Topic: Newbie Mafia 9: Grown-up Mafia (Game Over!) (Read 121045 times)

SpaceAnemone · « **on:** November 17, 2016, 06:14:10 pm »

Welcome to Newbie Mafia 9: Grown-up Mafia!

This is a semi-open setup stolen with thanks from silverspawn's set-up in Newbie Mafia 8. It has a lot of potential roles (which are common on this site), but no special rules or interactions, and the randomizing process is simple. If you want to play, make a post saying /in (in this thread). Make sure to skim over the rules (link) and sign our civility pledge (link) first. But if you are completely new to the game, read this (link) first, it is a better explanation of what this is all about. Any additional information which you need should be included in the second post that explains the setup. If you have any questions, ask away. Bolded items in the rules list below have been altered from silverspawn's original or added for NM9.

Mods: SpaceAnemone & Haddock

Player List:
1. LaLight
2. ~~Calamitas~~ Mortgage and Home Maintenance, the Vanilla Townie, lynched D2
3. ~~JaketheBaseballGod22~~ Time Management, the Vanilla Townie, lynched D1
4. Dylan32 (formerly NotTheRealAlec)
5. Joseph2302
6. Roadrunner7671
7. IDontPlayThisGame
8. faust
9. ~~gkrieg13 (formerly McGarnacle)~~ Personal Safety, the Vanilla Townie, killed N1

Tagged: silverspawn, ashersky

Navigation:
D1 Start | D1 End
D2 Start | D2 End

Further Rules:

Game days will last 7 days. Nights will last 1 day.
You may vote: nolynch. If a majority of these votes is reached, a no-lynch will occur.
Night Actions may be submitted and changed up until an hour before the next day starts.
Extreme inactivity or any violation of rules will be dealt with based on my judgment.
Mod posts will be blue-purple. Similar formatting should be avoided by players.
After a succession of No-Kill -> No-Lynch -> No-Kill -> No-Lynch, mafia must attempt a kill.
After a succession of No-Lynch -> No-Kill -> No-Lynch -> No-Kill, town must lynch, or a player will be lynched at random.
Players may not quote anything from the game elsewhere while the game is still ongoing. "The game" means this thread, all related PMs, and the Mafia QT.
Players must not communicate about or even mention the game to each other in real life, even if they know they're on the same team.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:23:09 pm »

The Setup

This game consists of 9 players:
5 Town players without a Role (Vanilla Townies)
1 Mafia player without Role (Mafia Goon)

Plus, 2 Town Power Roles and 1 Mafia Power Role which are not known pre-game. For this, a number between 1 and 12 is being randomized. The Role that is at that position on a standard clock face, plus its two neighbours, are included. Mafia will be informed which roles those are.

01 - Watcher
02 - Jailkeeper
03 - 1-Shot Strongman
04 - Babysitter
05 - Doctor
06 - Rolecop
07 - Weak Visitor
08 - Tracker
09 - 2-Shot Investigation Immune
10 - Vanilla Cop
11 - Motion Detector
12 - Roleblocker

Example:
If 12 is randomized, the roles at 11 (Motion Detector), 12 (Roleblocker), and 1 (Watcher) are being chosen. Red Roles are Mafia-Aligned, Green Roles are Town-Aligned.

Explanation of Roles:
The following Roles are active, targeted, and work at Night. This means, if you are one of them, then at night, you may target a player, and depending on which Role you have, something happens. None of the roles are compulsive, so you can always choose not to use them. Let us assume you do use them and target Haddock. If you are a

Tracker: you follow Haddock around that night, learn whom he targeted with his role (if any). You will receive a PM telling you a list of names at the start of the following day.

Doctor: you put Haddock in a hospital bed that night, thus (somehow) protecting him from murderers, and you thought a bunker would be better for that! If mafia tries to kill him that night, nothing happens.

Watcher: you climb into a tree next to Haddock's house that night, keeping a close look on the entrance, thus learning who targeted him that night. You will receive a PM telling you a list of names at the start of the following day.

Vanilla Cop: you perform some tests on Haddock, learning whether he is a Vanilla Townie (a town player without Role). You will receive a PM telling you "Haddock is a Vanilla Townie" or "Haddock is not a Vanilla Townie" at the start of the following day.

Babysitter: you transform Haddock into a Baby for the night, protecting him but also binding his fate on yours. If Mafia tries to kill him, nothing happens. But if mafia kills you, both you and Haddock die.

Weak Visitor: you freely walk towards Haddock, politely asking him if you could sleep at his house for the night. If Haddock is Mafia-Aligned, you will die, else nothing happens.

Motion Detector: you lay out a highly advanced field of laser-sensors across Haddock's home that night, telling you whether there was motion (he targeted someone, someone targeted him, or both) or no motion. You will receive a PM telling you "Motion detected" or "No Motion detected" at the start of the following day.

Roleblocker: you put up a network of invisible webs around Haddock's home that night, stopping any action he performs without him knowing. If Haddock tries to perform any action, nothing happens. This will cause Vanilla Cop and Motion Detector to get a special PM stating "No Result".

Jailkeeper: you put Haddock into prison for the night, taking away his freedom but also protecting him. If Mafia tries to kill him, nothing happens, and if Haddock tries to perform any action, nothing happens. Thus, this action is a combination of Doctor and Roleblocker.

Rolecop: You sneak into Haddock's home to steal some DNA, performing tests on it that tell you exactly which role he is born as. You will receive a PM saying "No Role" (if he is a Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon), or the name of any of the above or below if he is that Role.

The last two roles are not targeted. That means you simply choose to activate them, still at night, without specifying on whom.

Strongman: You enter god-mode for the night, breaking through every role that would interfere with what you choose to do. If you want to kill Haddock but he is being doctored, he still dies.

Investigation Immune: You put up a clever disguise, causing all investigative actions on you to fail. You will appear as "Vanilla Townie" to the Vanilla Cop, you will return "No Motion" to the Motion Detector, and will not be seen by either Tracker of Watcher. (Interaction with other roles isn't specified because they can't appear together in this setup).

Mafia's Night-Kill is treated as an action for this purpose. For example, if Haddock kills ashersky and you track him, you learn that Haddock targeted ashersky. If Haddock tries to kill ashersky and you put Haddock in jail, then the kill fails and ashersky lives, etc.

X-Shot before a role means that you can only use it X times. Thus, if you are 2-Shot Investigation Immune, you can only trigger your immunity twice during the game.

Silverspawn deserves all the credit for making this setup post :-)
Note that the order of the roles has been updated slightly, at his suggestion, from the ordering used in NM8. In particular, Watcher and Weak Visitor have been swapped.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:23:22 pm »

Flavour Post

"Oops!" exclaimed Space, noticing that they'd forgotten to write the opening flavour text for their Newbie Mafia game. Argh! There were just too many things to keep remembering, with responsibilities mounting on all sides, and sometimes little bits and pieces fell by the wayside. In fact, that seemed to be happening more and more these days...

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:29:37 pm »

Sorry, Calamitas! You inned before I was quite ready. Will you forgive me if I get a moderator to delete your "/in" post just to keep the start of the start of the thread tidy?

Calamitas · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:30:08 pm »

All fine ;-)

Haddock · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:31:46 pm »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:29:37 pm

Sorry, Calamitas! You inned before I was quite ready. Will you forgive me if I get a moderator to delete your "/in" post just to keep the start of the start of the thread tidy?

Since you started the thread, shouldn't you be able to do that?

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:42:00 pm »

I guess I'll /in and show give these newbies so help

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:44:23 pm »

Quote from: Haddock on November 17, 2016, 06:31:46 pm

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:29:37 pm
Sorry, Calamitas! You inned before I was quite ready. Will you forgive me if I get a moderator to delete your "/in" post just to keep the start of the start of the thread tidy?
Since you started the thread, shouldn't you be able to do that?

I would have thought so, but I only see a "remove" option on my own posts.

Calamitas · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2016, 06:51:52 pm »

Setup question:
Is town forced to lynch in a "No kill - no lynch - no kill" scenario or just scum after another "no lynch"?

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2016, 07:08:10 pm »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:44:23 pm

Quote from: Haddock on November 17, 2016, 06:31:46 pm
Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:29:37 pm
Sorry, Calamitas! You inned before I was quite ready. Will you forgive me if I get a moderator to delete your "/in" post just to keep the start of the start of the thread tidy?
Since you started the thread, shouldn't you be able to do that?

I would have thought so, but I only see a "remove" option on my own posts.

They are the same thing. But done.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2016, 07:22:36 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 17, 2016, 07:08:10 pm

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:44:23 pm
Quote from: Haddock on November 17, 2016, 06:31:46 pm
Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:29:37 pm
Sorry, Calamitas! You inned before I was quite ready. Will you forgive me if I get a moderator to delete your "/in" post just to keep the start of the start of the thread tidy?
Since you started the thread, shouldn't you be able to do that?

I would have thought so, but I only see a "remove" option on my own posts.

They are the same thing. But done.

Thank you for removing it! :-)

I don't quite follow what you mean by them being the same thing: I can see "remove" as an option for my own posts, but not those created by anyone else, so I couldn't remove Calamiatas's one.

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2016, 07:22:54 pm »

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2016, 07:23:22 pm »

Quote from: Calamitas on November 17, 2016, 06:51:52 pm

Setup question:
Is town forced to lynch in a "No kill - no lynch - no kill" scenario or just scum after another "no lynch"?

Haddock and I have discussed this and decided to change silver's rules entirely :-) This is now reflected in the opening post.

McGarnacle · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2016, 08:14:22 pm »

NotTheRealAlec · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2016, 10:04:26 pm »

Quote from: JaketheBaseballGod22 on November 17, 2016, 06:42:00 pm

I guess I'll /in and show give these newbies so help

/in

Calamitas · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2016, 09:54:30 am »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 07:23:22 pm

Quote from: Calamitas on November 17, 2016, 06:51:52 pm
Setup question:
Is town forced to lynch in a "No kill - no lynch - no kill" scenario or just scum after another "no lynch"?

Haddock and I have discussed this and decided to change silver's rules entirely :-) This is now reflected in the opening post.

