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[gambit05]

Dear all,

Your feedback and discussion about the format/use of terms is amazing.

@LibraryAdventurer and Timinou: I will postpone for now the discussion about any improvement of Observatory, though that is of course an important thing to do.
@silverspawn: Neat idea using "Equip". Edit: I forgot to acknowledge spineflu here who suggested the term earlier.

In general, I will not answer any specific questions right now, for example scolapasta's question about set aside/pile. I think the best way to continue is when I present some other Equipment cards. In this way you will get a better idea in which directions I intend to go. Originally, I wanted to present the cards in small portions, but I think it is better now to show you more cards at once, including also one of the sets that use the Cabinet mat. The cards will probably still have the term "take", but just ignore it for the moment and first try to get a broader picture. After you have seen the next set of cards (I plan to show 3 different sets), we can all discuss the best way for using "take" vs "gain" or vs something else; "set aside" vs "separate piles" etc. I will post the new cards in about 2 hours or so (I have to do something else before). Stay calm!

Many thanks to all of you! Looking forward to the next round.

[GendoIkari]

My point is extremely theoretical, but I hope it illustrates nonetheless why set aside would not be a natural way to implement this:
For example with Gardens, Quiver would count at the end of the game no matter what you did, i.e. it is already yours but in „set aside nirvana“. This is pretty weird. It is as if in Cemetery games, ignoring the existence of Exorcist for the sake of the argument, Ghost were already yours but set aside.

Yeah, I don't have a strong opinion on "take" vs "gain" or "more rules on the cards" vs "a new card-shaped thing", but I do think that declaring that a card is "yours" simply because the Kingdom has another specific card in it feels very weird, and I don't think anyone would naturally think that it works that way. Cards become "yours" through a very specific set of things, including everything in your starting deck. For a card to be "yours" even though it wasn't in your starting deck, and you never gained it or exchanged for it or interacted with it in any way at all, is very unintuitive.

Just reading the cards themselves, as well as the overview rules for equipment, it doesn't seem like equipment would act any differently than Spoils or Wishes or Horses; other than being limited to working with 1 specific Kingdom card, like Bat or Prizes.

[gambit05]

Part 2

Lady Godiva/Clothes
I have presented Lady Godiva without Equipment in a previous thread about cards dealing with Debt. Later I decided that it is more interesting to separate the on-buy cost change (allowing to take 1 Debt instead of $1) from the distribution of Debt token on Supply piles (“taxing”). The latter function is now on the Equipment card Clothes. Doing it this way avoids excessive “taxing” of Supply piles as this feature is available only on a single card per player.

Likewise the first two pairs, Bowman/Quiver and Observatory/Telescope, Lady Godiva and Clothes can work independently of each other, though Lady Godiva guarantees a permanent source of Debt tokens for Clothes. Here, the entrance conditions for Clothes is “taking 1 Debt at the start of a player’s turn.” This means that a player has to invest a bit if they want Clothes and that a Debt token is in principle already available for “taxing” Supply piles.
 

Lady Godiva $3 – Action Equipment: Clothes +$2 ----------------------------------- While you have this in play, when you buy a card, you       may take 1 Debt to pay $1 less        for it.

Clothes $0 – Action - Equipment +1 Card +1 Action You may add 1 of your Debt to a Supply pile. When a player buys a card, they take the Debt from its pile. --------------------------------- At the start of your turn, you may take 1 Debt to take this (once per game).

   



Dragoon/King's Letter
In contrast to the previous examples, where Equipment cards could operate independently of their respective Kingdom cards, here is now a pair of cards, where the Equipment card, King’s Letter, depends on the associated Kingdom card, Dragoon. This means that when a player gains their first Dragoon, their King’s Letter enters the game by putting it into the discard. The only option here to play without the Equipment card is to not gain any Dragoon. I have put the instructions for when the set-aside King’s Letter enters the game on the Dragoon card. The reason is that gaining Dragoon triggers this event in contrast to the other pairs of Kingdom card/Equipment card (as shown so far), where the Equipment card could enter the game independently of its associated Kingdom card.

