "not participating" was when you yourself were under participating in Pokemon.
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
And then this:
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Please tell me what you think this is, I'm curious.
You've literally said you've been holding back content this game.
I've contributed a fair deal more than you have, that's for sure.
Coming out of RVS claiming "he's scum" and then continuing to pressure people to vote ad nauseam is not "active and fruitful" participation. You've done no actual scum hunting - instead you've gone out of your way to artificially inflate your post count by repeating the same drivel over and over again. Furthermore, the actual claims that you have made (and there have been very, very few) are completely baseless and completely unfactual.
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Although you pretty much have to ignore all the ridiculous, false, and misleading spin that Axxle has put in there.
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Eh, what can I say? I think this is scum!Axxle. He's put absolutely nothing of value together this game, and has literally spent more than 1/3 of his game thusfar pushing completely false and non-existent cases. Further, any time anybody has tried to say anything useful, he's gone out of his way to suppress those statements. I don't think town!Axxle would go out of his way to play a really bad game, but I could see Scum!Axxle, who's known for lurking, going as far out of his way to blow up his post count with something so beyond aggressive most people will look and go "Nope, that's not scum!Axxle".
So I'm comfortable putting my Vote: Axxle down until he actually starts contributing in a meaningful way.
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How would you say those posts are useful?
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Now this is a game!
Unvote
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UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
Vote Count 1-4
Galzria (2) - Axxle, Robz888
Axxle (2) - mcmcsalot, Galzria
Robz (1) -Munch
Not Voting (3) - Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Drab
5 to lynch
No one can have 3 votes until we've decided all together to lynch them, ok? Just in case of quickhammering. Instead, let's italicize our votes until we know for sure who we want to lynch and all conversation is done.
Vote: Axxle
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I very much doubt that scum would quickhammer 1-2 like you're suggesting Archetype - at least D1 on what they would know to be a townie lynch. So it's not quite as big an issue. Any L-1 + Lynch votes that came back-to-back would be instant reason to lynch said players the following day(s)
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UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
Vote Count 1-4
Galzria (2) - Axxle, Robz888
Axxle (2) - mcmcsalot, Galzria
Robz (1) -Munch
Not Voting (3) - Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Drab
5 to lynch
No one can have 3 votes until we've decided all together to lynch them, ok? Just in case of quickhammering. Instead, let's italicize our votes until we know for sure who we want to lynch and all conversation is done.
Vote: Axxle
quick hammering on D1 ould be super obvious that they are scum, I don't think we need to worry at this point but I guess I don't see the harm in italicising.
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I'm actually against italicising as it adds to the confusion. Sure, be a little wary of putting someone on L - 1, but even then anyone who's going to hammer will announce intent to do so first or look rather scummy.
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I agree that italicising makes it confusing. It also makes those who use italic votes very noncommittal.
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UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
Vote Count 1-4
Galzria (2) - Axxle, Robz888
Axxle (2) - mcmcsalot, Galzria
Robz (1) -Munch
Not Voting (3) - Eevee, Archetype, Jimmmmm, Drab
5 to lynch
No one can have 3 votes until we've decided all together to lynch them, ok? Just in case of quickhammering. Instead, let's italicize our votes until we know for sure who we want to lynch and all conversation is done.
Vote: Axxle
quick hammering on D1 ould be super obvious that they are scum, I don't think we need to worry at this point but I guess I don't see the harm in italicising.
Probably just being a little too paranoid, but it just happened so quickly that one game that it scares me having it happen again. Probably not something to have to worry about now, but definitally something we should focus on if there is still 2 scum left later on in the game.
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I agree that italicising makes it confusing. It also makes those who use italic votes very noncommittal.
*look very noncommittal
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I'm actually against italicising as it adds to the confusion. Sure, be a little wary of putting someone on L - 1, but even then anyone who's going to hammer will announce intent to do so first or look rather scummy.
Ok, fine. Just trying to be innovative. :P
Vote: Axxle
I think players should let people know if it ever gets to at least L-2. You can never be too careful.
So, It's L-2 now.
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This game is weirdly silent for a Blitz game.
Why doesn't someone vote for Galzria for a bad reason, watch his reaction, and create an Innocent Child?
I can start. Galzria, you have not been very active this game. I know you're scum. Vote: Galzria
He doesn't seem to have reacted. How does that make you feel about Galzria, Robz?
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Personally I read back through the thread and I'm not sure what to think of Axxle or Galzria.
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This game is weirdly silent for a Blitz game.
Why doesn't someone vote for Galzria for a bad reason, watch his reaction, and create an Innocent Child?
I can start. Galzria, you have not been very active this game. I know you're scum. Vote: Galzria
He doesn't seem to have reacted. How does that make you feel about Galzria, Robz?
That's not actually true. Although your question of Robz is still completely valid.
For the record, I pointed out that his statement and reason for voting for me was completely pot trying to call the kettle black:
Robz, last time you called someone out for "not participating" was when you yourself were under participating in Pokemon.
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
Except that it really wasn't, since Robz has (admittedly) been lurking this game, whereas I have not. But his claim that "you have not been very active this game" is simply false. If the statement and reason for a vote has no merit, I'll generally not bother to extraordinary levels to defend myself. If he had made a real case, or said something accurate, I would've responded more fully. As is, I think my response was completely appropriate given his "reason" to vote.
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Vote Count 1-5
Galzria (1) - Axxle
Axxle (2) - mcmcsalot, Galzria, Archetype {L-2}
Robz888 (1) - TheMunch
Archetype (1) - Robz888
Not Voting (4) - Eevee, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
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Vote Count 1-5
Galzria (1) - Axxle
Axxle (3) - mcmcsalot, Galzria, Archetype {L-2}
Robz888 (1) - TheMunch
Archetype (1) - Robz888
Not Voting (4) - Eevee, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
Fixed.
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Vote Count 1-6
Galzria (1) - Axxle
Axxle (3) - mcmcsalot, Galzria, Archetype {L-2}
Robz888 (1) - TheMunch
Archetype (1) - Robz888
Not Voting (3) - Eevee, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
Really fixed. Not being a thread mod makes fixing errors annoying.
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I think players should let people know if it ever gets to at least L-2. You can never be too careful.
Axxle (3) - mcmcsalot, Galzria, Archetype {L-2}
That works too.
Nevermind! Thanks ash.
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Okay, going to try to get into this game by re-reading and coming to a conclusion on everyone.
First up, Eevee.
Seems friendly enough. Bit of buddying to the newbie. Conflicted about Axxle: doesn't like his play but says that sort of play usually comes from Townies.
Not terribly much to go off, but I'd say a slight Town read.
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Next Drab.
Firstly FoS for getting on my case for being asleep. It's hardly my fault that the game started at 3 in the morning!
Nah it's all good.
Uncomfortable with random voting. Bit of theory talk. Bit about LaLL. Seems a bit suspicious of Axxle. I'd suggest that if he's scum then his partner is Axxle or Galz or, you know, someone else who's been active, which makes calling out lurkers an easy play. Still, I'd have to say a nullread.
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Next Munch.
Big overreaction to the suggestion of random lynching Galz, which I don't think was meant to be taken at all seriously. Theory talk.
This was interesting:
But then you get people like you who just gave him town cred...
Well, if he is scum, he's a much stronger player than I am.
Awwww. Gee thanks.
Scumslip? Logically it is: Munch only has reason to thank Drab if he's scum. Still, unconvincing as I can see Munch either joking around or misunderstanding.
Scum read on Axxle, but won't say why. Implies we should "follow through" with lynching lurkers. Votes Robz for buddying Drab and for talking about scumminess/participation level in a "self-serving" way. Asks if he can vote Robz again for his unexplained 180 on Axxle, then does some buddying to me.
Maybe this is just a gut feeling, but I have a bit of a scum read here. I didn't like the overreaction to the random lynch thing. Seems like Robz could be an easy target, although I won't be sure until I've re-read Robz.
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@TheMunch: What do you think about Robz's response to my question?
Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I thought about what you posting a lot actually meant.
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Robz.
Overall a nullread I think. I don't like his claim suggestion, but then he always suggests claiming. I'm not a fan of the way that he tries to game his meta either, I think it's very anti-Town in general. But that's just Robz. I didn't think there was a lot to his participation/scumminess comments, which kind of confirms my slight scumread on Munch.
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@TheMunch: What do you think about Robz's response to my question?
Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I thought about what you posting a lot actually meant.
I dont like it. Especially given the fact that Robz should know that any argument involving the quantity in which someone posts can be manipulated. Hes done it before (manipulated town to give him town cred for how active hes being). Manipulative if he is scum. Illogical if he is town.
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Well, if he is scum, he's a much stronger player than I am.
Awwww. Gee thanks.
Scumslip? Logically it is: Munch only has reason to thank Drab if he's scum. Still, unconvincing as I can see Munch either joking around or misunderstanding.
If someone complements me, I will say thank you. Drab is acknowledging a scenario where he thinks I could be a better player than him, so I respond with gratitude. I can be thankful that he is willing to think I am good without giving credit to the basis of "if he is scum".
At all times I am actively trying to never say "I am town". If I want you to think I am town, I will show it to you. I wont say it. Saying it is hollow. Its like Shawshank; "everyone is innocent here".
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This is a really weird (read: not the norm) feeling for me, but I find myself agreeing with nearly everything Munch says. Maybe I've just become sensitized to him since last blitz game, but I've found him to be the Towniest person here. His thoughts have consistently mirrored mine.
Not sure what to make of that actually. If he's scum I'll be really really sad. I like to believe that I get better at reading people over time...
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This is a really weird (read: not the norm) feeling for me, but I find myself agreeing with nearly everything Munch says. Maybe I've just become sensitized to him since last blitz game, but I've found him to be the Towniest person here. His thoughts have consistently mirrored mine.
Not sure what to make of that actually. If he's scum I'll be really really sad. I like to believe that I get better at reading people over time...
Blitz Mafia X. Never Forget.
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Alright, I'll be doing a full post before I go to bed tonight with my thoughts on everybody. As for now they range somewhere from:
Town ----- Scum
Munch, Drab .... Eevee, Robz, Axxle
I'm not sure where Jimmm/Arche/mcmc fall. I'll need to look closer at interactions.
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Arch.
Probably a nullread as well, though I'm a little wary that his whole "let's italicise" thing could be a ploy to make him seem like a scared Townie. It just seems a little over the top. Still, could be genuine.
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mcmc.
Nullread as well. He's posted a reasonable amount without saying terribly much useful, so I'm a little wary of that, but not enough to give me a scumread.
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Galz.
I must say he reads pretty Towny to me, but I am of the opinion that he is much better at coming across as Towny when he's scum than he says he is. Still, slight Town read, in which case I'd better take his opinions on Munch and Axxle pretty seriously.
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Catching up from 5 pages back:
Fine lets make it active, vote: axxle Constant pressure of a player screams scum to me. It is obvious play so noone expects scum to just come out and push, it also makes you seem active and overall townie regardless of the actual validity of the case
I don't agree with mcmc here. He is someone I tend to have a town bias on, but this just seems like mafia seeing someone who is a little too bold and trying to drive a mislynch. I lean towards town on Axxle, as per my theory of people who draw a lot of attention to themselves always flipping town.
...so I basically agree with this:
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
Now, Drab is just excited to be playing his first game--and who could blame him! So him driving the convo isn't much of a tell.
