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[Polk5440]

Did you not watch Buffy, or Firefly, or Gilmore Girls?  To me at least, the speedy dialogue is what makes these shows actually work.

Nope.

[EFHW]

They talk so fast!

That's partly why I am hoping for a slower pace. Sometimes I am still figuring out what just happened and we're on to the next thing....

Maybe commercials fill that role more and more these days. Has anyone else noticed that (at least BBC America) reruns of old Doctor Who episodes are shorter? I saw a rerun of The Eleventh Hour a couple months ago and the 50th Anniversary Special before the season 8 premiere and they both had at least one line/short scene stripped to make way for even more ads.

It's true.  I watched The Snowmen online through Comcast, and there were 2 or 3 scenes I hadn't seen before. 

[Davio]

I really enjoyed it. I liked Capaldi, the slower pace, the new (fan-inspired) opening, and the new cinematography/direction (I think that's new...). It reminded me of how Tennant was introduced, except better. I am hoping the slower pace continues for the whole season. There needs to be more slower moments in order to chew on what's really happening.

I have never really liked Clara, so no change there. Unlike Voltaire, I thought her reactions and role in the story made perfect sense given her established character, even if I don't particularly care for her.

I am so over Vastra, Jenny, and Strax, though. They are just Whovian Sherlock Holmes fan-fiction stand-ins. I wouldn't be surprised if they lived on Baker Street, and I wouldn't be disappointed to never see them again. My biggest hope for the new Who was there would be a cleaner break from the past, much like the Eleventh Hour did. You have to clean out the old to make room for the new. There was some, but I am a little worried that without a clearer break the series will continue to devolve into the convoluted nonsense that permeated the end of the RTD era.

The good parts first: I liked Capaldi. Dr Who's shoes are not easy to fill and I think he did rather well. Every actor really has to try to be his own doctor and not copy another one, that seems like the hardest part. Tennant was dark, Smith was giddy and Capaldi is... well, too soon to tell. At least he didn't try to be like Tennant or Smith.

The meh parts: I don't mind Vastra and co that much, but I don't care a lot for them either. As far as side characters go, I liked River Song best. I think it's good that there are some extra recognizable characters which appear from time to time. I recall the first Tennant season with Jack Harkness, the face of Boe, and some others. That was great! Having these Holmesonnites appear every show doesn't do it for me.

The bad parts: I didn't care for the story much. They did too little with the dinosaur and the robots were strange and not well explained. I liked the part where she had to trust the doctor to come back for her. I understand that they had to make Clara trust this doctor again, but the way they did it was just pretty awkward. She had seen the doctor die and she was fine with that, but now that he has a new face, it's sooo scary all of a sudden?

[Voltaire]

Actually...potential plot-related reason why Clara was weirded out. Speculation in spoilers.

I'm a fan of the theory that the "real" Clara is dead. She died when she jumped into the Doctor's timestream in Name of the Doctor. It explains how the Doctor got her "out", why she's suddenly teaching in Coal Hill, and a whole host of other things that are just plain stupid without this explanation. If this Clara is another echo, she wouldn't know the Doctor regenerates - would she? Did any of the previous echo-Claras know about his different faces, or did they just recognize their "prime" Doctor?

[Polk5440]

Actually...potential plot-related reason why Clara was weirded out. Speculation in spoilers.

I'm a fan of the theory that the "real" Clara is dead. She died when she jumped into the Doctor's timestream in Name of the Doctor. It explains how the Doctor got her "out", why she's suddenly teaching in Coal Hill, and a whole host of other things that are just plain stupid without this explanation. If this Clara is another echo, she wouldn't know the Doctor regenerates - would she? Did any of the previous echo-Claras know about his different faces, or did they just recognize their "prime" Doctor?

I don't think that kind of plot device is necessary to explain this episode, though it would be a slick way to dump her as a companion half way through the season. I think her reaction was completely reasonable. For example, we all know people die. Knowing that and experiencing a loved one die are two different things. You respond to that personal experience. Even if Clara "remembers" in some way all her "other selves" (not a given) and "knows" the doctor changes, she hasn't experienced HER doctor change. That experience should produce an emotional response.