Dragoon is an Attack card whose Attack is only triggered when a low cost card is discarded from the deck. Otherwise, there is no Attack. Of course standard Reaction cards like Moat block any potential Attack card when played, i.e. before an actual attack occurs. If the Attack is activated, opponents gain a Ruins (those without Moat etc.). If an opponent has a King’s Letter in play, they can trash the Ruins. However, the attacking player gains one King’s Letter from each other player with King’s Letters in play. If an attacked player has more than one King’s Letter in play, they loose only one of them. If a King’s Letter manages to survive the round in the field, respective player is rewarded with 2 VP tokens at the start of their next turn.

Dragoon $4 – Action – Attack – Looter Equipment: King’s Letter Discard the top card of your deck. If it costs $3 or less, each other player gains a Ruins.       Otherwise, +2 Actions and +$2.      -------------------------------- Once per game: When you gain this, take your King’s Letter.

King’s Letter $0 – Night – Duration – Equipment While you have this in play, when another player’s Dragoon causes you to gain a Ruins, you may trash it and they gain a King’s Letter you have in play.   At the start of your next turn, if you still have this in play, +2 VP.

Cabinet mat
Some Equipment cards are put on the Cabinet mat similar to Reserve cards that are put on the Tavern mat. Each player has their own Cabinet mat. The big difference to the Tavern mat is that the Equipment cards do their duty on the mat. There may be other possibilities, but I haven’t designed any Equipment-Cabinet cards that act differently (yet). A common feature of the Equipment cards that finally go to the Cabinet is that they have a direct dependency on their specific Kingdom card, similar to Dragoons/King’s Letter shown above. Again, there is enough design space to also do Equipment-Cabinet cards that are not directly dependent on a specific Kingdom card, and again I haven’t done any (yet). Most Equipment cards that are put to the Cabinet, stay there for the rest of the game.
I have a few Equipment cards that can leave the Cabinet mat, but I won’t show them today. If it is relevant for the discussion: They are usually discarded and have to be played again and to be put again on the Cabinet mat.

In addition to the light blue labeling of all Equipment cards, I have labelled the Equipment-Cabinet cards with a light tan background of their text field, in reminiscence to Reserve cards.

Kingsman and the associated Equipment cards Harp, Shield, Sword and Trumpet.
The set-aside Equipment cards enter the game though playing Kingsman. If a player decides to not gain and play Kingsman, they will not get any associated Equipment cards into the game. When a player plays their first Kingsman, they get a lonely +1 Action and can freely pick one of the four associated Equipment cards. Each player can decide on their own which of them enters the game first, second and so on. As per default, the chosen Equipment card goes to the discard pile, the others are still set aside. Once such an Equipment card is played, it is put on the Cabinet mat. Then when Kingsman is played consecutively during in the game, it gets the +1 Action from itself and then follows the instructions of all associated Equipment cards that are on the Cabinet mat. If there are still Kingsman’s Equipment cards set aside, another one is chosen to be put into the discard pile.
The idea is basically that the Kingsman cards are up-graded over time via putting the associated Equipment cards on the Cabinet. A level 1 Kingsman gives a mere +1 Action, a fully up-graded Kingsman is stronger than a Grand Market.

Kingsman $4 – Action Equipment: Harp, Shield, Sword, Trumpet +1 Action Follow the instructions of the Kingsman’s Equipment cards on your Cabinet mat. Take one of your set-aside Kingsman’s Equipment cards.

Harp $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment Put this on your Cabinet mat. -----------------------------          If this is on your Cabinet mat,          when you play a Kingsman, +1 Buy.

Shield $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment Put this on your Cabinet mat. -----------------------------          If this is on your Cabinet mat,          when you play a Kingsman, +$2.

Sword $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment Put this on your Cabinet mat. -----------------------------          If this is on your Cabinet mat,          when you play a Kingsman, +1 Action.

Trumpet $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment Put this on your Cabinet mat. -----------------------------          If this is on your Cabinet mat,          when you play a Kingsman, +1 Card.

[GendoIkari]

Something I didn't think about until now... you can take the equipment without ever buying / gaining the card that it's associated with, right? Or at least you can when the condition is on the equipment itself and not on the card? That seems weird... Use Clothes in a game (with debt-cost cards) even if you don't ever want Lady Godiva. Makes it feel like Clothes is a completely separate thing that has no reason to be an equipment for Godiva. Would it work to always have the "take" be something you can do when playing the Kingdom card?

