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[EFHW]

faust who did you target last night? 

[EFHW]

Voltaire who did you try to cop?

[xeiron]

I am not convinced we should claim all results immediately.
I'd rather see Faust, Voltaire and Walrus wait.

[xeiron]

Eevee was a babysitter, meaning he can protect, but if he is killed then his target is too. Plus any scum who targeted a kill at Eevee should have died.  So if Walrus shot Eevee, and Eevee protected Joth, they would all die. 

But Walrus has "good" in his name.  I think we need to ignore that and lynch Walrus anyway.

I looked up babysitter on mafiascum. I see that Joth would die if eevee died (assuming eevee targeted joth.)
But I do not see how Walrus would die (if he killed eevee). Can you explain that?

[faust]

So, let's put this together:

These are most likely the night actions:

Mafia killed Eevee
Eevee targeted jotheonah
Walrus targeted Eevee
jotheonah targeted X (hopefully not Voltaire)
I targeted Y (not Voltaire)
xeiron targeted Z (not Voltaire, as should be confirmable)
EFHW couldn't target anyone
Archetype targeted Eevee (claimed)

From this, it seems likely that A) Walrus is indeed scum and his targeting was the kill. B) If so, Walrus could have used his second action to target Voltaire. C) If Walrus didn't target Voltaire, either Archetype targeted him or Voltaire is lying.

I think we need Walrus to claim, and to full-claim.

[faust]

Eevee was a babysitter, meaning he can protect, but if he is killed then his target is too. Plus any scum who targeted a kill at Eevee should have died.  So if Walrus shot Eevee, and Eevee protected Joth, they would all die. 

But Walrus has "good" in his name.  I think we need to ignore that and lynch Walrus anyway.

I looked up babysitter on mafiascum. I see that Joth would die if eevee died (assuming eevee targeted joth.)
But I do not see how Walrus would die (if he killed eevee). Can you explain that?

"Paranoid Hook Owning" would equal the Paranoid Gun Owner from mafiascum, i.e. any player targeting Eevee dies. ... which of course makes me wonder: why is Archetype still alive?

[xeiron]

Eevee was a babysitter, meaning he can protect, but if he is killed then his target is too. Plus any scum who targeted a kill at Eevee should have died.  So if Walrus shot Eevee, and Eevee protected Joth, they would all die. 

But Walrus has "good" in his name.  I think we need to ignore that and lynch Walrus anyway.

I looked up babysitter on mafiascum. I see that Joth would die if eevee died (assuming eevee targeted joth.)
But I do not see how Walrus would die (if he killed eevee). Can you explain that?

"Paranoid Hook Owning" would equal the Paranoid Gun Owner from mafiascum, i.e. any player targeting Eevee dies. ... which of course makes me wonder: why is Archetype still alive?

Right... Paranoid hook Owning. Missed that.

[EFHW]

I can't believe I didn't see this before.  If paranoid means what it does on mafiascum, then Archetype is lying.  He can't have targeted Eevee without being killed.

But why would scum!Archetype say Eevee targeted Joth?  Maybe because it was probably true, and would therefore be convincing?  He could have said Eevee targeted Walrus, to explain scum!Walrus's death, but two lies means two ways to get caught.

He couldn't say he targeted anyone alive, b/c everyone (except me) has a role that targets someone, and his targeting me would not make sense as a plausible choice.  He could have said he targeted joth, who was probably a psychologist and wouldn't have continuing effects of his targeting to contradict the lie.

I disagree about holding off on N2 results.  I don't see the advantage.

[EFHW]

So I expect Walrus to tell us now that he targeted Archetype, who was doctored and therefore didn't die.

[EFHW]

faust - According to Voltaire, being killed during the night means you get your new role at day start, so Walrus wouldn't have gotten to use his new power role last night.

[EFHW]

And I see now you had the same thought about Archetype.

[Voltaire]

Voltaire who did you try to cop?

I tried to target xeiron.

Can you walk me through why we need to lynch Walrus?

Archetype, can you walk me through why we need to lynch EFHW or myself (or no-lynch)?

I'm going to collect all our claims/actions in one place today unless someone else has already done so. I won't be able to get a handle back on this game until I see that.

[Voltaire]

I can't believe I didn't see this before.  If paranoid means what it does on mafiascum, then Archetype is lying.  He can't have targeted Eevee without being killed.

But why would scum!Archetype say Eevee targeted Joth?  Maybe because it was probably true, and would therefore be convincing?  He could have said Eevee targeted Walrus, to explain scum!Walrus's death, but two lies means two ways to get caught.

