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[Witherweaver]

You're thinking it's possible that Faust and I constructed the thing on Day 2?

[Ampharos]

You're thinking it's possible that Faust and I constructed the thing on Day 2?

This is the primary hinge upon which you are either scum or are not.

[Ampharos]

Do you mind giving me a list of who you tracked each day and the result?  I haven't written it down, but that will definitely help to look at that in retrospect.

[Ampharos]

You're thinking it's possible that Faust and I constructed the thing on Day 2?

This is the primary hinge upon which you are either scum or are not.

This really should read "one of the primary hinges".  There are other good ways of telling, like my above request.  Not EVERYTHING lies on the possibility of you two faking it.

[Witherweaver]

Do you mind giving me a list of who you tracked each day and the result?  I haven't written it down, but that will definitely help to look at that in retrospect.

Night 1: Hydrad -> No Motion Detected
Night 2: e -> Motion Detected  (originally received no motion detected, but that was corrected by Ash)
Night 3: Faust -> Motion Detected
Night 4: Hydrad -> No Motion Detected
Night 5: Ampharos -> No Motion Detected

[Ampharos]

Thanks.  Thinking it over and waiting to hear from Hydrad.

[Hydrad]

At work so just a phone post. Will post more later.

Basically I think I'm leaning amp for being the last scum. I'm having a hard time seeing ww as scum. Also I hate this part of Mafia the most.

[Hydrad]

oh boy. so here we are. mylo again. but this is the final one.

so its between amp or ww. I guess I'll give reasons for why I think its amp instead of ww.

ww had his fight between faust and him so that would be really weird if they are both scum.
ww also both last night and this night didn't claim an inciminating result on someone to try to get them lynched. I feel like scum would  make up a lie to get the last lynch through at this point.
he just feels townish.

amp is basically POE here. I didn't really think he was towny early but then he got a town result on him early and after that I kinda forgot about him.

weird things. WW was left alive. so it looks like amp wasn't worried about getting investigated by WW. I guess e was more towny? I dunno I actually suspected e more then WW.
I guess theres still the chance that WW is scum but it just doesn't really add up to me.

hmm well actually WW tried to get teproc lynched. wait no that was over egork right? thats not really super scummy then. For a second I thought it was when teproc was vs faust at mylo.
So ya WW seems safe... like uh. 82% town.

thats my post for now. I'll probably try to get a reread done at some point but I'm leaving again for tonight.

[Ampharos]

I've typed, erased, typed, erased, and typed for about half an hour. 

Going to bed now, will read this again with a fresh view in the morning. 

Other townie, whoever you are, don't vote please.  Just don't.

[Witherweaver]

I'm not voting for a while.

No one vote for me.  It should be obvious, but don't.

[Ampharos]

This thread is REALLY FREAKING LONG.  Like holy cow a re-read takes forever.

Here’s some relevant stuff I found when rereading. 

I just thought of a point against shooting, or at least publicly announcing.  If scum has any kind of redirection, bus driving, whatever, they can essentially control Yuma's kill.

Nobody else had brought this up at this point.  Does WW just randomly guess scum might have a bus driver, or does he know?

———

Awaclus wagon votes (starting from 0 current votes, goes all the way to lynch):

1239: faust votes Awaclus
1242: ww votes Awaclus
1243: iguana votes Awaclus

This starts the wagon, and are the first 3 votes.

Hydrad stays offwagon.

Would scum team REALLY do that?  Would they be that ballsy?  More likely imo they keep one off.

————

Day 2: Iguana and Faust fight a bit.  Like a lot of back and forth.

Then Faust goes and votes WW in the middle of this.  Would he really try two in-team fight gambits at once? 

Maybe… he is Faust after all. 

———

Climax of faust vs ww :

Faust says he has a result. 

ww posts 3 times in rapid succession, instead of once.  This seems much more indicative of emotional responses, posting them as they come. it reads more towney, and I’d expect scum to have a better written response.

Hydrad shows up after a bit and releases a flurry of posts.  He doesn’t even seem to delve into why faust is doing what he’s doing and just writes about how WW might be bad.