Also, the Doctor ISN'T the same. He has new likes and dislikes, new personality, and loss of memory for a while, a new body. I liked the sub-theme of the episode exploring this through the broom analogy and the clockwork villains.

[Kirian]

Actually...potential plot-related reason why Clara was weirded out. Speculation in spoilers.

I'm a fan of the theory that the "real" Clara is dead. She died when she jumped into the Doctor's timestream in Name of the Doctor. It explains how the Doctor got her "out", why she's suddenly teaching in Coal Hill, and a whole host of other things that are just plain stupid without this explanation. If this Clara is another echo, she wouldn't know the Doctor regenerates - would she? Did any of the previous echo-Claras know about his different faces, or did they just recognize their "prime" Doctor?

Except that we know the Clara seen at Coal Hill School (Day of the Doctor, Time of the Doctor) is the same Clara who is in Deep Breath.  So this Clara definitely knows about regeneration and the like.  I think Polk has the right of it though; she's never experienced one of the Doctor's regenerations.  Remember that the last time we saw a companion deal with regeneration was in Christmas Invasion.  It's been that long.  And Rose went through a lot of panic in that episode.

Whether or not this Clara is the same as the Clara who stepped into the Doctor's time-stream on Trenzalore... is a bit less certain.

So I don't know about so many of y'all... but I quite enjoyed the episode.  Sure, it's not as great as Day of the Doctor was, it didn't need 75 minutes (though I think 45 would have been too short), and it most definitely didn't need any of the stuff with the dinosaur--not sure what the hell was up with that.  But the call from the 11th Doctor at the end that was foreshadowed was pretty darn cool.  And the rest of it was certainly as good as the average of Series 7.

[Polk5440]

As far as side characters go, I liked River Song best.

Agreed! Her goodbye in the season finale was definitely a tear-jerker for me.

it most definitely didn't need any of the stuff with the dinosaur--not sure what the hell was up with that.

I am pretty much accepting that a lot of modern tv shows purposely write in promo-fodder. I would rather they not do that, but that's what seems to be happening. At least showing off irrelevant eye candy is better than revealing practically the entire plot in promos -- which is another annoying trend of late in tv and movie promos. It's like in the age of spoilers, PR people use them to try to attract people. It's very annoying.

[Voltaire]

Hey! The second episode was actually really good. They had lots of opportunities to be terrible like they usually are but they avoided them - no "the Dalek looking into the Doctor's memory and saying "I see the secret you have kept from everyone!" or anything like that, etc. Danny's backstory foreshadowing was a bit ham-handed, but nothing worse than normal (unlike last week). Of course, the Doctor now conveniently has a no-soldier rule...

The Heaven arc/plotline was kept to a delightful minimum, appropriate for the season arc showing up each week. Loved grumpy alien Doctor. And the production values seemed really good this week!

I know it still sounds like I'm being critical, but things are going in the right direction. With how abominable last season was (50th notwithstanding) and the premiere, I got really nervous.

[Kirian]

And the production values seemed really good this week!

Maybe I'm nuts, but those were the worst production values I've seen since watching some of the Tom Baker era stuff.  The physical effects were pretty cheesy.

That said, Capaldi is definitely going to work well as the Doctor.  Script was all right, but the "twist" at the end was pretty damned obvious to anyone who's watched multiple episodes; the Doctor's rage is legendary.

[Voltaire]

Well, I think I'm going to stop posting in this thread after this, because I thought this week was mostly rubbish again and I don't want to be "that guy" crapping on something everyone else loves.

I guess my parting thoughts on the season so far, then, would be this:

0. Along with previously existing and long-building issues (see a few posts above)...
1. They haven't established Capaldi as the Doctor, through no fault of Capaldi's. He's different, cool. Every regeneration is, that's great. Show us some commonality. I don't think they have, or if they have, it hasn't been enough.
2. This has made the rest of the show rely on Clara, a character written so horribly (again, I don't fault the acting) I know nothing about her nor do I care about her. And I know I'm supposed to know something about her, but her backstory is so scattered, confused, and poorly connected I honestly just shocked myself when I remembered she's also the leaf girl. It's like she's different people (WHICH SHE CLEARLY CAN BE SO WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST DO THAT?  )

I think, at this point, I'll need a showrunner change to like it again. That makes me nervous - I dislike most fans who call for Moffat's head. It's like calling for the manager to be fired in most sports - widely considered the least intelligent form of sports commentary. You don't like something? Fire the guy in charge instead of understanding the problem. However, in this specific instance, I think the way to fix what I personally perceive as the "problem" is truly to have a different showrunner.

