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[faust]

Mafia is the oldest game in the world. Two factions, two sides. One is light, one is dark.

Welcome to RMM19: LOST Mafia!

Mods: faust, Archetype

This is a closed RMM game for 17 players. Now I know that 17 players is quite an undertaking, so this might take some time to fill. Please be patient. If you are looking for a game that starts sooner, please join sudgy's game.

The setup has been worked over, adapted and balanced for several months. A lot of work and passion went into it, and I hope everyone playing has as much fun as I expect. More information about the setup is found in post 2.

Players:
1. Teproc (Sayid Jarrah, Town-aligend 1-shot Lynchproof Public Role Cop) Killed N1
2. Hydrad
3. XerxesPraelor
4. Witherweaver
5. silverspawn
6. Beyond Awesome
7. ashersky
8. Ichimaru Gin
9. xeiron
10. chairs
11. Awaclus
12. 2.71828...
13. xxpittip
14. Twistedarcher Robz888
15. A Drowned Kernel
16. reinoe (Jin-Soo Kwon, Other-aligned Neighbor/Modified Jack Of All Trades) lynched D1

Spectators tagged: pacovf, mail-mi, Joseph2302

Day starts/ends: Day 1 start/end
Day 2 start

Rules for this game

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

The Silver Rule:

If any instructions you receive from the mods (via PM or otherwise) contradict any rules stated here, please stick to the instructions. If you are unsure, please contact the mods before taking action.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings.  Mafia members may communicate at twilight, night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night or Twilight action your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline.  If we do not receive your PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions. In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.  If your Night/Twilight action was mandatory, it will be decided randomly.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
5. Any player with a Night or Twilight action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night/Twilight phase.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. This game will have variable deadlines, depending on the number of players still alive as follows: If more than 15 or less than 7 players are alive, days will last 7 days, otherwise 9 days.
2. Twilight lasts 24 hours. Night lasts 48 hours. Unless stated otherwise, individual Night actions must be submitted within the first 24 hours of the Night phase. Twilight actions are due before Night begins. You may submit orders for the Twilight phase during the Day.
3. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
4. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
5. Once a player is lynched the game enters a 24 hours period of twilight; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
6. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.
7. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
8. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
9. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
12. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post. Mods will not edit posts for you.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.10 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator.  Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.

[faust]

Setup information

In this setup, each player will play as a character from the TV series LOST. Knowledge of this series might make the game more fun, but is not required to play. Roles are designed to match specific aspects of the characters in the TV series. Each player's role name tries to describe the role using mafiascum language wherever possible. The number of factions in this game is unknown, but it is guaranteed that there is at least one non-town-aligned faction, called the "Man-in-Black-aligned" faction.

This is not a bastard game, which means:
- No mod lying. This means that all flips are guaranteed to be correct, and role descriptions are accurate. There may be aspects of your role that are hidden to you, but none of them will fundamentally change what your role does (i.e. no hidden "paranoid" modifiers or similar)
- It is impossible for any player to have their alignment changed at any point in the game.
- There are no Cults, Jesters or Death Millers.

This game features some special mechanics:

Extended Twilight: Once the majority of votes is on one player, the game will move to twilight. The main thread is still unlocked in this time, and all players (including the lynchee) are still allowed to post. There is at least one role in the game that may perform actions during twilight. All factional QTs will unlock at the start of twilight. Once twilight ends, the thread is locked, the lynched player flips, all actions taken during twilight resolve and the game moves to night.

Push the Button: Every night, any player may send in a PM to the mod containing this:
4 8 15 16 23 42 Execute
If you do, you are not allowed to perform any other night action. If at least one player does, the button is pushed and nothing happens. If noone does, an electromagnetic anomaly erupts, causing all night actions to be redirected in the following way: For each player A, look at their target, player B. If B targets a player C, redirect A to C. If B doesn't target anyone, there will be no redirection. Pushing the button counts as an active night action for all purposes.

In case of night/twilight actions that conflict each other, actions will be resolved in this order:

1. Copy
2. Hide
3. Bus
4. Block
5. Redirect
6. Pushing the button
7. Button effects
8. Protect
9. Miscellaneous
10. Kill
11. Recruit
12. Inspect

[faust]

A sample PM for you!

"They think that I'm some kind of joke. They think I'm worthless."

Welcome to the island, [player name]!

You are Shannon Rutherford, the Town-aligned Modified Hider/Jack Of All Trades.

Stranded on a pacific island with great beaches? Could be worse. Only problem is you're running out of sun tan. Oh, and food. But you'll just let the rest of the group deal with that.

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

This is your power:

Rely on others: You rely on others to survive on this island. Every day at twilight, you MUST choose one other player. That player will help you through the night. Every action that targets him will automatically target you as well. At the same time, you are immune to any actions targeted directly at you. If you don't send in a player's name, one of the remaining players will be chosen randomly. Depending on who you chose, you might get a one-shot ability for the night or the following day. If you choose the same player twice, you won't get the ability a second time.

Please confirm via PM.

[Teproc]

This goes under the "I don't play RMM except if the theme is awesome" category.

/in

[Teproc]

17 players ? Dear God. This is going to be... something.

[Hydrad]

/in

[sudgy]

Ahhhhhh another RMM game before mine

Also, I don't play large games, so sorry about that.

[faust]

Ahhhhhh another RMM game before mine

Also, I don't play large games, so sorry about that.

Not before; yours should definitely start first. I just had this ready and wanted to put it out there.

[pacovf]

So, the four QTs that had to be redone each night wasn't annoying enough, now you want to see how well you can do cyclical permutations, eh? Can the Darma facility explode more than once?

Sorry, can't join, but /tag

[XerxesPraelor]

/in

[Robz888]

Aw man, I was hoping to eventually host a Lost-themed game!

[Witherweaver]

/in

[Teproc]

Aw man, I was hoping to eventually host a Lost-themed game!

I'm pretty sure there's enough content in Lost to do another one. We could resurrect the time travels mechanics from Voltaire's Doctor Who game or something.

[silverspawn]

/in

[Jimmmmm]

Man. I was going to take a much-needed break from Mafia, but I can't not play LOST Mafia.

/in

[ashersky]

Man. I was going to take a much-needed break from Mafia, but I can't not play LOST Mafia.

/in

[ashersky]

Also, I call Charlie.

[Teproc]

Confession : I called him Merry during the whole run of the show.

Also I call Ben Linus.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Jimmmm for lurking!

[Ichimaru Gin]

/in teresting

[Teproc]

We're... almost halfway there ! yay !

[Ichimaru Gin]

OMG that's the first time I've ever made it into someone's signature.

I'm so excited 

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also, I know nothing about the flavor, but this game looks really awesome just the same (I don't think I've known the flavor to any mafia games so far except the flavor I write myself).

[Teproc]

Also, I know nothing about the flavor, but this game looks really awesome just the same (I don't think I've known the flavor to any mafia games so far except the flavor I write myself).

Given the time this is taking to fill up, you probably can watch the entire series while we wait .

[silverspawn]

is this a bad time to mention that lost is probably the worst tv show I've ever seen?

[Teproc]

is this a bad time to mention that lost is probably the worst tv show I've ever seen?

Maybe not a bad time, but certainly a bad place.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I saw the commercial for the show like five years ago--and it looked pretty cool.

[faust]

is this a bad time to mention that lost is probably the worst tv show I've ever seen?

Well, they can't all be the best tv show ever.

[Ichimaru Gin]

c'mon people, we just need to fill 9 spots.

Seriously though, I'm in no games right now. There's no excuse to not sign up for this game, because it looks awesome!

[Archetype]

Bump! It's a lot of players, but it should be a lot of fun!

[faust]

A metallic voice hovered through the halls of the Sydney airport.

"This is the final boarding call for f.ds flight 815. Would all remaining passengers for this flight please report to gate 19."

Eevee looked nervously at the queue in the Death Note shop. All he wanted to get was some new batteries for his Game Boy Advance, so that he could play the brand new Pokémon Emerald on the flight, which just came out a week ago in Japan. But the pace was incredibly slow. He wondered if he would manage to catch his flight. Finally, he was finished. Now he only had to find that gate...

AndrewisFTTW woke up in his bed in a hotel room, a girl at his side and his head aching like crazy. He turned around and his eyes met the watch. Shit. Why didn't his fellow band members wake him up? Were they still asleep as well?

Robz888 took his temperature. It took him aback that he got sick just now, he really wanted to fly that plane. But he had to face the fact that this was not possible today. Maybe he could get on board to at least get to LA in time? He wasn't sure whether he was up to that.

[Jimmmmm]

/out

[Archetype]

[Beyond Awesome]

/in

I wonder if time travel will play a part in this.

[silverspawn]

/in

I wonder if time travel will play a part in this.

did you just spoil the series?

[pacovf]

/in

I wonder if time travel will play a part in this.

did you just spoil the series?

No.

[Hydrad]

hmm. This ones going to be hard to fill up D: we need to steal more people!

[xeiron]

It's been too long since my last game
/in

[faust]

It's been too long since my last game
/in

xeiron Good to have you!

[chairs]

I warn you that I've no concept of this flavor.

/in.

[silverspawn]

I warn you that I've no concept of this flavor.

/in.

it's about as good as equestria girls. so you might like it.

[chairs]

I warn you that I've no concept of this flavor.

/in.

it's about as good as equestria girls. so you might like it.

Are you one of those who didn't like anything past season 2?  Because I admit season 3 did lower my standards for EG (it really just wasn't as good as S1/S2).

[Witherweaver]

I warn you that I've no concept of this flavor.

/in.

Would you say that the flavor is lost on you?

[silverspawn]

I warn you that I've no concept of this flavor.

/in.

it's about as good as equestria girls. so you might like it.

Are you one of those who didn't like anything past season 2?  Because I admit season 3 did lower my standards for EG (it really just wasn't as good as S1/S2).

season 3 >= season 1 >= season 2 > season 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Equestria Girls

[silverspawn]

though I must admit I am somewhat biased since I passionately hated everything that included humanized ponies long before it became canon. according to hasbro, EQG was inspired by fanart, though I honestly believe that's more of a cheap excuse to sell human toys while trying to appear sympathetic than anything else.

[Awaclus]

/in

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Geez, the game has FOUR moderators.

[Voltaire]

Geez, the game has FOUR moderators.

faust, Archetype, Farchetype, and Archaust?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Robz888, ashersky, Galzria.  As someone posted elsewhere, apparently counting is hard.

I'll pour another bourbon, that should take care of the problem.

[faust]

Geez, the game has FOUR moderators.

faust, Archetype, Farchetype, and Archaust?

Hi Voltaire! Want to join?

[Voltaire]

Hi Voltaire! Want to join?

Keeping myself on a strict diet of 0 mafia games for the time being, sorry!

[2.71828.....]

I guess I am not in any games right now.

/in

[Teproc]

Man, this playerlist is looking awesome. 5 more !

[Archetype]

WOOOOOOOOOO!

Robz? Mcmcsalot? EFHW? Liopoil?

[Ozle]

Post to make people think I'm in, but I'm not really... Mwyahah

[Galzria]

I'm in

That's all I read.

[Teproc]

I'm in

Great !

[2.71828.....]

I'm in

I edited a little around that quote as well, but still read the same message

[2.71828.....]

oops, teproc did that already.  I feel silly

[xxpittip]

/in

[Witherweaver]

I think if you just put Ozle in the signup list, he'll have to play.

Plus, he was just recently Lost, so this game is a good fit for him.

[Teproc]

Also the flavor involves a mysterious island in the Pacific, so really I don't know why he wasn't pre-inned.

[mcmcsalot]

Blegh so big...so closed setup...so much potential...such a time sink to inevitably die before the end and never keep up with the reading to care about the conclusion...

[2.71828.....]

Blegh so big...so closed setup...so much potential...such a time sink to inevitably die before the end and never keep up with the reading to care about the conclusion...

and your point?  None of these mean that you shouldn't /in

[faust]

Heh, only 4 spots now. If everyone who posted in this thread would /in, we could start in an instant. Soo... Robz, pacovf, sudgy, Jimmmmm, SFS, Voltaire, Ozle, Galzria, mcmc... maybe some of you just needed a little push?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Not a chance, but thanks.

[sudgy]

Heh, only 4 spots now. If everyone who posted in this thread would /in, we could start in an instant. Soo... Robz, pacovf, sudgy, Jimmmmm, SFS, Voltaire, Ozle, Galzria, mcmc... maybe some of you just needed a little push?

I think I already said I don't play big games...

[faust]

Heh, only 4 spots now. If everyone who posted in this thread would /in, we could start in an instant. Soo... Robz, pacovf, sudgy, Jimmmmm, SFS, Voltaire, Ozle, Galzria, mcmc... maybe some of you just needed a little push?

I think I already said I don't play big games...

It's not big. Robz's Bankers game was big!

[sudgy]

Heh, only 4 spots now. If everyone who posted in this thread would /in, we could start in an instant. Soo... Robz, pacovf, sudgy, Jimmmmm, SFS, Voltaire, Ozle, Galzria, mcmc... maybe some of you just needed a little push?

I think I already said I don't play big games...

It's not big. Robz's Bankers game was big!

Yeah, that and Modern Community made me realize I didn't like big games.

[sudgy]

For me, more than 13 is big.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

If that is your story, you should stick to it.

[Ozle]

I think if you just put Ozle in the signup list, he'll have to play.

Plus, he was just recently Lost, so this game is a good fit for him.

I checked with him and he is pretty sure it won't

[Ozle]

Also, Lost is shit.

[silverspawn]

Also, Lost is shit.

good opinion!

[Archetype]

Blegh so big...so closed setup...so much potential...such a time sink to inevitably die before the end and never keep up with the reading to care about the conclusion...

You'll be sad that you missed it!

And, yeah. There's a 15 player version of the setup. But the 17 player version is, like, way better.

[pacovf]

Heh, only 4 spots now. If everyone who posted in this thread would /in, we could start in an instant. Soo... Robz, pacovf, sudgy, Jimmmmm, SFS, Voltaire, Ozle, Galzria, mcmc... maybe some of you just needed a little push?

Man, I really wish I could, but gotta be responsible sometimes. I'm trying to find a more balanced amount of time spent in this forum. This would not help...

If this hasn't started by the time March rolls around, we can talk again

[Galzria]

Like SFS, sorry, but no chance.

[liopoil]

How many scum are there?

[faust]

How many scum are there?

More than 1.

[silverspawn]

I got a question. don't these:

- It is impossible for any player to have their alignment changed at any point in the game.

11. Recruit

contradict?

also, is the role from the sample PM guaranteed to be in the game/guaranteed not to be in the game/just for WIFOM?

[Teproc]

Recruiting doesn't necessarily change someone's alignement, eg the Traitor in Stack the Deck.

[Witherweaver]

Liopoil is clearly scum.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, theory talk before the game even starts?  Clearly grasping for town points.

[faust]

I got a question. don't these:

- It is impossible for any player to have their alignment changed at any point in the game.

11. Recruit

contradict?

also, is the role from the sample PM guaranteed to be in the game/guaranteed not to be in the game/just for WIFOM?

The role in the sample PM is an outtake. It was in the game at an earlier point, but then didn't fit.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I got a question. don't these:

- It is impossible for any player to have their alignment changed at any point in the game.

11. Recruit

contradict?

also, is the role from the sample PM guaranteed to be in the game/guaranteed not to be in the game/just for WIFOM?

Reading setups is a scum tell.

[Witherweaver]

I got a question. don't these:

- It is impossible for any player to have their alignment changed at any point in the game.

11. Recruit

contradict?

also, is the role from the sample PM guaranteed to be in the game/guaranteed not to be in the game/just for WIFOM?

Reading setups is a scum tell.

This man knows his stuff.  He should play.

[mail-mi]

/tag

[Archetype]

Bump

[faust]

We need at least two more players. Right now, I plan to start this early January 2015 (start over the holidays would be pretty bad), if at least 15 players have signed up until then. I think pps has stated interest should this start in the new year, so that might be one spot.

lio, are you interested, or do you just like posting random setup questions?

[Twistedarcher]

/in

[Joseph2302]

/tag

[Archetype]

/in

YEAHEHEHAHA!!

[faust]

Come on. One more signup and this is ready to go!

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[Ichimaru Gin]

/in

[A Drowned Kernel]

I might regret this but it's almost painful to see this game sit in sign-ups for so long.

[Archetype]

/in

<3

[faust]

Alright. We're ready to go! Expect PMs some time around the weekend, game start will be January 5. The deadline for additional signups is January 3, 12 pm forum time.

[reinoe]

/IN in case anyone backs out, which often happens at the start of the game.  So I can be a replacement.

[Archetype]

/IN in case anyone backs out, which often happens at the start of the game.  So I can be a replacement.

If you want to play from the beginning, we can easily expand the setup to accommodate you. I mean, it was originally meant for 17 players anyway.

If not, thanks for offering to replace.

[faust]

/IN in case anyone backs out, which often happens at the start of the game.  So I can be a replacement.

What Archetype said. If you want to play right away, there's space enough to accomodate you. One caveat though: Do you have any experience in playing forum mafia? This setup is rather complex and might be too hard for a complete newbie.

[reinoe]

/IN in case anyone backs out, which often happens at the start of the game.  So I can be a replacement.

If you want to play from the beginning, we can easily expand the setup to accommodate you. I mean, it was originally meant for 17 players anyway.

k/ that'll work.

[faust]

Signups close in 18 hours.

[faust]

PMs are out! THREAD LOCKED except for taggers. If you have any questions about your role, feel free to ask. Day 1 will start some time monday afternoon probably.

[faust]

Day start is scheduled for today at 11 am. I am still missing some check-ins though. The players in question are strongly advised to check in in time, or else the start of the game will be delayed.

[faust]

I need to be more careful from now on. One of the survivors, I do not know which one, found my journal and apparently didn't like what I wrote there, because he decided to burn it. I guess I'll stick to the habit of another passenger and call everyone I talk about by nicknames I make up.

By my personal count, this is the 49th day we spend on this island, still hoping to be rescued. We have accomodated ourselves reasonably well by now, and food and water gathering runs smoothly. But out there are other people who have some kind of grudge against us - people like Ethan (no need to give nicknames to dead men, right?). Only yesterday, that crazy jungle chick showed up and told everyone how these guys were going to attack us. Well guess what - nothing happened. Whoever suggested listening to that French woman? I think it must have been Teproc.

In the meantime, a group of people decided to grab some unstable dynamite to blow up a hatch door they found in the middle of the jungle - to hide from the Others. Clever reasoning, man. For all we know, the Others could be right behind that door. And one of them got blown up all across the jungle along the way. Don't worry though - he was not one of the guys I like.

What they found behind that door was, as rumor has it, a weird underground science lab from like the seventies. They also met some other crazy guy who told them they had to push a button every couple of minutes to save the world. Guess what? They listened to him too. There's way too much listening to weirdos going on on this island, if you ask me. (Noone asks me, of course, because why talk to sane people?) A computer that needs button pushing every so-and-so minute? Please. Even back in hippie time, it should have been possible to program a routine for that. The whole thing is clearly a hoax, though a very impressive one.

- Unknown author, excerpt from a journal washed ashore in Fiji, 2009

Day 1 has begun! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (16): Teproc, Hydrad, XerxesPraelor, Witherweaver, silverspawn, Beyond Awesome, ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, xeiron, chairs, Awaclus, 2.71828..., xxpittip, Twistedarcher, A Drowned Kernel, reinoe

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends January 12 at 11 am forum time.

[Teproc]

So we're in season 2, my favorite, sweet !

Very excited for this, perfect timing too, with M54 just ending.

[Teproc]

Out of curiosity, who is familiar with the flavor ?

[Witherweaver]

Not I.

Vote: TwistedArcher because it's been a while.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Not I.

I'm hoping with this many people, town won't be hurt as much by the inevitable lurkers.

PPE: Seriously WW, I did not edit this post after you posted 

[2.71828.....]

not me. 

Administrative note:  I actually have a job that will take up time during the day and I will most definitely not post as much as everyone (including myself) is used to.  I also won't have internet at my apartment until Saturday, so that limits my availability again this week.  So sorry for the lurking in advance

Other administrative note:  vote: Teproc for knowing the flavor

ppe: 2

[Teproc]

I'm hoping with this many people, town won't be hurt as much by the inevitable lurkers.

That's generally not how it works because active townie just get killed.

Though with RMM it might not be as big a deal since there are a lot more night actions to dissect, which helps lurkers stay engaged (it's not as much about time-consuming rereads).

[xeiron]

Not I.

With these large games, to many posts have often been a bigger problem than lurkers. The thread becomes so big that nobody wants to reread.
Not to say that I recomend lurking anyway.

[2.71828.....]

I'm hoping with this many people, town won't be hurt as much by the inevitable lurkers.

protecting his partners who have a meta of lurking?  vote: Ichimaru Gin

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm hoping with this many people, town won't be hurt as much by the inevitable lurkers.

That's generally not how it works because active townie just get killed.

Though with RMM it might not be as big a deal since there are a lot more night actions to dissect, which helps lurkers stay engaged (it's not as much about time-consuming rereads).

What I really mean by this statement, is it'd be nice to not be like the only active townie surrounded by scum again.

PPE: 1

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm hoping with this many people, town won't be hurt as much by the inevitable lurkers.

protecting his partners who have a meta of lurking?  vote: Ichimaru Gin

Is this for real?

Just because one person lurking might theoretically hurt town less in a setup of this size (but I'm likely wrong about that?), doesn't mean it's still not an anti-town behavior.

[Awaclus]

I'm hoping with this many people, town won't be hurt as much by the inevitable lurkers.

protecting his partners who have a meta of lurking?  vote: Ichimaru Gin

Is this for real?

Just because one person lurking might theoretically hurt town less in a setup of this size (but I'm likely wrong about that?), doesn't mean it's still not an anti-town behavior.

Vote: Ichi for a suspiciously strong reaction to an RVS vote.

[Witherweaver]

I'm hoping with this many people, town won't be hurt as much by the inevitable lurkers.

protecting his partners who have a meta of lurking?  vote: Ichimaru Gin

Is this for real?

Just because one person lurking might theoretically hurt town less in a setup of this size (but I'm likely wrong about that?), doesn't mean it's still not an anti-town behavior.

Vote: Ichi for a suspiciously strong reaction to an RVS vote.

Not really suspicious.

[Witherweaver]

I like e's digging for subtle stuff, though.

[Ichimaru Gin]

RVS? Dude, he gave a reason that could theoretically be legitimate in his eyes and is more of a realish reason. I've had "real" votes on me this early before, so no, I don't think it's an RVS vote--probably even less so now.

PPE: 1

[Ichimaru Gin]

I missed a PPE in there somewhere.

[silverspawn]

aww I wanted to be scum this game.

oh well

vote: xeiron for discouraging active play.

[Witherweaver]

aww I wanted to be scum this game.

oh well

vote: xeiron for discouraging active play.

Vote: Silverspawn because stop doing stuff like that.

[xeiron]

aww I wanted to be scum this game.

oh well

vote: xeiron for discouraging active play.

I think I said that I want people to not be lurkers...

[xeiron]

For Teproc and others who know the setup:
Does it make sense flavorwise for multiple people to be Man-in-Black-aligned?
Or is it most likely a single third-party player.

[Teproc]

For Teproc and others who know the setup:
Does it make sense flavorwise for multiple people to be Man-in-Black-aligned?
Or is it most likely a single third-party player.

Both are possible, though I would say third-party is most likely based on the opening flavor, which would seem to suggest The Others are the main bad guys here, not only because they are mentioned, but also because of the timeframe.

[Teproc]

To expand on that : I could see the Man-in-Black being a third party that can recruit people for example, that would make a lot of sense.

[Ichimaru Gin]

To expand on that : I could see the Man-in-Black being a third party that can recruit people for example, that would make a lot of sense.

Aren't there no alignment changes in this game?

[xxpittip]

Vote: Awaclus for lynching me in M54

[Teproc]

To expand on that : I could see the Man-in-Black being a third party that can recruit people for example, that would make a lot of sense.

Aren't there no alignment changes in this game?

You're correct, didn't see that.

[reinoe]

For Teproc and others who know the setup:
Does it make sense flavorwise for multiple people to be Man-in-Black-aligned?
Or is it most likely a single third-party player.

Both are possible, though I would say third-party is most likely based on the opening flavor, which would seem to suggest The Others are the main bad guys here, not only because they are mentioned, but also because of the timeframe.

Vote Teproc
for knowing the set-up. 

[Teproc]

Am I really the only one ? Never mind silver, you guys are missing something.

reinoe, this is your first game here correct ? Have you played Werewolf/mafia IRL or elsewhere ?

[Awaclus]

Vote: Awaclus for lynching me in M54

Vote: Pit for being scummy in M54

[ashersky]

Vote: robz888 for not playing the Lost game.

I've seen every episode once.

[Teproc]

Now that ash is here : thoughts on the "push the button" mechanic ?

It seems obvious to me that having no one pushing it is bad for town, but it's hard to coordinate to make sure someone pushes it without having people softclaim VT (or passive role) so... do we just say that if you have a passive role you should push the button and be done with it ?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I had written a post about it earlier, but decided to scrap it.

It seems to me that scum has a lot of motivation to push the button, both to ensure their NK goes through and to keep it from being reflected onto them if they hit a PR that targeted them. It seems pretty dangerous for them otherwise.

[Teproc]

I don't think so. The risk is fairly small for scum, but the reward is huge otheriwse, because chaos in night actions is good for scum, especially in RMM (I assume).

If someone is roleblocked, can they still push the button ?

[faust]

If someone is roleblocked, can they still push the button ?

No.

[xeiron]

Now that ash is here : thoughts on the "push the button" mechanic ?

It seems obvious to me that having no one pushing it is bad for town, but it's hard to coordinate to make sure someone pushes it without having people softclaim VT (or passive role) so... do we just say that if you have a passive role you should push the button and be done with it ?

If we decides we want the button pushed, I think that is the best way to do it. People with passive roles or weak roles push the button. I do not think we should coordinate it further. At least not today.

But after reading Ichi's post, I am not sure pushing the button is clearly better for town. If scum were to kill themselves that would be a serious blow to them. And chaos with the night actions might get somebody to tell lies that get them caught later when a massclaim untangles some of that chaos.

[XerxesPraelor]

Hi everyone. I don't know lost, like what e was thinking, didn't read the setup, like my alignment, and agree that if IG flips scum, we look at lurkers.

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: XP That point made against me by e is terrible...

[Teproc]

Right, and agreeing with someone who's wrong on something that's basically inconsequential makes you scum why ?

[reinoe]

Am I really the only one ? Never mind silver, you guys are missing something.

reinoe, this is your first game here correct ? Have you played Werewolf/mafia IRL or elsewhere ?

I have played mafia on mafiascum.net.  Can you post what you know about the setup?  I'm clueless.

[Teproc]

I don't know anything special about the setup, XP (or whoever it was) misspoke earlier, they meant I "flavor" not setup.

[Witherweaver]

vote: XP That point made against me by e is terrible...

It wasn't terrible; it would be terrible later on in the game, but trying to find something substantial early in the game is good, regardless of how correct it ends up being.. jumps start out of RVS, gets interactions, etc.  Sometimes things like that can turn up correct (Yuma did this to me once when I was scum).   

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: XP That point made against me by e is terrible...

It wasn't terrible; it would be terrible later on in the game, but trying to find something substantial early in the game is good, regardless of how correct it ends up being.. jumps start out of RVS, gets interactions, etc.  Sometimes things like that can turn up correct (Yuma did this to me once when I was scum).

I agree that it's good to get out of RVS, but he (XP) is not voting me then is he? No, he's just agreeing with a bad point that e made (which he may or may not have actually meant sincerely) which is mostly fluff. That's what I don't like. Of course, it's not like I am holding people to an unfair expectation of having solid content this early in the game; I just think his post is very noncommital, yet leaning against casting suspicion against me.

[Witherweaver]

I don't think e's post was really fluff. 

But to be fair, your comment about lurkers makes a lot of sense in light of our game that just ended, so that's a more believable mindset for you posting that.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I meant XP's post was fluff, not e's. Sorry, may have been unclear pronoun usage there.

[Witherweaver]

Oh.  Well on setting up grounds for voting you later, that could be something.  But I wouldn't really call it fluffy.  It was, after all, succinct and complete with opinions on what's happened so far, which isn't really much.  Fluff would be talking a lot about flavor or theory, or using lots of words to say very little.

[ashersky]

I'll have a lot more to say about the button tomorrow.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Fluff probably wasn't the best descriptor. I found his post noncommital and somewhat casual.

PPE: ash

[ashersky]

I'm concerned/intrigued by the twilight power mechanic.

I'm guessing stopping and/or redirecting the lynch could be possible.  Town or scum power?  Either, I say.

[ashersky]

I actually have a plan, if anyone cares.

[Teproc]

I'm listening.

[Witherweaver]

Me too.  We should lynch the scum.

[reinoe]

Hi everyone. I don't know lost, like what e was thinking, didn't read the setup, like my alignment, and agree that if IG flips scum, we look at lurkers.

This is fluff isn't it?

VOTE: XERXES

[reinoe]

Fluff probably wasn't the best descriptor. I found his post noncommital and somewhat casual.

PPE: ash

I however, am calling it fluff.

[Teproc]

Huh.

Let's vote: reinoe

[reinoe]

aww I wanted to be scum this game.

oh well

vote: xeiron for discouraging active play.

Xeiron is not entirely wrong.  Sometimes there are indeed too many posts which makes analysis muddy.  This can even be an issue on mafiascum which has an "ISO" feature. 

[Witherweaver]

Hi everyone. I don't know lost, like what e was thinking, didn't read the setup, like my alignment, and agree that if IG flips scum, we look at lurkers.

This is fluff isn't it?

VOTE: XERXES

It is not.

[reinoe]

Hi everyone. I don't know lost, like what e was thinking, didn't read the setup, like my alignment, and agree that if IG flips scum, we look at lurkers.

This is fluff isn't it?

VOTE: XERXES

It is not.

Yeah it is.

1) Who cares he likes his alignment?

2) We should be looking at lurkers regardless of IG's flip.

[Witherweaver]

(1) I do; I don't want Xerxes to have an uhappy game.

(2) Wrong isn't the same as fluff.

[reinoe]

(1) I do; I don't want Xerxes to have an uhappy game.

(2) Wrong isn't the same as fluff.

Do you know if Xerxes prefers playing as anti-town or town?  Otherwise Xerxes having a "happy game" has almost nothing to do with you.

But it is fluffy is he's just making pointless comments.

[Teproc]

Actually, unvote

The mafiascum style gets really interesting when it shows up in here (see : Axxle).

I like it.

[Witherweaver]

(1) I do; I don't want Xerxes to have an uhappy game.

(2) Wrong isn't the same as fluff.

Do you know if Xerxes prefers playing as anti-town or town?  Otherwise Xerxes having a "happy game" has almost nothing to do with you.

But it is fluffy is he's just making pointless comments.

I'm fairly certain he prefers playing town.

[Teproc]

He does prefer to play town yeah. Not that it means anything, it's just WIFOM... which... WW, you didn't like silver's post yet you have no problem with XP's ?

[Witherweaver]

Silver has been playing a lot of WIFOM games lately.. I think he's doing it to make it hard for people to judge his meta.  Which is somewhat working, but it's also a bit annoying.  And antitown.  XPs thing didn't really bother me; I didn't even notice he said that until new guy pointed it out.

[ashersky]

So...we should vote: no lynch today.

I have reasons, some of which I will share tomorrow.

But, well, I want to neutralize the twilight powers, or at least test the waters for them with no one on the chopping block.  We have RMM, which means the focus is on night, generally.  We have the button mechanic (btw, redirects are almost always bad for town as it negates investigative and protective powers).

I also think we should no lynch as soon as possible, as Day 1 is wasted anyway, and Day 2 will basically be Day 1 again with possibly less players.

On Day 2, I can drop a huge bomb that not everyone is going to like me for, but I think is in our best interest.  (I say that because some of you will argue that it's not in town's best interest, but I think the pros outweigh the cons heavily.)

[Teproc]

Ok, so... why do you want to neutralize twilight power(s) ? Statistically speaking, aren't they more likely to be in town's hands ?

[Witherweaver]

Slight town read on Ashersky; this doesn't sound like the way he'd propose a scum plan (even a pro-town scum plan).

[Teproc]

Slight town read on Ashersky; this doesn't sound like the way he'd propose a scum plan (even a pro-town scum plan).

You played in the game where he proposed a great plan for town as scum yes ? How was that different ?

[Witherweaver]

Slight town read on Ashersky; this doesn't sound like the way he'd propose a scum plan (even a pro-town scum plan).

You played in the game where he proposed a great plan for town as scum yes ? How was that different ?

It was much more convincing then "I can do something cool, trust me." 

[Witherweaver]

I mean if he was going to propose this as scum, he'd think that no one would probably go for no lynch unless he laid out a pretty good argument for it.  Unless he was relying on someone making the kind of argument I am, but all that does is give him some town cred and doesn't really further the plan (except to the extent to which we think he's town motivates us to follow his plan).

[xeiron]

I'm concerned/intrigued by the twilight power mechanic.

I'm guessing stopping and/or redirecting the lynch could be possible.  Town or scum power?  Either, I say.

Stopping (Governor) has been done before and could be included here as well. Redirecting sound strong and something I only see as town. Sort of a vigilante variant.

There are probably three-four roles using this mechanic. It would be a waste introducing a new mechanic just for one PR.

[Teproc]

I mean if he was going to propose this as scum, he'd think that no one would probably go for no lynch unless he laid out a pretty good argument for it.  Unless he was relying on someone making the kind of argument I am, but all that does is give him some town cred and doesn't really further the plan (except to the extent to which we think he's town motivates us to follow his plan).

Or on his well-established meta of awesome plans.

[xeiron]

So...we should vote: no lynch today.

I have reasons, some of which I will share tomorrow.

But, well, I want to neutralize the twilight powers, or at least test the waters for them with no one on the chopping block.  We have RMM, which means the focus is on night, generally.  We have the button mechanic (btw, redirects are almost always bad for town as it negates investigative and protective powers).

I also think we should no lynch as soon as possible, as Day 1 is wasted anyway, and Day 2 will basically be Day 1 again with possibly less players.