[silverspawn]

Something I didn't think about until now... you can take the equipment without ever buying / gaining the card that it's associated with, right? Or at least you can when the condition is on the equipment itself and not on the card? That seems weird... Use Clothes in a game (with debt-cost cards) even if you don't ever want Lady Godiva. Makes it feel like Clothes is a completely separate thing that has no reason to be an equipment for Godiva. Would it work to always have the "take" be something you can do when playing the Kingdom card?

Isn't it similar to how you can use the heirloom without ever using the associated Action card?

[GendoIkari]

Something I didn't think about until now... you can take the equipment without ever buying / gaining the card that it's associated with, right? Or at least you can when the condition is on the equipment itself and not on the card? That seems weird... Use Clothes in a game (with debt-cost cards) even if you don't ever want Lady Godiva. Makes it feel like Clothes is a completely separate thing that has no reason to be an equipment for Godiva. Would it work to always have the "take" be something you can do when playing the Kingdom card?

Isn't it similar to how you can use the heirloom without ever using the associated Action card?

I actually thought of that. The only real difference is that it's not a choice whether to use the heirloom or not; it just goes in your starting deck. But still, that might be enough of an example to make my objection moot, not sure. I just know that the equipments where you get one by playing the associated card feel more natural to me.

[Xen3k]

Ok, a few more thoughts after looking over the new cards.

- I really like that you start with Equipment as part of your deck, but not in your deck. This is something not represented elsewhere in Dominion. There is some room there to have a piece of equipment augment the game until you take it. An equipment that penalizes you until it is take it would be like a reverse Works that can have a requirement other than coins. Same with an Equipment that benefits you but is taken as soon as certain criteria are met.

- I completely understand your aversion to multiple Mats, my game group actually only uses the Exile Mats and the Trade Route Mat. We have specific tokens for Coffers/Villagers and use that single Mat for Exile, Tavern, and Island. I think having a dedicated Mat to hold the Equipment before you take them could be useful for wording on cards. The Cabinet Mat could be split in half, since it is already being introduced. It may not matter too much, and I am sure whatever you do go with will work fine, but having a dedicated named zone (Mat) is better in my opinion than set aside in the aether.

- Dragoon/King's Letter looks wild. I really have no idea how it will play out, but want to try it. Very interesting concept for an attack and I like the stealing/moat effect. I do think if the Equipment started on a Mat that it could not be sent back to you could do away with the Once Per Game bit and just have it say "Take your King's Letter from your (name) Mat".

- Kingsman is a very cool upgrading Action. Not sure if too good, but probably not as the Equipment do eat an Action when played. The one concern I have is with the term Kingsman's Equipment. I understand what it is referring to, but I am not sure how much that may confuse the average player. You could always refer specifically to the Equipment names. Also, the conditional activation of the below line text on the Equipment kinda makes the first paragraph on Kingsman redundant. For Kingsman I really like the concept and design, it is just that there a few precedents that would be set with this design that I am unsure about. I think the Equipment having the triggered effect when a Kingman is played should be enough. Grouping the equipment under "Kingsman's Equipment should be fine if the rules for Equipment detail that the Equipment associated with a card is that cards Equipment, like Cursed Mirror is Cemetery's Heirloom.

Over all I really like these cards. I think you should keep Equipment as already owned (part of your deck, if not in it) and keep using take (or a Keyword of some kind). Using Gain does interact with more mechanics, but could also collide in ways you do not want. I think a Mat for Equipment to start on would be nice, but it is your design. Please forgive the repeated suggestion of a Mat, lol. Great work! I look forward to the subsequent designs.

[segura]

I like Kingsman. This idea is often implemented via the Adventure tokens but the slowing down with the one shots is really neat.

[gambit05]

Something I didn't think about until now... you can take the equipment without ever buying / gaining the card that it's associated with, right? Or at least you can when the condition is on the equipment itself and not on the card?¹ That seems weird... Use Clothes in a game (with debt-cost cards) even if you don't ever want Lady Godiva. Makes it feel like Clothes is a completely separate thing that has no reason to be an equipment for Godiva.² Would it work to always have the "take" be something you can do when playing the Kingdom card?³

Isn't it similar to how you can use the heirloom without ever using the associated Action card?

I actually thought of that. The only real difference is that it's not a choice whether to use the heirloom or not; it just goes in your starting deck. But still, that might be enough of an example to make my objection moot, not sure. I just know that the equipments where you get one by playing the associated card feel more natural to me.