[Kuildeous]

Yeah, the third episode of this season was so banal. There was nothing really thrilling about this, and I even found the banter and "swordfighting" at the beginning too campy. That's right, I thought this was too campy even by Doctor Who standards.

Probably the most interesting thing about the episode is that the Doctor posits that Robin Hood is a robot, but they never actually justify or disprove his claim.

The scenes from next week did look a bit weirder and spookier, which are traits in common with episodes I like a lot (the Silence, the library of the dead), so maybe things will pick up.

I like Capaldi's portrayal, but he doesn't seem to be given a whole lot lately.

[Davio]

Clara is my least favorite companion of the new series. That's right, even below Donna.

At least Donna's annoyance was part of what made her stand out, Clara is just always annoying without trying.
I just don't feel any connection with her.

Capaldi is trying as the Doctor, but the episodes are so crappy it just isn't fair to him. My favorite episodes always had something melancholic, but with a bright spot (often the Doctor). Those episodes would dive very low before soaring really high, if you catch my drift. An example episode would be the one where David Tennant is held captive by the Master and his companion (Freema?) goes around the world to convince people he exists.

I also liked the end of season 7 hinting at the death of the Doctor at Trenzalore, but the start of season 8 is just horrible. The "heaven" arch also doesn't grab me as say "bad wolf bay" or the Doctor's death at the hands of the astronaut.

[EFHW]

I totally agree - I was so disappointed by the 3rd episode.  It had no depth - since when does the Doctor stubbornly stick to a crazy idea when he's been shown wrong?  His strength is that he turns on a dime and has creative explanations and solutions, not just acting nuts and stupidly macho.  And since when does Clara have heroes?  Just two episodes ago she said Marcus Aurelius was her only pin-up, and now she has a lifelong infatuation with Robin Hood?  And what about her new love interest?  (On a side note, she was way too confident with him.  No one is that secure.)  The ending was ridiculous - shoot a golden arrow into the side of a spaceship, and it gains enough power to leave orbit?

So yeah, the writing is looking really bad.  A scene here and there is well-done, but I'm used to such a higher standard from Dr. Who. 

[EFHW]

I really liked Donna, though.  And I liked 7th season Clara - maybe b/c the Doctor liked her so much.

[Voltaire]

Probably the most interesting thing about the episode is that the Doctor posits that Robin Hood is a robot, but they never actually justify or disprove his claim.

So if everyone is feeling this way, I don't feel weird! And actually this is interesting. The BBC cut a scene from this episode at the last minute, if you're not aware. In the middle of the fight, Robin Hood decapitates the Sheriff (presumably nixed because of the woman who was beheaded in London last week), whose head keeps talking, showing he's a robot (he was rebuilt by the other robots). He puts his head back on, the fight continues as shown. As it is, the only way you know the Sheriff is a robot (and the robot in the title, no less!) is his one remaining line in the middle of the fight about how he's the first half-man, half-machine something or other. Which is a terrible way to do a reveal - two characters engaged in swordplay, one of them goes "Oh btw I'm a robot k thnx" while the fight keeps going.

And as a result, I thought when Robin Hood was cut we were going to be treated to a scene later where we'd either see blood or wires, and was confused when we didn't. But knowing they intended to have just revealed the Sheriff as a robot, and if you combine that with the Doctor's "Wait, why WOULD they do that? It's a terrible idea" it solidly lands on Robin Hood = human, instead of the confusing middle they had.