Well, I wouldn't say almost certainly, but as certainly as one can be with this little to go on. I also agree with the town read on Drab, those would be my two biggest at this point.
You dont understand. Here we call out lurkers with a vote. They respond "oh hey sorry guys." Then everyone unvotes. No one actually follows through with lynching lurkers, rather unfortunately.
Hmm, maybe I should look into being a lurker then! Apparently the obligations are minimal and the benefits package is notable.
Haha, welldone.
Ok here now. Done reading.
Scummish read on Axxle
Town on Eevee and Munchy
Any explanations for these? What I recall of my play last night (before I went to sleeps) is that I had been awake for 26 hours and didn't post a whole lot. Seems sort of weird to have town read on me, but on the other hand it's not like you were under pressure and would have had to lie if you were scum, so uh. I think it's a null tell, maybe I'm just asking this so I'll know how to act in the future go get town cred. :P Also don't understand the town read on Munch (what has he done to deserve it: post good strategy?) or the scum read on Axxle (well, I do, I just disagree in what his behavior is an indicator of).
.. I see Robz again posted what I would have posted. I don't remember if the Robz that thinks awfully similar to me is scum or town (both probably), but worth noting because I found it amusing. Pre-buddying up to me!
.. I see archetype did explain his town read on me. Makes sense.
I'm awake!
Permit me a little theory talk?
I think the point of this game is to create a setup in which it is disadvantageous for our IC variants to claim on day 1. As such I think they shouldn't claim except to save themselves.
From a Witch's point of view, bulletproof seems pointless, since if they are vig-attempted they're caught out anyway (although I like the flavour behind it - if you survive the test you're a Witch, if you die you're innocent). From a Fool's point of view, then, Cop seems utterly pointless, since the chance of getting scum result is really low, and a Town result is virtually meaningless. Which of course makes bulletproof slightly more attractive to a Witch because then they can at least try to argue their way out of it.
I actually think Neighbourizer is better than it's being given credit for. It's a great way for Fools to back up their claim if they are counter-claimed, or to set up a Masonry between the two Fools in the absence of counter-claims.
This did a surprisingly good job of summing up all our theory talk in one post. Points for Jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I agree, points for being good in theory, very good post! I don't think being good in theory is an indication of alignment though. I appreciate the post and I'm not saying he is using that as scum to get town cred.. but why couldn't he. I think that post is evidence of Jimmm being good at articulating theory, and has very little or nothing to do with his alignment.
Ooh, first really interesting post of the game. Galzria, what do you think this tells of Axxles alignment? Axxle, what do you think this tells of Galzria? (I don't know if you have answered yet.)
Basically, Galzria got pissed. That's usually town Galzria (although this obviously wasn't over the line or anything, I don't mean to imply that). On the other hand, it could be read as being too defensive and over-reacting to Axxle's "case" which was largely jokes. But nah, I don't think so, it seemed Galzria was just frustrated of Axxle mischaracterizing his play. I don't know, I lean slight town towards Galzria, although I don't like this trend of always thinking he is town when he gets frustrated.
Robz, I really don't care if you vote for me, but I hope it's not because I wasn't here at the beginning.
This is fair I think. Nothing Arch has done or hasn't done has made him change his scumscore in my mind yet.
Okay, I see Galz answered my question above here:
Eh, what can I say? I think this is scum!Axxle. He's put absolutely nothing of value together this game, and has literally spent more than 1/3 of his game thusfar pushing completely false and non-existent cases. Further, any time anybody has tried to say anything useful, he's gone out of his way to suppress those statements. I don't think town!Axxle would go out of his way to play a really bad game, but I could see Scum!Axxle, who's known for lurking, going as far out of his way to blow up his post count with something so beyond aggressive most people will look and go "Nope, that's not scum!Axxle".
So I'm comfortable putting my Vote: Axxle down until he actually starts contributing in a meaningful way.
Well, to me this cements Axxle and Galzria pretty much can't be a scumpair. Either could be town while other is scum or both could be town still, but do we agree on them being the witches being very unlike?
I agree that italicising makes it confusing. It also makes those who use italic votes very noncommittal.
Agreed, didn't even realized Arche had "voted" before I went back.
Jimm's way of catching up due to missing action because of the timezones feels very similar. Also really good catch up posts I very much agreed with, town read on him.
I agree with Jimmm in finding Robz's attempts to game his meta annoying.
Galz, why the scum-ish read on me? Is it just a PoE for being asleep and not being here to contribute, or something I actually have done?
So, tldr, conclusion:
Town reads on Axxle and Jimm. Galzria and Axxle can't both be scum. I actually agree with Galzria's sentiment about Munch in that I agree with him a lot more than usual, but I don't know what to make of that. Hesitant light town read? Top scum read probably mcmc, he has given me emotion-based town reads earlier that have turned out to be correct, so I feel comfortable reading him. He doesn't feel towny here to me, maybe he just hasn't gotten online time to prove his towniness, but the posting he has done hasn't felt like the town mcmc I've identified in the past. Also slightly worried of Robz because he feels to be surprisingly nicely in the background (not blaming you for this Robz, it's just that usually people line up to mislynch you for terrible reasons and I get to defend you because your reaction just screams town to me, hasnt happened here). Null on Arch, although he usually reads scummy to me so I don't know what that means.
I'll be online for the following 8 hours, which is great because playing catch up in blitz is pretty hard.
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Galzria and Axxle can't both be scum.
I think I agree, but every time someone says this because of an argument it sets off scum ploy alarm bells in my head. It's generally true that they're not both scum, but I bet you one day they will be.
Getting to my re-read on Axxle.
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For better or worse here Eevee (in your read towards me at least), I think you misunderstood my tone. I was never frustrated or pissed this game. My aim was quite simply to sum up more than 1/3 of Axxle's posts at that time: Completely false, misleading, and irrelevant noise that was based on nothing that was actually true to what he claimed. He was inflating post count by repeating the same falsities ad nauseam. Most of the time I simply ignored him as there really wasn't anything of value to respond to. When he persisted, I laid it out quite clearly. If he continues on now without actually building real cases - or worse cases built on things that aren't actually said - I'll simply go back to ignoring him. If his claims have any merit, I'll respond.
But I was never pissed or frustrated.
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For better or worse here Eevee (in your read towards me at least), I think you misunderstood my tone. I was never frustrated or pissed this game. My aim was quite simply to sum up more than 1/3 of Axxle's posts at that time: Completely false, misleading, and irrelevant noise that was based on nothing that was actually true to what he claimed. He was inflating post count by repeating the same falsities ad nauseam. Most of the time I simply ignored him as there really wasn't anything of value to respond to. When he persisted, I laid it out quite clearly. If he continues on now without actually building real cases - or worse cases built on things that aren't actually said - I'll simply go back to ignoring him. If his claims have any merit, I'll respond.
But I was never pissed or frustrated.
Fair enough.
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That said, it's time to dig in and reread. I'll start with an unvote for now. While I still think Axxle has a decent chance of being scum, and he's certainly one of my upper scum reads, he may not be the best lynch for multiple reasons. I'll consider it as I reread.
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Right, so Axxle.
Bold play, and I don't think particularly pro-Town play. I get Galz' point about inflating his post count - he's posted a lot, but mostly one-liners. In fact, almost all one-liners. He's very boldly called out a Galz/Munch scumteam early in day 1, but very little analysis other than things like "this scumteam is looking better and better" and "here are some of Galz' posts". His tone seems to stay the same in and out of RVS, like he's still joking around and random voting.
So I think with Axxle we have that old thing of "Scum wouldn't act like that. Except maybe he's scum deliberately trying to act in a way that scum wouldn't." Either way, I don't like it, and like I said, I don't think it's pro-Town. I hope to see some genuine analysis and backing up of his reads.
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Okay, here's why Archetype is scum: He knew scum have daychat! Who else knew that? Seriously, I didn't. I think he brought it up to be cool Mr. Townie, warning us about the scum and their daychat.
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There are no nights...
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Okay, here's why Archetype is scum: He knew scum have daychat! Who else knew that? Seriously, I didn't. I think he brought it up to be cool Mr. Townie, warning us about the scum and their daychat.
I knew this.
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Okay, here's why Archetype is scum: He knew scum have daychat! Who else knew that? Seriously, I didn't. I think he brought it up to be cool Mr. Townie, warning us about the scum and their daychat.
Hmm, I didn't know that either, but some people do their due diligence better and actually read the setup? I would feel pretty darn horrible if we drove a lynch on Arche and it turned out he was just not as lazy as we are..
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When are we all expecting scum to chat?
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I am incredibly comfortable with my vote on Robz. If I am wrong about Robz, I am going to be very disappointed as I really can only explain his play as scummy or uncharacteristically bad town play by Robz.
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I am incredibly comfortable with my vote on Robz. If I am wrong about Robz, I am going to be very disappointed as I really can only explain his play as scummy or uncharacteristically bad town play by Robz.
Could you type out your case on Robz? My town read on you is getting stronger and I agree Robz feels off here. I think your reasons might be more rational and mine more feel-based, but if they both point out to the same direction it should make for a pretty good chance at nailing scum.
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I am incredibly comfortable with my vote on Robz. If I am wrong about Robz, I am going to be very disappointed as I really can only explain his play as scummy or uncharacteristically bad town play by Robz.
As long as you provide yourself with an out...
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I am incredibly comfortable with my vote on Robz. If I am wrong about Robz, I am going to be very disappointed as I really can only explain his play as scummy or uncharacteristically bad town play by Robz.
I'm warming to this, but I want to get through everything again. Certain statements have been really off-beat.
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Usually I feel like I deserve it at least a little bit, but how is my play really scummy? I haven't even said very much.
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Eevee, this is a prime example:
Okay, here's why Archetype is scum: He knew scum have daychat! Who else knew that? Seriously, I didn't. I think he brought it up to be cool Mr. Townie, warning us about the scum and their daychat.
Now, I don't read the setup before we began as I stated at the start of today - but I knew that we were in a "no-night" game - so as Jimmm points out, uhhh, when was Robz EXPECTING scum to talk? I mean, this is a really bad reason to want to lynch somebody, isn't it? Because they knew scum had day-chat in a game with no nights?
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Usually I feel like I deserve it at least a little bit, but how is my play really scummy? I haven't even said very much.
That's definitely a part of it for me.
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Eevee, this is a prime example:
Okay, here's why Archetype is scum: He knew scum have daychat! Who else knew that? Seriously, I didn't. I think he brought it up to be cool Mr. Townie, warning us about the scum and their daychat.
Now, I don't read the setup before we began as I stated at the start of today - but I knew that we were in a "no-night" game - so as Jimmm points out, uhhh, when was Robz EXPECTING scum to talk? I mean, this is a really bad reason to want to lynch somebody, isn't it? Because they knew scum had day-chat in a game with no nights?
I agree, bbut that would have been the only concrete example I could have pointed out.
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Usually I feel like I deserve it at least a little bit, but how is my play really scummy? I haven't even said very much.
Good, then LLALR (literally lynch all lurking Robz) can take effect.
You have GOT to stop playing for your next scum game if you're town. Stop intentionally trying to meta-break.
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Eevee, this is a prime example:
Okay, here's why Archetype is scum: He knew scum have daychat! Who else knew that? Seriously, I didn't. I think he brought it up to be cool Mr. Townie, warning us about the scum and their daychat.
