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[A Drowned Kernel]

Only thanks to your truly. Without me (and/or ADK) everyone would have been like "eeeeh, whatever, it's everybody's meta, lets not investigate further". You're welcome, town.

It *is* their meta though. They behave this way regardless of alignment. You can push back against it if you think its unhelpful, but unhelpful =/= scum.

Case in point, awaclus. Always frustrating, usually Town.

chairs do you have any thoughts on this game?

Well, I had been thinking anti promoter claim but that post a few above mine points out forcing a promoter claim forces scum to either tell us more about the setup (by not claiming) or be a potentially dangerous “fake” claim. I think scum promoter claiming sets us up for a one vs one situation even, right?

No, scum promoter can safely fakeclaim town promoter since there's no one to counterclaim them. And how would we go about "forcing" a promoter claim?

[MiX]

No, scum promoter can safely fakeclaim town promoter since there's no one to counterclaim them. And how would we go about "forcing" a promoter claim?

They would get lynched once Traitor flips. Vice-versa if Traitor's the one who claims. To answer your question: I am not Promoter, if this wasn't obvious. I somewhat encourage everyone to do the same but I doubt people will

[arishipshape]

I don't think it's a scumtell. I do think it's an anti town move, and that avoiding it would be good for town. I also think that if somebody already has a few anti town acts to their name, joking and sarcasm should count as points against them.

Why would jokes and sarcasm count more if said person's already scummy? Seems like confirmation bias to me.

I can think of no rebuttal. I retract my statements regarding sarcasm and joking being scum points, although they should still be avoided.

I am not Promoter.

[Glooble]

Ok, sorry if this is repeating stuff that's already been said, I'm just trying to think about this plan rationally, because my gut says it's a bad idea.

Pros of everybody saying whether they are the town promoter:

If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum. This gives us information that scum already has.

Cons:

If the town promoter does come forward, scum can choose whether to kill them or keep them alive, probably based on their assessment of that player and how good their reads are/ how they're likely to use that power. This puts the ball in scum's court a little more than I would like.

Scum is also marginally more likely to hit a useful town power role.

Scum promoter or traitor can safely fake-claim town promoter, even if this does entail some level of risk for them later on. This means if anyone claims town promoter, it doesn't actually give us any useful information about the setup (unless we commit to lynching that person.)


What am I missing here?

[Glooble]

To clarify, if you believe town promoter is negative utility, outing them tells scum to avoid them, increasing the chance scum hits an investigative role. If you believe town promoter is positive utility why would you ever want to out them?

[MiX]

If promoter is scum, there are no cons to claiming promoter. That's...pretty much my case here, really.

To clarify, if you believe town promoter is negative utility, outing them tells scum to avoid them, increasing the chance scum hits an investigative role. If you believe town promoter is positive utility why would you ever want to out them?

There's also the fact that promoter seems to be pretty neutral utility...also if scum kills them they out setup information, so it's not as clear cut as you suggest.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.

Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.

[Glooble]

If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.

Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.

Sorry I was going on the assumption that a town player wouldn't outright lie.

[MiX]

If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.

Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.

Well that completely destroys the plan! That would be seriously anti-town in my opinion, given that I'll eventually lynch them when they DO claim. Unless they never claim?

[Joseph2302]

Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily

[A Drowned Kernel]

If everyone says they're not the promoter, we can conclude the promoter is scum.

Or that the promoter decided they would rather not come forward.

Sorry I was going on the assumption that a town player wouldn't outright lie.

Town shouldn't (usually) lie. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily

"We" is a fairly limited term here I think

[MiX]

Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily

Well I essencially claimed that by pushing the claim...I continue to believe this but we don't have to push through just because I started it.

[faust]

Can you guys just move on already?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Can you guys just move on already?

Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.

[faust]

After some more thinking, unfortunately I have to conclude that explaining my ADK reasoning is not beneficial. Sorry for getting your hopes up.

PPE: 1

[faust]

Can you guys just move on already?

Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.

I think he's a bit towny.

[Joseph2302]

Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily

"We" is a fairly limited term here I think

Two people have started it.

[Glooble]

Can you guys just move on already?

Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.

Town to null.

[Joseph2302]

Can you guys just move on already?

Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.

Not played with him much, but nothing screaming scummy to me right now

[MiX]

Can you guys just move on already?

Yeah I suppose I can admit when I'm wrong. Or at least admit when ADK is correct that town will probably not claim, ruining the whole purpose of my idea.

Can you guys just move on already?

Sure. To faust and anyone else: thoughts on joth? He's currently my favorite lynch.

If I had to guess, I think he's Jester. But since I'm already voting for him, I don't mind lynching him.

Wait what, we're now trying to force the promoter out? Don't think this will work how we want it necessarily

"We" is a fairly limited term here I think

Two people have started it.

I wouldn't count me and ari as 2 people...we're more like one, really.

[mcmcsalot]

MiX am I correct you have not been mafia yet on this forum, only town and sk.

MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation. He is pushing and doing things that are anti town but also not from some misguided town perspective. This yea I was wrong is very sloppy and not something town MiX is likely to do (make such a poor play in the first place, not the fact that he admitted it was a poor play)

Also I really think he’s scum trying to prompt and provide a method of he traitor to claim promoter and reveal himself to mafia. Which I think people don’t understand how good of a move that is for the mafia team.

Space is towny, so is galz and chairs. I agree with joth about aroshapes post being scummy but I still find him overall towny, maybe I need to reread ari.

[arishipshape]

My case against Faust:

Reason number one. Unexplained vote.

Vote: ADK

Even after repeated pressure from me and ADK, Faust has refused to provide justification for this vote. I've repeatedly stated why this is super anti town, I don't want to sound like a broken record. If anyone needs to know why this is scummy, ask. Or re-read me.

Reason number two. General unhelpful-ness. Here are some of the choicest Faust quotes of this game.

Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.

If town guesses right and lynches scum, it even increases our chance of lynching scum to 100%.

I sure hope we're in one of the scenarios that have only 1 scum!

I think he's a bit towny.

The above quote is unhelpful for providing no reasons, although making a town read is usually helpful.

Can you guys just move on already?

Faust seems to be gravitating towards one liners that don't actually say anything, and not contributing nearly enough. However, he has done the occasional helpful post. I just don't believe these outdo his lack of helpfulness. Useful quotes include:

Here"s a notable setup point worth discussing: We can still lynch whoever we want on D2 if we do it before the 72 hour deadline for the Gladiator expires.

Unrelated note: Well done gkrieg.

This reminds me: What's gkrieg's meta? With his, feel free to explain chairs joth and Galzria's metas as well, I just realized I haven't played with them yet.

Let's just say if gkrieg were the Traitor, we'd already know...

Seriously, gkrieg tends to have pretty good reads as town but for some reason people read him scummy and he gets mislynched frequently. As scum he's much easier to detect IRL. chairs is like always kind of excited when he starts playing, and then something terrible happens in his life and he can't participate. He's also very much a gut feeling kind of player. joth I feel I haven't really played with enough yet. Galzria's current meta is unfortunately that he lurks until he is replaced.

Finally, I also just get a scummy vibe from him. I try to ignore feelings most of the time, but I find in mafia they sometimes serve a purpose. Feel free to argue. Vote:Faust

[A Drowned Kernel]

MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation.

What does this even mean? Can you point me to something that demonstrates it?

[Glooble]

MiX am I correct you have not been mafia yet on this forum, only town and sk.

MiX appears to be playing a game based on a team motivation. He is pushing and doing things that are anti town but also not from some misguided town perspective. This yea I was wrong is very sloppy and not something town MiX is likely to do (make such a poor play in the first place, not the fact that he admitted it was a poor play)

Also I really think he’s scum trying to prompt and provide a method of he traitor to claim promoter and reveal himself to mafia. Which I think people don’t understand how good of a move that is for the mafia team.

This is a compelling case and I'm comfortable continuing to vote for MiX.

I would also vote for ari at this point though. The recently posted faust case comes feels manipulative to me. Just dumps a bunch of quotes with no context. For example

If town guesses right and lynches scum, it even increases our chance of lynching scum to 100%.

[/quote]

is held up as an unhelpful quote. But it's not actually. It's a sarcastic way of pointing out a flaw in my argument, which is pretty clear with the context ari failed to provide.