On Day 2, I can drop a huge bomb that not everyone is going to like me for, but I think is in our best interest.  (I say that because some of you will argue that it's not in town's best interest, but I think the pros outweigh the cons heavily.)

I do not see why a no-lynch is good for us, but I might support the plan if you can promise us a reason D2.
Since there seem to be more than one non-town faction, it is less bad than usual to let a lynch chance go. We can always hope for them to kill each other.

[Teproc]

Not really. Let's say there's a three-man scumteam and a lone third-party. The three-man scum party has a 12/13 shot of killing town, the SK has 12/15... those are not great odds for town.

No lynching mostly means losing two active townies right off the bat, basically. It's a hefty price to pay. Even if ash is town and has a great PR to make it all worth it, there's the possibility he doesn't even live to use it. Now granted there's WIFOM because he might have some sort of bulletproof or some protective role might target him or scum might not target him because of that, but it's still a risk.

[reinoe]

And antitown. out.

How is someone changing their playstyle anti-town?  I've reviewed two games by silverspawn.  In RMM18-GUILDS MAFIA, he was derpy town and got mislynched D1.  In Newbie Mafia 7: Fish mafia, he played in a manner in which led to very little suspicion thrown at him but he was also scum.

As town wouldn't it make sense to at least have his town game look more like his scum game if only to prevent getting lynched?  Why would changing behaviors that leads him to getting lynched D1 be anti-town?

What do you actually know about Silverspawn's meta to label him changing it as "anti-town"?

[Witherweaver]

And antitown. out.

How is someone changing their playstyle anti-town?  I've reviewed two games by silverspawn.  In RMM18-GUILDS MAFIA, he was derpy town and got mislynched D1.  In Newbie Mafia 7: Fish mafia, he played in a manner in which led to very little suspicion thrown at him but he was also scum.

As town wouldn't it make sense to at least have his town game look more like his scum game if only to prevent getting lynched?  Why would changing behaviors that leads him to getting lynched D1 be anti-town?

What do you actually know about Silverspawn's meta to label him changing it as "anti-town"?

It's so much that he's changing it, but what he's changing it to.

"Hai guyz I'm townzers" is antitown.  So is "Hey I'm a VT!" and so is "Okay guys this time I'm going to play a normal game" and so is "Go away you can't lynch me" and so is (ongoing_game) and probably the others. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Hai guyz

1) I like ashplans. vote: no lynch

2) It seems to me like not pushing the button could actually be really good for town, a redirected kill is going from a 100% chance of being on town to at least some chance of hitting scum.

3) silverspawn purposefully screwing with his meta isn't an alignment tell.

4) Neither is Ichi getting defensive.

5) xeiron is more active than I've usually seen him, but I haven't played much with him. It feels like he's also buddying Teproc a bit. Slight suspicion there.

6) reinoe is awesome.

That's what I've got so far.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I like your new avatar. Also have a townie read on you from your post so far.

I'm willing to go along with ash's plan. I'm not going to vote for a no lynch yet though. We should at least let everyone a chance to check in and talk a little bit before we try to end the day. Though I'm cool with keeping this day very short.

[Teproc]

So you guys are just assuming that

1) ash's undisclosed reason for losing two townies (most likely) is good enough
2) ash is likely enough to survive the night for you guys to take that risk


?

Also still wondering why ash things banking twilight roles would be good for town, or why no lynching would blank twilight roles (they don't all have to be lynch related)

[xeiron]

Not really. Let's say there's a three-man scumteam and a lone third-party. The three-man scum party has a 12/13 shot of killing town, the SK has 12/15... those are not great odds for town.

No lynching mostly means losing two active townies right off the bat, basically. It's a hefty price to pay. Even if ash is town and has a great PR to make it all worth it, there's the possibility he doesn't even live to use it. Now granted there's WIFOM because he might have some sort of bulletproof or some protective role might target him or scum might not target him because of that, but it's still a risk.

And lynching mostly means losing three townies off the bat...
Unless we get lucky and hit scum. 4/16, 4/15 is the kind of odds we get at the start of a game and it is actually not to bad. I will try to do the math tomorrow.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I like your new avatar. Also have a townie read on you from your post so far.

I'm willing to go along with ash's plan. I'm not going to vote for a no lynch yet though. We should at least let everyone a chance to check in and talk a little bit before we try to end the day. Though I'm cool with keeping this day very short.

We need 9 so it's not like you risk someone hammering by voting.

So you guys are just assuming that

1) ash's undisclosed reason for losing two townies (most likely) is good enough
2) ash is likely enough to survive the night for you guys to take that risk


?

Also still wondering why ash things banking twilight roles would be good for town, or why no lynching would blank twilight roles (they don't all have to be lynch related)

I have to admit, I'm curious about ash's plan. You don't think that he thought it through?

[Ichimaru Gin]

oh yeah. vote: no lynch. Man, that is a ton of votes.

[Hydrad]

Yay I like ashersky plans.

Although I'm a bit worried as if asher gets killed during the night then this nolynch plan might go horribly. But I'm curious to see it so I'm ok with Vote: nolynch

[Awaclus]

This no lynch person is super scummy.

Vote: no lynch

[Twistedarcher]

Not I.

With these large games, to many posts have often been a bigger problem than lurkers. The thread becomes so big that nobody wants to reread.
Not to say that I recomend lurking anyway.

agree 100%. please dont make this a 50 d1 those games suck to read.

[Twistedarcher]

i want to lynch today. lynches are good.

[Twistedarcher]

i also think the button needs to be pressed. having every town member's night action being bus driven sounds pretty bad.

[Twistedarcher]

do we know if the button gets pressed at night?

[Archetype]

do we know if the button gets pressed at night?

No.[/color]

[2.71828.....]

Hey!  Ashersky has a plan!

I do like some of the reasoning behind the plan.  Obviously he has a good reason to suggesting it and left whole loaves of bread behind about his role being able to do something pretty epic D2 that a lot of (town) people may not like but should be worth it for town in the end.

That being said, my original vote on Ichi really was just throwing something out there for reactions.  Well, some reactions were had, and I think there are interactions that we can learn from.  However, now Ichi has jumped on that no lynch wagon.  While I generally like Ashersky's plan, I think that trying to push a no lynch wagon early is pretty scummy.  For one, it is a super safe vote.  You are sheeping Ashersky, you don't have to vote against anyone so no one can OMGUS you and vote you back (not that anyone ever OMGUS votes, of course) and possibly start a wagon on you, you don't have to work hard building a case early on, etc, etc.  Building this wagon up also takes away from wagons on people.  And a vote is something you can't fake.  You can bus, you can vote stupidly, you can vote amazingly.  But you are voting for that person.  And that final vote count is something that is VERY useful later on in games. 

Basically, I like my vote: Ichimaru Gin

[Ichimaru Gin]

In other words, you admit your original vote on me was bad and then you vote me again for effect while simultaneously finding me scummy for something that 4 other people are doing. Nice.

vote: e

OMGUS

[2.71828.....]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

[Twistedarcher]

E, multiple people have sheeped Ash, why does Ichi get singled out for the theory reason? You're saying your initial vote was throwing stuff out there, but clearly it's more than that, since you're exclusive voting Ichi for something that's not exclusive to Ichi.

Basically, your vote reads to me as "Vote Ichi because [extended theory talk that doesn't really mean anything]", it's a very generic theory that's not even exclusive to Ichi -- so it kinda reads as a bogus justification to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

What about the fourth? You're really straining this one aren't ya.

PPE: Twistedarcher

[2.71828.....]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

And that should be 5 people.  I missed Hydrad's vote somehow.

[Hydrad]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

And that should be 5 people.  I missed Hydrad's vote somehow.

I'm a ninja.

people have been forgetting to put me in reads list and things lately.

[reinoe]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

Although I'm indifferent about Asherky's plan, to hell with the "logic" on display in post #192 and #194.

Also Townread on TwistedArcher.

[reinoe]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

Although I'm indifferent about Asherky's plan, to hell with the "logic" on display in post #192 and #194.

Also Townread on TwistedArcher.

VOTE:2.71828

[chairs]

Hi.

I am playing this game.

Also I can't believe I already missed an AshPlan (tm).

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't get what the point of ash's plan is.

vote: reinoe

[Hydrad]

Has ash ever suggested a plan when hes scum that would end up hurting town if we went along with it? I know that hes suggested plans as scum but they were still good plans for town.

[Teproc]

That was a long post with a lot of nonsense to justify an early vote e...

vote : e

[Teproc]

vote: e

[Teproc]

Has ash ever suggested a plan when hes scum that would end up hurting town if we went along with it? I know that hes suggested plans as scum but they were still good plans for town.

I think I remember that happening... the Doctor Who RMM maybe ?

[xeiron]

I have done some math around no-lynching.
With a game of 16 players, I think 4 scum or 4 scum + SK sounds right.
I am assuming random lynch/kills for easier math. that is pretty much true anyway D1.
I am also assuming no PR interaction. That is not accurate to the game, but since both sides have PRs I don't think they will affetct the number too much.

Lets first assume we have a SK, a scumteam of 4 and 11 town players.
If we lynch today we have 1/16 chance to hit SK, 4/16 chance to hit scum, and 11/16 chance to hit town.
With two night kills this brings us to D2 with the following dead:

SK+4 scum+11town - lynch
SK | Scum | Town
 0      0         3       - 40.2 %
 0      1         1       - 19.5 %
 0      1         2       - 16.4 %
 1      0         1       -   6.3 %
 0      2         1       -   4.9 %             
 0      0         2       -   4.5 %
 1      0         2       -   4.5 %
 1      1         1       -   1.6 %
 1      2         0       -   0.5%

expected number of dead townies:       2.05
expected number of dead non-townies: 0.61
expected number of dead scum:           0.48
expected number of dead SK:              0.13
at least 1 dead townie:                     99.5%
at least 1 dead non-town player:        53.7%
at least 1 dead scum:                        42.9%
dead SK                                           12.9%
________________________________

SK+4 scum+11 town  - No lynch:
SK | Scum | Town
 0      0         2       - 61.1 %
 0      1         1       - 24.4 %
 0      0         1       -   6.1 %
 1      0         1       -   6.1 %
 1      1         0       -   2.2 %       

expected number of dead townies:       1.59
expected number of dead non-townies: 0.35
expected number of dead scum:           0.26
expected number of dead SK:              0.08
at least 1 dead townie:                      97.8%
at least 1 dead non-town player:        32.7%
at least 1 dead scum:                        26.2.%
dead SK                                             8.3%
_________________________________

4 scum+12 town - lynch
Scum| Town
  0          2    -  75 %
  1          1    -  25 %

expected number of dead townies :    1.75
expected number of dead scum:        0.25
at least 1 dead townie:                 100%
at least 1 dead scum:                     25%
_________________________________

4 scum+12 town - no-lynch
Scum | Town
   0         1    - 100% 

expected number of dead townies:       1
expected number of dead scum:           0
at least 1 dead townie:                   100%
at least 1 dead scum:                         0%
__________________________________

With these numbers no-lynch seems worse than I thought.

In the 1+4+11 scenario, if we lynch we have almost two times as high chance to kill a bad-guy (0.61 instead of 0.35 dead bad guys) and we only sacrifice half a townie on it in average (2.05 instead of 1.59 dead good guys). I doubt Asherskys plan will make up for that oppurtunity to kill scum.

If we are up agaist only one scumteam, no-lynching is even worse.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.1

Ichimaru Gin (1): 2.71828...
xeiron (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Awaclus (1): xxpittip
No Lynch (4): ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Hydrad, Awaclus
2.71828... (3): Ichimaru Gin, reinoe, Teproc
reinoe (1): XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (4): Beyond Awesome, xeiron, chairs, Twistedarcher

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends January 12 at 11 am forum time.

[xeiron]

Has ash ever suggested a plan when hes scum that would end up hurting town if we went along with it? I know that hes suggested plans as scum but they were still good plans for town.

I think I remember that happening... the Doctor Who RMM maybe ?

Sort of, yes.
In Doctor Who Ashersky claimed town enabler right from the start and said that he might enable scum and that we should consider to lynch him.
In reality he was scum that enabeled (more or less) immortality for the doctor (an IC who alo had a strong night-power). Because of that it would actually benefit scum if Ashersky died so that his team could kill the IC.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't get what the point of ash's plan is.

vote: reinoe

So why vote reinoe?

[silverspawn]

Silver has been playing a lot of WIFOM games lately (...)

I didn't actually want to play any WIFOM games this time. I just really hoped to get a scum role for this game because I like playing scum a lot, and I didn't, so I posted the comment.

I'm a little bit surprised that everyone seems to just go along with ash's plan. He hasn't even explained why eliminating twilight powers is supposed to be a good thing... any comment on that ash?

I'm not necessarily opposed to a no lynch though.

About the button: Do you think it would be helpful to have people volunteer to promise to push it?

[silverspawn]

eh, I don't think these numbers have any significance for this game, to be honest

[Teproc]

I'm a little bit surprised that everyone seems to just go along with ash's plan. He hasn't even explained why eliminating twilight powers is supposed to be a good thing... any comment on that ash?

I'm not necessarily opposed to a no lynch though.

This.

About the button: Do you think it would be helpful to have people volunteer to promise to push it?

No. Definitely not. That would be softclaiming VT/passive role/PR not using his role that night.

PPE : Also agree with that, mathematic analysis of mafia is generally misleading, especially in RMM.

[A Drowned Kernel]

We should probably come to some sort of consensus as to whether we're going to push it at all, though.

[Witherweaver]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

This is a tad weak.

[Witherweaver]

That was a long post with a lot of nonsense to justify an early vote e...

vote : e

This was third, therefore you're scum.

Fourth is IC, right?

Vote: e

[silverspawn]

We should probably come to some sort of consensus as to whether we're going to push it at all, though.

Well, if we don't, we basically have random deaths, which doesn't sound good in an RMM, since there's probably a fair number of investigative powers. In truth it's even worse than random, because we don't know if it was pushed; if we were to decide not to push it, scum could always push it and if we don't figure it out, we think our investigative results are worthless while scum gets their kills through.

So, I'm for pushing it, unless someone explains me why I'm wrong.

[silverspawn]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

This is a tad weak.

It is weak, but I don't think it's weak enough to be a scum tell.

[Witherweaver]

yeah, 4 other people are doing it.  But you were the third person.  It was Ashersky's plan, he can vote for it.  The second person is misinformed town, the third is scum jumping on an opportunity.

This is a tad weak.

It is weak, but I don't think it's weak enough to be a scum tell.

The overexplanation proceeding it, however, was.  Oh, hey, now we have that fluff we were talking about!

[Awaclus]

No. Definitely not. That would be softclaiming VT/passive role/PR not using his role that night.

Plus if we rely on someone who promised to push it, then scum can promise to push it and then not push it, which would cause a lot of misinformation (or at least unreliable information) going on. Assuming we want to push the button, I don't think there's any downside in agreeing that everyone whose power is passive or not worth using that night just pushes the button.

I think that pushing the button is good.

[Beyond Awesome]

Man, this game has exploded. Still kind of busy these days. I am still catching up. But, I really don't like the idea of a No Lynch. I'm curious why so many of you are voting for it. Since when is a D1 No Lynch ever a good plan?

[Beyond Awesome]

vote: e

I find his sheeping of Ash's plan to be very scummy. Ditto for Hydrad as well.

[Witherweaver]

vote: e

I find his sheeping of Ash's plan to be very scummy. Ditto for Hydrad as well.

He's sheeping Ash's plan?

[reinoe]

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

[chairs]

Just

the

the two

of us (Just the two of us)

You and I

[xeiron]

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

Why claim this now?

[ashersky]

unvote

How would people feel about purposefully putting each player at L-1 in order?

[Teproc]

unvote

How would people feel about purposefully putting each player at L-1 in order?

Sigh.

Do you have reason to think scum is hated ? What happens if an important town PR happens to be hated ?

[Twistedarcher]

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

Why claim this now?

Yeah, I'm a bit miffed by this..

[Hydrad]

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

If your in a neighborhood are you confirmed town to each other?

[Teproc]

I suppose it could be something else that I can't think of, but my second question still stands then.

Also, derphammers are a real thing, we've had one recently in Musical Mafia.

PPE : No, that'd be masons.

[Witherweaver]

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

If your in a neighborhood are you confirmed town to each other?

No, it's specifically not Masons.

[silverspawn]

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

Why claim this now?

The claim isn't a big deal I think. I don't see any advantage of keeping it hidden.

unvote

How would people feel about purposefully putting each player at L-1 in order?

Why give up the nolynch plan?

[ashersky]

Why give up the nolynch plan?

Who says I gave up?  My plan continues.

[Hydrad]

unvote

How would people feel about purposefully putting each player at L-1 in order?

L-1 feels dangerous. I don't think there will be any derp hammers but it might be a bit more likely if we need 9 votes as people might miscount.

[ashersky]

Do you have reason to think scum is hated ? What happens if an important town PR happens to be hated ?

It's RMM, so who knows?  It would suck if an important town PR happens to be hated.

This reaction was what I was looking for, though.

[silverspawn]

If you can explain a good reason for why it should be pro town, I'd be fine with putting everyone at L-1.

[Hydrad]

I think silver is scum this game. lately when hes town it seems like hes been doing really crazy stuff. This game feels more normal silver and I think hes less bold when hes scum.

Vote: SS

[2.71828.....]

aww I wanted to be scum this game.

This is normal silver?

[Hydrad]

aww I wanted to be scum this game.

This is normal silver?

more normal then his last few games I think.

[Witherweaver]

aww I wanted to be scum this game.

This is normal silver?

Yes.

[silverspawn]

Well, I wanted to play normal this game. I even considered announcing it, but eh there are 16 players, doing it felt arrogant because it  implies that everyone cares how I play, so I didn't.

[silverspawn]

but I'm not scum.

[Teproc]

I think silver is scum this game. lately when hes town it seems like hes been doing really crazy stuff. This game feels more normal silver and I think hes less bold when hes scum.

Vote: SS

This is... surprisingly confident coming from you, especially based on such lackluster evidence. Lynching silver for not being crazy is... well it's crazy.

It's not like silver's play is usually that insane either, he's not Morgrim (that reference will play great with this crowd I realize but meh)...

[reinoe]

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

Why claim this now?

Yeah, I'm a bit miffed by this..

@xeiron...
I claimed "now" because now is when I remembered to claim.

@twistedarcher
Why are you miffed?

[Teproc]

@xeiron...
I claimed "now" because now is when I remembered to claim.

FWIW that's exactly how it read to me. It appears as if you hadn't talked about claiming with TA though, which I find strange, shoudln't that pretty much be the first topic of conversation in a neihgborhood QT ?

[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.2

Ichimaru Gin (1): 2.71828...
xeiron (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (1): Hydrad
Awaclus (1): xxpittip
No Lynch (2): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus
2.71828... (5): Ichimaru Gin, reinoe, Teproc, Witherweaver, Beyond Awesome
reinoe (1): XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (4): xeiron, chairs, Twistedarcher, ashersky

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends January 12 at 11 am forum time.

[xeiron]

@xeiron...
I claimed "now" because now is when I remembered to claim.

@twistedarcher
Why are you miffed?

Why do you think that it is a good idea that we all know about this neighborhood.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ash does your plan hinge on their being a no-lynch or are you simply trying to minimize the number of kills before you can put it into effect?

hydrad actually making a bold statement like that this early on makes me feel like he's probably town.

reinoe/TA's claim doesn't really give us any information... unless one of them chose the other to neighborize the other, but I think they would have said if that was the case.

chairs opening posts have been scummy and non-contributional. vote: chairs

I'm worried about having enough time for putting everyone at L-1, I'd like a yes-or-no answer from ash whether he thinks he can get something useful from it before we do it.

Where's pit? He's apparently voting for awaclus but I don't remember him even posting.

[Ichimaru Gin]

17 people to L-1 in 6 days? That seems kind of crazy...or are putting everyone but Ash to L-1?

I don't really like this idea. (Hur dur, it's cause I'm scum who is hated).

Really though, this seems very time intensive and would require more coordination than I think we have amongst so many players. I'm opposed I think--especially given the lack of explanation so far. If we are going to do it, I really don't see us being able to put everyone to L-1 all today. Does ash have a particular order he wants us to follow? Regardless, that would probably be a good thing to setup if we're going to try this.

I'm interested by renoe's decision to claim their neighborhood without consulting Twistedarcher; I don't like it.

[Ichimaru Gin]

*reinoe

[Hydrad]

reinoes claim though makes me think hes towny. If he was scum he most likely would of talked to his team about the neighbour hood I think and they most likely would of said to keep it quiet for now? Although I guess his conversations with TA also would of let him know to keep it a bit quiet usually.

Overall though this claim isn't a very game changing one and I don't think it matters to much.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Yeah, you're probably right. I just wonder if TA has more to say about it that we haven't heard yet.

[Twistedarcher]

our neighborhood qt has been very quiet, claiming never came up. i haven't had much to say, i'm automatically suspicious because, well, it's a neighborhood where the other person's alignment is unconfirmed. i still don't see the upside to claiming though. if he's scum it doesn't matter, of he's not then now they know.

[reinoe]

our neighborhood qt has been very quiet, claiming never came up. i haven't had much to say, i'm automatically suspicious because, well, it's a neighborhood where the other person's alignment is unconfirmed.

Really?  Are you sure you don't see any upside to claiming?

""" if he's scum it doesn't matter, of he's not then now they know."""
Clarify this.

[Twistedarcher]

what's the upside?

if you're mafia, mafia already knew there was a neighborhood, so they get no new info. if you're town, they now get new info (cause i know i'm town).

[reinoe]

what's the upside?

if you're mafia, mafia already knew there was a neighborhood, so they get no new info. if you're town, they now get new info (cause i know i'm town).

1) There is no benefit to scum knowing there's a neighborhood if they didn't know there was one already.
2) You could have brought up claiming in the neighborhood.  What stopped you?  You having a hissy fit about the neighborhood revelation is not helping.
3) I don't trust you enough to start sharing secret thoughts with you.  I'll keep my content out in the open for everyone to judge until then. 
4) You are correct in that the neighborhood was relatively quiet.  The first point of anything to note was me asking you your opinion on Asherky's plan and then me sharing my thoughts on it.  You then responded with a single 14 word sentence.

[Teproc]

I don't think we have the same definition of "throwing a hissy fit" ?

Is your neighborhood locked during days ?

[Teproc]

There definitely is upside in claiming neighborhoods TA. It really should have been the first thing done actually, especially if you don't trust your neighbor, which appears to be the case.

[ashersky]

ash does your plan hinge on their being a no-lynch or are you simply trying to minimize the number of kills before you can put it into effect?

It doesn't require a no lynch, but I do think a no lynch would be good.  I don't have math to support it, though.

[ashersky]

There definitely is upside in claiming neighborhoods TA. It really should have been the first thing done actually, especially if you don't trust your neighbor, which appears to be the case.

While there may be upside, I don't think the second part of this is correct.

[ashersky]

17 people to L-1 in 6 days? That seems kind of crazy...or are putting everyone but Ash to L-1?

I don't really like this idea. (Hur dur, it's cause I'm scum who is hated).

Really though, this seems very time intensive and would require more coordination than I think we have amongst so many players. I'm opposed I think--especially given the lack of explanation so far. If we are going to do it, I really don't see us being able to put everyone to L-1 all today. Does ash have a particular order he wants us to follow? Regardless, that would probably be a good thing to setup if we're going to try this.

You can put me to L-1 first, if you want.

No particular order is mind.

I'm happy to continue hearing thoughts on the idea.  Coordinating it would be difficult.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think revealing a 2 person neighborhood should have been done later in the day.

[XerxesPraelor]

I volunteer to be first put to L-1.

[Awaclus]

I'm fine with being put to L-1 as well, and I guess I don't oppose the idea in general.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm a bad player, so if something bad happens it can happen to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm a bad player, so if something bad happens it can happen to me.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: Xerxes

Let's just try it.

[XerxesPraelor]

Can ash say anything about no-lynch besides that he thinks it's a good idea?

[2.71828.....]

How would people feel about purposefully putting each player at L-1 in order?

I don't like it.  We will spend all of our time trying to organize getting people to L-1 and never have a chance to do much else.

[ashersky]

Can ash say anything about no-lynch besides that he thinks it's a good idea?

Well, as mentioned previously, I think we should neutralize twilight powers if possible.  Why?  I think they could do more harm than good.  Here's an example:

Imagine a power that allows you to redirect the lynch.  We spend all day decided as a town who to lynch, then it's moved.  Could be by town who disagree, could be by scum saving a partner, could be by scum causing issues.

I am guessing twilight power orders are done by PM, so we won't know who did what.  That's also bad.

Plus, really, Twilight was a terrible book.

[silverspawn]

Can ash say anything about no-lynch besides that he thinks it's a good idea?

Well, as mentioned previously, I think we should neutralize twilight powers if possible.  Why?  I think they could do more harm than good.  Here's an example:

Imagine a power that allows you to redirect the lynch.  We spend all day decided as a town who to lynch, then it's moved.  Could be by town who disagree, could be by scum saving a partner, could be by scum causing issues.

I am guessing twilight power orders are done by PM, so we won't know who did what.  That's also bad.

Plus, really, Twilight was a terrible book.

I don't understand how no lynching helps in eliminating twilight powers though.

[Awaclus]

Can ash say anything about no-lynch besides that he thinks it's a good idea?

Well, as mentioned previously, I think we should neutralize twilight powers if possible.  Why?  I think they could do more harm than good.  Here's an example:

Imagine a power that allows you to redirect the lynch.  We spend all day decided as a town who to lynch, then it's moved.  Could be by town who disagree, could be by scum saving a partner, could be by scum causing issues.

I am guessing twilight power orders are done by PM, so we won't know who did what.  That's also bad.

Plus, really, Twilight was a terrible book.

I don't understand how no lynching helps in eliminating twilight powers though.

If someone can change the lynch, and there's no lynch, maybe it doesn't work?

[silverspawn]

Can ash say anything about no-lynch besides that he thinks it's a good idea?

Well, as mentioned previously, I think we should neutralize twilight powers if possible.  Why?  I think they could do more harm than good.  Here's an example:

Imagine a power that allows you to redirect the lynch.  We spend all day decided as a town who to lynch, then it's moved.  Could be by town who disagree, could be by scum saving a partner, could be by scum causing issues.

I am guessing twilight power orders are done by PM, so we won't know who did what.  That's also bad.

Plus, really, Twilight was a terrible book.

I don't understand how no lynching helps in eliminating twilight powers though.

If someone can change the lynch, and there's no lynch, maybe it doesn't work?

Making powers fail once ≄ neutralizing them.

[Witherweaver]

I don't support no lynch.  We've had good results scum hunting, and I'd rather just do that than go for plans like this.

Also, I think the game is designed in a balanced way, and while Ash's plan could have been foreseen and included in the balancing, I'm inclined to think not.  I don't foresee game-breaking twighlight powers.

[ashersky]

I won't cry if we don't no lynch, obviously.

My plan doesn't hinge on it.

[xxpittip]

Can ash say anything about no-lynch besides that he thinks it's a good idea?

Well, as mentioned previously, I think we should neutralize twilight powers if possible.  Why?  I think they could do more harm than good.  Here's an example:

Imagine a power that allows you to redirect the lynch.  We spend all day decided as a town who to lynch, then it's moved.  Could be by town who disagree, could be by scum saving a partner, could be by scum causing issues.

I am guessing twilight power orders are done by PM, so we won't know who did what.  That's also bad.

Plus, really, Twilight was a terrible book.

I don't understand how no lynching helps in eliminating twilight powers though.

If someone can change the lynch, and there's no lynch, maybe it doesn't work?

So we should just no lynch every day and wait for scum to kill everyone because they might have strong twilight  powers? I don't expect anyone's power to be valid only on day1...

"Imagine a power that [...]" following this logic i could also say that no lynching is really bad, because someone might have the power to decide the lynch by himself if there is none.

[Awaclus]

So we should just no lynch every day and wait for scum to kill everyone because they might have strong twilight  powers?

I don't know. Probably not.

[Beyond Awesome]

I am also fine being put at L-1. Since XP already voted himself, I will also vote him. Vote: XP

[xeiron]

Ok, lets do the L-1 thing.

Vote: Xerxes  L-6

[Teproc]

Stop it guys. THis is making the game confusing and lets scum be there without doing useful stuff. We'renot doing the L-1 thing.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.3

Ichimaru Gin (1): 2.71828...
xeiron (1): silverspawn
silverspawn (1): Hydrad
Awaclus (1): xxpittip
No Lynch (1): Awaclus
2.71828... (4): Ichimaru Gin, reinoe, Teproc, Witherweaver
chairs (1): A Drowned Kernel
XerxesPraelor (3): XerxesPraelor, Beyond Awesome, xeiron

Not Voting (3): chairs, Twistedarcher, ashersky

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends January 12 at 11 am forum time.

[xxpittip]

Stop it guys. THis is making the game confusing and lets scum be there without doing useful stuff. We'renot doing the L-1 thing.

+
Putting everyone at L-1 doesn't help us at all. Nobody will react to that because everyone knows that they're not going to be lynched. The only two scenarios i can imagine where putting everyone at L-1 are:
1. Scum hammers someone at L-1 => 99% chance that they will get lynched on day2 => scum won't do that
2. Someone knows that a certain player is scum => hammers scum when he is at L-1 (This is impossible at day1, since there are no night actions in night0)
 => We don't get any information and waste a huge part of our Day1 time.

btw unvote

[xxpittip]

*where putting everyone at L-1 helps town are

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm assuming that there's some sort of power related reason for the L-1 thing. vote: XP, because if we're going to do this, let's do it quickly.

[Witherweaver]

It does make voting patterns/history harder to analyze, and makes it easy for scum to look like they have content when it's really empty.  I'm with Teproc on this.

[chairs]

If we get it over with, what harm is there in going through with the L-1 thing?

But I'm more interested in Teproc and WW's responses.  I think Teproc is legitimately concerned... and WW is scum.

vote: Witherweaver

[Witherweaver]

If we get it over with, what harm is there in going through with the L-1 thing?

But I'm more interested in Teproc and WW's responses.  I think Teproc is legitimately concerned... and WW is scum.

vote: Witherweaver

I feel as if I answered that question, mostly likely because I did.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Do you think that ash doesn't have a good reason for suggesting this, WW?

[Witherweaver]

Do you think that ash doesn't have a good reason for suggesting this, WW?

I'm skeptical.  He could have also just wanted to see how people react.

[Witherweaver]

If we get it over with, what harm is there in going through with the L-1 thing?

But I'm more interested in Teproc and WW's responses.  I think Teproc is legitimately concerned... and WW is scum.

vote: Witherweaver

Also, what's the argument here?  That I'm sheeping Teproc's thoughts in order to appear active?

[silverspawn]

vote: XerxesPraelor

[silverspawn]

uh oups vote: XerxesPraelor

[silverspawn]

The day is long enough, and it seems like the plan itself also creates interaction.

[Awaclus]

vote: XP

[reinoe]

If we get it over with, what harm is there in going through with the L-1 thing?

But I'm more interested in Teproc and WW's responses.  I think Teproc is legitimately concerned... and WW is scum.

vote: Witherweaver

This is good.  Can you go into more detail about WW's response vs Teproc's?

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: XP I believe this puts him at 12pt.

I'm willing to go next, though I better not get derphammered. That's the #1 thing that's worrisome to me about this.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I mean XP is at L-2 now I believe. Messed up the formatting there.

[reinoe]

If we get it over with, what harm is there in going through with the L-1 thing?

But I'm more interested in Teproc and WW's responses.  I think Teproc is legitimately concerned... and WW is scum.

vote: Witherweaver

This is good.  Can you go into more detail about WW's response vs Teproc's?

Ugh, sorry about double posting...

I'm wondering why you say this because they both show concern about the L-1 situation and neither looks feigned to me.

It's true that it allows scum to hide behind not doing anything but if ASHERKEY is serious about his plan he'll need to push it more than he is now and provide more info about what's going on.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Just so we keep discussion going during the L-1 thingie:

people I feel are especially towny: ash (for plans), WW (willing to go against the grain, taking stances on people), Teproc (similar to WW, though he's fooled me before)
people I feel are especially scummy: chairs (has posted very little of value), XP (just getting a scummy vibe from him, and he never answered my question about why he voted for reinoe)

I haven't seen much out of the ordinary regarding everyone else.

[Witherweaver]

ADK with town reads on me.  What is the world coming to.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK with town reads on me.  What is the world coming to.

Don't make me change my mind. You've said pretty much exactly this as scum more than once.

[Witherweaver]

ADK with town reads on me.  What is the world coming to.

Don't make me change my mind. You've said pretty much exactly this as scum more than once.

Well in those games you simply hadn't start accusing me yet.  Now you have a bona fide town read.

[Twistedarcher]

There definitely is upside in claiming neighborhoods TA. It really should have been the first thing done actually, especially if you don't trust your neighbor, which appears to be the case.

To be clear, me not trusting my neighbor has nothing to do with it being reinoe -- I was automatically suspicious as soon as I got my role PM, and would have been regardless of who the neighbor ended up being. I still don't think it should be claimed early, though.

[reinoe]

There definitely is upside in claiming neighborhoods TA. It really should have been the first thing done actually, especially if you don't trust your neighbor, which appears to be the case.

To be clear, me not trusting my neighbor has nothing to do with it being reinoe -- I was automatically suspicious as soon as I got my role PM, and would have been regardless of who the neighbor ended up being. I still don't think it should be claimed early, though.

Really?  You automatically got suspicious after you got your role pm?  I'm very sure that is a scum claim.

I'm Jin-Soo Kwon and Twisted Archer is Sun-Hwa_Kwon.  There is no reason to be "immediately suspicious" when your role PM said that we are husband and wife.

[reinoe]

There definitely is upside in claiming neighborhoods TA. It really should have been the first thing done actually, especially if you don't trust your neighbor, which appears to be the case.

VOTE: TWISTED ARCHER
To be clear, me not trusting my neighbor has nothing to do with it being reinoe -- I was automatically suspicious as soon as I got my role PM, and would have been regardless of who the neighbor ended up being. I still don't think it should be claimed early, though.

Really?  You automatically got suspicious after you got your role pm?  I'm very sure that is a scum claim.