Now, I don't read the setup before we began as I stated at the start of today - but I knew that we were in a "no-night" game - so as Jimmm points out, uhhh, when was Robz EXPECTING scum to talk? I mean, this is a really bad reason to want to lynch somebody, isn't it? Because they knew scum had day-chat in a game with no nights?
But I think it was more on his mind because he was doing it, and he thought it would make him townie for bringing it up. So I'm subverting his expectations.
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Usually I feel like I deserve it at least a little bit, but how is my play really scummy? I haven't even said very much.
Good, then LLALR (literally lynch all lurking Robz) can take effect.
You have GOT to stop playing for your next scum game if you're town. Stop intentionally trying to meta-break.
I'm not! I'm not! I swear I'm not!!!
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I have to go now. Off to see The Hobbit in Gold Class. The deadline is at 3am for me, so I will be able to check back in well before then. Please don't lynch me while I'm gone. You have my blessing to lynch scum if you're sure, and you have my (admittedly weak) reads.
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Eevee, here is another example which Robz never gave an adequate answer to that doesn't exactly add up:
Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
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I feel like I'm being told to act like myself and I don't know how to be me.
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And another that really felt off, although maybe it's because I was the subject of the vote, but this type of "scumhunting" in a jokey manner doesn't feel like town Robz to me at all:
This game is weirdly silent for a Blitz game.
Why doesn't someone vote for Galzria for a bad reason, watch his reaction, and create an Innocent Child?
I can start. Galzria, you have not been very active this game. I know you're scum. Vote: Galzria
Further, when I answered him, he responded with the following. Now pair that up with his most recent "I swear I'm not trying to meta-break" of just a few posts ago, and ask yourself how you're left feeling?
Robz, last time you called someone out for "not participating" was when you yourself were under participating in Pokemon.
Let's have a look back at my content this game vs yours, shall we?
I don't know if that's the last time I did it. Really, I try to mix up my participating levels, independent of whether I am scum, so that participation level never gives me away.
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Those are the sort of things that stood out to me. One could argue that Robz asking if the Fools should claim was scum fishing - but I think that's taking the step into confirmation bias and not good scumhunting.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELoyScC8xSQ
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Eevee, here is another example which Robz never gave an adequate answer to that doesn't exactly add up:
Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I just changed my mind, man. And I've changed it again. You convinced me, Axxle's content was pretty substance-free.
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Eevee, here is another example which Robz never gave an adequate answer to that doesn't exactly add up:
Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I just changed my mind, man. And I've changed it again. You convinced me, Axxle's content was pretty substance-free.
Yes, it was. But for all you -should- know, I'm as likely to be scum as Axxle. You're not forming your own opinions, you're sheeping, and a look back at Blitz-X shows that's one thing scum!Robz is a matter at. You let mcmc and Cuzz blow themselves up because it was easy to play "follow the IC" and take no real stands yourself.
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Eevee, here is another example which Robz never gave an adequate answer to that doesn't exactly add up:
Robz, what changed between these two posts?
I also have a scumread on Axxle. This is not the Axxle I'm used to, for some reason.
But you are wrong my brother. Axxle is almost certainly town. He's driving conversation! That's a very town thing to do, when like no one is saying anything.
I just changed my mind, man. And I've changed it again. You convinced me, Axxle's content was pretty substance-free.
Yes, it was. But for all you -should- know, I'm as likely to be scum as Axxle. You're not forming your own opinions, you're sheeping, and a look back at Blitz-X shows that's one thing scum!Robz is a matter at. You let mcmc and Cuzz blow themselves up because it was easy to play "follow the IC" and take no real stands yourself.
No, no sir! I did not do that! I boldly pushed new cases in that game, friend. Frankly, the IC sheeped me.
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And I've made an original case against Archetype.
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Okay, here's why Archetype is scum: He knew scum have daychat! Who else knew that? Seriously, I didn't. I think he brought it up to be cool Mr. Townie, warning us about the scum and their daychat.
You think I'm scum because I actually read the setup…? I was suprised no one had even talked about it when I read the posts I needed to catch up on. So I brought it up.
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Gonna have to say I support my brother in this one. I think he can tell he took it overboard with trying to change up his meta and came off scummy. I think he's trying to be normal and has been attacked for it. Also flustered robz is town robz, whenever there's an easy case to be made on him it's because he isn't trying not to get lynched.
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And I've made an original case against Archetype.
Your case on Arche is bad and you should feel bad.
Joking aside (that would have a lunatic Zoidberg if I could generate meme's from my mobile), look I understand not knowing the complete setup. I stated in my second post of the game that I hadn't read everything yet. But I WAS checking new posts after Insomniac locked the thread so that I wouldn't miss the start of the game. And in his post JUST before the opening flavor he posted the following:
To clarify there is NO nights, the Witches must have their kill in before the day end, the next day starts immediately.
So really, I don't understand how your "case" makes any sense. Is this really the best that town!Robz has to offer? REALLY? I just have difficulty seeing it - especially in light of your recent scum play in both RMM-IV, and Blitz-X. Yes, your posting style was vastly different in those two games (lurker vs avid poster), but the driving factor behind both was a sheeping Robz who really didn't make waves calling people scum or building cases. In RMM you let Tables and I lead, and you just sheeped along, and in Blitz-X you did the same while Insomniac was alive - only really making any real statements D2 when you played for the win - but there it was "PoE" and still not a real case.
So yes, your flipping on Axxle twice now with no real reason besides "I've been convinced", and your really, really weak case on Arche leave me wondering if this is actually town!Robz. If it is, I'm rather disappointed with what you've had to offer thusfar.
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Gonna have to say I support my brother in this one. I think he can tell he took it overboard with trying to change up his meta and came off scummy. I think he's trying to be normal and has been attacked for it. Also flustered robz is town robz, whenever there's an easy case to be made on him it's because he isn't trying not to get lynched.
Quote of the century.
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And I've made an original case against Archetype.
Your case on Arche is bad and you should feel bad.
Joking aside (that would have a lunatic Zoidberg if I could generate meme's from my mobile), look I understand not knowing the complete setup. I stated in my second post of the game that I hadn't read everything yet. But I WAS checking new posts after Insomniac locked the thread so that I wouldn't miss the start of the game. And in his post JUST before the opening flavor he posted the following:
To clarify there is NO nights, the Witches must have their kill in before the day end, the next day starts immediately.
So really, I don't understand how your "case" makes any sense. Is this really the best that town!Robz has to offer? REALLY? I just have difficulty seeing it - especially in light of your recent scum play in both RMM-IV, and Blitz-X. Yes, your posting style was vastly different in those two games (lurker vs avid poster), but the driving factor behind both was a sheeping Robz who really didn't make waves calling people scum or building cases. In RMM you let Tables and I lead, and you just sheeped along, and in Blitz-X you did the same while Insomniac was alive - only really making any real statements D2 when you played for the win - but there it was "PoE" and still not a real case.
So yes, your flipping on Axxle twice now with no real reason besides "I've been convinced", and your really, really weak case on Arche leave me wondering if this is actually town!Robz. If it is, I'm rather disappointed with what you've had to offer thusfar.
I maintain that the bolded part is especially untrue. I constructed the case against Mcmc, not Insomniac. I led him. Sure, I sheeped in Rmm whatever.
I think you're unfairly honing in on me. I'm not sure why, probably because you're scum. I've contributed more than half the players here.
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Last post before I sink back into that V/LA time period again but…
I don't have a scumread on Robz. Well maybe a very mild one, but that's only because of how his reads have done a 180. But panicy Robz is usually town!Robz, but he could be (and I hope he isn't) playing for his next game.
So mainly null, but am leaning both scum and town. Major hedging, I know, but Robz has, at points, seemed like town!Robz and scum!Robz. I think I'm going to leave my vote on Axxle, though. His forwardness is coming off a bit harsh.
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Eevee, I realize I never answered your question about why I find you scummy(ish):
A large part of that is your vast underposting. I recognize that you went off to crash shortly after the game-start, but going ~#300 posts with what had thusfar been so completely forgettable statements from you was really against the grain of your norm. And as I've pointed out many, many times over - in what is pushing 30 games now, you've only ever been scum 3 times. While that has no direct bearing on what you may or may not have randomly rolled here, it DOES mean that I've got just about 25 games of town meta to compare this Eevee against. And town Eevee rarely, if ever, underposts.
In terms of actual content... Well, you haven't given me much to work with. I've seen some buddying going on that would rub me wrong from anybody but you, so that's a bit null. I always want to think "we can't KEEP BEING TOWN together!" - but that's a pretty ridiculous way to go about making a case - and the vast, vast majority of the time we are, so...
Yeah, I got distracted. Sorry. Exhausted. Want to sleep. My main point was post-count. It's only ever relevant when stacked against what's normal, and you're way below normal. That raised alarms.
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So... I know how I feel about my top two scum reads. Chances are only one - if either - are ACTUALLY scum (I just don't have the confidence to go "Oh look, scumteam, game done"). I also know where I stand with my top two town reads. It's possible one is scum, but I'm comfortable saying not for now.
That's Munch/Drab and Axxle/Robz.
That leaves Jimmm/Arche/mcmc/Eevee
Given that there's likely a scum amongst them, and my reads are vague at best, I would like to hear the opinions of others on these 4.
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Vote: Galzria
I'm not going to let scum Galzria run this game.
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my brother
Is there a twinclaim I should know about?
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His forwardness is coming off a bit harsh.
Yes, and that's scummy how?
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Eevee, I realize I never answered your question about why I find you scummy(ish):
A large part of that is your vast underposting. I recognize that you went off to crash shortly after the game-start, but going ~#300 posts with what had thusfar been so completely forgettable statements from you was really against the grain of your norm. And as I've pointed out many, many times over - in what is pushing 30 games now, you've only ever been scum 3 times. While that has no direct bearing on what you may or may not have randomly rolled here, it DOES mean that I've got just about 25 games of town meta to compare this Eevee against. And town Eevee rarely, if ever, underposts.
In terms of actual content... Well, you haven't given me much to work with. I've seen some buddying going on that would rub me wrong from anybody but you, so that's a bit null. I always want to think "we can't KEEP BEING TOWN together!" - but that's a pretty ridiculous way to go about making a case - and the vast, vast majority of the time we are, so...
Yeah, I got distracted. Sorry. Exhausted. Want to sleep. My main point was post-count. It's only ever relevant when stacked against what's normal, and you're way below normal. That raised alarms.
You can't really compare posting habits in regular games to posting habits in blitz games. I have no reference to blitz eevee though, so you may have a point.
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Vote: Galzria
I'm not going to let scum Galzria run this game.
Is that L-1?
My reads before I go to bed:
Scum:
Galz - I've stated what I want to say, some don't agree, but that's what it is. His attack on Robz seemed kind of out of nowhere too.
Drab Emordnilap - going back through he seemed to have a lot less content than I remember. His final say of "I don't know what to make of Axxle/Galz" is very strange since our argument seemed to be *very* polarizing for everyone else.
Null:
Robz - I think his response to my question seemed town. As scum he would have tried to come up with a better excuse than "I thought a little". The case on him makes me hesitant to put him in the town category though.
Eevee - nothing here
Jimmmmm - his summary posts of people and his thoughts seemed townish, but also sometimes smacked of reaching. not so sure here.
