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[The_Wine_Merchant]

NOT PENNY'S BOAT

[The_Wine_Merchant]

2.7 is already feeling super town to me.

I am draft position #7.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

What is it with people and not reading set-ups? Or pretending not to have read them.

vote: LaLight

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: Gkrieg

FOS everyone who's claiming draft orders without a substantial discussion beforehand.

Here is your substantial discussion

I agree that we should all claim draft position.

I was #12

I was caught as SK in M100 due to draft position claiming. I don't know if that will work here (doubtful) but I am convinced claiming draft position doesn't hurt town

Vote: O

I don't disagree with anything in there. But scum want to claim before we can talk on an order to claim draft.

Trying to create arbitrary rules on how we claim based on absolutely zero known information. Scum delay tactics

Vote: O

Except I don't agree with 2.7 here.

[Witherweaver]

Vote: Gkrieg

FOS everyone who's claiming draft orders without a substantial discussion beforehand.

Here is your substantial discussion

I agree that we should all claim draft position.

I was #12

I was caught as SK in M100 due to draft position claiming. I don't know if that will work here (doubtful) but I am convinced claiming draft position doesn't hurt town

Vote: O

I don't disagree with anything in there. But scum want to claim before we can talk on an order to claim draft.

Trying to create arbitrary rules on how we claim based on absolutely zero known information. Scum delay tactics

Vote: O

Except I don't agree with 2.7 here.

So why did you claim?

[Teproc]

The argument for not lynching candidates is pretty simple: it makes winning harder for one of the scum factions. The problem is that we don't know how it affects town and mafia's wincon, because we don't know how many mafia are Candidates.

Also, we do not want Candidates to claim, clearly. Which means this would only come up if a Candidate got to L1 and had to claim: do we refrain from lynching them just on the strength of that ? Maybe on day 1.

Also, ash & everyone else : please do read the setup. Candidates are assigned at full random.

PPE: lots

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So why did you claim?

Sorry. I don't agree with him that O's opinion makes O scummy and thus should be voted. I think O's opinion is pretty null in terms of alignment.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

The argument for not lynching candidates is pretty simple: it makes winning harder for one of the scum factions. The problem is that we don't know how it affects town and mafia's wincon, because we don't know how many mafia are Candidates.

Also, we do not want Candidates to claim, clearly. Which means this would only come up if a Candidate got to L1 and had to claim: do we refrain from lynching them just on the strength of that ? Maybe on day 1.

Also, ash & everyone else : please do read the setup. Candidates are assigned at full random.

PPE: lots

Candidates could also expose themselves to tell us if someone falsely claimed being a Candidate. And it wasn't full random. There's a PR that makes you a Candidate.

[Witherweaver]

So why did you claim?

Sorry. I don't agree with him that O's opinion makes O scummy and thus should be voted. I think O's opinion is pretty null in terms of alignment.

Okay, then, remove the "so" from the question and consider it restated.

[Teproc]

THinking about it more, I guess draft order claiming is debatable. It does force scum to claim the truth, essentially, which doesn't let them shuffle their orders around as they please, which they can do later in the game. It does make it significantly easier for them to find the strong PRs, but, well, there are town PRs that benefit from there being obvious NKs I suppose.

I'm not convinced.

PPE: I meant fully random as far as alignment is concerned.

[Witherweaver]

The argument for not lynching candidates is pretty simple: it makes winning harder for one of the scum factions. The problem is that we don't know how it affects town and mafia's wincon, because we don't know how many mafia are Candidates.

Also, we do not want Candidates to claim, clearly. Which means this would only come up if a Candidate got to L1 and had to claim: do we refrain from lynching them just on the strength of that ? Maybe on day 1.

Also, ash & everyone else : please do read the setup. Candidates are assigned at full random.

PPE: lots

Teproc making Senseroc.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

So why did you claim?

Sorry. I don't agree with him that O's opinion makes O scummy and thus should be voted. I think O's opinion is pretty null in terms of alignment.

Okay, then, remove the "so" from the question and consider it restated.

I agree with 2.7 that claiming was what hurt him in M100 when he was the SK and has a good chance of hurting scum now.

There are other benefits and downsides on both sides that I think even out, but the being forced to claim now and live with what they claim, is what pushes it to the favorable side.

[Archetype]

I had a plan...

and then Robz broke it

Now I need to think about this.

This has to do with the SM moving up the chain with the LOST numbers, yes?

[SpaceAnemone]

Hi all! Just a reminder that I'm kind of VLA just now. Conference wifi is patchy, mobile data doesn't work in the lower floors of the convention centre, and my brain is full. Other than that, everything is great and interesting :-) Oh, and Eevee, I found a Tim Horton's, but they didn't do soya milk, so that scuppered my coffee-and-wifi plan before I got the mobile data going :-(

In game-relevant news, I'm in favour of mass-claims, and especially of clever claiming strategies. Robz's decree limits verifiable info for claims and stuff, which is sad because it's a nice threat to have in the bag. It probably advantages scum a bit, so I share faust's disappointment at the death of potential plans, and disagree with whoever says faust was scummy.