I'm Jin-Soo Kwon and Twisted Archer is Sun-Hwa_Kwon.  There is no reason to be "immediately suspicious" when your role PM said that we are husband and wife.

[Teproc]

Pretty sure that's a mistake. Both the claim and the vote.

[reinoe]

There definitely is upside in claiming neighborhoods TA. It really should have been the first thing done actually, especially if you don't trust your neighbor, which appears to be the case.

To be clear, me not trusting my neighbor has nothing to do with it being reinoe -- I was automatically suspicious as soon as I got my role PM, and would have been regardless of who the neighbor ended up being. I still don't think it should be claimed early, though.

Really?  You automatically got suspicious after you got your role pm?  I'm very sure that is a scum claim.

I'm Jin-Soo Kwon and Twisted Archer is Sun-Hwa_Kwon.  There is no reason to be "immediately suspicious" when your role PM said that we are husband and wife.

VOTE:TWISTEDARCHER

[reinoe]

Pretty sure that's a mistake. Both the claim and the vote.

Yeah, I fucked up the vote.  But We both know who each other is.  We're husband and wife.  There's no reason to think "oh noes it's my husband!  That's super suspicious!".

[Teproc]

Btw reinoe, I'm assuming you didn't mean to hide that vote deep in the quote ?

PPE : I didn't mean the formatting mistake was bad, I meant the vote itself.

[Teproc]

And yes, I can think of at least a reason TA would be suspicious regardless of the PM flavor.

[reinoe]

And yes, I can think of at least a reason TA would be suspicious regardless of the PM flavor.

TwistedArcher is miffed and pissed off because now he can't fake-claim someone else.

I don't trust TA because of his play.  TA claims that he doesn't trust me because he read his role PM.  That doesn't make sense.

[Twistedarcher]

Pretty sure that's a mistake. Both the claim and the vote.

Yeah, I fucked up the vote.  But We both know who each other is.  We're husband and wife.  There's no reason to think "oh noes it's my husband!  That's super suspicious!".

it has nothing to do with the flavor, it has to do with the fact that we're neighbors, not masons.

[reinoe]

Pretty sure that's a mistake. Both the claim and the vote.

Yeah, I fucked up the vote.  But We both know who each other is.  We're husband and wife.  There's no reason to think "oh noes it's my husband!  That's super suspicious!".

it has nothing to do with the flavor, it has to do with the fact that we're neighbors, not masons.

Which also doesn't make sense.  There's no reason to be immediately suspicious of the other person in a two person neighborhood either.

[ashersky]

FYI, you need a space between the : and the play you are voting for, generally, for the voting syntax to be correct.

[ashersky]

I actually like the idea of lynching from a neighborhood, as far as theory goes.

As for reinoe/TA, I could be convinced.

[ashersky]

Also, the L-1 thing is done.  Not enough time.

[ashersky]

Plan update:

All that really matters is tomorrow, I guess.  I suspect I'll be slammed by a few of you for the idea, but it's worth discussing (and doing, in the end), regardless of the risk.

For today, lynch, no-lynch, whatever.  I think it's been a pretty good day 1 so far, and not so crazy long yet.

We should try to do some lynch POE...

1. Teproc
2. Hydrad
3. XerxesPraelor
4. Witherweaver
5. silverspawn
6. Beyond Awesome
7. ashersky
8. Ichimaru Gin
9. xeiron
10. chairs
11. Awaclus
12. 2.71828...
13. xxpittip
14. Twistedarcher
15. A Drowned Kernel
16. reinoe

Strikethroughs are not options for today, bolds are preferred, regular are meh.

XP and xeiron are a pair -- I'd lynch one just so we only have one x-name in the game since I confuse them with each other all the time.
TA and reinoe are a pair -- as you know.
xxpittip is the only player that sticks out as both active and lynchworthy.

[Awaclus]

xxpittip is the only player that sticks out as both active and lynchworthy.

What? He has like 2 posts.

[Awaclus]

I'm also not sure how useful it is to lynch TA or reinoe yet. I think it would be at least interesting to let them use their power for a little longer, and in the best case scenario, it can be pretty powerful if the town player(s) of the neighborhood plays it well. And lynching XP or xeiron because their names start with the same letter is pretty ridiculous too. I'm not convinced by this post.

[silverspawn]

Also, the L-1 thing is done.  Not enough time.

okay, unvote

[reinoe]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

[Twistedarcher]

I hate that I can't join a mafia game on this forum anymore without regretting it.

[2.71828.....]

Went through and reread Ichi to try to keep up a case against him but found his posts to read townie, especially the way he called xp out for casually sheeping me without putting anything solid down.  And WW's point about his motivation about what he said about lurkers coming out of his last game.  I will at least postpone lynching him until D2.

So now for some PoE stuff for me:

I like reinoe's aggressive playstyle, but him being new here that could very well be town or scum.  Speaking of new (to me at least) I don't want to lynch xxpittip

I think TA is town

silverspawn could be town or scum, but everyone already knew that.  Don't favor lynching him

I want to see Ash's plan develop, and to do that we probably need to have him around D2, so I don't like lynching him today.

Awaclus reads townie to me based on reasons.

I always read Teproc as townie for some reason.  No different here.

Hydrad, XP, WW, BA, xeiron, chairs, and ADK all haven't really made that big of an impression on me and I am willing to lynch anyone from that group. 

[2.71828.....]

PPE:  vote: reinoe

[2.71828.....]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

[2.71828.....]

I am just glad you didn't get his role PM or you would have quoted the whole thing here

[2.71828.....]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

I know I would be pissed off with my neighbor claiming that stuff without even talking to me about it

[Ichimaru Gin]

@Twistedarcher
For the record, I think you're town--and I don't really care for the way reinoe is aggressively pushing your lynch, though it could also be I am less used to the different style of play. The person I really want to lynch today is e, but I don't know if we're going for a no-lynch instead.

PPE: 1

PPE: 

[2.71828.....]

ok.  unvote

don't want to lynch reinoe today and I have to go soon and I don't want my vote hanging out there for the next day or so.

[Twistedarcher]

why'd you vote him if you don't want to lynch him?

[2.71828.....]

why'd you vote him if you don't want to lynch him?

because his argument was floccinaucinihilipilification in my opinion. 

[Ichimaru Gin]

e's play here is really confusing me. We seem to be in agreement regarding reinoe, but his (e's) reads seem kind of sporadic. I actually think his last few posts are pretty townie. He put down some reads and then put a good vote on reinoe; I don't see why he unvoted him though.

PPE: e ?

[Twistedarcher]

I think E/Ichi strikes me as more town/town than anything else.

[2.71828.....]

I like a vote: xeiron

just read through his posts.  Involved, lots of theory talk, getting a feel for how the game is moving along.  He had his long mathy odds post that made him conclude that no-lynching is bad.  He jumped on the L-1 bandwagon.  Just has done things that don't really stick out and is in a comfortable place to be scum.

[Twistedarcher]

Sure, I'll sheep that. Vote: Xeiron

[silverspawn]

I hate that I can't join a mafia game on this forum anymore without regretting it.

Sorry, I know I was the reason for that last time. I thought you were too friendly to be scum, when you were just being friendly. If it's any consolation, I don't suspect you in this game so far.

[silverspawn]

Sure, I'll sheep that. Vote: Xeiron

vote: Xeiron

[reinoe]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

In fact here's the discussion in the neighborhood (paraphrased)
TwistedArcher:who you? (this original post is four words)
me: my name's reinoe. here's a paragraph about me and I miss isotropic.
Twisted archer: I'm twistedarcher. enjoy your first game here
me:here's a paragraph about my unfamiliarity with the theme and i'm diving into the lostwikipedia now
Twisted:yup (his original response was two words)
me: here's a small paragraph on my thoughts about asherkey's plan.
twisted:here's a one sentence response.

Cool.  TA pisses and moans about how I outed the neighborhood, but he never brought up whether the neighborhood should be outed at all.  Ever.  Even though he posted first. 

2) TwistedArcher was deliberately not providing content in the neighborhood.  That's scummy.

3) Why is he pissing and moaning about outing the neiborhood?  He clearly had no intention of using it for anything productive.  He wasn't interrogating me and he wasn't giving content.  Why is he complaining? 

4) TA is being coy about there being no benefit to outing the neighborhood.  We know each other so if the neighborhood never gets outed he can kill me and fake-claim a name that's not in the game.  Now that it's outed he can't fake-claim a name neither can I.  Of course since I'm town I had nothing to hide anyway.

5) TwistedArcher is saying he is suspicious of me based on the role PM.  That makes no sense.  His role PM had us both as husband and wife.  That's not suspicious.  His role PM had us being neighbors in a two person neighborhood.  That's not suspicious.  Him claiming that his role makes him suspicious is absolute garbage.

[reinoe]

I don't really care for the way reinoe is aggressively pushing your lynch,

How do you lynch scum on this forum?  Do you just sheep each other until someone accidentally gets lynched via extended RVS?

[reinoe]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

I know I would be pissed off with my neighbor claiming that stuff without even talking to me about it

If TwistedArcher wanted to talk about it he would have brought it up.  He didn't and he had plenty of time to do so.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I don't really care for the way reinoe is aggressively pushing your lynch,

How do you lynch scum on this forum?  Do you just sheep each other until someone accidentally gets lynched via extended RVS?

I have absolutely no trouble with people being aggressive or pushing cases in a hard manner. And I normally see it as a townie trait (as long as it's not on me). However, I see basically no evidence for why you think TA is scum. Aggressively pushing (what I think) is a case with virtually no support is scummy.

Really, I have a hard time thinking you actually want to lynch TA as it comes off as so overeager it almost seems sarcastic.

[reinoe]

I don't really care for the way reinoe is aggressively pushing your lynch,

How do you lynch scum on this forum?  Do you just sheep each other until someone accidentally gets lynched via extended RVS?

I have absolutely no trouble with people being aggressive or pushing cases in a hard manner. And I normally see it as a townie trait (as long as it's not on me). However, I see basically no evidence for why you think TA is scum. Aggressively pushing (what I think) is a case with virtually no support is scummy.

Really, I have a hard time thinking you actually want to lynch TA as it comes off as so overeager it almost seems sarcastic.

He's claimed scum.  Excuse me for being excited about a D1 scumclaim.  "Herp a derp I was suspicious about you because of my role PM and not any of your behavior before the game even started".  So in your universe that mindset is town?

[silverspawn]

I think the problem is the difference of attitude players have on mafiascum and here. Most noticeably, players are much more polite here, and there is also less pressure, no default prod after two days of inactivity, a lot more focus on individuality, and more freedom for creative play. Also, TA is just a really friendly guy, even for this forum.

For example, your 2)

TwistedArcher was deliberately not providing content in the neighborhood.  That's scummy.

Is probably just the result of TA not thinking in terms of content.

So, I don't think TA is scummy based on your case. I think it's more likely that he was just being nice/passive, and didn't think a few things through. But I totally understand why you're making the case.

That said, this

5) TwistedArcher is saying he is suspicious of me based on the role PM.  That makes no sense.  His role PM had us both as husband and wife.  That's not suspicious.  His role PM had us being neighbors in a two person neighborhood.  That's not suspicious.  Him claiming that his role makes him suspicious is absolute garbage.

Is kind of true.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I don't really care for the way reinoe is aggressively pushing your lynch,

How do you lynch scum on this forum?  Do you just sheep each other until someone accidentally gets lynched via extended RVS?

I have absolutely no trouble with people being aggressive or pushing cases in a hard manner. And I normally see it as a townie trait (as long as it's not on me). However, I see basically no evidence for why you think TA is scum. Aggressively pushing (what I think) is a case with virtually no support is scummy.

Really, I have a hard time thinking you actually want to lynch TA as it comes off as so overeager it almost seems sarcastic.

He's claimed scum.  Excuse me for being excited about a D1 scumclaim.  "Herp a derp I was suspicious about you because of my role PM and not any of your behavior before the game even started".  So in your universe that mindset is town?

That is definitely something worth taking into consideration. But I hardly think it constitutes "claiming scum". I'm not saying at all that that makes me think TA is town. I see it as pretty much a null tell for him.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm adding reinoe to my list of "probably town", I don't think scum claims so deliberately and tries so actively to get their fellow neighbor lynched. If anything, they try to win over the trust of the other player.

I'm not seeing the case on TA, though. And I'm honestly fine with my vote on XP.

[Hydrad]

reinoe = eager town
TA = normal TA slight town read
IG = defensive IG! towny even though its not a tell for him. just a gut read right now
XP = town read. which is surprising as I think I have called him scum and tried to lynch him in every game except one
chairs = seems towny
pit = townyish

asher = null but willing to follow his plan
ADK = null I guess? I don't know hes been active but nothings sitting in my memory about him
Teproc = null
WW = null but if I can't find anyone scummy might jump to him because hes really good and scary.
BA = don't even really remember if hes posted yet? so null?
awaclus = null...

e = gut scum read.
SS = weird normal SS and I'm still suspicious about him so would rate as scummy
xerion = I don't know who he is but the case on him isn't bad so i'll rate him as scummy


This started out as just my read on 3 people and then I thought I might as well keep going. I know day 1 reads aren't very useful but I wanted to do it anyways!

[silverspawn]

This started out as just my read on 3 people and then I thought I might as well keep going. I know day 1 reads aren't very useful but I wanted to do it anyways!

!

[reinoe]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

This makes no  sense.  How can someone "use" their flavor-name at night?  The neighborhood is open all day everyday.  TA has still not posted or even attempted to post any content in there.  In what way do you think he should be using the neighborhood?

[reinoe]

Because people seem to have missed it...

In fact here's the discussion in the neighborhood (paraphrased)

TwistedArcher:who you? (this original post is four words)
me: my name's reinoe. here's a paragraph about me and I miss isotropic.
Twisted archer: I'm twistedarcher. enjoy your first game here
me:here's a paragraph about my unfamiliarity with the theme and i'm diving into the lostwikipedia now
Twisted:yup (his original response was two words)
me: here's a small paragraph on my thoughts about asherkey's plan.
twisted:here's a one sentence response.

TwistedArcher was setting the world on fire with how he deftly used the neighborhood.  He's gonna revolutionize the way neighborhoods are used because OMG wow.  With such insight as "who are you" and "yup".  I mean wow.  I can definitely tell he was putting that neighborhood to use like never before.

[ashersky]

You are missing the issue, and I think it may relate to you being a mafiascum person and not an f.ds person.

Here, at least, no town player would ever out another player who could be town without at the very least asking first.  You don't know TA's alignment.  You also don't know his role.  If he's town, perhaps he has a reason to not want his role name out there.  Perhaps there are roles in the game that refer to role names specifically.

This is a closed, invented setup that clearly takes the flavor very seriously.  You ignored that.

On f.ds, what you did is generally considered a dick move.  On mafiascum, maybe it's just par for the course?

I don't see it as an alignment tell.

[silverspawn]

well, on mafiascum claiming VT if you're getting into a heated argument is normal, so...

[faust]

Vote Count 1.4

silverspawn (1): Hydrad
2.71828... (2): Teproc, Witherweaver
XerxesPraelor (6): XerxesPraelor, Beyond Awesome, xeiron, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver (1): chairs
Twistedarcher (1): reinoe
xeiron (3): 2.71828..., Twistedarcher, silverspawn

Not Voting (2): ashersky, xxpittip

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends January 12 at 11 am forum time.

I'd like to remind everyone of the Civility Pledge. Anything I consider a violation of the pledge, in particular attacks on a personal level, will be dealt with according to severity. Remember that this is a game, and the main goal is for everyone to have fun.

[xeiron]

Plan update:

All that really matters is tomorrow, I guess.  I suspect I'll be slammed by a few of you for the idea, but it's worth discussing (and doing, in the end), regardless of the risk.

For today, lynch, no-lynch, whatever.  I think it's been a pretty good day 1 so far, and not so crazy long yet.

We should try to do some lynch POE...

1. Teproc
2. Hydrad
3. XerxesPraelor
4. Witherweaver
5. silverspawn
6. Beyond Awesome
7. ashersky
8. Ichimaru Gin
9. xeiron
10. chairs
11. Awaclus
12. 2.71828...
13. xxpittip
14. Twistedarcher
15. A Drowned Kernel
16. reinoe

Strikethroughs are not options for today, bolds are preferred, regular are meh.

XP and xeiron are a pair -- I'd lynch one just so we only have one x-name in the game since I confuse them with each other all the time.
TA and reinoe are a pair -- as you know.
xxpittip is the only player that sticks out as both active and lynchworthy.

I understand why you strike teproc, WW and ADK.  I also understant why you don't want yourself lynched.
But, Beyond Awesome!? With his three posts, I can't get a read at him at all.

Also, does not xxpittip count as an x?

[xeiron]

5) TwistedArcher is saying he is suspicious of me based on the role PM.  That makes no sense.  His role PM had us both as husband and wife.  That's not suspicious.  His role PM had us being neighbors in a two person neighborhood.  That's not suspicious.  Him claiming that his role makes him suspicious is absolute garbage.

I totally understand that Twistedarcher gets suspicius when he is neighbors instead of masons with his flavor wife. I know because I had just the same initial suspicion when my lover and I was not confirmed town to each other in Shakespeare Mafia. In that game we both turned out to be town, but it took some time before i trusted him (liopoil, think).

[Teproc]

reinoe : please calm down. Hystrionics like "he claimed scum" don't do well here, this isn't mafiascum, we don't enjoy shouting at each other.

Here's what I think of the TA/reinoe situation :

TA didn't speak a lot in the neighborhood because he thinks neighborhoords are of dubious utility to town, I'm pretty sure he's said this in previous games, and there is a very specific precedent on f.ds of scum using a neighborhood to successfully manipulate town (Robz in M31).

I don't think TA put a lot of weight in the whole husband/wife thing because he doesn't know the flavor and kinda ignored it, which is a mistake in RMM but whatever.

When TA said "as soon as I got my role PM", he obviously wasn't referencing the flavor, he was referencing the neighborhood and the fact that he's suspicious of them because you don't know the other guys alignment which means you should be careful. You might disagree with his decision to basically not engage, that's fine, but it's not"claiming scum" and I'm pretty sure you understand that and are just being super-hyperbolic because that's fun for you.

It's dumb though. Because this case is obviously extremely weak, yet you present it as if we're all idiots for not lynching TA, so where's your credibility now ? When you later make a better case, there's nowhere left for you to go, and no one will listne to you, so great job there.

I suggest we move on from this whole thing, as I'm reasonably convinced you're both town and this is a waste of time. Oh, and TA : if you're unhappy with playing a game here, it's still time to replace out. Either that or don't complain about being a game as soon as someone gets aggressive with you, I mean come on.

Not so convinced about e anymore.

vote: chairs

[faust]

Vote Count 1.5

silverspawn (1): Hydrad
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver
XerxesPraelor (6): XerxesPraelor, Beyond Awesome, xeiron, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver (1): chairs
xeiron (3): 2.71828..., Twistedarcher, silverspawn
chairs (1): Teproc

Not Voting (2): ashersky, xxpittip

With 16 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends January 12 at 11 am forum time.

reinoe has been rendered voteless for today only as a result of violating the Civility Pledge. Consequently, the number of votes needed to lynch has been lowered to 8.

[Teproc]

Hm.

I suggest we don't discuss faust's decision here because really that just distracts from the game.

[Awaclus]

unvote

I didn't realize we were this close to the XP lynch. I don't really want to lynch him, as I think he's somewhat towny.

[Teproc]

unvote

I didn't realize we were this close to the XP lynch. I don't really want to lynch him, as I think he's somewhat towny.

You voted for XP with the explicite goal of putting him to L-1 and you're surprised/concerned that he's close to being lynched ? Huh ?

[Awaclus]

unvote

I didn't realize we were this close to the XP lynch. I don't really want to lynch him, as I think he's somewhat towny.

You voted for XP with the explicite goal of putting him to L-1 and you're surprised/concerned that he's close to being lynched ? Huh ?

Somehow I thought that he stopped being close to being lynched as soon as the "everyone to L-1" plan died. I guess he wasn't in any danger of getting lynched or anything, but I don't really like the wagon on him either way.

[Twistedarcher]

Hm.

I suggest we don't discuss faust's decision here because really that just distracts from the game.

It happened because he's announced he's going to start being a dick to me in the qt, which I haven't posted in at all lately.

[Twistedarcher]

Teproc, what's changing your mind about e?

[Teproc]

His reaction to the reinoe/TA thing seemed townie to me, especially the vote/unvote. Then he voted xeiron with a decent day 1 case. Basically it feels like he's trying to be useful, to get things away from theory talk and L-1 nonsense with actual interactions. I'd rather look at lurkers or people with low content now, because if I were scum I'd probably have been content with letting things unfold in the past few days.

[Witherweaver]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

In fact here's the discussion in the neighborhood (paraphrased)
TwistedArcher:who you? (this original post is four words)
me: my name's reinoe. here's a paragraph about me and I miss isotropic.
Twisted archer: I'm twistedarcher. enjoy your first game here
me:here's a paragraph about my unfamiliarity with the theme and i'm diving into the lostwikipedia now
Twisted:yup (his original response was two words)
me: here's a small paragraph on my thoughts about asherkey's plan.
twisted:here's a one sentence response.

Cool.  TA pisses and moans about how I outed the neighborhood, but he never brought up whether the neighborhood should be outed at all.  Ever.  Even though he posted first. 

2) TwistedArcher was deliberately not providing content in the neighborhood.  That's scummy.

3) Why is he pissing and moaning about outing the neiborhood?  He clearly had no intention of using it for anything productive.  He wasn't interrogating me and he wasn't giving content.  Why is he complaining? 

4) TA is being coy about there being no benefit to outing the neighborhood.  We know each other so if the neighborhood never gets outed he can kill me and fake-claim a name that's not in the game.  Now that it's outed he can't fake-claim a name neither can I.  Of course since I'm town I had nothing to hide anyway.

5) TwistedArcher is saying he is suspicious of me based on the role PM.  That makes no sense.  His role PM had us both as husband and wife.  That's not suspicious.  His role PM had us being neighbors in a two person neighborhood.  That's not suspicious.  Him claiming that his role makes him suspicious is absolute garbage.

You are really exaggerating TA's reaction to you claiming the neighborhood.

Did you actually claim to just get reactions? 

[Beyond Awesome]

Sorry guys for the lack of content. It is not my intention to lurk. Recently, I got a new job. I work 4 days a week in a warehouse for 10 hours. It is about a 45 minute drive each way, and I am pretty exhausted by the time I make it home. So, with that said, I will be diligent and try to post as often as I can, and on my days off, I will put in more content.

With a game so large, it is hard to get reads. I do think reinoe is town. Why would scum out a neighborhood like that. His playstyle is interesting. I don't like though that he said in the neighborhood QT that he was going to be a "dick" towards TA, but I guess Faust is taking care of that. However, I'm pretty upset that he is behaving in this manner, especially so early on in the game when we just got started.

I'm not sure on TA. I can see him reacting the way he is reacting if he were either scum or town. So, he is null. But, I do sympathize with him with the way reinoe has treated him.

As far as Ash, I want to see more of his ideas, but right now, I am pretty null on him.

I get a townie vibe from e. Yet, some players seem to think he's scum. Can someone explain the full case on him?

WW seems like WW to me. I believe I have only played town games with him, so I have a town read on him for now.

Hydrad seems  a bit different to me, as if his play style has evolved. Either he has gotten better as a player since the last games I've played with him, or he's scum this game.

Awaculus and Teproc are providing content which is mostly good, but I'm null on them for now. Soooo many players this game. It's hard to analyze content. At least, that's how it is for me.

Ichi seems pretty consistent with his play style in the past. But, I feel maybe he is just a little different. My gut tells me as the game progresses that it will be much easier to get a read on him.

My experience with ADK is pretty limited. Yesterday, I think it was him that said something that stuck out to me as kind of scummy, but I can't remember now, and I have been up almost 24 hours and just got home from work, so I'm not going to go look for it at the moment. After I've had some rest I will try to find what he said.

Xeiron is pretty null. I can't really recall any of his posts. Same goes for chairs. Though, as far as lurkers, the player I'm most curious about is pit. I don't remember him posting at all.

And, finally, SS is being SS. Switching up his play style as usual. I do find that behavior anti-town.

After I've had some sleep and can think with a clear mind, I will put a vote down.

For now Unvote

[Witherweaver]

I don't really care for the way reinoe is aggressively pushing your lynch,

How do you lynch scum on this forum?  Do you just sheep each other until someone accidentally gets lynched via extended RVS?

I have absolutely no trouble with people being aggressive or pushing cases in a hard manner. And I normally see it as a townie trait (as long as it's not on me). However, I see basically no evidence for why you think TA is scum. Aggressively pushing (what I think) is a case with virtually no support is scummy.

Really, I have a hard time thinking you actually want to lynch TA as it comes off as so overeager it almost seems sarcastic.

I don't know; scum doesn't like to push cases that are weak.  Because they know they're weak.  Town is more likely to push them, because (1) it could just be a gut read thing even if the argument itself isn't good, and (2) maybe you hit something, a la you caught scum for the wrong reasons.

I'm not a fan of what Reinoe is doing here at all, but it's less likely from scum.  At least scum on this forum; it's possible Mafiascum is different.

[Teproc]

BA, do you have a comment on ash's out of nowhere town read on you (or exclusion of his lynch pool anyway) ?

[Witherweaver]

I don't really care for the way reinoe is aggressively pushing your lynch,

How do you lynch scum on this forum?  Do you just sheep each other until someone accidentally gets lynched via extended RVS?

I have absolutely no trouble with people being aggressive or pushing cases in a hard manner. And I normally see it as a townie trait (as long as it's not on me). However, I see basically no evidence for why you think TA is scum. Aggressively pushing (what I think) is a case with virtually no support is scummy.

Really, I have a hard time thinking you actually want to lynch TA as it comes off as so overeager it almost seems sarcastic.

He's claimed scum.  Excuse me for being excited about a D1 scumclaim.  "Herp a derp I was suspicious about you because of my role PM and not any of your behavior before the game even started".  So in your universe that mindset is town?

TA is very likely town based only on his post about his reaction to his role PM alone.  Scum doesn't say stuff like that.

[Beyond Awesome]

BA, do you have a comment on ash's out of nowhere town read on you (or exclusion of his lynch pool anyway) ?

I really have no idea to be honest. I'm curious about that as well since I haven't had much opportunity to post much.

[Beyond Awesome]

I have a small plan. It's not much, but can we list all the possible "others." This might give us a better idea of mafia and also what their powers might be. I watched Lost a while ago, so I remember most of the people.

We have the Smoke Monster.

Umm, there's the bald guy with the scar on his eye who used to be in a wheel chair. I can see him being either town or scum.

Then, we have the others.

There was the doctor they sent into the camp that was supposed to take Claires baby, but he got murdered early on.

There's the leader guy, forget, his name.

There's the hot chick who recently appeared in Once Upon a Time as the Snow Queen.

Umm, who else? I know there were a lot more others. I know a lot of you think there might just be 4 scum, but I would not be surprised if the number was larger.

Oh, and guys, let's think about what these "villians" did in the show. What do you guys think they can do? Based on my role, this game seems very tied to flavor. So, I think we might be able to get at least somewhat of an idea of what to expect.

[Teproc]

I don't think it's good to have that kind of conversation. It will probably reveal a lot of info on what town knows or doesn't know, which only helps scum. I also don't want to help scum who doesn't know the flavor, so it's probably best to only discuss it once people claim stuff, to see if it fits.

[xeiron]

I don't think it's good to have that kind of conversation. It will probably reveal a lot of info on what town knows or doesn't know, which only helps scum. I also don't want to help scum who doesn't know the flavor, so it's probably best to only discuss it once people claim stuff, to see if it fits.

I agree.
There are so few here that know the flavor, so there is a decent possibility that no scum do.
In a flavor-heavy game that might lead to their downfall.

[Witherweaver]

reinoe : please calm down. Hystrionics like "he claimed scum" don't do well here, this isn't mafiascum, we don't enjoy shouting at each other.

Here's what I think of the TA/reinoe situation :

TA didn't speak a lot in the neighborhood because he thinks neighborhoords are of dubious utility to town, I'm pretty sure he's said this in previous games, and there is a very specific precedent on f.ds of scum using a neighborhood to successfully manipulate town (Robz in M31).

I don't think TA put a lot of weight in the whole husband/wife thing because he doesn't know the flavor and kinda ignored it, which is a mistake in RMM but whatever.

When TA said "as soon as I got my role PM", he obviously wasn't referencing the flavor, he was referencing the neighborhood and the fact that he's suspicious of them because you don't know the other guys alignment which means you should be careful. You might disagree with his decision to basically not engage, that's fine, but it's not"claiming scum" and I'm pretty sure you understand that and are just being super-hyperbolic because that's fun for you.

It's dumb though. Because this case is obviously extremely weak, yet you present it as if we're all idiots for not lynching TA, so where's your credibility now ? When you later make a better case, there's nowhere left for you to go, and no one will listne to you, so great job there.

I suggest we move on from this whole thing, as I'm reasonably convinced you're both town and this is a waste of time. Oh, and TA : if you're unhappy with playing a game here, it's still time to replace out. Either that or don't complain about being a game as soon as someone gets aggressive with you, I mean come on.

Not so convinced about e anymore.

vote: chairs

TA's reaction was probably somewhat related to flavor, as the two characters are flavor-connected, but are they alignment-connected?  He has to start wondering that, and then you get into a kind of WIFOM with the mod thing. 

[XerxesPraelor]

I'd be willing to vote reinoe, but I'm leaning toward a gut vote: ADK All he's done this game is try to lynch me without really any basis.

[xxpittip]

Plan update:

All that really matters is tomorrow, I guess.  I suspect I'll be slammed by a few of you for the idea, but it's worth discussing (and doing, in the end), regardless of the risk.

For today, lynch, no-lynch, whatever.  I think it's been a pretty good day 1 so far, and not so crazy long yet.

We should try to do some lynch POE...

1. Teproc
2. Hydrad
3. XerxesPraelor
4. Witherweaver
5. silverspawn
6. Beyond Awesome
7. ashersky
8. Ichimaru Gin
9. xeiron
10. chairs
11. Awaclus
12. 2.71828...
13. xxpittip
14. Twistedarcher
15. A Drowned Kernel
16. reinoe

Strikethroughs are not options for today, bolds are preferred, regular are meh.

XP and xeiron are a pair -- I'd lynch one just so we only have one x-name in the game since I confuse them with each other all the time.
TA and reinoe are a pair -- as you know.
xxpittip is the only player that sticks out as both active and lynchworthy.

Why do you think i'm lynchworthy? I disagreed with your plans, but i told you the reasons and nobody seemed to know how the plan benefits us. The only benefit i can image is if you have a PR that activates when someone is at L-1 (you could be told what their powers are or something like that). But a role like that could also be scum (not as likely, but still possible), which would be a huge disaster for us if we follow the plan.

"XP and xeiron are a pair -- I'd lynch one just so we only have one x-name in the game since I confuse them with each other all the time."
Is this the only reason why their names are bold or is there more behind it?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I might be ok with lynching XP today. I can see scum volunteering to be put to L-1 because I guess it looks kind of townie. That seems a little cheap though given his wagon was like 100% artificial.

We still have what, like 4 days? This day has actually been pretty small considering how many players we have.

I'm gonna unvote for now. Also, xxpittip gets mislynched like a lot. And I trust Hydrad much less after MM. To me, his town and scum play are very similar--and I normally can't tell the difference.

[Witherweaver]

I might be ok with lynching XP today. I can see scum volunteering to be put to L-1 because I guess it looks kind of townie. That seems a little cheap though given his wagon was like 100% artificial.

We still have what, like 4 days? This day has actually been pretty small considering how many players we have.

I'm gonna unvote for now. Also, xxpittip gets mislynched like a lot. And I trust Hydrad much less after MM. To me, his town and scum play are very similar--and I normally can't tell the difference.

I don't understand what you mean about "that seems a little cheap".  What seems cheap?  What position are you taking on XP exactly?

I'm feeling XP myself.

Vote: XP

[Ichimaru Gin]

It seems a little cheap to lynch him after everyone voted him as part of the "put everyone to L-1 plan". I don't know. Maybe scum thought that sort of thought process would help them not get lynched if they volunteered like XP did today.

I'd be ok with lynching him today, but I might prefer a no-lynch.

[reinoe]

TwistedArcher has claimed scum.  Why aren't we lynching obvious scum?

make a real case.  TA has done nothing scummy whatsoever.  You have claimed the neighborhood and his flavor name.  Both of which might have been used later on during night or on future days depending on his role

In fact here's the discussion in the neighborhood (paraphrased)
TwistedArcher:who you? (this original post is four words)
me: my name's reinoe. here's a paragraph about me and I miss isotropic.
Twisted archer: I'm twistedarcher. enjoy your first game here
me:here's a paragraph about my unfamiliarity with the theme and i'm diving into the lostwikipedia now
Twisted:yup (his original response was two words)
me: here's a small paragraph on my thoughts about asherkey's plan.
twisted:here's a one sentence response.

Cool.  TA pisses and moans about how I outed the neighborhood, but he never brought up whether the neighborhood should be outed at all.  Ever.  Even though he posted first. 

2) TwistedArcher was deliberately not providing content in the neighborhood.  That's scummy.

3) Why is he pissing and moaning about outing the neiborhood?  He clearly had no intention of using it for anything productive.  He wasn't interrogating me and he wasn't giving content.  Why is he complaining? 

4) TA is being coy about there being no benefit to outing the neighborhood.  We know each other so if the neighborhood never gets outed he can kill me and fake-claim a name that's not in the game.  Now that it's outed he can't fake-claim a name neither can I.  Of course since I'm town I had nothing to hide anyway.

5) TwistedArcher is saying he is suspicious of me based on the role PM.  That makes no sense.  His role PM had us both as husband and wife.  That's not suspicious.  His role PM had us being neighbors in a two person neighborhood.  That's not suspicious.  Him claiming that his role makes him suspicious is absolute garbage.

You are really exaggerating TA's reaction to you claiming the neighborhood.

Did you actually claim to just get reactions?

In what way?  TA had a temper tantrum that the neighborhood got revealed.  Tell me what scumhunting has TA performed this game?  Any at all?  Have you seen any indication he is trying to solve this game?