Archetype - his italic vote thing on me seemed very much like he was trying to make things confusing. He's also keeping his vote on me for really questionable reasons. Not much beyond that though.
Town:
mcmcsalot - His vote on me seems townish, don't think scum would do that so weakly.
Axxle
Other:
TheMunch - His reason to vote for Robz seemed solid, but I have a nagging feeling that he and Galz are of same alignments.
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That's a lot of meh...
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Plan is to wake up in 6 hours
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Players I won't lynch at this point (=town reads): Munch, Jimm, Galzria
Town reads that are sort of dwindling: Drab, Axxle
Players I don't have an explicit town read on and could lynch but would need new evidence to come to light: Archetype
Players I find scummy: Robz, mcmc
So, two of my town reads are pushing Robz, someone I've individually noticed feels off as well.
PPE God knows how long, I apparently forgot to hit send before rushing to lunch and stuff. Catching up again!
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my brother
Is there a twinclaim I should know about?
Mcmc is Robz's brother, yeah.
His forwardness is coming off a bit harsh.
Yes, and that's scummy how?
I agree with this. Axxle has the devil-may-care attitude that's usually a town attribute.
I very much disagree with Galzria's attack on Robz being described as out of nowhere. I think it's a solid case for day 1.
Galzria, you might notice I'm underposting in another game at the moment as well. While I don't want to comment on that game further, it's still evidence of me experiencing a phase where I just don't post that much. I did make that humongous catch up post here though, it's not like I'm avoiding commenting on any issues despite not having the highest number of posts. Sure, Axxle with the one liners has me beat on that front but I feel I've commented on all the issues and taken rather clear positions. But I was mostly asking if you have anything else, having an uneasy feeling about people who haven't posted for a while is something I can relate to. Drab's town points are dropping every hour he isn't posting even though I realize he likely just isn't on his computer. That's the thing, not posting is not scummy, but being around to post is towny. And lack of towniness leads to poe suspicions.
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I'm back. Deadline is in less than 4 hours I believe. But seeing as I have work in less than 8 hours, I should really go to bed before then.
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I'm back. Deadline is in less than 4 hours I believe. But seeing as I have work in less than 8 hours, I should really go to bed before then.
Omg really!? Vote: Robz then for sure, just way way better of a lynch than Galzria. I only have phone access and even that will stop in 45min (playing sports, we have a two hour padel game starting in one hour). I'll likely have some degree of accessibility right before the deadline, like can maybe get here to read and vote but don't count on it and I'd say any analysis is unlikely.
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Well the thing about Robz is that he's super hard to read. And we know he does that deliberately, and it's really bad for Town. So I don't have a particular reason to think he's not crazy Town meta-gaming Robz. But I do know that one of these days he'll be crazy scum "meta-gaming" Robz, and because of that I must treat him with extra suspicion.
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Vote: Galzria
I'm not going to let scum Galzria run this game.
Is that L-1?
Wait what? Isn't that just you and Robz ie 2 ie L-3?
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I hate to say it, but I have no reason to think that Robz is scum. Having said that, if we were to lynch a Townie, it's probably best if it's him. I think out of the three that have come under scrutiny, Galz, Robz and Axxle, the most likely scum is Axxle, so Vote: Axxle.
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Do you have a specfic reason to think axxle would be brash and forward as scum, or do you disagree with me in that generally people who have done that have been town?
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And that's L-1. So if this Axxle lynch is to go through, I would suggest waiting at least until maybe an hour before deadline for him to return and defend himself. Obviously keep discussing before then if there are helpful things to say.
So yeah, I'm off to bed. This is different to the last game in that it's highly unlikely that I will return before deadline, so if someone comes up with some compelling case against me then the only way to lynch me day 1 will be in my sleep. But I've tried to put in as much as I can at this stage, and hopefully that can help us hit actual scum.
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Do you have a specfic reason to think axxle would be brash and forward as scum, or do you disagree with me in that generally people who have done that have been town?
I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree. But I think Galz' case on Axxle is probably the most convincing we've had, and Axxle's case on Galz is not. But it could very well be that everyone in the spotlight is Town and the scumteam is something random like Drab/mcmc. I just don't know. But I think Axxle has been over the top bold, and to me it kind of reads like he's trying to imitate a bold Townie. Just things like "It's obviously Munch/Galz, that's GG let me know when the lynches go through" seem a bit fake to me. I'm nowhere near certain that he's scum, but it's the best I've got and I need to contribute something before I go to bed.
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Drab's town points are dropping every hour he isn't posting even though I realize he likely just isn't on his computer. That's the thing, not posting is not scummy, but being around to post is towny. And lack of towniness leads to poe suspicions.
GMT -6; I get to sleep sometime. Also, I feel like its weird that you say I'm looking scummier for something that other people have accused you of this game (underposting), then say that's not actually a scummy thing, then in the same breath say that it's anti-town, which makes it scummy after all!
Until rereading this morning I was ready to say tha I think axxle would be my pick. Looking back, though, I seems to me that he's actually fishing to see who wants to use his "bad town play" as an excuse to lynch a townie.
Galzria... I agree that the attack on galz was without much merit, but I hate the "man what kind of arguement is that" defense where one doesn't even acknowledge the points (or lack thereof) against one. I guess looking back, there wasn't that much to actually refute, but the... I don't know, arrogance sets off alarm bells.
Robz, I don't like it. I don't like the way you've been on and off and on again; I don't like that first vote on galz that sat there for so long with awful justification.
Moving to computer from phone, but right now, axxle or robz are my leaners.
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wow you guys were a chatty bunch while I was asleep. phone posting so I won't be quoting as much as I'd like to but here it goes. eevee asked me in page 11 what my case on robz is or to spell it out or something like that. the car basically boils down to a lot of weird interactions and terrible cases that are uncharacteristic for robz. but the main thing that set off alarms was the discussion about post quantity relating to alignment. robz knows better and is instead just providing self serving arguments instead of using his experience as scum to help town. couple that with a 180 flip on axxle that he has since flipped back under pressure. I'm happy
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Vote:Robz
The case he has on me about the daychat is just so weird. Read back a little and it seems he's been using his meta quite frequently to prove he's Town. Maybe it's just me, but I typically find this a scum tell. The 180 flip on Axxle is strange too.
I think Axxle has been having very scummy, anti town behavior, but I'd suprised if he were actually scum.
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So... I know how I feel about my top two scum reads. Chances are only one - if either - are ACTUALLY scum (I just don't have the confidence to go "Oh look, scumteam, game done"). I also know where I stand with my top two town reads. It's possible one is scum, but I'm comfortable saying not for now.
That's Munch/Drab and Axxle/Robz.
I don't like agreeing with you because I don't trust you. >:(
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In reference to galz, you are one of my top town reads, as far as your top scum reads, I agree obviously with axle and drab does look scummy to me, I wouldn't want to lynch drab because I'm worried he just has a play-style that looks scummy to me. As far as munch goes I will do a reread. And you have my opinion on robz
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My vote count must be off. This is what I see as current votes:
Galzria (2) - Axxle, Robz888
Axxle (2) - mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm
Robz888 (3) - TheMunch, Eevee, Archetype
Not Voting (2) Drab Emordnilap, Galzria
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Looking back over everything, I think
Vote: Robz888
has to be my pick. I don't think town would turn around and then back around so fast. And his most recent post ("No Galz you aren't running this game you scum VOTE") tips me towards him instead of Galz or Axxle.
I still don't like how Galz was reacting (or not) to the tirade from Axxle, though. But Robz seems like a safer bet right now.
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Mod is here and catching up votecount imminent.
Deadline in 40 minutes.
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Vote Count 1-6
Galzria (2) - Axxle, Robz888
Axxle (2) - mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm
Robz888 (4) - TheMunch, Eevee, Archetype, Drab Emordnilap {L-1}
Not Voting (1) - Galzria
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
In the event of a tie at deadline, hidden democracy will be implemented.
Deadline: 8:30am PST (11:30am forum time[EST]) Wednesday January 23, 2013
Thats in 35 minutes!
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Insom, if no one hamers Robz, will he die with the current vote state?
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Insom, if no one hamers Robz, will he die with the current vote state?
Yes
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Ok good. I was just about to head out and I dont know if I will be available for the next half hour. However, I would prefer someone to hammer Robz in the next 30 mins instead. I encourage people to read Robz.
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Here. I like my vote on Robz still, whats the time around there though? Now would be the time to claim, I'd like to avoid the craziness of the last 5 minutes (I'll have phone access if any).
Drab, that's what I was saying. Its a combination of your brain forgetting the contributions the other guy made when he stil was on and other people seeming townier I guess, I don't know. I wouldn't say you are appearing less towny, maybe others are just more towny.
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Deadline in 15!
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I'm here now as well, and I'm willing to hammer. I don't like deadlining out all that much. If you feel a person is scum, put your name on their lynch.
As for Robz vote on me, I find it's contrasts to Axxle's push on me all game particularly amusing. Axxle has been relentlessly pushing for my lynch because I wasn't "participating or scum hunting". When I switch from theory talk to reads talk, I get Robz "i won't let him run the show" vote.
So:
Axxle votes Galzria for not participating.
Robz votes Galzria FOR participating.
Well. We'll see what to make of that soon enough I suppose.
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6 minutes. I'll hammer at T -1
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Robz888 is online. I guess he doesn't want to defend himself?
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Hey Insomniac, can I just leave a CO to hammer at 11:29? ;D
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Hey Insomniac, can I just leave a CO to hammer at 11:29? ;D
Haha nope.
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Just woke up. This is why setup speculation is antitown, we lost half the day.
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And so the clock turns.
Vote: Robz888
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Thread locked temporarily for flavour
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The thread's not actually locked. Is that part of the flavor?
Delicious thread.
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Here comes the sun I think to myself. Surely my brothers and the village had found the first witch. Kicking and screaming they dragged Robz888 to the top of the hill. "If you are a witch, then we will kill you for living, if you are not a witch and we are wrong well then you get to go splat down below." Galzria said to Robz.
"Give my guitar to my wife so that it doesn't weep" Robz said.
With that Galzria pushed Robz from the top of my mountain. I watched as he fell. Suddenly TheMunch started to float. Well this is quite a spectacle, I think as TheMunch blows up blood splattering on my face and his liver landing in front of my hut.
I resume looking at the still falling Robz hoping to see him fly, but he continues and continues to fall until....SPLAT.
I look at my brothers in the crowd. Together we say "obla-di, obla-da" The villagers look at us like bafoons. But now my brothers will be able to use their powers to help the village as it looks like they'll need it.
FINAL VOTE COUNT
Vote Count 1-6
Galzria (2) - Axxle, Robz888
Axxle (2) - mcmcsalot, Jimmmmm
Robz888 (5) - TheMunch, Eevee, Archetype, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria
Not Voting (0)
Robz888 has been lynched, he was a Villager
TheMunch has been nightkilled he was a Villager
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Thread Unlocked! Day 2 Start!
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Vote Count 2-1
Not Voting (7) - Eevee, mcmcsalot, Archetype, Axxle, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria
Deadline: 8:40am PST (11:40am forum time [EST]) Thursday January 24, 2013
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I'm here now as well, and I'm willing to hammer. I don't like deadlining out all that much. If you feel a person is scum, put your name on their lynch.