Okay perfect, like that one more :-)

pingpongsam · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2016, 09:55:18 am »

I experienced PTSD when I saw that setup diagram.

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:15:26 am »

Yeah no offense but that diagram sucked and made we dizzy when trying to read it.

Haddock · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:17:27 am »

Folks. The setup diagram is fine. It's a clock, seriously. If it's that awful, read the text instead.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 am »

Quote from: JaketheBaseballGod22 on November 18, 2016, 10:15:26 am

Yeah no offense but that diagram sucked and made we dizzy when trying to read it.

The PTSD is from PPS having just lost a game from not understanding the setup of this setup. The diagram itself is fine I think.

Just a word of advice. Don't tell someone something sucked just because you can.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:18:48 am »

Quote from: JaketheBaseballGod22 on November 18, 2016, 10:15:26 am

Yeah no offense but that diagram sucked and made we dizzy when trying to read it.

It's silver's diagram, and I think it's great! I need to update it though, because he's suggesting swapping items 1 and 7 to balance the game better, and I think it's a good idea, but I don't have time right now to make a new graphic.

If it makes you guys happier, I'll take the image out for now and just update the text :-P

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #21 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:23:59 am »

The set-up post has been updated.

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:35:57 am »

When i viewed it it was actually spinning which made me dizzy that's i menat

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:36:10 am »

Darn it. People could've just not looked at the diagram. Now I'm having problems.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #24 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:41:54 am »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on November 18, 2016, 10:36:10 am

Darn it. People could've just not looked at the diagram. Now I'm having problems.

If you have time to edit Silver's one from NM8 so that items 1 and 7 are swapped over, that would be awesome... otherwise I just don't have time just now :-( It's not even that difficult an edit because the two are at 180 degrees to one another, so a simple image rotate and some copy-pasting between versions would be enough.

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:43:27 am »

So that picture is blocked at school...

silverspawn · « **Reply #26 on:** November 18, 2016, 10:58:56 am »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 07:22:36 pm

Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 17, 2016, 07:08:10 pm
Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:44:23 pm
Quote from: Haddock on November 17, 2016, 06:31:46 pm
Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 17, 2016, 06:29:37 pm
Sorry, Calamitas! You inned before I was quite ready. Will you forgive me if I get a moderator to delete your "/in" post just to keep the start of the start of the thread tidy?
Since you started the thread, shouldn't you be able to do that?

I would have thought so, but I only see a "remove" option on my own posts.

They are the same thing. But done.

Thank you for removing it! :-)

I don't quite follow what you mean by them being the same thing: I can see "remove" as an option for my own posts, but not those created by anyone else, so I couldn't remove Calamiatas's one.

You can only delete other posts once you moved the thread into the Mafia area I think

also /tag

pingpongsam · « **Reply #27 on:** November 18, 2016, 11:32:10 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 am

Quote from: JaketheBaseballGod22 on November 18, 2016, 10:15:26 am
Yeah no offense but that diagram sucked and made we dizzy when trying to read it.

The PTSD is from PPS having just lost a game from not understanding the setup of this setup. The diagram itself is fine I think.

Just a word of advice. Don't tell someone something sucked just because you can.

To be fair, I didn't lose. SA still pulled through for us (and I contend I still played well enough prior to slip that they could still eke out a win).

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 18, 2016, 11:34:47 am »

Quote from: pingpongsam on November 18, 2016, 11:32:10 am

Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 am
Quote from: JaketheBaseballGod22 on November 18, 2016, 10:15:26 am
Yeah no offense but that diagram sucked and made we dizzy when trying to read it.

The PTSD is from PPS having just lost a game from not understanding the setup of this setup. The diagram itself is fine I think.

Just a word of advice. Don't tell someone something sucked just because you can.

To be fair, I didn't lose. SA still pulled through for us (and I contend I still played well enough prior to slip that they could still eke out a win).

True. I guess lose wasn't the best word. Maybe that you scum slipped because you didn't understand the setup?

pingpongsam · « **Reply #29 on:** November 18, 2016, 11:53:08 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 18, 2016, 11:34:47 am

Quote from: pingpongsam on November 18, 2016, 11:32:10 am
Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 18, 2016, 10:17:52 am
Quote from: JaketheBaseballGod22 on November 18, 2016, 10:15:26 am
Yeah no offense but that diagram sucked and made we dizzy when trying to read it.

The PTSD is from PPS having just lost a game from not understanding the setup of this setup. The diagram itself is fine I think.

Just a word of advice. Don't tell someone something sucked just because you can.

To be fair, I didn't lose. SA still pulled through for us (and I contend I still played well enough prior to slip that they could still eke out a win).

True. I guess lose wasn't the best word. Maybe that you scum slipped because you didn't understand the setup?

Yeah, I'm never reading a setup again, lol.

ashersky · « **Reply #30 on:** November 18, 2016, 03:35:15 pm »

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 18, 2016, 06:53:14 pm »

/In for one of the non-newbie spots. Feel free to kick me out if lots of newbies want to play.

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #32 on:** November 18, 2016, 06:56:46 pm »

Also it's my first Newbie Mafia game, amusingly.

LaLight · « **Reply #33 on:** November 22, 2016, 03:16:09 am »

4 spots, come on, people!

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 22, 2016, 07:52:09 am »

faust · « **Reply #35 on:** November 22, 2016, 10:29:53 am »

I mean, I'd join, but... there should be more than 1 newbie in Newbie mafia.

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #36 on:** November 22, 2016, 10:31:00 am »

I feel like Newbie games are always made just a bit too late.

LaLight · « **Reply #37 on:** November 22, 2016, 10:33:49 am »

Quote from: faust on November 22, 2016, 10:29:53 am

I mean, I'd join, but... there should be more than 1 newbie in Newbie mafia.

there was another RR's friend, who disappeared..

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #38 on:** November 22, 2016, 10:41:05 am »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on November 22, 2016, 10:31:00 am

I feel like Newbie games are always made just a bit too late.

Well, they're a reaction to the presence of newbies. If people who're inviting lots of newbies over want to set up a game in advance of their friends joining, that would be a really clever way of getting ahead of the curve ;-)

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #39 on:** November 22, 2016, 10:49:13 am »

Quote from: faust on November 22, 2016, 10:29:53 am

I mean, I'd join, but... there should be more than 1 newbie in Newbie mafia.

I thought we were going to have RR, Jake, plus two more of their 14yo cohort all joining RMM38, and this seemed like a better venue for them to get used to playing with each other.

@McGarnacle, you're still relatively new.. want to join instead of tagging? Maybe you'll be lucky and draw scum this time, though obviously I'm keeping it all entirely random!

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #40 on:** November 22, 2016, 11:03:32 am »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 22, 2016, 10:49:13 am

Quote from: faust on November 22, 2016, 10:29:53 am
I mean, I'd join, but... there should be more than 1 newbie in Newbie mafia.

I thought we were going to have RR, Jake, plus two more of their 14yo cohort all joining RMM38, and this seemed like a better venue for them to get used to playing with each other.

@McGarnacle, you're still relatively new.. want to join instead of tagging? Maybe you'll be lucky and draw scum this time, though obviously I'm keeping it all entirely random!

I'm still gonna do RMM 38 though because I have a few games under my belt already

McGarnacle · « **Reply #41 on:** November 22, 2016, 11:55:04 am »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 22, 2016, 10:49:13 am

Quote from: faust on November 22, 2016, 10:29:53 am
I mean, I'd join, but... there should be more than 1 newbie in Newbie mafia.

I thought we were going to have RR, Jake, plus two more of their 14yo cohort all joining RMM38, and this seemed like a better venue for them to get used to playing with each other.

@McGarnacle, you're still relatively new.. want to join instead of tagging? Maybe you'll be lucky and draw scum this time, though obviously I'm keeping it all entirely random!

I'm going away over Thanksgiving, and I will have limited internet access. But if it doesn't fill up by this Sunday, I would be happy to join.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #42 on:** November 23, 2016, 11:42:37 am »

LaLight · « **Reply #43 on:** November 23, 2016, 11:50:12 am »

+1 newbie!

faust · « **Reply #44 on:** November 23, 2016, 12:31:34 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on November 23, 2016, 11:50:12 am

+1 newbie!

ish.

LaLight · « **Reply #45 on:** November 23, 2016, 12:32:26 pm »

Quote from: faust on November 23, 2016, 12:31:34 pm

Quote from: LaLight on November 23, 2016, 11:50:12 am
+1 newbie!
ish.

No finished games though

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2016, 12:48:16 pm »

I get the impression that lots of the US people are going to be away for the next few days, so it might be that we can keep the last two slots for McGarnacle and Faust and then have a complete set to begin on about Monday :-)

LaLight · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2016, 12:50:39 pm »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 23, 2016, 12:48:16 pm

I get the impression that lots of the US people are going to be away for the next few days, so it might be that we can keep the last two slots for McGarnacle and Faust and then have a complete set to begin on about Monday :-)

Also, JReggie will be here

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2016, 12:54:36 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on November 23, 2016, 12:50:39 pm

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 23, 2016, 12:48:16 pm
I get the impression that lots of the US people are going to be away for the next few days, so it might be that we can keep the last two slots for McGarnacle and Faust and then have a complete set to begin on about Monday :-)

Also, JReggie will be here

True, though wasn't it RMM38 he'd expressed an interest in joining, rather than this game?

LaLight · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2016, 12:56:30 pm »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 23, 2016, 12:54:36 pm

Quote from: LaLight on November 23, 2016, 12:50:39 pm
Quote from: SpaceAnemone on November 23, 2016, 12:48:16 pm
I get the impression that lots of the US people are going to be away for the next few days, so it might be that we can keep the last two slots for McGarnacle and Faust and then have a complete set to begin on about Monday :-)

Also, JReggie will be here

True, though wasn't it RMM38 he'd expressed an interest in joining, rather than this game?

I think he didn't know about this one then

LaLight · « **Reply #50 on:** November 23, 2016, 01:33:49 pm »

Also i texted Dylan as an almost-newbie.

faust · « **Reply #51 on:** November 28, 2016, 10:28:08 am »

Well, /in.