There sure are a lot of unjustified townreads casually tossed about for TA.  You don't think that's at all bizarre for someone who's done 0 scumhunting? His only contribution this game is running up the XP wagon.

[faust]

Robz888 has replaced Twistedarcher.

[Witherweaver]

In what way?  TA had a temper tantrum that the neighborhood got revealed.  Tell me what scumhunting has TA performed this game?  Any at all?  Have you seen any indication he is trying to solve this game?

There sure are a lot of unjustified townreads casually tossed about for TA.  You don't think that's at all bizarre for someone who's done 0 scumhunting? His only contribution this game is running up the XP wagon.

Temper tantrum... you keep using that word.  I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Ichimaru Gin]

yay. Robz is here! 

Wow, it's been a while since I played a game with him.

[reinoe]

reinoe : please calm down. Hystrionics like "he claimed scum" don't do well here, this isn't mafiascum, we don't enjoy shouting at each other.

Here's what I think of the TA/reinoe situation :

TA didn't speak a lot in the neighborhood because he thinks neighborhoords are of dubious utility to town, I'm pretty sure he's said this in previous games, and there is a very specific precedent on f.ds of scum using a neighborhood to successfully manipulate town (Robz in M31).

Do you think I'm trying to manipulate TA in the neighborhood?  Did you see TA's content that he's not even contesting?  If anyone is trying to manipulate it was him trying to manipulate me.

I don't think TA put a lot of weight in the whole husband/wife thing because he doesn't know the flavor and kinda ignored it, which is a mistake in RMM but whatever.

So you admit he made a mistake?

When TA said "as soon as I got my role PM", he obviously wasn't referencing the flavor, he was referencing the neighborhood and the fact that he's suspicious of them because you don't know the other guys alignment which means you should be careful. You might disagree with his decision to basically not engage, that's fine, but it's not"claiming scum" and I'm pretty sure you understand that and are just being super-hyperbolic because that's fun for you.

And as scum he could just as easily not be engaging as an excuse to prevent me from getting a read on him.  It has nothing to do with being fun for me: it has everything to do with TwistedArcher claiming scum.  Get into his head: not contributing, not interrogating me in the neighborhood, not scumhunting, complaining about the neighborhood getting outed even though he never brought it up in the neighborhood and pretending he can't see any reason for claiming the neighborhood all speak to a dishonest mindset.
What kind of people claim "I can't see anything good that's ever come from poor people/Russia/Mexicans".  TwistedArcher is lazy when it comes to this game at best and speaking from a dishonest perspective at worst. 

It's dumb though. Because this case is obviously extremely weak, yet you present it as if we're all idiots for not lynching TA, so where's your credibility now ? When you later make a better case, there's nowhere left for you to go, and no one will listne to you, so great job there.

You're pre-emptively trying to justify excusing TA's obvious scum behavior.  And I see a lot of sheeping/borderline RVS voting still taking place.  Maybe I should propose a plan that I don't explain that involves lynching TA to see what happens people will hop onboard.

[Witherweaver]

If it wasn't clear what I meant about announcing the neighborhood to get reactions, it is thus:

You announced it out of nowhere, TA displayed some mild disapproval, and you immediately jumped on him for throwing a (completely fictitious) hissy fit.  Since then you've just been more and more belligerent.  There was not, evidently, more heated disapproval from TA in the neighborhood, because you've stated he hasn't posted there.  This makes me think that you were ready to jump on TA for how he would react to the neighborhood announcement, which makes me think that was your original intention. 

[Witherweaver]

tl;dr: TA has a different playstyle from me and therefore he is a bad player and scum.

I strongly advise you attempt a different avenue here.

[Witherweaver]

And, by the way, the part about TA being scum based on his play so far is, I would argue, incorrect.  (Sure, he may be scum, but I hardly think the points you raise are much evidence).  However, things like calling him lazy is not appropriate, and, like stop. 

[reinoe]

If it wasn't clear what I meant about announcing the neighborhood to get reactions, it is thus:

You announced it out of nowhere, TA displayed some mild disapproval, and you immediately jumped on him for throwing a (completely fictitious) hissy fit.  Since then you've just been more and more belligerent.  There was not, evidently, more heated disapproval from TA in the neighborhood, because you've stated he hasn't posted there.  This makes me think that you were ready to jump on TA for how he would react to the neighborhood announcement, which makes me think that was your original intention.

I have a huge problem with someone complaining about outing a neighborhood when they never brought it up and also weren't using the neighborhood for anything worthwhile.  I also take umbrage with "I can't think of any reason to out the neighborhood" which is hard to see as an honest statement. 

Furthermore there was no justification for him stating "if scum didn't know about the neighborhood now they have a benefit".  Do we ever find out what that mysterious benefit is?  Or was it just another unexplained thing that goes rampant in this game?  Oh wait maybe everyone is roleplaying the show?  Things happen without explanation and then we find out two seasons later in a flashback?  (still reading the wiki).

[Robz888]

Hey guys! Sorry I'm late, I was hanging out in the tail section or something. (That's a joke, not a flavor hint.) I had decided to retire from mafia, but couldn't really pass up an opportunity to get in to this game.

I haven't even read the thread yet, so bear with me.

[Robz888]

For anyone who doesn't know me, I am Robz888. I played every regular game of mafia on this forum, games 1 through 50. I am also one of the world's foremost scholars of "Lost," having blogged for a fan site during the show's run.

Be afraid, scum.

[Teproc]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

[Witherweaver]

By benefit he's just saying they now have knowledge they didn't before.  The only point he was trying to make was that, if scum was in the neighborhood, then they have no new information from the claim.  If they weren't, now they know.  There wasn't anything too substantial said here.  The entire issue is very minor.

Well, unless I don't know Mafia theory about neighborhoods/claiming.  Maybe there are strategic questions, I don't know.

[Teproc]

Hey guys! Sorry I'm late, I was hanging out in the tail section or something. (That's a joke, not a flavor hint.) I had decided to retire from mafia, but couldn't really pass up an opportunity to get in to this game.

{Ana Lucia, Mr. Eko, Libby, Bernard... Goodwin ?}...

Wait, you already claimed Sun (or was it Jin ?), crap.

PPE : 1

[Ichimaru Gin]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

Yep I'm cool with it. I'm only saying it's a possibility though. I only said it since scum might have tried to WIFOM the joke I made earlier. So I thought it might be worth it for that.

[Teproc]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

Yep I'm cool with it. I'm only saying it's a possibility though. I only said it since scum might have tried to WIFOM the joke I made earlier. So I thought it might be worth it for that.

I don't follow, what was the joke and what does it have do with proposing yourself for the L-1 plan ?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Robz is here. Awesome, I have someone to talk flavor with.

Ichi : you do realize you're saying XP is scummy for saying "put me at L-1, I don't care"... when you did the exact same thing ?

@reinoe : I can't even. Everyone here disagrees with you about TA "claiming scum". Are you certain that you're right and we're all wrong ? After having played a grand total of 0 games with him ?

PPE : 3

Yep I'm cool with it. I'm only saying it's a possibility though. I only said it since scum might have tried to WIFOM the joke I made earlier. So I thought it might be worth it for that.

I don't follow, what was the joke and what does it have do with proposing yourself for the L-1 plan ?

I joked that I was hated scum and afterwards thought it might be used against me (you know, cause some people think jokes are scummy and all). It's not like I put a ton of thought into it. At that point, it seemed like we were actually gonna try and put as many people to L-1 as possible, so I figured I might as well volunteer.

[Teproc]

Right, and your reasoning is that because XP didn't have a specific reason to put himself forward, that makes it scummy ?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Right, and your reasoning is that because XP didn't have a specific reason to put himself forward, that makes it scummy ?

That is one component. I'd rather not into the rest right now, because reasons (there are other reasons).

Note that I'm not voting for him though. I think his behavior can be interpreted in multiple perhaps equally valid ways.

[ashersky]

As far as flavor and "villains" go, I think we aren't going to be able to guess.  I mean, you can make Sawyer a villain if you want.  Plus, I'd guess scum have safe claims.

[Teproc]

As far as flavor and "villains" go, I think we aren't going to be able to guess.  I mean, you can make Sawyer a villain if you want.  Plus, I'd guess scum have safe claims.

I disagree with the first part. There are characters (Sawyer being one of them) that I have a very hard time seeing as villains.

Scum certainly has fakeclaims, but for example I don't see how Sun or Jin could be scum, the fact that they're in a neighborhood corroborates their claim.

That's not an absolute : of course faust could have taken liberties, but I certainly don't want to lynch either TA or reinoe for that reason, at least for now.

[ashersky]

As for the game...

vote: reinoe

I have a longstanding "don't lynch new players on D1" rule, but I'm willing to waive that here.  Why?

1) He's crying wolf at the top of his lungs.  Some choice bits include "he's claimed scum" and "he's done zero scum hunting" as undeniable truths about TA.  These are disingenuous at the least and overtly hostile at worst.

2) He's being purposefully obtuse.  Acting as if he didnt understand what TA and others meant about the neighborhood, utility, scum knowledge, etc.  He's obsfucating.

3) The early, unprovoked, unneeded, useless claim.  All of those adjectives are why scum wants to pull off that claim and why town wouldn't do it recklessly.  It was completely safe, give town zero useful knowledge, and could seemingly buy the claimant town cred.

4) Overt hostility for (seemingly) no reason.

Why those specific things?  He actually reminds me of me in my earlier scum days.  I've successfully railroaded town into turning against each other by doing all of those things.  It got to the point where a longtime mod/player/pal here on f.ds accused me of trying to break people to the point of /outing from the game to have less town players to mislynch. (I wasn't.)

tldr: Everything I noted about reinoe's play is what I expect from an aggressive scum style.

[ashersky]

As far as flavor and "villains" go, I think we aren't going to be able to guess.  I mean, you can make Sawyer a villain if you want.  Plus, I'd guess scum have safe claims.

I disagree with the first part. There are characters (Sawyer being one of them) that I have a very hard time seeing as villains.

Scum certainly has fakeclaims, but for example I don't see how Sun or Jin could be scum, the fact that they're in a neighborhood corroborates their claim.

That's not an absolute : of course faust could have taken liberties, but I certainly don't want to lynch either TA or reinoe for that reason, at least for now.

You sir, are cra-cra.  Or you forgot about season 1, the gun, hoarding, etc.  Sawyer was a bad dude.  He was redeemed, though.  But not at first.  What was his job before the crash?  Oh right.

[Teproc]

I don't disagre that he was a bad dude, I disagree that he could be in a scum faction. But whatever, let's not talk too much about that.

I disagree with your case on reinoe. People can be aggressive as town too... in fact you've done it multiple times (not to that extent but still).

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

[Hydrad]

oh i thought reinoe was a completely new player. I'm guessing he plays on mafiascum though?

Hmm if so that changes my read on him as I felt a first time player this would be town behaviour. But now i'm seeing a scum possibility from him if hes played this game before.

Although I'm a bit worried that the metas of mafiascum and fds might just not get along well.

Still i'm ok with a vote: reinoe

[Witherweaver]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

Get one MVP scum award and all the sudden you're mister suspect.

[xeiron]

I am not sure how to read Reinoe, but I think he is the best lynch today.
I'll join in on:
vote: reinoe

[ashersky]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

Get one MVP scum award and all the sudden you're mister suspect.

Are you talking about Teproc or you?

[Hydrad]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

Get one MVP scum award and all the sudden you're mister suspect.

Are you talking about Teproc or you?

Teproc got the MVP scum award in M54.

[Witherweaver]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

Get one MVP scum award and all the sudden you're mister suspect.

Are you talking about Teproc or you?

Teproc; he got MVP in the game that Ichi is referencing. 

[XerxesPraelor]

I can go with

vote: reinoe

[ashersky]

I don't disagre that he was a bad dude, I disagree that he could be in a scum faction. But whatever, let's not talk too much about that.

I disagree with your case on reinoe. People can be aggressive as town too... in fact you've done it multiple times (not to that extent but still).

I'd probably mix it up on purpose, given the Lost afficianados I would have expected to have in the game (Robz, me, etc.).  Like, Juliet is another example of bad turned good.  Lost had a lot of that.  Linus was bad gone good.  Etc.

Personally, I hope there's some Jacob/Man-in-Black stuff.

[Awaclus]

I'm not opposed to a reinoe lynch. I don't really get a scum feel from his posts in a vacuum, but I don't really get them from a town perspective either, and assuming without checking that Ichi is correct and telling the truth about people subtly defending reinoe, I agree that it's suspicious.

vote: reinoe

[ashersky]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

Get one MVP scum award and all the sudden you're mister suspect.

Are you talking about Teproc or you?

Teproc; he got MVP in the game that Ichi is referencing.

Gotcha.

I will say, doing well as scum one game can affect your ability to survive as town in a future game.  Trust me, I KNOW.

[Awaclus]

Also I think this is L-2.

[Teproc]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

Get one MVP scum award and all the sudden you're mister suspect.

Thats fair though. I certainly got more suspicious of you after you fooled me five hundred times, that's only natural.

I don't think I'm "subtly" defending reinoe though, I'm plainly doing it. I can't say I have a great alternate case, but I think scum is mostly silent right now.

PPE : That being said...

vote : Awaclus

One of the few active people I don't have a town read on. I'll investigate that in a minute.

@ash : Yeah Juliet and Ben could have both alignments, definitely. I'm arguing that Sawyer couldn't really, though he could easily be a provided fakeclaim. Also man-in-black is more or less confirmed to be in the game since xeiron asked about it earlier.

[Awaclus]

vote : Awaclus

Does this syntax work now?

[Teproc]

Wanting to lynch someone because people are defending him is crazy. There could be a million different reasons for that, the main of which would be that it's what town does. If people want to lynch someone who I think is town, I'll defend them. And if you're town, you should do that to. Scum gets uncomfortable when they face resistance. There's nothing scum loves more than the "eh, why not" wagons.

[Teproc]

Ugh.

vote: Awaclus

[Hydrad]

I'm trying to keep up with this flavor by using google to read up on who the people are... I don't know if that will help at all or not though.

I'm just probably going to trust the people that know the flavor instead of trusting google because on man I have no idea what they are talking about lol.

[Awaclus]

Wanting to lynch someone because people are defending him is crazy. There could be a million different reasons for that, the main of which would be that it's what town does. If people want to lynch someone who I think is town, I'll defend them. And if you're town, you should do that to. Scum gets uncomfortable when they face resistance. There's nothing scum loves more than the "eh, why not" wagons.

Yes, but town doesn't have to defend people subtly.

[Teproc]

Rereading Awaclus, he does have some content. He went along with the L-1 plan which I don't fully understand but too many people did it for it to be scummy. He has the weird XP unvote and not much else, except for a reasonably townie reactoin to ash's big reads post.

Not that great a lynch today probably. unvote

PPE : Sure, but Ichi caracterized me as subtly defending him, and I'd disagree with that.

[Awaclus]

PPE : Sure, but Ichi caracterized me as subtly defending him, and I'd disagree with that.

I quickly re-read you and ADK and you're right. And ADK defending reinoe wasn't really all that suspicious either.

[Hydrad]

I'll let you guys know I'm going to be claiming something before night about my role. I'm just debating waiting till twilight or not. I think 24 hours should be enough to discuss a couple things about the night.

This is probably where me not knowing the flavor could hurt us a bit though.

[2.71828.....]

Ash, do you have some special mafia power (not game-specific) where you say something and everyone immediately sheeps you?

You say no-lynch, 4 people (ADK, Ichi, Hydrad, Awaclus) immediately jump on it.

You say lynch reinoe, 5 people (Ichi, hydrad, xeiron, xp, awaclus) immediately jump on it.

Now, one thing that I think this points to is that of {Ichi, hydrad, awaclus} it is probably very likely that at most 2 are scum, but I could probably see only one of them being scum.  Because you really think scum would sheep together like that so quickly?  I doubt it.

I still like my xeiron vote, but am willing to switch to {hydrad, awaclus}

[Hydrad]

Ash, do you have some special mafia power (not game-specific) where you say something and everyone immediately sheeps you?

You say no-lynch, 4 people (ADK, Ichi, Hydrad, Awaclus) immediately jump on it.

You say lynch reinoe, 5 people (Ichi, hydrad, xeiron, xp, awaclus) immediately jump on it.

Now, one thing that I think this points to is that of {Ichi, hydrad, awaclus} it is probably very likely that at most 2 are scum, but I could probably see only one of them being scum.  Because you really think scum would sheep together like that so quickly?  I doubt it.

I still like my xeiron vote, but am willing to switch to {hydrad, awaclus}

He also said get everyone to L-1. I didn't sheep that one! so that means i'm town.

[Awaclus]

He also said get everyone to L-1. I didn't sheep that one! so that means i'm town.

Dammit, I did!

[silverspawn]

I don't think reinoe is a good lynch. From what I can say, his playstyle so far isn't hostile at all by mafiascum standards, and really he is right about TA not having posted any content (and I also don't see why claiming a neighborhood is a bad thing).

I like Teproc's posts. Suspecting someone because people defend him is crazy, and I obviously agree with him on reinoe.

I don't want to lynch XP. I really feel that him volunteering to be put on L-1 was genuine.

I think I'll vote: BA, his list seems... forced. Also, I'm playing normal. This is my normal playstyle. Yeesh.

He also said get everyone to L-1. I didn't sheep that one! so that means i'm town.

Dammit, I did!

I'm not sure if joking is a scum tell for you or not.

[reinoe]

I see RVS lasts well past page 15 on this forum.

I longingly await Asherky submitting examples of TwistedArcher scumhunting.

@MOD
Is "the button" considered a player in this game?  i.e. can it be vigged?  Can it be "watched"?  Can someone be tracked to "the button"? 

[Awaclus]

I'm not sure if joking is a scum tell for you or not.

You should be. How many completely serious posts by me you can remember?

[silverspawn]

I'm not sure if joking is a scum tell for you or not.

You should be. How many completely serious posts by me you can remember?

I don't think I can remember many posts by you, period. They usually don't rhyme or are put together in any other way that would make them memorable.

If you mean, of how many posts of you can I recall that they were serious - a lot. You usually make serious posts, either that or your humor is lost on me.

[Witherweaver]

I see RVS lasts well past page 15 on this forum.

I longingly await Asherky submitting examples of TwistedArcher scumhunting.

@MOD
Is "the button" considered a player in this game?  i.e. can it be vigged?  Can it be "watched"?  Can someone be tracked to "the button"?

I see arguing bogus cases lasts well beyond page reasonable poster where you're from.

[reinoe]

I see RVS lasts well past page 15 on this forum.

I longingly await Asherky submitting examples of TwistedArcher scumhunting.

@MOD
Is "the button" considered a player in this game?  i.e. can it be vigged?  Can it be "watched"?  Can someone be tracked to "the button"?

I see arguing bogus cases lasts well beyond page reasonable poster where you're from.

I longingly await Witherweaver and Asherkey submitting examples of TwistedArcher scumhunting.

[Robz888]

Okay, I read the thread. Lots of people making reasonable sense and having understandable disagreements. I was intrigued by ash's plan and basically trust that it's a good one, because ash generally proposes good town plans, even when he is scum! I was a little cooler about No Lynching, mostly because there are too many people in this game to keep track of, and cutting down on players, even town players, will probably help us focus. I don't, like, have a scum read on Teproc for doubting ash, though. If anything, that's very townie of him.

So townish on Teproc. Also Ichi for some early reasons I can't remember.

The button is interesting. Impossible to say whether it helps town or scum more on net, but I do think townies who are VT or possess weak powers should press it.

[Witherweaver]

I longingly await you to read this game.

TA Post 1-4: Theory, setup stuff.  Nothing wrong here, or noteworthy.

TA post 5:

E, multiple people have sheeped Ash, why does Ichi get singled out for the theory reason? You're saying your initial vote was throwing stuff out there, but clearly it's more than that, since you're exclusive voting Ichi for something that's not exclusive to Ichi.

Basically, your vote reads to me as "Vote Ichi because [extended theory talk that doesn't really mean anything]", it's a very generic theory that's not even exclusive to Ichi -- so it kinda reads as a bogus justification to me.

This is good and normal.


TA post 6:

I'm in a neighborhood with TwistedArcher btw.  Just the two of us.

Why claim this now?

Yeah, I'm a bit miffed by this..

This is where you claim he has a nuclear meltdown.  At this post most of the content is pointless discussion on this matter.  TA has not had much content up until this point, I agree, but there are many other players who have not as well.  Some players are not super active, especially towards the beginning of games, and it's okay to be suspicious of that, but your criticism has gone past the point of absurdity.  Especially since there was no need to single him out in the first place.

[Robz888]

So, the big issue is... my neighborhood buddy reinoe.

What he did was abysmally terrible, because it's much more pro-town to keep the neighbors QT secret for a while long at least, in absence of some really good reason to suspect TA (which he doesn't have, objectively).

That said, I do think he's town because of it. Ash presents an interesting case against him that had me second-guessing my instinct a bit... but I say he's town. It's a lot of fun for scum to hang out in a neighbors QT with town--I did it before, in M31, it was an Oscar-winning performance--and I just don't see him blowing that immediately for no reason. Also, if he's scum, surely his scumbuddies would instruct him to do the exact opposite of what he is doing.

So I say he's town. It's unfortunate that he's playing so anti-town, though. Don't think he's anti-town enough to lynch, although like I said, we have plenty of extra people, and I wouldn't exactly trust him down the stretch. And he's never getting night-killed by scum.

[Witherweaver]

"At this post" in my above post should say something like "After this point"

[Ichimaru Gin]

Wow. You guys are completely overgeneralizing what I said about people's defense of reinoe. I have somewhat of a townread on ADK--but Teproc is pretty much a null read. I think the points ash made against reinoe are good.

Please stop acting like I'm saying "oh noes, someone said they don't want to lynch player x. They must be scuuuuuuuuuuum". Because I'm not. It's not only annoying, but also scummy.

[Teproc]

We are responding to an argument you made when voting for reinoe. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have made the argument.

[Teproc]

@reinoe : do you have reads beside TA being obvscum and all of us being idiots for not seeing that ?

[Teproc]

Well I should say Robz at this point rather than TA.

[Ichimaru Gin]

We are responding to an argument you made when voting for reinoe. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have made the argument.

You are manufacturing a strawman argument that I didn't make (defending someone is scummy), and then attacking that. I did not make that argument.

I don't see much evidence behind your defense of reinoe aside from WIFOM. You see his behavior as something that town would do, I disagree.

[Witherweaver]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

I don't understand what you're saying Teproc is misinterpreting. 

[Teproc]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

[Witherweaver]

You seem to pretty directly say that people subtly defending Reinoe is evidence that Reinoe is scum (and, by extension, some of those defending him).

[ashersky]

I longingly await Witherweaver and Asherkey submitting examples of TwistedArcher scumhunting.

Why?  TA's not playing the game anymore, and we aren't lynching Robz anyway.



One thing I will say is, I am think it is extremely unlikely that reinoe and Robz888 are scum buddies pulling a gambit with the Neighborhood claim.  If TA hadn't quit, I would have considered it a possibility.  But there's no reason to fake claim and fake a fight if one of you is going to quit.

[Witherweaver]

I longingly await Witherweaver and Asherkey submitting examples of TwistedArcher scumhunting.

Why?  TA's not playing the game anymore, and we aren't lynching Robz anyway.



One thing I will say is, I am think it is extremely unlikely that reinoe and Robz888 are scum buddies pulling a gambit with the Neighborhood claim.  If TA hadn't quit, I would have considered it a possibility.  But there's no reason to fake claim and fake a fight if one of you is going to quit.

I agree.

[ashersky]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

I don't understand what you're saying Teproc is misinterpreting.

When I say "you" I'm not just referring to Teproc. For some reason, people seem to think that I stated that across the board, defending other players is scummy--and that that's also my major reason for suspecting reinoe (hint: it's not).

PPE: Yes. I find the way that he was defended to be suspect. I think it was weak argument.

PPE: Ash. Thank you.

[Ichimaru Gin]

*a weak argument.

[Witherweaver]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

[ashersky]

The button is interesting. Impossible to say whether it helps town or scum more on net, but I do think townies who are VT or possess weak powers should press it.

This is exactly right, and there needs not be more discussion.  It's up to you, reader.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

I think it's just as likely that scum weakly defends town for the credit as their own partners. I voted reinoe, but I also wanted to metion my reads of those defending him.

[Teproc]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

I don't understand what you're saying Teproc is misinterpreting.

When I say "you" I'm not just referring to Teproc. For some reason, people seem to think that I stated that across the board, defending other players is scummy--and that that's also my major reason for suspecting reinoe (hint: it's not).

PPE: Yes. I find the way that he was defended to be suspect. I think it was weak argument.

PPE: Ash. Thank you.

Wait, what ? Which is it ? First you say it was an argument but a weak one, then you agree with ash saying it wasn't argument againstreinoe but one against ADK and me ?

We are responding to an argument you made when voting for reinoe. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have made the argument.

You are manufacturing a strawman argument that I didn't make (defending someone is scummy), and then attacking that. I did not make that argument.

I don't see much evidence behind your defense of reinoe aside from WIFOM. You see his behavior as something that town would do, I disagree.

So did I "manufacture a strawman argument" or just responded to a weak argument you did make ?

PPE : 4

[Teproc]

Why would scum "subtly" defend town ? I see why scum would clearly defend town (whiteknighting) but why be subtle aboutit then, if you want people to remember that you were against a mislynch ?

[Witherweaver]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

I think it's just as likely that scum weakly defends town for the credit as their own partners. I voted reinoe, but I also wanted to metion my reads of those defending him.

Okay if that's what you were trying to say, fine, but you certainly can't fault people with interpreting it as you have written.

[Witherweaver]

Why would scum "subtly" defend town ? I see why scum would clearly defend town (whiteknighting) but why be subtle aboutit then, if you want people to remember that you were against a mislynch ?

Content padding.

[Ichimaru Gin]

This is exactly the sort of thread-clogging stuff we probably want to avoid. I apologize for my part in it.

PPE: WW. I agree.

[ashersky]

I'm with ash on this one. vote: reinoe. He could be trying to frame him, but I don't like the subtle defenses people have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK iirc). I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment.

This is you clearly making the argument that people subtly defending reinoe makes him scummier, is it not ?

I read it as him casting suspicion on the defenders, not making reinoe scummier.

The "but" makes it counterpoint to the proceeding clause.  Ichi said "Maybe Reinoe is town (i.e., framed by scum!Ash), but here is some evidence against that thought".

If you want to parse it, I think the wording suggests that the "he" from right after the vote refers to "ashersky."  I think it would read:

"I'm with ash on this one.  vote: reinoe.  ash could be trying to frame reinoe, but I don't like the subtle defense non-ash-players have given reinoe (Teproc and ADK, for example).  I am a firm, firm believer that scum defends their partners, obviously, and I have like no trust of Teproc at the moment."

I think he missed the comma after partners in the last line and that he meant "I obviously am a firm believe that scum defends their partners" and NOT that the defense is done in an obvious manner.

[Witherweaver]

Well in terms of more relevance to the game.

I'm torn on Reinoe.  I had *exactly* the same thought Ash did earlier today (I even thought he reminded me of really aggressive and bold scum Ash a la Wheel of Time), but I'm still not sure someone would want to jump in a game as scum like that.  I had decided to wait for more info to post anything about it, so I found it kind of funny when Ash posts exactly what I was thinking.

PPE: That parsing just enforces my interpretation.. but anyway, let's not dwell on it as I don't think it's all that paramount.

[Teproc]

Well in terms of more relevance to the game.

I'm torn on Reinoe.  I had *exactly* the same thought Ash did earlier today (I even thought he reminded me of really aggressive and bold scum Ash a la Wheel of Time), but I'm still not sure someone would want to jump in a game as scum like that.  I had decided to wait for more info to post anything about it, so I found it kind of funny when Ash posts exactly what I was thinking.

I feel like there's a conclusion missing there.

[Witherweaver]

Well in terms of more relevance to the game.

I'm torn on Reinoe.  I had *exactly* the same thought Ash did earlier today (I even thought he reminded me of really aggressive and bold scum Ash a la Wheel of Time), but I'm still not sure someone would want to jump in a game as scum like that.  I had decided to wait for more info to post anything about it, so I found it kind of funny when Ash posts exactly what I was thinking.

I feel like there's a conclusion missing there.

I don't want to vote for him at the moment.  I was also steered away from it because a lot of other people jumped along on him very quickly, including XP, whom I don't have a great feeling about.

I was just sharing my thoughts.

[ashersky]

PPE: That parsing just enforces my interpretation.. but anyway, let's not dwell on it as I don't think it's all that paramount.

Last point on this from me: I think we disagree on his meaning (I think he was raising suspicions on the defenders while you think he was using the defenders as further evidence that reinoe is scummy).  Where we do agree is that the post itself is scummy.  I think subtly casting suspicions that way isn't towny.

That said, I'm not swayed to vote for him or anything.

[2.71828.....]

you guys should vote for xeiron

[Witherweaver]

you guys should vote for xeiron

Oh I forgot about that.. what was so wrong about his math post?  That it was essentially fluff?

[2.71828.....]

you guys should vote for xeiron

Oh I forgot about that.. what was so wrong about his math post?  That it was essentially fluff?

No, nothing has been wrong, per se, about his play.  He is just sliding under the radar without making any real commitments.  I know my first scum game that is how you guys nailed me.  I wanted to play the "cool and calm" guy who looked at everything and made an informed decision. 

I could see xeiron playing the same type of game.

[2.71828.....]

I was a little cooler about No Lynching, mostly because there are too many people in this game to keep track of, and cutting down on players, even town players, will probably help us focus.

I see Robz is IC again to make statements like this?

[xxpittip]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

[Witherweaver]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

For why?

[Teproc]

Robz, do you agree that it's unlikely for one of {Jin, Sun} to be scum for flavor reasons ? The answer thatit could be a fakeclaim doesn't really work for me because of the neighborhood.

I know you think reinoe is town anyway, but I'm asking purely based on flavor.

The xeiron case isn't bad in a vacuum but I think that's just his playstyle.

[Robz888]

I was a little cooler about No Lynching, mostly because there are too many people in this game to keep track of, and cutting down on players, even town players, will probably help us focus.

I see Robz is IC again to make statements like this?

Pretty much.

[Witherweaver]

Robz, do you agree that it's unlikely for one of {Jin, Sun} to be scum for flavor reasons ? The answer thatit could be a fakeclaim doesn't really work for me because of the neighborhood.

I know you think reinoe is town anyway, but I'm asking purely based on flavor.

The xeiron case isn't bad in a vacuum but I think that's just his playstyle.

The point here is that if scum were given fake claims, they wouldn't be given the things that go with those fake claims, like the neighborhood?

[Teproc]

Robz, do you agree that it's unlikely for one of {Jin, Sun} to be scum for flavor reasons ? The answer thatit could be a fakeclaim doesn't really work for me because of the neighborhood.

I know you think reinoe is town anyway, but I'm asking purely based on flavor.

The xeiron case isn't bad in a vacuum but I think that's just his playstyle.

The point here is that if scum were given fake claims, they wouldn't be given the things that go with those fake claims, like the neighborhood?

Yep.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'd be willing to vote reinoe, but I'm leaning toward a gut vote: ADK All he's done this game is try to lynch me without really any basis.

Well you never responded to this:

I don't get what the point of ash's plan is.

vote: reinoe

So why vote reinoe?

[ashersky]

There's no design reason you couldn't make one of Jin/Sun scum.  Nor is a there a flavor reason.

Remember, this is a game set in Lost -- it doesn't have to stay true to the series.  Maybe Sun died and the Man in Black is mascarading as her.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So there's a ton of ton of posts that I'm trying to catch up on, and most of it has to do with reinoe. I still think he's town, for reasons I've stated before. I super think that Robz is town. I think that XP jumping on the reinoe wagon makes me finer than ever with voting for him.

[Hydrad]

Is reinoe at L-1 or close by?

I've been trying to keep track but i'm not really sure where we are at right now. This many people is hard to keep track of.

[A Drowned Kernel]

People who were voting him have unvoted or changed their votes, so I don't think so. Did you want to hammer?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh, but pit is voting for him, which might put him back up there? Check before you vote, Hydrad.

[xeiron]

Is reinoe at L-1 or close by?

I've been trying to keep track but i'm not really sure where we are at right now. This many people is hard to keep track of.

Just counted.
7 votes = L-1

[silverspawn]

don't hammer. why does everyone get lynched early in his first game on this site?

I love that Robz is in this game now, by the way. I started pretty much right after he stopped playing, the only game we had was zelda which was kind of stupid.

I think the flavor question is really tricky to answer, because it heavily depends on how faust approaches game design.

I think e's case reads genuine. Not so sure about ADK.

[reinoe]

There's no design reason you couldn't make one of Jin/Sun scum.  Nor is a there a flavor reason.

Remember, this is a game set in Lost -- it doesn't have to stay true to the series.  Maybe Sun died and the Man in Black is mascarading as her.

Did you not see the statement I directed towards you?

[reinoe]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

So between Asherkey's hypocrisy, the slew of "me too" voters with poor justifications for their votes (see above), and the lack of counterwagon, this is quite obviously a scum motivated push.

[Teproc]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

So between Asherkey's hypocrisy, the slew of "me too" voters with poor justifications for their votes (see above), and the lack of counterwagon, this is quite obviously a scum motivated push.

Who specifically do you think is scum on your wagon ?

[xeiron]

Reads list:

1. Teproc - Solid play. He is there where something happends and generally makes sense when he is speaking. I hope he is town.
2. Hydrad. - Has been a background player so far.  Nothing he has said so far gives me pointes about his allignment. Null read.
3. XerxesPraelor - Also a background player.
4. Witherweaver- Have been active. I have not gotten much of a read on him, but I would not lynch him.
5. silverspawn - Null-read.
6. Beyond Awesome - Has little content. I hope to see more of him in the coming days
7. Ashersky - Usual ashersky-play with his plans. I want to hear what he has to say about them D2. Will not lynch today.
8. Ichimaru Gin - concerned about his own position, and gets defenive when cases are made of him. I undreastans that is usual for him. Active poster. slight town read
9. Xeiron - Town
10. chairs - Too little content
11. Awaclus - Has been in the background.
12. 2.71828... - Null-read
13. xxpittip - Too little content.
14. Twistedarcher/Robz - Has gotten much focus because of reinoe's case. I think he has reacted towny.
15. A Drowned Kernel - Have been active. Slight town read.
16. Reinoe - I do not how to read this guy. He has a different playstyle than the rest. I am fine with lynching him.

