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[LaLight]

yeah, but what's really important is that I do not need an item.

[MiX]

yeah, but what's really important is that I do not need an item.

What? Then why would you trade? What's the benefit of a trade if you don't need anything?

I'd like for both you and faust to explain this.

[scolapasta]

I think he explained his reasoning in #945.

The first does make sense, in that it gives the recipient the chance to reject it.

A couple of questions and maybe this was already explained:
• do you know what you would get in exchange when you make the offer?
• does the person you offer the trade form know it's coming from you?

[MiX]

I think he explained his reasoning in #945.

The first does make sense, in that it gives the recipient the chance to reject it.

A couple of questions and maybe this was already explained:
• do you know what you would get in exchange when you make the offer?
• does the person you offer the trade form know it's coming from you?

It's not that I don't understand why you would trade. It's that I don't understand why you can trade if you don't need anything. It doesn't make any sense game design-wise to have a trader that gains nothing by trading.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think he explained his reasoning in #945.

The first does make sense, in that it gives the recipient the chance to reject it.

A couple of questions and maybe this was already explained:
• do you know what you would get in exchange when you make the offer?
• does the person you offer the trade form know it's coming from you?

I was not told who the trade was from, but I was told the item

[faust]

yeah, but what's really important is that I do not need an item.

What? Then why would you trade? What's the benefit of a trade if you don't need anything?

I'd like for both you and faust to explain this.

Well I thought it was very unlikely to have a pro-town use.

But then I thought it was likely that you'd already get your correct item, and my offer was to make sure there was no miscommunication between you as my item also fits something you said. I could have given it to you, but you weren't too likely to need it and you were plenty likely to be nightkilled, and I didn't want the item to be lost if I give it to you and you don't even need it.

[faust]

As to why this role is in the game, I cannot say. I first thought I simply wouldn't use it once I realized I could just give items. I then found a situation where using it seemed beneficial, but only very marginally so.

I think of this as basically another VT variant. It's not like scum could use the role to their advantage much more than town could.

[faust]

Maybe this game just has a bunch of borderline useless roles. I mean Awaclus was a Compulsive Fruit Vendor.

[MiX]

Maybe this game just has a bunch of borderline useless roles. I mean Awaclus was a Compulsive Fruit Vendor.

Compulsive Fruit Vendor's great! It's also better than the VT variant.

[LaLight]

I think he explained his reasoning in #945.

The first does make sense, in that it gives the recipient the chance to reject it.

A couple of questions and maybe this was already explained:
• do you know what you would get in exchange when you make the offer?
• does the person you offer the trade form know it's coming from you?

no and no

[skip wooznum]

I don't really see galz as scum unless mail-mi is scum. Truth is, I can't really see anybody as scum if mail-mi is town. Maybe joth? Maybe maybe faust? What's giving me pause is that mail-mi got thieved last night, suggesting he's town. But that could be a setup. If it's a lie, eevee would have to be in on it. And it wouldn't make any sense for scum!eevee to have the rope, as that would make me a totally useless as a pr.  And if eevee was lying about having the rope at all, someone would counter. But a setup (by that I mean that scum team targeted scum!mail-mi to give him towncred) also seems a little extraordinary. Adk suggested a town!thief, but that seems mostly negative utility, so I doubt it exists.

This is where my head is at. If it's a bit confusing, it's because I'm confused.

That seems to be about the same as my thought process, except I don't understand the bold.

I just mean if it's town v town, I have a hard time seeing the scum narrative of most players. I doubt that scum would push one player hard/ totally commit to one side in that situation so that would rule out adk, LaLight, mix, Joseph, sudgy, and pasta. Galz and eevee more or less totally dismissed the whole thing. And didds also seemed unwilling to think either of us were scum.

Obviously this is not conclusive, I'm just saying the scum narrative is hard for me to see.

[LaLight]

well, I mean people can agree or disagree with taking my item, no one  yet claimed they need it, so i will try to give it to some people, but i won't end up in a situation when I would give an item to Didds which she doesn't need

[skip wooznum]

I don't really see galz as scum unless mail-mi is scum. Truth is, I can't really see anybody as scum if mail-mi is town. Maybe joth? Maybe maybe faust? What's giving me pause is that mail-mi got thieved last night, suggesting he's town. But that could be a setup. If it's a lie, eevee would have to be in on it. And it wouldn't make any sense for scum!eevee to have the rope, as that would make me a totally useless as a pr.  And if eevee was lying about having the rope at all, someone would counter. But a setup (by that I mean that scum team targeted scum!mail-mi to give him towncred) also seems a little extraordinary. Adk suggested a town!thief, but that seems mostly negative utility, so I doubt it exists.

