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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!  (Read 1784 times)

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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2021, 03:03:19 pm »
+4

You might wanna word it as something like "Exile it instead".

Replacing the gaining instead of adding something to it opens up a new can of worms. Trader was changed to avoid that for a reason.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2021, 02:19:31 am »
0

I think that card wordings should be simple and reflect how you actually play (I never considered the blue dog issue you referred to to be an actual issue). Nobody puts the card in their discard pile and the moves it onto their Exile mat, they directly put it there. So „Exile instead“ makes more sense than „ gain and then Exile“.

But it is a trivial difference as you rarely want the junk to be able to leave the Exile mat (what your „gain and Exile“ Version enables you to do). This brings us back to my initial point: with your version most folks would not even be aware that you could discard stuff from Exile because they would intuitively read the card, no matter how it is worded as „ah OK, I can directly put it on the mat“.

What matters is that the wording should be clearer because currently you can easily misread the card, as arowdok did, as „gain and Exile another copy from the Supply“.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 02:20:34 am by segura »
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2021, 12:14:50 pm »
0

Master
Action $7

Choose 2: +2 Cards; +2 Actions; +2 Buys; +$2; gain 2 Silvers or trash 2 cards from your hand.
The choices must be different.



I found this challenge harder than it first appears. It seems high powered concepts are more likely to have issues when you start thinking through the implications of them. I had a few ideas that I scrapped when trying to think them through. As a result I decided to go back to basics and go for a high powered member of the Pawn/Steward family.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2021, 01:17:39 pm »
+2

( ... )

i mean theres a middle ground too - "exile the gained card". no verbswapping, no ambiguity.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2021, 01:31:06 pm »
+2

I think that card wordings should be simple and reflect how you actually play (I never considered the blue dog issue you referred to to be an actual issue). Nobody puts the card in their discard pile and the moves it onto their Exile mat, they directly put it there. So „Exile instead“ makes more sense than „ gain and then Exile“.

But it is a trivial difference as you rarely want the junk to be able to leave the Exile mat (what your „gain and Exile“ Version enables you to do). This brings us back to my initial point: with your version most folks would not even be aware that you could discard stuff from Exile because they would intuitively read the card, no matter how it is worded as „ah OK, I can directly put it on the mat“.

What matters is that the wording should be clearer because currently you can easily misread the card, as arowdok did, as „gain and Exile another copy from the Supply“.

Border Wall uses the same wording as Gatekeeper. And I haven't seen people get confused about Gatekeeper or complain about its wording.

Also, with your logic, Watchtower should say "to instead either trash that card or put it onto your deck" and Replace should say "if you would've gained an Action or Treasure, instead put it onto your deck."
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 01:35:16 pm by Gubump »
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Firestix

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2021, 01:35:58 pm »
0

My Submission:
Quote from: Colossus
Colossus ($8+ Victory)
3VP

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. Add VP equal to the amount overpaid to the lowest numbered space without VP on your Colossus mat.
Quote from: Colossus Mat
Colossus Mat
When scoring, only count VP on spaces with a number equal to or less than the amount of Colossus cards in your deck.

  • There are only 8 Colossus cards in the supply with any amount of players.
  • Each player gets their own Colossus mat.

Do you ever just have, like, too much money? Why don't you just build a really big statue?

Basically, this card is overpay for additional VP with a high price point. To make it worth more than a province, you'll have to spend over $10. To make it worth more than a colony, you'll have to spend over $14. It's not really worth trying to match either a province or a colony, but if you have an absurd amount of money laying around, it might just be worth it.

The colossus mat is to prevent players from just remodeling their colossus into a higher value card without losing the VP they gained.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2021, 02:52:25 pm »
0

And I haven't seen people get confused about Gatekeeper or complain about its wording.
Another poster misread the card, hence my suggestion to change the wording slightly (it is not as if official cards do not get wording changes or are always the perfect benchmark for clarity).

It is, as I already pointed out, a fairly trivial matter. The Project being far too expensive (it is a $4 or a $5) is not.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2021, 02:59:59 pm »
0

Master
Action $7

Choose 2: +2 Cards; +2 Actions; +2 Buys; +$2; gain 2 Silvers or trash 2 cards from your hand.
The choices must be different.



