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Author Topic: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Game Over, Scum and Treasure Hunter win!)  (Read 198226 times)

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Joseph2302

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #900 on: May 04, 2020, 11:16:50 am »

Vote: LL
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Eevee

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #901 on: May 04, 2020, 11:19:10 am »

This makes me believe that Didds is town too, stealing items seeming like a scum power. Could be different scum factions of course, so not definitive but pretty strong evidence.
Well Didds could easily be lying, so "strong evidence" seems like a bit of a stretch, it's just Didds' word that something vaguely towny happened to her.
Not the type of lie I think they'd make, and the way they worded it makes me believe they at least new the way Glooble would word the action. I'd say I'm 80-90% certain that Didds isn't lying about having been swiped mid-give.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #902 on: May 04, 2020, 11:21:37 am »

Vote: mail-mi

Looks around

Vote: small-mi

I’m so delighted at this!
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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

Eevee

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #903 on: May 04, 2020, 11:23:36 am »

Well well well.

Vote: mail-mi

Can you explain this vote more than you have?
Looking at the end of the Day, skip's reaction to the double role claim seemed genuine. mail-mi just sort of dropped off the skip wagon and joined on Awaclus for no apparent reason, and I don't see why town!mail-mi would do that. From skip's point of view, mail-mi called out the exact role that he had, and that made him reconsider. From mail-mi's point of view, skip just parroted his claim and there was no reason to change his read.

Also the bit where skip thought he was lynched and scrambled to get his item where it needed to go seemed genuine, so I'm not too interested in that lynch.
I think you are throwing suspicion towards mail-mi for playing differently than you would, and I think you should know better.

I could go for a faust lynch. I think he tends to be the voice of reason, and I'm disagreeing with most of his reads here.
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MiX

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #904 on: May 04, 2020, 11:25:12 am »

Well well well.

Vote: mail-mi

Can you explain this vote more than you have?
Looking at the end of the Day, skip's reaction to the double role claim seemed genuine. mail-mi just sort of dropped off the skip wagon and joined on Awaclus for no apparent reason, and I don't see why town!mail-mi would do that. From skip's point of view, mail-mi called out the exact role that he had, and that made him reconsider. From mail-mi's point of view, skip just parroted his claim and there was no reason to change his read.

Also the bit where skip thought he was lynched and scrambled to get his item where it needed to go seemed genuine, so I'm not too interested in that lynch.
I think you are throwing suspicion towards mail-mi for playing differently than you would, and I think you should know better.

I could go for a faust lynch. I think he tends to be the voice of reason, and I'm disagreeing with most of his reads here.

I kinda want to, but meh. Wasn't he the one with your role? Are you scumreading him also for that?
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Eevee

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #905 on: May 04, 2020, 11:27:51 am »

I haven't claimed my role, and I don't believe faust has either. Have I somehow skipped a page, or what are you talking about?  ;D
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jotheonah

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #906 on: May 04, 2020, 11:28:02 am »

So, I would be very surprised if this wagon were scum-free. But I'd be surprised if there were a ton of scum on it. This feels like a panic lynch town did to itself.

I missed all the excitement because I had a work meeting at 11.

MiX is probably the most interesting player in the panic lynch because he was so sure Awaclus was town and so against it. Theoretically, it should give him town points but I'm never that sure as town.

Let me go through the votes in order.

Eevee -- IMO, not that scummy. I don't think scum starts an alternate wagon here. If mail-mi skip was town v town they definitely don't. If one of mail-mi skip was scum, I still think probably scum either stays on the town one to try to push it through or stays on the scum one because they've made peace with a bus. Scum has no incentive to play the 'come on, we need a lynch' card, since no lynch is ok for them and mislynch is good. Maybe scum!Eevee does this because he's betting town won't get their act togetehr and they'll end up with a no lynch, but I just find it unlikely.

WCD -- This is a pivotal vote, IMO. It starts a string of what-the-hell might-as-well votes. I think similar reasoning applies to the Eevee vote -- I'm not sure scum wants to derail a perfectly fine thing they've got going with the mail-mi/skip stand-off, and Didds has to know this vote has a decent chance of starting a real wagon.

skip & mail-mi -- these votes are pure opportunistic me-too-ism. I think this is where you most likely find scum on this wagon, though it could also be town. But the fact that we're looking at the two people who were likely to get lynched if this wagon doesn't work out, I don't think we can derive much from their alignment. Frankly, this is the right move for them regardless of alignment, especially if they are starting to doubt each other's scumminess.

Galzria -- Galz is interesting to me because of how much qualifying and dithering he does before putting down a vote. MiX says "I won't vote Awaclus" and doesn't. Everyone else just sort of votes Awaclus with minimal commentary. Only Galz and sudgy are sort of performatively reluctant about the vote. This is a scum tell, but frankly one I would expect Galz to be wise to. Still, everyone has bad days and it was a crazy, panicked hour so I can believe some poor scum play from Galz.

