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[Voltaire]

And the point xeiron makes about two vigs makes a lot of sense as well.

Agreed. vote: jotheonah.

xeiron, I was voting for you due to POEing everyone else and the fact you mostly talk about theory. Not the greatest reasons, but the best I had at the time. I'm not super-confident at all today right now, but I do like your point on joth very much.

[xeiron]

I will go with Vote: jotheonah as well.

That is {L-1}

[xeiron]

it looks like if Eevee does come back to life, it won't be until tomorrow. Guess the next thing is to look back at his posts and see if they yield any insights.

Another point against Jotheonah is this post.
It is almost as if he knows Eevees alignment, and forgot that the rest of us don't as eevee's alligment was not revealed in the flip.

Scumslip?

[faust]

jotheonah, if there's anything about your role you have been hiding, now might be a good time to tell us.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

faust, maybe your claim didn't help scum, but it didn't really help town either. Claiming D1 is an eager claim if there's no great reason for it that I can see, and then jumping in to claim for xeiron, while ostensibly a time-saver, also appears overeager to me in the context of a massclaim. I don't think that ash's alignment was in any way "obvious" D1 and the fact that you say so just sounds like gloating scum. The fact that you immediately defend against anything I throw at you is a null tell for me, as I've seen scum who get real touchy and scum who would sooner just ignore it.

I see that Eevee was dayvigged...interesting that he's out for the rest of the day. I think the allegations raised against joth are reasonable...his dayvig now was quite abrupt, and I didn't think about the point about the two vigs. So I guess joth is an ok lynch choice for today. I could hammer, but I'll give it until lunch at least (about 4 hours for me)

[EFHW]

I realize the "don't target me" thing looks fishy.  I still get surprised when people don't understand that I am obviously town!  OTOH, town is better off not targeting me. 

I don't have a case to make against anyone.  So scum is playing well.  If I go with my intuitions, it's vote: Walrus.  What is that based on, you might ask.  Not a lot is the answer.  MOre later.

[jotheonah]

Ugh. There are things I have been hiding. To whit: I have a second dayvig. Also I can choose to steal a power when I shoot.

Haven't read the whole case against me, but it's really easy to forget green doesn't mean town.

[jotheonah]

and xe, why are you voting for me? and also faust.

I think you used your power in a scummy way. You could have just waited. You jumping at xeiron only strengthen my perception. And the point xeiron makes about two vigs makes a lot of sense as well.

I can think of much scummier things to do than ask town who I should shoot and then shoot the person who seemed to have a consensus. I didn't want to wait too long or there wouldn't be time to act on/process the result.

Having claimed the power, I didn't see waiting as an option since I would just be night killed.

[Voltaire]

More power stealing? Mmmmmmm.

joth, why didn't you tell us that when you claimed? (I get not revealing a second dayvig)

[jotheonah]

I thought that scum might be more likely to lie about their powerful roles of they knew. I opted not to steal Eevee's power.

[faust]

I thought that scum might be more likely to lie about their powerful roles of they knew. I opted not to steal Eevee's power.

But you could have told us after the claim and before the vig.

Two vigs, one is likely scum. Two power-stealing roles, one is likely scum. I think jotheonah is a pretty decent lynch choice.

[faust]

Also, it was laid out that scum couldn't really lie about their roles if they wanted. So your defense for not claiming everything is weak.

[EFHW]

Sorry I had to go suddenly.  faust I disagree with your conclusions about jotheonah.  All these extra lives, we need to go through them somehow.  One nightvig and one dayvig seems plausible to me. 

About not telling us everything, there is a narrative where he could be scum wanting Eevee's role to neutralize some town powers.  Are there other roles scum would want more?  We really need a list, and i don't have time to make one right now. 

re: Walrus, I think what is giving me the scumread is that he has been equivocating a lot and sticking to noticing the obvious things.  I forgot to bold my vote before, so vote: Walrus.

[EFHW]

Also, faust used this logic successfully as scum in Modern Community.  (The idea that if there are two of a role and one is town, the other must be scum).

[faust]

re: Walrus, I think what is giving me the scumread is that he has been equivocating a lot and sticking to noticing the obvious things.  I forgot to bold my vote before, so vote: Walrus.

I have a bad feeling about Walrus as well, but why would he target Voltaire? That does not seem to make sense as a scum action.

[EFHW]

well, if he really protected Voltaire like Archetype said he did, then why was Voltaire shot anyway?

We could have a Walrus-Archetype team staging the whole "who targeted Voltaire" thing.  Walrus was the next to last person to answer (I was last).

Also, "Dumb Jock" could be anything.  This is what I was trying to say before about scum still having some room to lie.  The flip will say "Dumb Jock" and maybe "acts at random", and we might not know what powers go with it.   

[Voltaire]

Do you think Walrus/Archetype sets up such an elaborate fakeclaim, with no pre-planning if ash is the one who shot me? Which really has to be the case, because scum would be the only ones to know to shoot ash. I certainly don't, which is why I lean town on both of them.

I find it highly plausible ash was a vig who could only kill someone who was also targeted, as faust (and I) originally thought.

[EFHW]

I'm not saying this really happened, just that it is a plausible scum narrative.  They didn't need ash to shoot Voltaire for their plan to work.  It actually hinders their plan.  And we don't know what "aid-requiring" means.  Maybe it means someone had to target ashersky.  We don't want to make assumptions like that.

[Voltaire]

I'm not saying this really happened, just that it is a plausible scum narrative.  They didn't need ash to shoot Voltaire for their plan to work.  It actually hinders their plan.  And we don't know what "aid-requiring" means.  Maybe it means someone had to target ashersky.  We don't want to make assumptions like that.

Yes, it could also have meant that.

[EFHW]

The benefits of the plan would be that 1. we would be less likely to think of them as partners, since one is answering the other's question in thread, 2. it gets people talking about their roles and 3. Arch gives Walrus towncred, which gives Arch towncred. 

How do you explain the contradiction that Walrus supposedly protected you and you were shot anyway?

[Voltaire]

The benefits of the plan would be that 1. we would be less likely to think of them as partners, since one is answering the other's question in thread, 2. it gets people talking about their roles and 3. Arch gives Walrus towncred, which gives Arch towncred. 

How do you explain the contradiction that Walrus supposedly protected you and you were shot anyway?

I've been thinking of it as RMM, honestly. At the fact the we have so many "if target then" modifiers going around. But you're right, it does not make sense. I think I am having blinders on it since it centers around me.

[EFHW]

of course, that would make "protection" a bad lie for Archetype to tell, since it was contradicted.

[Voltaire]

Is anyone else a secret vig or something? (should that even be claimed?) Could I have been shot twice?

And honestly, EFHW, the reason I'm hesitant about all of this is also:

This game will feature of myriad of roles, some of these roles will be subject to or create misinformation. However there will be no mod lying.

[Voltaire]

of course, that would make "protection" a bad lie for Archetype to tell, since it was contradicted.

By Walrus? I'm confused.

[EFHW]

Since you were NOT protected, scum!Archetype wouldn't want to give scum!Walrus credit for having protected you.