I need a game.

McGarnacle · « **Reply #52 on:** November 28, 2016, 10:35:42 am »

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #53 on:** November 28, 2016, 10:36:03 am »

Ayyyy

LaLight · « **Reply #54 on:** November 28, 2016, 10:36:19 am »

cool.

coolcoolcool.

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #55 on:** November 28, 2016, 10:38:06 am »

Noice

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #56 on:** November 28, 2016, 10:46:40 am »

Hurrah, we're full!! :-)

I'm hoping to get the PMs out by midnight tonight UK time...

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #57 on:** November 28, 2016, 07:28:03 pm »

PMs are out!
Please check your messages and confirm your roles in your QTs.

This thread is locked except for /tags.

Night 0 will start as soon as everyone has confirmed, and will run for ~36 hours.

McGarnacle · « **Reply #58 on:** November 28, 2016, 10:56:48 pm »

Due to unforseen circumstances, I will not have forum access for about 2 weeks. Please sign me out of any game I'm in. Sorry for the inconvenience.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #59 on:** November 28, 2016, 11:03:35 pm »

I can sub if you need me to.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #60 on:** November 29, 2016, 06:23:48 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 28, 2016, 11:03:35 pm

I can sub if you need me to.

Yes please! I'll send you to McGarnacle's QT. Thank you!

@McGarnacle: I hope things are okay! LMK when you're back and you can have the speccy link :-)

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #61 on:** November 29, 2016, 10:50:59 am »

Night 0 starts now and ends at 2pm forum time on Wednesday 30th November.

Thread locked!

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #62 on:** November 30, 2016, 02:01:28 pm »

Grown-up Mafia

"Hey Haddock!" said Space, ushering their friend in from the cold. "The kettle just boiled... tea?"

"Always", replied Haddock, divesting himself of his cycling gear while Space busied themself in the kitchen.

By the time Space returned with two giant mugs, Haddock was eyeing the clutter on Space's coffee table with increasing worry: haphazard stacks of bills and tax paperwork, and a lot of lists in Space's almost-illegible multi-coloured scrawl, with headings like "Unavoidable Social Obligations" and "House Stuff to Fix". There were browser tabs open on the laptop covering a range of topics from interpersonal relationships to managing career goals and expectations. The mess even extended onto the floor and sofa, so there wasn't really anywhere polite to look away to.

"So... how's it going?" he broached.

"I think I'm getting on top of a couple more things again now.. there's a list over there of the main pressure points." They waved a hand at the far corner of the table. "Most of the time, people seem to think I'm pretty sorted, but all this adulthood stuff is just a bit too hard sometimes". A cuppa and a chat would be just the ticket, as long as it didn't eat too much into life-fixing time.

Haddock realised his friend might be over-thinking things somewhat, as was their habit. "Why don't we play a game?" he offered, gesturing to the extensive collection balanced along the top of Space's bookcases. He knew there were Dominion cards up there somewhere.

"That would be good, I guess, but I'm not sure..." they trailed off. Fun and Games might not be the most productive way of spending an afternoon with all of this grown-up stuff hanging over their head.

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (9): LaLight, Calamitas, JaketheBaseballGod22, NotTheRealAlec, Joseph2302, Roadrunner7671, IDontPlayThisGame, faust, gkrieg13,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

Thread Unlocked!

LaLight · « **Reply #63 on:** November 30, 2016, 02:03:30 pm »

Flavor is sad but I like it

)

Vote: Joseph2032 good to see you back fella!

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #64 on:** November 30, 2016, 02:39:56 pm »

Is that supposed to be flavor or my life's story?

vote: LaLight because friendship is magic

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #65 on:** November 30, 2016, 02:46:59 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on November 30, 2016, 02:03:30 pm

Flavor is sad but I like it )

Vote: Joseph2032 good to see you back fella!

I always knew I'd return to mafia some point.

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #66 on:** November 30, 2016, 02:47:48 pm »

Also, welcome newbies!

Vote: JaketheBaseballGod22
Vote: NotTheRealAlec
IDontPlayThisGame

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #67 on:** November 30, 2016, 02:48:11 pm »

That should be Vote: IDontPlayThisGame

Calamitas · « **Reply #68 on:** November 30, 2016, 03:40:01 pm »

joseph Town joseph would have self-voted already!

Calamitas · « **Reply #69 on:** November 30, 2016, 03:40:36 pm »

Vote: joseph Town joseph would have self-voted already!
*fixed

faust · « **Reply #70 on:** November 30, 2016, 03:55:27 pm »

I kinda want to hang out with you guys.

LaLight · « **Reply #71 on:** November 30, 2016, 03:56:58 pm »

Quote from: faust on November 30, 2016, 03:55:27 pm

I kinda want to hang out with you guys.

oh nice, have you taken some drinks?

LaLight · « **Reply #72 on:** November 30, 2016, 04:11:09 pm »

okay, let's try to build some conversation.

Everyone, answer the following:

1) What is your favorite alignment? (the one you want to be most)
2) What role do you want to be?
3) Being VT is good/bad? Interesting/uninteresting? What would you do if you're VT?

I'll be the first

1) I do love to be scum, though I was one only the one time

2) I want to be a Jailkeeper, that's interesting role, cause you can Jail either scum or town
3) VT is cool. At first it seems boring, but then you realize you have nothing to fear and less responsibility and sincerely try to find scum.

Calamitas · « **Reply #73 on:** November 30, 2016, 04:14:48 pm »

1) Clearly scum here for obvious reasons: D
2/3) Roles aren't that important for me, playing town/scum feels similar to me, whether pr or not.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #74 on:** November 30, 2016, 04:38:48 pm »

1) I think at this point in my career, I would much rather be town. Scum can take more work/not be as enjoyable. I feel like I am pretty good as either scum or town, but I don't usually die early, which makes me a better scum in my opinion.

2) I think I would want to be some cool RMM role that is crucial to the survival of town.

3) VT and PR are very different, but at this point, I think I would rather just be a VT. Of course, my not ever really dying D1 or D2 means that I'm probably better as a PR.

oh and vote: WW. That guy is still scum

NotTheRealAlec · « **Reply #75 on:** November 30, 2016, 05:57:24 pm »

Vote:jakethebaseballgod22

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #76 on:** November 30, 2016, 06:27:20 pm »

Quote from: NotTheRealAlec on November 30, 2016, 05:57:24 pm

Vote:jakethebaseballgod22

What was that? I couldn't hear you.

1) Chaotic Neutral
2) Face
3) Uninteresting because I can't cast spells

But for mafia answers,
1) SK. It seems fun
2) Vanilla SK
3) I think VT is the most interesting role to be. You have absolutely nothing going for you. No information, no abilities, just whatever you can muster with words and no actions.

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #77 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:42:36 am »

I'm skipping RVS I guess

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #78 on:** December 01, 2016, 01:16:01 am »

You could play along and answer LaLight though

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #79 on:** December 01, 2016, 01:44:20 am »

Quote from: LaLight on November 30, 2016, 04:11:09 pm

okay, let's try to build some conversation.

Everyone, answer the following:

1) What is your favorite alignment? (the one you want to be most)
2) What role do you want to be?
3) Being VT is good/bad? Interesting/uninteresting? What would you do if you're VT?

I'll be the first

1) I do love to be scum, though I was one only the one time
2) I want to be a Jailkeeper, that's interesting role, cause you can Jail either scum or town
3) VT is cool. At first it seems boring, but then you realize you have nothing to fear and less responsibility and sincerely try to find scum.

(1) and (2). Serial killer, because you try and kill everyone.
(3) VT is fine, and it leaves the responsibility with competent people

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #80 on:** December 01, 2016, 01:45:20 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on November 30, 2016, 04:38:48 pm

1) I think at this point in my career, I would much rather be town. Scum can take more work/not be as enjoyable. I feel like I am pretty good as either scum or town, but I don't usually die early, which makes me a better scum in my opinion.

2) I think I would want to be some cool RMM role that is crucial to the survival of town.

3) VT and PR are very different, but at this point, I think I would rather just be a VT. Of course, my not ever really dying D1 or D2 means that I'm probably better as a PR.

oh and vote: WW. That guy is still scum

We can kill you D1 or D2 if you like?

faust · « **Reply #81 on:** December 01, 2016, 02:10:14 am »

Quote from: LaLight on November 30, 2016, 03:56:58 pm

Quote from: faust on November 30, 2016, 03:55:27 pm
I kinda want to hang out with you guys.

oh nice, have you taken some drinks?

What, no. Why would you even think that? And in front of minors? Ts, ts.

Also, I only meant Spacey and Haddock

faust · « **Reply #82 on:** December 01, 2016, 02:13:51 am »

Quote from: LaLight on November 30, 2016, 04:11:09 pm

1) What is your favorite alignment? (the one you want to be most)
2) What role do you want to be?
3) Being VT is good/bad? Interesting/uninteresting? What would you do if you're VT?

1) Tentatively scum. Though more than one scum game in a row gets exhausting.
2) Deathproof Cop Vigilante?
3) Being VT is okay. Less pressure. Still interesting; sometimes even more so. The crowning achievement of a VT play is to get nightkilled N1.

faust · « **Reply #83 on:** December 01, 2016, 02:18:02 am »

Quote from: NotTheRealAlec on November 30, 2016, 05:57:24 pm

Vote:jakethebaseballgod22

Hi, welcome to the game! (You're the only real newbie, right?)

First, in order to vote, you should bold your request, like this Vote: JakeTheBaseballGod22. Some mods require a space between : and the name.

Second, why don't you tell us a little something about yourself? Prior mafia experience, your alignment, your favorite pet name?

LaLight · « **Reply #84 on:** December 01, 2016, 02:39:59 am »

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 02:10:14 am

Quote from: LaLight on November 30, 2016, 03:56:58 pm
Quote from: faust on November 30, 2016, 03:55:27 pm
I kinda want to hang out with you guys.

oh nice, have you taken some drinks?

What, no. Why would you even think that? And in front of minors? Ts, ts.