¹Yes, among the cards I’ve presented so far you can do that for Telescope (associated Kingdom card is Observatory), Quiver (Bowman) and Clothes (Lady Godiva). You can’t do it for King’s Letters (Dragoon) nor for any of the 4 Equipment cards associated with Kingsman.

It is the same with the Heirlooms. silverspawn already gave a short but effective answer.

Just a few more cents to this: I see it rather as a strength of the concept that you can play with an Equipment card without the need to gain the respective Kingdom card and vice versa. I try to functionally connect them, but I also have the intention that they can in principle act independently of each other. In addition, given players more freedom of choice whether they want to use a certain Kingdom card, the respective Equipment card or both or none of them is in my opinion a good thing without making it overly complicated. It can create a lot of interesting micro decisions.

²There are not too many official Debt cost cards in the game. If one or more would be around together with Lady Godiva/Clothes, fine I would say. It changes the power level of Clothes and maybe the overall strategy. I see that as a good thing offering a broader spectrum of strategies and I don’t think Clothes would be broken because of the presence of some Debt cost cards. In the case that Clothes would exist without Lady Godiva, it would be almost dead in the majority of Kingdoms.

³Yes, it would work to always have the restriction to “take” Equipment cards when respective Kingdom cards are played (or gained), but it would limit the possibilities for designing certain card pairs/sets, where the intention is the semi-independency (likewise Heirlooms) as I have tried to explain above. I don't see a good reason why should I restrict myself design-wise and exclude those.

[gambit05]

Ok, a few more thoughts after looking over the new cards.

- I really like that you start with Equipment as part of your deck, but not in your deck. This is something not represented elsewhere in Dominion. There is some room there to have a piece of equipment augment the game until you take it. An equipment that penalizes you until it is take it would be like a reverse Works that can have a requirement other than coins. Same with an Equipment that benefits you but is taken as soon as certain criteria are met.

- I completely understand your aversion to multiple Mats, my game group actually only uses the Exile Mats and the Trade Route Mat. We have specific tokens for Coffers/Villagers and use that single Mat for Exile, Tavern, and Island. I think having a dedicated Mat to hold the Equipment before you take them could be useful for wording on cards. The Cabinet Mat could be split in half, since it is already being introduced. It may not matter too much, and I am sure whatever you do go with will work fine, but having a dedicated named zone (Mat) is better in my opinion than set aside in the aether.

- Dragoon/King's Letter looks wild. I really have no idea how it will play out, but want to try it. Very interesting concept for an attack and I like the stealing/moat effect. I do think if the Equipment started on a Mat that it could not be sent back to you could do away with the Once Per Game bit and just have it say "Take your King's Letter from your (name) Mat".

- Kingsman is a very cool upgrading Action. Not sure if too good, but probably not as the Equipment do eat an Action when played. The one concern I have is with the term Kingsman's Equipment. I understand what it is referring to, but I am not sure how much that may confuse the average player. You could always refer specifically to the Equipment names. Also, the conditional activation of the below line text on the Equipment kinda makes the first paragraph on Kingsman redundant. For Kingsman I really like the concept and design, it is just that there a few precedents that would be set with this design that I am unsure about. I think the Equipment having the triggered effect when a Kingman is played should be enough. Grouping the equipment under "Kingsman's Equipment should be fine if the rules for Equipment detail that the Equipment associated with a card is that cards Equipment, like Cursed Mirror is Cemetery's Heirloom.

Over all I really like these cards. I think you should keep Equipment as already owned (part of your deck, if not in it) and keep using take (or a Keyword of some kind). Using Gain does interact with more mechanics, but could also collide in ways you do not want. I think a Mat for Equipment to start on would be nice, but it is your design. Please forgive the repeated suggestion of a Mat, lol. Great work! I look forward to the subsequent designs.

Mats
At the moment I am open to any ideas and suggestions. I decide later with your (plural) help when (hopefully) more input comes in.

Dragoon
I don’t have a clue either how that will turn out. It is one of the newest Equipment type card pair. I am also looking forward to play with them.