———

Why did you target me, Faust?

Would scum WW be this aware to ask this?  It seems a town thing to say.

———

WW, why did you target Hydrad ?

Originally I submitted Yuma, the thought being in that he could potentially be caught in a lie, or possibly half verify his claim.  (Say, he claimed to use his power but there was only one kill, and not from him.)  I decided to change it, though.  My main thought on Hydrad was that he was the kind of guy to claim VT as scum in a game like this.   He was also not very present yesterday and I had no indication towards town or scum.   He'd probably be one of the more likely people to perform a kill on the scum team, too, with getting little attention.

I also expected Yuma to shoot, and I figured the kill flavor would verify him, so my result wouldn't mean a lot.

thats... pretty accurate. I think i usually end up being the one with dirty hands when I'm on the scum team.

Hydrad saying when he’s scum, he’s usually making the kills.  He’s obviously not making them this game, and this right here sounds off.

————

Iguana goes hard after faust during all of day 2.  Faust is clearly trying to get WW dead.  So let’s say WW dies and is scum, faust looks good.  Iguana looks like scum for going after Faust.   That play just isn’t worth it.

———

You know what?

Vote: Hydrad

He is scummy, and a flip here just might help you all realize that WW is indeed lying.

Okay, that was scummy.

Vote: Hydrad

and later…

So Hydrad is just a mix of null and scummy throughout the entire game. There are a lot of unexplained votes, a lot of "let's kill this person for information" posts, and a really heavy use of the word interesting as a sole commentary on things happening.

I think the only reason I wasn't voting for him before is WW's claim.

Vote: Hydrad

Right, Hydrad is better than Haddock.

Vote: Hydrad

Scum really seems to want Hydrad dead… they’ve been infighting all game though, so this isn’t out of place.

————

Really leaning towards Hydrad being the scum.  WW’s investigations check.  Hydrad as goon, not submitting kill.  e as being investigated by Teproc.  faust is bus driving people.  Hydrad still not making kill, iguana must have.  I’m obviously not doing anything. 

There is some busdriving potential in there, but it all checks out.  I’m pretty confident that Hydrad is the scum.

Not voting yet; would rather talk it out a bit more.

[Ampharos]

Alllll byyyyy myyyyysellfffff, don't wanna be, alllll byyyy myyyyselllllfff

[Ampharos]

*jeopardy theme song plays on endless loop*

[Hydrad]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


doo

[Hydrad]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


doo

no wait. ignore that for a few minutes. i failed.

[Hydrad]

------------------------------------------------------------
         doo                                 doo

doo            doo               doo                doooo

                           doo

-------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------
                                         dooo
                                                  do
          doo               doo                      do
                                                              do
                                                                     do
                                                                            do
doo                doo



-------------------------------------------------------------------


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         doo                                 doo

doo            doo               doo                doooo

                           doo

--------------------------------------------------------------------

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dooo
         do
               doo
                        doo
                                  doo
                                            doo
                                                       doo
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[Hydrad]

but as for content I should actually have time tomorrow. as I don't work tomorrow. wooo.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, I will try to get through some amount of a reread today.  Things have been quite busy for me lately. 

Ampharos sounds more town here.  Hydrad sounds a bit resigned. (In the last actual 'content' post.)

[Witherweaver]

So Hydrad stuff:

woo I'm here!

Vote: e

anyways Its a good thing yuma got that role instead of me... I'd totally just roll the dice every night if I got it and hope for the best. I think it would be super fun.

As for believing the claim and stuff. I believe it for now. currently I can't think of as many good reasons why scum!yuma would claim it. but then maybe scum!yuma knew i would think that! noooo.

but ya I believe the claim for now.

I brought this up before.  The first post betrays an implicit assumption that Yuma is telling the truth, which only scum would know.  The second is some run-of-the-mill hedging.

Vote: ss instead.

I think for some people it could be considered a slight scum tell. I think for iguana I can't consider it a scum tell anymore.

PPE:3

Somewhat interesting here because Iguana is scum.  Were both Silver and Iguana town, I might think (the scum narrative for this) is white knighting by way of offense. 