As for Robz vote on me, I find it's contrasts to Axxle's push on me all game particularly amusing. Axxle has been relentlessly pushing for my lynch because I wasn't "participating or scum hunting". When I switch from theory talk to reads talk, I get Robz "i won't let him run the show" vote.
So:
Axxle votes Galzria for not participating.
Robz votes Galzria FOR participating.
Well. We'll see what to make of that soon enough I suppose.
I think you weren't participating early in the day, and Robz was talking about later in the day.
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I'm here now as well, and I'm willing to hammer. I don't like deadlining out all that much. If you feel a person is scum, put your name on their lynch.
As for Robz vote on me, I find it's contrasts to Axxle's push on me all game particularly amusing. Axxle has been relentlessly pushing for my lynch because I wasn't "participating or scum hunting". When I switch from theory talk to reads talk, I get Robz "i won't let him run the show" vote.
So:
Axxle votes Galzria for not participating.
Robz votes Galzria FOR participating.
Well. We'll see what to make of that soon enough I suppose.
I think you weren't participating early in the day, and Robz was talking about later in the day.
It still doesn't change the fact that you were voting me for quite literally completely opposite reasons.
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"Galz wasn't participating early in the day, I'm voting for him for that"
"Galz scummily participated later in the day, I'm voting for him for that"
Not opposite, different but not opposite.
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Why would scum kill TheMunch? He was first onto Robz's case.
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Well, time to claim.
I'm a Fool (Just because Insomniac really wanted to see that claim. I'm sure he's cracking up right now).
And I'm very interested in finding out if Axxle is town. However, I would like thoughts from everybody else (not named Axxle of course).
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Why would scum kill TheMunch? He was first onto Robz's case.
Because he was town and everybody read him as such. Maybe he gave off PR vibes, but I find it more likely that they didn't want a "trusted" townie running around
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I'm interested to see whether there's 3 Fool claims. I don't think we ever agreed that Fools should claim right away Day 2, and if someone's going to fakeclaim, they should be the first to claim, not the last.
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I'm interested to see whether there's 3 Fool claims. I don't think we ever agreed that Fools should claim right away Day 2, and if someone's going to fakeclaim, they should be the first to claim, not the last.
I think they should, the day is really short.
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Well, time to claim.
I'm a Fool (Just because Insomniac really wanted to see that claim. I'm sure he's cracking up right now).
And I'm very interested in finding out if Axxle is town. However, I would like thoughts from everybody else (not named Axxle of course).
Well, that's nice.
How about you try the town mislynch? Eevee, Archetype, Drab Emordnilap
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bah, told you robz was town...also im the other fool.
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Well, time to claim.
I'm a Fool (Just because Insomniac really wanted to see that claim. I'm sure he's cracking up right now).
And I'm very interested in finding out if Axxle is town. However, I would like thoughts from everybody else (not named Axxle of course).
Well, that's nice.
How about you try the town mislynch? Eevee, Archetype, Drab Emordnilap
Because Robz deserved to be lynched, and I feel it's more likely that his wagon was town made than scum made, and you've done nothing useful all game while calling others out for the same. Classic scum play.
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I still fail to see what your definition of useful is.
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Well, that's nice.
How about you try the town mislynch? Eevee, Archetype, Drab Emordnilap
How about you try the other person Munch suspected?
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I believe axxle is scum, then any one of drab, eevee, and arch
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I still fail to see what your definition of useful is.
And I fail to see what your definition of useless is.
So call it even.
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well my best guess is axxle drab for now, eevee is the next best with arch coming in fourth. Jim is a town read for me, how do you feel galz
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my battery is dyinggg, I'll get to charge it in a couple of hours. haven't read anything past the flip. gah, such a rookie mistake.
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So why am I your #2 scum read, mc?
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I still fail to see what your definition of useful is.
And I fail to see what your definition of useless is.
So call it even.
I was the one who got us out of RVS, no one else even tried.
I was giving reads before everyone else.
I was talking about our game instead of our metagame while the rest of the town wasted their time talking about the setup, which is clearly in the OPs, and talking about what scum and PRs *should* have done. Things that don't further the town game *at all*.
I am really not scum.
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I was the one who got us out of RVS, no one else even tried.
You STARTED random voting stage. Why did we need random voting anyways? We only get a day.
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I believe axxle is scum, then any one of drab, eevee, and arch
Indeed. That was the general conclusion I was at yesterday with:
So... I know how I feel about my top two scum reads. Chances are only one - if either - are ACTUALLY scum (I just don't have the confidence to go "Oh look, scumteam, game done"). I also know where I stand with my top two town reads. It's possible one is scum, but I'm comfortable saying not for now.
That's Munch/Drab and Axxle/Robz.
That leaves Jimmm/Arche/mcmc/Eevee
Given that there's likely a scum amongst them, and my reads are vague at best, I would like to hear the opinions of others on these 4.
This post. Obviously pulling you out of the middle 4 leaves Jimmm/Eevee/Arche - and yeah, Drab could probably slide back down into that group.
My general thoughts are that I'm highly suspicious of Jimmm first and foremost. He's been talkative elsewhere, but his presence is hugely lacking from this game. He would probably top any pairs list.
Next would be Arche - who, while I think Robz case on was bad - did have that whole "let's italicize our votes" thing that read as scum trying to be over-cautious town.
Next is a toss-up between Eevee and Drab. Eevee IS underposting, and it feels very, very out of character for him. Apathy and "I'm not posting much anywhere" has traditionally been a scum fall-back line for him. So I'm wary.
Drab was my strongest town read, although I'll admit that not knowing anything about him it's harder to get comfortable reads here. I would have no difficulty in seeing him as scum, but right now I just can't put my finger on it.
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If a fool dies on night 1, do they flip fool, or villager?
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drab your my number 2 scum read because you epressed scum feelings toward axxle from the begining, you then turned on under posters very hard, and you said you didn't trust galz. When axxle had 2 votes and robz had 3 you then voted for robz with very little to go on, merely said I don't like the way he flip floped. This reads to me as scum doing some solid talk, pushing on people that already have suspicioun, axxle/galz, and pushing for lurkers, all of these are safe pushes and then voting for the person you think is going down for the most recent case on them.
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drab your my number 2 scum read because you epressed scum feelings toward axxle from the begining, you then turned on under posters very hard, and you said you didn't trust galz. When axxle had 2 votes and robz had 3 you then voted for robz with very little to go on, merely said I don't like the way he flip floped. This reads to me as scum doing some solid talk, pushing on people that already have suspicioun, axxle/galz, and pushing for lurkers, all of these are safe pushes and then voting for the person you think is going down for the most recent case on them.
Once I declare my choice, I'll only take input on it's use from you.
If you had to pick one of those 4 to go after, which would it be? I would pick Jimmm, but there's merit to your logic behind Drab.
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Rereading, I think the flavor text confirmed that both fools are alive, so nevermind.
@mc: I really didn't like Robz. (The playing, not him as a person; I don't know him obviously) I trusted Munch, and I trust Eevee, and Robz and Axxle seemed even to me, so I went with Robz. Partially, I wanted to see if anyone jumped on the hammer, which didn't happen. (I don't think L-1 counts.) Also I don't think that secret democracy is good for the town at all. Anything that keeps information from the town is bad.
In hindsight, Robz was the wrong choice, but I don't think he was the wrong "choice" -- he was the best guess I had, and voting for him opened up the most possibilities to gain information if I was wrong.
If I had a PR, right now I would point it at Jimmmmm.
PPE: I see that Galzria agrees with me. Well, except for the second part there.
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If a fool died they would flip as such.
Hidden democracy releases the information after all votes are in
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I am nervous about pointing the finger at jimm, I did think his D1 posts were towny though that may be something to look into because I have never found jimm towny. So for once I feel like jimm is just suffering from the time zone difference and I still have a town read on him.
As far as eevee goes, I agree with you he has been under contributing and for once I am not convinced hes town. This would be a possible target for your power.
I need to reread arch real quick and I believe I already spoke on drab and axxle
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arch's vote switch to robz came after eevee voted and said he was going to leave, his vote for robz was backed up by very similar reasons he didn't vote for robz origionally. Baisically reading arch it looks like he supported me on axxle all the way untill robz the robz lynch picked up traction and he went for it.
Also I think I am only suspicious of eevee because he was suspicious of me, eevee I believe you have been able to read me very well, why did you think I was scum in this game.
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Can someone put together a cross section of those willing to vote Axxle and those that voted Robz?
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its only archetype and drab
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its only archetype and drab
Huh.
So... If Axxle is town, then it's highly probable that there's scum in Arche/Drab. If Axxle is scum, it's highly probable that his partner is in Eevee/Jimm.
But, in the case that Axxle is town, it's unlikely that BOTH scum are Arche/Drab since I doubt they would both put themselves in such a hot position. So in EITHER case there's likely scum in Eevee/Jimmm.
Would you agree mcmc?
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why couldn't axxle's partner be drab or arch
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Checking in a and checking out. Just want to get a feel for where we're at. Suspects: Jimmmmm, Axxle, Eevee, Arch, Drab. So from my point of view {Axxle, Eevee, Arch, Drab} contains 2 scum, 2 Town.
Here's my thought on what we should do: if we have vigs, we should vote for who to use them on and do that, and at least keep the kills directed by Town. Bulletproof is meaningless now that we've had exactly 2 claims, since if a Fool tells me they tried to kill someone, then they did.
If both our Fools are vigs, that means we have 3 Town-directed kills, minus 1 for each Bulletproof Witch we vig. If we hit a Witch and 2 Villagers, that will take us to a day 3 lylo containing 1 Fool, 1 Villager and 1 Witch, in which the Fool will have to decide which one is the Witch. If we hit 2 Witches we win, 3 Villagers we lose, 2 Villagers we lose, 1 Villager and 1 Witch will take us to 3-1 lylo which is worse than 2-1 lylo, 1 Witch will take us to 4-1 and give us 2 chances to find the Witch, although for the 2nd one we'll be IC-less, and 1 Villager will take us to a 3-2 lylo. In summary, seeing as killing 2 Villagers or 1 Villager/1 Witch are both really bad or fairly bad, I think we should only use vigs if we have 2 of them, and if we hit BP Witch with the first, don't use the second.
Without putting in a re-read or anything, if I had to call the scumteam now, it would be Axxle/Arch.
I don't know if I'll be able to contribute at all while I'm at work, but I'll be home in about 11 hours so I can contribute more then.
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why couldn't axxle's partner be drab or arch
Because it's unlikely that they would've been pushing his lynch along in the key middle-of-the-wagon section. That's where wagons often make or break. Without their votes I'm just making a case on Axxle that nobody agrees with. With their votes Axxle is a real contender to be lynched. I just don't see scum making that call there in most cases. It's least likely to me. If they're going to bus it'll be early, or late. But not as often in the key middle positions that make the wagon happen.
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why couldn't axxle's partner be drab or arch
I feel I made it clear on day 1 that I wasn't a fan of Axxle.
PPE: Full disclosure, I didn't ever actually vote for Axxle.
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why couldn't axxle's partner be drab or arch
I feel I made it clear on day 1 that I wasn't a fan of Axxle.
PPE: Full disclosure, I didn't ever actually vote for Axxle.
Voting is equivalent to "intent to vote" or "pushed the case" for me here. If, at the time Axxle was transitioning from my calling him out for sloppy play to when he began to pick up steam as a potential lynch you were pushing it along, then I simply have to have my doubts that you're his scum partner.
