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[Galzria]

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Vig's should not shoot under any circumstances, until there's absolute necessity for them to do so. They are nothing but a plague on the town.

That said, I don't give Robz much credit for standing firm on the issue. It's something that he and I both feel strongly about. How many games has town won when a Vig shot? The only one that comes to mind is my shot in M-VI - which happened to coincide with the SK shot anyway so was moot (although my other two choices, Theorel and Robz, were both scum that game as well).

Robz, being the most vocal, stands out the most in my reread.

First, his very quick, early vote is extremely uncharacteristic of him. Especially because he didn't cast it over what he would classify as a scummy read, but instead over someone disagreeing with him. Robz - do you really think that Theorel is scum?

Second, the "he likes playing scum" argument. I don't think that's all that solid of a case. I mean, I can't speak for everyone, but I too enjoy playing scum more. I still would have advocated not restarting if possible. RVS sucks, and getting past it can often times be a real challenge. To do it twice in one game? No thank you. Besides, in order to get the roles you like playing, you have to play the roles you don't like.

Third, Robz "buddying" - I believe it was Cuzz who said that it seemed more a scum Robz thing to say "Wow, great point, just not true this time" - and you're right that it used to be that way. Buddying Robz used to equal scummy Robz every time. Now it's a bit more null. Take RMM3 for example, where as the town thief, his response to those saying he had stolen the Ice Cream was "I didn't, but I absolutely see why you think that I did it, and in your shoes I would be voting me as well". I know Robz went through a long streak of being lynched or NK'd on the first day, and he had a long talk with Volt about what he was doing wrong. Since then I've noticed a few small changes. First, he's appearing more care-free - by pushing less solid cases or weaker ideas - and second by being a lot less confrontational. The "yeah, you're probably right" response is becoming much more commonplace.

In regards to this game, and his overall persona, there are enough things that stick out that leave me questioning his townitude. However, those aren't my biggest concerns at this point. While Robz is actively "slightly-scummy", there are others who are far, far less active to date, and the lack of participation stands out much more severely to me than Robz participation does at this time.

[Galzria]

Oh, and Hi.

[Robz888]

The vote on Theorel: I wanted to dramatize my opposition to his pro-Vig policies, so I added a vote.

[Axxle]

And your vote is still there.

I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?

[Robz888]

And your vote is still there.

I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?

I don't find him particularly scummy, if that's what you're getting at.

And no I hadn't noticed that vote on him was still there. I didn't see past the massive pile of votes on me.

Unvote

[Robz888]

It's become that there are 2 RVS stages at the beginning of every game: the Random Voting Stage, and then the Robz Voting Stage, where everybody votes for Robz.

[Axxle]

Rereading my own post, I was unclear: to clarify it felt like he was trying to provoke other players into fighting amongst themselves, not provoking them to fight with him.

His votes were in response to votes on other players (on the voter), which makes it seem like he's trying to encourage the votee to OMGUS.  Reading the post I quoted from that perspective, it felt like he was trying to get cayvie to fight with Robz also...but as I said rereading with a different mindset (i.e. looking for proof) significantly weakens that feeling...making me believe it had more to do with bias than anything else.

I was being terse because I usually am.  I was a bit harsher than usual since fights and seeing others prodding for information from me and others helps me develop reads.

[Axxle]

And your vote is still there.

I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?

I don't find him particularly scummy, if that's what you're getting at.

And no I hadn't noticed that vote on him was still there. I didn't see past the massive pile of votes on me.

Unvote

Have you developed any scummy reads?

[Robz888]

You seem more provoking than usual.

[Axxle]

Is that scummy?

[Axxle]

And are you dodging the question? It's a legitimate one.

[Robz888]

Is that scummy?

I think so.

[Robz888]

And are you dodging the question? It's a legitimate one.

Dodging questions? I've done nothing but answer questions since this thread started up.

[Axxle]

Have you developed any scummy reads?

[Axxle]

Have you developed any scummy reads?

Well before my line of questioning, obv.

[Axxle]

Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:

I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.