Nothing more than Ginger Lemonade and Hot N/A Gluehwein

Haddock · « **Reply #85 on:** December 01, 2016, 05:29:54 am »

Vote Count 1.1

Joseph (2): LaLight, Calamitas
LaLight (1): IDon'tPlayThisGame
IDon'tPlayThisGame (1): Joseph
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): faust

Not Voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, NotTheRealAlec, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #86 on:** December 01, 2016, 11:52:58 am »

Quote from: Haddock on December 01, 2016, 05:29:54 am

Vote Count 1.1

Joseph (2): LaLight, Calamitas
LaLight (1): IDon'tPlayThisGame
IDon'tPlayThisGame (1): Joseph
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): faust

Not Voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, NotTheRealAlec, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

If the game is small enough, has anyone gotten lynched during RVS? Like, people accidentally sent too many votes that person's way?

LaLight · « **Reply #87 on:** December 01, 2016, 11:55:35 am »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 01, 2016, 11:52:58 am

Quote from: Haddock on December 01, 2016, 05:29:54 am
Vote Count 1.1

Joseph (2): LaLight, Calamitas
LaLight (1): IDon'tPlayThisGame
IDon'tPlayThisGame (1): Joseph
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): faust

Not Voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, NotTheRealAlec, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

If the game is small enough, has anyone gotten lynched during RVS? Like, people accidentally sent too many votes that person's way?

I don't know such games though i've read one where Seprix was secret doublevoter, so everyone thought it was l-1 and the guy was suddenly lynched

faust · « **Reply #88 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:01:07 pm »

Wow it's dead silent in here.

Let's talk setup for a bit. As far as I can see, there are no viable fakeclaims for scum. This means any claimed PR is either IC'd (this means that they are confirmed town) or counterclaimed (i.e. somebody else claims the role, or a role that cannot coexist with the claimed one).

This means that anyone who claims immediately basically changes their role from whatever they had to Innocent Child. Some roles I think are so weak that this tradeoff is good.

Weak Visitor is a role that offers information only at a great cost, i.e. dying. It also can appear together with Investigation Immune. That interaction is actually not clarified in the setup post. So What happens if a Weak Visitor targets someone who is investigation immune?

Anyway I think the cost is not worth it, and the Weak Visitors should claim.

The Motion Detector is similarly weak. The problem is that their results are ambiguous, and they might even out the other PR. So for claiming here.

Both also have the advantage that they always appear together with stronger roles, so the mafia will have to choose whether to let the other PR live longer or to keep an IC around.

I'm on the fence about Babysitter. I think claiming may be good because targeting them for a kill is dangerous for the mafia. But things are risky there.

Other opinions?

PPE: 2 (meaning 2 posts since I started typing this)

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #89 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:16:53 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 12:01:07 pm

Wow it's dead silent in here.

Let's talk setup for a bit. As far as I can see, there are no viable fakeclaims for scum. This means any claimed PR is either IC'd (this means that they are confirmed town) or counterclaimed (i.e. somebody else claims the role, or a role that cannot coexist with the claimed one).

This means that anyone who claims immediately basically changes their role from whatever they had to Innocent Child. Some roles I think are so weak that this tradeoff is good.

Weak Visitor is a role that offers information only at a great cost, i.e. dying. It also can appear together with Investigation Immune. That interaction is actually not clarified in the setup post. So What happens if a Weak Visitor targets someone who is investigation immune?

Anyway I think the cost is not worth it, and the Weak Visitors should claim.

The Motion Detector is similarly weak. The problem is that their results are ambiguous, and they might even out the other PR. So for claiming here.

Both also have the advantage that they always appear together with stronger roles, so the mafia will have to choose whether to let the other PR live longer or to keep an IC around.

I'm on the fence about Babysitter. I think claiming may be good because targeting them for a kill is dangerous for the mafia. But things are risky there.

Other opinions?

PPE: 2 (meaning 2 posts since I started typing this)

This is interesting. I hadn't actually looked in depth at the setup post yet because I had never played a game of this setup, and didn't read it before signing up because I subbed in at the last second. I think that the setup is kind of swingy. There are certain setups that are much better for town, like the one with Watcher/JK/RB. But then there are other setups that seem very scum favored like Doctor/weak visitor/Role cop.

Anyway, for the things that faust was actually talking about. I could see the value in the weak visitor claiming. They have to preclaim who they are going to target at night anyway right? Otherwise it doesn't really give us that much information.

Motion Detector isn't super weak in this setup, because you will have at most 6 people with motion. Ok, maybe that is actually terrible. Claim would be there.

Babysitter I don't think should claim. If they are a newb, I would definitely kill them N1, because I would have confidence that they were targeting scum and that you could get a free kill (the person they were targeting). So I think they should stay quiet, or if they do ever claim, they need to be quiet about their reads.

LaLight · « **Reply #90 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:24:41 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 01, 2016, 12:16:53 pm

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 12:01:07 pm
Wow it's dead silent in here.

Let's talk setup for a bit. As far as I can see, there are no viable fakeclaims for scum. This means any claimed PR is either IC'd (this means that they are confirmed town) or counterclaimed (i.e. somebody else claims the role, or a role that cannot coexist with the claimed one).

This means that anyone who claims immediately basically changes their role from whatever they had to Innocent Child. Some roles I think are so weak that this tradeoff is good.

Weak Visitor is a role that offers information only at a great cost, i.e. dying. It also can appear together with Investigation Immune. That interaction is actually not clarified in the setup post. So What happens if a Weak Visitor targets someone who is investigation immune?

Anyway I think the cost is not worth it, and the Weak Visitors should claim.

The Motion Detector is similarly weak. The problem is that their results are ambiguous, and they might even out the other PR. So for claiming here.

Both also have the advantage that they always appear together with stronger roles, so the mafia will have to choose whether to let the other PR live longer or to keep an IC around.

I'm on the fence about Babysitter. I think claiming may be good because targeting them for a kill is dangerous for the mafia. But things are risky there.

Other opinions?

PPE: 2 (meaning 2 posts since I started typing this)

This is interesting. I hadn't actually looked in depth at the setup post yet because I had never played a game of this setup, and didn't read it before signing up because I subbed in at the last second. I think that the setup is kind of swingy. There are certain setups that are much better for town, like the one with Watcher/JK/RB. But then there are other setups that seem very scum favored like Doctor/weak visitor/Role cop.

Anyway, for the things that faust was actually talking about. I could see the value in the weak visitor claiming. They have to preclaim who they are going to target at night anyway right? Otherwise it doesn't really give us that much information.

Motion Detector isn't super weak in this setup, because you will have at most 6 people with motion. Ok, maybe that is actually terrible. Claim would be there.

Babysitter I don't think should claim. If they are a newb, I would definitely kill them N1, because I would have confidence that they were targeting scum and that you could get a free kill (the person they were targeting). So I think they should stay quiet, or if they do ever claim, they need to be quiet about their reads.

Incredible. I wrote a big post regarding faust's one, then my phone deleted it, i got angry and saw, that you answered with the same words i had. If there's babysitter, don't claim!

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #91 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:25:43 pm »

Do we really want to start claiming this early on D1? I think it's a bit premature. We still haven't gotten real posts from people.

PPE: 1

LaLight · « **Reply #92 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:34:05 pm »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 01, 2016, 12:25:43 pm

Do we really want to start claiming this early on D1? I think it's a bit premature. We still haven't gotten real posts from people.

PPE: 1

there are some roles mentioned above who would serve better as Innocent Children (Confirmed town) than their actual roles.

LaLight · « **Reply #93 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:49:15 pm »

so, having 5 mins of free time I want to do a list of players experience from vet to newb.

1,2) Faust/Gkrieg
3) Roadrunner
4) Joseph
5) Calamitas
6,7) Me/Jake

IDPTG
9) NotTheRealAlec

Okay, so, actually, we have a not vet-aligned nor news-aligned game. This is good.
AFAIK, RR and Jake are VLA (possibly Alec with them) so this game won't be so active (we need to wait for them either way).

faust · « **Reply #94 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:56:50 pm »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 01, 2016, 12:25:43 pm

Do we really want to start claiming this early on D1? I think it's a bit premature. We still haven't gotten real posts from people.

PPE: 1

Well, if you can put forward reasons against it, I'm happy to read them.

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #95 on:** December 01, 2016, 01:36:16 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 12:49:15 pm

so, having 5 mins of free time I want to do a list of players experience from vet to newb.

1,2) Faust/Gkrieg
3) Roadrunner
4) Joseph
5) Calamitas
6,7) Me/Jake
IDPTG
9) NotTheRealAlec

Okay, so, actually, we have a not vet-aligned nor news-aligned game. This is good.
AFAIK, RR and Jake are VLA (possibly Alec with them) so this game won't be so active (we need to wait for them either way).

I'd put myself at 3) on this list, and RR at 4. I've been playing for 2 years on here.

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #96 on:** December 01, 2016, 01:37:30 pm »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 01, 2016, 12:25:43 pm

Do we really want to start claiming this early on D1? I think it's a bit premature. We still haven't gotten real posts from people.

PPE: 1

Depends on the board.

Although seriously, it depends on which roles we have.
Some roles are good, others less so.

LaLight · « **Reply #97 on:** December 01, 2016, 01:41:19 pm »

Quote from: Joseph2302 on December 01, 2016, 01:36:16 pm

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 12:49:15 pm
so, having 5 mins of free time I want to do a list of players experience from vet to newb.

1,2) Faust/Gkrieg
3) Roadrunner
4) Joseph
5) Calamitas
6,7) Me/Jake
IDPTG
9) NotTheRealAlec

Okay, so, actually, we have a not vet-aligned nor news-aligned game. This is good.
AFAIK, RR and Jake are VLA (possibly Alec with them) so this game won't be so active (we need to wait for them either way).
I'd put myself at 3) on this list, and RR at 4. I've been playing for 2 years on here.

oh, sorry. I've seen many games with RR, less so with you. Sorry again

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #98 on:** December 01, 2016, 01:49:45 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 01:41:19 pm

Quote from: Joseph2302 on December 01, 2016, 01:36:16 pm
Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 12:49:15 pm
so, having 5 mins of free time I want to do a list of players experience from vet to newb.

