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[Robz888]

@Pops, well, but Axxle2 is the 5th vote for O. Would a mafia supply this crucial 5th vote to a fellow mafia? It was probably the vote that brought O from good odds of lynching to certainty of lynching.

I haven't found Axxle2's actions particularly scummy myself. I'm not at all ruling him out, and I guess I have him sort of high suspicion compared to many people, but it's a little tough for me to imagine getting on a fellow mafia bandwagon right at the sweet spot.

[Robz888]

And for what it's worth, Pops, you are pretty much cleared to me, at this point.

[popsofctown]

bleh.  It's WIFOM.  So much WIFOM.  I feel so much comfortable with individual scumtells.  And scum that scumslip and give you money fo' free

[Robz888]

bleh.  It's WIFOM.  So much WIFOM.  I feel so much comfortable with individual scumtells.  And scum that scumslip and give you money fo' free

Well, I like to analyze voting and accusation patterns.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

bleh.  It's WIFOM.  So much WIFOM.  I feel so much comfortable with individual scumtells.  And scum that scumslip and give you money fo' free

It's actually money for nothin and yo chicks fo free

[Axxle]

bleh.  It's WIFOM.  So much WIFOM.  I feel so much comfortable with individual scumtells.  And scum that scumslip and give you money fo' free

It's actually money for nothin and yo chicks fo free

You'll get money and you'll like it!

... wait...

[Captain_Frisk]

bleh.  It's WIFOM.  So much WIFOM.  I feel so much comfortable with individual scumtells.  And scum that scumslip and give you money fo' free

It's actually money for nothin and yo chicks fo free

My wife always thought it was checks for free. Like the singers a had good banking accounts.

[popsofctown]

i want chicks

[Tables]

That's enough quoting Dire Straits.

[Captain_Frisk]

Solo challenge: find a f.ds thread that would not be improved by yo momma jokes.

Vote: Yo Momma

Challenge failed - this thread would be improved with yo momma jokes.  And emoticons.

[Captain_Frisk]

what's scummy about Frisk's position on the chart is that Frisk was in no danger of being lynched so it doesn't cost him anything to say Frisk is scummy and try to get points if he turns up vigged.

I'm not sure what this is in reference to - what chart?

[Dsell]

O, this is a question to you: which of Galzria, Frisk, Jo, or Glooble, do you think is mafia?

Scummy<----Glooble----Pops-Frisk----------Galzria----------------------------Jo---->Not Scummy

I don't like how you removed Pops from the question directed at me.
Not sure about what Glooble's unvote means on this chart.

@C_F
This "chart." Or continuum. Or something.

[Axxle]

How have CF and O interacted outside of that "chart"? I'm willing to bet they avoided each other.  Checking now.

[Axxle]

Vote: Captain Frisk for being O's scumbuddy.  I went as far back as #530 (I figured most before that would be just good ol' random O), and he's only really talked about CF in groups of others, one weak vote, and this:

I'm actually more curious about O's lack of mentioning this than suspicion on Theorel himself.  What do you think about Theorel at the moment O?

Erm... I think he's a dead townie.

And CF, I'm not giving SFS a FOS for dogmatically following you. I'm giving him a FOBTS (finger of bad townie suspicion). SFS is obvtown (for now at least, there are no obvtowns in lylo except for confirmed towns by a role claimed cop with 1 mafia left, or similar If-he's-lying-then-he's-the-only-mafia situations).

I find Pops change in vote/behavior interesting, as well as Axxles inane question (gee.. really.. I wonder what *everybody* thinks of a dead townie..)

Yes, yet again I'm defending Dsell, Sir Captain Frisk. This strongheadedness (which Dsell highlighted) really really bothers me.

In the interest of seeing where this goes:

This feels like the 5th or 6th time I've seen this (it might only be the second, but its certainly at least the second).

There's nothing inherently wrong with the statement as long as you also recognize that voting makes the statement "I am happy with player _X_ getting lynched tonight".

Which smacks of coaching.  (The context of the second is very confusing, I don't see why O mentions CF from his previous posts)

Before that he comments on CF's and SFS's buddy/buddyness (#885). He even comments later that he thinks it's this comment that caused the falling out (#1011). Sounds like scumhunting, but since we know O is mafia it now looks like he was creating a pair that he might have been able to use to lynch SFS if things went south with CF.

[popsofctown]

but he called sfs obvtown.  That makes it kinda hard to flip around on him.

[Axxle]

but he called sfs obvtown.  That makes it kinda hard to flip around on him.

#885 and #1367 were separated by almost a week.  SFS wasn't really obvtown anyway until is role reveal.

[popsofctown]

Look, if you were in the game during that time, you would have known SFS was obvtown.  Unfortunately, you weren't Axxle2.  You didn't replace in until day 2.

Don't show up late to our mafia game and tell us how to play

[Axxle]

Look, if you were in the game during that time, you would have known SFS was obvtown.  Unfortunately, you weren't Axxle2.  You didn't replace in until day 2.

Don't show up late to our mafia game and tell us how to play

Bahahaha.

Maybe he was, I honestly can't remember.



On a completely frivolous note:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=stats

weeeeee are the champiooonnssss

Total Posts:    55705
Mafia IV: Within These Estate Walls (DAY 3 START!)       2340

~ 4.2% of all posts on F.DS.  We crazy.

New goal:
WanderingWinder       2776

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Starting this after 2337.

TL;DR version:  I went back and looked at all O's posts that took a position on another player, beginning at 372, and ending when the ball began rolling on the O bandwagon.  The pattern I see most clearly (and I dont think it is confirmation bias) is O defending Jo (see red highlights).  He mentions a lot of folks, including me a fair bit, but when it comes down to actually taking positions, he's defending/deflecting from Jo.