I found this challenge harder than it first appears. It seems high powered concepts are more likely to have issues when you start thinking through the implications of them. I had a few ideas that I scrapped when trying to think them through. As a result I decided to go back to basics and go for a high powered member of the Pawn/Steward family.

I don't know if this is intentional, but there seems to be a theme of super pricey cards (Prince, KC, Expand, Forge -- I think also the 6$s though there I'm not sure) not working by themselves. They're all terminals, for one. Your card seems very similar to a certain price card
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xyz123

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2021, 03:43:39 pm »
0

Master
Action $7

Choose 2: +2 Cards; +2 Actions; +2 Buys; +$2; gain 2 Silvers or trash 2 cards from your hand.
The choices must be different.



I found this challenge harder than it first appears. It seems high powered concepts are more likely to have issues when you start thinking through the implications of them. I had a few ideas that I scrapped when trying to think them through. As a result I decided to go back to basics and go for a high powered member of the Pawn/Steward family.

I don't know if this is intentional, but there seems to be a theme of super pricey cards (Prince, KC, Expand, Forge -- I think also the 6$s though there I'm not sure) not working by themselves. They're all terminals, for one. Your card seems very similar to a certain price card

Yes, I that did occur to me as I was designing it. I don't see that as a problem though. Lots of cards are variations of each other.
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2021, 10:04:40 pm »
+1



Quote
Coronation Site - $7
Action - Victory
Reveal your hand. If you have no Action cards in hand, +2 Cards and +1 Action. Otherwise, play an Action card from your hand twice.
-
2VP

A Throne Room that "downgrades" to a Laboratory if you have no actions in Hand. A couple VP are added for flavor and to justify the cost. As an expensive Great Hall, I think this is appealing enough. I also think it is different enough from Nobles to justify the design. Feedback is appreciated.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 10:07:20 pm by Xen3k »
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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2021, 03:41:37 pm »
+4


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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2021, 01:08:31 pm »
0

Entries will be closed in 24 hours' time.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2021, 01:32:32 pm »
0

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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2021, 11:01:11 am »
+4

My Submission:



Quote from: Charge
CHARGE
ACTION
Cost: $10
You may trash this and an Action card from your hand. If you trashed two cards, +30 Cards.
                     

My submission is Charge. A one-shot massive terminal drawer, it all but guarantees getting the cards you need, but absent some +Actions and/or +Buys, it is unlikely that you will be able to use all of those cards to their maximum potential.
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2021, 01:28:20 pm »
+3

Entries are now closed. I hope to post the results within the next day.
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2021, 01:12:28 pm »
+6

Results

Firstly, thank you all for your entries. This is only the second time I've had to do this, but it's been fun thinking about these cards and their relative merits/demerits. Feel free to disagree with any of the following.

Revitalize (JW)

Displace as a Project, roughly. This feels useful and fairly priced, and particularly nice with TFB cards.

Process (Mahowrath)

Another high-price gainer. I don’t like the fact that you can simply play this and gain a Province, as that feels too easy. Also, high-priced cards tend to be terminal, while this one isn’t. This might work better as a cheaper Night card.

Financier (kru5h)

Simple and useful for quick coins and/or buys. A fine card, if not particularly interesting.

Bureaucracy (NoMoreFun)

Bureaucrat becomes a Project! I don’t know if many decks really want that much Silver, as the gaining is not optional. It might be useful for defence or if there’s some good TFB present. Overall, it feels a bit niche.

Regenerate (Aquila)

Remodel’s bigger brother. This feels very powerful, even with the set aside limitation - it looks underpriced. I think it might work better if a limit was imposed on how many cards you can set aside.

Daemon (Timinou)

Some interesting effects here, but it feels as though this card is trying to do too much at once, in order to justify its price. Splitting it into two cards might work better, but then neither card would fit into the rules of this contest.

Queen’s Park (majiponi)

Another high-price gainer. Given that the card you gain costs the same as Queen’s Park itself, this feels rather pointless - why not just buy the card you gain in the first place?

