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[faust]

Archetype, why did you target Voltaire?

[xeiron]

Since we're in a hurry, let me claim in xeiron's place.

xeiron is a Rolecopping Neighborizer. He targets one player each night, and creates a Neighborhood QT with them. The first post in this QT is by yuma, and will include a portion of of the role PM of the targeted player. The targeted player gets to know beforehand which portion of their PM will be quoted, and can choose to redact any parts from it that they wish.

Of course, xeiron targeted me last night. I think he is town because of that.

Confirming this.
I cannot quote the role PM snip, but the one I got from faust pretty much confirms the role he claimed back in D1.

I do also have a huge townread on faust after N1

[xeiron]

Killing cops is never good.
I still like shooting Eevee. He is essentially a roleblocker (maybe with some extra side effects, if there is some other mechanic  that cares about vanilla/not vanilla). Roleblocker is a common scum power.

[faust]

Killing cops is never good.
I still like shooting Eevee. He is essentially a roleblocker (maybe with some extra side effects, if there is some other mechanic  that cares about vanilla/not vanilla). Roleblocker is a common scum power.

I don't think we can argue along lines like "this role is likely scum" here, at least not with our primary roles. Remember ashersky, he had a really scummy role and was town. The way of thinking here is "which power would be too strong in scum hands" and "who used their power in a scummy way"?

[faust]

So it looks like this to me:

EFHW: used her power. Pretty null, as that would be a move I expect from both town and scum.

Voltaire: still think the way he used his first role was scummy. Now he claimed Cop, which makes me want to not lynch him. I hope we can confirm his role somehow. Voltaire is the only one of us who might have lied about his role though.

Eevee: It's a roleblocker+. decently strong for scum to have. Actually, quite strong. Makes me think it's less likely that Eevee is scum.

Archetype: Pretty null, targeting Voltaire with his role makes sense as any alignment I guess.

Walrus: Has a good reason to target Voltaire, though why did Voltaire die? Maybe it has something to do with ashersky's role ("Aid Required" maybe meaning the target only dies if someone else targets them as well)?

jotheonah: Dayvig is not too strong of a role to have for scum in this setup I think. Whether he uses it in a pro-town fashion remains to be seen.

xeiron: Has a role that is quite plausible for scum, especially the rolecopping part. But the fact that he targeted me makes me think it's less likely that he is scum, because scum would aleady know that he's telling the truth.

Out of everyone, I think I still like EFHW best as dayvig target. Maybe Archetype, but I think i he tells the truth, he might be useful for confirming Voltaire. Voltaire is possible, as is Eevee, but I like the other two better.

[Eevee]

I didn't use my role last night. I only have two shots and can't block kills, I thought the best utility would come later in the game.

[Eevee]

I think my role makes Voltaire's initial role scummier - vanillazer is relatively weak in town's hands but is something scum would really want. I hadn't realized this before.

[faust]

Eevee, EFHW, a question: Assume Eevee targets EFHW tonight, will there still be negative effects?

Let me rephrase this as a mod question.

If a Vanillaiser targets a role that has effects triggered on targeting, will these effects take place?

[faust]

I am toying with the idea of giving everyone a night target that can be confirmed by others. Only Voltaire will be free to target whoever he wants. I'll try to make the rest of us target each other in a way such that, should anyone not play their part, we will be notified of this. So we can make sure that Voltaire gets an investigation.

[faust]

Does Vanillaising take place before or after Commuting?

[faust]

Something like this might work:

faust bodyguards Voltaire
Eevee vanillaises faust
Archetype investigates Eevee
Walrus protects Archetype
xeiron rolecops Walrus

jotheonah does nothing (you don't have a night action, right?)
EFHW commutes or doesn't commute.

This is of course not yet including our lynch. But if it works, most people can confirm one other player's action, so scum can't secretly target Voltaire.

[Voltaire]

I still like shooting Eevee. He is essentially a roleblocker (maybe with some extra side effects, if there is some other mechanic  that cares about vanilla/not vanilla). Roleblocker is a common scum power.

I agree with this.

Faust is now basically IC to me with xeiron's result. Trying to sort through the other claims. The one that sticks out right now is if Walrus targeted me how did I die? Though I am wondering if this would explain ash's "aid-required" portion - if he had the opposite of my role (can only vig if someone also targets his target) that could make sense.

Though I suppose it would have to go through Walrus still...

[Voltaire]

And now I see faust said the exact same thing. That's what I get for catching up piecemeal. 

[Voltaire]

I think my role makes Voltaire's initial role scummier - vanillazer is relatively weak in town's hands but is something scum would really want. I hadn't realized this before.

My original role was a way to preserve mislynched PRs. That's clearly the design intent.

[Voltaire]

I am toying with the idea of giving everyone a night target that can be confirmed by others. Only Voltaire will be free to target whoever he wants. I'll try to make the rest of us target each other in a way such that, should anyone not play their part, we will be notified of this. So we can make sure that Voltaire gets an investigation.

I think I am ok with this...because everyone has to have told the truth about their roles. ie scum manipulation should be caught out in any good plan. I'm the only one who theoretically could have lied, so of course it makes sense to me. Anything that gives confidence to my results is good.

[xeiron]

Something like this might work:

faust bodyguards Voltaire
Eevee vanillaises faust
Archetype investigates Eevee
Walrus protects Archetype
xeiron rolecops Walrus

jotheonah does nothing (you don't have a night action, right?)
EFHW commutes or doesn't commute.

This is of course not yet including our lynch. But if it works, most people can confirm one other player's action, so scum can't secretly target Voltaire.