... I wish we had more common vote counts.  Maybe I should become one of those guys that does them himself.  It helps for reread to see things like how much pressure were Iguana/Silver under at this point.  It was fairly early into the day.


Much much posts through Day 1 are fluff; I won't quote them. 

iguana trying to get people in gear. thats good. I like iguana here. you get 5 town points. Now how strong are these town points? I have no idea as I haven't created the scale yet but I assure you its good.

Does Hydrad say this about his partners?  Well, early Hydrad maybe not.. current Hydrad possibly.  I do remember he was part of the team with me and Teproc where we decided we wanted to display strong partner interactions and reads.

I forget if I said it somewhere before already but I still believe yuma and think hes town.

More certainty of town!Yuma.

I suppose Yuma's role could be a scum role.. you get a random extra kill, so actually better for you than for town, though it has a chance of hurting you.  Though, that harm is pretty major.  Yuma is the type of guy that would claim it, as scum, for town credit.  Except, the role as it's claimed is almost not usable for Town, so if scum!Yuma ever does use it it's pretty suspect.  So then the it comes down to just trying to make himself a named townie. 

At any rate, these kinds of early claims are by and large from town, not scum.  Also well within town!Yuma meta.

That would be a weird scum role I feel like. I maybe it would be something like randomly shoot a towny. I could see that. But randomly shooting anyone as a scum PR feels weird. But who knows I've never modded really or designed so I have no idea on what I'm talking about.

"I have nothing to say, but I need to keep posting!"

Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.

But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...

lets go Vote: Iguana

Alright here is something.  Here SS wagon is taking off, and I don't think anyone is talking about Iguana.  I can see this as a bus.  A bit later:

Vote: amp

Vote count after:

Vote Count 1.9:

silverspawn (1): Haddock
Ampharos (3): ss, faust, Hydrad
faust (1): Ampharos
EgorK (3): iguana, RR, Teproc
RR (1): EgorK
yuma (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (2): WW, 2.7

Not Voting (1): yuma

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on December 8 at 9:00 a.m. forum time.

 
And finally a reads list:

Hydrad read list time!

0 = IC  10 = IS? hmm that doesn't work 10 is scum.

1. Witherweaver  4.2: reason? uh I dunno I guess I don't have any real townie vibes from you.
2. yuma  7.3: Man I almost never break the 7 barrier with these unless they are actual IC's. Basically I feel like yumas telling the truth.
3. silverspawn 3.9: usually you seem towny to me. You feel different this game
4. Teproc 5.1: Uh sure you can be super slight town. Honestly I don't fully remember much of your stances or anything. Sorry
5. iguanaiguana 5.4: You seem to be making sense.
6. Hydrad 123445542: wow I trrust this guy. Hes also probably the strongest player in the entire game and if hes wrong its obviously because he doesn't want to ruin the game for the rest of you by finding the whole scum team instantly. What a kind person.
7. Roadrunner7671 6.1: seems like town RR
8. 2.7... 5.7: I've been liking him a bunch more since he started posting.
9. faust 6.3: I'm getting towny vibes from faust this game.
10. Ampharos 3.7: Playstyle is weird. Now I don't think I can lynch him on just playstyle but I also don't get towny vibes from his posts.
11. EgorK 4.8: I don't remember enough about you either... Sorry!
12. Awaclus 4.4: I remember even less of you... but for being awaclus you just get around a -.5 automatically. Sorry its what happens when I have no way to read you.
13. Haddock 5.3: I don't remember specifics about what you've been posting but I think I remember getting goodish feelings from it.

Well, Iguana and Faust right in the middle, Faust slight town.  Lots of use of "towny vibes" or the like.  Anyway, posting this now to prevent risking losing it.  Will continue.

[Witherweaver]

well awaclus's lynch at worst gives us info on who has been defending him and stuff. So i think awaclus lynch here is ok also.

Scummy, as Silver rightly points out.  And that actually brings us to the end of Day 1. 

