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[Teproc]

Every time I think I have something to say,Galzria says it better.

Matt Smith was great at the comedy aspect of Doctor Who, but whenever he tried to be serious, it didn't work for me.

[EFHW]

A lot of times the madcap fooling around seemed directly related to his shaking off bad thoughts,  in a kind of desperate way, really.

[Davio]

You don't even need to look back that far. One of the best examples in recent history is 'Blink'.

1) Doctor receives a script of questions and answers
2) Doctor gets trapped back in time
3) Doctor creates 'Easter Eggs' with his portion of the script
4) Sparrow asks the questions on the script, based off the answers the Doctor has recorded.
5) Sparrow provides Doctor with Script

If the Doctor doesn't have the script before he gets trapped, he can't get back - yet the script can't be made unless it already existed TO be made.

Timey-Wimey, Wibbly-Wobbly of course. And that's all you have here as well. A -> B -> C -> A.

I still don't understand.

Imagine that time is like an infinitely high apartment building.
Every floor is a certain point in time. So the person that's typing this is the one living on floor number 25th of September 2014 10:49 UTC+2.

This building has elevators, allowing the people in them to time travel to other floors / points in time.
I see a future self arriving on my floor and he gives me a gold watch.

Where does this watch come from? Because I both give it and got it, it has always existed, materializing out of thin air?

And if history is fixed and you can't change it (you can only cause things to happen), then by extrapolation, the future is fixed as well. Assuming I got the gold watch from my future self, I know that at some point in the future, I have to go back in time and give myself the watch. So the time line is fixed all the way, from the beginning of time, until the end of time.

[Kuildeous]

You raise good points, but time paradoxes are hard to film while making the plot interesting, moreso in multiple episodes.

In many instances, I just shut off that portion of the brain when they get into time travel plots because I know that their explanation isn't going to be good enough so I might as well just take it at face value. It's my defense mechanism. If I didn't have it, then I wouldn't be able to enjoy Doctor Who, Back to the Future, or Terminator.

I finally got to watch Listen and the Time Heist this week. I really enjoyed both of these episodes and feel better about the series since watching the Robot Hood episode.

Listen had an atmosphere similar to the Silence. I enjoyed that feeling, and it had some clever nuanced humor, such as the Doctor taking the coffee cup. Also, I started to get a little bit interested in the Clara/Dan relationship. Despite liking this episode overall, a couple of things did bug me. Why did no one in the restaurant notice the man in the space suit? I had thought that like all things Who, this was one of those things that happen that others can't see, but there's no indication that their descendant (presumably) shouldn't be seen, especially in that get-up. Also, while there was neat closure with the Doctor's obsession with the dream, it doesn't really explain the missing chalk at the end of the opening monologue. The creature on the bed could indeed be another child playing a joke, and I love how ambiguous they left that, but what's the deal with the chalk, unless he's gone all Tyler Durden on us (which could be interesting).

Time Heist had all the whimsy that I liked about the show. It reminds me of my first time watching. I started watching at 11th Hour. Shortly after that (the second episode?) was the episode with the space whales. The Zoltar-like machines throughout the colony that acted as judge, jury, and executioner. Time Heist had that same feeling with such absurd situations. The whole story is very reminiscent of Dick's Paycheck, which is one my favorite stories.

[Kirian]

I see a future self arriving on my floor and he gives me a gold watch.

Where does this watch come from? Because I both give it and got it, it has always existed, materializing out of thin air?

Possibly, but likely not.  The watch he's giving you now will likely be at least slightly beaten up by the time you become future you; obviously, future you is going to have to go out and buy a new watch.  Paradoxes like this one rarely (though not never) involve physical objects, because of things like wear and tear.  Consider Galzria's example of Blink.  At no time did an object form a loop; only information did.  Similarly, there were no objects that looped in Time Heist.

(Note that we already know loops like this can happen in real life at the level of fundamental particles; a virtual positron-electron pair that annihilate shortly after coming into existence can also be viewed as a single virtual electron travelling in a time loop, absorbing a photon in the past and emitting it in the future.)

And if history is fixed and you can't change it (you can only cause things to happen), then by extrapolation, the future is fixed as well. Assuming I got the gold watch from my future self, I know that at some point in the future, I have to go back in time and give myself the watch. So the time line is fixed all the way, from the beginning of time, until the end of time.