Not, mind you, that you're town. Axxle very well could be town and we could have 1 scum in Eevee/Jimmm and 1 in you/Arche.
@mcmc,
Part of the reason I unvoted Axxle yesterday was that as scummy as I found him to be (and I did and still do), at the end of the day I had to ask myself the simple question of: How often do scum play like this? Like, go as ridiculously far out of their way to be as bold and present as possible (queue Robz taking notes for his next scum game) just to draw attention to themselves so that town will go "nah, that's too bold"?
The truth is, it just doesn't happen. I mean, could it? Yeah, absolutely. It's what we're all paranoid of. It's why we continue to jump at play like that and push lynches through over it because "he's just scum thinking we'll clear him for this crazy play".
But 49 times out of 50, that play was just sloppy town play. The Axxle lynch was too easy. And further I just find it MUCH more likely that scum would want to sit back and watch town blow itself up. THAT'S a meta that's been a hell of a lot more consistent than scum coming into a game trying to blow themselves up for town cred.
I posted the question at the start of D2 about people's thoughts that I should use my power on Axxle to draw out responses. If Axxle is scum here, he's the 1 in 50 that actually try to play this way. I'm willing to lose to that - at least, I'm willing (and much more inclined) to look for scum elsewhere today.
I am a Vig
I'm reasonably confident that there's one scum in Eevee/Jimmm. If I'm right about Axxle being town, then the second is in Drab/Arche.
I would like to shoot at one of Eevee/Jimmm. Mcmc, which do you think is more likely to be scum?
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well I posed a question to eevee and would like to hear him answer it. Why did he find me scummy. Though if I ha to say now I lean more scum on eevee.
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Well, the town reads I've previously gotten on you have occured after an event of sorts, usually seeing you under pressure. I didn't see that here, but I didn't really see you responding to any cases because there were none. I just didn't find myself agreeing with you a whole lot like I have in previous games. Oh well!
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it was also a poe of sorts, you not doing anything that seems like something you couldn't have done as scum.
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Archetype would be my #1 pick for scum now. He has seemed his (towny) self, but we just have so much less to take reads on from him. All the other three were varying degrees of town reads, so obviously this far this game hasn't been very glorious for me, but maybe that gets better.
Getting vigged doesn't sound much fun at all, so obviously I think it should be jimm out of us two. I'm pretty sure I would if I was scum too though, so that's not very helpful.
My scumlikelinessrankings, ignoring all pair analysis, would go archetype>drab>jimm>axxle, but it's very close because they all appear so towny :(
Galzria's pair analysis looked solid and I trust his judgement, I'll read that again and try to tackle that in my next post.
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Hmm. Hmm. Would be great to know axxle's alignment! Calling archetype-drab for the spectators though.
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If Axxle doesn't flip scum, I won't know what to think. Between Eevee and Jimmmmm, I would vote for targeting Jimmmmm.
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Mcmc - Was Eevee's response satisfactory to you?
Outside of other influence which may or may not be tainted by scum, who would you have me shoot? I still find Jimmm to be my top pick, but I'm willing to listen to your thoughts and go with who you want.
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Well Galz's play seems to be making sense now.
Archetype still hasn't posted today, we should probably hold off on vigging until then right?
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Well Galz's play seems to be making sense now.
Archetype still hasn't posted today, we should probably hold off on vigging until then right?
(his play from yesterday in the context I have now i should say)
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I think Galzria was making a lot of sense yesterday (and still is). Axxle is starting to feel a bit like scum Lekkit that wanted to suspect raerae the ic, I'm wondering if I'm giving him too much town cred for the forwardness if his early play?
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I'm off to sleeps, back in 8!
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eevee's response was satisfactory, i still am not sure between eevee and jimm though seeing as I don't find either of them as scummy as axxle/arch/drab. lots of people seem to think axxle is town and I understand it is unlikely that arch/drab is the scum team. I would say lets wait for jimm to come in and comment.
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Also the issue with this power role is everyone is waiting to hear what we are going to do with our powers, I want everyone to still be talking about who they would like to lynch, vigging that person is a way to check. So other town players should not have stopped scumhunting, axxle, you were wrong on you push for robz and galz your other scum read is an IC so what do you think now, same question to drab
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I've said who I think should be next. If I'm wrong about axxle, then I have no business in this game, and jimmmmm would be my next suspect. Axxle for the way he acted day 1, Munch also suspected axxle. And jimmmmm... I don't know, I need to go reread jimmmmm.
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Vote Count 2-2
Not Voting (7) - Eevee, mcmcsalot, Archetype, Axxle, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria
Deadline: 8:40am PST (11:40am forum time [EST]) Thursday January 24, 2013
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Okay I reread Jimm, hes my top town read his posts have been the most helpful analysis of anyone, also he was very protown in the way he has gone about wanting votes cast and wanting to give people time to defend themselves.
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I've said who I think should be next. If I'm wrong about axxle, then I have no business in this game, and jimmmmm would be my next suspect. Axxle for the way he acted day 1, Munch also suspected axxle. And jimmmmm... I don't know, I need to go reread jimmmmm.
Conviniently forgetting Robz and GalzI called me town?
My strongest scum read at the moment is Drab. I also think Eevee is scummy this game, hasn't really made a presence, and usually has stronger reads than this at this point ij the game.
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I've said who I think should be next. If I'm wrong about axxle, then I have no business in this game, and jimmmmm would be my next suspect. Axxle for the way he acted day 1, Munch also suspected axxle. And jimmmmm... I don't know, I need to go reread jimmmmm.
Conviniently forgetting Robz and GalzI called me town?
My strongest scum read at the moment is Drab. I also think Eevee is scummy this game, hasn't really made a presence, and usually has stronger reads than this at this point ij the game.
I didn't forget; I don't agree with them.
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Okay I reread Jimm, hes my top town read his posts have been the most helpful analysis of anyone, also he was very protown in the way he has gone about wanting votes cast and wanting to give people time to defend themselves.
I'm planning on shooting Eevee then - but I don't find any of Jimm's posts to be more than empty numbers talk. Easy to produce as town or scum. And he's been absent for large blocks of time - now, I won't fault him for having to sleep - but the amount he's been gone leaves me feeling like scum just not being present so he doesn't need to comment on anything.
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Hi all, I'm semi-here, but don't expect anything substantial for the next 9 hours. Just a thought I had (WIFOM alert!), if Eevee was Town I would have thought he'd've been a great target for the nightkill.
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Hi all, I'm semi-here, but don't expect anything substantial for the next 9 hours. Just a thought I had (WIFOM alert!), if Eevee was Town I would have thought he'd've been a great target for the nightkill.
Why?
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I think he's come under less suspicion than Munch, although maybe that's just me thinking of him as always Townie. Galz has mentioned a scumread on him come to think of it, so I don't know.
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galz you have played with eevee much more then me and I am not confident he is town so I don't think viging him is a bad idea,
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So if he doesn't die we just lynch him right? Ie we don't try for another vig.
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(If mcmc is a vig too.)
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galz you have played with eevee much more then me and I am not confident he is town so I don't think viging him is a bad idea,
I'm not at all convinced he's town either - in fact I've read him much more scummy than not. It's just that Jimmm's play raises SO many subconscious red flags that I can't explain. He just FEELS like classic scum hiding to me.
But... Outside your read on Cuzz in ZM-X, your reads have been pretty good so far, so... Let's do this then. Sending Ins my PM (and hoping I have the strength not to change the name at the last minute!)
((By the way, I think Axxle here is your Cuzz of Blitz-X. I fully understand why you find him scummy - it's for those exact reasons that I don't though))
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Also, I tend to think Galz should only vig if mcmc is one too.
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It's just that Jimmm's play raises SO many subconscious red flags that I can't explain. He just FEELS like classic scum hiding to me.
I understand why you think that, and I'm here and at your service. If you have any involved tasks for me they'll have to wait, but I certainly have no reason to hide.
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BANG!
The echo of the gunfire reaches me up here on the mountain, I look down to see what the town has done and I see Eevee in a crumpled mess in the center of the square. As I watch his normal complexion fades to that of a green one, seems the town has nagged a witch!
Eevee has been killed. He was a witch
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Bang bang.
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Vote Count 2-3
Not Voting (6) - mcmcsalot, Archetype, Axxle, Jimmmmm, Drab Emordnilap, Galzria
With 6 Alive it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline: 8:40am PST (11:40am forum time [EST]) Thursday January 24, 2013
Eevee is no longer allowed to post in daychat.
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Hooray!
Although this looks bad on me, I think.
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Oh snap! Nice.
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yay, he picked investigate proof. Well I can say now, I am also a vig.
Galz I can totally see what your saying about axxle and I am taking that into consideration. So my best choice would be drab at this point but we should look to see what teams look right with eevee.
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Now if mcmc is a vig he needs to shoot someone. I don't even care if it's me.
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yay, he picked investigate proof. Well I can say now, I am also a vig.
Galz I can totally see what your saying about axxle and I am taking that into consideration. So my best choice would be drab at this point but we should look to see what teams look right with eevee.
I tell you what, it would be awfully weird for Eevee to be so friendly towards me on day 1 if we were the scum team.
I know you guys are convinced axxle is too crazy to be scum, but that's still my vote. Or Jimmmmm.
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Now if mcmc is a vig he needs to shoot someone. I don't even care if it's me.
Why in the world would I shoot you...
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Now if mcmc is a vig he needs to shoot someone. I don't even care if it's me.
Why in the world would I shoot you...
No idea, but I just mean if we end up mislynching today, then shooting me (or another Townie) is better than not shooting at all, since there will then be less Townies around to mislynch at lylo tomorrow. Obviously I'd rather you shoot scum and win it for us.
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yay, he picked investigate proof. Well I can say now, I am also a vig.
Galz I can totally see what your saying about axxle and I am taking that into consideration. So my best choice would be drab at this point but we should look to see what teams look right with eevee.
Drab is my first choice at the moment as well, but I'll do some pairs analysis in a bit.
Ultimately I think at a very base level he could be partners with anybody.
He wasn't pushing the Robz wagon, and I would like to think that there WAS scum there, which points to Arche/Drab, but if scum could get by without being on that wagon at all I think they would've done so.
Eh, I'm thinking to much from memory. I'll go back and look at facts in a bit.
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maybe classic one scum on one scum off the mislynch?
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So, Jimmm? Meh, doubt it.
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Galzria - Fool
mcmcsalot - Fool
Off wagon:
Jimmmmm
Axxle
On wagon:
Drab Emordnilap
Archetype
I'm wondering what we can pick out from this:
So, tldr, conclusion:
Town reads on Axxle and Jimm. Galzria and Axxle can't both be scum. I actually agree with Galzria's sentiment about Munch in that I agree with him a lot more than usual, but I don't know what to make of that. Hesitant light town read? Top scum read probably mcmc, he has given me emotion-based town reads earlier that have turned out to be correct, so I feel comfortable reading him. He doesn't feel towny here to me, maybe he just hasn't gotten online time to prove his towniness, but the posting he has done hasn't felt like the town mcmc I've identified in the past. Also slightly worried of Robz because he feels to be surprisingly nicely in the background (not blaming you for this Robz, it's just that usually people line up to mislynch you for terrible reasons and I get to defend you because your reaction just screams town to me, hasnt happened here). Null on Arch, although he usually reads scummy to me so I don't know what that means.