I am a little sceptical about this plan.
The Eevee, faust interaction sounds like a smart move, but it will not work if we kill eevee, as I think we should.

I think both Walrus and Archetype should be free to investigate who they wants. No need to tell scum who to make sure will not do the kill.
Walrus has 2/3 chance of protecting and 2/3 chance of roleblocking, so it works well for him to target both scum and town.
You have not included Voltaire, and I agree that he also should be free.

Is there a reason for me to target Walrus?, if not, I would like to target someone alse. Maybe Archetype.

[xeiron]

I am toying with the idea of giving everyone a night target that can be confirmed by others. Only Voltaire will be free to target whoever he wants. I'll try to make the rest of us target each other in a way such that, should anyone not play their part, we will be notified of this. So we can make sure that Voltaire gets an investigation.

I think I am ok with this...because everyone has to have told the truth about their roles. ie scum manipulation should be caught out in any good plan. I'm the only one who theoretically could have lied, so of course it makes sense to me. Anything that gives confidence to my results is good.

The main problem with Faust's plan is that both EFHW and Jotheonah is free to kill without being caught if they are scum.
I rather like that there would be a risk for scum whoever use their factional kill. This can be done by having Archetype target freely.

[faust]

I am toying with the idea of giving everyone a night target that can be confirmed by others. Only Voltaire will be free to target whoever he wants. I'll try to make the rest of us target each other in a way such that, should anyone not play their part, we will be notified of this. So we can make sure that Voltaire gets an investigation.

I think I am ok with this...because everyone has to have told the truth about their roles. ie scum manipulation should be caught out in any good plan. I'm the only one who theoretically could have lied, so of course it makes sense to me. Anything that gives confidence to my results is good.

The main problem with Faust's plan is that both EFHW and Jotheonah is free to kill without being caught if they are scum.
I rather like that there would be a risk for scum whoever use their factional kill. This can be done by having Archetype target freely.

Well, it would be great though to have a situation where we can say exactly who lied if Voltaire can't use his action. I guess that means we can have one role act freely though. Your action is confirmable no matter who you target, so that's no problem.

Alternative plan:

faust targets Voltaire
Eevee targets faust
Walrus targets xeiron


The rest are free to do whatever they please. Works only if we keep Eevee alive of course. But I'm getting a townie vibe there, so that's not a problem.

[faust]

Scratch that actually, let's just lynch/vig Voltaire. His role is no use to us, and could easily be a lie. Add that I found him scummy before.

Vote: Voltaire

[xeiron]

So it looks like this to me:

EFHW: used her power. Pretty null, as that would be a move I expect from both town and scum.

Voltaire: still think the way he used his first role was scummy. Now he claimed Cop, which makes me want to not lynch him. I hope we can confirm his role somehow. Voltaire is the only one of us who might have lied about his role though.

Eevee: It's a roleblocker+. decently strong for scum to have. Actually, quite strong. Makes me think it's less likely that Eevee is scum.

Archetype: Pretty null, targeting Voltaire with his role makes sense as any alignment I guess.

Walrus: Has a good reason to target Voltaire, though why did Voltaire die? Maybe it has something to do with ashersky's role ("Aid Required" maybe meaning the target only dies if someone else targets them as well)?

jotheonah: Dayvig is not too strong of a role to have for scum in this setup I think. Whether he uses it in a pro-town fashion remains to be seen.

xeiron: Has a role that is quite plausible for scum, especially the rolecopping part. But the fact that he targeted me makes me think it's less likely that he is scum, because scum would aleady know that he's telling the truth.

Out of everyone, I think I still like EFHW best as dayvig target. Maybe Archetype, but I think i he tells the truth, he might be useful for confirming Voltaire. Voltaire is possible, as is Eevee, but I like the other two better.

I agree that eevee has a strong role for scum, but not too strong this is essentially a 18-player game, and if there are 4 scum, they need strong powers to keep up.
It is not so strong for town, though. It would be worse to miskill EFHW, than Eevee.

[faust]

I agree that eevee has a strong role for scum, but not too strong this is essentially a 18-player game, and if there are 4 scum, they need strong powers to keep up.
It is not so strong for town, though. It would be worse to miskill EFHW, than Eevee.

Why? I don't think EFHW's role is particularly strong.

[xeiron]

Scratch that actually, let's just lynch/vig Voltaire. His role is no use to us, and could easily be a lie. Add that I found him scummy before.

Vote: Voltaire

I disagree. His role is very useful, except if the mafia kills him.

We are better off not lynching him.
If he is killed during the night, it's a mislynch we do not have to make.
If he goes untouched, he will give us a useful result.

[xeiron]

I agree that eevee has a strong role for scum, but not too strong this is essentially a 18-player game, and if there are 4 scum, they need strong powers to keep up.
It is not so strong for town, though. It would be worse to miskill EFHW, than Eevee.

Why? I don't think EFHW's role is particularly strong.

But it is negative utility for town to target her.

[xeiron]

I say Vote: eevee

[faust]

Scratch that actually, let's just lynch/vig Voltaire. His role is no use to us, and could easily be a lie. Add that I found him scummy before.

Vote: Voltaire

I disagree. His role is very useful, except if the mafia kills him.

We are better off not lynching him.
If he is killed during the night, it's a mislynch we do not have to make.
If he goes untouched, he will give us a useful result.

There are two possibilities:

1) We do not target Voltaire. Scum can easily kill him off if they think he's a threat.
2) We protect Voltaire. He does not get any results.

So how is his role useful?