1,2) Faust/Gkrieg
3) Roadrunner
4) Joseph
5) Calamitas
6,7) Me/Jake
IDPTG
9) NotTheRealAlec

Okay, so, actually, we have a not vet-aligned nor news-aligned game. This is good.
AFAIK, RR and Jake are VLA (possibly Alec with them) so this game won't be so active (we need to wait for them either way).
I'd put myself at 3) on this list, and RR at 4. I've been playing for 2 years on here.

oh, sorry. I've seen many games with RR, less so with you. Sorry again

I used to play more, but then I got a real life

Calamitas · « **Reply #99 on:** December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm »

Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.

faust · « **Reply #100 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:13:23 pm »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm

Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.

This is plain wrong. Claims lose credibility when D2 comes around, or at L-1. And every PR that claims now is a PR we don't quickhammer at the end of D1.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #101 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:14:47 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:13:23 pm

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm
Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.
This is plain wrong. Claims lose credibility when D2 comes around, or at L-1. And every PR that claims now is a PR we don't quickhammer at the end of D1.

I agree with faust on this front.

LaLight · « **Reply #102 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:15:51 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 01, 2016, 03:14:47 pm

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:13:23 pm
Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm
Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.
This is plain wrong. Claims lose credibility when D2 comes around, or at L-1. And every PR that claims now is a PR we don't quickhammer at the end of D1.

I agree with faust on this front.

Do you show people how "buddying" looks like?

Calamitas · « **Reply #103 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:24:54 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:13:23 pm

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm
Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.
This is plain wrong. Claims lose credibility when D2 comes around, or at L-1. And every PR that claims now is a PR we don't quickhammer at the end of D1.

Ehm, what? It is totally fine to claim L-2, absolutely no credibility loss there. Even L-1 kinda works because in that situation scum would need to risk a 50% chance of getting lynched themselves. Not that bad odds I would say. Claiming now is just insane.

faust · « **Reply #104 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:41:14 pm »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 03:24:54 pm

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:13:23 pm
Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm
Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.
This is plain wrong. Claims lose credibility when D2 comes around, or at L-1. And every PR that claims now is a PR we don't quickhammer at the end of D1.
Ehm, what? It is totally fine to claim L-2, absolutely no credibility loss there. Even L-1 kinda works because in that situation scum would need to risk a 50% chance of getting lynched themselves. Not that bad odds I would say. Claiming now is just insane.

As soon as people have given reads, scum has an incentive to fakeclaim; more the stronger these reads get. If you think that we have enough time to wait for a claim at every L-something, then you haven't played enough games on here.

Calamitas · « **Reply #105 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:47:26 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:41:14 pm

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 03:24:54 pm
Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:13:23 pm
Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm
Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.
This is plain wrong. Claims lose credibility when D2 comes around, or at L-1. And every PR that claims now is a PR we don't quickhammer at the end of D1.
Ehm, what? It is totally fine to claim L-2, absolutely no credibility loss there. Even L-1 kinda works because in that situation scum would need to risk a 50% chance of getting lynched themselves. Not that bad odds I would say. Claiming now is just insane.

As soon as people have given reads, scum has an incentive to fakeclaim; more the stronger these reads get. If you think that we have enough time to wait for a claim at every L-something, then you haven't played enough games on here.

Assume a L-2. Town claims a PR, scum counterclaims that PR. Either the town PR is lynched and the scum player the day after or the scum-player is lynched right away. If we assume random lynching, we have an IC and a scum death in 50% of all cases and a misslynch followed by a outing of a scum the day after in the other scenario. That is just a lot better than a PR claiming right away to get killed right away. The IC won't last unless we have a doctor lingering around so it is a useless one.

vote: Faust

Joseph2302 · « **Reply #106 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:51:22 pm »

Vote: faust

Don't 100% agree, and also it's a newbie game, so can we let the newbies have their say more?

Like I get that people like to post, but if all the veterans talk lots and suggest everything, what fun is there for the newbies?

LaLight · « **Reply #107 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:52:20 pm »

You are both right, people. Both situations will help town, but in different ways!

PPE: Joseph, you're right also, though newbies seem VLA so we just talk here

Calamitas · « **Reply #108 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:53:25 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 03:52:20 pm

You are both right, people. Both situations will help town, but in different ways!

PPE: Joseph, you're right also, though newbies seem VLA so we just talk here

In how far does losing a PR help town?

LaLight · « **Reply #109 on:** December 01, 2016, 03:56:32 pm »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 03:53:25 pm

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 03:52:20 pm
You are both right, people. Both situations will help town, but in different ways!

PPE: Joseph, you're right also, though newbies seem VLA so we just talk here
In how far does losing a PR help town?

I mean IC is better than Weak Visitor for example, so it will help in two ways: we have IC and we know the scum role, so it is not many fake claims for scum. Anyway, Weak Visitor is bad even if he claims. He says he visits A, then he is dead. Killed by scum for example. Or scum makes no-kill if he visits them. So it's useless. IC is not useless.

But you are right too, in case we have counterclaims we out one of the scums for sure.

Calamitas · « **Reply #110 on:** December 01, 2016, 04:02:29 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 03:56:32 pm

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 03:53:25 pm
Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 03:52:20 pm
You are both right, people. Both situations will help town, but in different ways!

PPE: Joseph, you're right also, though newbies seem VLA so we just talk here
In how far does losing a PR help town?

I mean IC is better than Weak Visitor for example, so it will help in two ways: we have IC and we know the scum role, so it is not many fake claims for scum. Anyway, Weak Visitor is bad even if he claims. He says he visits A, then he is dead. Killed by scum for example. Or scum makes no-kill if he visits them. So it's useless. IC is not useless.

But you are right too, in case we have counterclaims we out one of the scums for sure.

Dead-weak-visiting-IC is not better than alive-ICable-weak-visitor. The only thing such an outing would do is forwarding the scum kill to a PR before the PR ever gets the chance to use their power. I don't thibk that is desirable.
Not claiming today is (almost) strictly better than claiming today.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #111 on:** December 01, 2016, 06:10:41 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 12:01:07 pm

What happens if a Weak Visitor targets someone who is investigation immune?

The Weak Visitor is not considered to be an investigation role, so they still die if they target an investigation-immune scum player.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #112 on:** December 01, 2016, 08:48:53 pm »

There's a lot of talk of the Weak Visitor claiming, but not many of the other roles. Should they exist, I'd rather not have someone out the Doctor or Cop. I'm against claiming because I don't want to give scum something to work with N1.

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #113 on:** December 01, 2016, 11:13:21 pm »

So we're still pretty much in RVS I guess. Alec is not VLA as far as I know, and Joseph is wayyyyy more experienced than me.

LaLight · « **Reply #114 on:** December 02, 2016, 12:04:07 am »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 01, 2016, 11:13:21 pm

So we're still pretty much in RVS I guess. Alec is not VLA as far as I know, and Joseph is wayyyyy more experienced than me.

What rvs are uou talking about? Talk with us, please!

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #115 on:** December 02, 2016, 12:06:43 am »

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 12:04:07 am

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 01, 2016, 11:13:21 pm
So we're still pretty much in RVS I guess. Alec is not VLA as far as I know, and Joseph is wayyyyy more experienced than me.

What rvs are uou talking about? Talk with us, please!

Well what do you want to talk about?

LaLight · « **Reply #116 on:** December 02, 2016, 12:17:23 am »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 02, 2016, 12:06:43 am

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 12:04:07 am
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 01, 2016, 11:13:21 pm
So we're still pretty much in RVS I guess. Alec is not VLA as far as I know, and Joseph is wayyyyy more experienced than me.

What rvs are uou talking about? Talk with us, please!
Well what do you want to talk about?

Okay, first, there were some questions from me. Second, we were talking about claiming and it would be good to know your opinion on it.

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #117 on:** December 02, 2016, 12:18:26 am »

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 12:17:23 am

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 02, 2016, 12:06:43 am
Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 12:04:07 am
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 01, 2016, 11:13:21 pm
So we're still pretty much in RVS I guess. Alec is not VLA as far as I know, and Joseph is wayyyyy more experienced than me.

What rvs are uou talking about? Talk with us, please!
Well what do you want to talk about?

Okay, first, there were some questions from me. Second, we were talking about claiming and it would be good to know your opinion on it.

Uh...no. Nope. Whoever's talking about claiming on D1 is probably town though.

Calamitas · « **Reply #118 on:** December 02, 2016, 01:08:02 am »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 02, 2016, 12:18:26 am

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 12:17:23 am
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 02, 2016, 12:06:43 am
Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 12:04:07 am
Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 01, 2016, 11:13:21 pm
So we're still pretty much in RVS I guess. Alec is not VLA as far as I know, and Joseph is wayyyyy more experienced than me.

What rvs are uou talking about? Talk with us, please!
Well what do you want to talk about?

Okay, first, there were some questions from me. Second, we were talking about claiming and it would be good to know your opinion on it.
Uh...no. Nope. Whoever's talking about claiming on D1 is probably town though.

Faust is too good for that.

faust · « **Reply #119 on:** December 02, 2016, 03:23:04 am »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 03:47:26 pm

Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:41:14 pm
Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 03:24:54 pm
Quote from: faust on December 01, 2016, 03:13:23 pm
Quote from: Calamitas on December 01, 2016, 02:23:15 pm
Claims are awful. Every PR is an IC that becomes an IC as soon as they want to. No need to rush there and get killed, doing it whenever they actually appear to get lynched is the way to go.
Not sure what to think about faust Because of that proposal.
This is plain wrong. Claims lose credibility when D2 comes around, or at L-1. And every PR that claims now is a PR we don't quickhammer at the end of D1.
Ehm, what? It is totally fine to claim L-2, absolutely no credibility loss there. Even L-1 kinda works because in that situation scum would need to risk a 50% chance of getting lynched themselves. Not that bad odds I would say. Claiming now is just insane.