Kingsman
I have played a few times with a totally overpowered prototype of it (with some additional effects from Equipment cards). Aside of that I can say that it is a relative simple mechanic and it is fun to play with. The presented version is the one I will hopefully play with soon. The idea is that Kingsman is quite expensive at the beginning (for just +1 Action) and that the up-grading progress is slow. With the overpowered prototype, we rarely got it fully upgraded or if so it was too late to have any significant impact. So, I hope this version plays similar in that respect, but being a bit less dominating.

There should be no problem with the grouping of the Equipment cards belonging to the same Kingdom card. The individual Equipment cards are all listed/specified directly below the text of the Kingdom card (here Kingsman) on the light blue banner.

Summary
Your comments are again very helpful and constructive. Many thanks!

[silverspawn]

gambit, have you decided that take (once per game) is going to be the wording?

[gambit05]

gambit, have you decided that take (once per game) is going to be the wording?

I want to wait a bit longer to see what others think about the terminology for Equipment cards now that I have presented more of them.

After the first two card pairs, I got such a diverse feedback about what to do and what not, it was overwhelming.
After presenting more Equipment cards, now maybe people are overwhelmed?

I don’t know what the relative silence means. Do people think about the concept and take their time for an answer? Or, do they think enough has been said, or did they lost interest and moved on?

Is there a specific reason why you are asking?

[silverspawn]

I don’t know what the relative silence means. Do people think about the concept and take their time for an answer? Or, do they think enough has been said, or did they lost interest and moved on?

Variance/reversion to the mean. Don't overinterpret.

Is there a specific reason why you are asking?

*stares expressionless into space for a few seconds*

... yes.

[gambit05]

I don’t know what the relative silence means. Do people think about the concept and take their time for an answer? Or, do they think enough has been said, or did they lost interest and moved on?

Variance/reversion to the mean. Don't overinterpret.

I don't. Just tried to explain my own silence at the moment.

Is there a specific reason why you are asking?

*stares expressionless into space for a few seconds*

... yes.

*stares amazed in the same general direction for a few minutes*

Would you please be so kind and enlighten me?

[spineflu]

gambit, have you decided that take (once per game) is going to be the wording?

After the first two card pairs, I got such a diverse feedback about what to do and what not, it was overwhelming.
After presenting more Equipment cards, now maybe people are overwhelmed?

I don’t know what the relative silence means. Do people think about the concept and take their time for an answer? Or, do they think enough has been said, or did they lost interest and moved on?

or did people make their suggestions, you made some minor changes, and said, "wait for the rest of the cards" and now they're doing just that because why put effort into a reply when you're just going to be told "no you dont have the full picture"

[gambit05]

gambit, have you decided that take (once per game) is going to be the wording?

After the first two card pairs, I got such a diverse feedback about what to do and what not, it was overwhelming.
After presenting more Equipment cards, now maybe people are overwhelmed?

I don’t know what the relative silence means. Do people think about the concept and take their time for an answer? Or, do they think enough has been said, or did they lost interest and moved on?

or did people make their suggestions, you made some minor changes, and said, "wait for the rest of the cards" and now they're doing just that because why put effort into a reply when you're just going to be told "no you dont have the full picture"

Is that another possibility? I haven't thought about that. I thought it was clear that I want to present another 3 sets of Equipment cards all at once (instead of smaller portions) and that those cards presented in part 2 should give a good picture about the Equipment concept. I mentioned in that post a few other things that can be done, which however I haven't done, with one exception that is an Equipment card that can leave the Cabinet mat.

Do you think it is better to show more cards first?

[silverspawn]

Would you please be so kind and enlighten me?

I was considering an equipment theme in case I won the WCD :-). But I didn't, so no rush.

[gambit05]

Would you please be so kind and enlighten me?

I was considering an equipment theme in case I won the WCD :-). But I didn't, so no rush.

What a pity. That would have been fun. And if it is just to see how people deal with the terminology.

I like your card but I think it is a bit too strong, even without the conversion part.

[gambit05]

Part 3

Here are now the remaining Equipment cards I’d like to show you, except one. That one also has Moral as a concept, together with 2 other cards unrelated to Equipment. Those cards I’d like to present separately as I don’t want to introduce too many things at once. 

I have a couple of more ideas for Equipment cards. However, those I show here are already more than I would like to include in my set. With my limited experience, I’ve found that it is nice and fun to have a few of them in a game, but when too many are around at once, it can become confusing and can affect the game flow.

If you feel you would like to comment on the terminology, please don’t wait for more cards.
Equally important for me is if you could give feedback on the individual cards.