LaLight 1 -- see skip & mail-mi above, except LaLight doesn't have the "him or me" excuse. So I would call this a scummy vote. I think scum has very little downside in moving at this point.

faust, sudgy, LaLight 2 -- these are pure panic votes. they are 'we waited as long as we could, now we need to vote here or we won't have a lynch'. As such, they're not that telling. Especially faust, being the veteran player that he is, makes this vote almost as a reflex action, regardless of alignment. LaLight is just revoting. As for sudgy, well, I think there's a case for putting him in the same boat as Galz. He is the only one who sort of asks "why Awaclus?" then he doesn't get a satisfying answer, then he votes at the last possible second. It's a little less overt then Galz's performative reluctance but it accomplishes the same thing.

So all in all, here's my wagon analysis scum to chum: Galzria, sudgy, LaLight, mail-mi, skip, faust, Eevee, WCD

Honorable mention goes to MiX, whose vehement opposition to the wagon reads slightly  scummy in retrospect.
One might FoS me for being conspicuously absent for all the excitement, and I would accept that as valid. I haven't really looked hard at ADK, Joseph, and scala's actions in the last hour of the day or lack thereof -- there might be something there for someone who wants to investigate on their own. Certainly nothing stood out to me. You could make the case that ADK was positioning himself similar to Galz and sudgy, but didn't need to actually vote so he didn't. But the last-minute-ness of the votes kind of belies that -- by the time he knew he didn't need to vote it was probably too late to do so. So ADK comes out of this towny in my book.
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Eevee

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #907 on: May 04, 2020, 11:28:19 am »

Are you maybe talking about something discussed in the scum QT?
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faust

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #908 on: May 04, 2020, 11:30:29 am »

I think you are throwing suspicion towards mail-mi for playing differently than you would, and I think you should know better.
I don't think I am? Not sure where this is coming from. I'm just pointing out that mail-mi was very happy to take an opportunity to get a lynch outside of the 1v1, and that is a thing that any scum would want in his position.
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faust

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #909 on: May 04, 2020, 11:30:56 am »

I haven't claimed my role, and I don't believe faust has either. Have I somehow skipped a page, or what are you talking about?  ;D
I think he's confusing you with LaLight. And I have claimed my role by the way.
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jotheonah

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #910 on: May 04, 2020, 11:31:03 am »


Also the bit where skip thought he was lynched and scrambled to get his item where it needed to go seemed genuine, so I'm not too interested in that lynch.

That's true. I momentarily forgot that Skip gave me the notebook. Dunno why scum!skip would do that.

Doesn't he kinda have to?

NaH. He could claim it was stolen or he was roleblocked or that he didn't trust me. He could have asked ME for the codebook. Lots of options.
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mail-mi

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #911 on: May 04, 2020, 11:31:50 am »

Hey I just started a new job, so my availability is gonna be lower. Just letting y'all know
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faust

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #912 on: May 04, 2020, 11:32:50 am »

So, I would be very surprised if this wagon were scum-free. But I'd be surprised if there were a ton of scum on it.
No kidding, you would be surprised if the statistically least likely things had happened. Quite the hot take.
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jotheonah

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #913 on: May 04, 2020, 11:37:43 am »

So, I would be very surprised if this wagon were scum-free. But I'd be surprised if there were a ton of scum on it.
No kidding, you would be surprised if the statistically least likely things had happened. Quite the hot take.

Ok Mr. Smarmypants. All I'm saying is some wagons are very scummy -- i.e. they seem likely to have been started and encouraged by scum. Others are towny -- they seem likely to have been started or encouraged primarily by town. This seems like a towny wagon, though one with a lot of opportunities toward the end for scum to jump on fairly safely to get a town lynch, which is slightly preferable to a no lynch for them. So my read on the wagon is that we largely did it to ourselves, but a scum or two probably hopped on to help us along.

It may or may not be a hot take, but it doesn't seem like anyone else is making an effort to analyze the wagon AT ALL so I thought I would start with the basics.
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faust

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #914 on: May 04, 2020, 11:40:56 am »

It may or may not be a hot take, but it doesn't seem like anyone else is making an effort to analyze the wagon AT ALL so I thought I would start with the basics.
Quite the assumptions there. Just because I don't post a wall of mostly inconsequential observations doesn't mean I didn't do my homework.

(This phrase has possibly too many negations in it. Sorry about that.)
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MiX

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #915 on: May 04, 2020, 11:48:11 am »


Also the bit where skip thought he was lynched and scrambled to get his item where it needed to go seemed genuine, so I'm not too interested in that lynch.

That's true. I momentarily forgot that Skip gave me the notebook. Dunno why scum!skip would do that.

Doesn't he kinda have to?

NaH. He could claim it was stolen or he was roleblocked or that he didn't trust me. He could have asked ME for the codebook. Lots of options.