I'll be online for the following 8 hours, which is great because playing catch up in blitz is pretty hard.
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So drab is the person I would like to shoot but arch just isn't around and has been no help recently, he needs to get in here and give something for me to go on.
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So drab is the person I would like to shoot but arch just isn't around and has been no help recently, he needs to get in here and give something for me to go on.
Finished rereading Eevee. He has pretty prominent interactions with Axxle and Drab early on (at least, he took "stances" on those two). There is almost NO interaction with Archetype however, which I find interesting.
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Archetype has all of 13 posts this game, so rereading him shouldn't be difficult.
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So drab is the person I would like to shoot but arch just isn't around and has been no help recently, he needs to get in here and give something for me to go on.
Finished rereading Eevee. He has pretty prominent interactions with Axxle and Drab early on (at least, he took "stances" on those two). There is almost NO interaction with Archetype however, which I find interesting.
Totally agree this is why arch is my shot if he doesn't come talk, in the case that he is town drab would be the lynch I want
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Basically we need to pick one Town out of {Jimmmmm, Drab, Arch, Axxle} and we win. Personally I'd nominate myself.
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Basically we need to pick one Town out of {Jimmmmm, Drab, Arch, Axxle} and we win. Personally I'd nominate myself.
I nominate you as well, but me being ic doesn't make me infallible especially with only one scum left, drab, arch, axle's opinions matter too.
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Basically we need to pick one Town out of {Jimmmmm, Drab, Arch, Axxle} and we win. Personally I'd nominate myself.
I nominate you as well, but me being ic doesn't make me infallible especially with only one scum left, drab, arch, axle's opinions matter too.
Your opinion means the most at the moment, seeing as if we misvig and mislynch today, you're the one who'll most likely be deciding our fate tomorrow.
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Jimmm, who do you think is town out of {Drab, Arch, Axxle}?
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Jimmm, who do you think is town out of {Drab, Arch, Axxle}?
At this stage I'd probably say Drab, but I'm really not sure.
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Basically we need to pick one Town out of {Jimmmmm, Drab, Arch, Axxle} and we win. Personally I'd nominate myself.
I nominate you as well, but me being ic doesn't make me infallible especially with only one scum left, drab, arch, axle's opinions matter too.
Your opinion means the most at the moment, seeing as if we misvig and mislynch today, you're the one who'll most likely be deciding our fate tomorrow.
What makes you think I'll die and not mcmc? I'm the one that pulled the pairs apart to get to you/Eevee, but mcmc was the one that gave his vote for me to shoot Eevee.
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Just because you're Galz, scum-hunter extraordinaire.
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But yes, props to mcmc for that.
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Basically we need to pick one Town out of {Jimmmmm, Drab, Arch, Axxle} and we win. Personally I'd nominate myself.
We can do that? I nominate myself, too!
Weren't you the one who was just saying "Hey, I don't mind if I get shot"? And now you're saying "Hey, make sure these other three guys die before I do"?
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Weren't you the one who was just saying "Hey, I don't mind if I get shot"? And now you're saying "Hey, make sure these other three guys die before I do"?
Meh, I was just emphasising the importance of the second vig, that is, a Townie being vigged today is way better than no one being vigged today. Obviously the nominating myself part wasn't entirely serious, but we CAN win by picking one Townie.
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Finally here, caught up and everything.
Didn't expect Eevee to be a Witch, had a townread on him.
Seems like scum chose Investigation Immune. I think Galz should definitally use his power today. Him or mcmc are bound to die today.
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Basically we need to pick one Town out of {Jimmmmm, Drab, Arch, Axxle} and we win.
I pick myself, of course, but I'd have to pick Jimmmm.
Drab is coming off a bit scummy
Don't know what to make of Axxle's play. Could be a very forward scumplay, but Axxle is usually like this when he's Town.
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Votes Cast:
Munch votes Galz
Axxle votes Galz
mcmc votes Robz
Axxle votes Drab
Axxle votes Galz
Drab votes Jimmm
Robz votes Galz
mcmc votes Axxle
Munch votes Robz
Robz votes Arche
Galz votes Axxle
Arche votes Axxle
Robz votes Galz
Eevee votes Robz
Jimm votes Axxle
Arche votes Robz
Drab votes Robz
Galz votes Robz
By player:
Robz voted for: Galz, Arch, Galz
Munch voted for: Galz, Robz
Galz voted for: Axxle, Robz
mcmc voted for: Robz, Axxle
(Those are all the town players. I -really- think that Axxle is town. Look at the list of people that drew votes at the top: Robz, Axxle and me. All good lynches for scum to help/let go through)
Axxle voted for: Galz, Drab, Galz
Drab voted for: Jimmm, Robz
Arche voted for: Axxle, Robz
Jimm voted for: Axxle
(HIGHLY suspicious of Jimmm coming out of this. His vote on Axxle was RIGHT when the Axxle wagon was dying, and the Robz one picking up. It was the first vote following scum!Eevee voting for Robz. Eevee's partner would want to be in a different place than Eevee, and where better than the second-now-dying-but-also-town-wagon of Axxle? Fits the meta of a scum partner to a T)
Eevee voted for: Robz
(Ok, so THAT doesn't tell us much).
In reverse:
Robz was voted for by: mcmc, Munch, !Eevee!, Arch, Drab, Galz
Munch was voted for by:
Galz was voted for by: Munch, Axxle, Axxle, Robz, Robz
mcmc was voted for by:
---
Axxle was voted for by: mcmc, Galz, Arch, Jimmm
Drab was voted for by: Axxle
Arch was voted for by: Robz
Jimm was voted for by: Drab
---
Eevee was voted for by:
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My opinion, mcmc, would be to shoot Jimm, then lynch Arche or Drab if Jimm flips town. Tomorrow, lynch the other.
If Axxle is scum, then scum deserve to win and he gets my nod for MVP. But I really - really really - don't think he is. He's my choice to be our "One town" hands down. 100% over the other 3.
At that point, it really doesn't matter TOO much what order we do things in, but my belief is that Jimm is scum - and that's based both on my gut read from earlier along with the vote history.
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I really want to be right on jimm for once so is it okay if I shoot drab and we lynch jimm then arch
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I really want to be right on jimm for once so is it okay if I shoot drab and we lynch jimm then arch
Yeah, any order on those 3 work for me. I'm pretty damn sure we win regardless, and if we don't then Axxle played the most daring and ballsy scum game to date. Like (and I know this predates your time here) the scum version of TINAS in M-I. I just do NOT believe that's the case.
So go for it. Shoot whatever you like here, then we'll lynch Jimm if needed and the third lastly if it comes to it.
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Another loud bang shakes the walls of my hut. Once again I dart out to see whats happened.
Drab Emordnilap lays dead in the center of the town. I patiently wait to see his face...not change...seems lightning does not often strike twice.
Drab Emordnilap has been killed, he was a Villager
(He is prevented from posting here)
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your turn galz vote: Jimm
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Vote Count 2-4
Jimmmmm (1) - mcmcsalot
Not Voting (4) - Archetype, Axxle, Jimmmmm, Galzria
With 5 Alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline: 8:40am PST (11:40am forum time [EST]) Thursday January 24, 2013
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I think Archetypes more likely the scum, but it doesn't matter much right?
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Vote: Jimmmmm
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Here goes.
Vote: Jimmm
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I think Archetypes more likely the scum, but it doesn't matter much right?
I agree I don't think jimm is scum but i am going with galz that your town so no it doesn't matter.
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I think Archetypes more likely the scum, but it doesn't matter much right?
I agree I don't think jimm is scum but i am going with galz that your town so no it doesn't matter.
It'll be my fault here if we lose, but Axxle will get a tip of my cap. Sometimes stronger play wins out - and his play from a scum perspective deserves that credit.
But I still think he's town. :P
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Thread locked momentarily for flavour
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Once more the Villagers dragged another to the top of my mountain. Instead of tossing him off (they had not yet cleaned up the remains of Robz), they decided to burn him at the stake. They hastily made a haystack and erected a wooden pole in the middle. mcmcsalot and Axxle bound Jimmmmms hands to the pole while Galzria lit the fire ablaze. The town started to sing the ballad of john and yoko as they watched Jimmmmmm burn. As they did so a witch snagged Galzria up and dropped him off the mountain onto the rocks that Robz had earlier perished on.
Jimmm died on the stake proving that he, like many of the previously deceased was also not a Witch.
Final Day 2 Vote Count
Jimmmmm (3) - mcmcsalot, Axxle, Galzria
Not Voting (2) - Archetype, Jimmmmm
With 5 Alive it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline: 3:20pm PST (6:20pm forum time [EST]) Thursday January 24, 2013
Jimmmmmm has died he was a Villager
Galzria has died he was a Fool
Day 3 Start! Thread Unlocked.
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Vote: Archetype
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Vote Count 3.1:
Archetype (1) - Axxle
Not Voting (2) - Archetype, mcmcsalot
With 3 Alive it takes 2 to lynch.
Deadline: 6:25pm PST (6:20pm forum time [EST]) Thursday January 24, 2013
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Now the question is do I listen to galz, who was infact wrong on jimm
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Eh, if arch is town he should have posted more. Vote: Archetype
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THREAD LOCKED
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Without leaving the top of the mountain Axxle gave mcmc a stick and said here, push Archetype off. Together they pushed Archetype off the mountain. And started singing Here comes the sun. As they did Archetype continued to plummet, making an increasingly dangerous decent to the rocks below. Surely he would bound up soon?
THREAD STILL LOCKED
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Axxle removed a gun from his breast pocket and cocked it. I watched as mcmcs face wrenched in horror, Axxle was a Witch he was sure of it now, he had lost the entire villages children to the scoundrel that stood behind him now.
THREAD STILL LOCKED
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Suddenly Archetype came bounding up in front of them, and Axxle unloaded 2 shots between the eyes of Archetype.
Seems Archetype was the witch after all, and Axxle is just a suspenseful guy.
Town Wins
Thread Unlocked.
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Yay! I can turn my oven off now!
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Yay. Well done Galz and mcmc!
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Mod QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/49/H/XLcBEM7jdEDpS
Spec QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Vyx9msBC8mP
Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Abi6S9rVWH96
There it is your mafia daychat qt full of 20 posts! 4 of them mine!
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Yay!
@Galz: I don't get any cred for being solidly town in lylo?
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And yes I had to troll with how many people were watching the thread
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Yay!
@Galz: I don't get any cred for being solidly town in lylo?
My adamant read on you had me SO freaking nervous, all the way to the end.
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next blitz game you will all feel my fury, sorry for not fighting for you more robz...i should've gone with my gut. I wanted to take you to the end and then jim :(
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Phew!
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Also I wanted to discuss the setup a bit because I actually really enjoyed watching this play out and more than a few things were skipped over that were discussed in the mod qt in particular
So while I do see the value in picking Vig, I'm pretty sure cop is also quite good as is neigbourizer
With Vig,
+Scum probably don't take bulletproof, if you shoot scum thats a HUGE swing for town
+If scum are bulletproof AND you aren't counterclaimed, AND you shoot scum then you lynch them
-A missfire is one of the worst things that can happen to the town.
With Cop
+ You can't accidently kill a townie.