Here's the long version (my thoughts are in trailing parentheses).  My apologies for referring to myself as SFS, but I think it will reduce the potential for confusion long-term:

#372 - Votes Pops for being "Galzria-Confident on steroids" (this was immediately after Pops told everyone to lay off SFS)
763 - "doesn't believe J is mafia"
829 - mildly suspicious of Frisk for indirect accusations
885 - states that Frisk and SFS agree on a lot of things
899 - wants to be reminded of case against Axxle1
906 - admits to defending Dsell
917 - reminds us that we can lynch Pops, because he (O) doesn't like the "old-do-nothing-and-people-will-eventually-forget-I've-acted-crazy-scummy strategy" (two posts later Jo chimes in with "I dont either but you cant argue with the results")
923 - says there doesnt seem to be a case against Axxle1
932 - finds Axxle1's discussion of Mafia theory to be "townish"
944 - says that "barring idiotic actions, won't hammer Axxle1
971 - mentions strawman case against Axxle1, reminds us his vote is still on Pops
978 - says "Theorel is covering himself and deflecting suspicions elsewhere"
982 - votes for Theorel
1192 - says Pops, Frisk and SFS still annoy him
1245 - Links SFS to Frisk again (this is not the first time, though I failed to make note of the previous post number(s), and I am too tired to go back)
1247 - Explains staying off bandwagons because Pops, SFS, and Theorel were "acting incredibly scummily"
1252 - (addressing Jo specifically, and archly): "I'm mafia because I saw past your slightly odd play - Just ask Pops"
1257 - I cant analyze this post very well, but he's taking issue with Galzria' post in 1256, which references MII and Jo's play, and it reads to me as a defense of/deflection for Jo.  I'd like for someone to parse this one to see if my read is right, that he's defending Jo.
1260 - This is a Jo post, where Jo notes "how advanced and difficult it is to play like O" and over the next few posts there ensues a lovefest between Jo and O.
1278 - "Dammit J, you make it hard to defend you" (possible humor?)
1347 - Votes for Frisk, says he's already FOS'd Frisk several times
1367 - says SFS is obvTown, but gives SFS an FOBTS
1384 - says SFS would be worst town of all time under the specific condition of Glooble AND SFS being town.  Goes further, saying Glooble's play would have been damn terrible if he is town, just not as terrible as SFS's
1449 - Found Galz suspicious until Axxle, Pops, and CF voted for him (Galz), so Galz is less suspicious now
1484 - in responding to SFS's vote on him, says explaining himself (for what SFS noted) would "nearly certainly not be good for the town". (I read this as avoidance at the time, but asked for hypothetical situations where he could legitimately take this position)
1486 - reaffirms SFS's "towniness"
1731 - votes GLooble, says the choice is between Gloob and Pops
1742 - says Pops is dangerous if Mafia
1812 - says "Jo is scumhunting as much as any of us IMO"
1853 - says "If Jo is mafia, he would have been bussed by now"
1878 - says "Jo is obvTown"
1885 - says "SFS and Jo are helpless townie reads.

For these and all the other reasons I've already expressed on Day 2:

VOTE: JOTHEONAH

[Axxle]

Thanks SFS, that should help a lot.

[Axxle]

Look, if you were in the game during that time, you would have known SFS was obvtown.  Unfortunately, you weren't Axxle2.  You didn't replace in until day 2.

Don't show up late to our mafia game and tell us how to play

According to SFS's summary, O was painting SFS in a scummy light at least through post 1247

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

@Pops - I've been wanting to ask for 3+ weeks: In post 371, when discussing my posts and my alignment, you say "not sure which (interpretation) I favor".  One minute and 38 seconds later, you've made up your mind, saying (in 372) "it's town. Lay off him.  Let's move onward".

What happened in those 98 seconds that lent you such forceful clarity?  No accusation, just curious.

[Captain_Frisk]

+1 SFS - that was extremely helpful. 

I was about to say 1878 looks strange to me, but the wagon on O didn't start until 2000 or so, so he still thought he was in the clear suspicionwise.
 The only problem I have is that it seems odd for multiple mafias to adopt "crazy" as a play style.  Of course, I want to lynch pops and j, so what do I know?

[Tables]

Hmm, SFS, I like that list, but there's one big thing that jumps out at me: O's mentions of Joth are in big groups, while Frisk gets continual small mentions throughout. It would seem to me that the Frisk conversations are more genuine considering that, as you're more likely to have your scumbuddy in mind continually, and the person you want to buddy up to, you can talk about/to at discreet periods when the oppertunity arises.

This isn't to say I'm convined either way. But I'm tired now and can't think straight so, eh.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Hmm, SFS, I like that list, but there's one big thing that jumps out at me: O's mentions of Joth are in big groups, while Frisk gets continual small mentions throughout. It would seem to me that the Frisk conversations are more genuine considering that, as you're more likely to have your scumbuddy in mind continually, and the person you want to buddy up to, you can talk about/to at discreet periods when the oppertunity arises.

This isn't to say I'm convined either way. But I'm tired now and can't think straight so, eh.

I'm tired too, and am going to bed, but mentioning Frisk/voting for him is very different from defending Jo, IMO.  I probably should have added an editorial comment behind my summary of 1347.  Although O says he FOS'd Frisk, I didn't find those (by that, I meaning not only did I not find a true FOS phrasing, I read his frequent invocation of Frisk as just, well, mentioning him). Non-committal words like "annoy" etc.  Does this mean that Frisk is off the hook in my book? No, because something about him smells just a bit.  Can't quite put my finger on it.

Frisk is kind of like Pops for me.  They both say things that make me go, yep, that's town, but then every once and a while, something hits me wrong.