Now to the cards:

Tinker $2* – Action Equipment: Jug, Kettle, Pot +1 Action Follow the instructions of the Tinker’s    Equipment cards on your Cabinet mat.    Take one of your set-aside Tinker’s Equipment cards. ------------------------------ This costs $1 more per Tinker’s Equipment card on your Cabinet mat.

Jug     $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment    Put this on your Cabinet mat. ------------------------------ If this is on your Cabinet mat, when you play a Tinker, +1 Card.

Kettle      $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment    +1 Action Put this on your Cabinet mat. ------------------------------ If this is on your Cabinet mat, when you play a Tinker, gain a Cart and discard this at the start of Clean-up.

Pot     $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment    Put this on your Cabinet mat. ------------------------------ If this is on your Cabinet mat, when you play a Tinker, +1 Buy and +$1.

Tinker and the associated Equipment cards Jug, Kettle, Pot
This has the same basic principle as Kingsman, i.e. a gradual up-grading of a Kingdom card through getting its Equipment cards on the Cabinet mat.
However, there are some notable differences:
- Tinker starts as a cheap $2 cost card.
- The cost of Tinker changes in dependency of the number of Tinker’s Equipment cards on the Cabinet mat.
- The Equipment card Kettle leaves the Cabinet when used by Tinkers. When played again, it is put back to the Cabinet.

When a Tinker follows the instructions of Kettle, the player gains a Cart, a non-Supply card I’ve introduced in another thread.
Since discarding of Kettle from the Cabinet occurs in the Clean-up phase, playing multiple Tinkers before that in the same turn gives multiple Carts.

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Truth $4 – Action Equipment: Globe, Lyre, Palette +1 Action     Look at the top 3 cards of your deck.    Choose one: Put them back in any order; or follow the instructions of one of the Truth’s Equipment cards on your Cabinet mat. Take one of your set-aside Truth’s Equipment cards.

Globe     $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment    Put this on your Cabinet mat. ------------------------------ If this is on your Cabinet mat, when you play a Truth and you choose this:   Trash any number of the 3 cards and put the rest back in any order.

Lyre      $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment    Put this on your Cabinet mat. ------------------------------ If this is on your Cabinet mat, when you play a Truth and you choose this:   Discard the 3 cards, then +1 Card and +1 Buy.

Palette     $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment    Put this on your Cabinet mat. ------------------------------ If this is on your Cabinet mat, when you play a Truth and you choose this:   Put one of the 3 cards into your hand and discard the rest.

Truth and the associated Equipment cards Globe, Lyre, Palette
Yet another Kingdom card with several associated Equipment cards that go to the Cabinet. The difference to the others is that Truth can only play one of its Equipment cards. Thus, up-grading of Truth is done by increasing the choices, i.e. giving it more flexibility.
Truth starts as a non-terminal deck inspection card allowing rearrangement of the top 3 cards of the deck. The Equipment cards then give additional choices such as trashing cards or putting one of them into hand. I am not sure whether the trashing effect of Globe is too strong and should be reduced to just one card. On the other hand, it takes some time until it’s available.

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Camp $3 - Action Equipment: Tent +1 Card +1 Action           Follow the instructions of a            Tent on your Cabinet mat. Once per game: Take your set-aside Tent.

Tent      $0 – Action – Cabinet - Equipment    +1 Action You may put this on your Cabinet mat. If you don’t: +$1 for each Camp you have in play. ------------------------------ If this is on your Cabinet mat, when you play a Camp, +1 Card and discard this at the start of Clean-up.

Camp/Tent
Another example of an Equipment card, Tent, that strictly depends on the associated Kingdom card, Camp, i.e. a player not going for Camp will not get Tent into the game.

Tent can be put on the Cabinet, but it doesn’t have to. On the Cabinet, it transforms for one turn each subsequently played Camp to a Lab, and is then discarded from the mat. This does not have to be the same turn the Tent has been put on the mat, as it will stay there until a Camp is played. If played, but not moved to the Cabinet, Tent transforms each Camp that is already in play to a Peddler. If a Camp is played and a Tent is neither on the Cabinet mat nor played later in the same turn, it is just a cantrip.

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Pawnshop $4 – Action Equipment: Balance For each Coin token on the Pawnshop pile choose one:    +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1.    The choices must be different. ------------------------------ Once per game: When you gain this, take Balance to your hand.