As soon as people have given reads, scum has an incentive to fakeclaim; more the stronger these reads get. If you think that we have enough time to wait for a claim at every L-something, then you haven't played enough games on here.
Assume a L-2. Town claims a PR, scum counterclaims that PR. Either the town PR is lynched and the scum player the day after or the scum-player is lynched right away. If we assume random lynching, we have an IC and a scum death in 50% of all cases and a misslynch followed by a outing of a scum the day after in the other scenario. That is just a lot better than a PR claiming right away to get killed right away. The IC won't last unless we have a doctor lingering around so it is a useless one.

vote: Faust

Mislynch followed by scum lynch is not that great in a 9 player game.

faust · « **Reply #120 on:** December 02, 2016, 03:24:03 am »

Quote from: Joseph2302 on December 01, 2016, 03:51:22 pm

Vote: faust

Don't 100% agree, and also it's a newbie game, so can we let the newbies have their say more?

Like I get that people like to post, but if all the veterans talk lots and suggest everything, what fun is there for the newbies?

Well, I agree in theory, but also, I haven't been in a game for like two months. There are things that I need to get out of my system.

faust · « **Reply #121 on:** December 02, 2016, 03:25:25 am »

Plus, vets should pose an example to newbies. If vets lurk, then newbies get the impression that it's okay to lurk, and everything will be one big lurkfest. This is basically what happened in my first newbie game. (a long time ago)

LaLight · « **Reply #122 on:** December 02, 2016, 03:29:10 am »

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 03:25:25 am

Plus, vets should pose an example to newbies. If vets lurk, then newbies get the impression that it's okay to lurk, and everything will be one big lurkfest. This is basically what happened in my first newbie game. (a long time ago)

That's true of course.
I'm a bit afraid Newbies will be scared to step up to our "Claim conversation" cause they don't have an opinion on it.
Also, Prod: Alec. Come here, man, tell us something about yourself.

Calamitas · « **Reply #123 on:** December 02, 2016, 03:53:37 am »

Just don't claim, why is this even a debate...

LaLight · « **Reply #124 on:** December 02, 2016, 04:07:25 am »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 02, 2016, 03:53:37 am

Just don't claim, why is this even a debate...

We need a way out of the RVS

Calamitas · « **Reply #125 on:** December 02, 2016, 04:22:11 am »

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 04:07:25 am

Quote from: Calamitas on December 02, 2016, 03:53:37 am
Just don't claim, why is this even a debate...

We need a way out of the RVS

Sure, but not like that...

faust · « **Reply #126 on:** December 02, 2016, 06:55:55 am »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 02, 2016, 04:22:11 am

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 04:07:25 am
Quote from: Calamitas on December 02, 2016, 03:53:37 am
Just don't claim, why is this even a debate...

We need a way out of the RVS
Sure, but not like that...

Well I'm open to other suggestions.

How about vote: Calamitas?

LaLight · « **Reply #127 on:** December 02, 2016, 07:10:43 am »

Apparently tomorrow Jake will come and we'll leave RVS soon-ish

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #128 on:** December 02, 2016, 07:30:18 am »

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 03:29:10 am

Also, Prod: Alec. Come here, man, tell us something about yourself.

Prod sent. Note there is no hard prod/replacement rule in the current rule-set as listed in post #1. However, players should still aim not to go as long as 24 hours without posting, where possible.

NotTheRealAlec · « **Reply #129 on:** December 02, 2016, 09:00:38 am »

Hey sorry I couldn't respond wont happen again

faust · « **Reply #130 on:** December 02, 2016, 09:01:44 am »

Quote from: NotTheRealAlec on December 02, 2016, 09:00:38 am

Hey sorry I couldn't respond wont happen again

So... respond?

LaLight · « **Reply #131 on:** December 02, 2016, 09:13:57 am »

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 09:01:44 am

Quote from: NotTheRealAlec on December 02, 2016, 09:00:38 am
Hey sorry I couldn't respond wont happen again
So... respond?

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #132 on:** December 02, 2016, 09:31:06 am »

Vote Count 1.2

Joseph (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame
faust (2): Calamitas, Joseph
Calamiats (1): faust

Not Voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, NotTheRealAlec, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

NotTheRealAlec · « **Reply #133 on:** December 02, 2016, 09:46:58 am »

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on December 02, 2016, 09:31:06 am

Vote Count 1.2

Joseph (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame
faust (2): Calamitas, Joseph
Calamiats (1): faust

Not Voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, NotTheRealAlec, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13
HOW DO I VOTE I AM A NOOBIE

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

LaLight · « **Reply #134 on:** December 02, 2016, 09:48:29 am »

Quote from: NotTheRealAlec on December 02, 2016, 09:46:58 am

Quote from: SpaceAnemone on December 02, 2016, 09:31:06 am
Vote Count 1.2

Joseph (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame
faust (2): Calamitas, Joseph
Calamiats (1): faust

Not Voting (4): JaketheBaseballGod22, NotTheRealAlec, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13
HOW DO I VOTE I AM A NOOBIE

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

You should bold your vote. Read the rules on the first page it's pretty clear

faust · « **Reply #135 on:** December 02, 2016, 10:13:30 am »

So, fakeAlec, what's your prior mafia experience?

faust · « **Reply #136 on:** December 02, 2016, 10:14:29 am »

I'd also lke to know the same from Idon, since IDidn'tPlayThisGameWithThem.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #137 on:** December 02, 2016, 10:38:11 am »

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 10:14:29 am

I'd also lke to know the same from Idon, since IDidn'tPlayThisGameWithThem.

You mean from IDPTG?

faust · « **Reply #138 on:** December 02, 2016, 11:07:52 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 02, 2016, 10:38:11 am

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 10:14:29 am
I'd also lke to know the same from Idon, since IDidn'tPlayThisGameWithThem.

You mean from IDPTG?

Yeah, that's a stupid nickname. He's Idon to me.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #139 on:** December 02, 2016, 11:55:23 am »

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 10:14:29 am

I'd also lke to know the same from Idon, since IDidn'tPlayThisGameWithThem.

Well, that depends. How much can we say about an ongoing game? Are we allowed to say that it exists?

faust · « **Reply #140 on:** December 02, 2016, 12:06:35 pm »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 02, 2016, 11:55:23 am

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 10:14:29 am
I'd also lke to know the same from Idon, since IDidn'tPlayThisGameWithThem.

Well, that depends. How much can we say about an ongoing game? Are we allowed to say that it exists?

You can say that it exists.

NotTheRealAlec · « **Reply #141 on:** December 02, 2016, 12:13:46 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 10:13:30 am

So, fakeAlec, what's your prior mafia experience?

non

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #142 on:** December 02, 2016, 01:03:47 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 12:06:35 pm

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 02, 2016, 11:55:23 am
Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 10:14:29 am
I'd also lke to know the same from Idon, since IDidn'tPlayThisGameWithThem.

Well, that depends. How much can we say about an ongoing game? Are we allowed to say that it exists?
You can say that it exists.

My only forum mafia experience is this game and an ongoing one. My IRL experience is two short, awful games.

LaLight · « **Reply #143 on:** December 02, 2016, 01:16:32 pm »

okay, if we go with gut feelings i gutfeel RR and Calamitas leaning town and GKrieg leaning scum. So much I have. How usually people go out of the RVS and start yelling and accusing each other?

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #144 on:** December 02, 2016, 01:24:51 pm »

It's possible that it's my newness speaking, but I'm leaning Faust as scum due to this claim discussion.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #145 on:** December 02, 2016, 02:32:04 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 01:16:32 pm

okay, if we go with gut feelings i gutfeel RR and Calamitas leaning town and GKrieg leaning scum. So much I have. How usually people go out of the RVS and start yelling and accusing each other?

Why leaning scum on me?

faust · « **Reply #146 on:** December 02, 2016, 04:16:21 pm »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 02, 2016, 01:24:51 pm

It's possible that it's my newness speaking, but I'm leaning Faust as scum due to this claim discussion.

Well, let's see. What about it makes you think that I could be scum?

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #147 on:** December 02, 2016, 10:56:37 pm »

Checking in.

I'm no longer VLA tomorrow, which'll be awesome. I don't really like the Faust wagon, but I'll probably have to read instead of skim-read.

LaLight · « **Reply #148 on:** December 03, 2016, 02:12:48 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 02, 2016, 02:32:04 pm

Quote from: LaLight on December 02, 2016, 01:16:32 pm
okay, if we go with gut feelings i gutfeel RR and Calamitas leaning town and GKrieg leaning scum. So much I have. How usually people go out of the RVS and start yelling and accusing each other?

Why leaning scum on me?

It's not a hard position of mine. It's just that in 4 posts you have i can't see any useful info that i wait to see in your posts

In two of them you agree/partly agree with faust, one is about IDPTG nickname and 1 is answers to my question and your traditional WW vote (I remember how i put it in a first vote count in Worms

). So this is like you are trying to buddy faust and make a team with him?

Again, gut feeling and analysis of 4 posts

LaLight · « **Reply #149 on:** December 03, 2016, 02:14:44 am »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 02, 2016, 10:56:37 pm

Checking in.

I'm no longer VLA tomorrow, which'll be awesome. I don't really like the Faust wagon, but I'll probably have to read instead of skim-read.

Faust wagon consists of 2 people, one of whom is probably RVSing.
Jake will come also, right?

faust · « **Reply #150 on:** December 03, 2016, 04:16:41 am »

Quote from: LaLight on December 03, 2016, 02:14:44 am

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 02, 2016, 10:56:37 pm
Checking in.

I'm no longer VLA tomorrow, which'll be awesome. I don't really like the Faust wagon, but I'll probably have to read instead of skim-read.

Faust wagon consists of 2 people, one of whom is probably RVSing.
Jake will come also, right?

Well, Idon thinks I'm scummy too apparently. Treating it as a wagon is probably better than ignoring it, because this way we'll have something to talk about.