So this is mostly a bunch of null-reads with some townier reads. The lack of scumreads makes me more suscpicious those with little content and the ones who stays more in the background.

Willing to lynch: Hydrad, XP, silverspawn, BA, chairs, Awaclus, e, xxpittip, reinoe.

[reinoe]

I longingly await you to read this game.

TA Post 1-4: Theory, setup stuff.  Nothing wrong here, or noteworthy.

TA post 5:

E, multiple people have sheeped Ash, why does Ichi get singled out for the theory reason? You're saying your initial vote was throwing stuff out there, but clearly it's more than that, since you're exclusive voting Ichi for something that's not exclusive to Ichi.

Basically, your vote reads to me as "Vote Ichi because [extended theory talk that doesn't really mean anything]", it's a very generic theory that's not even exclusive to Ichi -- so it kinda reads as a bogus justification to me.

This is good and normal.


TA post 6:

So you have one example of of TwistedArcher scumhunting which is actually him sheeping an argument that several other posters have made?  Well I did say "examples" so the fact that you could only find one   example which involves him sheeping other people actually re-inforces my point.

@TEPROC
Asherkey's hypocrisy stands out very strongly (people defending reinoe means reinoe is scum/ignores people defending Twisted), but xx vote is among the worst of the "me too" voters.

[Teproc]

So this is mostly a bunch of null-reads with some townier reads. The lack of scumreads makes me more suscpicious those with little content and the ones who stays more in the background.

This is exactly where I am. My lynchpool is basically lurkers + Hydrad and WW.

[ashersky]

There's no design reason you couldn't make one of Jin/Sun scum.  Nor is a there a flavor reason.

Remember, this is a game set in Lost -- it doesn't have to stay true to the series.  Maybe Sun died and the Man in Black is mascarading as her.

Did you not see the statement I directed towards you?

Maybe not?  The only one that stands out is that you want me to point out where TA scumhunted.  WW did that for you.

I don't recall you saying anything directly to me about flavor.

[ashersky]

@TEPROC
Asherkey's hypocrisy stands out very strongly (people defending reinoe means reinoe is scum/ignores people defending Twisted), but xx vote is among the worst of the "me too" voters.

Where have I been hypocritical?  I don't think you mean what you think you mean.

I've said nothing about people defending you, other than to reference Ichimaru Gin's posts and the ensuring argument from there.

My entire case on you has nothing to do with anyone defending you.

[reinoe]

So one post of TA sheeping other people's arguments and it took two people to find THAT one example.  Cool.  I'm glad everyone is able to slowly see how those TA townreads that were being tossed out like candy were completely unsupported.

@ashersky
then I will have to re-read when I'm not at work.

[chairs]

wow.

just wow.

[ashersky]

wow.

just wow.

He's at L-1, you know...

[Teproc]

So one post of TA sheeping other people's arguments and it took two people to find THAT one example.  Cool.  I'm glad everyone is able to slowly see how those TA townreads that were being tossed out like candy were completely unsupported.

Can you quote people having townreads on TA/Robz based on scumhunting ? Otherwise you're arguing against wind.

I think TA/Robz is town based on flavor and just a gut feeling on the way the both posted. You can't just look at "scumhunting / not scumhunting" to determine if someone is town or not... because scum can do it too, very convincingly if they're good.

I actually don't think that many people expressed town reads on TA/Robz, it's just that people disagreed with your insane statement that he "claimed scum".

[Teproc]

wow.

just wow.

He's at L-1, you know...

I thought chairs was referring to the 10 page before he got the chance to check in.

The reinoe lynch is bad, don't do it.

[Hydrad]

So this is mostly a bunch of null-reads with some townier reads. The lack of scumreads makes me more suscpicious those with little content and the ones who stays more in the background.

This is exactly where I am. My lynchpool is basically lurkers + Hydrad and WW.

You should take one person out of that pool...

also I gave a reads list I havn't been trying to sit in the background.

[Witherweaver]

Sick of it.

Vote: Reinoe

Don't care if he's scum or not.  You guys can not like me.

[ashersky]

So one post of TA sheeping other people's arguments and it took two people to find THAT one example.  Cool.  I'm glad everyone is able to slowly see how those TA townreads that were being tossed out like candy were completely unsupported.

TA had 16 in-game posts before he quit.

If he had played the entire game, assuming he survived for a few days at least, he would have had hundreds.  You've not played here before, and you've not played a game with TA, but when he's town, he is a very valuable player who's insightful and smart.

He's not the greatest scum player in the world, actually (no offense TA).

The town reads some players here were "toss[ing] out like candy" were unsupported by his content.  I don't know that anyone would argue against that statement.  But some people start with auto-townreads, and that is based on prior experience, which you don't have here.

My point is, it's okay that people had TA as a townread without having any content to support it.  It's just a read.

Just like it's okay for you to have a scumread on TA without having any content to support it.

Lack of positive proof does not prove a negative.  Imagine this statement: "using black keyboards causes lung cancer."  I cannot definitively prove that black keyboards do NOT cause lung cancer, as that's an impossible task.  Just because I can't prove that doesn't make the statement true.

[ashersky]

Sick of it.

Vote: Reinoe

Don't care if he's scum or not.  You guys can not like me.

I'm okay with it.  What time is it in Germany?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Well okay then. 24 hours of twilight. Do we want to come to a decision on the button?

[ashersky]

Also, to help with reinoe providing wagon analysis before he dies (because I'd like to see it, Dominion: Gunpowder style), here's the wagon:

ashersky, IG, Hydrad, xeiron, XP, Awaclus, xxpittip, WW

[Witherweaver]

I support what Robz said re: button.

[ashersky]

Well okay then. 24 hours of twilight. Do we want to come to a decision on the button?

Oh right, twilight.  And twilight powers.

One point from me: if you are town and you can stop a lynch in twilight, take into consideration:

1)  There are a lot of players, which will generate a lot of content.  Don't underestimate the detriment to town that too many pages becomes in the late game.
2)  There is always info to be gained from a player's flip, his interactions with other players knowing his alignment, etc.
3)  There's a lot of focus on night in this game.

[ashersky]

I support what Robz said re: button.

Yeah, there's no need for more button talk.

Didn't someone want to claim during twilight?  Hydrad maybe?

[2.71828.....]

yeah, Hydrad said he had some stuff to claim

[Archetype]

On mobile, Faust can post the vote count later.

Renoie is lynched! Twilight has begun.

[Hydrad]

mini claim...

If anyone knows if Jacob has control of the island someone should target me tonight.

I just need one person to target me so if there is a group or something that knows only one person needs to do that.

If Jacob doesn't have control of the island it doesn't really matter.

[Hydrad]

Also I have no idea what it means by Jacob has control over the island. I tried asking faust how I would know if he had control and he said he couldn't give me that info.

[Teproc]

Hm. "If Jacob has control of the island", huh ?

That's... I mean Jacob is definitely a town character, but it can't just mean if the majority of players are town, because that's too easy.

[Teproc]

I retract what I said earlier about the Others being the main scum faction then, this could be a Jacob vs Man-in-Black thing, which, okay, makes Jin/Sun less ICish. Still expect reinoe to flip town here.

[Hydrad]

I guess it says "Jacob has power over the island" more specifically.

It also might mean as long as he hasn't died I thought? Ya I've tried a bit of brainstorming but maybe someone that knows the flavour will have a better idea.

[Ichimaru Gin]

whoa ok. We lynched reinoe.

PPE: flavor stuff I have no idea about.

[ashersky]

Jacob was generally completely "good" in the show.  I'd be hard to cast him in a scum light.

I'd be surprised if he's a player, though.  It sounds like a mechanic we don't understand (unless you know about it).

Interesting claim.

[Teproc]

I guess it says "Jacob has power over the island" more specifically.

It also might mean as long as he hasn't died I thought? Ya I've tried a bit of brainstorming but maybe someone that knows the flavour will have a better idea.

Basically Jacob and The Man in Black are two characters who've been engaged into a battle over the control of the island for centuries, for short.

In Lost, Jacob has a list of "candidates" which inclues a bunch of major characters who he wants to be the guardian of the island, and The Man-In-Black is kind of just trying to put a wrench in things and generally cause chaos, including impersonating dead people.

It's been a while since I've seen the show and the Jacob/MIB stuff has never been my favorite part so this might be imprecise and Robz or ash might correct it but that's the gist of it.

How it applies to what you said, I'm not sure.

PPE : Agree with ash.

[Hydrad]

My biggest worry though is that I don't want to get like 8 people targetting and waste some town powers.

I'm debating claiming on what happens if jacob is in power and I'm not targetted.

[reinoe]

I'm scum and all of my partners bussed which is why the wagon grew at breakneck speed.

I have a twilight power that I'm refusing to activate because bussing is stupid.

Is this WIFOM Shenanigans or Bittercakes fury?  Discuss.

[Teproc]

Yay, freaking WIFOM. Thanks a lot.

[Hydrad]

everyone loves WIFOM.

[Teproc]

everyone loves WIFOM.

Demonstrably false.

[Robz888]

I've asked reinoe to spill all details of any powers he might have in our QT. I doubt he complies, but we'll see.

I do think he's definitely town, though I'm pretty much fine with him getting lynched. And this seems like it was an okay Day 1.

As for the "Jacob controls the island" thing. So, I don't have any specific knowledge about what controls that. However, in the show, there are a list of "candidates" to replace Jacob. So it could have something to do with that. The characters who are candidates are Jack, John Locke, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, and either Jin or Sun (it's never clarified which one).

But this might be reaching, since the show implies that there were a lot of other candidates at one time, but they all got crossed the list at one point or another.

[XerxesPraelor]

He just admitted to be scum - he won't tell you his role.

[Hydrad]

I've asked reinoe to spill all details of any powers he might have in our QT. I doubt he complies, but we'll see.

I do think he's definitely town, though I'm pretty much fine with him getting lynched. And this seems like it was an okay Day 1.

As for the "Jacob controls the island" thing. So, I don't have any specific knowledge about what controls that. However, in the show, there are a list of "candidates" to replace Jacob. So it could have something to do with that. The characters who are candidates are Jack, John Locke, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, and either Jin or Sun (it's never clarified which one).

But this might be reaching, since the show implies that there were a lot of other candidates at one time, but they all got crossed the list at one point or another.

This kinda sounds like Jacob might have power over the island now but later in the game he might lose it?

In the show did Jacob start out with power over the island?

[Teproc]

By the way, WW : I don't care that you predicted being hated for it or whatever, that hammer was premature, I don't like it.

[XerxesPraelor]

I can't believe that actually worked. I joined the wagon thinking it wouldn't go anywhere because people don't like lynching early. Yay for non-derphammers!

And why don't we lynch ash when he does stuff like this?

[Archetype]

Vote Count 1.FINAL

XerxesPraelor (1):  A Drowned Kernel
xeiron (2): 2.71828..., Robz888
A Drowned Kernel (1): chairs
Beyond Awesome (1): silverspawn
reinoe ( 8 ): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, xeiron, XerxesPraelor, Awaclus, xxpittip, Witherweaver

Not Voting (3): xxpittip, Beyond Awesome, Teproc


Twilight has begun. If you have a twilight action, you have 24 hours (7PM on Friday the 9th) to submit it to Faust.

[Hydrad]

I can't believe that actually worked. I joined the wagon thinking it wouldn't go anywhere because people don't like lynching early. Yay for non-derphammers!

And why don't we lynch ash when he does stuff like this?

because I wanna hear the ashplan!

[ashersky]

Stuff like what?

[silverspawn]

I really, really don't like the lynch.

[silverspawn]

I feel like people are often too okay with lynching town day one. You should try to lynch scum, not town. And I don't think he was scum.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: silverspawn

He admitted he was scum.

[XerxesPraelor]

Stuff like what?

I mean making horrible cases and unjustified decisions. You haven't done it recently - I'm not making an accusation. It's just that this seemed that this was the first time we successfully lynched for that, and that's interesting (TM).

[Witherweaver]

vote: silverspawn

He admitted he was scum.

I'm not convinced he wasn't just trolling.

[Witherweaver]

By the way, WW : I don't care that you predicted being hated for it or whatever, that hammer was premature, I don't like it.

I know, but I don't feel bad about it. 

[Witherweaver]

Stuff like what?

I mean making horrible cases and unjustified decisions. You haven't done it recently - I'm not making an accusation. It's just that this seemed that this was the first time we successfully lynched for that, and that's interesting (TM).

Because Ash isn't a jerk and doesn't personally insult people when he makes bad cases. 

[silverspawn]

vote: silverspawn

He admitted he was scum.

His twilight post read more like town to be than scum.

[ashersky]

His twilight post is disregardable at best.

If he's town, I'd be interested in actual final thoughts (other than his thoughts on TA).

[XerxesPraelor]

Stuff like what?

I mean making horrible cases and unjustified decisions. You haven't done it recently - I'm not making an accusation. It's just that this seemed that this was the first time we successfully lynched for that, and that's interesting (TM).

Because Ash isn't a jerk and doesn't personally insult people when he makes bad cases. 

Fair enough.

[Robz888]

I've asked reinoe to spill all details of any powers he might have in our QT. I doubt he complies, but we'll see.

I do think he's definitely town, though I'm pretty much fine with him getting lynched. And this seems like it was an okay Day 1.

As for the "Jacob controls the island" thing. So, I don't have any specific knowledge about what controls that. However, in the show, there are a list of "candidates" to replace Jacob. So it could have something to do with that. The characters who are candidates are Jack, John Locke, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, and either Jin or Sun (it's never clarified which one).

But this might be reaching, since the show implies that there were a lot of other candidates at one time, but they all got crossed the list at one point or another.

This kinda sounds like Jacob might have power over the island now but later in the game he might lose it?

In the show did Jacob start out with power over the island?

Yes, he did. Although technically he never really lost it.

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: silverspawn

He admitted he was scum.

I'm not convinced he wasn't just trolling.

This.

If we have to eliminate someone to streamline the game, I think this was a good choice. I don't really find his post townie either. Sure, he's probably really ticked off at being lynched either way--but his WIFOM thing is anti-town. At the very least, he's not playing to his wincon, at worst, scum. If he was town and really cared about his wincon, he wouldn't do this. Barring some super secret thing that I don't know about--maybe he has a twilight power or something. Or he knows he won't actually die.

[2.71828.....]

If he doesn't actually die then we lynch him again.  Kind of like what happened to me in Guilds.  I quickhammered, everyone thought I was scummy for it (I just did it because I thought it would be fun (and I had a plan to try to trick the cop into investigating me and getting a town result)) and then I got lynched.  Didn't die, made all sorts of last-ditch crazy claims, then got lynched again.

Long story short.  If someone doesn't die, we should keep lynching them until they die.

[reinoe]

I can't believe that actually worked. I joined the wagon thinking it wouldn't go anywhere because people don't like lynching early. Yay for non-derphammers!

And why don't we lynch ash when he does stuff like this?

That was a derphammer, and the entire faction I'm aligned with is on my wagon.  I'm phone posting so I can't access the neighborhood because my phone hates Qt.  I wasn't joking about scum motivated push.  The lack of counterwagon, the speed.  That's a classic scum push.

[reinoe]

Stuff like what?

I mean making horrible cases and unjustified decisions. You haven't done it recently - I'm not making an accusation. It's just that this seemed that this was the first time we successfully lynched for that, and that's interesting (TM).

Because Ash isn't a jerk and doesn't personally insult people when he makes bad cases.

Your standards of "personal insult" are too high.  "Lazy" was not even an insult considering it was a direct reference to someone's play.  If you can't handle a player being called "lazy" in that context then I weep for you.

[ashersky]

I can't believe that actually worked. I joined the wagon thinking it wouldn't go anywhere because people don't like lynching early. Yay for non-derphammers!

And why don't we lynch ash when he does stuff like this?

That was a derphammer, and the entire faction I'm aligned with is on my wagon.  I'm phone posting so I can't access the neighborhood because my phone hates Qt.  I wasn't joking about scum motivated push.  The lack of counterwagon, the speed.  That's a classic scum push.

Parsing this...

--you think the hammer came from town ("that was a derphammer")
--you think your lynch was pushed by scum (thereby saying you are town, I think)
--so there are zero town players off-wagon ("...the entire faction I'm aligned with is on my wagon")

Is that about right?

[reinoe]

If he doesn't actually die then we lynch him again.  Kind of like what happened to me in Guilds.  I quickhammered, everyone thought I was scummy for it (I just did it because I thought it would be fun (and I had a plan to try to trick the cop into investigating me and getting a town result)) and then I got lynched.  Didn't die, made all sorts of last-ditch crazy claims, then got lynched again.

Long story short.  If someone doesn't die, we should keep lynching them until they die.

Considering my extreme distaste for bussing I will say that xxtip's vote was definitely the worst on that scum motivated wagon.

[reinoe]

I can't believe that actually worked. I joined the wagon thinking it wouldn't go anywhere because people don't like lynching early. Yay for non-derphammers!

And why don't we lynch ash when he does stuff like this?

That was a derphammer, and the entire faction I'm aligned with is on my wagon.  I'm phone posting so I can't access the neighborhood because my phone hates Qt.  I wasn't joking about scum motivated push.  The lack of counterwagon, the speed.  That's a classic scum push.

Parsing this...

--you think the hammer came from town ("that was a derphammer")
--you think your lynch was pushed by scum (thereby saying you are town, I think)
--so there are zero town players off-wagon ("...the entire faction I'm aligned with is on my wagon")

Is that about right?

1) Derphammers in my context can come from scum or town.
2) No I'm definitely scum and I think it's multiball.
3) I wouldn't be surprised if all the scum in the game are on my wagon.  I know faction can be found there.

Robzz is a much more palatable player than TA.  Just because I'm scum doesn't mean I wasn't scum hunting.  Totally serious about TA scum claiming.  Robz would have handled things much better.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Robzz is a much more palatable player than TA.

I don't think statements like this are helpful or objectively true.

[reinoe]

Robzz is a much more palatable player than TA.

I don't think statements like this are helpful or objectively true.

I take umbrage with someone who complains about neighborhood revelation when they never brought it up over a 2 1/2 day span.  But I've gone over that already.

[XerxesPraelor]

You didn't talk about it, therefore you shouldn't reveal it. If you wanted to reveal, you should have brought it up in the QT. The person making a big decision has the responsibility to ask first, especially since it appears to have daychat. Not revealing is the default.

[reinoe]

You didn't talk about it, therefore you shouldn't reveal it. If you wanted to reveal, you should have brought it up in the QT. The person making a big decision has the responsibility to ask first, especially since it appears to have daychat. Not revealing is the default.

I'm not budging on my opinion.  You're wrong in light of scum killing the other person and then fake-claiming.

[ashersky]

You didn't talk about it, therefore you shouldn't reveal it. If you wanted to reveal, you should have brought it up in the QT. The person making a big decision has the responsibility to ask first, especially since it appears to have daychat. Not revealing is the default.

I'm not budging on my opinion.  You're wrong in light of scum killing the other person and then fake-claiming.

So, like if you/Robz were town/scum and neighbors...you guys don't claim, Robz and his team NK you on N1...on D2 Robz and a scumpartner fakeclaim neighbors along with the dead you?

Not sure what scum gains, although it's a neat idea.

[reinoe]

You didn't talk about it, therefore you shouldn't reveal it. If you wanted to reveal, you should have brought it up in the QT. The person making a big decision has the responsibility to ask first, especially since it appears to have daychat. Not revealing is the default.

I'm not budging on my opinion.  You're wrong in light of scum killing the other person and then fake-claiming.

So, like if you/Robz were town/scum and neighbors...you guys don't claim, Robz and his team NK you on N1...on D2 Robz and a scumpartner fakeclaim neighbors along with the dead you?

Not sure what scum gains, although it's a neat idea.

No you misunderstand.  Scum are often given fake name-claims.  Since Robz and I know who each other are we obviously cannot fake-claim with each other alive.  However if the neighborhoods are never outed then the scum can kill their neighbor and then fake-claim a name that's not quite so villainous.

[xxpittip]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

For why?

If i would be mod of a game i wouldn't put two players of the same faction in it. I think that reinoe being scum also makes robz a lot less likely to be scum (why put 2 scum players in a neighbourhood if they have a qt anyway?)

[Beyond Awesome]

Welp just got back from work! Another 10 hour shift! I do have Friday off. I go back on Saturday, but have Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. So, expect more posting on those days.

Anyway, I was really upset with the way reinoe treated TA. So, I'm not surprised he got lynched. His attitude right now is extremely childish. Assuming he flips scum like he said he will, then I think it makes it very likely that TA/Robz are town. I just don't see a scum team plan where you decide to act like an ass towards your partner and then have your partner quit on you just to win the game. So, yah, I'm like 99.9% certain that RobZ is town here...The only exception would be if there are multiple factions.

I know there is a lot of theory of there being 4 or so scum players. But, I actually think there exists the possibility for multiple factions. We have that lady that was kind of crazy. I can see here being some sort of SK. We have the smoke monster. We have the others. Hell, even some people from the main group kind of split off into their own buddy factions. So, anyway, I think it is a possibility we need to consider.

I am curious about Jacob and Hydrad's mini claim. For now, this makes me think Hydrad is more likely town since Jacob was good. However, there was that others guy that was their leader and supposedly a speaker for Jacob. So, Hydrad could potentially be that guy...but I don't think so.

This game is pretty large though, so that makes things hard to analyze. Most people are pretty null for me.

[Beyond Awesome]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

For why?

If i would be mod of a game i wouldn't put two players of the same faction in it. I think that reinoe being scum also makes robz a lot less likely to be scum (why put 2 scum players in a neighbourhood if they have a qt anyway?)

In one game, I was put in a neighborhood where the 4 of us were all town and two of us became Masons. The meltdowns were pretty epic because this happened on like Day 5 if I recall correctly.

[Beyond Awesome]

Oh, and about the button, I think we should push it.

Can we have some volunteers. I think more than one player can push it because scum can easily say they will push it and end up not pushing it and claim they forgot or something.

[xeiron]

Oh, and about the button, I think we should push it.

Can we have some volunteers. I think more than one player can push it because scum can easily say they will push it and end up not pushing it and claim they forgot or something.

We shold not have any volunteers.
That would be soft-claiming passive/weak role and would only help scum finding the strong roles (who does not volunteer)
Better to leave it to everybody to decide for themselves. Somebody will most likely push the button.

[Beyond Awesome]

Oh, and about the button, I think we should push it.

Can we have some volunteers. I think more than one player can push it because scum can easily say they will push it and end up not pushing it and claim they forgot or something.

We shold not have any volunteers.
That would be soft-claiming passive/weak role and would only help scum finding the strong roles (who does not volunteer)
Better to leave it to everybody to decide for themselves. Somebody will most likely push the button.

Good point.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: reinoe
I don't like his angry-agressive-raging playstyle + i think one of the neighbours is propably scum + TA/robz seems more towny to me

For why?

If i would be mod of a game i wouldn't put two players of the same faction in it. I think that reinoe being scum also makes robz a lot less likely to be scum (why put 2 scum players in a neighbourhood if they have a qt anyway?)

Flavor and roles could be independently assigned.  It happens in some games.  As a mod, you don't want neighborhoods to imply alignments.. otherwise it would essentially be Masons, which is more powerful.

[reinoe]

I'm aligned with "The Others".  We know there's a faction called "The Man In Black".   

The mod has ruled that I'm not allowed to explicitly out the other team.  But I can say my entire faction was on my wagon: hence why it grew so easily based on me too voters.  xxtips had the worst vote on the wagon.

And a two scum in a two person neighborhood in multiball is very common.

[reinoe]

In twilight I can motivate someone to use two night actions.  Who wants two night actions?

[reinoe]

This is still a good question and also a pretty good crumb of my role...
@MOD
Is "the button" considered a player in this game?  i.e. can it be vigged?  Can it be "watched"?  Can someone be tracked to "the button"? 

[reinoe]

Reads list:

1. Teproc - Solid play. He is there where something happends and generally makes sense when he is speaking. I hope he is town.
2. Hydrad. - Has been a background player so far.  Nothing he has said so far gives me pointes about his allignment. Null read.
3. XerxesPraelor - Also a background player.
4. Witherweaver- Have been active. I have not gotten much of a read on him, but I would not lynch him.
5. silverspawn - Null-read.
6. Beyond Awesome - Has little content. I hope to see more of him in the coming days
7. Ashersky - Usual ashersky-play with his plans. I want to hear what he has to say about them D2. Will not lynch today.
8. Ichimaru Gin - concerned about his own position, and gets defenive when cases are made of him. I undreastans that is usual for him. Active poster. slight town read
9. Xeiron - Town
10. chairs - Too little content
11. Awaclus - Has been in the background.
12. 2.71828... - Null-read
13. xxpittip - Too little content.
14. Twistedarcher/Robz - Has gotten much focus because of reinoe's case. I think he has reacted towny.
15. A Drowned Kernel - Have been active. Slight town read.
16. Reinoe - I do not how to read this guy. He has a different playstyle than the rest. I am fine with lynching him.

So this is mostly a bunch of null-reads with some townier reads. The lack of scumreads makes me more suscpicious those with little content and the ones who stays more in the background.

Willing to lynch: Hydrad, XP, silverspawn, BA, chairs, Awaclus, e, xxpittip, reinoe.

Count the number of people in this game vs the number of people he's willing to lynch and recognize that this is a scumpost.

e.271828 and TA/Robz are very likely to flip scum.
@MOD
Motivate: Hydrad

[XerxesPraelor]

Why would he be doing all this WIFOM if he were town. I believe him.

[XerxesPraelor]

Except about Xeiron. It's fine to have lots of "willing-to-lynch"

[Ichimaru Gin]

Why would he be doing all this WIFOM if he were town. I believe him.

I think I believe him as well, although it's not as if it matters a ton, since we should be getting his flip. This could actually be pretty advantageous for town assuming the information he's giving us is accurate. I'm not sure about the "I can give you double twilight actions" thing. It's probably true, but it's not like anyone can volunteer in the main thread for it without outing themselves as a PR. Or it could be a member of the Man in Black Faction who gets the double actions (which I assume is like scum?).

[faust]

Is "the button" considered a player in this game?  i.e. can it be vigged?  Can it be "watched"?  Can someone be tracked to "the button"?

The button does not count as a player in the game. Someone pushing the button will count as not targeting anyone.

[XerxesPraelor]

So there's a few hours before the flip.

Anything worth talking about?

[chairs]

Nothing I can think of.

D1 was basically taken over by reinoe's playstyle being... rather scatching, compared to the more friendly/relaxed gameplay I'm used to on f.ds.

[faust]

Woah. Big fuss today. That reinoe person was all over the place, yelling and screaming how his wife betrayed him. Can't people sort out their marital problems on their own, I wonder? He also started attacking other people, not sure why. All I heard was him going on and on about some watch that he lost.

Anyway, we were all not quite sure how to handle the situation, so we handcuffed him to a some tree in the jungle. Maybe that will calm his spirits, we thought.

I made my way through the jungle when I heard a scream out of reinoe's direction. At first I thought, that's just him complaining. But when I got back to camp and told the others, they agreed that we should take a look, see if everything's all right. Of course it wasn't: When we got to reinoe and his tree, we found him strangled. Witherweaver was sitting next to him. "Hate me if you like, but I thought it best to get rid of him", was all he could say in his defense.

reinoe has been lynched. He was Jin-Soo Kwon, the Other-aligned Neighbor/Modified Jack Of All Trades!

Night 1 has begun. Night action are due in 24 hours! All living players are requested to check in.

Ashes have been spread! On one side of the ashes, there are A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828..., Robz888, chairs, silverspawn, Beyond Awesome, Teproc, while the rest remain on the opposite side.

THREAD LOCKED!

[Archetype]

Why are the cool guys always the first to die?

When Robz, who is still under a shock after everything that's happened, cleared reinoe's tent, he found a walkie talkie there that nobody had seen before. Soon everyone agreed that the device hadn't been on the plane, and neither had such things been found inside the hatch. The conclusion was horrible: reinoe must have cooperated with the Others!

The night after, we placed guards around our camp, fearing the Others might take revenge on us for killing their ally. I shared my shift with Teproc and Hydrad. While everyting was very exciting, standing guard is a rather dull job, and was on the verge of falling asleep when I heard a scream coming from Teproc's position.

When I arrived to help him, it was already too late. There was no way to tell what had happened. Teproc was bruised all over, his neck was snapped, and a bullet had pierced his heart. Someone apparently wanted to make damn sure he was indeed dead.

Man, he was badass. Why did it have to be him? There are other people among us that I rely much less on to get us all through this alive.

Teproc has been killed. He was Sayid Jarrah, the Town-aligned 1-shot Lynchproof Public Role Cop!

Day 2 has begun!

Not Voting (14): Hydrad, XerxesPraelor, Witherweaver, silverspawn, Beyond Awesome, ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, xeiron, chairs, Awaclus, 2.7, xxpittip, Robz888, A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 will end Tuesday, January 20th at 7 PM

Thread Unlocked!

[Hydrad]

I live!!!

Also does the flavour mean teproc was killed twice?

[Witherweaver]

Anyone that knows flavor have insight on who would use what method to kill?

[ashersky]

Anyone that knows flavor have insight on who would use what method to kill?

Well, the smoke monster would probably strangle/brutalize a body.  I'm guessing the Others kill with guns.

[ashersky]

By The Others I meant Dharma.

[ashersky]

Who's up for a giant revelation/plan now?  Or do we want to discuss other stuff?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Who's up for a giant revelation/plan now?  Or do we want to discuss other stuff?

I'm ready for the revelation.

[Hydrad]

Who's up for a giant revelation/plan now?  Or do we want to discuss other stuff?

I've been waiting my whole life for this moment

[Robz888]

The flavor implies to me that he was killed THREE times. Once by the Man in Black (bruises from the Smoke Monster), once by the Others (neck snapping), and once by a third faction, possibly Dharma or Freighter or something.

[ashersky]

The flavor implies to me that he was killed THREE times. Once by the Man in Black (bruises from the Smoke Monster), once by the Others (neck snapping), and once by a third faction, possibly Dharma or Freighter or something.

This sounds right.

[Robz888]

Anyone that knows flavor have insight on who would use what method to kill?

Well, the smoke monster would probably strangle/brutalize a body.  I'm guessing the Others kill with guns.

Neck-snapping is an Others thing. Bruised body is a Smoke Monster / Man in Black thing (the Smoke Monster and MIB are the same entity).

[ashersky]

Two small scum teams and an SK?  Hard to balance three kills a night, though.

Something else could be going on.  Or we're reading too much into the flavor.

[Robz888]

Two small scum teams and an SK?  Hard to balance three kills a night, though.

Something else could be going on.  Or we're reading too much into the flavor.

I don't think we are. I definitely see an Others kill and a Smokey/MIB kill.

The gunshot is either third faction or possibly town Vig. The survivors have mega access to guns. Of course, shooting Teproc was a terrible decision for a Vig, but it was potentially redirected or something.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm happy with how many roles I see from my Pokemon game in recent setups.

I also want to hear the plan.

[XerxesPraelor]

Does anyone want to claim what the ashes are?

vote: ADK to see IG the vote goes through.

[Beyond Awesome]

I think someone may have redirected all kills to Teproc. Maybe someone thought he was scum or scum really wanted him dead because they found out what he was.

Anyway, I got to do a reread on Teproc.

Ash what's your revelation?

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay, I have quickly reread Teproc. Lots of things stand out to me. He appears very towny. He has a strong sense of flavor of Lost. He also seems to keep the game on track. Also, he blasts down Ash's ideas. And, in hindsight never the no lynch nor L-1 were good ideas. Also, he suspected Hydrad and WW of being scum.

After the reinoe lynch, I had been thinking that Ash could be scum. His plans aren't all that great this game. People are just following his lame plans blindly (okay, I did follow the L-1 thing, but I thought we might have time). Also, reinoe claims that scum was instigating his lynch and Ash seemed perfectly fine getting the ball rolling on a reinoe lynch. I would not be surprised if reinoe actually was telling the truth just to mess with us. Also, both Hydrad and WW voted for reinoe with WW hammering.

I know Ash claims to have some revelation but until I see it, for now Vote: Ash

I have to reread Hydrad and WW to see why Teproc was so suspicious of them, but I can see the WW hammer as WW trying to distance himself from reinoe and look towny when reinoe flipped scum. Yes, I am actually willing to believe the words of dying scum this game. We saw how crazy and brash reinoe's play style was, and how he throws fits.

[Hydrad]

I'm guessing part of the reason teproc was suspicious of me and ww is maybe because we were just his partners in a game that just ended?

[ashersky]

Okay, I have quickly reread Teproc. Lots of things stand out to me. He appears very towny. He has a strong sense of flavor of Lost. He also seems to keep the game on track. Also, he blasts down Ash's ideas. And, in hindsight never the no lynch nor L-1 were good ideas. Also, he suspected Hydrad and WW of being scum.

After the reinoe lynch, I had been thinking that Ash could be scum. His plans aren't all that great this game. People are just following his lame plans blindly (okay, I did follow the L-1 thing, but I thought we might have time). Also, reinoe claims that scum was instigating his lynch and Ash seemed perfectly fine getting the ball rolling on a reinoe lynch. I would not be surprised if reinoe actually was telling the truth just to mess with us. Also, both Hydrad and WW voted for reinoe with WW hammering.

I know Ash claims to have some revelation but until I see it, for now Vote: Ash

I have to reread Hydrad and WW to see why Teproc was so suspicious of them, but I can see the WW hammer as WW trying to distance himself from reinoe and look towny when reinoe flipped scum. Yes, I am actually willing to believe the words of dying scum this game. We saw how crazy and brash reinoe's play style was, and how he throws fits.

Wow, a scumread for getting a scum lynch going.  Awesome.  Beyond Awesome, even.

I mean, multiball for sure, so don't go all townread on me, but still, that's funny.

[ashersky]

And now, for the plan.

I am Desmond Hume.

As Robz can confirm (because flavor), I have a power related to the button.  It's basically huge.  Game changing.