That depends on the story, and how much the writer feels the viewers/readers are willing to suspend their disbelief.  Some time travel stories (To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis is an exemplar of the form) depend on a mostly-fixed timeline.  (Go read that book if you haven't.  Seriously.)  Others rely on multiple timelines--the Star Trek universe relies heavily on this, though The Voyage Home effectively relied on a fixed timeline.  Still others--including Doctor Who--allow for a single mutable timeline, with of course weird aborted pocket timelines that show up from time to time (Wedding of River Song, Stolen Earth/Journey's End), and sometimes alternate universes as well (Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel/Army of Ghosts/Doomsday).  To say that the Doctor Who universe is "inconsistent" is a bit of an understatement; as I said, fairy tale.  I hold that that term applies outside the Eleventh Doctor's run, for various reasons.

[Kuildeous]

I didn't have the same dislike for Caretaker as I did for the first episodes this season, but it's definitely not my favorite. It does, however, seem to reveal more of Clara than the other episodes. She's very much human in this episode, and that part was kind of fun.

Looks like I'm watching the next episode alone, as the preview was enough to keep my wife away. Severe arachnophobia has no place with this episode, it seems.

[Dsell]

I thought Caretaker fell really flat. My least favorite episode of the season by a mile. The only bright spot was Clara, I thought just about everything else was pointless or even annoying.

[Elanchana]

Does anybody have any theories about what's up with the whole Heaven thing? I normally have some idea of what's going on but I have no clue what Moffat is trying to do there. And the fact that the show (or at least the reboot) hasn't ever done anything with post-death consciousness before is making me reeeeeeeeeeeeally suspicious.

[jsh357]

My theory is that Missy is a renegade Time Lord, possibly one that was in the classic series, possibly a new character.  Her motive is anyone's guess.

[Teproc]

My theory is that Missy is a renegade Time Lord, possibly one that was in the classic series, possibly a new character.  Her motive is anyone's guess.

Missy is the Rani !

I haven't even watched the classic series but it seems that every single time there's a mystery, that's everyone's theory.

I really couldn't care less about that part of the show. Moffatt has shown before that he's unable to wrap these things up satisfyingly, so my expectations are extremely low.

[Kirian]

I thought Caretaker fell really flat. My least favorite episode of the season by a mile.

Did you miss Robot of Sherwood?  Or are we consigning that to the pile with Spock's Brain, Sub Rosa, and Love and Monsters, and not acknowledging it existed?

[Teproc]

I thought Caretaker fell really flat. My least favorite episode of the season by a mile.

Did you miss Robot of Sherwood?  Or are we consigning that to the pile with Spock's Brain, Sub Rosa, and Love and Monsters, and not acknowledging it existed?

Love and Monsters is great. I was so disappointed when I found out everyone hated it.

Robots of Sherwood wasn't that awful either. It was silly, but I liked how over-the-top Robin Hood was, it was entertaining.

[Teproc]

To be clear : I'm saying Love and Monsters is great, not Robots of Sherwood. Robots was mediocre but kind of fun.

[Kuildeous]

That is a truly deplorable opinion of an episode if you rank it as low as or lower than Robot Hood.

I admit that I enjoyed the montage of Clara meeting Danny after her various adventures. It showcases the weirdness of having time adventures whilst juggling a real life.

I really disliked the Doctor's refusal to admit that soldiers can be smart. Yeah, we all know that the Doctor has an aversion to warfare (mostly), and it's reasonable to expect him to treat soldiers differently, but this stubborn, childish rejection of the notion that a former soldier is capable of teaching anything other than PE is just a caricature. And while caricatures are peppered throughout the series, they are generally enjoyable—or at the minimum, tolerable. This was just stupid, and it portrays the Doctor as stupid.

It can be amusing when the Doctor tries to pass as a normal human (Matt Smith as the tenant comes to mind), but this was such a ham-fisted approach that it was actually kind of awkward to watch.

I feel like I should rewatch Listen or Time Heist to make myself less disappointed with this season.

[Teproc]

The Caretaker made me really uncomfortable for how it regressed Clara's character to the helpless woman who has to be validated by the men around her. She has no agency in this episode, which is a real step back considering how her character had progressed this season.

And I don't think Capaldi is great at being goofy. It seems to me that his style of humour (and I haven't watched The Thick of It so I don't know exactly what he's like there) is more dry and sarcastic than big and goofy like Matt Smith.

[Beyond Awesome]

While the writing is not always the greatest this season, I do like where the series is going, and I like Capaldi overall.