Calamitas · « **Reply #151 on:** December 03, 2016, 05:05:58 am »

Well, his proposal has been definitely anti-town. It would have been awful if a newbie would have listened. And I don't think faust would act that foolish as town, ever. There is no town narrative that justifies that. As scum he might try any number of things, he could always claim "I wouldn't play that shallow as scum" (see roads response in #117) and just get away with it. So yeah, this is a serious vote.

faust · « **Reply #152 on:** December 03, 2016, 05:15:38 am »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 05:05:58 am

Well, his proposal has been definitely anti-town. It would have been awful if a newbie would have listened. And I don't think faust would act that foolish as town, ever. There is no town narrative that justifies that. As scum he might try any number of things, he could always claim "I wouldn't play that shallow as scum" (see roads response in #117) and just get away with it. So yeah, this is a serious vote.

Except it would not have been awful. Like seriously. I'm not saying that scum would never push a plan that is anti-town, but it's a very thin line. You don't just come out of the blue and do that.

Did you consider that we might have a theory disagreement? I mean gkrieg thinks the same way I do, and we have more experience in this than you. Are we scumpartners then?

Calamitas · « **Reply #153 on:** December 03, 2016, 05:34:44 am »

Again, why this plan is awful:

Scenario A - No claim:
Player X and Y are PRs, none claims. Town lynches anyone besides them (if close to lynch they would claim) and scum must kill basically randomly. Later they may decide to claim to gain IC status or force scum to counterclaim which increases the probability of a scum lynch significantly.

Scenario B - 1 Claim:
Player X and Y are PRs again. X claims D1. X is an IC but still a PR. Town lynches again anyone besides X and Y and scum kills X. Killing PRs has been the goal for scum anyways, so they are happy that they know X and just take him out. Town has just lost a PR with a probability of close to 1 for literally no benefit.

faust · « **Reply #154 on:** December 03, 2016, 07:32:20 am »

I would appreciate it if you actually answered to my post instead of retreating to pure theory-crafting. Still, let's take a look at your claims.

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 05:34:44 am

Scenario A - No claim:
Player X and Y are PRs, none claims. Town lynches anyone besides them (if close to lynch they would claim)

Let's just pause here and note that this has not worked well in the past and there is no reason to assume that it will work here.

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 05:34:44 am

and scum must kill basically randomly. Later they may decide to claim to gain IC status or force scum to counterclaim which increases the probability of a scum lynch significantly.

First, scum would not force a 1-1 situation if it would actually increase the probability of their team winning. So the counterclaim scenario is bad. Second, look at the bad outcome here - we lynch one of our PRs. If scum claims first, they can out our more powerful PR. So in the bad case scenario, we lynch our most powerful PR, with is something we don't ever want to do.

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 05:34:44 am

Scenario B - 1 Claim:
Player X and Y are PRs again. X claims D1. X is an IC but still a PR. Town lynches again anyone besides X and Y and scum kills X. Killing PRs has been the goal for scum anyways, so they are happy that they know X and just take him out.

Let's interject again because ou apparently do not read what I write. X would be the weaker PR. If they lnch them, they guarantee that the stronger PR can get results in. Which matters in a small game. So first off, scum's decision is not that easy.

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 05:34:44 am

Town has just lost a PR with a probability of close to 1 for literally no benefit.

Literally wrong, as explained. Not to mention that scum's goal is not only to take out PRs, but also strong players. This may seem harsh, but I'd rather have scum kill a newbie lurker PR than say, gkrieg.

faust · « **Reply #155 on:** December 03, 2016, 07:34:20 am »

Now I regret posting that. We should move away from theory. Every potential PR has already had the time to make up their mind, so let's move on.

Calamitas is a decent place for my vote. Their intent to make a theory disagreement into a scumtell is a typical way for scum to fabricate reads.

Calamitas · « **Reply #156 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:07:52 am »

What you wrote there is just wrong. Will respond when I get access to a computer.

faust · « **Reply #157 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:17:21 am »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 08:07:52 am

What you wrote there is just wrong. Will respond when I get access to a computer.

Please don't.

faust · « **Reply #158 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:18:43 am »

Or maybe that's unfair; you can have the last word if you wish. Just don't expect me to respond, and don't assume you won the argument if I don't respond.

LaLight · « **Reply #159 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:25:57 am »

come on guys, i still see you're both right, stop quarreling!

We haven't heard from Jake yet, so he may be such a PR.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #160 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:21:23 am »

Quote from: faust on December 02, 2016, 04:16:21 pm

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 02, 2016, 01:24:51 pm
It's possible that it's my newness speaking, but I'm leaning Faust as scum due to this claim discussion.
Well, let's see. What about it makes you think that I could be scum?

Sorry for the late response. I reread the set-up and changed my mind; I'm still not convinced claiming is correct, but I'm also not convinced it's a scum move. It would be pretty bad if we lost both of our PRs before D2 (we accidentally lynch one and scum NKs the other) but I don't see how avoiding that by guaranteeing they're both NKd by D3 is significantly better.

If theory talk is over, I'll end that there, but I'm starting to like the claim idea more.

Calamitas · « **Reply #161 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:27:13 am »

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 08:18:43 am

Or maybe that's unfair; you can have the last word if you wish. Just don't expect me to respond, and don't assume you won the argument if I don't respond.

I don't care about winning arguments at al but I don't want town to actually follow through with claiming.

faust · « **Reply #162 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:32:10 am »

I got that. Now can you answer my questions here:

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 05:15:38 am

Did you consider that we might have a theory disagreement? I mean gkrieg thinks the same way I do, and we have more experience in this than you. Are we scumpartners then?

Calamitas · « **Reply #163 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:41:12 am »

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 09:32:10 am

I got that. Now can you answer my questions here:
Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 05:15:38 am
Did you consider that we might have a theory disagreement? I mean gkrieg thinks the same way I do, and we have more experience in this than you. Are we scumpartners then?

Gkrieg might haven't thought it through, but I still don't like it. Bringing it up the first place is orders of magnitudes worse though.

faust · « **Reply #164 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:48:59 am »

That's just nonsense.

Okay, look into scum!me's head here: "Oh, I have this evil plan to out town's PRs. It' amazing! Well, it'll out one of them, maybe. The weakest. Also of course I can never convince vets to do this, because well it never ever works, the will do what they do regardless of what I say. But hey! I can still out weak newbie PRs. Then my team can kill them off and eliminate the tremendous threat posed by brand new players trying to utilize complicated weak PRs like Weak Visitor and Motion Detector!"

LaLight · « **Reply #165 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:04:31 am »

town points to both, let's move further.

faust · « **Reply #166 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:18:36 am »

Quote from: LaLight on December 03, 2016, 10:04:31 am

town points to both, let's move further.

Okay then, move.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #167 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:42:10 am »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 09:41:12 am

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 09:32:10 am
I got that. Now can you answer my questions here:
Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 05:15:38 am
Did you consider that we might have a theory disagreement? I mean gkrieg thinks the same way I do, and we have more experience in this than you. Are we scumpartners then?
Gkrieg might haven't thought it through, but I still don't like it. Bringing it up the first place is orders of magnitudes worse though.

I did think it through and I agree with Faust still and also agree that we should move forward and talk about something that doesn't exclude all of the newbies here who haven't posted for at least a page.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #168 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:43:38 am »

I also don't think Calamitas is scummy from this. I don't get why he would think Faust is scummy though. LaLight trying to move things along could be trying to match his town meta (how he plays as town) as scum.

Calamitas · « **Reply #169 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:53:58 am »

As long as nobody actually wants to claim I'm fine with moving onward. Though I still don't like faust's play here.

LaLight · « **Reply #170 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:57:47 am »

See, I know that's the topic we can talk about and it's relevant and important, it's just i think it needs to be toned down a little.

So, I want to hear something from RR, Jake and Alec. Their thoughts on what's going on and all this stuff with claiming.

LaLight · « **Reply #171 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:58:20 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 03, 2016, 10:43:38 am

I also don't think Calamitas is scummy from this. I don't get why he would think Faust is scummy though. LaLight trying to move things along could be trying to match his town meta (how he plays as town) as scum.

Yeah, okay, that's my meta and how i play games, so it's not alignment-indicative :-P

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #172 on:** December 03, 2016, 11:07:18 am »

Quote from: LaLight on December 03, 2016, 10:58:20 am

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 03, 2016, 10:43:38 am
I also don't think Calamitas is scummy from this. I don't get why he would think Faust is scummy though. LaLight trying to move things along could be trying to match his town meta (how he plays as town) as scum.

Yeah, okay, that's my meta and how i play games, so it's not alignment-indicative :-P

I don't remember playing with you when you were scum. So I'm not sure how much you try to emulate your meta.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #173 on:** December 03, 2016, 11:07:58 am »

Oh now I remember which game it was, but I don't remember how you acted.

LaLight · « **Reply #174 on:** December 03, 2016, 11:08:39 am »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 03, 2016, 11:07:18 am

Quote from: LaLight on December 03, 2016, 10:58:20 am
Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 03, 2016, 10:43:38 am
I also don't think Calamitas is scummy from this. I don't get why he would think Faust is scummy though. LaLight trying to move things along could be trying to match his town meta (how he plays as town) as scum.

Yeah, okay, that's my meta and how i play games, so it's not alignment-indicative :-P

I don't remember playing with you when you were scum. So I'm not sure how much you try to emulate your meta.

M86, we were scums together. And i pushed the game there.

PPE: 1 here are the answers

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #175 on:** December 03, 2016, 12:25:58 pm »

I agree that we should move on to a new topic. The discussion of whether something works in the majority of cases (when we're not analyzing pure probability) isn't very newbie friendly. Especially because I don't know how much we (the new players) can even gain from analyzing that discussion. I still feel like I have no reads from it.

faust · « **Reply #176 on:** December 03, 2016, 03:30:03 pm »

How about, every time you are not satisfied with the current discussion, instead of saying "we should move on to a new topic", you actually move on to a new topic?

(This goes for everyone.)

faust · « **Reply #177 on:** December 03, 2016, 03:41:08 pm »

For example, let's look at LaLight. He has a couple of posts, right?

He opens the game by asking some questions. Not exactly sure what for... have you gotten anything out of that, LaLight? There's some fluff, and agreement with me on theory.

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 03:52:20 pm

You are both right, people. Both situations will help town, but in different ways!