Every single player needs to press the button tonight.

[Beyond Awesome]

Do we get to travel back in time?

[Beyond Awesome]

And, I'm jealous. I wanted to be Desmond. He's my favorite character on the show.

[ashersky]

And, I'm jealous. I wanted to be Desmond. He's my favorite character on the show.

He's on The 100 now.

[Hydrad]

Interesting. A worry I have is if you die does this make pushing the button useless. That's really my only concern. I trust you though to know what you are doing.

[ashersky]

Interesting. A worry I have is if you die does this make pushing the button useless. That's really my only concern. I trust you though to know what you are doing.

Well, I mean, it's not useless.  At worse, I just die, right?

[Beyond Awesome]

And, I'm jealous. I wanted to be Desmond. He's my favorite character on the show.

He's on The 100 now.

I know. Great show.

Anyway, I have given your plan some thought, and I have some worries. Ultimately, I have a hard time seeing Desmond as one of The Others. He seems a super town person to me. So, why reveal your identity? Also, on the show, game changing stuff doesn't happen until the button is NOT pressed! Now, obviously, not pressing the button is likely very bad, but by having everyone press the button we also make players vulnerable.  That's like telling a doctor to not doctor someone, telling a tracker (i'm guessing we get a tracker) not to track, etc. etc. etc. Essentially, you render PRs inert for a whole night. And, scum has no incentive to go along with your plan. So, they won't push the button.

Anyway, I want to see something cool happen, but I'm not 100% sure I trust this plan.

[Hydrad]

Interesting. A worry I have is if you die does this make pushing the button useless. That's really my only concern. I trust you though to know what you are doing.

Well, I mean, it's not useless.  At worse, I just die, right?

Ok. I guess I was wondering if it's like a super cop or something where if you die we get no info. That's what I was worried about.

[ashersky]

And, I'm jealous. I wanted to be Desmond. He's my favorite character on the show.

He's on The 100 now.

I know. Great show.

Anyway, I have given your plan some thought, and I have some worries. Ultimately, I have a hard time seeing Desmond as one of The Others. He seems a super town person to me. So, why reveal your identity? Also, on the show, game changing stuff doesn't happen until the button is NOT pressed! Now, obviously, not pressing the button is likely very bad, but by having everyone press the button we also make players vulnerable.  That's like telling a doctor to not doctor someone, telling a tracker (i'm guessing we get a tracker) not to track, etc. etc. etc. Essentially, you render PRs inert for a whole night. And, scum has no incentive to go along with your plan. So, they won't push the button.

Anyway, I want to see something cool happen, but I'm not 100% sure I trust this plan.

Thing is, scum does have incentive, once I tell everyone what happens.  And that's why I think actually town will be against the plan more than scum.  But I'm going to argue it is absolutely worth it.

I just like building suspense with the staggered reveal.

[Hydrad]

Now I'm a bit more worried about this plan. Still super curious.

[ashersky]

I've thought about this since getting my PM, actually, as I wasn't sure how to make this work.  I don't know if I'm going against faust's design (he might have meant this for a late game day), but I'm looking to get the most out of this power that he's given me.

I will say, there is significant risk to this whole thing.

[Hydrad]

Curiosity is getting bigger!

[ashersky]

I'd bet money Robz can guess what I'm talking about.

[Beyond Awesome]

I need to know one thing. Does every player have to push the button? If even a single player does not push the button does that mean the plan won't work?

[ashersky]

I need to know one thing. Does every player have to push the button? If even a single player does not push the button does that mean the plan won't work?

Depends on who doesn't push the button.  My plan involves everyone pushing the button.  There are other ways to use my power, but they would be impossible to pull off.  Having everyone, including all scum, do something, seems impossible enough.

[Beyond Awesome]

I need to know one thing. Does every player have to push the button? If even a single player does not push the button does that mean the plan won't work?

Depends on who doesn't push the button.  My plan involves everyone pushing the button.  There are other ways to use my power, but they would be impossible to pull off.  Having everyone, including all scum, do something, seems impossible enough.

Okay, do all town players have to push the button for the plan to work?

[ashersky]

I need to know one thing. Does every player have to push the button? If even a single player does not push the button does that mean the plan won't work?

Depends on who doesn't push the button.  My plan involves everyone pushing the button.  There are other ways to use my power, but they would be impossible to pull off.  Having everyone, including all scum, do something, seems impossible enough.

Okay, do all town players have to push the button for the plan to work?

If all town players push the button and no scum players push the button, that would be the best thing ever.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, I have quickly reread Teproc. Lots of things stand out to me. He appears very towny. He has a strong sense of flavor of Lost. He also seems to keep the game on track. Also, he blasts down Ash's ideas. And, in hindsight never the no lynch nor L-1 were good ideas. Also, he suspected Hydrad and WW of being scum.

After the reinoe lynch, I had been thinking that Ash could be scum. His plans aren't all that great this game. People are just following his lame plans blindly (okay, I did follow the L-1 thing, but I thought we might have time). Also, reinoe claims that scum was instigating his lynch and Ash seemed perfectly fine getting the ball rolling on a reinoe lynch. I would not be surprised if reinoe actually was telling the truth just to mess with us. Also, both Hydrad and WW voted for reinoe with WW hammering.

I know Ash claims to have some revelation but until I see it, for now Vote: Ash

I have to reread Hydrad and WW to see why Teproc was so suspicious of them, but I can see the WW hammer as WW trying to distance himself from reinoe and look towny when reinoe flipped scum. Yes, I am actually willing to believe the words of dying scum this game. We saw how crazy and brash reinoe's play style was, and how he throws fits.

Vote: Beyond Awesome

[Beyond Awesome]

And, what if a town player does not push the button? Then what? Can your plan still work?

[Witherweaver]

Also, I didn't really get the impression that WW was overly suspicious of me.

I'm okay with following Ash's plan.

[Witherweaver]

When I said "WW" there I meant "Teproc".

[Witherweaver]

Also, uh, it should be like accepted fact that I'm not on Reinoe's faction.  I mean maybe I could have been his partner and got super pissed off at him, but that's gotta be pretty low on people's possibilities.  Unless Reinoe was playing some serious WIFOM, we can probably assume he only has one (known) partner (could be an uknown Traitor), and quickhammering your own partner halfway through D1 is unlikely enough, but to do it to your only partner is just not going to happen.

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, I didn't really get the impression that WW was overly suspicious of me.

I'm okay with following Ash's plan.

I'm not. Ash is essentially telling town PRs not to do anything tonight while scum can take whatever actions they like. He even says it is best for all of town to press the button and all of scum not to push the button, meaning scum factions get whatever kills in, no doctoring, no investigating, and no whatever else town may be able to do.

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, uh, it should be like accepted fact that I'm not on Reinoe's faction.  I mean maybe I could have been his partner and got super pissed off at him, but that's gotta be pretty low on people's possibilities.  Unless Reinoe was playing some serious WIFOM, we can probably assume he only has one (known) partner (could be an uknown Traitor), and quickhammering your own partner halfway through D1 is unlikely enough, but to do it to your only partner is just not going to happen.

The Others are a pretty large faction on the show. I have no reason to suspect he just had one partner.

[ashersky]

Also, I didn't really get the impression that WW was overly suspicious of me.

I'm okay with following Ash's plan.

I'm not. Ash is essentially telling town PRs not to do anything tonight while scum can take whatever actions they like. He even says it is best for all of town to press the button and all of scum not to push the button, meaning scum factions get whatever kills in, no doctoring, no investigating, and no whatever else town may be able to do.

These are good issues to have with the plan.  When you hear why, you may (or may not) change your mind.

[Witherweaver]

Also, I didn't really get the impression that WW was overly suspicious of me.

I'm okay with following Ash's plan.

I'm not. Ash is essentially telling town PRs not to do anything tonight while scum can take whatever actions they like. He even says it is best for all of town to press the button and all of scum not to push the button, meaning scum factions get whatever kills in, no doctoring, no investigating, and no whatever else town may be able to do.

I believe Ash took this into account, and that he's not doing this as scum for a scum benefit.

[Witherweaver]

Also, uh, it should be like accepted fact that I'm not on Reinoe's faction.  I mean maybe I could have been his partner and got super pissed off at him, but that's gotta be pretty low on people's possibilities.  Unless Reinoe was playing some serious WIFOM, we can probably assume he only has one (known) partner (could be an uknown Traitor), and quickhammering your own partner halfway through D1 is unlikely enough, but to do it to your only partner is just not going to happen.

The Others are a pretty large faction on the show. I have no reason to suspect he just had one partner.

His comment about multiball.  This was the exact same conclusion Teproc and I came to in MU when we were the only Mafia in our QT.  (In that case, we were incorrect as we had a Traitor.)

[Robz888]

Also, uh, it should be like accepted fact that I'm not on Reinoe's faction.  I mean maybe I could have been his partner and got super pissed off at him, but that's gotta be pretty low on people's possibilities.  Unless Reinoe was playing some serious WIFOM, we can probably assume he only has one (known) partner (could be an uknown Traitor), and quickhammering your own partner halfway through D1 is unlikely enough, but to do it to your only partner is just not going to happen.

I concur. Because if WW hadn't hammered, I think there was high likelihood reinoe doesn't get lynched at all, which is 1000X better for reinoe's faction. The cover of having been the hammerer isn't enough of an advantage to do it, this being role madness and all.

I also think Beyond Awesome's argument against ash is nonsensical and a bit aggressive. Looks scummy to me.

We shouldn't say "Ash isn't scum because Desmond isn't an Other." Jin (reinoe) isn't an Other on the show, either.

Still, I'm inclined to continue trusting ash for now and will go along with his plan. I can't guess what all of us pushing the button does. Possibly it supercharges Ash in some way.

[Robz888]

Oh, I did forget pushing the button voids your PR... well, okay. We need to hear what us all doing it accomplishes.

[ashersky]

Oh, I did forget pushing the button voids your PR... well, okay. We need to hear what us all doing it accomplishes.

Your guess was close!

I have to jet, but will explain the rest in an hour or so.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's really hard to know what to make of the "my partners bussed me!" comment, but the fact that scum killed off-wagon probably supports it.

[ashersky]

Is it possible Teproc was a lightning rod?

[ashersky]

Anyway, here's the rest of it:

I have the key to the fail-safe.  Tonight, I can trigger it, causing some purple-sky-style things to happen.

Triggering the fail-safe causes a discharge.  There are side effects, depending on who pressed the button.

Also, if I trigger the fail-safe, the button is no longer in play.

[Witherweaver]

Is it possible Teproc was a lightning rod?

I'm not sure Teproc was really killed by every faction.  It's possible the flavor is just misleading here.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Is it possible Teproc was a lightning rod?

I'm not sure Teproc was really killed by every faction.  It's possible the flavor is just misleading here.

I agree with this. Apart from the influence of some other power, the odds of 3 factions all hitting Teproc seems incredibly unlikely. I know nothing of the flavor, but does it look likely we have 3 factions + town here? I guess with this many people, that could be the case.

[ashersky]

But three killing factions?  Assuming bad protection luck...

D1: 17 - 1 = 16
N1: 16 - 3 = 13
D2: 13 - 1 = 12
N2: 12 - 3 = 9
D3: 9 - 1 = 8
N3: 8 - 3 = 5

If someone hasn't won by then, that's still pretty rough.  It's hard to balance 3 kills.  That's why I wondered about lightning rods as a possible balancing power.

[Robz888]

But three killing factions?  Assuming bad protection luck...

D1: 17 - 1 = 16
N1: 16 - 3 = 13
D2: 13 - 1 = 12
N2: 12 - 3 = 9
D3: 9 - 1 = 8
N3: 8 - 3 = 5

If someone hasn't won by then, that's still pretty rough.  It's hard to balance 3 kills.  That's why I wondered about lightning rods as a possible balancing power.

Sure, but, his role was revealed and it wasn't Lightning Rod.

I actually think Teproc was very pro-townie and very town seeming, so I don't think it so crazy that all three would target him. But possibly I'm wrong.

[ashersky]

Could be one of the kills was strongman and flavor is indicative.

[2.71828.....]

Ash's power looks very interesting.  I like the idea of using it tonight.  Why?  Because then we won't have to worry about the button being pushed anymore and we are now able to use our powers without fear of button misdirection. 

What happens to everyone who pushes the button/doesn't push the button is something that we can only speculate on, and I don't think that we should.  I know I don't want Ash to reveal that information because then scum has more information to make a decision about pushing the button. 

[2.71828.....]

But three killing factions?  Assuming bad protection luck...

D1: 17 - 1 = 16
N1: 16 - 3 = 13
D2: 13 - 1 = 12
N2: 12 - 3 = 9
D3: 9 - 1 = 8
N3: 8 - 3 = 5

If someone hasn't won by then, that's still pretty rough.  It's hard to balance 3 kills.  That's why I wondered about lightning rods as a possible balancing power.

Sure, but, his role was revealed and it wasn't Lightning Rod.

I actually think Teproc was very pro-townie and very town seeming, so I don't think it so crazy that all three would target him. But possibly I'm wrong.

I agree with Robz about Teproc.  Role would have revealed Teproc to be a lightning rod, and it would be ridiculous to have a role that redirects all NKs or actions to a person of your choosing.

[Awaclus]

I have no idea what's going on. Ashersky's power sounds interesting, but what's the connection between that and putting everyone to L-1, or that and no lynch D1?

[xxpittip]

What happens to the plan if scum decides to NK ash? Does it still work? If we all push the button nobody can protect ash...

[silverspawn]

Vote: Beyond Awesome. This is mostly based on intuition, but a pretty strong one. His post just doesn't seem genuine.

I think it's highly unlikely that three people targeted teproc for a kill, for several reasons. One: what ash said, three kills are weird. And more importantly two: what IG said, it's just way way too unlikely. Extremely unlikely. Yeah he was super towny, but still.

I'd like to know more about the ash plan.

What happens to the plan if scum decides to NK ash? Does it still work? If we all push the button nobody can protect ash...

excellent question. Also,

Why didn't you want to do this day 1?

Wasn't it dangerous to soft claim day 1? What was the point if you didn't go through with it anyway? What if you had been NK'd?

Is the usage you gain proportional to the number of townies pushing the button, or is it an all or nothing thing?

[XerxesPraelor]

I like ash's plan, but I also like BA's post.

Can Mafia shoot and push the button on the same night?

[faust]

Can Mafia shoot and push the button on the same night?

This applies to all alignments:

Every night, any player may send in a PM to the mod containing this:
4 8 15 16 23 42 Execute
If you do, you are not allowed to perform any other night action.

[xeiron]

And now, for the plan.

I am Desmond Hume.

As Robz can confirm (because flavor), I have a power related to the button.  It's basically huge.  Game changing.

Every single player needs to press the button tonight.

Thing is, scum does have incentive, once I tell everyone what happens.  And that's why I think actually town will be against the plan more than scum.  But I'm going to argue it is absolutely worth it.

I just like building suspense with the staggered reveal.

I've thought about this since getting my PM, actually, as I wasn't sure how to make this work.  I don't know if I'm going against faust's design (he might have meant this for a late game day), but I'm looking to get the most out of this power that he's given me.

I will say, there is significant risk to this whole thing.

I need to know one thing. Does every player have to push the button? If even a single player does not push the button does that mean the plan won't work?

Depends on who doesn't push the button.  My plan involves everyone pushing the button.  There are other ways to use my power, but they would be impossible to pull off.  Having everyone, including all scum, do something, seems impossible enough.

Anyway, here's the rest of it:

I have the key to the fail-safe.  Tonight, I can trigger it, causing some purple-sky-style things to happen.

Triggering the fail-safe causes a discharge.  There are side effects, depending on who pressed the button.

Also, if I trigger the fail-safe, the button is no longer in play.

A plan that involves all of town to forgo their night actions, that carries a significant risk,  that town will be more against than scum and that might just fail... I don't like it.
It would be sweet if the button was was removed from the game, though.

[xeiron]

Does anyone want to claim what the ashes are?

vote: ADK to see IG the vote goes through.

You mean these ashes?

Ashes have been spread! On one side of the ashes, there are A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828..., Robz888, chairs, silverspawn, Beyond Awesome, Teproc, while the rest remain on the opposite side.

It sounds to me like the ashes are tied to some (secret?) game mechanic. Maybe there is a role that can only target half the population.

The people listed are those who was not on the lynch wagon. Whether the list is made the same way all days, or if it even will be made at all later days is an open question. Maybe it is just a fancy way to state the final lynch wagon.
We will know more after D2.

[Witherweaver]

Ash, does your ability effect any other game mechanics besides the button?

[Witherweaver]

I made my way through the jungle when I heard a scream out of reinoe's direction. At first I thought, that's just him complaining. But when I got back to camp and told the others, they agreed that we should take a look, see if everything's all right. Of course it wasn't: When we got to reinoe and his tree, we found him strangled. Witherweaver was sitting next to him. "Hate me if you like, but I thought it best to get rid of him", was all he could say in his defense.[/i]

Also, this is now my most favorite bit of flavor.

[A Drowned Kernel]

This plan reminds of Eevee's power in that Pokemon game, where he got info about people based on how they vote. That worked out really well, especially because he got scum to follow his orders before explaining exactly how it worked. So, I'm in favor of this.

ash, does your plan involve no-lynching again?

[chairs]

I'm ok with the plan. purple sky stuff sounds neat, although I don't know any of this flavor.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'm fine with ash's plan. It'd suck if he died tonight, but maybe he won't. I'm just wondering if any protective PR's shouldn't push the button maybe? Because otherwise, it seems like scum is just going to kill ash.

Also, was there any discussion surrounding the whole "ashes have been spread" thing that happened last night? Is this related to the flavor? And does anyone have any idea what it might mean in terms of a game mechanic?

[2.71828.....]

1. Copy
2. Hide
3. Bus
4. Block
5. Redirect
6. Pushing the button
7. Button effects
8. Protect
9. Miscellaneous
10. Kill
11. Recruit
12. Inspect

Ash's action will still go through even if he dies.  We just won't know all the details that he would have otherwise been able to tell us.  So that is the risk that we take.  I think Ash should perform his action no matter what, and in the end it will be up to each individual as to whether or not they follow along with the plan.  Ash's plans, scum or town, are all well thought out and serve the best interest of town.  Take Village Mafia, when Ash was scum (with me).  He came out with a plan, based on set up information and all that was in the best interest for town.  If he comes out with a plan, I thoroughly believe it will be good for town.  Possibly a risky scum gambit (village mafia) or a pro-town I-want-to-win-this-game town plan.

So basically I think we go through with it and hope for the best.  And if the plan and his power end up being totally useless (which I doubt) we can lynch him as scum wasting our time.  If they really do work and are beneficial for town, then hopefully even if he is scum the gambit backfires and it sets town up in a better position than he had thought and we can catch him later.

[xxpittip]

I'm fine with ash's plan. It'd suck if he died tonight, but maybe he won't. I'm just wondering if any protective PR's shouldn't push the button maybe? Because otherwise, it seems like scum is just going to kill ash.

Also, was there any discussion surrounding the whole "ashes have been spread" thing that happened last night? Is this related to the flavor? And does anyone have any idea what it might mean in terms of a game mechanic?

If we follow the plan we should definitely let the protective PRs keep ash alive, otherwise he will most likely die -> whatever his power is will propably be useless -> we give scum a free kill, while our PRs can't use their powers because they all push the button

[2.71828.....]

If all town players push the button and no scum players push the button, that would be the best thing ever.

Obviously I don't know the details of Ash's role, but I think that this kind of implies that the results will still be positive even if Ash were to die overnight.  A weaker version of this case would be if one scum were to not push the button (in order to perform the kill), it would be great. 

[XerxesPraelor]

1. Copy
2. Hide
3. Bus
4. Block
5. Redirect
6. Pushing the button
7. Button effects
8. Protect
9. Miscellaneous
10. Kill
11. Recruit
12. Inspect

Ash's action will still go through even if he dies.  We just won't know all the details that he would have otherwise been able to tell us.  So that is the risk that we take.  I think Ash should perform his action no matter what, and in the end it will be up to each individual as to whether or not they follow along with the plan.  Ash's plans, scum or town, are all well thought out and serve the best interest of town.  Take Village Mafia, when Ash was scum (with me).  He came out with a plan, based on set up information and all that was in the best interest for town.  If he comes out with a plan, I thoroughly believe it will be good for town.  Possibly a risky scum gambit (village mafia) or a pro-town I-want-to-win-this-game town plan.

So basically I think we go through with it and hope for the best.  And if the plan and his power end up being totally useless (which I doubt) we can lynch him as scum wasting our time.  If they really do work and are beneficial for town, then hopefully even if he is scum the gambit backfires and it sets town up in a better position than he had thought and we can catch him later.

Absolutely not!

vote: e

If I'm thinking correctly about what the plan is (ash, correct me if I'm wrong), we need absolutely everyone to go along with the plan or it won't work at all. That includes PRs and even protective roles.

[XerxesPraelor]

By the way, that vote is completely serious and not kind of random like my reinoe one was.

[Beyond Awesome]

I have thought of another issue with the plan. Ash can your power be role blocked

[ashersky]

I have thought of another issue with the plan. Ash can your power be role blocked

Dunno.  Maybe?

[ashersky]

I have no idea what's going on. Ashersky's power sounds interesting, but what's the connection between that and putting everyone to L-1, or that and no lynch D1?

No connection whatsoever.  That was all misdirection -- I was trying to make it seem like I had a twilight power, or a power related to twilight.

Also, it created discussion.  It wasn't as successful as I'd hoped.  Day 1 worked out fine anyway.

[ashersky]

Further, I appreciate all the support.  But you need to hear the rest of it (especially the side effects).

So, when I trigger the failsafe, there are a few things that can happen, depending on who pushed the button that night.

(I'm paraphrasing here, per rules)

If all the players of a faction press the button, all the players of that faction will have their roles upgraded.

There's more -- but, well, I think it's better to discuss this piecemeal.  I have my own thoughts, by the way.

[ashersky]

Now, before you ask me what that means -- I don't really know...specifically.  The most I could get as an explanation was that roles will become stronger in a logical way.  Like, I don't know if we have VTs (I doubt it), but if we do, I don't know how that gets better (named?  BP?).

I also don't know the degree to which powers get stronger.  I'm assuming that, due to the difficulty in pulling this off and the extreme 1-shot nature of it, it's gotta be worth it.  Otherwise I never do anything.

[ashersky]

This plan reminds of Eevee's power in that Pokemon game, where he got info about people based on how they vote. That worked out really well, especially because he got scum to follow his orders before explaining exactly how it worked. So, I'm in favor of this.

ash, does your plan involve no-lynching again?

I appreciate the idea of not explaining, but there more risks here, which I haven't gotten to yet.

No-lynching is not necessary.

[Witherweaver]

Now, before you ask me what that means -- I don't really know...specifically.  The most I could get as an explanation was that roles will become stronger in a logical way.  Like, I don't know if we have VTs (I doubt it), but if we do, I don't know how that gets better (named?  BP?).

I also don't know the degree to which powers get stronger.  I'm assuming that, due to the difficulty in pulling this off and the extreme 1-shot nature of it, it's gotta be worth it.  Otherwise I never do anything.

Negative utility is not out of the realm of possibility for these types of games.

[ashersky]

What happens to the plan if scum decides to NK ash? Does it still work? If we all push the button nobody can protect ash...

excellent question. Also,

Why didn't you want to do this day 1?

Wasn't it dangerous to soft claim day 1? What was the point if you didn't go through with it anyway? What if you had been NK'd?

Is the usage you gain proportional to the number of townies pushing the button, or is it an all or nothing thing?

I like that you are asking questions.

@xxpittip -- this works even if I die, I assume based on order resolution.

@silver

1.  I could not do this on Day 1 as it is a night power.  I assume you meant N1.  I was unable to perform this action until N2 at the earliest due to a prerequisite.

2.  It was dangerous to soft claim, but I think I soft claimed in a way that didn't reveal anything, plus kept me around for a day.  If I had been NKed, all this would have been moot, and we wouldn't be discussing it.  That's the same as any PR.

3.  Good thinking.  It's not proportional, exactly, but it's dependent on numbers.

[ashersky]

Now, before you ask me what that means -- I don't really know...specifically.  The most I could get as an explanation was that roles will become stronger in a logical way.  Like, I don't know if we have VTs (I doubt it), but if we do, I don't know how that gets better (named?  BP?).

I also don't know the degree to which powers get stronger.  I'm assuming that, due to the difficulty in pulling this off and the extreme 1-shot nature of it, it's gotta be worth it.  Otherwise I never do anything.

Negative utility is not out of the realm of possibility for these types of games.

True.  But the wording in my PM is clear that the changes to powers will be positive.

There is definitely a negative to this power, though.  Getting to that later.  Wanted people to know why we are (should) do this.  It's possible enough people think it isn't worth it anyway.  You all know I'm willing to eat my power and just sit around if we agree it's not worth it.

[Hydrad]

I'm still down for trying it... but ya if you can get roleblocked. is that a question you can ask faust? Because that is a super dangerous thing to have happen.

But scum also gets upgrades. That worries me a bunch.

even though it sounds super cool and I really am curious what my power upgraded would be I'm starting to think the negatives might outweigh the positives.

I guess the one thing we have going for us though is that you might not get roleblocked as if scum has a roleblocker they might want to upgrade their powers instead of stopping you.

[xeiron]

Further, I appreciate all the support.  But you need to hear the rest of it (especially the side effects).

So, when I trigger the failsafe, there are a few things that can happen, depending on who pushed the button that night.

(I'm paraphrasing here, per rules)

If all the players of a faction press the button, all the players of that faction will have their roles upgraded.

There's more -- but, well, I think it's better to discuss this piecemeal.  I have my own thoughts, by the way.

Does you yourself count as pressing the button if you use the fail-safe?
If not, what about your faction?

[Ichimaru Gin]

If I understand it correctly, this means that any/all scum-like factions can also get their roles upgraded if they all push the button. That seems a little dangerous. What if they get double nightkills or something?

[Witherweaver]

If I understand it correctly, this means that any/all scum-like factions can also get their roles upgraded if they all push the button. That seems a little dangerous. What if they get double nightkills or something?

I think Ash having a role that's like "If you can convince everyone to go along with this, scum wins heyyo" is not all that likely.

[ashersky]

Further, I appreciate all the support.  But you need to hear the rest of it (especially the side effects).

So, when I trigger the failsafe, there are a few things that can happen, depending on who pushed the button that night.

(I'm paraphrasing here, per rules)

If all the players of a faction press the button, all the players of that faction will have their roles upgraded.

There's more -- but, well, I think it's better to discuss this piecemeal.  I have my own thoughts, by the way.

Does you yourself count as pressing the button if you use the fail-safe?
If not, what about your faction?

Town (my faction) will get the upgrade as long as all town players press the button on the night I trigger the failsafe.  There's an "if" clause included with the fail-safe action, I think because of the odd interaction of the fail-safe with the button rules.

[ashersky]

If I understand it correctly, this means that any/all scum-like factions can also get their roles upgraded if they all push the button. That seems a little dangerous. What if they get double nightkills or something?

You understand correctly that any faction that has all members press the button will get the upgrade side effect.

I don't know about double NKs.  That seems crazy.

[XerxesPraelor]

Huh, I guessed wrong. I thought it was a magic rooster sort of thing. One thing to note is that if all scum players press it, it's like having a successful doctor.

[Ichimaru Gin]

If I understand it correctly, this means that any/all scum-like factions can also get their roles upgraded if they all push the button. That seems a little dangerous. What if they get double nightkills or something?

You understand correctly that any faction that has all members press the button will get the upgrade side effect.

I don't know about double NKs.  That seems crazy.

Yeah, that was a crazy example. It's just I'm wondering what the trade off is if we have 2+ super powered scum factions running around.

[Witherweaver]

Huh, I guessed wrong. I thought it was a magic rooster sort of thing. One thing to note is that if all scum players press it, it's like having a successful doctor.

Oh yeah, good point.  They have to give up tonight's kill in order to have possible "upgraded" powers.

[xeiron]

Further, I appreciate all the support.  But you need to hear the rest of it (especially the side effects).

So, when I trigger the failsafe, there are a few things that can happen, depending on who pushed the button that night.

(I'm paraphrasing here, per rules)

If all the players of a faction press the button, all the players of that faction will have their roles upgraded.

There's more -- but, well, I think it's better to discuss this piecemeal.  I have my own thoughts, by the way.

Does you yourself count as pressing the button if you use the fail-safe?
If not, what about your faction?

Town (my faction) will get the upgrade as long as all town players press the button on the night I trigger the failsafe.  There's an "if" clause included with the fail-safe action, I think because of the odd interaction of the fail-safe with the button rules.

Good.
I realized that if ash is speaking the truth about powering up factions, he has to be town.
If he had this power as scum, he could and would power his own faction without telling the rest.

[2.71828.....]

I realized that if ash is speaking the truth about powering up factions, he has to be town.
If he had this power as scum, he could and would power his own faction without telling the rest.

good point.  I agree this makes Ash IC if the power works as he says it should.

[Robz888]

Well, ash. I'm in to do it.

I'm also in to lynch Beyond Awesome.

[ashersky]

Well, ash. I'm in to do it.

I'm also in to lynch Beyond Awesome.

Do we want to hear the risks?

[Robz888]

Well, ash. I'm in to do it.

I'm also in to lynch Beyond Awesome.

Do we want to hear the risks?

Yes...

[A Drowned Kernel]

Further, I appreciate all the support.  But you need to hear the rest of it (especially the side effects).

So, when I trigger the failsafe, there are a few things that can happen, depending on who pushed the button that night.

(I'm paraphrasing here, per rules)

If all the players of a faction press the button, all the players of that faction will have their roles upgraded.

There's more -- but, well, I think it's better to discuss this piecemeal.  I have my own thoughts, by the way.

That sounds awesome- scum has to chose between missing out on the power upgrade or missing a NK, and I wouldn't be surprised if town comes out ahead even if all factions get upgraded, since we have more players receiving upgrades (and scum's already down one).

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay. We can't do this tonight though. I'm Charlie, and yes, I'm town. However, as a night action, I must always protect Claire which means I am never allowed to press the button.

However, I'm allowed to perform an action tonight that kills me and does something. If town wants to go along with this, I'm fine, but you guys would have to hold off a night before going through with Ash's plan since I'm unable to push the button.

[Beyond Awesome]

Well, ash. I'm in to do it.

I'm also in to lynch Beyond Awesome.

Do we want to hear the risks?

What are the risks aside from the fact that your power could potentially be role blocked?

[Beyond Awesome]

On a side note, for those who have seen the show, I thought it was very flavorful how I must always protect Claire. I can tell that Faust has really put a lot of effort into this game.

[Hydrad]

Well there is the potential that you killing yourself will make it so we still can all use the button? man these roles though seem fun! I can't wait till after the game to read about all of them.

[Beyond Awesome]

Well there is the potential that you killing yourself will make it so we still can all use the button? man these roles though seem fun! I can't wait till after the game to read about all of them.

If I kill myself, you guys can use the button D3, but I'm pretty sure it won't work tonight though.

[Beyond Awesome]

Actually, looking back at the order of effects, it's possible that you guys might be able to do this tonight. I will have to ask faust to clarify how my action would work if I choose to take it.

[Beyond Awesome]

Actually, no wait. If Ash says that all town players must push the button that still means I am not pushing the button regardless, so yah, town can not do this tonight.

So, the real question is should town push the button tomorrow night and should I kill myself tonight?

[Hydrad]

then there is option C...

we lynch you to push the button tonight.

Note I'm against this plan and think BA is towny but we would have to make sure asher stays alive till tomorrow otherwise.

or option D.

we just don't do anything with ashers power.

[ashersky]

Well, ash. I'm in to do it.

I'm also in to lynch Beyond Awesome.

Do we want to hear the risks?

What are the risks aside from the fact that your power could potentially be role blocked?

The biggest risk comes with not everyone following through.

If some, but not all, members of a faction press the button, bad things happen.

So, say all but one town member pushes the button.  Instead of the upgrade thing, a bad thing happens.

Now, here's the upside -- same thing for any faction, right?  So, scum's options are to ignore my power and use their own powers (free kill, whatnot) but let town get upgraded, or they can get upgraded as well, but it's basically a lost night for everyone.  (pun intended)

Basically, if we can be sure 100% of town will press the button, we're all set.  Scum can roll some huge dice with ignoring the upgrades...but I don't think they will, which is why I was upfront about the fact that there is definitely some anti-town facets to this (upgrading scum powers...).

Basically, I see this is a full setup upgrade power that he's built in.  It's pretty cool, and I agree with BA that he must have put a lot of work into this.

[XerxesPraelor]

I so wish I had a QT with ash.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.1

ashersky (1): Beyond Awesome
Beyond Awesome (2): Witherweaver, silverspawn
2.71828... (1): XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (10): Hydrad, ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, xeiron, chairs, Awaclus, 2.7, xxpittip, Robz888, A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 will end Tuesday, January 20th at 7 PM.

[silverspawn]

vote: [/color] for not voting

[Witherweaver]

So Re: BA, I believe his flavor/role claim.  It probably suggests he's town, so

Unvote

I've also been thinking.. should we claim if we pressed the button?  It does indicate to scum that someone who pressed the button has a less powerful role, but that player also could have simply chosen not to use his role last night for other reasons.  And we only need one player to claim they pushed it.

The advantage is helping us unravel night actions/claims down the road.

[silverspawn]

ash, what do you think about BA's claim? The way I see it, we either have to lynch him or wait another night

[xeiron]

Okay. We can't do this tonight though. I'm Charlie, and yes, I'm town. However, as a night action, I must always protect Claire which means I am never allowed to press the button.

However, I'm allowed to perform an action tonight that kills me and does something. If town wants to go along with this, I'm fine, but you guys would have to hold off a night before going through with Ash's plan since I'm unable to push the button.

Three questions.

- Do you know who Claire is?
I am looking for a yes or no, not a name.

- Can you give us a indication of how powerful or beneficial the effect is that would happend if you kill yourself?

- Do you think Clair is town? I mean, why would you ever opt for suiside instead of protecting town. (And probably important town as well if she has a private bodyguard). I am trying to think setup design here.

[Witherweaver]

Protection could be Bodyguard protection instead of Doctor protection. 