[Voltaire]

I fell very behind, and I'm catching up now (haven't caught up with the thread). Just saw "Listen" and "Time Heist" and they were both just amazing.

I don't care if this version of Clara is clearly a reboot, it's amazing and I love it and don't care about the plot hole with her change.

SEE DOCTOR WHO DOCTOR/COMPANIONS ARE GREAT WHEN THEY AREN'T SEXUAL TENSION! You proved it in the new series with Donna, why didn't you learn your lesson?

Oh, you did, you lectured us in the first episode.

Sorry, still carrying some residual bitterness from the start of this season.

But it's okay. All is forgiven. I love you again.

[Elanchana]

Clara. Way to call the Doctor out on his BS. And way to do it like an actual spontaneous rant and not some rehearsed script that's only semi-convincing. You go girl.

The eggmoon is a whole 'nother story...

[Kirian]

Gah.  I just saw Kill the Moon and all I can say is... what a waste of a great setup. 

The setup was excellent.  But at the end the decision was Clara's and Courtney's alone, at odds with, well, the whole rest of the world... after telling Earth they had to make the decision together.  And then the very existence of an actual decision is called into question by the appearance of the TARDIS immediately after.  I wanted to shout at my screen.  At least Clara understood this and rightfully tore him a new one.

Also, what happened to "You look like giants" from Ten?

And that's ignoring the bad science--normally easy to do, but in this case more difficult because instead of hand-waving it the way they usually do, they let it stand.  Eggs don't gain mass as they grow, dammit!

[Voltaire]

Just watched "The Caretaker". I am actively furious. The other episodes (1-3) were bad, confused, unclear, aimless, poorly written. 4 was great, 5 was good.

"Caretaker" was a tightly-scripted, intelligently written "The Doctor is an intolerable jackass, and the kind of person you like to imagine suffering slow, painful deaths, let alone spend any amount of time with."

That's not terribly articulate, but it felt like the takeaway I was supposed to get from that episode was "Hate the Doctor."

Fuck you, Moffat. Fuck you.

Worst episode of the revival, hands-down.

[Axxle]

I saw someone mention that the new Doctor is basically Sherlock, I think it was a decently accurate.

[Voltaire]

Hey, so in "Kill the Moon", Clara breaks up with the Doctor. And I supported her!

Is that what you want me to feel about your protagonist, Moffat? That I hate him, and he should go away? I'm supposed to hate the mad man with a box?

I saw someone mention that the new Doctor is basically Sherlock, I think it was a decently accurate.

Only if Sherlock were so unpleasant to be unwatchable, instead of charming in an antagonistic way.

[Voltaire]

Man, I don't even know anymore. "Mummy on the Orient Express" is an instant classic. A+, 9/10, etc. That's how you make 12 distinct but still the Doctor. Not like in "Kill the Moon", where he says "Not my planet, not my problem." The Doctor said that. About Earth. *facepalm*

But serious. "Mummy" is so good. This is a season of extremes. It's tearing me apart!

[Kuildeous]

Is that what you want me to feel about your protagonist, Moffat? That I hate him, and he should go away? I'm supposed to hate the mad man with a box?

Mummy on the Orient Express covered this, I feel. I felt the heated spat at the end of Kill the Moon was appropriate (if tacked onto the end of a mediocre-at-best episode). My wife and I did express confusion at the opening of Mummy when they seemed all buddy-buddy, but it became quickly apparent that they were just putting on airs. These two episodes worked to present what was essentially breaking up and making up.

Mummy was certainly emblematic of Doctor Who. It was absurd but not ridiculously so (if that makes sense; see Robot of Sherwood for the type of absurd I didn't like—a fine line, to be sure). This episode was not my favorite, but it did the job. It did show a vulnerable side to the Doctor when Clara thought he had everything under control when he instructed her to lie to the passenger about being perfectly all right.

Not sure if talking to himself is going to be a thing. I found it disconcerting coming from Capaldi. I'm not sure why. It's not like it's the first time the Doctor talked to himself.

[EFHW]

So Clara had kind of a wild-eyed look when she suddenly decided to stay with the Doctor.  Kind of like she is addicted and staying gave her a high.  I was kind of disappointed, it didn't seem like what she should do.  Her diatribe the episode before seemed deserved and not that unusual.  River Song certainly hated the Doctor at times, but he was still a good person.  When is this Doctor going to start doing something about his mistaekes.