This is where my head is at. If it's a bit confusing, it's because I'm confused.

I thought Eevee was robbed? Couldn't Eevee just have been robbed and just happen to have the rope? Was it public knowledge that Eevee had the rope and intended to give it to mail-mi?

It is possible eevee was targeted. It's just that as far as I can tell, eevee made no mention of having any item at all, let alone the rope. (Let me know if I missed something, eevee.) I would think that some of the people who claimed to have items would be targeted first. Like me, galz, LaLight, and maybe others I don't remember. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm very self-centered.

MiX is probably the most interesting player in the panic lynch because he was so sure Awaclus was town and so against it. Theoretically, it should give him town points but I'm never that sure as town.

Honorable mention goes to MiX, whose vehement opposition to the wagon reads slightly  scummy in retrospect.

This is a non-read. I'm flattered that you're forced to talk about me without having anything to say, but what's your take?

Also I see a lack of a vote after such an analysis, Who is scummiest?

Galzria, who I'm already voting for. Convenient.

Are you saying you don't want to Lynch in mail-mi/skip today? Because earlier you expressed a willingness to vote for skip

Where did you get that from?

Does that mean you could pass both to people who you think are town and selectively reveal the message?

I suppose I could. Not sure that that has a ton of utility though.

I could do a skip lynch. I'm not like dead sure he's scum, but he has certainly been scummy and people made some convincing cases yesterday.

I was misremembering the enthusiasticness of this post

[Joseph2302]

well, I mean people can agree or disagree with taking my item, no one  yet claimed they need it, so i will try to give it to some people, but i won't end up in a situation when I would give an item to Didds which she doesn't need

Might have missed it, but what was your item?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Adk suggested a town!thief, but that seems mostly negative utility, so I doubt it exists.

I mean there's evidently two thiefs. Do you think they're both scum? Or that someone is lying about being stolen from?

[MiX]

There's no reason for town to steal. The pro-town move is just to give the item back to whoever needs it anyway.

[WestCoastDidds]

well, I mean people can agree or disagree with taking my item, no one  yet claimed they need it, so i will try to give it to some people, but i won't end up in a situation when I would give an item to Didds which she doesn't need

Might have missed it, but what was your item?

He didn’t say

Vote: Joseph

[MiX]

well, I mean people can agree or disagree with taking my item, no one  yet claimed they need it, so i will try to give it to some people, but i won't end up in a situation when I would give an item to Didds which she doesn't need

Might have missed it, but what was your item?

He didn’t say

Vote: Joseph

Hold on, Joseph, do you think you might need LL's item?

[A Drowned Kernel]

It seems like we have two 1v1's here, and I sincerely doubt that all of the duplicate roles are town/town. We need to lynch in these players today

My preference would be mail-mi over skip and faust over lalight

[A Drowned Kernel]

There's no reason for town to steal. The pro-town move is just to give the item back to whoever needs it anyway.

Do you not think scum needs/can use items?

[MiX]

There's no reason for town to steal. The pro-town move is just to give the item back to whoever needs it anyway.

Do you not think scum needs/can use items?

I think stopping scum from getting items is futile and random and will steal items from town more often than not.

At this point I would like a town thief massclaim, but it's technically better tomorrow.

It seems like we have two 1v1's here, and I sincerely doubt that all of the duplicate roles are town/town. We need to lynch in these players today

My preference would be mail-mi over skip and faust over lalight

My current read is neither pawnbroker's town. It just makes no sense at all. It sounds like a role for way more items than there seem to be.

[scolapasta]

Could pawnbrokers be something like Survivors? Then maybe it makes sense for them to want to trade and not just give, so they could play both sides.

[mail-mi]

@faust and @LaLight, do either of you get a benefit for trading items?

My presumption is that there are items that no one needs and have some sort of benefit for the user. Remember that awaclus' item made the user hated, so maybe there's other items like that (except beneficial) out there.

[A Drowned Kernel]

There's no reason for town to steal. The pro-town move is just to give the item back to whoever needs it anyway.

Do you not think scum needs/can use items?

I think stopping scum from getting items is futile and random and will steal items from town more often than not.

At this point I would like a town thief massclaim, but it's technically better tomorrow.

There's lots of precedence for town roles that are negative utility if they hit town. Roleblocker, vigilante...