Pirate Island (segura)

A very interesting Victory card. The cares-about-price-points in your deck is new, as is having an additional cost when gaining the card. I think the latter idea is something that would work well in the game as a whole, so this is a decent card, in my view. I guess there might be issues in terms of what “cost” means: does this include Debt and Potions costs, or is it limited to coins?

Armada (grep)

Gaining VP tokens if you can induce certain discards, while a new idea, feels wrong because it doesn’t bring the game any closer to an end. It also feels a bit too much like Sea Hag, in that you get no benefit yourself when playing it. The +4 Cards next turn is nice, but maybe that benefit could be split across the two turns.

Colosseum (AJL828)

Haggler as a Project! I like Haggler, so I’m pleased to see this concept. It looks useful in many Kingdoms with plenty of choice in terms of how you can make it work for your situation. It perhaps could be priced at $8, but it definitely can’t be lower than $7, so I’m prepared to let that slide. A good design!


King’s Isle (4est)

Another Victory card. This is effectively Duchy-plus with a nice effect on gain. With the right amount of skill, buying this at the right time can put you a long way towards winning. I like this idea a lot.

Landscaper (LibraryAdventurer)

Groundskeeper as a Reserve card. Again, this has a similar problem to Armada in that its VP token gains don’t advance the game in any way. I also feel that $7 is too much for a Reserve card, given that you likely won’t play it as often as you would an Action card.

Oil Refinery (The Alchemist)

A large Pawn, with the ability to transfer that ability to further cards you play this turn. I like the ability to choose the same option multiple times if needed. That being said, I’m not sure that’s enough to justify a $7 price point - it feels more like a $6 to me.

Border Wall (spineflu)

Auto-exile anything you don’t want in your deck at an escalating cost. This is definitely better than the original version, as you’d only get to do this a few times when you really want to (Bounty Hunter has a similar problem). Given the escalating cost of discarding, I’m not sure if $7 is the right price for this - $6 might work better, but it’s hard to tell without playtesting.

Master (xyz123)

A more powerful Steward. This feels simple yet useful, and the flexibility merits the price tag it has. You can do many things with Master, so there is a fair bit of skill involved. This is a good entry.

Colossus (Firestix)

This feels like an attempt to weave Seven Wonders into Dominion! This is a very interesting idea. You basically need to have more than one Colossus in your deck, with multiple overpays, in order to get the overpay bonus. I think the number themselves need some tweaking, since it doesn’t look to compare that well with Province, but I applaud the idea.

Coronation Site (Xen3k)

An interesting Laboratory/Throne Room fusion, with a few VPs thrown in for good measure. This feels a bit like an Intrigue outtake, with its similarities to Nobles. The price point feels valid for what it is, but it still gives you options - it would work in many kinds of decks. I like this idea.

Volume Discount (spheremonk)

A bigger version of Workshop. Feels nice and useful, although I’m not sure how useful you’d find it once you have a deck capable of producing $9+.

Charge (emtzalex)

Eat your heart out, Madman! The drawer to end all drawers, this essentially draws your entire deck if you can trigger it. It’s hard to tell if this is balanced - the numbers might need tweaking. Is $10 really worth paying for a one-shot, even for such a powerful effect? It’s a big opportunity cost and requires a lot of support to set up.


Runners-up
Pirate Island by segura
King's Isle by 4est
Coronation Site by Xen3k

Winner
Colosseum by AJL828
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AJL828

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2021, 12:29:30 am »
+2

:o thank you mandioca! I’m glad you enjoyed my submission!

I should hopefully have a new contest idea ready and posted in about 12 hours or so.
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #135: Go Big or Go Home!
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2021, 12:40:04 am »
0

Revitalize (JW)

Displace as a Project, roughly. This feels useful and fairly priced, and particularly nice with TFB cards.

I think you meant Transmogrify, not Displace. Permanent Transmogrify was certainly my inspiration. Edit: by "TFB" cards I believe you mean cards that give a benefit when they are trashed. Those are certainly great targets for it.

Revitalize
$7 - Project
At the start of your turn, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a differently-named card to your hand that costs equal to or less than it.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 01:48:11 pm by JW »
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