One thing maybe pointing towards Hydrad's favor is that the previous reads list is somewhat inconsistent with his previous claims.  He had said before that Iguana was quite scummy and I was at least somewhat townie, then I move to scummy and Iguana to townie.  But maybe that's the only example.  I think the numbers actually work to confuse the list.  What we have is more like:

Scum:
Ampharos
Silverspawn

Slight Scum:
Witherweaver
Awaclus
EgorK

Null:
Teproc
Iguana
Haddock

Slight Town:
e

Town:
Faust
Yuma
RR


Well, written that way it is suspiciously balanced.

[Witherweaver]

Day 2.

Vote: amp

Staying consistent.

I'm townish on Ampharos now.

Great, that's step 1. Step 2 is voting for faust. There are other acceptable options, I'll let you try and find them by yourself.

Interesting. I've only read up to here but I'm curious how big the faust wagon gets. It feels like people are slowly gravitating to it.

Hedgey, par the course.  There were dozens of posts like this on Day 1 that I didn't quote.

ok I'm caught up. also the WW images actually got a laugh out of me so +1 there.

Now for what to do. I personally don't see an issue with the same time claim. But I'm really interested why WW doesn't seem to like it. Its either a scum attempt to try to live longer or... hmmm... I'm trying to think why would town do this.

In my opinion I don't think a VT would be so reluctent to claim. So I feel it might be a PR. But at the same time it sounds like WW has a thought of why faust could have an incriminating result on him and it be wrong? I can't think of how that would happen really at all from and PR's I know of. other then just redirection stuff.

This doesn't really make much sense to me for town!WW.

So I'm in favor of both claim at same time or WW first I guess.

Quite a bit of hedging to land on me slightly more scummy than Faust.

OK I think I'll go with

Vote: WW

Redirecting from me to ss. doesn't really make sense at all for scum. I don't really see why they would do that.

The only way I see it working is if like scum wanted to kill ss but had a busdriver ability and swapped me with silver? I don't really see many other options.

also no I did not take any actions.

Ends up on me after all the actual claiming.  Never votes Faust, who actually was in danger of getting lynched.

Ok I'm feeling better about leaving WW/faust alive for now and seeing if things don't add up later on also.

Now for who else to vote... muhahahhaha.

Vote: Egork and I believe L-1

Fervor for me/Faust from the town has died down, and Hydrad complies. 

Okay, that was scummy.

Vote: Hydrad

It was.

So now that egork looks like it isn't happening I guess I need to find someone new as lynch is tomorrow? I'll double check on that.

and

ya pretty much tommorow. and teproc vs e currently. sounds fun!

Vote: Teproc

Well he presents this as arbitrary, and for scum!him it would be. 

This pretty much ends Day 2.  Hydrad is off, and an RR lynch ends up happening out of lunacy.

[Witherweaver]

Gauge everyone's reactions, it's my last gift to the town who stabbed me in the back.

Ha, I finally now made sense of this.  RR was actually trying to do something with the scum claim. 

[ashersky]

Vote Count 6.1:

Not Voting (3): Ampharos, witherweaver, Hydrad

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

[Witherweaver]

How long do we have?

[Ampharos]

So ww, we both seem to think it's Hydrad.  That makes the most sense.

I'm bothered by the potential that you're scum and have pulled off a series of miraculous and dastardly plays.  However, Hydrad's whatever he's been doing all game is legitimately throwing me off and making it really hard to convict him for his play alone since it's so random, but it's also making it basically impossible for me to view the situation in any other light than you being town since he's not really doing anything to clear himself and hasn't all game.  Basically, there's too much that has happened involving you that hasn't come back to bite you, and almost nothing implying Hydrad should be viewed as town.  I have almost nothing to go on for a legit Hydrad scum case either.  I really hate this scenario, but I'm basically forced to kill him due to his random play and the fact that nothing ever pressured him significantly and forced him to shake it up.  I'm kind of hoping that's what happens right now. 

I almost want to just vote Hydrad now and let you do the honors either way, but I'm holding out hoping I get something more from Hydrad, because I'm still really nervous you're the final mafia who has played a perfect game.  If that's the case, there's just no real way of preventing you from winning, because I'm pretty sure I have to side with you.