[jsh357]

I must be the only one here who thinks this has been the best since Season 5 so far.  (In my opinion, Season 7 was the worst the reboot has been--Angels Take Manhatten was one of the dumbest episodes yet, and the rest was spotty to average besides the finale & Time/Day of the Doctor)  Absolutely love Capaldi; he's much funnier than I anticipated, yet doesn't come off as a clown like Smith or Tennant.  I think episode 3 was the best one of the season so far, even though it was pretty goofy, and episode 2 succeeded mostly through its concept.  While it is a bit late, Clara is finally starting to feel like an actual character to me instead of just a gimmick too.  Of course, I also hated River Song and the whole Trenzalore story, so I'm not really in line with the feelings of most on this forum.

[Voltaire]

Of course, I also hated River Song and the whole Trenzalore story, so I'm not really in line with the feelings of most on this forum.

Actually, I'm indifferent/negative on Trenzalore as a whole, and grew really tired of River by the end, so you're not alone.

[Polk5440]

I must be the only one here who thinks this has been the best since Season 5 so far.

You are not alone. This season has gone over very well so far with my friends and I. I like where the "hook" for the season can go. Playing off of the doctor's usual know-it-all attitude and potentially turning that attitude into a weakness could be very interesting. The best parts of the Robin Hood episode were seeing him try to grasp onto anything "normal" -- well, normal for him! 29th century robot ship! Much more plausible to him than Robin Hood being human! And the line from Robin Hood at the end, "I am just as real as you are" is nice and meta and fits into the "promised land"/myth motiff, as well. I think it could be leading up to a very interesting finale.

I long ago accepted what Doctor Who is and is not. It is a family show with plot holes the size of black holes. I mean, it's been long established that anything can happen and anything can change and what is fixed and what isn't is only known to the Doctor because he a Time Lord and even those points can change. Basically baked in an excuse for anyone to do anything ever.

Doctor Who is not a movie quality sci-fi show. Not every episode can be as good as the 50th anniversary special or the End of Time -- made for TV movies. The show has already made a tradeoff to more quality shows and fewer filler episodes, and I don't think it can go further unless it turns into Sherlock -- 3 episodes every two years.....

[Davio]

I zapped past House the other day and thought: That Hugh Laurie would make one hell of a Doctor.

[Dsell]

I'm surprised nobody's talking about the last episode. I just saw it last night, and I thought it was easily the highlight of the season. It very well might become a highlight of Capaldi's run as the Doctor.

[jsh357]

Yes, it was my personal favorite episode since Vincent & The Doctor.  I don't have too much to say about it, though.  Was just very intrigued and impressed.  I wonder if the monster on the bed was real or not?  Could make for an interesting villain for the rest of the season, but I'd be just as satisfied if there was nothing here.

[Dsell]

Yes, it was my personal favorite episode since Vincent & The Doctor.  I don't have too much to say about it, though.  Was just very intrigued and impressed.  I wonder if the monster on the bed was real or not?  Could make for an interesting villain for the rest of the season, but I'd be just as satisfied if there was nothing here.

Yeah, the episode is definitely interesting in light of whatever was on the bed under the sheet.

Also the fact that Clara piloted the tardis to time locked Gallifrey?? But there was that throwaway comment from the Doctor about the security protocols being down.

[Polk5440]

Yes, it was my personal favorite episode since Vincent & The Doctor.  I don't have too much to say about it, though.  Was just very intrigued and impressed.  I wonder if the monster on the bed was real or not?  Could make for an interesting villain for the rest of the season, but I'd be just as satisfied if there was nothing here.

That opening monologue was AMAZING! And chalkboards and books in the TARDIS? SIGN ME UP!! He should call himself Doctor Professor. The Question/Proposition "catchphrase" is pretty cool.

I think ambiguity is theme this season. clockwork robots/doctor -- same or different after all the parts replaced? Dalek -- good or evil? Robin Hood -- man or machine? Monster under the bed -- real or imagined? Throw in the what is the promised land? and What if the doctor doesn't know everything? as other minor themes and boy we have some really great arcs this season.


 

[ConMan]

If Capaldi's Doctor is the kind to have a crazy theory and go all Beautiful Mind on a chalkboard to figure it out, then I am totally down with that.

[Teproc]

I never comment here because I've been so-so on Doctor Who since season 5, but "Listen" is the best Moffat episode since he's become showrunner, perhaps his best episode period.

It's also the episode that finally makes 12 distinctive in non-superficial ways.