+ If scum aren't cop proof you could find scum
+ You could confirm town
- Scum are probably cop proof so you probably can't trust a 'town' result
With Neighbourizer
+ You can neighbourize the other fool on day 2
+ You are then an IC with the other fool and can pull gambits for all of day 2
- You can't confirm anyone outside the fool subset
- If you both pick neighbourizer then one of you is useless or brings in a random town/scum
- If scum counterclaim you might neighbourize the wrong one.
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WAIT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
THE TROLL IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE
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Love a good end game flip troll
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I actually thought my play this game might have been to similar to my play in MI. Glad no one else thought so.
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The problem with your point on neighborizers, is that you know how I feel about IC "gambits". It's a choice I would never ever take. Quite simply if I know who my partner is then if I want just his advice I'll ask for it and ignore everything else.
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well, galz amazing job we both saved each other I think.
and amazing job to the mods, this was such a fun game to play
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WAIT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
THE TROLL IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE
Bahahaha, I was wondering why you sounded so disappointed.
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The problem with your point on neighborizers, is that you know how I feel about IC "gambits". It's a choice I would never ever take. Quite simply if I know who my partner is then if I want just his advice I'll ask for it and ignore everything else.
YOU may feel that way but I'd remind you of how awesome that game where I was masons with SFS was
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The problem with your point on neighborizers, is that you know how I feel about IC "gambits". It's a choice I would never ever take. Quite simply if I know who my partner is then if I want just his advice I'll ask for it and ignore everything else.
Yea I hate ic gambits
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WAIT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
THE TROLL IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE
Bahahaha, I was wondering why you sounded so disappointed.
Oh yep totally thought I lost, was so defeated.
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This setup originally had 1 Fool and 1 Wise Man. The wise man was allowed to ask the mod any question which he would answer in the thread, if the question pertained to alignment it must include 2 other players. In the end it was a role that made the setup too hard to balance.
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If people like the setup I'll happily run it again or someone else can run it. I feel this setup has a lot of play space where every game will/could be different due to the choices.
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I'm also curious how Drab and Axxle felt with this being their first blitz game (in the case of drab his first forum mafia game?)
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If people like the setup I'll happily run it again or someone else can run it. I feel this setup has a lot of play space where every game will/could be different due to the choices.
yea, wouldn't they have won had eevee taken bullet proof.
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If people like the setup I'll happily run it again or someone else can run it. I feel this setup has a lot of play space where every game will/could be different due to the choices.
yea, wouldn't they have won had eevee taken bullet proof.
Yes
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Another thing I thought about in the mod qt is I THINK it's ideal if town gets 2 different powers.
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I'm also curious how Drab and Axxle felt with this being their first blitz game (in the case of drab his first forum mafia game?)
I liked it, bit too fast for me to consistently keep up with it though.
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Another thing I thought about in the mod qt is I THINK it's ideal if town gets 2 different powers.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because basically what always happening (provided a Fool doesn't get nightkilled nIght 1), is the Fools come out on Day 2. So you want them to have a maximum differential powers at their disposal, I think.
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If people like the setup I'll happily run it again or someone else can run it. I feel this setup has a lot of play space where every game will/could be different due to the choices.
yea, wouldn't they have won had eevee taken bullet proof.
Can't be too sure, I think the lynch choices might have been different. We probably wouldn't have lynched Jimmm, assuming Galz was the NK. But I might have been lynched instead. We still wouldn't have a chance.
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Another thing I thought about in the mod qt is I THINK it's ideal if town gets 2 different powers.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because basically what always happening (provided a Fool doesn't get nightkilled nIght 1), is the Fools come out on Day 2. So you want them to have a maximum differential powers at their disposal, I think.
I mentioned in the Mod QT that I would make neighborizer work on D1, and possibly up the numbers to two possible neighbors.
Makes for more D1 claim shenanigans, plus counters daychat.
Of course, mafia underutilized day chat criminally this game.
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Vig is the exact same thing as cop except cop doesn't kill town, cop can never be more helpful than vig.
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For those curious post count including pre game
Robz - 34
Eevee - 30
mcmcsalot - 48
TheMunch - 30
Archetype - 18
Axxle - 71 (this does not include pre game)
Jimmmmm - 47
Drab Emordnilap - 59
Galzria - 76
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Vig is the exact same thing as cop except cop doesn't kill town, cop can never be more helpful than vig.
False, Vig shooting town is negative utility. Cop getting no result is null.
(Meant to do this instead of modifying your post)
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LALL.
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LALL. Beautiful.
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No worries, Eevee is never scum.
No worries, Eevee is never scum.
To elaborate further, he's just much too nice, and the dice simply refuse to roll it for him.
Townie Vig Galz says both of these in the pre game...shoots scum Eevee during the game.
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LALL indeed
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Vig is the exact same thing as cop except cop doesn't kill town, cop can never be more helpful than vig.
False, Vig shooting town is negative utility. Cop getting no result is null.
Right, vig can be more detrimental than cop but cop can never be more helpful than vig
cop getting a town result means nothing, the witch could be investigate proof and you have to lynch the person anyway. So I would rather shoot town than get a town result on cop actually.
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We won?
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Vig is the exact same thing as cop except cop doesn't kill town, cop can never be more helpful than vig.
False, Vig shooting town is negative utility. Cop getting no result is null.
Right, vig can be more detrimental than cop but cop can never be more helpful than vig
cop getting a town result means nothing, the witch could be investigate proof and you have to lynch the person anyway. So I would rather shoot town than get a town result on cop actually.
So basically you mean high risk/high reward.
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Also I don't understand the NK on Munch, they never changed it after RVS picking him for the kill should a lynch fall
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Vig is the exact same thing as cop except cop doesn't kill town, cop can never be more helpful than vig.
False, Vig shooting town is negative utility. Cop getting no result is null.
Right, vig can be more detrimental than cop but cop can never be more helpful than vig
cop getting a town result means nothing, the witch could be investigate proof and you have to lynch the person anyway. So I would rather shoot town than get a town result on cop actually.
Yeah.
I had honestly not read the full setup at the start of the game, but I took Vig for one big reason:
If I cop scum, I have to spend pages debating who's telling the truth. If I win or if I lose, scum gets a NK as well. Best case is 1 scum, 1 town dead.
If I vig scum, scum dies. Best case? 1 scum dead.
Could I hit town with my shot? Sure. But I'm confident enough to take that risk. And even if I'm wrong (worst case), it's one town dead and I've got IC status going forward. Worst case in the Cop argument is that I get lynched, and then scum gets another NK - so 2 town dead.
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Vig just seemed like no contest to me, even without knowing the setup. Having read the setup, I think that's even more true.
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Okay since the witches power is unconfirmed, here's every situation.
Target is town
Vig = dead town, now you get a more informed lynch
Cop = town result is untrustworthy so you either
A) lynch anyway = town dead, now there's a NK
B) Don't lynch = nothing has happened, still unconfirmed town game goes on.
Target is Scum Bullet proof
Vig = you know its scum lynch them
Cop = you know its scum lynch them
Target is Scum Cop proof
Vig = dead scum
Cop = same as copping town player
Vig is better in all situations
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You're overlooking one scenario (both of you).
If scum pick bulletproof, and your a vig they counterclaim you. and you spend pages arguing about which 2 are lying (or which 1 is)
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You're overlooking one scenario (both of you).
If scum pick bulletproof, and your a vig they counterclaim you. and you spend pages arguing about which 2 are lying (or which 1 is)
No, that's the exact same as copping scum that's bullet proof. And every other situation is an upside for Vig. So what's the point in being a cop there instead? None.
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You could argue that there's some fun stuff to do with the neighborizer (although it's not for me), but the choice between cop and vig is no question.
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Personally for me in this setup I would have picked neighbourizer fully expecting the other fool to pick cop or vig.
I thought the choice between cop/vig would at least be interesting.
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Personally for me in this setup I would have picked neighbourizer fully expecting the other fool to pick cop or vig.
I thought the choice between cop/vig would at least be interesting.
If the Vig shot put the game into night then it would be a much harder decision because all of a sudden the worst case is two town dead - same as copping scum and losing the argument about who's lying.
Also, best case then is also 1 scum 1 town dead - same as copping scum and winning the debate.
I would STILL choose Vig though, since I know that I can trust whatever result I get (even if I don't kill said scum, it becomes exactly like copping scum). If I get a "town" result with cop I'll never know if I can trust it or not. It's like having no PR at all at that point.
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Personally for me in this setup I would have picked neighbourizer fully expecting the other fool to pick cop or vig.
I thought the choice between cop/vig would at least be interesting.
If the Vig shot put the game into night then it would be a much harder decision because all of a sudden the worst case is two town dead - same as copping scum and losing the argument about who's lying.
Also, best case then is also 1 scum 1 town dead - same as copping scum and winning the debate.
I would STILL choose Vig though, since I know that I can trust whatever result I get (even if I don't kill said scum, it becomes exactly like copping scum). If I get a "town" result with cop I'll never know if I can trust it or not. It's like having no PR at all at that point.
It would also add some WIFOM for the two Fools since they wouldn't both want the power. Ideally one would take Vig and the other Cop/Neighborizer - but neither knows what the other would choose.
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What if the roles were assigned randomly?
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What if bulletproof became. "If shot you pick a townie to kill and survive"
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What if bulletproof became. "If shot you pick a townie to kill and survive"
So BP + Vengekill?
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What if bulletproof became. "If shot you pick a townie to kill and survive"
So BP + Vengekill?
Or even like since you die anyways just get vigged and kill the vig.
(Why am I bad at hitting quote right now)
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What if bulletproof became. "If shot you pick a townie to kill and survive"
So BP + Vengekill?
Or even like since you die anyways just get vigged and kill the vig.
(Why am I bad at hitting quote right now)
You could add a conditional vengekill where if you are vigged, you kill the Fool.
Or maybe there's a role that does that? Like a Suicidal Vigilante?
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Well there Is weak Vig but they should only be weak if scum picks "BP"
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Instead of the witches killing at night, they should be able to kill once during the day, to add some unverifiableness to the fool vigs.
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Might make claiming Day 2 more interesting.
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Another thing I thought about in the mod qt is I THINK it's ideal if town gets 2 different powers.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because basically what always happening (provided a Fool doesn't get nightkilled nIght 1), is the Fools come out on Day 2. So you want them to have a maximum differential powers at their disposal, I think.
I disagree. Basically, if you want to vig, you want to vig twice, for parity's sake.
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If I'd've been a fool this game, I probably would have taken Neighbouriser as a clear way of backing up a claim. But I think I thought counter-claiming was a lot more likely than it actually is. I think the way to go is Vig, but I also think the way to go for Witches is Bulletproof, because even if it means you're caught, it causes a loss of pace to Town and less Town-directed kills.
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Gg town, well played!
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Sorry Eevee, I knew you were scum the moment I said this:
Yeah, across 24 (Including Arcana II) games, Eevee has been scum just 3 times. In his first ever game, M-III, and then twice just recently in ZM-IX and Arcana II. And that's it for "normal" games.
He's rolled scum in RMM as well, but that doesn't count.
Moral of the story - treat Eevee like an IC, and just accept the losses when he rolls scum. Losing only 12.5% of your games to a misplaced faith is really not bad, considering most people average out around a 50% win rate. And the rest the time you know you've got a town buddy to rely on!
Even though that was days before the launch of the game.