He couldn't say he targeted anyone alive, b/c everyone (except me) has a role that targets someone, and his targeting me would not make sense as a plausible choice.  He could have said he targeted joth, who was probably a psychologist and wouldn't have continuing effects of his targeting to contradict the lie.

I disagree about holding off on N2 results.  I don't see the advantage.

Walrus/Archetype scum team, victory then?

[faust]

faust - According to Voltaire, being killed during the night means you get your new role at day start, so Walrus wouldn't have gotten to use his new power role last night.

In my previous post, I meant "second action" as in "action besides his factional kill", not "second action" as in "action from his second role".

[Voltaire]

Both Eevee and joth have impossible-to-know actions. I see the speculation that Eevee is a PGO and I agree that is most likely but there almost certianly was some twist (I mean look at our roles) that I think we just have to swallow that we can't know.

[faust]

I know why Archetype claimed having targeted Eevee: Because he told xeiron he did before he saw the flip!

Here's what happened tonight: xeiron targeted Archetype, they got a QT together. Archetype, planning something, said he targeted Eevee. Only he can't, because that would mean he died, and he couldn't have died, because if he would, I would have died instead, as I targeted Archetype tonight.

Vote: Archetype

[Voltaire]

xeiron, is that true?

[faust]

xeiron, is that true?

It better is, because that's what he told me.

[Voltaire]

xeiron, is that true?

It better is, because that's what he told me.

Oh! Intent to vote Archetype once xeiron confirms, then.

[EFHW]

1.  Archetype probably targeted Voltaire, maybe with a roleblock?  What other scum power could he have used that doesn't kill?  -- Rolecop, but he doesn't really need that since we mass-claimed.  -- Some kind of redirection, which wouldn't have effect anyway since Voltaire's power would have been blocked.  -- Some delayed effect action, like poisoner or arsonist.

2.  Just to cover all the bases, if Archetype was poisoner, he could have targeted Eevee N1.  Then Walrus would be the nightkill. 

3.  Day 2 Archetype said that he saw Voltaire being targeted with killing, investigative, and protective actions.  Only the "protective" part was a gamble.  The others would have been obvious - Voltaire was killed and he was claiming to investigate him. 

4.  If faust is telling the truth about xeiron, then why did xeiron want to hold off on reporting results?

[EFHW]

Both Eevee and joth have impossible-to-know actions. I see the speculation that Eevee is a PGO and I agree that is most likely but there almost certianly was some twist (I mean look at our roles) that I think we just have to swallow that we can't know.

really?  REALLY?  This doesn't sound like you.  Usually you are eager to solve puzzles. 

[Voltaire]

Both Eevee and joth have impossible-to-know actions. I see the speculation that Eevee is a PGO and I agree that is most likely but there almost certianly was some twist (I mean look at our roles) that I think we just have to swallow that we can't know.

really?  REALLY?  This doesn't sound like you.  Usually you are eager to solve puzzles.

Paranoid Hook Owner - flavor name for PGO. Cool. But, and I have said this so many times before:

There is one facet of the game that some may consider to be bastard, however the mod ensures you that it has been accounted for and has been designed in such a way to make it not bastard. This game will feature of myriad of roles, some of these roles will be subject to or create misinformation. However there will be no mod lying.

as a result, I am not comfortable taking anything we have that is unexplained and going "oh, musta been Eevee then!" That said, Eevee's PGO had to have a twist. It had to have. Same with ash's "aid-requiring." If we think that this quote was only referring to the second lives thing, then we'd be fine. I personally don't think that's the case.

Where I'm going with this is, I'm approaching this more towards normal mafia than RMM mafia.

[faust]

I want to point out that we might be - in a way - at LyLo. If we don't lynch scum tonight (assuming 2 scum with 2 lives each), scum can kill one of us with only 1 life. Then there are five players left tomorrow. Even if we lynch correctly then, the scum player we lynch still has 1 life. Then scum kills one of us with 1 life in the night, and on the following Day, 4 players remain, 2 of which are scum.

Of course this doesn't consider role interactions, but I think should make clear that no lynch isn't an option.

PPE: 4

[yuma]

Vote Count 3.2

Archetype (1): faust

Not Voting (5): Archetype, xeiron, Walrus, Voltaire, EFHW

With six alive it takes four to lynch

Deadline for Day3 will be 8 days and will be February 26 at 7:00 pm forum time.

[EFHW]

Where I'm going with this is, I'm approaching this more towards normal mafia than RMM mafia.

Normal mafia would have even fewer twists and turns than RMM.  Someone caught in a lie would be lynched immediately.