Balance       $0 - Action – Night - Equipment      Add a Coin token to the Pawnshop pile. If there are 5 tokens on it, remove 2 and if it’s your Action phase, move 1 of them to your Coffers mat.

Pawnshop/Balance
Again a pair of cards with an Equipment card, Balance, strictly dependent on its Kingdom card, Pawnshop. No Cabinet involved here.
Pawnshop is another example of a Market/Peddler variant that improves over time, here by being powered up by Balance. The differences to the other cards with a similar mechanic (Kingsman, Tinker) are:
- The power level is controlled by coin tokens (via Balance).
- The coin tokens are placed on the Pawnshop pile and thus are shared by the players.
- Tokens can be removed, temporarily decreasing the power level of Pawnshop.

Balance can be played during the Action or Night phase. If tokens are removed, the player gets one as a Coffers, if Balance was played during the Action phase.

[gambit05]

I don’t know what you guys/gals think about the need to have Equipment cards in piles, after I showed you more of them, but in the meantime I thought about the term “take” versus alternative terms and also about the “set aside” status and its consequences and came up with the idea to use “obtain” instead of “take” and “standby” instead of “set aside”.

A typical instruction of a Kingdom card with several Equipment cards (e.g. Kingsman) would be:

Obtain one of your standby Kingsman’s Equipment cards.

On single Equipment cards where it is clear that “obtaining” them can happen only once (example Quiver) the text would be:

When you have exactly 3 Action cards in play, you may obtain this.

Would that be clear with respect to the process and would the English be acceptable?

Any objections to use these new keywords? At least, having Equipment cards is a new mechanic, like Reserve was a new mechanic once, which introduced “call” for a new mechanic.

[Xen3k]

I am a big fan of Standby. Set aside is used in multiple cards already and is usually a temporary thing. This would be a good change and would do away all of my suggestions for a mat.

I am indifferent to Obtain, but only because I had no issue with Take. Taking a card in Standby could be ruled to go to the discard by default in the rules for Standby. However, if it makes more sense to have a keyword like Obtain to have it make sense, Obtain is a good one.

[Timinou]

Why not just use "Equip" instead of "Obtain"?  Not a big deal, but I feel it would be more intuitive if you are adding new terminology.

[gambit05]

I am a big fan of Standby. Set aside is used in multiple cards already and is usually a temporary thing. This would be a good change and would do away all of my suggestions for a mat.

I am indifferent to Obtain, but only because I had no issue with Take. Taking a card in Standby could be ruled to go to the discard by default in the rules for Standby. However, if it makes more sense to have a keyword like Obtain to have it make sense, Obtain is a good one.

Why not just use "Equip" instead of "Obtain"?  Not a big deal, but I feel it would be more intuitive if you are adding new terminology.

Equip would be of course ideal. What about accurate English? Can you equip an Equipment?:

Equip one of your standby Kingsman’s Equipment cards.

When you have exactly 3 Action cards in play, you may equip this.

You equip yourself with the Equipment, which would be: Equip yourself with one of your...

My question is would the first version be okay? Or what about this:

Equip with one of your standby Kingsman’s Equipment cards.

When you have exactly 3 Action cards in play, you may equip with this.

Edit: I think using a new term like "equip" or "obtain" allows also to skip the "standby" in the text of Kingdom cards.
The two examples mentioned above (unrelated to each other) would look like this:



Could you give any feedback on this about English and terminology?

[Timinou]

I don't know if it is proper English or not, but don't some video games use "equip" + "object" e.g. "equip a weapon" or "equip an item"?  "Equip yourself with X" does sound better though.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Grammatically, saying "equip this" works fine. You don't need "with".
OTOH, I preferred "take" because "equip" makes it sound like it's ready to use immediately when it isn't (at least not in the case of cabinet cards: you don't get the effect of the equipment card until after you draw and play it). 

I don't like the concept of Kingsman/Tinker/Truth because for the effect of playing one card, you need to refer to three or four other cards in addition to the one you played. It's too much.

I like Camp & Tent, although I think it could be worded more simply.
Instead of "follow the instructions...", Camp could say "If you have a Tent on your cabinet mat, +1 Card and discard the Tent at the start of clean-up."
Pawnshop and Balance look good to me too.