PPE: Joseph, you're right also, though newbies seem VLA so we just talk here

This is such a weird post. Everyone cannot be right if we're arguing for contrary things! A little townie also, because it seems like a weird stance for scum to take.

He's generally trying to move the game forward, which is nice but also null. All posts are so pleasant, none of them seem to be designed to create discussion or put the spotlight on LaLight himself, so that's not so good.

But then he gives some reads, which is good again, and unprompted too. Case on gkrieg is actually not terrible.

Okay, I think overall LaLight seems towny.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #178 on:** December 03, 2016, 04:26:03 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 03:30:03 pm

How about, every time you are not satisfied with the current discussion, instead of saying "we should move on to a new topic", you actually move on to a new topic?

(This goes for everyone.)

Fair enough. I would like to hear from RR, Jake, and Alec. We haven't heard a single thing from Jake, two posts from Alec, neither of which had content, and a couple of things about RVS and the claim discussion from RR.

Granted, I'm guilty of my criticism of Alec's posts; I haven't really said a whole lot.

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 03:41:08 pm

For example, let's look at LaLight. He has a couple of posts, right?

He opens the game by asking some questions. Not exactly sure what for... have you gotten anything out of that, LaLight? There's some fluff, and agreement with me on theory.

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 03:52:20 pm
You are both right, people. Both situations will help town, but in different ways!

PPE: Joseph, you're right also, though newbies seem VLA so we just talk here
This is such a weird post. Everyone cannot be right if we're arguing for contrary things! A little townie also, because it seems like a weird stance for scum to take.

I think I understand what LaLight is saying here (and why it makes sense), but I'd like to hear it from LaLight himself.

@Faust, initially I thought you were scum due to the claiming, but I'm starting to see it more as something to benefit town. Mafia already knows which PRs are in the game, so there's no revealing the existence of, say, a Doctor to them; only town doesn't know if there is one. Given the way I'm now feeling about that, I'm more inclined to see Calamitas and RR in that light (despite agreeing with them initially).

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 03, 2016, 10:43:38 am

I also don't think Calamitas is scummy from this.

I think gkrieg has a point here; being opposed to the claim does not necessarily mean scum. However, I think it's still something worth considering.

PPE: 1

faust · « **Reply #179 on:** December 03, 2016, 04:40:29 pm »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 03, 2016, 04:26:03 pm

@Faust, initially I thought you were scum due to the claiming, but I'm starting to see it more as something to benefit town. Mafia already knows which PRs are in the game, so there's no revealing the existence of, say, a Doctor to them; only town doesn't know if there is one. Given the way I'm now feeling about that, I'm more inclined to see Calamitas and RR in that light (despite agreeing with them initially).

Hrum. You're actually right. You did not play this setup before, right? This is one of those instances where I don't want to punish people for reading the setup.

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 03, 2016, 04:26:03 pm

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 03, 2016, 10:43:38 am
I also don't think Calamitas is scummy from this.

I think gkrieg has a point here; being opposed to the claim does not necessarily mean scum. However, I think it's still something worth considering.

Being opposed to claiming is completely null. Calamitas is scummy for other reasons.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #180 on:** December 03, 2016, 05:15:35 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 04:40:29 pm

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 03, 2016, 04:26:03 pm
@Faust, initially I thought you were scum due to the claiming, but I'm starting to see it more as something to benefit town. Mafia already knows which PRs are in the game, so there's no revealing the existence of, say, a Doctor to them; only town doesn't know if there is one. Given the way I'm now feeling about that, I'm more inclined to see Calamitas and RR in that light (despite agreeing with them initially).
Hrum. You're actually right. You did not play this setup before, right? This is one of those instances where I don't want to punish people for reading the setup.

I read the setup but found out I missed a line when I reread it. And yes, I've never played this setup. I think that answers what you're asking?

LaLight · « **Reply #181 on:** December 03, 2016, 06:06:07 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 03:41:08 pm

For example, let's look at LaLight. He has a couple of posts, right?

He opens the game by asking some questions. Not exactly sure what for... have you gotten anything out of that, LaLight? There's some fluff, and agreement with me on theory.

Quote from: LaLight on December 01, 2016, 03:52:20 pm
You are both right, people. Both situations will help town, but in different ways!

PPE: Joseph, you're right also, though newbies seem VLA so we just talk here
This is such a weird post. Everyone cannot be right if we're arguing for contrary things! A little townie also, because it seems like a weird stance for scum to take.

He's generally trying to move the game forward, which is nice but also null. All posts are so pleasant, none of them seem to be designed to create discussion or put the spotlight on LaLight himself, so that's not so good.

But then he gives some reads, which is good again, and unprompted too. Case on gkrieg is actually not terrible.

Okay, I think overall LaLight seems towny.

1) I haven't gotten anything from the answers to my questions. Yet.
2) Yes you can be both right, i told you why and i will repeat now: both cases are good for finding scum, though yours is good in a long term, and Calamitas' one is good for the actual situation we might have. and yes, if we do one we can't do second: that's contrary, but not the righteousness. question is what case is better and here i can't say exactly the answer.

LaLight · « **Reply #182 on:** December 03, 2016, 06:07:29 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 04:40:29 pm

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 03, 2016, 04:26:03 pm
@Faust, initially I thought you were scum due to the claiming, but I'm starting to see it more as something to benefit town. Mafia already knows which PRs are in the game, so there's no revealing the existence of, say, a Doctor to them; only town doesn't know if there is one. Given the way I'm now feeling about that, I'm more inclined to see Calamitas and RR in that light (despite agreeing with them initially).
Hrum. You're actually right. You did not play this setup before, right? This is one of those instances where I don't want to punish people for reading the setup.

Because you read it first? :-)

faust · « **Reply #183 on:** December 03, 2016, 06:10:04 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on December 03, 2016, 06:07:29 pm

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 04:40:29 pm
Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 03, 2016, 04:26:03 pm
@Faust, initially I thought you were scum due to the claiming, but I'm starting to see it more as something to benefit town. Mafia already knows which PRs are in the game, so there's no revealing the existence of, say, a Doctor to them; only town doesn't know if there is one. Given the way I'm now feeling about that, I'm more inclined to see Calamitas and RR in that light (despite agreeing with them initially).
Hrum. You're actually right. You did not play this setup before, right? This is one of those instances where I don't want to punish people for reading the setup.

Because you read it first? :-)

Not that part actually. I just looked at the role roster because I thought I knew everything about how the setup worked.

faust · « **Reply #184 on:** December 03, 2016, 06:10:33 pm »

So I'm obviously an IC now

Calamitas · « **Reply #185 on:** December 03, 2016, 06:12:44 pm »

Will deliver a nore detailed analysis on the claiming thing, this thing has to get resolved before we do something different. This is one of the more important decisions in regard to towns gameplan so we should discuss this thoroughly to ensure we pick the best strategy there. Just because we are playing a newbie game here doesn't mean we shouldn't play suboptimal (at least to this extent).

faust · « **Reply #186 on:** December 03, 2016, 06:17:30 pm »

Quote from: Calamitas on December 03, 2016, 06:12:44 pm

Just because we are playing a newbie game here doesn't mean we shouldn't play suboptimal (at least to this extent).

I would be careful with throwing around all these negations.

The actual suboptimal play is to not discuss reads on D1. That's way more important than some theory discussion during which we will never reach a consensus. You should focus your energy on other things.

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #187 on:** December 03, 2016, 06:39:04 pm »

Jake and I are both back, hooray!

Don't claim!

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #188 on:** December 03, 2016, 07:32:37 pm »

Quote from: faust on December 03, 2016, 06:10:33 pm

So I'm obviously an IC now

Every time you do this, I always think it is scummy. Then you flip town...

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #189 on:** December 03, 2016, 07:58:26 pm »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 03, 2016, 06:39:04 pm

Jake and I are both back, hooray!

Don't claim!

Don't claim also I back and ready to go also Vote: RR Scum lord 101

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #190 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:08:19 pm »

We're out of RVS, but great.

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #191 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:10:26 pm »

Quote from: Roadrunner7671 on December 03, 2016, 08:08:19 pm

We're out of RVS, but great.

Boi it's D-1 so were not and Alec needs to talk more if he doesn't wanna die for lurking

Roadrunner7671 · « **Reply #192 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:11:27 pm »

At least we already know that the player posting is in fact Jake and his account hasn't been compromised.

SpaceAnemone · « **Reply #193 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:20:03 pm »

Vote Count 1.3

Joseph (1): LaLight
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame
faust (2): Calamitas, Joseph
Calamitas (1): faust
Roadrunner7671 (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not Voting (3): NotTheRealAlec, Roadrunner7671, gkrieg13

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Wednesday 7th December at 2pm forum time.

IDontPlayThisGame · « **Reply #194 on:** December 04, 2016, 02:08:41 am »

vote: Jake

LaLight · « **Reply #195 on:** December 04, 2016, 01:26:43 pm »

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 04, 2016, 02:08:41 am

vote: Jake

Any reasons?

Calamitas · « **Reply #196 on:** December 04, 2016, 01:46:10 pm »

Insanely busy today, will be back tomorrow.

gkrieg13 · « **Reply #197 on:** December 04, 2016, 02:03:35 pm »

Quote from: LaLight on December 04, 2016, 01:26:43 pm

Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 04, 2016, 02:08:41 am
vote: Jake

Any reasons?

Don't you kind of want to vote Jake as well?

LaLight · « **Reply #198 on:** December 04, 2016, 02:16:27 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 04, 2016, 02:03:35 pm

Quote from: LaLight on December 04, 2016, 01:26:43 pm
Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 04, 2016, 02:08:41 am
vote: Jake

Any reasons?

Don't you kind of want to vote Jake as well?

I am interested to listen to IDPTG's reasons

JaketheBaseballGod22 · « **Reply #199 on:** December 04, 2016, 03:39:21 pm »

Quote from: gkrieg13 on December 04, 2016, 02:03:35 pm

Quote from: LaLight on December 04, 2016, 01:26:43 pm
Quote from: IDontPlayThisGame on December 04, 2016, 02:08:41 am
vote: Jake

Any reasons?

Don't you kind of want to vote Jake as well?

Why Big G

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