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay. We can't do this tonight though. I'm Charlie, and yes, I'm town. However, as a night action, I must always protect Claire which means I am never allowed to press the button.

However, I'm allowed to perform an action tonight that kills me and does something. If town wants to go along with this, I'm fine, but you guys would have to hold off a night before going through with Ash's plan since I'm unable to push the button.

Three questions.

- Do you know who Claire is?
I am looking for a yes or no, not a name.

- Can you give us a indication of how powerful or beneficial the effect is that would happend if you kill yourself?

- Do you think Clair is town? I mean, why would you ever opt for suiside instead of protecting town. (And probably important town as well if she has a private bodyguard). I am trying to think setup design here.

I don't know who Claire is, nor her alignment. I am her bodyguard. So, if she gets killed, I die instead.

If I kill myself I would say the effect is decently beneficial, but not crazy powerful or anything.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I think I believe BA's claim. Unfortunately, it seems to mess up the ashplan somewhat. You said there is a "mildly beneficial" effect if you die? I'm not asking you to claim it if you think it would not be beneficial, but maybe you should since you've claimed almost everything else.

Otherwise, we either postpone the plan (probably terrible, since there's a good chance something will happen to ash). Or you choose to die tonight. Though we haven't yet gotten confirmation that you choosing this other action and dying won't stop town from getting upgraded.

I think your role is especially believable in that it counters ash's everyone-push-the-button-supercharge thing. Depending on just how powerful ash's ability is, it makes sense there would be a mechanic to prevent town from getting upgraded too early or easily (assuming you are town, that is).

[ashersky]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

[Witherweaver]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

Why Night 4 instead of Night 3?  Is there an even night clause?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

Oh yeah. I must have missed that possibility. Well, it's probably worth it then? It's not like he's confirmed town. I'm generally not a fan of lynches for reasons other than thinking people are scummy though. You know how strong your own power is though, so if you think it's worth it, I'm willing to go along.

PPE: 1

[XerxesPraelor]

If ash were a rolecop, this would be a great way to get a free mislynch in without getting suspicion.

But he probably isn't - that's too boring a role for this setup.

[Witherweaver]

If ash were a rolecop, this would be a great way to get a free mislynch in without getting suspicion.

But he probably isn't - that's too boring a role for this setup.

Eh, that's far-fetched.  And he wouldn't be given details of BA's role, just the name of it.  It could be indicative, but I doubt it would explain enough.  Plus, just too elaborate. 

[ashersky]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

Why Night 4 instead of Night 3?  Is there an even night clause?

There's a clause, and we'll leave it at that.

[Witherweaver]

Alright.. I can't say lynching someone that's pretty likely town sounds like worthwhile payment to do this.. what do you think?

[ashersky]

Look, there's an argument to be made that waiting isn't that bad, and if I'm killed, we lost a high-risk/high-reward power at worst.  The risk is really high.

Like, I don't know if all players will press the button for sure, which would cause bad things to happen.  I don't know if scum will also press the button, too, of if they think it's worth it just to get free reign on all their own powers (like, what if they are strong enough already?).

I mean, I think if scum were to just let us superpower town without upgrading themselves, that would be game over for them.  Which is why it's designed to be so risky, and also designed to be tempered by scum just getting upgraded too.

In the end, I see at worst just more fun if 100% of the players get upgraded, and at best way more fun PLUS crazier powers and hopefully a net gain for town.

What I like about it is that it's all or nothing -- there's disincentive for any faction to only have one player press the button, since it results in negative effects for the entire faction.

[ashersky]

Alright.. I can't say lynching someone that's pretty likely town sounds like worthwhile payment to do this.. what do you think?

I think...it's a wash at best, and more likely a net loss for town.  Without knowing how many factions or kills there are, it can be worrisome to have less numbers.  We can't accurately predict how many town there are, how many days/nights we have left, etc.

[xeiron]

Alright.. I can't say lynching someone that's pretty likely town sounds like worthwhile payment to do this.. what do you think?

I think the plan is worth it for us if it works, but we are almost certainly worse off if it doesn't.
The strictly best thing to do is probably to forget the plan and our roles and focus on scumhunting. There is less risk to that.
On the other hand, this is a role madness game. And here we have a plan to unlock even more role madness into the game. I really like what I have seen of the setup and the flavor so far. And I think it is hard to let go of an oppurtunity to explore the setup further.

Because of that I am in for the plan.
vote: Beyond Awesome
Maybe not the best or safest choice, but certainly the most fun one.

[xeiron]

If ash were a rolecop, this would be a great way to get a free mislynch in without getting suspicion.

But he probably isn't - that's too boring a role for this setup.

Eh, that's far-fetched.  And he wouldn't be given details of BA's role, just the name of it.  It could be indicative, but I doubt it would explain enough.  Plus, just too elaborate.

Plus Teproc was a role cop. There are limits for how many role cops there are room for in the setup.

[2.71828.....]

I need to reread BA, but based on his claim I think that he is town. 

So I don't want to lynch him, even if that means we won't be able to execute Ash's plan tonight.  I guess scum could fake-claim bodyguard, but I sincerely doubt it.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: xeiron

Scum goes along with lynching town with little risk.

[XerxesPraelor]

I also think BA is definitely town because of this (if he's not, ash is scum) so we'd be losing a quasi-IC.

[ashersky]

I also think BA is definitely town because of this (if he's not, ash is scum) so we'd be losing a quasi-IC.

How are BA and my alignments linked?

Whether BA is town (sounds likely) or scum (unlikely), it has no bearing on anything I've claimed.  He's basically stopped dead the plan, which is possibly in scum's best interest, but it's something someone of any alignment might want to do for any number of unknown reasons.

Basically I'm failing to see how BA and I have our alignments connected.

[Awaclus]

I don't want to lynch BA today.

[XerxesPraelor]

Look, there's an argument to be made that waiting isn't that bad, and if I'm killed, we lost a high-risk/high-reward power at worst.  The risk is really high.

Like, I don't know if all players will press the button for sure, which would cause bad things to happen.  I don't know if scum will also press the button, too, of if they think it's worth it just to get free reign on all their own powers (like, what if they are strong enough already?).

I mean, I think if scum were to just let us superpower town without upgrading themselves, that would be game over for them.  Which is why it's designed to be so risky, and also designed to be tempered by scum just getting upgraded too.

In the end, I see at worst just more fun if 100% of the players get upgraded, and at best way more fun PLUS crazier powers and hopefully a net gain for town.

What I like about it is that it's all or nothing -- there's disincentive for any faction to only have one player press the button, since it results in negative effects for the entire faction.

This is what links your alignments.

[ashersky]

I still don't understand.

If you mean that me saying it could be good to wait/not lynch BA could mean that if he's scum, I'm scum protecting him...then I guess.  But you could say that about everyone who doesn't want to lynch him today.

[Witherweaver]

vote: xeiron

Scum goes along with lynching town with little risk.

I disagree.  Scum opposes the plan because it looks townie, or waits until it's kosher to go along.  Those sitting back without an opinion are more likely scum.

[Hydrad]

I disagree with lynching BA just because we want to try to get superpowers. I think all in all it would just be a balanced ish game if everyone upgraded except that we decided to lynch a potential townie for it.

[Awaclus]

I disagree with lynching BA just because we want to try to get superpowers. I think all in all it would just be a balanced ish game if everyone upgraded except that we decided to lynch a potential townie for it.

Everyone is a potential townie.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Hydrad

[Hydrad]

I disagree with lynching BA just because we want to try to get superpowers. I think all in all it would just be a balanced ish game if everyone upgraded except that we decided to lynch a potential townie for it.

Everyone is a potential townie.

Ok yes. I guess I see him as a really high potential for being towny.

[Beyond Awesome]

I just want everyone to know I go back to work on Wed. so I won't be able to post in as much. I work ten hour shifts and am pretty exhausted by the time I get home. I will be checking in though before leaving for work and when getting back.

I think we need to come up with a consensus on the button soon. Also, we should try doing a little scum hunting.

[silverspawn]

I have no opinion about the BA thing. I think we should do a vote or something. Well, that conflicts with me having no opinion about it, doesn't it? I'd guess I'd vote for not doing it if I had to decide.

[xeiron]

I have no opinion about the BA thing. I think we should do a vote or something. Well, that conflicts with me having no opinion about it, doesn't it? I'd guess I'd vote for not doing it if I had to decide.

We are doing a vote.
If you are for executing the plan today, you vote for Beyond Awesome.
If you are against, you vote for someone else.
If you cannot push the button or otherwise will not comply with the plan even if the majority goes for it, you say so.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Hydrad

I re-read Hydrad and I have a couple of questions (I don't know anything about the flavor and that's mostly why I'm asking).

1) Can we assume that Hydrad is telling the truth about not knowing the flavor?
2) If yes, is his claim something that would be difficult to fake flavor-wise?

If the answer to at least one of these questions is no, then I like a Hydrad lynch today.

[xeiron]

Vote: Hydrad

I re-read Hydrad and I have a couple of questions (I don't know anything about the flavor and that's mostly why I'm asking).

1) Can we assume that Hydrad is telling the truth about not knowing the flavor?
2) If yes, is his claim something that would be difficult to fake flavor-wise?

If the answer to at least one of these questions is no, then I like a Hydrad lynch today.

1) I believe Hydrad when he says that he does not know the flavor.
2) No idea.

The problem here is that if Hydrad is scum, he does not need to know the flavor himself in order to fakeclaim. He could have been prepped by a scummate who does.

[xeiron]

Some more question to Hydrad

3) Do you have status about the plan to have somebody targeting you at night? Do we need to target you on future nights?
4) Is it so that having everyone pushing the button (and nobody tareting you) would lead to bad stuff (if Jacob is in control of the Island)? 

[XerxesPraelor]

If BA is lynched, I'LLC push the button, but I don't think he should be. He might as well use the self-sacrificing thing and not waste our lynch.

[xeiron]

I'm happy with how many roles I see from my Pokemon game in recent setups.

I also want to hear the plan.

Just found this post.

XP, what roles do you see in this game that are similar to roles in your pokemon game?
Reino being Jack of all trades? Your own role?

[Awaclus]

The problem here is that if Hydrad is scum, he does not need to know the flavor himself in order to fakeclaim. He could have been prepped by a scummate who does.

That's a good point. Vote: Hydrad

[Robz888]

I want to lynch BA and press the button.

Vote: BA

[xxpittip]

If BA is lynched, I'LLC push the button, but I don't think he should be. He might as well use the self-sacrificing thing and not waste our lynch.

I agree with this, we should try to lynch scum today and let BA suicide.
It doesn't really hurt us if we get the powers one day later
+ if we are lucky and lynch a second scum we are in a really good position
+ we get the "decently beneficial" effect of BA's suicide
+ i'm pretty sure scum won't kill ash tonight because i'm almost 100% sure that we have someone with protective powers
+ If BA is actually scum and doesn't use his suicide we can just lynch him tomorrow

[Robz888]

YOU MAY HAVE ALL JUST RECEIVE A PM. DO NOT READ IT. DO NOT OPEN IT. DELETE IT WITHOUT READING IT, PLEASE.

MESSAGE ME DIRECTLY FOR CLARIFICATION IF NEED BE.

[Robz888]

And I'm locking this thread temporarily.

[faust]

I have to ask everyone to send me a PM indicating whether or not you read the PM reinoe apparently sent out. It goes without saying that you should answer truthfully... or at least I thought such things go without saying, but I'm not sure anymore.

Thread remains locked!

[faust]

Thank you for your quick answers. I've received enough to realize that this game cannot continue. I apologize to everyone for not having handled the reinoe situation better.

[Hydrad]

well good game I guess.

[Beyond Awesome]

good this sucks!

I am really sorry Faust. I can tell you put a ton of effort into this game. This whole thing really makes me upset.

[2.71828.....]

there was nothing you could do about reinoe sending a PM to everyone with sensitive information.

[Beyond Awesome]

Meant to say god this sucks. Not, good this sucks.

But, man, this is horrible. I saw the PM before I went to the thread.    I wish I never clicked on it.

[faust]

there was nothing you could do about reinoe sending a PM to everyone with sensitive information.

Well, he did make some threats by PM beforehand that I apparently didn't take serious enough.

[2.71828.....]

I just can't believe how petty and stupid this whole thing is.

I am in shock about it more than anything else.  I know people get mad and pissed off.  It happens.  But what reinoe did?  It is just immature and petty.

[Witherweaver]

I don't think it's your fault.. guy was obviously a jerk.

Is there a way this can be replayed, or is too much information out?  I feel bad because you obviously put a lot of work into this setup, and the mechanics seemed really interesting.

[faust]

I don't think it's your fault.. guy was obviously a jerk.

Is there a way this can be replayed, or is too much information out?  I feel bad because you obviously put a lot of work into this setup, and the mechanics seemed really interesting.

I don't think it would be possible without resetting everything, Dice Mafia style. I might do that if possible... man, I don't know. I'm not really in the mood for modding right now.

[xeiron]

I really loved the setup and the flavor. Too bad it had to end like this.

[A Drowned Kernel]

What a shitty thing to do. I find it hard to believe this kind of thing is tolerated over at mafiascum.

there was nothing you could do about reinoe sending a PM to everyone with sensitive information.

Well, he did make some threats by PM beforehand that I apparently didn't take serious enough.

This is in no way your fault, someone who's willing to do this kind of thing simply shouldn't be tolerated or allowed to play. I was excited for my role, and this game, and it's awful to see such a great setup and so much work by faust and arch put to waste.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I would 100% be up for a reboot. This setup was amazing faust, and I am sorry that this unpleasant character had to ruin things.

[silverspawn]

well... sorry for inviting him to this forum. I played a game on mafiascum with him in it, and he seemed like one of the most reasonable players, I thought it'd be fine.

[Witherweaver]

Note to self: never go to Mafiascum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If we did a reboot, then I would possibly be going into the game with some problematic information regarding the setup.

[Teproc]

Yeah, really awful. I reported him though I don't know if he technically did anything against forum rules, we'll see what theory wants to do. The fact that he titled the PM "an apology" or whatever it was really takes the cake.

Not much you could have done faust, you couldn't really have him banned just for making threats to ruin a forum game, and even then he could have found a way I'm sure.

[xeiron]

If we did a reboot, then I would possibly be going into the game with some problematic information regarding the setup.

Yes, If we just did a reboot and rerolled the roles, we would be able to solve the game with a massclaim D1. Thats how closed setups work. It might be possible to construct a new setup mostly  built on this, though, but that would take time.

[Robz888]

So, so, so, sorry faust. We are so appreciative of the effort you put in to make this awesome game. I was having a lot of fun in it.

While this is truly terrible, this is the first time in 100+ games that something like this has happened, which is a credit to how strong this community is, for the most part.

[Witherweaver]

Well, at least I strangled him.

[Teproc]

Well, at least I strangled him.

Calling dibs on this being my new signature.

[ashersky]

Truly petty and terrible.

Scum players, would you have pushed the button for the upgrades?

[liopoil]

Just curious, was he scum?

[xeiron]

Truly petty and terrible.

Scum players, would you have pushed the button for the upgrades?

I was planning having you roleblocked...

Never quite trusted what you said about the upgrade part. Were you telling the truth?

[xeiron]

Just curious, was he scum?

Reinoe? yes. And he just sent the scum QT to all players by PM.

[pacovf]

Wow. Like... wow.

Sad to see how things ended. This was a lot of fun to spectate.

[ashersky]

Just curious, was he scum?

Yes.  He sent everyone the contents of his QT.

[ashersky]

Truly petty and terrible.

Scum players, would you have pushed the button for the upgrades?

I was planning having you roleblocked...

Never quite trusted what you said about the upgrade part. Were you telling the truth?

Sort of...

I was town though.  It was to be my greatest triumph ever.  Was going to win (or lose) the game single-handedly.

I'm sure Faust was shaking his head at me.

[ashersky]

I'm bummed.  Great game.

As Robz said, it's a testament to our community that this has never happened before.

I look forward to the next Faust creation, which I'm sure will be awesome.

[xeiron]

Truly petty and terrible.

Scum players, would you have pushed the button for the upgrades?

I was planning having you roleblocked...

Never quite trusted what you said about the upgrade part. Were you telling the truth?

Sort of...

I was town though.  It was to be my greatest triumph ever.  Was going to win (or lose) the game single-handedly.

I'm sure Faust was shaking his head at me.

Sort of?
So there was a sectret trap in there?

[A Drowned Kernel]

The thing is, ash's plan was better for town than anyone realized (assuming he wasn't roleblocked), because scum had a traitor they didn't know about (me), and there was no way for us to coordinate all pushing the button or not pushing. I probably would have pushed the button and crossed my fingers.

[ashersky]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Wow, that is really a huge shame.  As someone who has been harmed in a game by sensitive information being transmitted in-thread, and causing a premature game end, I feel all your pain.

The flavor was amazing, and if this doesn't get rebooted, perhaps we will all know of the mechanics and roles.  Faust, you are to be congratulated.

@Ashersky, Archtype, and any other powers involved.  Solely on the basis of what we saw, I think this game needs to be nominated (in December) for best flavor.

[xeiron]

So there was a traitor after all.
I had thought about the possibility, but after the flavor when Teproc died I thought two scumteams of 3 + the man in black was more likely.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

That would have been amazing, I was also totally buying your plan and would have died.

[xeiron]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

Awesome... simply Awesome.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

Haha.  I really wanted to try your plan out of curiosity.  (I was Town, too.)  I couldn't really convince myself lynching BA would be worth it, though, based on just what you said.  I nevertheless wanted to see what would happen.

[Beyond Awesome]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

Wow! That plan was insane. Anyway, I thought you were town just because Desmond is like one of the most townie people on the show.

Anyway, I was telling the truth about my role. I don't think anyone doubted me. My suicide ability though was nothing to incredibly special. I pretty much block all kills and die instead. I guess it could have saved some town casualties.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So there was a traitor after all.
I had thought about the possibility, but after the flavor when Teproc died I thought two scumteams of 3 + the man in black was more likely.

Yep, I knew your guy's flavor names but not who you were (so I knew reinoe when he claimed).

[xeiron]

So there was a traitor after all.
I had thought about the possibility, but after the flavor when Teproc died I thought two scumteams of 3 + the man in black was more likely.

Yep, I knew your guy's flavor names but not who you were (so I knew reinoe when he claimed).

So you could be recruited?

[xxpittip]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

Nice plan, i would've propably pushed the button instead of captaining you.
Nice setup, too. Really sad that something like that had to happen :/

[A Drowned Kernel]

So there was a traitor after all.
I had thought about the possibility, but after the flavor when Teproc died I thought two scumteams of 3 + the man in black was more likely.

Yep, I knew your guy's flavor names but not who you were (so I knew reinoe when he claimed).

So you could be recruited?

If I had been NK'd, I wouldn't have died, me and my killer would have a QT the next day, and we would be able to redirect the kill during twilight. After that, communication would have been over, which is important because I could also target people and make them either unblockable or ninjas.

[silverspawn]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

I actually considered that this might happen. I'm not sure if I would have pushed it or not. Not that it would have mattered for anyone except myself though.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

I actually considered that this might happen. I'm not sure if I would have pushed it or not. Not that it would have mattered for anyone except myself though.

survivor?

[xeiron]

Yeah...I definitely could remove the button from the game, but...

Anyone pushing at the time would have died.

The goal was to be the only player left alive, thereby winning for all town.

I was not even close to confident yet that it was going to work, and the game ended without us getting to further discuss it.

Roleblocking wasn't the worst thing ever, as at least no one would have died.

I actually considered that this might happen. I'm not sure if I would have pushed it or not. Not that it would have mattered for anyone except myself though.

You were the man in black, then?

[silverspawn]

You were the man in black, then?

No, I was Jacob, survivor, and had control over the Island. I could choose between a bunch of twilight powers every night, like spread the ashes (I didn't know what they would do though).

[Archetype]

Ugh. Really upset that this happened. I had a lot of fun designing these roles with Faust, and am really devested that we didn't get to see them pan out. Especially because of the amount of work we put into them.

I have links to all the setup stuff, but Faust should be the one to reveal that. Thanks for playing, everyone.

[XerxesPraelor]

Can I look at the PM now?

Also, this is really a horrible thing to do. The setup was amazing, and I'm really disappointed it ended like that.

[theory]

Yeah, really awful. I reported him though I don't know if he technically did anything against forum rules, we'll see what theory wants to do. The fact that he titled the PM "an apology" or whatever it was really takes the cake.

Not much you could have done faust, you couldn't really have him banned just for making threats to ruin a forum game, and even then he could have found a way I'm sure.

I banned him instantly when I saw the PM.  Guess it was too late then

I'll also contact mith of mafiascum and let him know.

[liopoil]

...Theory reads all of our PMs?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I've always assumed he does, just to keep an eye out for nefarious activity.  There may actually be liability issues in hosting a forum.

[Beyond Awesome]

Can I look at the PM now?

Also, this is really a horrible thing to do. The setup was amazing, and I'm really disappointed it ended like that.

I clicked on it and already saw some of the contents. I was not aware of what it was about and did go to this thread since a pop up comes up whenever we get PMs. Anyway, after faust declared the game ended, I read the rest of the PM. So, it's out there now, and I'm sure others have read it. It is the entire scum QT and gives away everything pretty much, at least scum-wise.

[Hydrad]

was jacob in control of the island? If so I was also deathproof so I wouldn't of died from the button.

[Jimmmmm]

Was the PM malicious or was he just clueless about what was ok and what wasn't? Judging by his last few posts he didn't seem terribly upset but seemed to think it was okay to out his partners.

[Beyond Awesome]

Was the PM malicious or was he just clueless about what was ok and what wasn't? Judging by his last few posts he didn't seem terribly upset but seemed to think it was okay to out his partners.

The PM wasn't malicious. He just PM'd everyone the entire SCUM QT and it was titled An Apology for my behavior, or something to that extent.

[Beyond Awesome]

Anyway, I'm pretty sure he knew what he was doing wasn't okay.

[Jimmmmm]

Was the PM malicious or was he just clueless about what was ok and what wasn't? Judging by his last few posts he didn't seem terribly upset but seemed to think it was okay to out his partners.

The PM wasn't malicious. He just PM'd everyone the entire SCUM QT and it was titled An Apology for my behavior, or something to that extent.

Weird.

[Beyond Awesome]

faust says that reinoe was sending him threats and that he just ignored them. I guess reinoe acted upon his threats.

Did you follow the game. reinoe was acting pretty terrible and then told TA that he was going to be a dick towards him so Faust removed reinoe's voting privilage for an entire day. He gets lynched, claims he's scum and then says that scum was on his wagon. It was true, but most players did not believe him. I guess he was still upset about the game for some reason....because faust wouldn't allow him to vote an entire day?

[liopoil]

I was only sort-of-following, but he had me fooled for sure... I thought he was town.

[Jimmmmm]

faust says that reinoe was sending him threats and that he just ignored them. I guess reinoe acted upon his threats.

Did you follow the game. reinoe was acting pretty terrible and then told TA that he was going to be a dick towards him so Faust removed reinoe's voting privilage for an entire day. He gets lynched, claims he's scum and then says that scum was on his wagon. It was true, but most players did not believe him. I guess he was still upset about the game for some reason....because faust wouldn't allow him to vote an entire day?

No I didn't, I just read his last few posts.

[pacovf]

I thought he was saying the truth... but because he was also trying to find the second scum faction (which doesn't exist, if I understood correctly), the rambling was incoherent enough to just ignore it as WIFOM.

The revealed PRs are really awesome, by the way. It might be better to not share any more, maybe Faust can salvage them for his next game? Whenever he doesn't feel disenchanted with modding anymore, of course.

[theory]

...Theory reads all of our PMs?

I've always assumed he does, just to keep an eye out for nefarious activity.  There may actually be liability issues in hosting a forum.

Sorry, let me clarify that.  I 100% cannot read PMs on this site unless someone reports it.  Teproc reported the PM to me, and upon reading it I banned reinoe.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm really sorry Faust, i feel that i had a small role in setting him off my basically disengaging immediately. Obviously the guy is a jerk.

I'm looking forward to reading the setup if you end up publishing it. It seemed awesome from what I've seen 

[pacovf]

You cannot, as in, it is physically impossible, or as in, you would get into trouble if you did?

[A Drowned Kernel]

You cannot, as in, it is physically impossible, or as in, you would get into trouble if you did?

He would get arrested by the Internet Police.

[Beyond Awesome]

I'm really sorry Faust, i feel that i had a small role in setting him off my basically disengaging immediately. Obviously the guy is a jerk.

I'm looking forward to reading the setup if you end up publishing it. It seemed awesome from what I've seen

Really this is only the fault of one person and one person alone. No one is responsible for reinoe actions except himself.

[theory]

You cannot, as in, it is physically impossible, or as in, you would get into trouble if you did?

Cannot as in physically impossible.  SMF is designed such that admins cannot view the PMs of their members.  In addition, SMF automatically rejects any mod that allows admins to do that.  I am not aware of any mod out there that would allow me to do so; I suppose I can't definitively rule out that possibility, but I promise that I never have or will install it.

If a PM is objectionable, you can report it and I will see it.  Otherwise I honestly could not care less what you guys PM each other.

[pacovf]

Phew, so the naked pictures of myself I sent to silver stay safe.

[zoraster]

The admins of Mafiascum have just been made aware of this situation. On behalf of Mafiascum, I'd like to apologize for reinoe. This kind of action would never be tolerated on Mafiascum, and -- to the extent we have power -- it will not be tolerated by our site when it occurs on another site. Forum mafia is a game that only works with the trust of other users, and I deeply regret that a user on our site would violate that trust.

We have permanently banned reinoe from our site. That doesn't fix the harm that's occurred to this game, unfortunately, but it's as much as we can do (absent a Lost-esque sideways universe contraption).

Again, I'm sorry this happened. I hope you won't hold it against any of our many great members who decide to play here.

[Beyond Awesome]

Phew, so the naked pictures of myself I sent to silver stay safe.

Actually silver posted those all over his social media sounds I'm afraid

[Beyond Awesome]

Sorry meant accounts. Phone posting

[Untrod Tripod]

Hi guys,

I'm a forum mod on mafiascum.net

I just I wanted to let you know that reinoe has been permanently banned from our forums for his actions in this game. What he did is absolutely not tolerated from our members and we are deeply sorry that someone who called our community home did this.

[Untrod Tripod]

I see zoraster beat me to the punch.

Regardless, I wanted to say it too.

[theory]

You guys are sweet <3

[reckonerX]

Note to self: never go to Mafiascum.

We're not all bad, I promise.

I'm just a regular user over there. I read this game. What a kick ass setup! I ran a series of LOST themed games over on Mafiascum (one for each season) and this one blew it out of the water. Really cool.

Sorry about reinoe. He's kind of a dick to deal with over on MafiaScum as well, so while I am very sorry this happened, I'm glad everyone got to see the type of person he really is.

[Twistedarcher]

Thanks, guys. It's much appreciated. FWIW, I played a game there once and had a good time (it's definitely a different pace than I was used to, though.)

[Teproc]

Thanks to theory and the mafiascum guys, pretty happy he didn't get away with this.

[pacovf]

Nice detail by the guys from MafiaScum. Better not to have a negative stereotype of the whole site because of a single individual. Kudos.

Phew, so the naked pictures of myself I sent to silver stay safe.

Actually silver posted those all over his social media sounds I'm afraid

Damn, you are right. They are all over google now.

(mmm, warning for mildly explicit content?)

[mith]

Thanks to theory for letting me know about the issue here so we could address it. As expressed already, we have no tolerance for this sort of breach of trust, and it does not reflect the values of the mafiascum community.

(Also, miss you guys! I only managed 10 plays of Dominion in 2014, shameful.)

[Witherweaver]

Note to self: never go to Mafiascum.

We're not all bad, I promise.

I'm just a regular user over there. I read this game. What a kick ass setup! I ran a series of LOST themed games over on Mafiascum (one for each season) and this one blew it out of the water. Really cool.

Sorry about reinoe. He's kind of a dick to deal with over on MafiaScum as well, so while I am very sorry this happened, I'm glad everyone got to see the type of person he really is.

I didn't actually mean that about all you guys; I was only joking in response to Silver saying that Reinoe seemed to be one of the more reasonable guys there.  I've actually read over a few games on your site, and of course used it for reference.

Thanks for coming here and weighing in; we appreciate it.

[ashersky]

I also really appreciate the support from the mafiascum mods and members.  It's great to see and read.

Thanks also to theory.

[Robz888]

Thanks, mafiascum peeps! We do really appreciate the support, that's very cool of you guys.

[ashersky]

Thanks, mafiascum peeps! We do really appreciate the support, that's very cool of you guys.

Now stick around for a game!

[Robz888]

Thanks, mafiascum peeps! We do really appreciate the support, that's very cool of you guys.

Now stick around for a game!

Heh heh, I just might.

[faust]

Thanks for all the support guys I was really upset about what happened yesterday, but reading all your responses made me feel better. I'll definitely do another RMM game, but not sure if I can reuse the Lost theme without repeating myself... we'll see.

I have decided to give out all the setup information, because it would be unfair to have some people have more information should there be a rework, and also to satisfy your curiosity.

[faust]

Third party PMs:

"The cork is this island, and it's the only thing keeping the darkness where it belongs."

Welcome to the Island, silverspawn!

You are Jacob, the Man-in-Black-immune Survivor/Dreaming God.

You are here to protect this Island, and the light in its heart, as you have been for a long time. But there is a force working against you, a darkness that you yourself created in a moment of weakness. The fights between the people you bring here are merely a game, but the thread from the black smoke is serious. You will use all your powers to ensure that the darkness will not spread to the rest of the world.

You are a Survivor. You win if you are still alive at the end of the game. You have access to a personal QT here: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/F8tPxXZCKSDg

These are your powers:

Protector of the Island: You are a Dreaming God. Each Day at twilight, you must choose one of the powers listed in your QT that you have not chosen before. Each power affects the game in some way. You are not aware of what the powers do until after you chose them. Some of the powers may require you to make some additional choices.

The rules: The thing that once was your brother cannot hurt you. All actions taken by Man-In-Black aligned players have no effect on you.

Please confirm via PM or in your personal QT.

If what you said was the truth, if Kate was raising Aaron... I'd kill her."

Welcome to the Island, 2.71828...!

You are Claire Littleton, the Man-in-Black-aligned 1-shot Deathproof 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owner/Modified Universal Backup.

You have been out in the jungle by yourself for three years. Or well, you haven't been all by yourself. You have met a new friend, the Man in Black. He told you that the others took your baby - that they took Aaron! How could they? You have sworn to yourself to get Aaron back, and to take your revenge on all those who are responsible for your separation.

You are Man-in-Black-aligned. Each night, you may send the smoke monster to a player of your choice. That player will die. You win if all other players have died, even if you yourself are no longer alive. You have access to a personal QT here: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Bi4e2fkqhat

These are your powers:

Jungle Survivalist: You are 1-shot Deathproof. The first attempt to kill you will fail. If the first attempt to kill you is a lynch, there will be no death and the game will immediately move to Twilight.

Shoot first, talk later: You are a 1-shot Paranoid Gun Owner. Once during the game, instead of using your factional kill, you may choose to go on alert with your rifle. Each player targeting you that night will die.

Impersonate the dead: Your friend, the Man in Black, has the power to appear as any dead player. Once at any point in the game, you may choose one dead player. That player will join the game, controlled by you. You may use you QT to control their vote and their night action. You may not post in their stead and will not be granted access to any QTs that player had. The player you chose is treated as a member of the game for all purposes. Once he dies again, you may not choose another player.

Please confirm via PM or in your personal QT.

[faust]

Others PMs:

"I just wanted you to understand how you were going to die."

Welcome to the Island, xeiron!

You are Jack Shephard, the Other-aligned Doublevoting Doctor.

Nothing is keeping you on this island. After you and your friend were captured by the Others, and you saw Kate and Sawyer on that surveillance cam, all you want to do is leave. So you made a deal with the Others. You are going to help them win back the Island, and they will send you home. The people from Oceanic 815 still think of you as their leader, which might make manipulating them easier.

You are Other-aligned, along with [player name] and [player name]. You have a factional QT where you may talk during Twilight and Night: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/SLHaZZVRYG2 Every night, one of you may carry out your faction's night kill, shooting another player. You win when the majority of the living players is Other-aligned and all threats to your faction have been eliminated, or nothing can stop that from happening.

These are your powers:

Follow the leader: You control two votes. At any point during the Day, you may send a PM to the mod to activate or deactivate your second vote. If you activate, a second vote will be added to the person you are currently voting for. If you deactivate, that vote will be removed. Your second vote will not auotmatically change if you change your vote.

Fixing things: You are a Doctor. Each night, you may use your medicine on one other player. That player will be protected from a single night kill.

Please confirm via PM or in your factional QT.

"How many times do I have to tell you, John? I always have a plan."

Welcome to the Island, xxpittip!

You are Benjamin Linus, the Other-aligned Following Semi-Investigation-Immune Universal Captain/Roleblocker.

You spent your life in service of this island; each and every order Jacob sent you via Richard - you obeyed without question. Now he wants you to give up your power and let someone else take over - but you've had enough. Those intruders, "Candidates" as Jacob calls them, know nothing about this island. Your time is not over yet. Those who agree to join you will stay alive, but everyone else needs to be eliminated.

You are Other-aligned, along with xeiron and reinoe. You have a factional QT where you may talk during Twilight and Night: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/SLHaZZVRYG2 Every night, one of you may carry out your faction's night kill, shooting another player. It is however possible for you to perform a twilight action and a night action in the same game phase. You win when the majority of the living players is Other-aligned and all threats to your faction have been eliminated, or nothing can stop that from happening.

These are your powers:

Master manipulator: Every day at twilight, you may choose one other player, and a target for that player. The syntax for that order is Captain: [Player A] -> [Player B]. Player A will have a choice tonight: Either target Player B, or perform no night action at all. This allows players to target people they would normally be unable to target. If the player you selected cannot target other players, they will simply be roleblocked. At the end of the night, you will be informed about the kind of action that your target performed that night.

Expert liar: You are immune to one kind of investigation that is part of this game.

Please confirm via PM or in your factional QT.

"Everything's going to change. Have a cluckity cluck-cluck day, Hugo."