I actually agree with ash that not lynching candidates is a great plan. I think it's clear that the smoke monster doesn't have to be a candidate, though, so I'm pretty sure it's safer to keep our candidates un-announced. The Candidates thing is a neat mechanism to make a more-balanced-than-plain-SK third faction, but it doesn't really make our primary play any different because we still just have to find and lynch scums. I'm not saying we should disregard it completely, but I don't think it needs to be a big part of our strategy, especially because it's (almost completely) orthogonal to the role bidding stuff.

Wow, ppe 15 and counting... This is going to be hard to keep up with because I'm about to be afk for a while!

[Teproc]

Really hard to know how beneficial to scum order claiming is. Depending on how it went, especially in the first few slots - and especially if scum got beaten to stuff - it could help them a lot.

PPE: I don't know what you mean Arch, but don't forget that this is a dangerous line of discussion.

[Teproc]

Not a fan of the "no plan since the ruling happened" posts from you and faust.

Mafia is much more likely to get draft positions in the front of the draft, and the Smoke Monster essentially can't be in the last few positions in the draft.

Can you explain why you think this ?

[Archetype]

Really hard to know how beneficial to scum order claiming is. Depending on how it went, especially in the first few slots - and especially if scum got beaten to stuff - it could help them a lot.

PPE: I don't know what you mean Arch, but don't forget that this is a dangerous line of discussion.

I typed out an idea of how the system could be cheated a little, but yeah I'll just save it until after the game.

Townreading Teproc btw. This is going to be a lot of people to keep up with.

[Teproc]

Right, I suppose that's also what gkrieg's getting at ? That mafia could coordinate in beneficial ways that make them likely to be high in the draft ? I don't see how exactly... if you do, i'd suggest asking Robz if you can tell us what you mean, and do so if you can.

I definitely don't see why the SK couldn't be low though.

[ashersky]

I did read the setup posts, but honestly, too much text got a bit boring.  And I'm a guy who loves complicated setups myself.  But my setup posts are short.

Like, am I really supposed to remember everyone's win conditions? 

Reread the SM but, and I feel bad for the SM -- they have to kill 5 or 6 specific players of unknown power.  And they have to do it before mafia meets its win condition.  SM's NK helps mafia win, unless they kill mafia.  Rough.

How about we make a deal?  We can out one candidate per odd night in exchange for a directed NK.

[Teproc]

I guess I don't know how that plan works practically ? I guess the candidates are supposed to figure out among themselves who they want to out ? Don't like that.

[Robz888]

And now, a reminder about safety on the island.

This was Phil.



Phil did not follow proper safety protocols about avoiding pockets of electromagnetic energy. This is Phil now.



Don't be like Phil. Follow proper safety protocols! Namaste, and thank you.


Vote Count 1.1

ashersky (1): LaLight
gkrieg (1): O
O (1): 2.71828
LaLight (1): IDontPlayThisGame

Note Voting (13):  Galzria, gkrieg, Archetype, Teproc, Witherweaver, DatSwan, Eevee, Qvist, ashersky, faust, SpaceAnemone, The_Wine_Merchant, Jimmmmm

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, September 18th, at 3:00 PM. Namaste.

[Archetype]

I did read the setup posts, but honestly, too much text got a bit boring.  And I'm a guy who loves complicated setups myself.  But my setup posts are short.

Like, am I really supposed to remember everyone's win conditions? 

Reread the SM but, and I feel bad for the SM -- they have to kill 5 or 6 specific players of unknown power.  And they have to do it before mafia meets its win condition.  SM's NK helps mafia win, unless they kill mafia.  Rough.

How about we make a deal?  We can out one candidate per odd night in exchange for a directed NK.

I mean, the SM is arguably the most balanced SK I've seen in any game on here tbh. Don't like the candidate plan at all.

[ashersky]

Disagree.  SK is hard.  Sharing the scum wincon for awhile (whittle down town numbers) is one of the keys to success.  Here, it's literally "find these specific players and get them lynched/NK them" and you may or may not get your know them ahead of time.

Makes me think SM had to choose the role to be a candidate, right?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Disagree.  SK is hard.  Sharing the scum wincon for awhile (whittle down town numbers) is one of the keys to success.  Here, it's literally "find these specific players and get them lynched/NK them" and you may or may not get your know them ahead of time.

Makes me think SM had to choose the role to be a candidate, right?

That, Mother, or Double Shot Candidate Cop are the three that would make sense to me.

[Teproc]

I don't see that there's a huge upside in discussing what we think the SK went for. It's highly dependent on where they ended up in drafting order, so.

vote: laLight I think the "all PRs are IC" thing is too dumb to not be faked. Well, to put it more politely: I don't think LaLight, who is an experienced mod, would seriously believe Robz (also an experienced mod) would have a setup in which that was true. It probably occured to him reading the setup, and he figured he would post it for towncred, which scum is more actively seeking in general.