Why didn't you give him the codebook?
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jotheonah

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #916 on: May 04, 2020, 11:50:20 am »


Also the bit where skip thought he was lynched and scrambled to get his item where it needed to go seemed genuine, so I'm not too interested in that lynch.

That's true. I momentarily forgot that Skip gave me the notebook. Dunno why scum!skip would do that.

Doesn't he kinda have to?

NaH. He could claim it was stolen or he was roleblocked or that he didn't trust me. He could have asked ME for the codebook. Lots of options.

Why didn't you give him the codebook?

Because I'd already asked him for the notebook. We woulda been in a real Gift of the Magi situation if I've given him the codebook.
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jotheonah

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #917 on: May 04, 2020, 11:51:02 am »

Also because given the choice between knowing what was in the notebook and skip knowing what was in the notebook, I chose giving the info to myself, since I know I'm town.
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MiX

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #918 on: May 04, 2020, 11:51:48 am »


Also the bit where skip thought he was lynched and scrambled to get his item where it needed to go seemed genuine, so I'm not too interested in that lynch.

That's true. I momentarily forgot that Skip gave me the notebook. Dunno why scum!skip would do that.

Doesn't he kinda have to?

NaH. He could claim it was stolen or he was roleblocked or that he didn't trust me. He could have asked ME for the codebook. Lots of options.

Why didn't you give him the codebook?

Because I'd already asked him for the notebook. We woulda been in a real Gift of the Magi situation if I've given him the codebook.

You're dodging the question.

Why would he claim to have the notebook instead of him claiming to need the codebook?

I haven't claimed my role, and I don't believe faust has either. Have I somehow skipped a page, or what are you talking about?  ;D
I think he's confusing you with LaLight. And I have claimed my role by the way.

I did, yes. Thanks.
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MiX

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #919 on: May 04, 2020, 11:53:55 am »

Also joth, was the you needed both the codebook and notebook to decode correct? Are both items that can be passed? Could anyone decode if they had both items? or just you?

Is this at all tied in with a PR or will this just provide us with some info?

My assumption based on the info I have is that anyone with both could have decoded the message.

How many items did you start with?

This question. Can you answer it?
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MiX

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #920 on: May 04, 2020, 11:56:32 am »

I'm very self-centered.

MiX is probably the most interesting player in the panic lynch because he was so sure Awaclus was town and so against it. Theoretically, it should give him town points but I'm never that sure as town.

Honorable mention goes to MiX, whose vehement opposition to the wagon reads slightly  scummy in retrospect.

This is a non-read. I'm flattered that you're forced to talk about me without having anything to say, but what's your take?

Also I see a lack of a vote after such an analysis, Who is scummiest?
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jotheonah

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #921 on: May 04, 2020, 12:04:32 pm »

I'm very self-centered.

MiX is probably the most interesting player in the panic lynch because he was so sure Awaclus was town and so against it. Theoretically, it should give him town points but I'm never that sure as town.

Honorable mention goes to MiX, whose vehement opposition to the wagon reads slightly  scummy in retrospect.

This is a non-read. I'm flattered that you're forced to talk about me without having anything to say, but what's your take?

Also I see a lack of a vote after such an analysis, Who is scummiest?

Galzria, who I'm already voting for. Convenient.
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MiX

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #922 on: May 04, 2020, 12:04:53 pm »

Vote: Galzria

Where did your money end up?
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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #923 on: May 04, 2020, 12:12:23 pm »

To answer other MiX questions: I still think you're townie, but your certainty around the badness of the Awaclus wagon reads scummy. Less so because it's you and you often act sure about things when you aren't, I've learned.

Yes, I started with another item as well. Not likely to answer questions about what it was or whether I still have it. Suffice it to say it's unrelated to the codebook/notebook situation.

I wasn't told explicitly that I needed anything. I assume skip wasn't either. During the end of the day panic, when skip revealed the existence of the notebook, I figured it wouldn't hurt to outright ask him for it. Also, I think skip only claimed to have the notebook because he was behind on reading the thread and thought he was the one who'd been lynched. But you'd have to ask him.

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MiX

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Re: BM30: MacGuffin Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #924 on: May 04, 2020, 12:19:44 pm »

To answer other MiX questions: I still think you're townie, but your certainty around the badness of the Awaclus wagon reads scummy. Less so because it's you and you often act sure about things when you aren't, I've learned.

Yes, I started with another item as well. Not likely to answer questions about what it was or whether I still have it. Suffice it to say it's unrelated to the codebook/notebook situation.

I wasn't told explicitly that I needed anything. I assume skip wasn't either. During the end of the day panic, when skip revealed the existence of the notebook, I figured it wouldn't hurt to outright ask him for it. Also, I think skip only claimed to have the notebook because he was behind on reading the thread and thought he was the one who'd been lynched. But you'd have to ask him.

How did you know you needed the notebook then?
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