Welcome to the Island, reinoe!

You are Jin-Soo Kwon, the Other-aligned Neighbor/Modified Jack Of All Trades.

It was all a lie. She'd tell you the whole truth, your wife said to you, and then you had to hear from Juliet that she had another man. All the steps you've taken to rebuild your relationship - it was all for nothing. She dishonored you and your marriage. All you want to do now is leave this rock. You made a deal with the Others: They're going to let you go, but you have to offer them your services in return. Ironically, a bargain quite similar to the one that allowed you to marry Sun...

You are Other-aligned, along with xeiron and xxpittip. You have a factional QT where you may talk during Twilight and Night: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/SLHaZZVRYG2 Every night, one of you may carry out your faction's night kill, shooting another player. You win when the majority of the living players is Other-aligned and all threats to your faction have been eliminated, or nothing can stop that from happening.

These are your powers:

No English: You and your wife speak Korean, unlike the rest of the people from the plane. You can therefore communicate secretly. You have a shared QT that is open at all times: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/vfyvJ88ZXMx

Mr Paik's right hand: You are a Jack Of All Trades. You have four 1-shot powers to be used at night (or, if stated that way, at twilight). You may not perform more than one action per night. Your 1-shot abilities are:
Tracker: Choose another player. You will be informed who, if anyone, that player targeted that night.
Sidekick: Choose another player. All non-killing night actions that target them will instead target you.
Motivator: At twilight, choose another player. That player may use two night actions tonight.
Role Cop: You may target one player, and will be told that player's role name. Any alignment-revealing parts of the role (Survivor etc.) will remain hidden to you.
Encryptor: Your faction's QT will remain open the following Day phase.

A Fisherman's Son: Each night, in addition any other action you take, you may choose to fish for better items, using one unused JOAT shot, by sending the order Fish: power. If you do, thepower you selected will be lost and you will gain one power randomly selected out of the following:
Commuter: You cannot be targeted by any player tonight. You may not perform any other action on the night you are using this power.
Rolestopper: Choose another player. All other actions except kills targeting that player tonight will fail.
Bus Driver: Choose two players (you may target yourself). All actions targeting one of these players tonight with instead target the other one.
Watcher: Choose another player. You will learn the names of all players targeting them tonight.
Nexus: All actions except kills targeting you tonight will be reflected to other players. Thenew targets re determined randomly among all other players.

Please confirm via PM or in your factional QT.

"Waaaaaaaaaaalt!"

Welcome to the Island, A Drowned Kernel!

You are Michael Dawson, the Other-aligned Traitor/Modifier.

Since you've stranded here, you've grown ever more attached to your son. You swore you would not allow anyone to harm him. When the Others took him, you went after them, and they trapped you. Now you have a deal with them: Help them win the Island back, and they'll let you have your son. You hate to betray your friends, but Walt is your son - they have to understnad that.

You are an Other-aligned Traitor. You win when the majority of the living players is Other-aligned and all threats to your faction have been eliminated, or nothing can stop that from happening. The rest of your faction does not know that you exist. You only know the flavor names of your partners: Jack Shepard, Benjamin Linus, Jin-Soo Kwon.

These are your powers:

Construction Worker: Each night you may construct one of the following Modifiers and choose a player to have it effect:
Ninja: Any action they complete will be invisible to investigative roles.
Strong-Willed: Any actions they complete cannot be redirected or blocked.

Walt?: If the Others target you with their factional kill for the first time, it will fail and instead a QT will be opened for the following day for you and whoever completed the kill to talk in. There, you will decide on a new recipient for the kill which will resolve at the end of Twilight.

You are provided with a safe fake flavor claim in case you need one. It is Mister Eko.

Please confirm via PM.

[faust]

Town PMs:

"There's a new sheriff in town boys! Ya'll best get used to it."

Welcome to the Island, Witherweaver!

You are James "Sawyer" Ford, the Town-aligned Macho Switch/Restricted Sensor.

You never liked how things were handled since you stranded here. While the rest of the group might be fine with the Doc and Locke making all the calls, you're not. But since they won't listen to you, you had to make them listen. You used your conning skills to get a hold of all the guns and medicine. How you loved the look in their faces when they realized what happened. If only you could pull a similar trick on the Others that have infiltrated your camp...

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

New sheriff in town: You are a Switch. Every night, you may choose to flip the switch, changing its position from OFF to ON or vice versa. This counts as a night action for all purposes. At the start of the game, the switch is set to OFF. If you die, the switch will again be set to OFF. If the switch is ON, all roles that use guns or medicine for their flavor will be unable to perform a night action.

Every man for himself: You are Macho. No protective role can prevent your death.

The long con: The second time you are part of a wagon that lynches a Town-aligned player, you will be told the identity of one non-Town-aligned player that was on this wagon with you at the end of the following night.

Please confirm via PM.

"You're just jealous my power's better than yours."

Welcome to the Island, XerxesPraelor!

You are Hugo "Hurley" Reyes, the Town-aligned Loved Medium.

After you returned from the Island, you thought you were going crazy. At random, people who have died would visit you and talk to you. You went back to Santa Rosa, but it didn't stop. Only after you had a talk with Jacob, you realized that maybe you're not crazy at all. After all, being able to talk to the ones you lost isn't so bad, is it?

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Talk to the dead: Each night, you my target one other player. If a player you previously targeted dies, the mod will open a QT for the two of you which remains open for the following game phase. (i.e. if they die during the day, it will stay open for one night, if they die at night, it will stay open for one day)

Everybody loves Hugo: You are loved. It takes one more vote to lynch you, but it will never take more votes than there are other living players in the game.

Please confirm via PM.

"I've looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw... was beautiful."

Welcome to the Island, Ichimaru Gin!

You are John Locke, the Town-aligned Tracker/1-shot Strong-Willed Vigilante.

The others might not see it yet, but you know: You all are here for a reason. This is your purpose, this is your destiny. Many of the survivors are looking for a way to leave this place, but you're here to stay. This island is a place where miracles happen, and you need to protect it against all those who mean to harm it. You offer all your abilities in service of this island, and to protect your people. If this means you have to make use of your gun, then so be it.

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Walkabout: You are a Tracker. Each night, you may target one other player. You will be informed who, if anyone, that player targeted that night.

Sacrifice that the Island demanded: You are a 1-shot Strong-Willed Vigilante. Once during the game, instead of using your tracking ability, you may choose to shoot one other player. This shot cannot be redirected or blocked.

Please confirm via PM.

"Being told what to do was my life for four years... I didn't like it much either."

Welcome to the Island, Twistedarcher!

You are Sun-Hwa Kwon, the Town-aligned Neighbor/Modified Jack Of All Trades.

This Island was the salvation of your marriage. Before arriving here, you planned to leave Jin and run away. Here, slowly but surely, he changed your mind. You are close again, far away from your father and all that made your life so miserable. But you're afraid to lose Jin again. You have done things in the past that you think he cannot forgive you. You can't tell him everything. This weighs heavy on your mind; from time to time, you need to spend some time alone in your garden to get calm again.

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

No English: You and your husband speak Korean, unlike the rest of the people from the plane. You can therefore communicate secretly. You have a shared QT that is open at all times: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/vfyvJ88ZXMx

Gardening: Each night, including N0, you have two night actions. You may grow herbs or use herbs with each of them. If you grow herbs, a 1-shot power will be added to your garden, available for use the following night. If you use herbs, you spend one of the previously grown herbs to perform a 1-shot night action. You have access to a QT that shows the state of your garden at all times: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/HAQTxfL7cCu3v These are the herbs you can grow:
Gun Doctor: Protects against a single night kill from the kills using a gun in their flavor the night it is used.
Non-Gun Doctor: Protects against a single night kill from kills using something other than a gun in their flavor the night it is used.
Lynchproofer: Choose a player. The following day, no one can vote against that player, and they cannot be lynched that day. May not be used on the same player twice.

Please confirm via PM or in your personal QT.

"It's what needs to be done to get us all rescued. I'll be fine, Claire. But you gotta promise me something; while I'm gone, don't worry about me."

Welcome to the Island, Beyond Awesome!

You are Charlie Pace, the Fixed Compulsory Bodyguard/1-shot Suicidal Kill Blocker.

Things having been developing rather nicely for you since you crashed here. You successfully fought your heroin addiction, and even managed to build a relationship with Claire. It all changed when you talked to Desmond. He told you that you were supposed to die. For a while, that prospect left you unable to do anything. But now you see your purpose: If you have to die, then you will at least make bloody sure that your death helps Claire, the baby and everyone of your friends!

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Protect Claire: Each night, you will target the player with the flavor name Claire Littleton. If she would die, you die instead. You cannot choose another target. As you will always target someone, it is not possible for you to push the button at any time.

Not Penny's Boat: Once during the game, you may choose to activate this power. If you do, all kills happening that night are blocked and you die instead.

Please confirm via PM.

"Then I don't want to die... I want to live forever."

Welcome to the island, Hydrad!

You are Richard Alpert, the Town-aligned Enabled Deathproof Oracle/Triggered Switch.

Having lost all you ever cared for, you came to this island. You thought you were in hell, but then you met Jacob, and he convinced you otherwise. Jacob touched you, and gave you the gift of eternal life. But is it really a gift? Sometimes you feel that it's more of a curse. Since then, you are Jacob's messenger, and that means you know a lot more about this island than most of your people.

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Touched by Jacob: As long as Jacob has power over this island, you are Deathproof. If you would be lynched, the Day ends without a lynch instead. Kills targeting you at night will have no effect. However, this comes with a price: Every night you are not targeted by any player, all active protective Town roles will be blocked. This effect ends as soon as you are no longer Deathproof.

In the shadow of the statue: You are an Oracle. Every night, you may ask one question about the setup to the mod that can be answered with "yes" or "no". You may only ask questions that the mod could have known before roles were assigned, and you may not ask any question involving flavor names. The mod will answer your question truthfully. It is up to the mod's discretion to decide whether or not a question is acceptable. If your question is refuted, you may ask another one instead. Asking a question counts as a night action for all purposes. You can ask your questions here: http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/BKCgL7vgSSJ

Please confirm via PM or in your personal QT.

"My name is Sayid Jarrah, and I am a torturer."

Welcome to the Island, Teproc!

You are Sayid Jarrah, the Town-aligned 1-shot Lynchproof Public Role Cop.

During your service in the Republican Guard, you did things you never knew you were capable of. You are still haunted by the faces of the people you tortured. You swore to never use these skills again, and yet... The people you are with know nothing of war, and war is what happens out there. You will do what needs to be done to ensure their safety.

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Torturer: Every night, you may target a player. If you do, at the start of the following Day, that player's role will be publicly announced. Any modifiers to that role will remain secret, and alignment-revealing roles will not be announced. If you torture a player, you will become Super Hated, and for the rest of the game, it will take two votes less to lynch you. The hatedness stacks with multiple uses of your power.

Republican Guard Survival Training: You are 1-shot Lynchproof. The first time you would be lynched, all votes are reset instead and for the rest of the day, it will become impossible to vote for you or lynch you.

Please confirm via PM.

"I took care of you, Ma. I've got to go and you're not going to see me for awhile."

Welcome to the Island, chairs!

You are Kate Austen, the Town-aligned Arsonist/Triggered Miller.

After three years on the run, apparently this island is this place where all your past actions don't matter anymore. You are free to start over new - or are you? People like you now, but they don't know about your past? What if they found out, would they still trust you? You need to prove yourself worthy of their trust. How did Jack say? Live together, die alone? Is he right, or is it better to take out the threat on your own?

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Taking care: You are an Arsonist. Every night, you may target one player. That player will be primed. Alternatively, once during the entire game, you may choose to ignite. If you do, all primed players will be burned and killed.

Fugitive: You are a Miller. All Cop-like roles targeting you will receive a "guilty" result. This effect will be deactivated as soon as you successfully kill a player who is not Town-aligned.

Please confirm via PM.

"The light... it's strange out here, isn't it? It's kind of like, it doesn't, it doesn't scatter quite right."

Welcome to the Island, Awaclus!

You are Daniel Faraday, the Town-aligned Delaying Investigator.

When your biggest sponsor asked you to participate in this mission, you just couldn't refuse. You are able to conduct experiments here that you could only dream of back in Oxford, and yet your memory loss still troubles you. Sometimes, your results would just get mixed up. If only you could find your constant...

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Skipping Record: Target one player, and choose one:
A) One action that this player chooses to perform tonight will resolve one night later than it usually would. If the player performs multiple actions, the one last in the action resolution chain will be delayed.
B) One of the actions that other players choose to perform on this player tonight will resolve one night later than it usually would. If multiple actions are performed on the player, the one last in the action resolution chain will be delayed.

Memory loss: In addition to delaying, you may investigate the player you chose. If you do, one of A and B will be chosen randomly, without you knowing what was chosen. Either way, you will be informed about the kind of action that was delayed.

Please confirm via PM.

"I tried, brother. I've tried twice to save you, but the universe has a way of course-correcting, and I can't stop it forever."

Welcome to the Island, ashersky!

You are Desmond Hume, the Town-aligned Even-Night Savior/Failsafe.

For three years, you were stuck in this island. Then you've tried to escape, but there is no escaping it - the Island is all there is, all that's left. After an incident in the Hatch, you've started to get these flashes. Every once in a while, you see something that's about to happen. Maybe you can manage to stop things from happening. And should things get really bad, you still have that measure of last resort...

You are Town-aligned. You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player still alive.

These are your powers:

Flashes before your eyes: At the end of every even night in which you did not use any other ability, you will receive a list of flavor names. These are the players that are about to die that night. You may choose one of the flavor names. That player will be protected from the night kill. You may not choose the same player twice.

Failsafe: In even nights, you may choose to turn the failsafe key in the Hatch. This will result in an implosion of the hatch, killing every player who chose to push the button that night. Once you have used this ability, there will be no more need to push the button.

Please confirm via PM.

[faust]

QTs:

Others
Sun and Jin
Jacob
Man in Black
Sun's Garden
Richard's Oracle
Speccy

Not posting the mod QT right now as it contains personal PMs by reinoe.

[faust]

So the basic premise of the setup was to have a bigger conflict (Jacob vs MiB) on top of the smaller one (Others vs Town). We tried to work lots of interesting interactions into the roles, and Jacob's Dreaming God powers would do more to spice the setup up.

[silverspawn]

ash's pm is missing I think

[ashersky]

Yeah, I'm not there.  Desmond!

I like this setup a lot.  Really interesting.

A note: millers are generally bastard-only.  Then again, I had alignment-switching in Dune, so it's not a strict rule...

Did Teproc not perform an action N1?  I'm assuming he pressed the button.

[faust]

ash's pm is missing I think

Fixed.

[faust]

A note: millers are generally bastard-only.  Then again, I had alignment-switching in Dune, so it's not a strict rule...

Is there a reason why Millers are bastard-only? I mean, we allow all kinds of result-changing roles, and I don't quite see what separates a Miller from a Godfather. (Plus, there was not even a Cop in the setup, so the Miller was mainly flavor)

[faust]

Did Teproc not perform an action N1?  I'm assuming he pressed the button.

T1/N1:

Twilight actions:

silver (Jacob) spreads the ashes.
xxpittip (Ben) captains silver to asherksy

Result: silver is roleblocked.

Night actions:

ashersky (Desmond) pushes the button
Xerxes (Hurley) targets ashersky
Awaclus (Daniel) delays and investigates Xerxes (random assignment: one action that targets Xerxes gets delayed)
ADK (Michael) ninjaises Teproc
Ichi (Locke) tracks xeiron
BA (Charlie) doesn't use his power
2.7 (Claire) kills Teproc (same side of the ashes)
Robz (Sun) gun doctors Teproc
xxpittip (Ben) kills Teproc
chairs (Kate) primes 2.7
WW (Sawyer) flips the Switch
xeiron (Jack) doctors Hydrad
Hydrad (Richard) pushes the button
Teproc (Sayid) does nothing

[ashersky]

Wow, I'm the only one who pressed the button!

[Teproc]

No, Hydrad did too, and the only reason I didn't is that I completely fogot about it, I had a lot of things going on atthe time and I might even have missed the night action deadline.

I was pretty sure you were lying about your role on day 2 ash, and I didn't quite see the townnarrative so I figured you were scum... I still think it was a bad plan : as scum, I wouldn't have bought the upgrade thing and wouldn't have pushed the button.

I did naturally get killed by three scum factions, love it. Appreciate the protection Robz

[ashersky]

A note: millers are generally bastard-only.  Then again, I had alignment-switching in Dune, so it's not a strict rule...

Is there a reason why Millers are bastard-only? I mean, we allow all kinds of result-changing roles, and I don't quite see what separates a Miller from a Godfather. (Plus, there was not even a Cop in the setup, so the Miller was mainly flavor)

I don't know, to be honest.   Town Millers generally flip scum -- public mod "lying" is generally seen as bastard while private mod "lying" (a la godfathers) isn't.

If you return a wrong result only, I think that's a different role name, if his flip is right.

On a grander scale...town cop investigates town player, gets guilty.  Town lyncher him, flips town.  Now the town cop is lynched the next day.  That's rough.

PPE -- I missed Hydrad.

[Teproc]

I also was surprised to see Miller there, I too associate it with bastard games, though I can't say that I have anything against it per se (same as the alignment flipping in Dune).

Are Millers supposed to flip scum too ? Didn't know that.

[faust]

A note: millers are generally bastard-only.  Then again, I had alignment-switching in Dune, so it's not a strict rule...

Is there a reason why Millers are bastard-only? I mean, we allow all kinds of result-changing roles, and I don't quite see what separates a Miller from a Godfather. (Plus, there was not even a Cop in the setup, so the Miller was mainly flavor)

I don't know, to be honest.   Town Millers generally flip scum -- public mod "lying" is generally seen as bastard while private mod "lying" (a la godfathers) isn't.

If you return a wrong result only, I think that's a different role name, if his flip is right.

On a grander scale...town cop investigates town player, gets guilty.  Town lyncher him, flips town.  Now the town cop is lynched the next day.  That's rough.

PPE -- I missed Hydrad.

I think the role you are thinking about is "Death Miller" (which would flip with different alignment). That's mod lying, and thus bastard.

I don't think lynching a Miller reflects badly on the Cop - I mean, the Lynchee does flip Miller after all.

[ashersky]

No, Hydrad did too, and the only reason I didn't is that I completely fogot about it, I had a lot of things going on atthe time and I might even have missed the night action deadline.

I was pretty sure you were lying about your role on day 2 ash, and I didn't quite see the townnarrative so I figured you were scum... I still think it was a bad plan : as scum, I wouldn't have bought the upgrade thing and wouldn't have pushed the button.

I did naturally get killed by three scum factions, love it. Appreciate the protection Robz

The idea that we had multiple scum factions really made my plan harder to pull off...

Faust, were you laughing your head off at me?

[Hydrad]

Just wondering anyone have any ideas for what questions I could ask as the oracle? I spent a decent amount of time thinking about it but couldn't really think of a question that would help us out. I'm wondering if you guys had some ideas.

[Teproc]

Just wondering anyone have any ideas for what questions I could ask as the oracle? I spent a decent amount of time thinking about it but couldn't really think of a question that would help us out. I'm wondering if you guys had some ideas.

The first one that comes to mind would be "how many scum factions are there ?"

[faust]

The idea that we had multiple scum factions really made my plan harder to pull off...

Faust, were you laughing your head off at me?

Pretty much. I was quite happy that you got Desmond - it was a role that had lots of potential, and it was nice to see it in the hands of an experienced player who's also willing to take risks. "Blow everyone up" was a cool thought. I never thought you could convince so many players to follow the plan.

I wondered why you weren't afraid of being roleblocked or something. There was just so much that could go wrong.

[Teproc]

I wonder if Survivor counts as a scum faction in that case by the way.

[faust]

Just wondering anyone have any ideas for what questions I could ask as the oracle? I spent a decent amount of time thinking about it but couldn't really think of a question that would help us out. I'm wondering if you guys had some ideas.

Well, there's questions like "is role XY in this setup?" which can help discover fakeclaims and also create ICs.

[ashersky]

Is there more than one anti-town faction?
Is there a survivor?
Is there a godfather?

Etc.

[Teproc]

Oh right it's yes/no, I'm dumb. ash's forumation is better, though I would have assumed a minimum of two scum factions and gone "Are there more than two scum factions ?"

[ashersky]

The idea that we had multiple scum factions really made my plan harder to pull off...

Faust, were you laughing your head off at me?

Pretty much. I was quite happy that you got Desmond - it was a role that had lots of potential, and it was nice to see it in the hands of an experienced player who's also willing to take risks. "Blow everyone up" was a cool thought. I never thought you could convince so many players to follow the plan.

I wondered why you weren't afraid of being roleblocked or something. There was just so much that could go wrong.

To me, roleblocking wasn't so bad.  At least no one dies (from my action),

[Hydrad]

Oh right it's yes/no, I'm dumb. ash's forumation is better, though I would have assumed a minimum of two scum factions and gone "Are there more than two scum factions ?"

Ya this was one I was considering. But then I thought even if we know there is 3 does that really help town a ton? if anything it almost feels like it helps scum know that there are other teams.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Quite the setup - Faust, you did a great job.  I wasn't even playing, and am hugely disappointed that the entire community won't get to see this unfold.

Probably deserves a second nomination, for Best Setup.

[Witherweaver]

So why did Teproc show gun wounds in his flavor if I flipped the Switch?

[Witherweaver]

It also seemed like Reinoe was genuinely convinced that TA was scum, which I don't understand at all.  TA did just about nothing that is truly indicative of scum.  (And, he wasn't.)

[Witherweaver]

Part of what made me think that Reinoe might be scum was that his tunneling of TA began to feel fabricated.. like he had committed himself to having a scum read on TA and just felt he had to push it.  It reminded me a bit of Ash v Andrew in Wheel of Time.    (And I had thought about posting something very similar to what Ash did where Ash voted for Reinoe, but I decided to hold off and observe more.)

[chairs]

faust Would you share what the dreaming god powers were going to be, and under what circumstances Jacob would lose control of the Island?

[scott_pilgrim]

Just wondering anyone have any ideas for what questions I could ask as the oracle? I spent a decent amount of time thinking about it but couldn't really think of a question that would help us out. I'm wondering if you guys had some ideas.

"Is ash's plan going to kill us all?"

[Witherweaver]

Just wondering anyone have any ideas for what questions I could ask as the oracle? I spent a decent amount of time thinking about it but couldn't really think of a question that would help us out. I'm wondering if you guys had some ideas.

"Is ash's plan going to kill us all?"

If you're on Ash's team and Ash proposes a plan, it's reasonable to assume that the plan will result in you getting deaded.

[Teproc]

Just wondering anyone have any ideas for what questions I could ask as the oracle? I spent a decent amount of time thinking about it but couldn't really think of a question that would help us out. I'm wondering if you guys had some ideas.

"Is ash's plan going to kill us all?"

If you're on Ash's team and Ash proposes a plan, it's reasonable to assume that the plan will result in you getting deaded.

He said everyone would upgrade, I don't see where he lied, you're going to speccy heaven !

[Witherweaver]

Also, I don't think you got killed by three factions, Teproc.  ADK applied a Ninja mod to the Others' factional kill.  Also, my ability should have prevented you getting shot, because it prevents gun flavor abilities from working.  I'm still not sure why you had a bullet wound, though.

[Witherweaver]

Oh and also, some criticism on me hammering Reinoe.. I don't really disagree, it wasn't a pro-town thing to do.  But I legitimately thought the game would be better if he wasn't in it, so I was willing to compromise our Day 1 (possibly play with a handicap of one less town) in order to have a better game over all.  I mean, the guy already caused TA to quit, and he was continuing to be a derisive jerk even when people pointed things out to him.

[faust]

faust Would you share what the dreaming god powers were going to be, and under what circumstances Jacob would lose control of the Island?

Sure thing.

Dreaming God Powers:
Jacob will get to know what the power he chose does at the end of twilight. Any PMs, flavor texts or information for all players will also be given out then.

1. Leave the Island
Information for Jacob: Other players will have the option to give up all their night actions and instead Commute. If they do, they will be treestumped the following day.
PM for non-MiB-aligned players: In the middle of the night, you wake up and realize there's someone standing in your tent. The moonlight outside is bright enough for you to see the silhouette. Terrified, you realize it's [dead player's name]. He turns towards you and starts to speak: "This place is dangerous. I have come to offer you a way to leave. If you want to go, get on a boat and follow a compass bearing of 325°. If you do that exactly, you will be able to get away." You open your mouth to ask something, but after you blink, [dead player's name]'s black silhouette is gone.
Only tonight, you have the option to leave the island. If you do, you will commute this night: You will forfeit all night actions this night and all night actions targeting you will fail. You will also be treestumped the following day only, meaning you will be unable to vote and unable to be voted for.
If you wish to leave the island, please send a PM by the night action deadline.


2. The Candidate
Information for Jacob: Tongiht, you must target one player. A Daychat "Cave" QT will be opened for you and that player to talk in for the rest of the game. Your win condition changes to: You or the player you targeted must still be alive at the end of the game. If you die, the chosen player will inherit the remaining Dreaming God powers and MiB Immunity. If you choose an MiB-aligned player for this, the power fails and you will die.
PM for the target: Jacob has chosen you as his Candidate! You can talk to Jacob here for the rest of the game: [QT link]
Mod clarification: This targeting counts as "recruiting" in the night action resolution.

3. Uncork the Island
Information for Jacob: The island has been uncorked! You can feel the protection that it gives fade. The coming 24 hours will be difficult...
Mod clarification: This nullifies the following powers: Jacob's MiB immunity, Claire's 1-shot Deathproof, Hurley's Loved-ness, Sayid's 1-shot Lynchproof, Richard's Deathproof (including the Switch!)

4. Temple Springs
Information for Jacob: By your orders, [lynched player's name] will be brought to the Temple. This is an extreme measure, but you hope to be able to restore him the way he was.
PM for the Lynchee: As the bullet pierces your chest, you feel the life leaving your body. Is this the end...?
Public information at Day start: [Player name] has been brought back to life!
Mod clarification: Only flip the lynched player's flavor name, everything else should be redacted. If there is no lynch that day, the power will remain without effect.

5. Cabin Fever
Information for Jacob: Every other player will be told that they may send a 400 character or less message that will be sent to you in addition to whatever power(s) they would normally use that night, but not if they are pushing the button. They will not get to know your identity.
PM for the players: As you make your way through the jungle that night, you suddenly find an old wooden cabin. Has this been here before? At the door stands a man in a suit, with grey hair. Apparently he wants to talk to you.
Tonight, you may send in a message containing 400 or less characters. You are promised that this message will be delivered to Jacob. You may not send in a message if you choose to push the button.

6. Supply Drop
Information for Jacob: That Dharma supply chain is still working. After a couple of days on the island, the survivors are low on basically everything. Flying in a Dharma package should help them get along.
Mod clarification: This applies to Charlie, Sayid, Kate (gets another ignition), Claire (both Deathproof and PCO, NOT the UB), Jin (regains all original powers), Locke, Sun (gets one of each herb she doesn't have)

7. Spread the Ashes
Information for Jacob: The ashes have been spread! The Man in Black will not be able to cross the line and harm any players on the other side of the ashes.
Public information: Ashes have been spread! On one side of the ashes, there are [off-wagon players], while the rest remain on the opposite side.
Mod clarification: The players are divided into two groups: those who were on wagon and those who were off wagon. That night, the MiB can only target players on their side. Who is on which side with an accompanying "ashes surround" will be posted along with the lynched player's alignment flip (or lack their of) at the end of the day. It will also be told that "MiB aligned players can only target players on their side of the ashes".

8. Move the Island
Public information: The Island is skipping! All actions performed on the current night will resolve on Night 1 (Night 2 if this is chosen N1) instead. At the end of this night, Night 1 will be reevaluated according to the newly taken actions. All players will still count as taking their action during the current night. It is not possible for any player to return from the dead this way.

9. Voices of the Dead
Information for Jacob: All dead players may send a 300 character message to a player of their choice. The Mods reserve the right to redact these messages in whichever way they see fit. To prevent confusion, the actions cannot be Redirected, Investigated, or Blocked.
PM for the dead: Whispers, whispers in the jungle... maybe the living can hear you? It's worth a try.
You may send in a message containing 300 character or less the the mods. This message will be delivered to a living player of your choice. The mods reserve the right to redact the message in whichever way they see fit. You will be informed about any redactions.

10. To the Lighthouse
Public information: Each player may send in a list of player names (the list may be empty). You will be told "True" at the end of the night if all players on the list and no players not on the list targeted you this night and "False" otherwise.

Jacob jhas power was just a fancy way of saying Jacob is still alive.

[pacovf]

8. Move the Island
Public information: The Island is skipping! All actions performed on the current night will resolve on Night 1 (Night 2 if this is chosen N1) instead. At the end of this night, Night 1 will be reevaluated according to the newly taken actions. All players will still count as taking their action during the current night. It is not possible for any player to return from the dead this way.

Waaaaaaaa...?

[chairs]

8. Move the Island
Public information: The Island is skipping! All actions performed on the current night will resolve on Night 1 (Night 2 if this is chosen N1) instead. At the end of this night, Night 1 will be reevaluated according to the newly taken actions. All players will still count as taking their action during the current night. It is not possible for any player to return from the dead this way.

Waaaaaaaa...?

It's not the first time we've had crazy cross-Night activities.

[Robz888]

Oh and also, some criticism on me hammering Reinoe.. I don't really disagree, it wasn't a pro-town thing to do.  But I legitimately thought the game would be better if he wasn't in it, so I was willing to compromise our Day 1 (possibly play with a handicap of one less town) in order to have a better game over all.  I mean, the guy already caused TA to quit, and he was continuing to be a derisive jerk even when people pointed things out to him.

You were right on, WW. Nothing wrong with that.

[2.71828.....]

What?  chairs primed me?  Good thing I was 1-shot deathproof.

But really.  This setup and the roles and everything about it was amazing.  I was really excited about my SK role, especially possessing a player and performing their actions once they died.

[silverspawn]

What?  chairs primed me?  Good thing I was 1-shot deathproof.

But really.  This setup and the roles and everything about it was amazing.  I was really excited about my SK role, especially possessing a player and performing their actions once they died.

you also got SK in guilds, didn't you? Maybe this starts a trend.

[2.71828.....]

What?  chairs primed me?  Good thing I was 1-shot deathproof.

But really.  This setup and the roles and everything about it was amazing.  I was really excited about my SK role, especially possessing a player and performing their actions once they died.

you also got SK in guilds, didn't you? Maybe this starts a trend.

yeah.  I was playing this one much better than I did in guilds though.  That first time as SK I just went crazy.

[Witherweaver]

Fun fact, Reinoe did not actually /pledge:

I accept the pledge.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Fun fact, Reinoe did not actually /pledge:

I accept the pledge.

Damn. You're right. With what ended up happening, I can't help but see that as intentional.

[Google]

Hello.  I am reinoe.  I would like to apologize for my conduct during the “Lost Mafia Game”.

I’m posting from a public library now while I was in the process of checking out Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.  As you are aware I engaged in less than proper behavior for a game of mafia.  I didn’t do this for giggles and I didn’t do it for no reason.   Here’s what happened…

Half-way through the second day of the game I was informed that I had lost my voting privileges.  I was notified via the Neighborhood Quicktopic.  I immediately asked the mod to delete the message and either send it to me via PM or to make a public announcement in the game thread.  The reason for this is because the mod was giving public information to an individuals in private.
Either everyone should know that I had lost my voting privilege or nobody but myself should know.  I asked several times for the mod to fix this.  However my requests were ignored until I began cc’ing the co-mod about making the correction.
When the mod did finally respond he kept mentioning that I was “attempting to ruin the game for everyone” and would not acknowledge the issue I was clearly pointing out him.  Now from my perspective this was patently false.  Even though my play was incredibly abrasive and far beyond the norms of Dominion strategy , this is actually not exceptionally different from how I often play on mafiascum.  I am by no means saying it was appropriate.  But I was not attempting to ruin everything for everyone. 
I insisted that I wanted the mod to fix the issue but the mod kept talking saying I was trying to “ruin the game for everyone”.  Finally I told the mod that he should stop lying and if he didn’t fix the issue I would show him what “attempting to ruin the game looks like”.  The mod said the error didn’t matter, that I shouldn’t be trying to ruin the game for everyone, and  that he would talk to me after the game.  Since the mod had been ignoring me whenever I didn’t cc the co-mod I felt that he was just messing with me.

Since the mod is also an administrator I felt like I had no good options.  So I made a copy/paste of the entire SCUM QT and sent it to everyone.  A mod error on mafiascum is treated very differently than it is on dominionstrategy.
I’m not saying what I did was right.  I’m not asking for your forgiveness.  I just want everyone to know that the circumstances that led up to what happened were incredibly unusual and isn’t normal for me or for members of the mafiascum community.

Also I would like to issue a special apology to silverspawn.  It’s true that I came to dominion strategy because of your invite.  And I’m particularly saddened that you feel guilty about what happened because of my actions.

[Witherweaver]

Faust announced in the entire thread, publically, that your voting privileges were removed for that day.

[Google]

Faust announced in the entire thread, publically, that your voting privileges were removed for that day.

I did not see it.  Now I feel like even more of an ass.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.5

silverspawn (1): Hydrad
2.71828... (1): Witherweaver
XerxesPraelor (6): XerxesPraelor, Beyond Awesome, xeiron, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver (1): chairs
xeiron (3): 2.71828..., Twistedarcher, silverspawn
chairs (1): Teproc

Not Voting (2): ashersky, xxpittip

With 16 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends January 12 at 11 am forum time.

reinoe has been rendered voteless for today only as a result of violating the Civility Pledge. Consequently, the number of votes needed to lynch has been lowered to 8.

[Robz888]

I'm not very appreciative of this so-called, highly qualified "apology," which is wrong on point of fact. PPE: I see this has been pointed out.

In addition, he agreed to the Civility Pledge, and to the rules of the game, which obviously prohibit the actions he took, even in the event that the game mod was actually in the wrong. We grant wide latitude to our mods, especially in RMM games. This is evident in the rules.

[Twistedarcher]

The vote count announcement was three minutes after the qt post.

[XerxesPraelor]

I forgive you.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

+1 for having a generous heart, XP.