[Robz888]

Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:

I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.

Watno.

[Cuzz]

Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:

I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.

Watno.

Galz?

[Galzria]

Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:

I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.

Watno.

Galz?

Hmm, interesting.

[Cuzz]

Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:

I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.

Watno.

Galz?

Hmm, interesting.

What do you mean?

[Axxle]

Better question: Who was your strongest scumread at this point:

I would prefer NOT to restart, just because it's annoying, and I'm already formulating some reads, man.

Watno.

Has your read changed since then?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.4

Robz888 (3): Captain_Frisk, Axxle, Cuzz
Cuzz (1): yuma
Eevee (1): cayvie
Axxle (1): theorel

Not Voting (5): Abra655, Eevee, Galzria, Jimmmmm, Lekkit, raerae, Robz888

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on Thursday, December 20, at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

[cayvie]

Here's a theory: Robz is a Serial Killer.

He comes straight out of the blocks saying "Don't vig!", knowing of course that there will be at least one extra night-kill each night, and then he can act indignant each morning because some Vigilante isn't toeing the line. "Why do you keep killing our Townies?" he demands. "I told you not to vig!" Meanwhile he looks very Town because he warned us all that this was going to happen, but someone didn't listen.

Having said that, I actually think he's probably Town, although I don't have any stronger reads so he's still my number 1 suspect.

oh i'm going to like playing with you

this is exactly the type of theory i like

[Galzria]

Here are the four posts that I made before becoming "me". Robz named Watno (after much teeth pulling by Axxle to put forth a name), but didn't offer up any reason for his suspicion.

Directly to Axxle's question and point, Robz said he didn't want to restart the game because he was already building reads. That particular quote was made prior to the last Watno quote, so in truth if Watno was his biggest scum read, it was based on only the first three quotes only.

Additionally, I find it interesting that Robz would be willing to place his vote on Theorel over a disagreement, admitting that he didn't, and doesn't, find Theorel himself scummy - yet it took so long to unvote, and further, took quite a time to hey him to say who his actual scum reads are on - although he's not voting those reads.

It just doesn't feel all that genuine. Feels like he grabbed a name and threw it out there.

I'm up.

I think we shouldn't be discussing the power role distribution now, since the probablities of stuff being in are different for those who have a power role.

I agree with Eevee here. The vigs-should-shoot-as-often-as-possible philosophy isn't new, and I remember it being discussed before. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, but it makes no sense to vote someone for a different opinion on that matter, since it is unlikely to be related to his alignment. I think its well possible that Robz is trying to make use of people thinking that scum wouldn't start off the game by expressing a controversial opinion on a meta-matter (I think Eevee was obvtown because of something similar in some ZM, and no robz might be trying to emulate it).
So vote: Robz until there's something better.

I think trying to provoke fights is a good thing. People fighting are way more likely to say something they shouldn't have said as scum.

@Mods: Can you clarify wether the proabilities of outcomes of the role distribution were affected by the mistake?

[Cuzz]

Here are the four posts that I made before becoming "me". Robz named Watno (after much teeth pulling by Axxle to put forth a name), but didn't offer up any reason for his suspicion.

Directly to Axxle's question and point, Robz said he didn't want to restart the game because he was already building reads. That particular quote was made prior to the last Watno quote, so in truth if Watno was his biggest scum read, it was based on only the first three quotes only.

Additionally, I find it interesting that Robz would be willing to place his vote on Theorel over a disagreement, admitting that he didn't, and doesn't, find Theorel himself scummy - yet it took so long to unvote, and further, took quite a time to hey him to say who his actual scum reads are on - although he's not voting those reads.

It just doesn't feel all that genuine. Feels like he grabbed a name and threw it out there.

I agree with most of this. I also take issue with the quote below. Do people really forget who their vote is on? It's just more confusing than anything.

And your vote is still there.

I know you said earlier you've been forming reads already, what's your read on theorel?

I don't find him particularly scummy, if that's what you're getting at.

And no I hadn't noticed that vote on him was still there. I didn't see past the massive pile of votes on me.

Unvote